That image has been shared by Sony in a presentation somewhere in China. It shows how Sony sees the “equivalence” between the E and A-mount cameras. Not all makes a lot of sense to me like:
A7 below the other A7 cameras
or A7 equivalent to A77II.
Anyway as you see the A-mount low-end segment misses some of the equivalent E-mount cameras. And there is till room on top for PRO cameras…tiny spot left out for the A9? 🙂
173 Responses
What Is This? ‘:I So at the point at the top must be the fully Modular Medium Format SR1 for masters like me O.O Trolls must be at the marshy end of the scale with their phone cameras XD
Well we should find out in less than 4 weeks time if there will be an A9
There is only so much room on top. Everything old or not selling well has to be pushed down to make room in the “puramid”. 🙂
Also notice that there are only two classifications: “Hobbyists” and “Families and Casual Shooters”.
Someday they will bring out a (radio) wireless flash to the “Alpha” mount instead of the NFC and WiFi playstation stuff. From that day forward, it will be serious stuff.
A-mount is dead.
That’s a triangle!
Uh..no, it’s a cube. An Image cube!
Left off the A3000 and A3500
Poor little A3000 seems to have disappeared…
A7R must be very much superior to the A5100, even when it comes to video, right?!
… A7II higher level than A7 doesn’t make sense…
Of course the A7ii has to be higher, it’s the replacement model for the A7, you moron.
If you design 2 cameras, an entry level DSLR and a professional DSLR, namely a 550d and a 5d Mark 3, and then you decide to update the entry level DSLR from a 550d to a 600d, does the target demographic change? Are you still aiming to please the hobbyist or entry level market? Does your business model change?
Surely the hobbyist 660d doesn’t suddenly become a professional DSLR simply because it’s the latest model? Why would the target demographic change?
The pyramid states the a7 is a hobbyist camera yet the a7 mk 2 sits above hobbyist. Like you said, it’s a replacement. From this statement we are to infer it’s targeted at the same demographic, is it not? Moron.
Typo, 600d not 660
IMO, the A7 will be dropped as soon as stocks run out.
The A7ii is the replacement model, that’s why Sony called it the A7ii.
If you don’t believe this, then your a Moron too.
Get a brain, stupid.
Straw man fallacy
You’re, not your
Errr, look at the RX100…
Moron.
Judging from his comment he misunderstood mine
No, a replacement model should be in the same target tier.
NO. The A7 II does not replace the A7, it DOES drop the A7 down to a lower tier though. Before the A7 II it ‘would’ have been on the same tier.
This is just a price pyramid. I am sure many pro use a6000 and many people use the a7 casually.
It’s a target market demographic pyramid according to the legends and not a price pyramid which is why it’s odd to see the target demographic change upon model replacement
Waaaaaa I don’t like the pyramid, waaaaaaaaa
I think the pyramid is more related to price equivalence, despite Sony’s intention to imply the cameras can be split into casual/hobbyist/enthusiast/pro etc.
like i said below…
hahahahahhaha
A6000 should be equivalent to a77mkII. (both focuses on speed and tracking).
Anyways, there is still plenty of space for more A-mount cameras and one E-mount. Sony still have to compete against 1DX/D4S (low light, speed and tracking, offer a 36Mpx A-mount to compete against the D810 and a new competitor for the D750. The a7mkII should be fine against D610. And there is space for a top tier mirrorless.
The D750-POS will be replaced within a few months, hopefully without the flare issues, cheap plastic body and a shutter designed for point and shoot camera.
I would love to see the same pyramid for lenses.
I bet you would love to sit on top of the pyramid and bounce up and down.
A7 and a77ii the same???
Very Confusing TBH. Both are different cams.
I find it ironic, having upgraded from an a77ii to an a7…
If it’s all one big happy system, and E-Mount is really an Alpha, then why don’t E-Mount camera’s allow the AF Illuminator to work when using LAEA-1 thru 4 lens adapters and A-Mount lenses? They don’t.
Discussion about it at Dyxum here:
http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/using-a-flash-with-the-laea4_topic110845_post1331778.html#1331778
Learn how to focus a camera and stop bellyaching.
How’s that going to fix Sony’s broken flash system?
The flash system is broken. It is probably the main thing I dont like about sony cameras.
for gods sake they gave us the 5 axis! please be happy already.
What’s that have to do with the broken flash system?
That shit makes me so mad that it does not work. They need to fix it asap.
The trolls are quiet about the diagram itself because they know i know something of such matters, having established the idea of economies of scale leading to ultimate quality and performance and users personal interests served and personal involvement scale for anything like a reasonable cost..of course i don’t JUST want every Sony lens…I’m not JUST greedy or foolish.for instance, you want a new personal 35mm cam: the ultimate; cost is no limitation.. much like you ask for, how much does it cost for JUST one of those, from design, through development to fruition and is it even any good? does it develop based upon trials of error or JUST in a bubble you create with your endless pool of funds? do you become a manufacturer or a business man primarily in making such a thing and no longer a photographer making his equipment with all your talk of markets you presently and thankfully know nothing about? well i present to you the Pyramid where above a certain point the process of your discrimination of route to best quality no longer reflects the interests of a camera user that you once were and only the mechanism that is profiting from the production of it and at cost to its usability, you want it all higher up? so do canonikon, that way you JUST feel like you get the dedicated exclusive option, but in fact you don’t know that isn’t what you really want anyway, all it does is lines their pockets and give you unuseable equipment with which nonone had any interest in the artistry of making work best for the photographer and resulting: the best photographic work from the equipment. nevermind the cost to him..’but if i were a billionaire’…yes, you would make a camera with no more interest about photography than the top of the chain in canonikon in JUST making money from fooling people with exclusivity and poor quality with high price to prove for it. Sony in many respects have made extremely good quality at an extremely reasonable price ..so you JUST have to talk nonsense about that simple fact don’t you.
You really need to get treatment for your mania, that’s four days now that you have been ranting hysterically. Are you taking your meds? If you have call your doctor and have him adjust your medication before you do something stupid.
We have a disagreement, no need to call it names troll
I’m serious, you need to check yourself.
You obviously don’t know of the
Myth of King Midas and his golden touch
Or the emperor’s new clothes
You are the emperor and you have no clothes. You’re a mental case.
I bucked the trend of Postmodernism a long time ago and you still haven’t got even close even as it has become ‘important’ 😀
You know that ultimately you will always lose unless you drag PM along somehow with you: but i already do by being its absurd mirror image XD
I am comfortable with this and it makes you somewhat uncomfortable.
Yes, just keep stringing together tired cliches and catch phrases and buzzwords while not making a bit of sense. You’re behavior is textbook bipolar disorder, get treated.
Am i making you uncomfortable? 🙂
We both know i can answer all you have, possibly with fireworks…
No, you’re making a fool of yourself.
hahaha scaredy cat
You couldn’t scare a kitten.
You are not a kitten but rather wearing a lions skin to look fierce or at least you think so…
Sorry, Im not a facilitator. Get help, seriously. Bye bye…
I am JUST your Sony equipment advocate..good luck 😉
Talk at him NOT to him. You are just feeding his attention
http://www.lazerhorse.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Lion-Owl.jpg
OwlLion that thinks its a
Basilisk XD
http://www.thezooooo.com/wp-content/uploads/owl-lion_-ZWART1-290×290.jpg
What Is It owl or Is It ghost?
You began your comment with” The trolls are quit”
What do you expect will result?
Was that English on Klingon?
Collect them all.
Agreed, in the end they will all JUST fit together into one giant camera robot that will demolish canikon, i’m pluralistic with lenses and focal lengths, why not cameras?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nihSuj0c4wg
I think what you are referring to is the Sony Vol-tron.
It all starts with ‘medium’ format i believe…
actually this…
Relax everyone! Sony know what they are doing…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG0L81EgK_E
this video is not relaxing me :p… what is this game? what’s the rule?
Sony, please do what’s right and give us a good flash system, teach your cameras to focus in low light, make them straightforward to operate and slap a FAT battery to drive them. Best of luck
batteries with better power are surely getting smaller all the time, i know, lets design cameras of the future with bigger battery compartments and to make the whole body bigger correspondingly 😀
I see no problem with carrying a few extra batteries if a long shoot is planned. Being use to changing rolls of film every 24-36 exposures, it’s a simple task to pop in a new battery which only takes a few seconds. Changing a roll of film takes a few minutes and takes care to make sure it’s threading properly. I guess when there isn’t much to complain about we start complaining about the littlest inconveniences.
Quite right. Take the battery compartment door off and you can then replace a battery in seconds.
I guess you’re not familiar with digital cameras, the door pops open with a single touch of the latch. Only a complete imbecile would take the door completely off.
Only a complete imbecile wouldn’t know that the door is removed to fit a battery grip to the A7’s. You want to cut down on time – then think laterally.
Agreed, but that’s a different scenario than the one being discussed. If you’re using a battery grip you would be replacing the batteries at the grip not the camera. Right?
Not really. An A77 user could assume the A7’s grip works in same way as the A77’s grip, i.e. you don’t remove the door.
Do you take the neck off of your guitar to change the strings?
I take my neck off to change my shirt.
Not in the same category so try and be smart it doesn’t suit you.PS. At least I don’t mind showing my real name.
Actually it’s an apt analogy, yet you find it preposterous. Taking a battery door off to change a battery is just as preposterous, unless you were just making a joke. If that’s the case I failed to see the humor.
Yes, batteries are the new film with Sony. Difference is I now get 400 shots per roll, I can live with that!
You are not only carrying spare camera batteries, but spare flash batteries, spare cards, lenses and other mods. The less weight and head ache the better.
Even with all the spare and extra body my bag is still a lot lighter then with the full Nikon of Canon gear. but that just might be the three missing flashes and tripods 😛
400 pops per charge and 3-4 hours of continuous use with SLT or Live View Designs a bit annoying don’t you think. Compare to full day (12 hours) or about 1400 shots on Canon 5Dmk3 with a single battery. I only carry one spare between 2 camera bodies for a full day gig and barely ever have to use it. With Sony I had 4 and regularly charged one at the shoot.
It’s true I now carry 5 batteries instead of 1 spare with the 5DIII or no spare when shooting Nikon D700. Then again I shoot a lot more sequences with the A7S.
A7S with grip solved my battery problem but yes good flash, it’s no joy for now. Have you ever tried the Mitros + on Sony? Waiting for one to test but it takes forever to get here.
a6000 could be placed equal to a77ii. also the full frame camera that the a7 is , is placed slightly lower than a77ii . how sony ?!
A77II is a much stronger pro body that you can easily hang big lenses on, the A6000 while a great performer is still a lightweight and not particularly sturdy camera.
You mean that it’s not possible to use big lenses on a A6000?
Will it break?
Have you ever used a large telephoto lens?
You answer a question with a question?
That’s nice…
Well the question seems rather stupid if you’re familiar with large lenses does it not?
In my humble opinion there’s no stupid questions but obviously there is really stupid answers…
Oh trust me, they both exist.
Never had an issue putting the 400mm on my a6000, are you telling you me you would hold it by the camera body and not the lens?
With A6000 and big lenses ( ex: Sigma 150-500), I’m using a (Tri)pod or a EQ3-2 astronomy mount but then its the lens which carries the camera 😀
Some professionals are now using the A6000 as their main camera for 95% of their work. I also use it with the 70-200mm for larger birds in flight. I agree that my 600mm would be a bit excessive. Having owned both, I place them equal. I also have the 7R.
As much as I like mirrorless, I cannot image _right now_ to use them exclusively. They are just too small for _me_ and handling is often awkward and flimsy (buttons too small or recessed, less direct controls, too many button presses until you reach your goal …). This is fine for a short period of time or on vacation, but handling the camera for hours requires good ergonomics and quick access to all functions, for _me_. The A7ii is just o.k. in that respect, the a6000 I find way too small. But I didn’t use the NX1, only tried in on Photokina. Could be an exception.
The shape of this pyramid hints that there is only room at the top for a single new high end camera. ….since A and E mount converge the hint would be a hybrid A E mount camera.
Of course that is just a logical interpretation of this illustration..and Sony rarely does anything logical.
There are no indications hybred is happenig..this is just an interpretation of the illustrstion, not a prediction.
Several baseless assumptions, all are SR-1.
There are no assumptions or rumors here …only an interpretation of the illustration which probable is no indication of future products.
Theonly baseless comment here is yours…but the again if you couldn’t critisize my comments you wouldn’thave anything to say would you?
That illustration was likely pick out of the trash bin. Garbage in garbage out, lets not jump to conclusions based on this unverified fuzzy image.
The purpose of a hierarchical pyramid is not to illustrate the convergence of separate entities, but to explain the importance of those entities.
Notice how the top does NOT say “Pro”.
Even photographers who do photography purely for money should be ‘enthusiastic’ about doing photography or else their results will be useless.
What does ‘pro’ infer to you? un-enthusiastic?
Making something a ‘profession’ can simply exclude anyone who really knows how to do that something from being allowed to do it instead of JUST by those exclusively and ‘assuredly professional’ like doctors and in this case photographers 🙂
This can sadly lead to the invention of new professions JUST to befit those suited to such an exclusive right over others who may know better or have demonstrable knowledge of it otherwise for instance 🙂
Like ‘first to do no harm’ sadly translated into the exclusive profession of doctoring as iatrogenic deaths of massive numbers of patients in their care who otherwise had no malady, objectively identifiable physiological complaint but it simply suited doctor and or patient and or insuror or other of gov etc for them to act as being treated only to create the malady and physical impediment for real, and subsequent symptoms to be found provingly for instance. 😀
Pro means to me that I suck, but I get paid for sucking. Or…or…I do tasteful nudes cause I’m artsy but I’m silently gay so it’s ok.
You see ‘PRO’ Ads nowadays that mimic point and shoot style photography. That says it all (mostly).
There, feel better now?
I wouldn’t sweat the details, that slide was likely put together by a receptionist for her bosses presentation.
Well Sony don’t currently offer a Pro system. They have an abandoned system and a half-baked gadget system. So the diagram is correct.
If Sony releases an FE 24-70 f/2.8 and pulls off a DSLR-quality A9, it may become the 1st Pro Sony camera since A99.
Thank you for your half baked response, we expect nothing less from Duidiot.
“They have an abandoned system and a half-baked gadget system. So the diagram is correct.”
The diagram shows the A99 and A77II at the same level as the A7 range, so they would be gadgets too, right?
They’re part of the Sony’s former professional offer that they have unfortunately no desire to develop anymore.
Why do people keep saying this? Its nonsense. Pro bodies aren’t on the same refresh schedule that consumer products are on, Notice how Canon goes 4-5 years between new pro bodies, same for Nikon. The A99 hasn’t been abandoned in any way, its still being produced and sold. Just because Sony’s refresh rate doesn’t follow your personal desires, doesn’t mean they’ve abandoned anything.
You really haven’t been following, have you?
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/the-a-mount-frustration-post-what-should-sony-do/
We can only hope, it would be cool to get a killer A9 that does proper video and all the lens goodness, but I doubt we will see an FE **-*** F2.8 before 2017
That’s possible. But what Sony expects us to do in the meantime?
Buy into the system they have themselves zero interest in?
Or buy into the FF system with f/4 lenses, which are no better than f/2.8 on APS-C?
2014-2017 is a long time, I imagine all Sony’s core userbase will be gone by then.
For now I’m sticking around to see what’s happening, using mostly fast manual nikon glas. I did buy the F4 zooms and they are pretty good but yes a 50mm f4 or F1.2 is a very different look.
Everybody who got into sony right now knows there are no fast zooms so I can’t really complain, was there when I made the choice 🙂 I guess we should go out more and shoot instead of complain about the lack of opportunity online 🙂
Your language is slipping as much as your mask ‘:I
Why don’t you all JUST have some kind of troll NERDo COD party together or something..
A genuine pro DSLR would be a D4s. Is that what you really want from Sony?
HULK analyze: Only pros using Sony are puppets of Sony marketing
Anyone notice how the picture looks like it’s slanted. Like the A mount cameras are weighing down the FE side of the pyramid. Coincidence? I think not.
Looks more like the a99 is just a bit higher on the scale then the whole A7 line and I find out I’m only suppose to use the a6000 should only be used as a hobby camera… damn.
Don’t worry, it’s more than enough for most hobbyists.
Somebody took a picture of a projection screen at an angle. And here I was thinking that you’re actually one of the pro’s who visit this board…
lol
Bad humor on my part. I’m a skeptic so what can I say. I’m always looking for those subliminal messages. And no, I’m not a pro. However, I do take my photography seriously and find the best weapon is the one with the most firepower. That’s why I shoot film. (That was another joke). Anyway, carry on!
well a-mount bodies are heavier 😉
They’re just stuffed with more awesomeness.
haha good one
…just like mom said…HULK still remember 🙂
Thank you for approve HULK comment earlier, bur you still ThinkingAboutPnsis. Please get cure, HULK want to save you, like you!
I can’t decide which Sony pyramid level I should be in; if I buy 2 x Sony cameras will I get a split personality please help this is all very confusing
Obviously, they are about to crown the pyramid.
Should have added. One camera for ‘A’ and ‘E’ solution…
whats the news on the a7r II and A7s II admin? im sure not going to buy an a7II to have the others be released 5 seconds after i sign the check. why didnt they just refresh all three at the same time?
Lack of resources = cost.
The S and R models will likely be reserved for the top tier bodies, this USED to be the A7 class (in mirrorless anyway) but with a new flagship coming this will be the new option for S and R models. A7 series will become one model only.
What is the top of the pyramid? Hobbyists with a red butt?
If we are talking about the most complete ah-inspiring camera, than the A77II would sit on top. Think about it.
So Sony will keep A7 selling at a lower price point. This sounds like a great idea. Cheap full frame for everyone. I guess this is the camera that will sell for 800 Euro with lens.
I guess the chart means A7 will get the A77ii price. Nice!…and may be a tiny bit lower.
For 1100.00 it’s a steal.
Already have seen it for ~$500 for the body. But a smaller version would still be very popular.
From my point of view (here in southern California, USA), the pyramid is wrong. It is too tall and too wide. At this time there are Pros, Hobbyists, and and a few older people.
This pyramid would have been accurate 10 years ago, before the bottom dropped out of camera sales. I’m not seeing many “Families and Casual Users” on the streets of SoCal, using any camera except for the ubiquitous Smart Phone. When I do see an ILC, it’s usually in the hands of a male over 50 years old, or a Commercial Photographer.
Thins may be different in your part of the world.
the Sony a5100 is the PRO!
a5100 outperforms the Canon 7DII and Nikon D7100 in quality, focus speed and video capability for 1/4th of the price.
This compact camera is ground breaking in video production. I’m excited to hear and see a full frame version in the same body style.
The problem, is that Sony, Canon and Nikon are pushing the more Profitable Full Frame camera as the ONLY Pro camera.
Yawn.
Trying to hold out for the a9 but the a7ll looks sweet. Need some good rumours on the a9. So c’mon Andrea. However, why does it seem that Nikon can get more out of a Sony sensor than Sony can? I own Sony and Canon. I don’t want to buy Nikon too.
Nikon has a complete system with proper lenses and bodies.
They are behind innovation-wise, still relying on old OVFs, but unlike Sony they offer a complete setup.
And it completely sucks:
I don’t care for “innovation”, I care for things that work. I don’t collect gadgets, I use machines.
EVFs really work, as did SLT. FE is in rudimentary stage so far.
Andrea any rumors or news on sony a58 replacement? The bottom of the foundation of the pyramid-where most of consumers can afford! It was been discontinued few mounts ago!
MarcoSartoriPhoto
I am glad that Sony caters so faithfully to the gay photographic community with their vibrating products also offering in-extremis dual use for sxually starved @nus loving photogs!
Hey admin, why do you still tolerate gay fgts on your forum?
i see we have moved to the political phase of trolLITE…
predictably
Yes
You gay, too?
No i am not, and your motivation is surely political not JUST gay…mine is photography
Don’t be the problem ok
Unfortunately sony refuse to accept the problem http://beforethecoffee.com/sony-a7r-vibration-comparison-with-nikon-d3-and-sony-nex-7/ it is sad
@Andrea: MarcoSatoriPhoto is member of IPSAL (International Photographic Society of @nus Lovers). Please ban this dsgstg dirt pshing fgt!
“Not all makes a lot of sense to me like: A7 below the other A7 cameras”
Well, the A7r is far superior to the A7 in every way… what doesn’t make sense about that?
not in every way.
You’re right, the shutter bothers some people… in most ways!
It’s a target market demographic pyramid not a “what camera is better” pyramid.
If you design 2 cameras, an entry level DSLR and a professional DSLR, namely a 550d and a 5d Mark 3, and then you decide to update the entry level DSLR from a 550d to a 600d, does the target demographic change? Are you still aiming to please the hobbyist or entry level market? Does your business model change?
Surely the hobbyist 600d doesn’t suddenly become a professional DSLR simply because it’s the latest model? Why would the target demographic change?
The pyramid states the a7 is a hobbyist camera yet the a7 mk 2 sits above hobbyist. From this statement we are to infer it’s targeted at the same demographic, is it not?
I could be wrong, but isn’t the video potential (compression) on the mk2 near a pro level while the A7 is a standard full hd?
Actually, the only advantage is more resolution and no anti-aliasing filter.
A7 focuses faster with more burst rate.
I doubt a sports photographer would use these cameras.
In studio or landscape, once you set your focus point it’s not really an issue…
I’d take image quality over focussing speed any day. Also, we’re talking milliseconds here, not seconds.
just bought the cam (a7) and don’t really care about what level it is ^^
Great discussions here, but I have one question. Why does this image look so fake? No straight lines, was this made by a drunk sony graphic designer?
Probably a photo of a projected slide taken from an angle
Who says a Pro can’t use a point and shoot? LOL