Sony-A77 24p test, with Sigma 30mm f1.4 (Color band noise) from Paul Kim on Vimeo.
The video on top shows the color band noise produced by the [shoplink 8461]Sony A77[/shoplink]. You can see it at the end of the video. I guess this has again something to do with the firmware issue. I hope the new firmware upgrade will fix this soon. Interesting that not a single official reviewer did noticed the problem. If some A77 owner or reviewer is reading this please check if you see the same problem on your camera. Thanks!
New A77 ISO comparison at fotkidepo here and here. At low ISO the A77 easily beats the [shoplink 6952]Nikon D7000[/shoplink] and [shoplink 6954]Canon 7D[/shoplink].
Our reader George sent me this: “Andrea, I’ve had the A77 in the UK for a week and been doing some tests of my own in RAW + JPEG at all ISO’s. The JPEG images look very good but the RAW’s are looking awful with a lot of color noise that I cant get rid of. When I put the files through the only RAW converters that I have which will recognise the files (IDC v4 and Rawtherapee 4) I’m having a problem getting rid of the noise and I’m left with ugly artefacts. There’s a thread on DPRview about it , “Me and My A77 – Noisy Images”. The consensus of opinion is that the JPEG’s out of the A77 are looking very good but there’s something strange going on with the RAW files which must be down to a lack of proper RAW support. The strange thing is that I’m using IDC v4 which came with the camera. If you could find out from your sources why the RAW’s are looking awful and when we’ll have Adobe RAW support then it would put my mind at rest. Overall the camera is terrific.
I’ve got a gallery on my website with images that are available for download to see the problem. http://www.wirralpix.com/p442257830“
Sonny A77 hands-on at ThePhoBlographer: “Overall, the build quality of the A77 seemed very impressive. It’s a solid body that isn’t overly heavy, but still feels extremely robust. The Sony Rep told me that he shot a wedding with it this past weekend, and it was able to take all the normal punishment that a wedding photographer dishes out on their cameras. He also stated that the 16-50mm f2.8 lens handled extremely well when shooting the wedding. By that, it had great image quality, focuses quickly, and just overall worked well. Indeed, the 16-50mm was quite impressive, but I wasn’t floored by it.”
Alison sent me this: “There is another way to open the A77 files is the Bibble 5 release candidate: http://support.bibblelabs.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=19362 . I tried just two files, but they worked fine (technically, both images were out of focus ;)) ”
The A77 is travelling to Mongolia: http://www.remichapeaublanc.com/mongolie/ (in french!).
There is also another test on the chinese Sina website.
And those are the links to preorder the new cameras and lenses:
A77 at [shopcountry 8461].
A65 at [shopcountry 8459].
Sony NEX-7 [shopcountry 8454].
Sony NEX-5n [shopcountry 8452].
Zeiss 24mm f/1.8 [shopcountry 8450].
Sony 50mm f/1.8 [shopcountry 8448].
Sony 55-210mm [shopcountry 8444].
NEX-5n viewfinder [shopcountry 9110].
70 Responses
The A77 does very well against the D7000 in the fotkidepo comparison. I am not trying to be a naysayer–in fact, I have the NEX 7 and 24mm preordered–but how could this be when all the reviews/comparisons up until now have shown the D7000 crushing the A77 at high ISO? Any thoughts?
The more I read about the A77 the more I’m glad I cancelled my order for it and pre-ordered the NEX-7 instead. I like what I’ve read about the A77’s features and build quality, but Sony seems to have made too many compromises that negatively impact image quality. Perhaps some of these can be corrected with a firmware patch, but I suspect that most of them have been designed in.
Actually, I think MOST of the issues can be corrected with firmware. I definitely feel that a lot of these issues should have been caught before the cameras started shipping. I also have the NEX 7 preordered and I am hoping Sony learns its lesson from the NEX 5n and A77 screw-ups. I would rather see the NEX 7 release delayed a month or two than receive a camera that has a bunch of problems. Having said that, from a marketing perspective, I do understand the pressure to get these cameras out the door as quickly as possible after they are announced.
i think the guys from fotkidepo are drinking too much
Sony has dumped product on the market in the past that they knew was defective before it ever left their factories. LCD televisions to be specific and then used the same defective units to replace the first wave of sales. This can be verified on the net. At best they are very slow learners.
I dont have sound on this clip. But i would not be suprised its a phone ringing in his pocket that makes this disortion.
it wasn’t phone ringing. nothing happened while i”m filming.
I deleted the audio because of my voice, and there was no phone ringing.
You’re along the right lines, this is EM interference and nothing to do with the camera itself. Mobile phones generate EM fields even when they’re not ringing. They periodically send RACH bursts to acquire service for several reasons and you’ll be completely unaware of it. Additionally, there are plenty of external factors which can cause this, subterranean power cables and all sorts. The color banding isnt continual, it only occurs when the camera is in a certain position/orientation at the end of the video, that rules out the camera and points to some sort of electrically induced effect from an external source. FWIW, I dont see it on my A77….which arrived yesterday!!!.
It definitely not related with what you call EM fields.
Also it occurs few times, not only at the end.
Here is another video shows color banding
http://vimeo.com/29754692
And i have more color banding videos coming, “without” having mobile phone in my pocket.
were both those videos taken with the same lens? i.e Sigma 30 F1.4 EX DG HSM
ooops sorry, A-mount version doesn’t have HSM. But either way was it still the same lens?
Additionally, in the comments you say “MF” is that manual focus and if so how did you set manual focus, using the switch on the lens or one the camera itself?
The color banding looks firmware correctable. The wobble is actually more upsetting to me but I guess the camera is moving pretty quickly there.
The high ISO tests seem a little suspect. In the cloth test the D7000 seems framed (and maybe even focused?) differently than the other two. That said, in that test the A77 holds its own against the 7D to my eyes. In the plant test the A77 looses the red color info very quickly and resorts to smearing vs. grain (ala D7000) in the high ISO. I’d rather have grain with more detail personally, but other tests have shown the the updated A77 firmware improves the color detail at high ISOs so perhaps this test is already irrelevant?
Digital Rev finally did a review on the a77! Although Kai is a nikon, canon and leica fan boy he says its a good camera. Even if he has a hard time saying it and in his own words. To get him to say good things about Sony is like getting a 5 star review, check it out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Al1BI82nV9A
did sony rush something to launch these las cameras? they all seem to be plagued by bugs of all sorts, firmware, physical parts making clicking noises. I think that’s pretty awful.
What are you talking about ? Have you seen the ISO comparison at fotkidepo bewteen A77/7D/D7000, a clear win for the A77, even at ISO6400. The JPEG engine is doing a great job. This isn’t the first comparison I see where the A77 has more detail/sharpness over the D7000/7D.
I can see the banding but could it not be the video editing software
or compression also? More people have to test to see what is the source.
I got a feel from the start that Sony was a bit early with
the new cameras. But I guess firmware updates can fix most issues.
I edited and exported with premier cs5, but there is the same band noise in original video.
I have to say… im in two minds… do i buy another a900 and wait to see what FF sony brings out next year?? or switch to Nikon? The ISO results so far from the A77 is so shocking and now the colour noise problems, shutdown problems, and IQ not as good as even the 5n??? I know some people are extremely disappointed in this camera so far… but I could be totally wrong… and maybe the camera will be awesome after the official updates and fixes are done… but they have had 4+ years to get it right… how can they not get it right before sending out all the cameras to stores??? i dont buy it!
lol @ shocking
Be more dramatic please
It’s 2% worse (within the margin of testing error) of the a55, and far better dynamic range, colours and 8mp more resolution.
Hardly shocking lol
really??? 2% WORSE? for a camera that is supposed to be the greatest sony camera to date??? Regardless if its 2% or 1%… its WORSE… if you compare it to the A900 or even A700 the ISO results are SHOCKING for the mighty A77!
Im actually a sony fan boy if im honest… and this kills me to say it! I have almost 8-9k euro of pro lenses so i have invested a lot in to sony. I do not want to leave at all…
I hope to get one soon after the updates are done… dont patronize people for speaking the truth.
It is the best Sony camera to date. More features, best video, properly weather sealed etc etc etc
Plus a stop more dynamic range and better colour accuracy. That’s more important than 2% change in ISO performance.
David, I do a lot of concert and night life photography. I was expecting at least an improvement on the camera rather than a decline in ISO performance (even at just 2%). Can you understand my point?
anyway… I think the proof will be in the pudding when we actually get our hands on one and test it properly.
Can I have your glasses please?
OUCH! and rolling shutter is strong too.
Jeesh,…based on all the bugs and supposed future “firmware fixes”, this camera is not ready for prime time yet.
I thought a month ago that this camera would scare Canon. Now it seems that not only is there nothing for Canon to fear, those guys are prolly laughing today.
Aside from Sony’s phase detection auto focus feature, Canon can literally replicate every other feature/function/gimmick that the A77 has into their new Canon models. The A77’s .iso performance just mediocre at best.
Wow 🙁
P.S. I REALLY hope that Sony tests their new FF camera in a VERY different way than the A77 was tested. Forget all the secrecy and let more outside people contribute. The Sony FF camera will be BETTER for it.
Have you tried to use the optical viewfinder a Canon or Nikon DSLR got
in live view? I have, and it is totally black.
Because it is optical and in live view the mirror goes up so
no more view in the view finder.
This is one think the SLT design is excellent with, you can use the
view finder all the time.
So I like the SLT design with electronic viewfinder.
But the A77 got maybe some issues yet thet Sony must fix in a firmware
update. And… I don’t need 24MP and would prefer the 16MP NEX-5N sensor
because I like more the image samples I have seen with that sensor.
But the A77 24MP sensor got excellent dynamic range and colours
in low ISO. From ISO 50 to ISO 1600 I would have no problems with the A77.
But over ISO 1600 the noise reduction is bad, but maybe something Sony
can make better with a firmware update.
And if the CPU/firmware issue rumor is true, who knows what final
image quality will be.
But but but… I got a A700 and want now a smaller system anyway.
So I look at Fujifilm X10 and Sony NEX-5N, maybe buy both since
they are really very different, X10 2/3″ sensor vs. APS-C sensor in NEX.
And next year I hope for a FF mirrorless, with EVF 16-24MP (not more)
and 2-3 small good primes.
I have said it before and this is the last time I will say it as you people never listen or give any explanation as to why. But why do you think 24 MP FF is max? There is no evidence that a 9MP APS-c would have any advantage over an A77 never mined nex-5N.so why FF with pixels that size. Even with same size pixels a FF still has some advantage from pure light gathering. So there is no reason to go for bigger pixels than best APS-C. 16-24MP is good range for APS-C but for FF its nuts. on that basis the A700 should be better all-round than the A77 but it is worse so let tech advance do its job and use best today ie FF 36-54MP. Do the maths take 5N or D7000 and make it FF and you have 36MP potentially world’s best Low light. So less MP would give diminishing (if any) returns.
Yeah I have read about that. But I have no need for more then around 6MP for my hobby use, so why should I have to waste battery/CPU power and storage because “we just must have 24MP++”?
The sensor should have “binning support in RAW” or something, so I could
save to e.g 6MP RAW 14 or 16 bit, I don’t need more resolution but I could for sure need more dynamic range.
With less MP’s less storage, so more images in the buffer etc.
There should just be some more options with high resolution sensors.
Like Fujifilm are doing, or maybe what Sony are planing.
Sony said something about making “futuristic sensors”, I guess they
are talking about binning or something else fancy.
I welcome that, because 36MP images are waste of time for me.
For you Mr. Cliff 🙂
“Sony’s A77 Is The New King of APS-C DSLRs” -popphoto
http://www.popphoto.com/gear/2011/09/lab-test-sony-a77-new-king-aps-c-dslrs
I’m very disappointed that there are so many issues with this camera after singing it’s praises to my canikon colleagues. As a stalwart Sony supporter it’s downright embarrassing. Secondly can anyone explain why Nikon can get more ISO performance out of our (Sony) sensors? Surely Sony should know how to get the best out of their own sensors.
Name a camera which launched and DIDN’T need some sort of fix?
My first Sony DSLR worked perfectly straight out the box…..which is one of the reasons why I am still a Sony die hard.
But surly your seeing a pattern here. 5n issues for the last 3 weeks plus recall…a77 for the last week… you don’t think nex-7 won’t be another minefield? Sony’s stuff are all looking interesting, enough to keep me checking their stuff out but they need to dot their i’s and cross their t’s before they release. Most new releases have their issues but this is starting make me cringe.
“When I put the files through the only RAW converters that I have which will recognise the files…”
This is where I stopped reading, because the reviewer is a moron
Wait for ACR and lightroom.. how many times does it need to be said
It constantly amazes me how dumb so called photographers can be nowadays. Wow seriously, cant get rid of the noise in raw conversion? I bet he never experiences the noise handling characteristic transition of converters happened just a few years ago. The same thing can be said to a lot of readers here. Seriously, spend some more time shooting / processsing than reading. They help.
Honestly, we don’t know what the tsunami has done to traditional suppliers, contractors, etc. that were involved with these cameras. As long as Sony is willing to fix some bugs that may need to be fixed, I am still game. I have already got my NEX-7 pre-ordered and I am hoping that since it is the last to be released, the bugs will be worked out for the most part from real world testing on the other models 😉
Edit: I don’t know why this posted several below the comment that it was supposed to be for.
That footage looks terrible. Very frustrating Sony!! Wait till you have it perfect then release it please.
It seems that every day another disappointing story is being reported about the recent Sony cameras.
Hopefully soon, it will get better; I’m really rooting for them getting it together by the time the new full frames come out.
I figure it will cost me about $8k just to replace my A-mount and Zeiss optics with Nikon or Canon if I need to move.
I’ll buy a 135 1.8 for a good price if you have one 😀
Maybe,
I have two, one I been using everyday for several years and its about shot and the other is about a year old.
If Sony fails to deliver I’ll look you up
I’ll help you unload that second Zeiss 135mm F/1.8 Anything to help my SAR fallen comrades. 😉
Do you happen to have a 135STF as well?
Damn it, count me in for the Zeiss 135 if the deal falls through.
I wish I had a Zeiss 135. Steve’s would fit the bill, though.
Links from George… What is the purpose of showing crops at 300%-400%? While I appreciate the samples, the rule for every print shop in the world is 100%. If it looks great at 100%, then it prints great…
This pixel peeping is really getting out of hand. No file holds up at 300-400%.
Quote from the PhotoBloger…
“The Sony Rep told me that he shot a wedding with it this past weekend, and it was able to take all the normal punishment that a wedding photographer dishes out on their cameras.”
OK… is Sony not paying their reps enough so they have to shoot weddings on the side?
And after one wedding, he’s qualified the camera as capable of taking all the punishment?
LMAO… some of these comments kill me. We usually don’t speak of a cameras field durability until it’s been tested beyond a few assignments. But hey, I guess I’ll take his word for it. How many togs were expecting to shoot weddings this past weekend with their brand new broken out of the box a77?
Yup, which is why I keep saying that most reviews are ridiculous.
Don’t forget, they don’t really care about informing you. They want readers and subscribers.
Go and try the damn camera in a store.. half of the online reviewers are incompetent. Tons of bad photos (of course underexposed high ISO shots are noisy), badly focused shots, terrible jerky videos, plus inane comments from opening .arw files with unsupported software and being surprised that it looks bad!
+10
+1
But noone will ever remember the fact that those online & magazine reviewers care more about hype rather than truth.
Forum comments like in Flickr are actually more useful.
Dpreview is too biased. Dyxum is less biased but I believe still biased.
+1. Absolutelly agree about reviews and photos… The happy Ones to have an opportunity to test Nex7+Zeiss get such samples…. Are they photographers or housewives? Studio samples are not better…
The High ISO results from this test look excellent and compete with the canikon’s, instead of repeating what you have all said in ever other damn thread on here, shouldn’t we be discussing why this is?
In the case of the woven cloth, this has obviously been shot in good light, which is a pointless test as we can assume it could easily been shot without the use of anything over ISO400, this leads me to believe the results of this are weighted in Sony’s favour, even in other tests where the A77 has come a distant 3rd, there have been areas where the A77 has shown advantages, are fotkidepo just cooking the books?
An element that seems consistent with other tests is that JPG performance out of the camera seems vastly superior to RAW+PP, this could be down to a large number of things, but a general rule is that RAW is always going to be far better than JPG, surely a positive?
People are comparing this to 7d/d7000, i would expect it to trump both of these cameras, because, yes it may be better by a bit, but im sure canikon’s next gen of cameras will be better than thier current versions… Which will leave the a77 languishing at the bottom of the pile…..
Is Nikon’s next gen to have EVF which previews exact exposure results as you shoot? Will it have 12fps? Will it have best in class AF for vid? Will it be mirrorless or still retain the flapping vibrations to reduce microcontrast. Remember… the lab tests are all mirror lockup. Real world shooting most likely will have Nikon flapping its mirror in the wind, causing extra vibes the Sony doesn’t share. Will the next gen Nikon have in body stabilization?
Poor little a77… doomed to languish at the bottom, with me.
+1!! Let’s wait and see that Canon and Nikon, compare them and only after that make the conclusion. At this moment We have A77 with its pros and cons, and saying “canikon’s next gen of cameras will be better than thier current versions” has no sense…
their lenses will keep you company too 🙂
Well in all fairness we are comparing the a700 sucessor to the 7d.. I think it is reasonable tosay the a77 is better than the a700…. So you cant expect the next 7dmk2 to be worse…..
The current firmware/camera is only just beating the 7d in iso performance….
So, if canon improve the 7d as much as the 77 was over the 700 (forgetting mechanics, just IQ) then yes, you shall languish.
Uhggg… I don’t remember languishing with 1600ASA grainy film, or first gen noisy digicams like Fuji S1 and Kodak DCS560. Grainy ISO has never prevented me from being a photographer. Never one complaint about noise or grain in 30 years of client shooting.
Now comes the a77 with better noise control than any camera I’ve ever had the pleasure of using, and somehow my career will suffer for that? LOL… It’s so far ahead of the game for me that this noise argument is become really silly.
I literally DON’T CARE what CaNiko releases anytime in the future. It’s reached a point of diminishing returns that don’t leave me questioning my A-Mount lens investment whatsoever.
The fact that I can’t attach my 100mm f2 or 200mm f2.8 on any CaNiko body outweighs a desire for an extra stop of light gathering ability in the ISO stratosphere. I’m not afraid to light a room when necessary, and shoot lower iso… much lower.
You seem to be going off on a tangent of personal attack…..
My point was simple, if the 77 is on par with the 7d, then once the mk2 is out it will be the worst performer of the three (7dmk2/d8000).
Your the only one implying the performance to be bad..
At no stage did anyone say this camera would be detrimental to your career. I am merely insinuating that i would like a market leading camera, and by market leading i mean, outperforming canikon. In every sense.
Take from that what you will….
How are my comments “personal attack”? You’re the one who said we’d “languish” upon the release of competition. Just as the new stuff as soon as it is replaced, and rplaced again, and again over time. Nobody wins the tech game for long because everything is replace eventually… even the future CaNikos.
It reaches a point of diminishing returns.
Shall I stop scanning my old high iso film collection because it just doesn’t hold up against mod digicams? Shall I trash my older shots from first gen digicams because they aren’t as good as they could have been if captured with newer gear?
The banding can be reproduced in the 5n, it’s basically when the EV is pushed up in an environment that is very bright, then the banding will pop up like that
The d7000 photos in the two iso comparisons is way out of focus. next time they should do a proper test to compare. The a77 scored way worse than the 7d on DxO mark and the d7000 out performs every APS-C camera on the market other than the pentax K5. Low light performance didn’t even break 1000 on the DxO so how can it out perform both the d7000 and 7d. The old a55 produces sharper images than tha a77’s 24MP ever could. Also there is no way a SLT can outperform a traditional SLR in low light due to the sensor having to be gained up to make up for the 30 percent loss of light. The sensor of the a77 is always being gained up over 1/3 a stop to produce a proper exposure. That’s like canon and nikon’s extended iso ranges where the sensor is basically being amplified to increase sensitivity. Not a good design. This is also why the a77 has the worst battery life out of all slr style cameras. Old Nikon d2h got 1050 shots per charge next to the 540 rated for the a77 and it’s almost 10 years old.
OT: According to mobile01 user, A77 firmware 1.03 will be out on 30/09. User claim he already has the firmware.
“The a77 scored way worse than the 7d on DxO mark” – Really?? 7D has 66, and A77’s score is 78!
“Low light performance didn’t even break 1000 on the DxO so how can it out perform both the d7000 and 7d” – 7D’s max.ISO at DXO is 853, just a bit better than that of A77… But compare DR and color depth… 7D has one of the worst sensors… Even A35 is better(camera that costs only $600)…
“Old Nikon d2h got 1050 shots per charge next to the 540 rated for the a77” – diffenent methodics, that’s all. And don’t forget, 3-inch displays modern cameras have need more energy. Sony A850’s battery life is 880 shots, but in real life I make approximatelly 1500 shots…
Yup.. several reviews sites say they got over 1,000 images and 30 mins of videos from an a77 with one battery.
hmm… looking at the videos, it looks like the auto gain adjusting the different color channels independently. if they had not taken the new chip into account, the timings could be off, causing this issue.
eager to see what firmware updates will do for this camera.
according to alphamountworld sony is doing a firmware update…
http://www.alphamountworld.com/forums/sony-digital-slr-talk/confirmed-sony-are-doing-new-firmware-up/2011-9/7769
Good news 🙂
Two more videos showing color banding.
http://vimeo.com/29674611 (0.11)
http://vimeo.com/29754692 (entire video)
Just saw this passing by.
Lightroom® 3.5 update
September 29, 2011
The Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 3.5 update includes these enhancements:
Additional camera support for over 20 new camera models including the Nikon Coolpix P7100, Olympus E-PL3 and Sony SLT-A77
Corrections for issues introduced in previous versions of Lightroom 3
Camera Raw 6.5 Update
September 29, 2011
This new version of the Camera Raw plug-in replaces the original one that was installed with Adobe Photoshop CS5, Adobe Photoshop Elements 9 and Adobe Premiere Elements 9 software. Visit the Camera Raw page for a complete list of supported cameras.
THERe are several aspects Re’ A77 that didn’t impress and the fact the camera shut down twice for no apparant reason is one(actually more than twice if you count the times I removed battery and refired the camera only
to have it go off again after one or two shots.
I though LOW light images were….like ”monet paintings in out of focus areas…HOWEVER…the A55, and Pentax K20D….would return a BLACK image
if shot in such low light.
people trying to impress….with super big megapixals and Iso count well it’s all crap…I’ve turned the A77 down to 12mp…and I’m happy with the results….YOU might get a perfect clear image at 24mp…in perfect conditions…but I wouldn’t hold my breath…I’d like it to offer 18mp…..WOULD I buy the camera again….DEFINATELY NOT!!!!
…….however it’s still possibly the best camera for price of the market.
I was debating whether to sell it on right away….but the market talk has probably dudded it.