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DxOmark (Click here) tested the Sony A58 sensor results. It earned 74 points which puts it right in the middle between the Canon 650D (62 points) and the NIkon D5200 (84 points).
As I told you yesterday this may be the last Sony APS-C camera using a translucent mirror. Now we are all curious to se how the next APS-C A-mount camera will be!
63 Responses
The A57 beats it in all three categories, albeit not by all that much.
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Camera-Sensor-Database/Sony/SLT-Alpha-57
Worse than that, the a580 beats the a57, a58, a65, a77… Smashes them all on ISO. Total rating of 80, considerably beyond the newer cameras.
I wonder if that’s why it has retained such high resale value. Only one available on ebay currently… and they want $1400 for it. Though that’s a bit high of course, the fact that only one is available is telling. Check the completed listings are getting between $500 and $750 consistently for body only. folks are paying more for a used a580 body only OVF than for a new a58, or used a57, and even the a65’s with a lens. Just check the eBay completed listings pages for all these cameras.
Perhaps because it’s an OVF? Nah…
Perhaps because of the high resolution LCD? Nah…
Perhaps because of the iISO hot shoe? Nah…
Perhaps because it’s the last 5 series to accept vertical battery grip? Nah…
Perhaps because it simply performs wonderfully without all the jingle bells? Perhaps.
Yup… I love my a580… Ranked 1 point better than the a900 and a850 on dxo mark… Wont sell it until it dies… The only reason I keep my Minolta Maxxum lenses since I already sold my a77 and Sony lenses…
I had a a580 once and well I did not care for it.
There’s a couple a580 bodies for sale on http://KEH.com right now too. It’s a camera I’ve considered buying several times. And yeah. For the OVF and the awesome high ISO performance.
http://www.keh.com/camera/Sony-Digital-Camera-Bodies/1/sku-DS029991197110?r=FE
That said… I’ve resisted that temptation to buy an a580 thus far. I find that I rarely crave the APS-C field of view. Except for when I take photos for myself that is. On hikes: birding with my Dad. And for those times my a700 suits me just fine for now.
For work (portraits) I really prefer a full frame field of view and a large viewfinder. I actually just bought another full frame camera today! An a900. A classic.
🙂
The OVF in the A580 …is a peeping hole at best. And I know because I own one. The fact so very few were sold helps explain price and availability on the used market too. The 5 series would have died without SLT’s, even though the A580 had its qualities. It’s just that it wasn’t special enough to stand out among the Canon and Nikon badges.
Another thing not represented by the DXO numbers is the visual impact of electronic noise. The A580 suffers notably from amp glow and color shifts towards blue/ purple in shadows at the higher ISO’s. The A57 does a hair better here, as does the A58.
“A peeping hole” – I feel like anyone who says that hasn’t used it for more than five minutes. I find the a580 finder perfectly adequate. It’s easy to manually focus very accurately through that finder. While it’s smaller than a full frame OVF, that just makes composition faster (because you don’t have to look around as much to see the entire frame). In near complete darkness, the OVF remains usable for framing, while live view (and EVFs) show nothing but noise. And a big plus of the a580’s finder is its low battery consumption.
Amp glow – Yes, the a580 does suffer from blacks shifting to purple at high ISOs, but that only occurs at ISO 12800, and only if you start pushing (in raw) to 25600 or 51200 equivalent. And SLTs get to the point where they suffer from that color shift faster, because the sensor gets less light to begin with.
All APS-C OVFs are horrible imho and the A580 is hardly one of the good ones. Manual focusing is way better on a FF or EVF. But maybe you haven’t use one of those? I certainly don’t need to look around to get my composition right, it’s hardly that large of a view.
When I bought a new cam after my A700 died on me I had the choice between the A55 and A580. However I found the A580 viewfinder a bit too tiny for my needs and chose the far far bigger A55 viewfinder. Didn’t like the EVF actually but now I have come to really appreciate its advantages over an OVF.
Also I really couldn’t tell much difference in IQ between the A55 and A580 upto ISO 1600. Beyond that the A580 looked a bit cleaner but the overall photo was still very noisy and IMO not really useful except for some casual shots.
I know for a fact that I have used that viewfinder longer and more than you have, since I upgraded from the A550 and have run both cameras well beyond their rated shutter life.
It’s all relative and what you see as fine, I see as a peeping hole compared to the A900 OVF and A99 EVF.
What you feel is accurate MF, I feel is not, not comparable to pixel level accuracy found with a good LV.
And no, the A57 and A58 appear to be better shielded for electronic noise as described. Your comment on durability of the tilting screen also lacks fundament with just one sample turned into generalization, assuming the malfunctioning is even related to the tilting. To me that’s rather an example of cognitive dissonance.
I have an a580 too, but a few months ago I got a D600, and the a580 doesn’t get much use.
The biggest problem with the a580 was the lack of a release priority option in AF-C mode. That led to A LOT of missed action shots. The second biggest problem was the flexible LCD mount. The LCD stopped working. Flexible LCD mounts…just aren’t that durable.
But otherwise, the a580 is an excellent camera. Image quality is still neck-to-neck with the latest APS-C cameras (except for resolution). It’s also very responsive, and has probably the best battery life of any entry level DSLR (and even better than a lot of mid-range models)
Although the score is even worse than A35(detail), to me the PLASTIC mount ring is more abysmal.
Epic fail…
Mirror boxes are dinosaurs.
How much you want to bet that Sony Knew it was finished with the SLT before this downgraded 5 series hit final design and before production
They had probably made the decision before the A99 was announced. Soon after that, the rumours of a full frame NEX began and the rumoured higher-end full frame Axx was dropped.
No drastic improvement since A55.
SLT was always a dead end – a stop-gap measure to give Sony time to develop something better.
I know that argument, but don’t buy it for a second. They really wanted this tech to take off. If they were simply buying time until something better, they could easily have continued with an improved OVF lineup, and killed Nikon with cheap full frame cameras, and a 36mp 9 series with their own sensor. They didn’t need SLT to buy time. They were betting their babies on it.
True… Sony already had what it need to gain ground but they sold it to Nikon… The Sony sensor they had in the d600 and d800’s… If Sony really wanted to be a contender and gain ground, they could have, and not with SLT (Obviously)
They could have kept those sensors for themselves and not sold out to Nikon… Its funny that it took Nikon switching to Toshiba sensors on their 2 newest dslr’s for Sony to start claiming they are going to produce better products… Maybe Sony will start to value its users more than Sony values Nikon now…
Ahh… Just imagine Sony’s status now if they would have kept the a99 OVF, with the proper flash mount, wider focus area, and the 24MP sensor it has in it and the A1X with OVF, the 36MP sensor they sold to Nikon, and proper flash, and Nikon not having a d600, d800, or d800e… Things would have been way different for Sony right now….
Way different. They would have had the best sensors in their own cameras without intentional crippling for sake of video gawds. And Nikon would be suffering the recovery of second class sensors swimming in oil drops.
And Sony could still pursue whatever tech they promise for the future, with even greater liberty. Sony sold out their own customers to the competition. And they flushed their legacy loyalists down the toilet.
Sony can thank my Minolta lenses and Minolta designed a900/a700 for me staying with Alpha. And they can thank the used market full of high quality two year old Alphas to keep folks interested for the next year. Nothing they have now is worth waiting another year for more vague promises.
We’re still waiting on the 2010 rumor of a950 30mp OVF High End Alpha…
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr-new-sony-highend-alpha-camera/
Here’s a user poll from 2011… How many of these 455 comments actually became reality?
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/we-need-your-suggestions-for-the-next-sony-fullframe-cameras/
Sony, please tell us you’re working with a renowned professional photographer to design your new cameras. Just lie to us again if you have to. But please don’t let the joystick boys guide the future of our system.
>Sony, please tell us you’re working with a renowned professional photographer to design your new cameras.
what does that mean? why do you think it will make cameras better? can renowned professional photographer make AF faster/more reliable, or decrease viewfinder blackout time?
Just stick a new 36 Mp sensor in A900?
Yes, instead of only doing SLT for a VERY limited number of bodies… They should have kept the OVF technology (Nobody would have ever used a SLT Alpha so those who like it would have never known to like it) and delivered what the current a900, a580, and a850 users currently loved about their cameras, IMAGE QUALITY and kept the Sony users new and old happy while they worked on a technology that was actually better, not just newer and very temporary… Then it would not have startled so many people (Especially those who cant read) into thinking Sony is abandoning the Alpha Mount all together…
Again… Nikon switching to Toshiba sensors was very good news for future Alpha users(And Nikon)…
If Sony would have kept their sensors to themselves, they would be in even worse condition right now. How many people would switch brand just because of a somewhat better sensor? And maybe the reason they switched to EVF was because their (rather great) OVF cameras weren’t selling well, so continuing to lose money didn’t make much sense?
And speaking of “professional photographers” and “joystick boys”, I hear that very often, yet I see amazing cameras coming from Sony. Up to this date Canon has their weird dial placement, no high end DSLR has a swivel screen, etc.
And those comments you are referring to:
“Compatibility with Minolta A-mount, Pentax K-mount and Nikon F-mount.”
“why not interchangeable sensors?”
“Glassless 3D-capable LCD screen”
These are comments on a blog, not marketing research.
Sony realized quickly that SLT wasn’t going to appeal to most pros, aside from some sports shooters. Which is why the only real pro A-mount lens they’ve released in the last two years was the 500mm f/4 G. The A-mount system has been languishing while Sony watches pros drift away to Nikon and Canon with their far more robust lens and accessory selections. SLT has been mostly for “prosumers”, i.e., people who like the speed of SLT’s autofocus. It lets them pretend to be pros when they take pictures of their kids’ soccer games with the kit lens.
Get off your high horse.
Mirror flap or not, it is not the reason Sony A mount if flailing. Neither is OVF vs EVF. These are all red herrings. Sony never had the time nor resources to attack the real problems, which are lens, accessories support, and service.
Sony and the fanboys can keep harping about mirror slap and EVF all they want. Neither of these two issues were ever big enough considerations to buyers. Sony is focused on marketing small issues and not fixing the big issues. Canikon fixed the big issues over decades. Sony is realizing a simple electronic gadget tacked on isn’t going to overcome the time advantage that canikon had.
@calxn – I agree.
I would have bought a Sony body – and have owned Sony compacts – but the lenses are a deal-breaker. There’s no way to get a broad selection of weather-sealed high-quality current lenses. NEX is a dead-end in my view as I don’t want to spend thousands on APS-C only glass. The Zeiss and G lines for Sony are really incomplete and those that do exist aren’t all sealed.
Having the rights to make autofocus Zeiss glass puts them up with Contax in terms of desirability. I can’t believe they waste it. There should be a full line of primes and fast-zooms to 200mm at the very best quality. It should be branded simply so people know which it is (hard with Nikon whose best lenses aren’t labelled specially).
Money isn’t an issue quality is.
Given how confused the A-mount is I’d suggest a bold move. Change the mount and shrink the flange distance. Sell an adaptor for the angry A-mounters and then kick-ass with bodies that can be adapted to Canon and Nikon. Build the best lenses Zeiss can calculate and we’ll come in droves. Even if the bodies are average we’ll always desire the best glass.
“which are lens, accessories support, and service”… what are these problem?
they did well in both u had stated…
Yeah, whatever you say…
Minolta began ten years after Nikon. Five years before Canon. Konica began fifty years before Nikon in the previous century.
Neither Canon or Nikon have any time advantage over the Minolta system that Sony is destroying.
CaNikon has countless features that sprang from the Mind of Minolta. Sony should get the memo. They were late to the game, twenty years after Canon. But even then, they didn’t make a camera until the 1980’s.
The photo biz is just not seeded into their mentality as much as the legacy competitors.
Sony is destroying Minolta? Minolta was dying, need I remind you?
Sony is destroying the fully functional, highly acclaimed Minolta system that they purchased. They wouldn’t have if it were not fully functional and highly acclaimed. They wouldn’t have if it didn’t come with a hugely loyal user base.
They are destroying all of that. They are not improving it. They are destroying it. And I fear it’s because they simply don’t know any better, having never produced a camera before 1980. Much less a professional camera with a 25 year legacy, as the a900 that Minolta designs gave them.
Problem is, I believe the A900 wasn’t selling well enough (thanks to Sony being idiots in terms of marketing the device and providing pro support), so instead of trying to beat Canikon at their game, Sony decided to try and make something different. It’s a very sound tactic.
Btw, if you ask me, failing the pro market is part of Minolta’s legacy.
i’ne no problems whatsoever with sony current lens lineup…good enough and cover everything i need already..
+1. Although in order of importance I would class them the other way around – service, accessories, lenses.
I agree with you. Sony needs more flash options and as far as the lenses go they have everything I need and what they don’t have I can get with minolta. They really should just have come out with a more old minolta lenses with new coating and a sony badge then work on some other new lenses. There is nothing that a nikon or canon camera can do, image quality wise that a sony can’t match or out match whether its slt or not. I switched to the NEX system and use manual nikon flash with triggers. I must admit that nikon and canon ttl system is way better than sony but I love the way sony has the quick shift bounce head. A better ttl system with more flash options and some more lenses would be awesome.
I own the d5200… Amazing camera… who would buy this camera when the d5200 is available???
MrLee, I used to buy Nikon stuff, but lately I only bought Sony. You want me to shoot you with my new A99???
I shoot Sony and Nikon… Cause they both have their strengths, weaknesses, and traits…
Those who don’t want to spend an extra $300.
wise move actually by sony. They have the best sensor around. Proven by DXO mark on Nikon’s camera using sony sensor. The poor high ISO on sony own camera is due to the implementation of the translucent mirror…
The DSLT is mainly just a transition phase. Its cleary now the next technology will be mirrorless DSLR with dual AF:On Chip PDAF+CDAF algorithm… a fancy name i thought will be a DSLM(Digital Single Lens Mirrorles)…hhhahahah
but again..anytime ADMIN can post a new Rumor saying that “Sony Top Management Drop the idea of this DSLM…will continue with DSLT tech….”
A58 features Sony’s most disappointing sensor in 2 years…they should just keep a57 which is a decent camera, vastly unimpressive but decent
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/(appareil1)/864%7C0/(brand)/Sony/(appareil2)/826%7C0/(brand2)/Sony/(appareil3)/736%7C0/(brand3)/Sony
In Comparometer, A58 images looked better to me (w.r.t. A57’s)–they were cleaner somehow. I don’t know, DXO tests don’t show this. I could get this camera, if cheap, in the future for its better than NEX AF and grip to shoot my kid’s sport events with tele zooms.
ISO values of A58 are significantly overstated
RAW ISO values as measured by DXO, not to be confused with camera metering and final image brightness of RAW files when opened in a converter or jpegs. For the comparometer, all you need to know is how it meters and the DXO values will not tell you that.
If camera has same result in DXO ISO, but better in comparometer, this suggests camera metering is giving higher exposures.
Plain Occam razor.
Oops I am sure I’ve found even simpler AF method with much less complex math on the links you gave.
I wouldn’t be that pessimistic. a58’s has more megapixel count, but has the same ISO performance as the a57, if you resize the images, overall you’ll have a cleaner result. Also to me it seems the Jpeg engine is different – a friend of mine recently bought the camera, didn’t have the chance to play with raw files, but @ISO3200 the OOC JPEG files from a58 look much better than those from my a77. So for a starter hobbist that will shoot mostly JPEG, you can’t go wrong. Also keep in mind the price, well bellow competition.
DXO downscales output from all cameras to same 8 Mpix (“print mode”), so as you see, you are wrong on that.
wasnt this a new sensor that was supposed to be 1/3 stop better in low light performance?
Im on the verge of moving Nikon, I tried really hard and fought bravely to defend Sony, but its been going backwards each time stepping further.
Interesting just how good the D5200 is. Who makes that sensor in the Nikon, Sony or Nikon?
5200’s sensor is said to be made by Toshiba.
It’s not nearly as good as these numbers suggest. It suffers from low ISO shadow banding both for stills and video and a weird blooming effect in high contrast scenes.
I would like to see that. Link please?
Sensor not as good as the numbers suggest? Tell that to the cinema DSLR fans. Apparently, the D5200 is the best video DSLR out there besides the GH3. Nikon knows what they’re doing. They chose Toshiba for the D5200 and Aptina for the 1 series for reasons we’re not privy to, but i’m pretty sure they have very good reasons.
Indeed. Nikon have always been good a taking a sensor fab and improving it. It’s always puzzled me how Sony never got the best out of their own sensor compared to the same sensor in a Nikon.
So I guess not every quality of a camera is measured in DxO scores … ?
what a shock …. 😉
/E
I think the head of the sensor development by Sony now has to make harakiri 🙂
Well there you go whilst I take DxO with a pinch of salt the much reported A58 does not better the A57 in low light. In fact it doesn’t beat it anywhere 😉
Sure might make a nice back up camera for £200 plastic mount and small buffer aside, but right now you’d have to be nuts to buy this over a close out deal A57
Even DXO said that once you factor in price it is better bang for the buck than either the D5200 or 650D (and 700D by extension). The fact is the A58 competes with the D3200 and that new 100D.
So they’ve downgraded the Alpha series. Everything moves down a notch. We should then expect the a78 and a99 replacement to be similarly downgraded as the a58 from a57. New a78 will compete with a one year old D5200, and a99 replacement will compete with a two year old D600. Barely compete because we still won’t have a flash system or any 3rd party support for it.
Meanwhile Canon will have released their high MP and Niko will also be updated. Just what kind of leapfrog game changer can we expect from a company that’s never serviced professional stills photographers before?
I have a plan to go for Sony .. SLT Alpha 58 .. Any suggestions?