After yesterday’s post about Sony removing the SLT tech form the APS-C series quite some people got scared that this also means the end of the Alpha Mount lines. I keep stressing you that this isn’t true and that the A-mount line will keep being developed. Three years ago Sony switched from Optical viewfinder to Electronic Viewfinder with translucent mirror. And next year we will see another switch (with some surprise?). The death of SLT is just the death of a feature..not the death of the camera line 🙂
So what’s the goal of Sony? One of my best Sony sources that always shared correct info sent me a short sentence:
“The Alpha line is not going away. They are working on technology that will outshine the competitors for early release next year.”
He is a top source and in one year from now we will be able to see and touch the new Alpha Camera Generation. Trust SAR and that source…he always told me the truth! Spread the word!
Readers are welcome to share their thoughts about the how the new A-mount camera generation should be to really make a difference in the market against Canon-Nikon DSLR!
Sources are welcome to let me know how the new generation A-mount cameras will be by sending an anonymous message through the contact form that sticks on the right border of this website or by contacting me (Andrea) directly at sonyalpharumors@gmail.com (create a fake gmail account to hide your ID). Thanks!
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Reminder (SR = Sonyrumor):
SR1=probably fake rumor
SR2=rumor from unknown sources
SR3=50% chance it is correct
SR4=rumor from known sources
SR5=almost certainly correct!
292 Responses
Is this the NEX-9 with dual A/E mount?
“And next year we will see another switch (with some surprise?).” make us believe?! duh
I thought Sony was supposed to “out shine” Canon a couple of years ago with a translucent mirror.
And for some of us they do 🙂
I have become a fan of evf. I shoot a lot of concerts and theater. With the Sony SLT I can frame adjust settings and frame in the viewfinder and never have to look at the LCD at all. I can follow the dancing and never miss action, now I even have turned off the preview. I am very happy with the results from the a77 and the Sony 70-200 f2.8 and I don’t need to go above iso 1600 in a theatre. I have never noticed any lag in the vf.
I have shot SLT cameras for 3 yrs. I have found the 1/2 stop of lost light to be a nonissue. I can easily adjust for that in setting the exposure in camera or in post and I have the advantage of ibis to help with a low shutter speed anyway. Let’s see ibis, focus peaking, and the evf easily outshine an off camera anyway. I would buy a Sony camera just for the focus peaking alone. I shoot completely manual much of the time anyway.
I am tired of so many people expressing concern about what Nikon and canon are doing. I do not care at all. Pick up your camera and shoot. There are many things in photography more important than gear anyway. For example being able to see light is far more important than your camera brand or whether the sensor is FF. I no longer visit this forum daily due to all the whining. I wonder who actually finds joy in photography? Do you only do it for money? And the ego of some people who call themselves a pro is just too much for me.
+1. In my opinion, Sony has failed to figure out exactly what they are trying to accomplish. We keep hearing “their next stuff will blow you out of the water”, but by the time it comes out all other brands have their next generation stuff out too.
By the time Sony releases a full frame/alpha mount mirrorless system, Canikon and the other companies will have their high end mirrorless systems out too with better lens choices and support. They could compete if their prices weren’t just as high as Canikon.
Sony shot themselves in the foot by trying to compete on the DSLR side by pushing out a ton of SLT cameras while ignoring the NEX line.
That one made me smile. You have a lot of faith in CaNikon mirrorless systems, predicting they will overtake Sony with high end cameras and lens systems, when in reality they have been dog slow in both entering the market and developing their *current* low end mirrorless systems to mature products with a good lens ecosystem.
Mirrorless equal to EVF. I don’t think canikon will ditch OVF and change to EVF easily.
What is the reason for Sony keep 2 lines of lenses, both for the same type of cameras (mirrorless) ?
Pavel, you dont get it. Mirrorless is a technology. Not a camera type.
Many people get confused when they hear “mirrorless” and immediately think that it hast to be a NEX sized camera only. From an ergonomics point of view, a DSLR sized camera is better. Also it balances large lenses much better than a small body of a NEX. But obviously it looses the ability of beeing compact as a NEX.
So why would Sony keep 2 mounts and 2 product lines? Because by having one line only, they would have to make compromises. Adapting the huge A-mount (FF) lenses to NEX would loose the advantage of having a compact system. Adapting NEX lenses to A mount would mean compromises on IQ. So the most logical solution is to keep 2 product lines, so that each is best in their market segment.
And this is the reason why all mirrorles systems have a different mount than their big brothers. Nikon has the Nikon 1 mount, Canon has the EF-M mount etc.
While I expect Sony to keep the A mount going for a few more years (and to support A-mount lenses indefinitely) I do not see any need for two mounts or two lines of cameras.
We are told the E mount is large enough to use with full frame, while the shorter back focus gives lens designers some extra room to work with. Certainly FF lenses will be larger than APS counterparts, and FF bodies could be larger than the current NEX line if only to provide room for bigger batteries and more processing power.
From what I know so far, it seems to make sense two consolidate to one lens mount, with advantages both to photographers and Sony.
No. That isn’t the reason that there are different mounts for various mirror less lines. It’s because of flange distance. Remove the mirror box and you can basically make a camera very very tiny (see nex) and most customers equate that with quality and good design. If they remove the mirror from alpha mount cameras they will basically have a big hole inside them for where the mirror once was.
Let’s figure out first, what’s the reason for Sony to make interchangeable lenses instead of having fixed lenses.
And let’s figure why we need photocameras at all.
What if Sony only made E mount bodies from now on? maybe they would support A mount lenses only through a full function adapter?
Everybody wins then. New e mount lenses could be small or large and all A mount customers would have full support too. If Sony gets the electronics right, there is no reason for A mount people to worry.
This all could be tied into this possible E/A hybrid mount rumor.
totally agree. As long as there is an adapter for SLT users to mount E mount lenses with full electronic control, then they shouldn’t feel like they’ve invested in a dead system, even the new Sony customers that buy the recently introduced a58. We have the amazing LA-EA2 to incorporate actual Phase detection into our NEX bodies, but if you could reverse the direction for a mount users, there would be no worry about the end for native a mount lens production.Investing in one mount would mean full development and production of one line of camera lenses which means far more options and hopefully higher quality options introduced for this exploding mirrorless camera revolution. Seems much more cost effective for Sony as well since their camera market share of their SLT end seems far less then their influence in the mirrorless market, go NEX!
Why wouldn’t people realize that adapters are a dead end. 90% of A-mount users don’t want or like adapters. Unlike E-Mount, A-Mount has IBIS, which is one of the primary reasons why adapters are not the way to go. A99/A900 user will never in their right mind, would LOVE to go the adapter route, with their prized 1.5k+ Lens. The only way it will still work out OK for Sony, is if going forward, they update all their A-mount lenses to E-mount and update their full interchangeable camera lineup to E-mount. They also would have to intoduce OIS into every A-Mount lens to make it worthwhile. They will piss off consumers in the process, by they’ve already done so with the hot-shoe change.
I think the sales figure of A99 isn’t pretty. So they have only two choices: A new camera structure for A mount or completely abandon A mount. Keeping a mount which is not profitable doesn’t seems reasonable. I hope this is not true cus I really miss Minolta stuff.
By supporting 2 mounts, they have to have 2 lines of lenses. Actually 3 now, as FF and APS-C lenses for A mount are different. And if they release FF NEX lenses (NEX-VG900 is already FF), there will be 4.
It is just a waste of R&D and marketing resources, and neither of the lens lines can possibly be as good and complete as competitors.
The only way forward is drop A-mount for APS-C altogether and leave it for FF only, or even completely switch to E-mount and let people use A-mount lenses with an adapter. Although there is little advantage to switching to E-mount for FF, the mount is too short for good corner performance if the rear element stays in the mount, so the lenses for it would have to be developed with rear element farther from the sensor, effectively integrating the adapter into each lens. And it would create the problem again where no native lenses are available and the reputation hit because the mount was dropped.
As the existing E mount lenses were smaller than all APSc dslr lenses, I believe shorter FFD could be advantage to made lenses smaller, lighter, easier and with larger iris, there are many F0.95 third party lenses for E mount out there.
And that apply to the FF mirrorless too. If the mirrorless system is such innovative. I think Sony would love to ditched the A mount if they could…
99% for sure..Mirrorless DSLR…
A Mirrorless Digital Single Lens Reflex camera? So…..if there’s no mirror, how does the ‘reflex’ work?
We know what you mean, but we probably shouldnt say Mirrorless DSLR. Thats like saying cheese-less cheese pizza.
I guess he means in terms of dslr body size
New camera is going to be called a99%
They can then release an A1% camera for the elite photographers 😉
I’m a little confused. If the alpha line were to become mirrorless, wouldn’t there be a lot of empty space between the sensor and lens? Wouldn’t the camera be big, compared to other mirrorless, for no reason if that was the case?
The reason would be better handling and IBIS (I suppose it’s the size of the camera that prevents adding that to the NEX line(?))
Both of which are far more important to me than smaller size.
none of those things will go were the mirror used to be. that mirrorbox will need to be empty. to no benefit at all. (or are there other benefits that i’m unaware of+) if it’s true that mirrorless AF will outperform the DSLR early 2014, things will change bigtime after that. you could always make a bigger NEX, with great handling and GPS and whatever, and whithot the waste of space that is the empty mirror box.
> that mirrorbox will need to be empty. to no benefit at all. (or are there other benefits that i’m unaware of+)
It helps to keep the angle of incidence low which is always better for the sensor.
It doesn’t.
Instead of empty one can put extra lens elements in lens for better abberation control.
And, if some sensors are bad with some lenses, that’s not a lens fault…
how bout we have a flip down CP or ND filter 🙂 to take up the space
just thought aobut this how bout a speed boster insert. even tho i only have one FF lens right now it woudl prompt me to get buy more
A basic fullframe sensor ($300-500) actually costs less than the Metabones speed booster. SONY should pay attention to this.
To John: where can I buy FF sensor for $300? :))
It’s not fair to compare B2B price with retail price of Speed Booster…
I believe you have to keep the housing the same size (even with that empty space) due to lens design was originally designed to allow space for the mirror. So even if the mirror is removed, the lens will still require the proper distance from the sensor to have it’s focus aligned correctly on the sensor.
That’s true, but as someone else noted it would provide greater flexibility for lens designers to build lenses that might have a rear element that protrudes into the “mirror box.” With a flipping mirror, any lens for the camera had to make sure it had sufficient clearance so as to not interfere with the mirror swing. This is not the case with a mirror-less design, and actually also is true for the SLT design. Whether or not this is something Sony’s lens designers might actually take advantage of one day who knows. Sony is so slow at introducing new A-mount lenses to begin with there is no way to guess what it might do several years down the road.
you can still put other crap in there that might not be in the NEX cameras, such as in body image stabilization and bigger grip/feel… etc
larger batteries, wifi, GPS, more card holders, more surface for buttons and controls, more connectors, more areas to mount video add-ons, simply more!
But you are right in that the cameras will be overlapping.
/E
Overlapping? Are you kidding me?
So a compact car and a SUV are overlapping just because they use a diesel engine?
Definetly not! The only overlap is that they both drive on roads. But a diesel engine in a compact will most likely never have the performance, top speed, torque or other parameters of a diesel engine in a SUV. On the other hand a SUV will never fit into a parking lot designed for a compact Smart.
So there really is no overlap. The NEX and Alpha line will both be mirrorless, but the product lines will be clearly separated by performance, size and other factors!
The overlap is that if you have one or two people needing to get from A to B on normal roads… both will do the job just fine.
Sure one will fit into smaller parking spaces, the other will hold more stuff.
Either may be faster (and either may have the “image” you want… sigh.)
They can overlap by sharing sensors and EVFs.
Yes, overlap.
Let’s say it like this: If Sony only had the e-mount cameras, they would never introduce the a-mount.
But you’re right in that they appeal to different users amd markets.
They will overlap in sharing sensors, EVF, AF-system and performance, and a lot more.
/E
It would be like Panasonic’s G5 or GH3. They’re big bodies with the same internal workings as the smaller siblings like the GF5.
The main difference is that the Micro 4/3s systems use the same mount, whereas Sony has A-mount and E-mount.
well… I’d love to see some glass in that space that’s easier to clean, so I don’t get dust on the sensor that often when changing lenses.
I like this idea.
If it gets at least the JPeg/Raw IQ from the A99, an EVF of newest generation, improved high ISO due to skipping the TL mirror, improved video skills over the A99, no WL flash delay, and bigger and faster buffer then it already will be a killer.
New tech also means new naming scheme, just as how OVF alpha names (Axxx) were replaced by two digit numbering (Alpha xx)
Transmissive mirror might be dead, but I pray that the engineers would develop a way to maintain the awesome burst speed inherent with this lineup
Wasn’t it obvious to everyone that the SLT like of cameras was dead the second that the a99 was announced? I mean… From looking at the model name of the a99. Was it not obvious that they couldn’t exactly release an a100 (given that the a100 was the name of their first DSLR in 2006).
I’m quite sure that the SLT line of cameras, named with the letter a followed by a 2 digit number after the a, is now complete.
The next line of SONY cameras will most likely be named with an a followed by a 1 digit number, or an a followed by a 4 digit number. Or… Maybe they’ll do both!
It would actually bring their naming closer in line with what a company like Nikon does. With the D4 being their flagship pro camera, and the D7100 being their top of the line prosumer camera.
I, for one, would love to see SONY launch an a1 (or a1x if they wanted to also toss a letter from the alphabet onto the end of their model name in order to make it sound more pro) with a best-in-class optical viewfinder, a higher than 24 MP sensor, and a hotshoe accessory style EVF like the RX1 has, for those times that you want the benefits of an EVF on a professional, weather sealed, magnesium alloy body with a built in vertical grip for balance and heft, and to match with the heavier A-Mount glass. The a1 could be even more differentiated from Nikon and Canon’s offerings if it had a square sensor, say 36x36mm, or at least 30x30mm, and it provided you with crop modes for shooting in different aspect ratios, combined with optical viewfinder masks for the OVF as well as digital black bars for the EVF (or LCD on the camera’s back during live view operation). Such a camera would have phase detection AF sensors on the sensor as well as contrast detect AF for use during live view, or EVF operation and a traditional phase detect system for autofocus while using the OVF. It would be a game changer. It would woo professional shooters over from both the Nikon and Canon camps. And I’d pre-order it the second they announced it!
Alongside that new camera line, they could launch an a1000 or NEX9 if they want to continue with that godawful NEX operating system. And it could be a mirrorless full frame camera, that accepts both A-Mount and E-Mount lenses and offered only a built in EVF.
That said. I know they likely won’t consider putting a big gorgeous pentaprism and mirror box and big, beautiful optical viewfinder into a camera ever again. I just really wish that they would. Cause I’ve shot with the a99, and I find its EVF to be, well, not quite ready to replace an OVF for professional work. I actually just bought another full frame body yesterday! (an a900)
I am very curious to see what 2014 will bring. But in the meantime, I’ve got jobs to shoot. My SONY a850 as well as this new/old a900 will be my workhorses for this year!
Notethat a camera with a square sensor has no need for vertical grip. The sensor will crop vertical rectagle for you.
An awesome burst speed would be great for sure!
But… Wasn’t it obvious to everyone that the SLT like of cameras was dead the second that the a99 was announced? I mean… From looking at the model name of the a99. Was it not obvious that they couldn’t exactly release an a100 (given that the a100 was the name of their first DSLR in 2006).
I’m quite sure that the SLT line of cameras, named with the letter a followed by a 2 digit number after the a, is now complete.
The next line of SONY cameras will most likely be named with an a followed by a 1 digit number, or an a followed by a 4 digit number. Or… Maybe they’ll do both!
It would actually bring their naming closer in line with what a company like Nikon does. With the D4 being their flagship pro camera, and the D7100 being their top of the line prosumer camera.
I, for one, would love to see SONY launch an a1 (or a1x if they wanted to also toss a letter from the alphabet onto the end of their model name in order to make it sound more pro) with a best-in-class optical viewfinder, a higher than 24 MP sensor, and a hotshoe accessory style EVF like the RX1 has, for those times that you want the benefits of an EVF on a professional, weather sealed, magnesium alloy body with a built in vertical grip for balance and heft, and to match with the heavier A-Mount glass. The a1 could be even more differentiated from Nikon and Canon’s offerings if it had a square sensor, say 36x36mm, or at least 30x30mm, and it provided you with crop modes for shooting in different aspect ratios, combined with optical viewfinder masks for the OVF as well as digital black bars for the EVF (or LCD on the camera’s back during live view operation). Such a camera would have phase detection AF sensors on the sensor as well as contrast detect AF for use during live view, or EVF operation and a traditional phase detect system for autofocus while using the OVF. It would be a game changer. It would woo professional shooters over from both the Nikon and Canon camps. And I’d pre-order it the second they announced it!
Alongside that new camera line, they could launch an a1000 or NEX9 if they want to continue with that godawful NEX operating system. And it could be a mirrorless full frame camera, that accepts both A-Mount and E-Mount lenses and offered only a built in EVF.
That said. I know they likely won’t consider putting a big gorgeous pentaprism and mirror box and big, beautiful optical viewfinder into a camera ever again. I just really wish that they would. Cause I’ve shot with the a99, and I find its EVF to be, well, not quite ready to replace an OVF for professional work. I actually just bought another full frame body yesterday! (an a900)
I am very curious to see what 2014 will bring. But in the meantime, I’ve got jobs to shoot. My SONY a850 as well as this new/old a900 will be my workhorses for this year!
I understand that A- and E-mount will be all mirrorless in the future, and maybe even the two mounts will integrate into one.
I also understand the substantial reasons for Sony (and, I would think, Olympus) to go this route. The Canikon duopoly in DSLRs is simply too strong for any competitors to make a profitable business here. And things are getting worse … smartphones are now eating marketshare from system cameras as well as compact cameras … and fast. DSLR shipments overall was down some 25 pct. Q1 of 2013, and mirroeless shipmens was down more than 40 pct.
Of course, Sony will have to act on this.
However, I seriously doubt that Sony will be able to make a non-mirror AF-system to fully compete with AF in DSLRs. Therefore I fail to see Sony untying the Canikon dominance.
I share your concern.
For me AF performance is a key differentiator between A and E mount cameras.
And AF performance needs to be on par or better compared to C&N. Not just better that todays NEX.
I will be very nice if they pull it of, but “The goal is …” is not the same as succeding.
/E
How much faster does it need to be ?
Two times ? Four times ?
It’s not a question of speed as much as a matter of reliability, coverage, and flexibility. Sony’s AF system in the A99 covers the smallest area of the frame (except perhaps the Canon 6D, which has in my view a non-competitive AF system). While the AF-D on-sensor focus points increase the coverage area somewhat, there remains a huge gap in the middle of the frame. It is lacking in the overall number of more reliable cross sensors (the single line sensors too often are unable to focus reliably, if at all, on various subjects). The AF system does not offer the same type of configurability as better AF systems in competing cameras like the D800 and 5D Mk III. AF performance is not just about speed, which at this point in the development of the technology is not really the issue. It’s everything else about the system where Sony still has to play catch-up.
It has to be on par with, and not noticeable slower even in dimmer (indoor) conditions.
But the, on par with, will only retain current a-mount lens owners.
What does it need to have to attract new buyers?
4K video? Amazing High ISO? Amazing AF performance, Amazing price?
/E
But having a mirror provides absolutely no fundamental advantage for AF. It originally existed for OVF. Now EVF is a trade off with OVF with some people preferring each and EVF improving rapidly. Then the SLT allowed Sony to use existing AF sensors design, that’s a technology bridge to fill the gap as they develop sensor chips with equal or better AF on the chip. Once they do that, the absence of a mirror actually makes AF simpler and cheaper at any given level of quality. Also the AF sensor sites start receiving more light than they did on SLT and simpler geometry than they did with SLR or SLT.
First I’ve been waiting for A77 to come out and when it finally came the ISO was so bad that’s it was practically unusable.
Then I was waiting for the A99 and it turned out to hit all the wrong buttons for real photographers.
It’s always the same story with Sony, lots of marketing hype about cool features that actually mean next to nothing to real photographers in the real world.
And it’s always about waiting for the next big thing that will outshine Canon & Nikon, but it never comes, and meanwhile these two keep marching ahead.
Now I’m buying the 6D. On the features part it’s missing and geeks on the internet will keep writing about that, but in the real world the things that really matter work superbly.
Bye bye Sony, it was nice knowing, I just regret that I was so wrong. 🙂
…polo!
“lots of marketing hype about cool features that actually mean next to nothing to real photographers in the real world.”
This is a good point. Sony, please look to what made the a900/850 so great: Amazing sensor in a simple camera for pro or semi pro photographers. When pros use a camera the semi pros follow and down the chain. Having a kick ass flagship attracs pros and in turn adds validity to the brand. Market share and profits follow.
Pros don’t need bells whistles and video to make great images. They need a good sensor is a decent body, it’s not rocket science. Try actually talking to professionals instead of your home team of in house hobby photographers. You have the sensors and the capability so hop to it and spare the flavor of the day gimmicks,,,,, I don’t care what type of viewfinder: optical .evf/ or other, Just make it happen.
The fact Sony is sitting on that 36mp sensor that Nikon is literally mopping the industry floor with (d800) is a crying and embarrassing shame. Previous Sony a900 owners jump ship to buy Nikon with Sony sensor in d800: Epic Facepalm. People should be fired over that ball drop.
im just sitting here waiting for my FF NEX! 😀
maybe a FF NEX and FF Alpha might come out at the same time and share the same sensor? hopefully?
>maybe a FF NEX and FF Alpha might come out at the same time and share the same sensor? hopefully?
that would be bad idea… do you want sensor which is bad at handling light falling at large angles of incidence in your NEX?
maybe it woudl work like an underwater housing 🙂 that way you get you big body
take front face off nex bolt into housing and use Amount and have real grip from larger body
“Readers are welcome to share their thoughts about the how the new A-mount camera generation should be to really make a difference in the market against Canon-Nikon DSLR!” – Sony is already making a difference in the market! A new generation will see that, only the conservative crowd is still blind to see the advantages Sony technology already offers photographers. The deletion of the SLT mirror is a logical step forward since the mirror is only used for AF purposes. The AF functionality ‘on sensor’ will make the mirror redundant. Mirrorless is the Sony future I believe, for APS-C and FX. I think Sony will keep developing two lines of interchangeable lens mirrorless camera’s, one full frame Alpha line for demanding pro’s and enthusiasts and the APS-C NEX line with models up to enthusiast level in a lower price range. I believe the RX line will exclusively carry on with high level fixed lens prime and zoom camera’s. May be a waterproof and or shock proof RX tough high end may be introduced?
I agree. Sony have been making better cameras than Nikon and Canon for a while, not that you’d know it reading sales-sponsored sites like Dpreview.
The blind worship of Canon is particularly shameful considering the relatively inferior performance of their sensors and the relative lack of innovation in technology or philosophy. The SLT design restores the speed and quietness of rangefinder shooting to photography, the tilt screen and full-time peaking and focus magnification bring unmatched of levels of shooting control.
Sony’s optics usually test better than Canon too, although the fanboys don’t want to believe it.
To be precise, SLT design has absolutely nothing to do with tilt screen. Nikon and Canon do not put tilt screens on their pro models, as they are considered too fragile by pros. Please note that for the rare situations that angle viewing is needed e.g. for macro work there are optical angle viewfinders often with extra magnification. I have one like that made by Minolta. Works very well on my A700 and A900.
The only thing that SLT implies is EVF i.e. you cannot have OVF in SLT design. Most pros hate that too, as they prefer the high quality 100% viefinder.
The major benefit of SLT design is the ability to use PDAF for video. But this is of no use to still photographers.
+ 1
I keep wanting to like the a99’s EVF but every time I pick one up I just feel like it’s a lesser camera when compared to an a850 or a900. I actually just bought another a900 body yesterday, for this year’s shooting season.
I hope the EVF of tomorrow will satisfy this pro.
I came from the a900 and was not impressed at first by the a99. But after using the a99 for a few months I have to say it is the BOMB! EVF I cannot live without anymore, Focus peaking and Focus Magnifier are indispensable tools for critical focus. Plus the DR in the shadows pits the a900 to shame! I cant wait to see Sony’s new cameras in 2014!
I came from the a900 and was not impressed at first by the a99. But after using the a99 for a few months I have to say it is the BOMB! EVF I cannot live without anymore, Focus peaking and Focus Magnifier are indispensable tools for critical focus. Plus the DR in the shadows pits the a900 to shame! I cant wait to see Sony’s new cameras in 2014!
Same here. For me nothing beats the A900 viewfinder.
There seem to be broadly two opposing schools of thought:
EVF proponents insists that EVF allows them to see live the results of the changes in the settings as they make them before taking the photo + allows them to see the result after photo is taken. The mental model here is of a user sitting in front of his Photoshop screen and manipulating a photo.
OVF traditionalists want to see the object they are photographing as it really looks, so they can frame it. They also value the little button that will close the aperture, so they can assess DOF. They know from experience what the results of the photo will be for the settings they’ve chosen. This is how photographers trained on film SLRs would work. If they rarely need to check results, they will use the LCD display. The mental model here is – I see the world, frame it and apply a set of rules (setting) for which I know the outcome.
In other words the EVF users want to see the supposed output, whereas OVF users want to see the unadulterated input.
For me personally the problem with EVF is that output is not a thrughful representation of reality due to EVF limitations with contrasty objects e.g. in full sunshine. The relative contrasts are skewed and the colors are distorted. And this effect is much worse for people wearing glasses due to more light entering EVF from the back. It is funny in landscape photography how EVF changes what it shows you as you change the lens from pointing slightly downwards to slightly upwards.
Well… There is one thing that beats the a900 viewfinder. The Pentax 67 viewfinder!
One thing I’ve never understood is why, when SONY is moving to EVFs to replace OVFs, did they leave the size of the EVF similar in size to a 35mm camera’s OVF?
I’d consider EVF if it gave me a view that was larger than an OVF and made it easy to check critical focus WITHOUT having to zoom in or use focus peaking. And… Wouldn’t it be cheaper to manufacture the EVF screen too, since they wouldn’t have to pack so many megapixels into a tiny surface area?
I say give us a GAINT HUMP on top of the 2014 A-Mount camera! Something like this one would be fine with me: http://www.pentaconsix.com/e66_01.jpg
A bigger view is always better!
If we speak about EVF, then angular FOV in viewfinder has nothing to do with its size. Actually, shorter focal length of ocular = more angular FOV.
Sony could do even better: a zoom ocular EVF!
OVFs are so cool so I don’t even have to turn camera on, I have or%%%sms just with looking into it.
This is an often perpetuated myth. The original patents as well as pretty much all the promotional material promotes other features of the SLT design before video AF. In fact, the original patents don’t mention video at all, only LV and speed benefits.
One reason you don’t find tilt screens on Canon and Nikon pro models is indeed the notion of their users that it could break. I have yet to see one break on a Sony camera, so let’s just call that a bit of prejudice, catered to by the makers. But the usefulness is also much broader than you projected there, especially for cameras that have good and fast LV. And that’s where all Nikon and Canon DSLR’s are lacking too. Thus indeed for those cameras, the usefulness is more compromised.
About 95% of my photos are shot using the tilted screen. I find working at waist level, as we did with most medium format film cameras, is more stable than working at eye level.
“Please note that for the rare situations that angle viewing is needed e.g. for macro work there are optical angle viewfinders often with extra magnification.”
You don’t shoot indoor sports much do you?
I love that I can hold the a77 at waist level and see the tilted screen and still have full AF speed.
“Live view is only for macro” is a ‘lie’ that C&N needs to push, because their design cannot handle action!
/E
+1
There’s no blind worship to Canon. Yes, Sony sensor tech is more advanced in Dynamic range. I’ve had and used all top notch Sony APS-C and FF sony cameras including a77/a99 and find an optical VF cameras to be faster to operate and more practical in use in all kinds of light, especially when it comes to battery life (up to 2000 shots on the 5Dmk3, vs 600 shots on a99 per battery) and don’t get me started on EVF wake up time. Canon does a lot of things right. You have to be blind not to see it.
EVF is great but needs lots of tuning to make it as useful and fast as the optical solution. There is room for both optical and EVF cameras. I vote for a quick EVF camera that is intuitive, simplistic in operation and displays everything you need to set up with a push of a button, has QUICK access to EVF modes (Camera settings on/off, manual EVF brightness /exposure lock for tough lighting condition like working against light sources). A complete up to date flash system is also welcome. a99 was trying to please videographers and was a major let down for serious photographers (long EVF black out, wake up time and the above mentioned)
+1
well, I don’t quite believed that Sony is withdrawing from A mount system.. which play as a niche player at the moment though.. if Sony is seriously considering playing big hand, you need to please the customers by producing what they needs, not what you need to sell ;P .. somehow A99 is a good camera, but in my opinion, Sony was comparatively rather conservative in putting best of best technology into the flagship (coz I believe A99 could have “better” equipment from Sony’s R&D team)..
I’m not a tech guy.. so donno how much impact of removing translucent mirror to the system.. I do care about the performance of EVF, bionz processor and focus speed (and accuracy of course), etc.. so to me, this news is not very much meaningful, coz removing the mirror is not necessarily related to better performance, better picture quality compared to existing A-mount cameras (though we do expect such a boost).. what we need is better EVF, better focusing system, better image engine, and more lens choice
Good news in bad times…I hope they will break the Canikon dominance with good products neither with cheap cameras & lenses nor with boaster equipments. The Fuji X-Pro 2 will be a very good camera with a lot of good lenses. The upcoming Nex-7n has to beat it!
Keep Dreaming.
Sony users are always worried about other brands and beating them. Meanwhile, in the Nikon & Canon camps they are having friendly debates and teaching each other about photography.
Sony has seen more people jump ship than the Titanic.
Well, I guess these cameras will feature fully software predictive AF (I shew the link already).
The link you showed says it can be done. Why do you think Sony is smart enough to do it?
“They are working on technology that will outshine the competitors for early release next year.”
Maybe technology, but it’s not the technology alone that has kept Canon and Nikon ahead of Sony until now. As long as Sony (!!! – and not just rumour sites such as this one!) doesn’t unroll a clear roadmap, makes a trustworthy commitment to the long term future of the A mount, stops dropping important features from one camera generation to the next and this way builds confidence with users, they will always stay behind. Even if they do all this, it will take considearble time until customers have the confidence. I’m talking not about 1 or 2 years here, this will rather take in the range of 5 to 10 years. I wish Sony shareholders would understand this.
Agreed!
Well said. But there needs to be a little more said.
> As long as Sony doesn’t unroll a clear roadmap, makes a trustworthy commitment to the long term future of the A mount, stops dropping important features from one camera generation to the next and this way builds confidence with users, they will always stay behind.
The issue is simple: they didn’t gain market share and with a relatively flat market (3% gain in DSLR shipments last year), the only way you sell more is to take sales away from competitors. Sony bet big on SLT and it didn’t change anything in terms of market share. Thus, the real issue is that Sony needs to make Alpha cameras that have a clear reason for users to buy it over Canon/Nikon. The legacy factor is a big problem here. The longer the duopoly goes on, the more people get emotionally locked into lenses and accessories. Thus, I’d say that not only does Sony have to be clear about what they’re doing and their commitment to it, but whatever the change is it must be dramatic and compelling.
> Even if they do all this, it will take considearble time until customers have the confidence. I’m talking not about 1 or 2 years here, this will rather take in the range of 5 to 10 years.
Well, another switch in the Alpha direction won’t help here. If they abandon SLT then that just speaks to trusting their commitment, doesn’t it? You are quite correct that it will take time to build back the trust that whatever is next is not just another test shot to see if it sticks, but something that Sony actually sees as a long-term product future.
And then there’s NEX. It’s a tricky path they walk if they continue to make APS Alpha mount cameras. If this Big New Thing that replaces SLT is so big and there are APS cameras using it, it tends to render NEX less desirable and harder to market. Consider this: let’s say that they go completely mirrorless in Alpha and change the sensor to three-layer (non Bayer) ala Foveon. By not doing three-layer in NEX you create an up sell to Alpha, but you do so by essentially saying “NEX < Alpha". That's always a tough marketing proposition, and the usual answer is to establish pricing differential.
Perhaps they'll surprise me, but it still feels to me that Sony is still walking randomly around trying to find the "right" thing that makes them competitive with Canon/Nikon, and relying upon tech gimmicks to do that. In the end, tech gimmicks can often be useful, but the results have to be more than the sum of the parts to really get people's attention, and that hasn't happened yet with Sony Alpha, IMHO. They came much closer with NEX in that respect.
I can’t help but wonder if there is internal pressure at Sony to drop the A mount/Alpha series all together. Fact is, they’re not gaining much headway with consumer/enthusiasts or pros relative to the great Canon-Nikon duopoly. Meanwhile, the NEX series plays to their strengths (advanced technology, miniaturization), can be complementary to a user’s existing DSLR system (as a second or walk-around camera, or through the use of adapters), and it’s an area where they have some measure of a clear lead (arguably: best/largest sensor, best EVF, smallest body). If they create a small-body FF NEX, they will have done something that nobody else in the market has managed to do other than Leica (FF ILC in a small package).
Counter balancing this might be the pride Sony feels regarding the Minolta legacy, and a desire not to abandon Alpha users (or to concede defeat in such a high profile manner).
Pure speculation on my part, and yes, I’m wearing my fire-retardent garments.
Unlikelely already for one reason:
It would highly undermine trust in the E mount too. Even if successful now, a maker that drops a mount completely like that, will find much less people willing to invest into its other mount(s).
Olympus is facing a similar dilemma but was strongly helped by Panasonic (which had a very short DSLR adventure too, but let’s ignore that for a second) to gain trust in the µ4/3 project. Plus Olympus still promises to bring a follow up to the E5.
People still cant read plain english… sigh
Its going to be a mirrorless a-mount.
No idea if it will be FF or Crop.
If i were Sony, i would not even want to release a mirrorless e-mount.
Will see the response of the mirrorless a-mount, stablize the tech behind it.
Then release a mirrorless a+e mount.
That is THE logical approach.
I do hope they would keep the cost down now, since they do not have any more mirrors or moving parts.
If they could use the new vacant space and put in a new type IBIS that improves 1-2 stop, it would be awesome.
Or even go dual bionz to make things snappy.
Or provide more memory slots.
Double the EVF screen with 5million dot resolution! (dreaming haha)
But please do not increase any more megapixels….24-36MP is more than enough…
IQ matters.
Wifi, GPS.
The more Mp the better for the IQ
Thats foolish.
New tech will make better iq and more mp.
A stacked sensor will allow 4x the pixels of the same pixel size.
You cannot continue to improve image guality unless you improve resolution.Resolution is wuality.
What you call good enough now will not be good dnough as the standards increase.
Not too long ago 3.3 mp was good enough and people just like you argued we dont need 6mp.
And they were just as stubborn then as you are now.
Show me the 3.3mp camera with iq as good as todays 24 and 36 mp cameras.
Furthermore to many people like myself 36mp is not even close tl good enough.
If you want a realy good 24 megapixel camera the new tech will produce entry level and cell phone cameras that will far exceed youre expectations. In the meantime the rest of us can buy real cameras.
More megapixel for what? More noise? Worse ISO?
Only benefit of any more MP over 36 are useless to most masses.
Unless u are looking to print photos that are wall/building sizes.
Go compare D600 and D800.
A mount cameras are not going to be bought by “most masses”. Nor are the top end NEXes. They are bought by the kind of user that may well want to make a few big framed prints to put up on the wall.
The kind of user who may want to make ultra-detailed stack-focus macro shots, or very detailed landscapes or city views.
I think very high resolution sensors and lenses are just what this market will like.
I agree
If there’s new tech that would dramatically improve resolution, any raise to MP is not a problem.
But from the looks of the recent sensors they have released, i do not see how are they going to improve further.
Even sony also gave up on a78 saying there isnt any improvement, is enough proof.
For your benefit, check out the comparison below:
http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Nikon_D600/D600_vs_D800_noise_JPEG.shtml
Non normalized output and OOC jpegs. Humor me some more.
The noise between the two at a given output size is equal, detail is not as the 36MP sensor can pull more detail out of the same scene and same lens. That’s all one needs to know.
oh really?
http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Nikon_D600/D600_vs_D800_noise_RAW.shtml
Does not matter to me, since i only print a4 size posters.
Results from D600 24MP does way better than a D800 36MP on that size.
Yes, really, more non normalized output.
Look, FF sensor X is noisier when printed at A1 than FF sensor Y printed at A2!
No kidding.
NT
Were talking new tech not some recent sensor.
The new capabilities will exceed current.
24mp is only good for up to 20×14″ max.
Look around you are those the largest pictures you see anywhere?
If thats as big as pictures get in your world than 24mp is good enough and you are right. Otherwise your full of crap.
Even if you do indeed live in a 20″x14″ world others don’t and they need more resolution.
Do you know you just replied to yourself? Are you arguing with yourself?
“24mp is only good for up to 20×14″ max.”
At which ISO?
And below that?
The industry standard for a print is 300 ppi.
Iso has nothing to do with it.
That is the maximum size industry acceptable print that csn be made from 24mp.
Neither Sony nor most of SAR understands the photography world. Photography isn’t about electronic gadgets and new whizbang gimmicks in a body. It’s about lenses, accessory support, and service. It’s about the system and people’s confidence the system will get the job done no matter what. For instance, knowing you don’t need an oddball adapter just to stick a pocket wizard on your camera or knowing your images won’t have light source ghosting images.
There is not one single piece of gadget that will sway buyers. It’s the total sum of all the dottings of the “i’s” and crossing of the T’s. Sony will never get close to 2nd place in DSLRs. Their best bet is to focus on NEX, where they have a significant head start.
WRONG
Agree, this only applies to the small Pro market.
Most buying their 1st DSLR could care less.
“RIGHT”
Awesome, I think I got that one! I’ll pick next;
“INNOVATION”
(hint, the correct antonym starts with CA and ends with NON)
+1
+1
+2
Moving to short-flange mount means that Chinese manufacturers can make full AF adaptors for every lens system including Canikon. Get the PDAF right, and SONY will have the best system camera on the market.
Yeah but again it’s not about the camera.. it’s about the system. And unless more Pro’s start using Sony cameras, they won’t recommend Sony to newbies either…
What makes you think Sony ever will enable PDAF with some noname chinese adaptors?
To gain market share, by extending the system, and without themselves breaking patent law. Also, on the basis that they’ve done it already with CDAF.
For example, I want to use a Canon TS-E 24, or Nikon 14-24 for which there are no equivalents in A-mount. But I also want the larger EVF with peaking and magnified view for critical focus in a SONY body.
Now I can combine them.
Patent law? It there one which forces Sony to support all abilites of the camera with some 3rd party stuff?
In past, for Sigma A-mount lenses, they added some software so that Sigma lenses wouldn’t accurately on Sony bodies to make customers think that Sigma lenses are inferior.
What is photography about? That is an interesting question. I do not believe it can be answered by talking about gear. I don’t bleive that there is anyone in the world that judge which camera and lens produced a printed image in a blinded test. I think photography is about this wonderful and beautiful world and it’s subjects. It is about relating to others and getting them to express themselves freely. Then if we are luckly we can capture these wonderful moments that are magical. I just took some family pictures of my new 5 month old grand daughter over the course of 4 days. I used natural light and FF, aspc and m4/3 and a variety of lenses. But the pictures that stole the show was one afternoon where her face was filled with smiles and laughter. Her expressions were magical and lived my heart and soul. So the best camera at that moment was the one in my hand was an RX100. She was the show the nautral light in my living room from a west windom not the gear that made the day and that is photgraphy.
“The Alpha line is not going away. They are working on technology that will outshine the competitors for early release next year.”
Sorry to be pedantic but can you get your source to specifically state “A-mount” please, not a hybrid, not an adapter, but NATIVE A-MOUNT as is on SLT models right now.
The “Alpha line” could just refer to NEX and E-mount with an adapter which are also Alpha.
More MP does not always equate to better IQ.
Its the sensor size that matters. e.g 24MP FF > 36MP Crop
I think AF might be great in the upcoming camera.
Which mainly focus on AF-D that was introduced in a99 that use it with dual AF
Using its Depth Map Assist AF technology to offer predictive autofocus.
The camera will always be capturing phase detection data from its AF sensor, and both color and depth information from its main sensor.
This will provide excellent object tracking capabilities that will most likely beat both canikon.
Furthermore if they could make the AF cover the whole screen like 500 AF points…
It will really be crazy, imagine always on, full object tracking that even 1DX or D4 cant achieve.
If it could get 95% in focus, think they could already have my money.
That is probably the main reason why they went with a-mount, no tech exist for e-mount yet. And probably never will.
Last is the available lens for AF-D…. hope it will be resolved eventually…
Sony—- these are phony fans. They want you to make nothing more than 24 and 36mp cameras so Canon and Nikon can continue to rule the camera world.
And how exactly do you know that 24MP FF is better than 36MP crop? Last time I checked, there hasn’t been a single 36MP crop camera on the market.
My prediction. They will remove the mirror on the next FF alpha. Then they wil move the sensor so its more like the sensor for E-Mount
You cannot change the flange distance and maintain compatibility with the current A-mount lenses.
Yes you can! LA-EA1! 😉
Sensor can be moved (it already does for IBIS and anti-dust measures), this changes “flange distance”.
I thought the SLT-line was already supposed to outshine CANON and NIKON.
It does; isnt that why we’re all here?
I have been saving for months to get the A99 with the free Flash and VG. I already have the A77 (which I love)and it is my main camera for all my pro work. (Weddings, Sports, Seniors in the Studio, etc.) I also have an A580 and an A700 that I rarely use. I am confused now, Do I get the A99 or wait for the new product line. I need a full frame camera.
I’d be selling it all and looking at two new/used full frame bodies from Canon/Nikon. It’ll make your professional life easier with the added bonus of removing any doubt about your current and future investments.
Forget the technology, it’s the SERVICE that matters. You need professional backup from the manufacturer, you need to buy/hire kit from anywhere. CaNikon give you this, Sony do not.
Imagine dropping a Sony lens the day before a wedding, where are you going to hire a replacement one from? See the point?
+10000! amen
You are right. I think, “outshining” concerns consumer market only, it’s APS-C size, to be precise.
I think you answered you own question right there. you LOVE the a77, and you NEED full frame? well, there you go. (unless you want to change systems altogether, as mentioned above)
Get a used a900 for around $1200. The best used value in digital camera history. Sell it for more than you bought it for in a year or two.
Yup. The a900 will be a collector’s item in 10-15 years. Stock up on ’em. I bought one yesterday!
Florida ‘Sony Style’ stores still had brand new a900’s in stock last time I was there… Not too many people “Collecting” them it looks like….
Imagine how much Canon’s last OVF DSLR will cost!
that’s an even better idea! guess what – I payed 600 euro’s for a used a850! a900/a850 together with a77 combined and you’ll have all bases pretty covered.
However you still lack the service and ability to quickly buy/hire replacements at short notice.
While I applaud people who earn money from their Sony full frame, I wouldn’t be using them for the reasons I stated earlier.
Rumor has it that the Houston Galleria Sony Store still has NIB A900’s for $1599.
(713) 439-7086
I kinda want to get one. Even though I own no A-mount lenses. Its such a sexy looking camera!
Canon Jack who shoots Nikon wants to buy a Sony.
Someone help this guy; he’s got a terminal case of camera lust.
LOL
Yeah, I’ll laugh at myself here too. LOL.
I think it’s pretty safe to say that ALL of us, if we’re on SAR, have “a terminal case of camera lust”!!!
please dont ruin the ff-nex with an hybrid a-e mount. there are adpters for a mount lenses.
The following text is not very standardized, generated by google translation:
Some years ago, Sony released the integrated phase detection pixels sensor patent, later, with the advent of the Nikon 1 series cameras, we see the real effect of this technology.
Soon, Canon and Sony in the actual product applications of the technology. sony application of the technology the widest range of effects are the best. Multiple products, multiple product lines are applied to the technology, such as the A99, NEX5R NEX6.
The SLT technology retired, creating a strong sense of evolution. SLR and SLT same point is to the phase focus camera. For sony, mirrorless camera with reliable and high-speed focusing performance, which means that the SLT task has been completed.
I guess, Sony’s new products will be widely used phase focusing pixels.
When a camera from a minimum of optics, composed by the best electronic devices, this is Sony Style.
No pentaprism, no reflectors, rely more on electronic camera technology program, was the most prominent Sony’s accumulated technology.
That’s a tricky statement, since Sony’s α line is easily outshining Canon and Nikon with its E-Mount section on the mirrorless market, but this doesn’t say anything about A-Mount.
Exactly. Which is why I would prefer an unambiguous statement from the source, rather than “Alpha line” which covers SLT and NEX mounts. 😉
How often Sony already wanted to outshine Canon and Nikon? I’m always very sceptical with these claims. Even if there is a really good camera – what’s about the system as a whole and the trust of the user that it will last.
The industry reached a point where IQ is already such high that it’s not enough to make little improvements to change the game. An example: The Sony sensor in the Nikon D800 is clearly better than the one in the Canon 5D III. Actually, that’s true for the whole DSLR line of the both companies at the moment. Nevertheless, Canon is doing relatively well in DSLR sales (see Q1 financials). Nikon does not outshine Canon because in most cricumstances the theoretical better IQ of the Nikons is practically not relevant.
So what is Sony thinking will outshine the others? To remove the mirror and mirrorbox? Sure, this will be the future. But it’s nothing to write home about.
Indeed, Canon is doing better with sensors that are considered inferior to Nikon. Again, this seems to be the *system* issue. There have been numerous complaints over the past few years about Nikon service responsiveness, price of parts, repair costs, the fact that Nikon will not sell parts to third party repairers. And also the D600 dust disaster. These little things add up and convert into lost sales.
What Sony need to do with this “Next Generation” dslr is to
1) Get their pricing policy right. An A99 is nearly over 3 TIMES the cost of of an A77, Is it 3 times the camera ?, it costs more than a Nikon D800. The A99 is too expensive for what it is, and was marketed as their “professional” camera rather than a “prosumer” type. It’s like a full frame A77 with a few little additions, Sony could have pushed harder in tech here.
2) Market properly. Make a really good camera for photographers,better than Canon/ Nikon. If you’re serious about video….buy a video camera. If in doubt Sony, ask the people who buy your equipment, they’ll tell you what to make, how to price.
3) Get their lens pricing policy right. Why do Sony lenses cost the same or more than lenses that have VR onboard ?, they should be cheaper to make. Sony 500mm F4 £12,000, Sigma 500mm F4.5 £3,500 !, you could buy 3 of the Sigmas and still have change.
Can sources please tell, if that new “technology” is ready for FF AF-performance!
Or in other words: is it a switch in APS-C and A99 will be placeholder for 2-3 more years or is it a switch in the whole line (APS-C and FF)???
What about the following scenario:
1) NEX line with E mount = APS-C sensor:
– approx. 5 models as today
– compact size, lenses designed for APS-C image field
– hybrid AF sufficiently fast for most applications
– adaptors for A-mount lenses
2) Alpha line with A-mount = FF sensor:
– 2-3 models
– better ergonomics
– SLT for fast autofocus as long as mirrorless AF is too slow for (semi-)proffesionals
– 1 – 2 mirroless models with APS-C sensor for entry / mid level as long as FF is still too expensive
In the long term, I think APS-C sensor in the alpha line makes no sense.
I also think a FF NEX is not really attractive as you loose the compactness with FF lenses.
spot on. and slt is less of a problem on ff since low light capability is great anyway.
I do not think that mirror-less A-mount will be supported by people. For example, Pentax K-01 did not sell well because it was a K-mount (Pentax’s DSLR mount) big body. Even people does not like “large” lens in size for the NEX system due to stabilization function in lenses.
A major benefit to make an A-mount mirror-less body is much easier to develop lenses for a FF-sensor and Sony has lots of good A-mount lenses for a FF-sensor. However, new Zeiss lenses for the NEX are design for an APS-C sensor. I think that it implies that there will be no FF sensor NEX with an E-mount. If Sony will introduce the FF-NEX with E-mount, people bought Zeiss lenses would not be happy and most if not all E-mount lenses have been designed for APS-C sensor. Therefore, my prediction is A-mount will be for FF-sensor mirror-less and an E-mount for APS-C sensor.
Personally, I’m very excited about this. I see slt as having been a success – it’s definitely had a very positive impact on my photography. I was an evf sceptic, but I wouldn’t buy an apsc dslr again.
Losing the mirror removes the noise issues, so assuming af is up to scratch (and I don’t think sony would take a risk if it wasn’t), it could just be a game changer.
“and I don’t think sony would take a risk if it wasn’t”.
Your faith in Sony management is laudable considering their disastrous decisions and apparent lack of strategy. 😀
Meh – forgot about the a77 release firmware. Ok, optimistic provided they don’t rush it to the market…
I was going to say ‘wipe that silly little grin off your face’ but then I realized its involuntary. My condolances.
You do realise that you are looking in a mirror, right?
Its not a mirror per say, its a translucent mirror. I can see right through it.
Can we just learn to play the same game better, with more consistency, compatibility?
Sports teams don’t change the game. They refine themselves to play the existing game more efficiently. The first rule is to ensure all new players get along nicely with the legacy players, in perfect unison. They don’t reinvent themselves every time some new hotshot comes along. Sony needs to stop that, before they decide we don’t need tripod sockets any more.
Sports teams don’t change the game. They refine themselves to play the existing game more efficiently. The first rule is to ensure all new players get along nicely with the legacy players, in perfect unison. They don’t reinvent themselves every time some new hotshot comes along. Sony needs to stop that, before they decide we don’t need tripod sockets any more.
They’ll decide that we do need a new tripod socket, but add a video feature to it that makes the socket almost, but not quite, “standard”.
LOL
LOL
They outsourced marketing department to North Korea.
What are the odds on a video centric offering? Surely 4K is in the pipeline.
Sony needs to realize it’s not about electronic gadgets or “technology”, but rather about the system, and if the piece of equipment they sell / customers buy can fullfill the needs of the customer.
Sony has to show commitment to the users which it clearly has not by abandoning iISO hotshoe. We don’t want to use adapters! We want systems that work. I don’t want to have to worry about if the next camera I buy will have a stabilized body because my lenses aren’t stabilized… I don’t want to have to worry about if the flash and lenses I buy will be worthless when my a77 breaks in 4 years! The current Sony “system” lineup is a total mess imo…
Sony: we don’t want cameras with new technology for the sake of being new technology. I would say that the new technology must be there FOR A CLEAR AND TO-CUSTOMERS-COMMUNICATED PURPOSE. CaNikon doesn’t sell cameras because their customers want to act cool saying “oh look, my mirror is transluscent, yours is not!”… drop the childish gadget behaviour and deliver great TOOLS for photography. What matters in photography? Image quality, reliability, handling, amongst others… E.g. the wife of my friend wanted to film my friends (her husbands) PhD dissertation with her Nex-5N… it got overheated and had to be turned off!!! Guess her disappointment!!! Reliability? yeah right… That’s the failure to capture the once-in-a-lifetime (litteraly!) moment…
At least my Canon-using friends love C because they have good quality lenses for good prices. That is lenses that are not “fast & expensive” (people can’t afford), nor “slow & cheap” (people take shitty pictures). But lenses with a good balance, a.k.a Minoltas Beercan series. Whenever I ask these people “why not Sony?” … I can’t argue against this one. Because that’s the reality.
Sony: I believe you need to attract more professionals A.N.D. retail salespeople (photo retail salespeople are often photo professionals) to use your cameras. As it stands, I’ve only met 1 (ONE!) salesman EVER in ANY photo store that used Sony equipment. He was the one who persuaded me into Sony (in 2009). These people have an ENORMOUS inpact on what cameras new people purchase… Send out free cameras for MANY to use e.g.! You also M.U.S.T. start advertizing / promoting your cameras. I have at least N.E.V.E.R. seen an alpha commercial here in Sweden.
Your cameras must last at least 4 years I would say. I’ve read on forums about recent Sony cams failing after 1-2 years…. THAT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. I’m sorry I don’t remember what cameras, but I think I read it on Flickr in some Sony groups.
Your cameras & lenses must be reasonably priced. You’ve managed to price the a99 way out, e.g. considering the system mess you have at the moment. Contratulations!
Sony, you cannot treat the photo business like the TV, Audio or Phone business. This is more similar to the gaming business… Because it’s about the WHOLE SYSTEM, not just the camera. Will you sell consoles if there are no good games for the console? Of course not!
I don’t know how the Sony service is the rest of the world, but here in Sweden it’s baaaaaad… I’ve contacted Sony support several times and never got responses. Wonderful! Does that create happy customers?
Sensor dust prevention that close when changing lens is surely most welcome.
*this* game is not about technology.
SONY need Leaders like Dr. Kaufmann or Mr. K 小林博文
Otherwise it shall be just another lost game, like Ax00, SLT etc..
Nikon and Canon have been laughing at SONY since 2006.. 🙁
bhahahAHASASSA try to outshine a 1dx! even without a proper lens system you will fail 😉 for sony is better to focus on nex system alone … leave pro system to pro brand canon… sorry sony but you will ever fail if you not focus on tiny mirrorless
its 11 years sony is trying to outperform canon, and they are near an end of their line 🙂 nice try sony :-p
U are saying the same things people said about apple years back when they are on the verge of dying. Look where are they now?
Nothing is absolute.
Times may be changing roo fast for u.
You can stick with Konica who believed film was everything and pro and digital format is crap. Look where are they now? Filed for bankruptcy.
Would you be happy if Sony announced they are shutting down their camera business? I mean, would this bring you joy?
Regardless of what Sony is going to do I think the previous rumor of SLT is sure to hit the sales of Sony cameras this year. Not sure if releasing this news so soon was a good idea for Alpha mount.
Sony Alpha Rumors is largely responsible for the decline in the Sony Brand.
That’s a weight I wouldnt want to bear.
So how to beat CaNikon? Hmm they could buy the market and underprice their competition but unfortunately they don’t have the financial power to do so! The only other option is to come up with a killer feature while closing all other bigger gaps (AF Coverage; High Iso; Lenses). Given Sony’s current positioning I assume that they will focus on the sensor and try to come up with something revolutionary (and we have read some intersting rumors on SAR)! Getting the mirror out of the way to use the sensors full potential makes then only sense…
I´m thinking a WELL implemented foveon like sensor.
Perhaps even a well-implemented foveon like sensor that’s… Square.
A 36x36mm camera would be a game changer. And if A-Mount lenses only cover an image circle of say 30x30mm I’d still like to see the sensor be 36x36mm, and be used for 2×3 aspect ratio capture. A nice benefit would be that you could shoot vertical pictures without twisting the camera sideways (thereby altering the angle of your already perfectly positioned bounce flash).
And… Maybe you could adapt amazing medium format lenses like the 80mm f/2.0 Zeiss planar for the Contax 645AF system. It was an excellent AF lens. It’s the reason why half the professional wedding and portrait photographers who still shoot film have opted to do so! Having an adapter that allows pros to use that lens on a digital body, while maintaining AF, but adding far more focus points than the Contax 645 body ever did… That’d be a game changer for pros seeking the ultimate in pleasing bokeh and high levels of microcontrast.
Being able to compose a 1×1 aspect ratio square image though… That’d be a real game changer that the younger generation of photographers who are growing up with Instagram would instantly gravitate towards.
It’d be a win win.
I agree
You do know that you can rotate Sony flash head too, right? But I think only for the latest model. Canikon’s can’t do that. But a square 36×36 sensor is a cool idea. Multi-aspect FF sensor, how cool is that. Goodbye vertical grip.
Patent with number 2013-57769 could be the reason for the switch…
If this is the case, then there will be small drop of light coming to sensor. It may have benefit of better focusing if both CPU and software are capable to take advantage of all the data coming from main sensor. But NIKON’s DSLRs will still have an edge in high ISO.
Sony needs to realize it’s not about electronic gadgets or “technology”, but rather about the system, and if the piece of equipment they sell / customers buy can fullfill the needs of the customer.
Sony has to show commitment to the users which it clearly has not by abandoning iISO hotshoe. We don’t want to use adapters! We want systems that work. I don’t want to have to worry about if the next camera I buy will have a stabilized body because my lenses aren’t stabilized… I don’t want to have to worry about if the flash and lenses I buy will be worthless when my a77 breaks in 4 years! The current Sony “system” lineup is a total mess imo…
Sony: we don’t want cameras with new technology for the sake of being new technology. I would say that the new technology must be there FOR A CLEAR AND TO-CUSTOMERS-COMMUNICATED PURPOSE. CaNikon doesn’t sell cameras because their customers want to act cool saying “oh look, my mirror is transluscent, yours is not!”… drop the childish gadget behaviour and deliver great TOOLS for photography. What matters in photography? Image quality, reliability, handling, amongst others… E.g. the wife of my friend wanted to film my friends (her husbands) PhD dissertation with her Nex-5N… it got overheated and had to be turned off!!! Guess her disappointment!!! Reliability? yeah right… That’s the failure to capture the once-in-a-lifetime (litteraly!) moment…
At least my Canon-using friends love C because they have good quality lenses for good prices. That is lenses that are not “fast & expensive” (people can’t afford), nor “slow & cheap” (people take shitty pictures). But lenses with a good balance, a.k.a Minoltas Beercan series. Whenever I ask these people “why not Sony?” … I can’t argue against this one. Because that’s the reality.
Current buyers will be better supported in the future with the new hot shoe. Abandoning loyalists? Well,20 plus years ago Canon ditched their old mount in favor of new EOS, look what they have now. If something has to be changed, do fast, don’t hesitate. About the overheating, every large sensor still photo oriented camera will do just that. They are not designed for long video recording. Get a proper video camera, Sony has a good reputation in videocam industry.
Because of the A-mount registry distance, the body will have to be DSLR big, no mirror means poor AF compared to other DSLR’s. Its the worst of both worlds. Good luck with that strategy.
I use my 5d3 for its superior AF and high ISO performance. My Nex5n and Xpro1 are walk around cameras, but there are far more misses with the mirrorless. I would never use them in critical shooting situations.
And of course all this “new” tech will come at a price, far more than Canon/Nikon equivalents judging by Sony’s recent offerings.
Pass.
The 5n and Xpro are CDAF. It’s clear that SONY obviously believe they can advance on-sensor PDAF sufficiently to compete or out-compete mirrored AF. It’s probable SONY’s cross-license agreement with Aptina comes into play here.
Zeiss Touit 🙂
http://blogs.zeiss.com/photo/en/?p=3518
So if Sony wants to outshine Canikon, does that mean they will also be releasing a giant pile of lenses? Oh, and actually producing those lenses at reasonable prices, with realistic availability and excellent quality control? Lets be honest, yes the Sony strategy with cameras has been a bit confusing and in needed of focus, but their lens catalogue, while better than before still holds them back. They need to up their game big time and not just talk. Slapping a Zeiss badge on a 50/1.4 and charging prices others charge for an F1.2 lens just doesn’t work (sure you can charge a modest premium, but you price to high make a laughing stock out of yourself). Where is the 400/2.8 or 600/4? Why does the 500/4 or new 400mm zoom not have stabilization and yet costs so much more than the amazing canon and nikon counterparts? Where are tilt/shift lenses or a top notch 35/1.4 (just get zeiss to make the legendary 35/1.4 in ZA mount, with minimal redesigns). While you’re at it up the macro game (good god, if you really have a collaboration with Zeiss and not just an empty branding agreement then use it!!!!), and stop releasing weirdo lenses for the E-mount. Instead have a small line of slower pancake lenses and a separate line of bigger, faster no compromise lenses for E-mount. Putting together a top notch lens catalogue isn’t rocket science but it does require you to hire some photographers and let them have some decision-making powers instead of just the electronics guys. Camera’s alone don’t make photography. I love my NEX-6 for it’s portability and gene IQ and I’m hoping that Sony will turn things around but more oft than not as of late, Sony announcements have left me shaking my head. I do want an FF, and the nikon D600 is starting to look good but I’m hoping that Sony will really give me something that will make me reconsider in 2014.
+1
(to a Zeiss 35mm f/1.4 SSM)
That lens is higher on my wish list than replacing my a850 is! But… That’s cause I just bought an a900!
Hi Wedding Photographer,
Would like to see examples of your work with some technical notes! I shoot an 850, but with mostly 24-70cz and 70-200G, here in Kelowna.
Found your website – you do great work!
The images haven’t been stripped of their metadata. You can save them to your desktop and then look at the settings I used in their Metadata if you like.
You’ll always see Flash “did not fire” mind you… Cause I use off camera flashes, triggered by radio transmitters.
Speaking of which… Hey SONY! It’d be nice if those of use who use radio transmitters to trigger off camera flashes could have the camera write some kind of parameter into the Flash metadata tag other than “did not fire”.
Ha!
If you’re curious what lenses I use…
24-70mm f/2.8 Zeiss
70-210mm f/4.0 Minolta
20mm f/1.8 Sigma
35mm f/2 Minolta
50mm f/1.4 Minolta
85mm f/1.4 Zeiss
100mm Macro f/2.8 Minolta
500mm Reflex f/8.0 Minolta
And… Many of the images in the “portraits” section on my website were shot with:
16-80mm f/3.5-4.5 Zeiss
But I’ve since sold it after moving to full frame.
Why not the new Sigma 35mm F1.4 which will be in stores in Aplha mount version with SSM in a month or so. The CaNikon versions of the lens got raving reviews and it would be most likely less than half the price of the Zeiss 35mm F1.4 if it ever happens in the A mount.
Yup. That one’s on my radar for sure.
The problem is with the demand. Remember when Sigma said they won’t make 30mm for A-mount because the sells of the older version was not good? Sony facing the same problem with their own mount. That’s why Zeiss lenses are expensive, they were produced in a small quantity. Besides the Zeiss name, of course. Having said that, Sony must find a way to solve this problem. They can make cheap lenses for the newbies, at least they have something buy.
Hi Andrea:
what i am guess is , sony is working on some new OVF tech in next Q1or Q2, is that right?
I remember it’s also be mentioned in SAR early this year.
More A-mount lenses and lighting accessories > new camera specs
The sudden change in roadmap must mean Sony has some breakthrough in improving on sensor AF and total technological integration like Wi-fi, GPS, Apps, processor, touch screen etc.
Don’t people read or read the whole article or they just took one word and reacted. I thought the gosh dawn article was quite clear. All mighty!
However, I think it is a fantastic news if it’s true. It’s what I have been waiting for. Sony, it’s time to take the lead!!! But don’t raise the price on the lenses.
People dismissed me several months ago when I said that a 4k future was coming soon – well, it’s here according to this engaget article: http://www.engadget.com/2013/04/12/seiki-50-inch-4k-1300/
No rocket scientist is needed to why Sony doens’t make profit with Sonys pricing… The TVs are just the ultimate example.
But you’re not the brightest either if you don’t take production cost into account. And you don’t have insight on the production cost.
There’s a reason why only 1 or 2 makers are making a profit in the television market. It’s overly crowded and margins are ultra thin if non existent for some that try to gain market share by smoking out the others (with shallow pockets by now), selling at or below cost price from time to time.
Rob
I too said 4k AND 8k is on its way.
8k was approved as a new standard on the SAME DAY as 4k.
As soon as they get us all switched to 4k they will will begin switching us to 8k.
The technology is already there.
Not everybody has the hardware to edit and display 8k video. Even 2k video will be alive a little longer IMO.
“stop releasing weirdo lenses for the E-mount. Instead have a small line of slower pancake lenses and a separate line of bigger, faster no compromise lenses for E-mount.”
Yes. Totally agree. Love my NEX-7, but where, for example, is the 24mm e-mount lens which DOESN’T cost $1200? (an outrageous price for what it is and what it can do)
Don’t be crazy – there’s always extra to be paid for when a new product comes in. This product does smack of something too good to be true, so some caution needs to be shown.
Megapixels vs Image Quality.
The debate may be mute.
Stacked sensors will allow 4x the pixels of the same size as bayer plus better image quality.
Some people like myself consider resolution to be the holly grail.
Other consider low light and iq the the holly grail.
Both points have validity and at times we all need both.
IF sony is making a game changer it CANNOT ignore either argument.
I hope and suspect that the new gamechanger will do both or that there will be a gamechanger for each side.
Please sony no matter how many misguided commentors say no more megapixels give us at least one supper high mp camera.
Then you can give these other guys whatever they want and I will have no objection.
+1
+2 – want higher rez for my landscape work.
Sony wants to shine bright like a diamond?
I guess if you polish dog sh*t long enough, it shines too. 🙂
…and yada, yada, yada, that’s how Canon was born.
You lost me a “yada”…
Well, lets find it. Here; help me lift up that typeface – it might have fallen under there.
Sadly I sense an epic fail on the way. If Sony wants to outshine Nikon and Canon they aren’t going to do it by pumping out another new technology that will have a high price… no Nikon or Canon folks will change ships for that. If they want to outshine them do it on price, unlike Nikon Sony has other businesses to provide revenue and could sell at or below variable cost which would outshine Nikon… but yet another new tech thrown against the wall in the hope that it sticks is getting old.
Well, if its a fail, at LEAST it will be an Epic Fail.
You buy the popcorn, I’ll get the soda.
I’ll bring the beer. If this happens I dont think soda’s gonna cut it.
Is this guy for real?
Reminds me of that cyperpunk
Sony should stay alive; even canon/nikon customers will benefit, if only because these companies will keep looking over their shoulder…
‘This’ guy?
Hi, Andrea
if Sony could move AF on sensor and remove pellice mirror, no other mechanics would be left apart from fixed distance between flange and sensor. It allows to create independently module of sensor+flange (like Ricoh) and body with electronics, ergonomics, blah-blah-blah…
You could choose the body you like and attach standard sensor-flange module to it.
Than we should not hesitate regarding the type of mount, because Sony could manufacture modules (with A or E mount) independently of bodies and supply on demand.
Could you ask your sources whether Sony is going this way?
If they could do that, why limit yourself to A and E mounts… If you were going down that road why not make Nikon, Canon, and whatever else modules so your camera would be unlimited… That would be the only thing that would pull in the entrenched Nikon and Canon owners.
Sure seems like more people want Sony to curl up and die than want them to succeed.
Its no wonder our society is destroying itself day by day when humanity is so negative.
What I say to each and every person posting a comment about “Sony Fail” – just leave the brand alone if it is so terrible to you. What is this, pick on Sony decade? If they dont make something that lives up to your standards, get lost!
It’s much better than it used to be here.
CaNikon understands the photography business, be it pro, enthusiasts. Sony understands electronics. Unless Sony acquires market knowledge and understanding, they will never catch up regardless of tremendous (or not) features it may bring to its cameras and lenses.
Everything is possible. In TV business, Sony was the king until Samsung taken over. One right product and you control the market. Sometimes you create a new market, walkman for example. NEX camera is that about right product. It just need a little more touch to make it even better.
NEX and A-line are very different systems! Alphas goal is to outshine Canon and Nikon? HOW is that possible? Have not read one reasonabe word yet….
Sony have one chance and one chance only to stay in the camera business and that is NEX! It doesn’t matter that a wedding photogrpher wants an A900 successor! I understand that but Sony is in no position to do that.
Have read so many wise guys here on SAR today but stop dreaming some of you!!!
The responses used to always lead up to OVF Vs. EVF… Now it looks like it is going to be Nex vs. Alpha… Toy camera Nex users who purchased their Nex at Best Buy are so silly to think even if the Alpha becomes mirrorless, there is no need for it because Nex is mirrorless… Silly Silly Nex users…
If you have to adapt lenses, its a no go… So this will not be a Nex with an Alpha adaptor (EX: VG900 Silly Nex Users)
Nex users should stay out of Alpha topics if they obviously know nothing at all as to why professionals would want an alpha body over a Nex…. (They are totally lost if they think “Mirrorless” in both cameras specs = no need for one or the other… The next thing Nex users will say is “They both take pictures so there is no need for both”…
Especially when nobody has 100% confirmed it will be mirrorless anyway….
Sony should develop a good PDAF on sensor and place a nice speedbooster like lens in the mirror box to compete with Canon and Nikon DSLRs. Granted the telephotos folks won’t like it but most folks would love to have a 1-stop faster A-mount lens without paying extra.
>and place a nice speedbooster
what for, holy cow… Speedboster is for ppl who don’t have FF sensor.
The empty space in the mirrorless A type cameras could be used to house a built-in shift and tilt mechanism on which the sensor is mounted, thereby making all lenses capable of shift and tilt functions.
Now this is a really beautiful idea! Not only this, but they could probably have the space to dramatically improve the anti-shake capability.
I don’t think it can benefits IS. IS mechanism works behind the sensor, or side, or anywhere but in front of it(where SLT mirror sits). Unless they use new type IS, optical based, that works in front of a sensor. Unlikely.
Anyone,
I was hoping that Sony would announce a 48mp camera by early 2013, but see no sign of this. That is the reason that I held on to my A-mount lens collection even after moving from A900 to Nikon D800E last year. But now that 15 months have passed, I’m thinking that I should now abandon hopes that Sony will produce a competitive DSLR, and just sell everything and get a 50-60mp medium format back for my Hasselblad system. In fact I’m thinking that I should sell my A-mount lenses now before word gets out about Sony’s lack of a roadmap and prices decline. At the moment, sale of a A-mount lens collection will just cover the cost of a used high-megapixel back.
Am I wrong?
==Doug
Your right Douglas Boyd. They’ve left their run way to late, I have a ‘blad, D800e but have held onto my A900 + CZ lenses just ‘in case’ but its way too long ago now,I dont beleive these rumours. I doubt many pros are still waiting and have moved on to better supported camera systems they can depend on. The A99 to me was simply a flashy stopgap camera, I want more resolution and higher quality. If Sony released a simple hi end DSLR with a 50mpxl sensor shooting 16bit RAW + 4k video, I’d be straight in to it. The mirrorless thing really only advantages video but if it was amazing and perfect I wouldnt have a problem with it, as it is I dont really care, the viewfinder in the A900 was terrific, if it aint broke…
It’s a sad joke to continually see the ‘rumours’ re a hi res FF ‘A’ camera circulate here, always a year or so away and never coming to realisation. Sony have chosen to go with the amateur nex and AA system cameras as theres more money in it. If it decided to get back into the pro area it has to committ to it and develop more than just a camera. A tilt sensor? great idea if they actually made a tilt lens, Nikon make a complete range of them! – this site should be renamed Sony dreams.
It would be great if Sony came out with great lenses and priced them competitively against other as well as their own brands and mounts but they have to be very careful…imagine pricing new lenses that are great quality at a low price? That would reduce the prices of our current lenses…One scenario of why I think Sony keeps pricing so high, so that current owners of lenses do not see a sudden huge depreciation and then really jump ship to a non-Sony system.
The statement is not valid, which company would not want to be the “best”. They didn’t announce officially that they would out play the big team, but jus told to their own company.
It is like ur boss telling u to be better than competitor.( which is common sense ) any one will tell u the same thing.. But whether can it outplay or not is another thing.
This is great news! Sony should push the envelope on technology. DSLR’s are now a decade old and not much has changed. Would be great if Sony A-mount went full mirrorless with the feel of an Android or iPhone in it’s menu system. While I’m sad to see the death of SLT, I’m happy I picked up an a57 for a low price. Can’t wait to see what Sony will do.
Anyone who thinks SLT could not outshine Conikon or the new tech will not do, must look at SLT-a57 and its rating on amazon as well as really use it.
Can anyone translate this from gibberish to English? Google Translate isnt helping here.
I am completely confident that Sony can finally overtake Cannon and Nikon as a leading camera maker, or at the least, cause a sizable deficit in their camera sales. While Canon and Nikon continue to offer amazing cameras year after year that Sony’s SLT camera line can’t seem to ever gain traction, even with great innovations outside of the SLT negatives, the reality is, those innovations are simply means to get around the limitations of having a flipping mirror inside. While you get great autofocus speeds and the brightness of pentaprism optical viewfinders without the electronic grain from EVFs, that will soon be overshadowed by companies that look outside the box for new camera solutions rather than trying to modernize an old way of taking pictures. I definitely see the future being with mirrorless cameras. And not specifically the mirrorless cameras we see nowadays, that cater to those that want smaller options versus DSLRs, but mirrorless cameras that also come in more DSLR-like body size proportions but with much less weight since the mirrorbox and pentaprism alone add a fair amount to the total body weight amount. As far as the loss of a mirror for future Sony a mount cameras, I completely see a need to remain that market, even when offering mirrorless entries in an area filled with DSLR units since there will always be people out there that just prefer the size and handling that a DSLR body can offer. I’d suggest though, that Sony sticks to one mount only so that they can pool all their resources into one line of lenses. Though the a mount lens lineup can comfortably fill most uses, there is still a severe lack in more specialized options like offering faster primes and zooms. But maintaining two lines of bodies with more DSLR-like proportions, and then the NEX size range for more portability I feel, will always be necessary well into the future of photography, since as I said, as camera tech will continue to come and go, there will always be people that just simply prefer the comfort a larger body can offer.
This could be almost a nex forum instead of Alpha
NEX is Alpha.
It could be, because it is; as AlphaGuy says, NEX is Alpha.
1) INTERCHANGEABLE LENS CAMERAS – SONY ALPHA LINE
A) Sony Alpha DSLR/DSLT
B) Sony Alpha NEX
2) POINT AND SHOOT CAMERAS – SONY CYBERSHOT LINE
After talking with some ‘friends’ tonight, these are the CanonJack Predictions:
New 2014 Sony Alpha A-mount Mirrorless Line = Sony A9, A8, A7, A5, and A3
Sony A9 is a Professional Full Frame, SLR Form Factor, Magnesium Alloy, Mirrorless 54 Megapixel Camera with a 4.7 Million Dot Large and Bright EVF, IBIS with Pitch Adjust for Sensor Based Tilt Shift. 12 FPS, 4K Video Recording, Sensor Based PDAF + CDAF
Sony A8 is a Professional Full Frame, SLR Form Factor, Mag Alloy, Mirrorless 54 Megapixel Camera with a 4.7 Million Dot Large and Bright EVF, IBIS with Pitch Adjust for Sensor Based Tilt Shift. 10 FPS, 4K Video Recording, Sensor Based PDAF + CDAF, slightly less features than A9
Sony A7 is an Enthusiast APS-C, SLR Form Factor, Plastic + Mag Alloy, Mirrorless 36 Megapixel Camera with a 4.7 Million Dot EVF, IBIS. 8 FPS, HD Video, Sensor Based PDAF + CDAF
Sony A5 is an Intermediate APS-C, Small SLR Form Factor, Plastic, Mirrorless 36 Megapixel Camera with a 4.7 Million Dot EVF, IBIS. 8 FPS, HD Video, Sensor Based PDAF + CDAF
Sony A3 is an Entry Level APS-C, Compact SLR Form Factor, Plastic, Mirrorless 24 Megapixel Camera with a 2.3 Million Dot EVF, IBIS. 5 FPS, HD Video, Sensor Based CDAF
Cameras will all have a built in dust reduction system. When lenses are changed, a modified shutter closes to protect the sensor. On the leading edge of the shutter is a very fine brush, as well. With every actuation, the system gently ‘sweeps’ the sensor with static to remove dust.
Thoughts?
Whoops…A5 and A7 should both be Full Frame, too. Just the A3 is APS-C. Eventually the Alpha AX Series will be all FF, and the NEX Series will be APS-C.
1. 54 Mp is not enough. Look, compacts have used 1.5 micron pixel pitch for years, that would make 384 Mp on FF.
2. You forgot to add “clean 1024000 ISO”
Who is 54mp not enough for? 99% of photos are consumed via LCDs. I own and operate a 24″ wide format printer and despite that 54mp would be overkill for 95% of what I shoot professionally/personally.
For 2 years or so, the a900 was the highest resolution 35mm slr camera but it’ safe to say it did not outsell the lower resolution 5d2 or 7d.
Higher resolution would be nice but dynamic range, sharpness, high iso performance and speed are probably more important for the majority of users. When I need higher resolution, I stitch.
+1 on what to prefer over higher resolution. I definitely want a cam to use in other than bright sunlight
“New Alpha line goal is to outshine Canon and Nikon in early 2014!”
Sony, why you need to wait until 2014??? Do it now. Do it today!!! How?… very easy, cut your lens and cameras at half price and prepare to witness the revolution!
🙂
Actually this wouldnt work. They’d only see marginally higher sales. http://economics.about.com/cs/micfrohelp/a/arc_elasticity.htm People desire a good value, but if equipment is too cheap, it wont sell. Not to mention, they’d be selling far below cost, so…
“but if equipment is too cheap, it wont sell.”
I never heard something like this before, so the people will not buy the A99 or A77 at half price? Wow, crazy photography world. LOL!
Yes, photography world is crazy. Almost every manufacturer makes bridge p&s in form factor which has its roots in film DSLRs. Even despite bridge p&s don’t have either of mirror or film…
Actually in economic, such thing exists.
Actually it would work. There is a huge pent up demand for a cheap dSLR, it’s why the A200 sold well, it undercut the Canon 1000D and Nikon D40 by a wide margin.
There is equally a huge demand for a cheap full frame, hence the success of the D600 and failure of the A99.
Before people say it, SLT has clearly failed because Sony are dumping it. If SLT cameras were selling well, they’d be producing them.
Non sequitur. They are supposedly dropping them for something technically superior. Possibly even cheaper to fabricate, no one knows, but margins are mighty important too.
Nowhere does this prove SLT’s are a fail or aren’t selling well. It just means they think they can improve.
Utter nonsense. They are dropping them because they don’t sell.
I’ll take the lack of a decent rebuttal as sign that it has sinked in you’re assuming again.
Porsche dropped the 997 because they didn’t sell. Alphaguy logics in a nutshell.
While like my Sony SLT camera, I think it’s sort of like a DLP TV in that it’s a start of something but not the ultimate solution. I think they need to take the technology in their NEX camera’s and port it into a camera body with a DSLR type view finder. This will give them back the light lost by using a SLT and overcome the other problem of shooting in the daytime with a LCD viewer only like on the NEX.
Oh man… Google NEX-6, NEX-7, FDA-EV1S
Nice – That proves that it’s possible to implement an electronic view finder without a mirror. Would like to have that extra light back on the sensor as that would extend low light performance.
As far as I know, the semi-transparent mirror was there to provide the phase-detection auto focus (PDAF) sensor with light… not the electronic viewfinder.
Umm I am saving up to upgrade from A77 to A99. I guess I better wait. If no more APS-C SLT from Sony. Then it could be Sony going for FF SLT in the pro range and NEX hybrid e/a mount for the entry and mid range APS-C camers (I think).
I wouldn’t make any further investment in Sony until mid-2014 if I were you. 😉
Looks like rumor sites is a new way to build up hype and test expectations instead of releasing a road map. I remember the “rumor” which depicted 102 AF points in a99:)))) I think most of us remember those youtube videos with a99 shooting away at a staged boxing match in JPEG!!!! The thing barely manages to use central zone in dim light with a noticeable black out between shots in Raw mode – is this the speed SLT was supposed to deliver. A joke and a slap on the face of a camera! Sony pull your head out of your butt and make a good camera before everyone wakes up and it will be too late!
I think that after 250 comments to this article a consensus seems to be emerging, which can be summarised as follows:
1. Ditching SLT is a good decision. It looks like SLT was only a transient technology and significant technical problems remain that proved to be difficult to solve after 3 years of evolution.
2. Return to standard mirror and OVF is a possibility – doing an A900 replacement with the current A99 sensor would be a good start. However, the chances of this move succeeding financially are slim in view of mature and entrenched CaNikon competition.
3. Going mirrorless with A-series of cameras would lower significantly manufacturing costs and thus looks attractive. The move is predicated on development of effective PDAF on the main picture sensor. This is far from certain.
4. A-series cameras have to be positioned carefully, so they differentiate from NEX and do not steal sales from it. For this reason E-mount lenses should not be used and kept only for NEX.
5. This leaves only the A-mount lenses readily available for A-series mirrorless cameras, at least in the medium term. However, A-mount standard has a very large flange distance, which creates a number of issues. The bodies for A-mount lenses will be bulkier than otherwise required. The A-mount lenses are more expensive to manufacture than lenses for shorter flange distance – due to the need for retrofocus design in many of them – often extra 3 or 2 pieces of glass are needed.
6. In the long term a new mount is needed for mirrorless cameras that would have shorter flange distance and larger diameter of the throat which can accomodate easily full format sensor an perhaps also a square 36mm sensor. No screw type autofocus either. On this occasion, Sony may decide to licence the use of the mount to third party lens manufacturers to facilitate quick ramp up of the lens lineup. The A-mount lenses will be accomodated through an adapter. The new mount would allow design of less bulky cameras, use of large, square sensors. The lenses themselves will be easier to design and cheaper to manuafacture.
7. In summary, there are good reasons to keep A-mount in the medium term if A-series is to continue as we are SR5 rumored that it will. There are also good technical resons to replace A-mount with a new mount designed specifically for FF mirrorless cameras. Mount change was done before successfully by Minolta and Canon. It is possible, if played right and the benefits are large and obvious.
Sony have E mount that is exactly what you describe in point 6. I am not sure if it is meant to have square sensor, it is good enough for full frame though.
So what is the point of having A mount camera if AF is to be on the image sensor itself? Why not produce a motorized full frame adapter without mirror I.e. EA4
Point 6.
Sony already have a full frame NEX.
Admin, have you heard any rumors regarding the 70-200/2.8 lens? Previously, you predicted an update for this lens earlier in the year.
Is th
is the end for future updates for the A77? I mean, focus on new camera models, no more improved updates.
Other than lens database updates, I don’t see anything coming from Sony for the A77. Their firmware guys always appear to be working on the next camera release.
Sony don’t have the best track record for firmware updates on the A-mount.
What is the point of producing native A mount camera? Is not it much better to have Leica sized NEX body with stabilized sensor. May be both crop and full frame variants. Then we need A mount adapter with motor, no mirror and large enough opening for full frame lenses.
I do not understand why Sony would product Pentax like K-01 poor quality camera.
Leica camera is almost as big as DSLR. NEX = small.
What would I like to see, extreme wishlist that would wipe Canon/Nikon with the floor:
1. Reinvent the flash system.
Many photographers would like to have wi-fi networked color adjustable flashes that could be remote controlled by the camera itself and/or a remote.
2. Internal storage
Not that cards are not fun, but are also kind of scary and one of the most common cause of (costly) camera malfunctions. 128GB could be seriously nice and all some photographers will actually need. To supplement that Sony cameras should support USB 3 and Thunderbolt (google it if you don’t have a new Mac)
3. Support better video codecs.
It would be nice to be able to choose between MPEG2, Adobe CinemaDNG, Avid DNXhD and ProRes.
4. Apps
What? While the current NEX apps seem a little underwhelming for the pro shooter, I still think apps are the future and a way to get more out of your camera without the current hassle of hacking its ROM.
5. Mind blowing sensors. We know Sony has the patents for doing this. The new cameras should “see” better than the human eye and shoot in ISO 6,400 without any noticeable noise.
6. In camera RAW basic editing
Could save a bunch of time on long laptopless rides and also help with 7
7. Internet
This is a serious pro feature, especially for newspaper photographers who now need to send photos immediately for online web publication. So your camera should be able to process RAW, export just the file you want to JPEG and upload it using e-mail, facebook and/or common file transfer services partnering with Sony for this.
8. Total Remote control and monitor
From a PC, Mac and iPhone/Android/WindowsPhone apps. It will blow my clients minds to be able to see the video that I’m shooting on their iPhone 5 even if they had to go to the bathroom.
9. Much faster buffering and writing of images
Unfortunately, still a problem with Sony even with faster cards.
10. Bundle them with a lens adapter of your choice
So you could work with your favorite lenses when switching
Editor, a note on the proper English for the last sentence of the paragraph: all three times you write “the dead” it should be “the death” instead. Cheers! Thanks for the blog.
Outshine? Unless Sony release a mirrorless ff camera.
The VG900 is a mirrorless FF camera.
the question is: sony dops in 2013 the mirrorless technology for a technology coming 2014. 2014: sales are not what they should be. sony drops in 2015 the 2014 techonolgy for a 2016 technology. 2017: sales are not what they should be. sony drops… sony drops… lime a young child with not satisfying toys… should I spend MY hard earnes money on sony equipment? I have to ask the sony spy placed at Canikon for their in 2013 / 2014 coming and by sony knew products if I should buy Canikon in case sony let drop a market for the x time
best regards from switzerland 01.05.2013 20:09
I seem to remember not too long ago Sony emphasizing that they were committed to their SLT technology. It’s a big reason I chose to buy the A99. Now, they’re dumping it? If this happens, I’ll never buy another Sony product again.
PS Where’s the firmware upgrade? Being able to shoot bracketed HDR in RAW would be NICE, since nikon allows it with their camera at the same price point, what’s the big deal with Sony not allowing it?
btw, I don’t mean manual bracketing. I mean the camera automated bracketing. Why the hell can’t Sony upgrade their firmware to make the A99 comparable with the Nikon D800 in HDR functionality?
Hybrid viewfinder only solution to better Cannikon:
with a sensor with enough AF pixels in it you do not need a traslucent mirror,but an electronic view, from a traslucent or direct from a sensor, does not better Cannikon mirror cameras, in opinion of many. If you add a pentaprism (pentamirror)you can have an hybrid viewfinder, a la Fuji, that would have many advantages, like the possibility to have an histogram in the viewfinder or keep an(electronic)view when shooting fast burst with mirror up, or during video, combined with the advantages of a mirror viewfinder: that would be superior.
When I read about this rumor, I remember the hundred of thousands ISO rumor. It’s better to keep expectations low.
se sony riuscisse a colmare il gap con canon nikon già sarebbe un buon inizio
I shoot Sony for one reason, my investment in a-mount glass. Given Sony’s current offerings, if I didn’t have all that glass I’d move to Nikon instantly. What do I want? A Pro camera to replace my A900. The A99 is NOT it… not even close. Here’s what I want:
Fully weatherproofed, mirror/pentaprism, NO EVF, larger sensor without AA filter, noiseless high ISO, live view, WiFi and GPS, export RAW as DNG, add tiff export, add ProPhotoRGB colour space, wireless tethering with live view to computer or iPad, eliminate all video and put money into better still camera, stick with buttons and dials – menus suck, eliminate all modes but A, S and M and put money into better still camera.
This is supposed to be a pro camera. What do pros need with scenes, program mode and all the other gimmicks?
The number 1 thing Sony needs to start doing is to listen to their pro customers, NOT their designers. Bells and whistles don’t sell a pro camera, REAL, USABLE pro features do.
I think your list (for most points, reasonable) would look a lot better without insane “noiseless high ISO”.
Even Nikon D4 has 1080p video… Why would Sony remove video? Someone else considers WiFi and gps gimmicks.
We are talking about innovation here. WiFi and GPS are proven, mature innovations. WiFi means never having to take your card out or tether your camera. It makes downloading images faster and easier. GPS is a boon for nature, landscape and news photographers because geotagging is important but time consuming. That said, I could live without either if I could just get a good pro camera. As for video, it’s something I just can’t figure out. I don’t care what other cameras offer it. If I want to shoot video I’ll but a good video camera. Because of the way still and video images are shot, good cameras are different for each. As for “noiseless high ISO,” what I mean is better control of noise at high ISOs. Hope that clears things up.
Judging from the current state of technology, complete removal of mirrors of all kinds relying solely on sensor-based PDAF and expect it to outperform competitors with traditional PDAF is unlikely, short of a major breakthrough.
On an EOS M, if there is some vertical detail to phase-detect, the lens would at least initially move in the correct direction. With NEX-5R it is still trying the other direction before sweeping/hunting just like CDAF, so I wonder if the sensor PDAF pixels are contributing much, or how.
Going back to optical finder is just as unlikely. In my opinion SLT was a sound strategy because 1, the market needs something different, and 2, being able to PDAF during video is something Sony’s competitors are not able to do and a niche that Sony could own. The strategy was sound and all that was required was execution.
So, I am confounded. Relying on sensor PDAF only? Nikon 1 could do that too, going back to optical VF? That is like removing the only remaining differentiator from Canon and Nikon. This “removal of SLT technology” must turn out to be a complete surprise.
But what if sony goes mirror again but with a badass trick to outline nikon and canaon? They are a big company maybe the invented the fastest autofocs on erth or organic sensor xD evtually they whill ust fight canikon and punch them in the face and than you all cry becouse you sold your whole glass 😛 il stay with sony i really liked all the cameras and such and i think you can cry at the point where they really mess up, but right now im nothing more than interested in what they will create 🙂
If Sony want to outshine Canon & Nikon, maybe they should try keeping the same course over 12 month! As a Sony consumer, it is very frustrating to see them change their mind again and again. It is very annoying not to know with what kind of electronic gizmo they will replace truly useful tools. I fell in love with the A900-A850 range of products with their incredible viewfinder. Then I have been quite disappointed by the A77 and its EVF which can be quite nice for macro and such purposes but cannot compete with a great OVF like the A900-A850 have. I did not buy the A99 just because of that because I find it way too expensive for a camera that cannot give me a good view in challenging lighting conditions (concert photography for example). And now what? Another change? I really like my Sony gear but if I had to buy a new camera now, I could not find one that satisfies me in their current line of products… Very disappointing.
I really want to see A mount adapter-like body. An A mount lense attach to the front, and a CMOS/CCD combined with displayed attach to its back. An optional EVF attach to its head. Then the system could be very flexible. This is just like medium format camera but with more compatible size. That can bring brihgter to A mount I think. Thanks.