I was used with Kai ranting against Sony products (he didn’t do it with the A7-A7r). But he now killed the Nikon DF myth with this video. Just watch it!
This is interesting because it also supports the SAR poll. Only 19% want Sony to make a “retro styled” SLT/DSLR camera (Source: SAR POLL). And as far as I know from my sources the soon to be announced new A-mount cameras will keep the modern design (with some smaller improvements).
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My long standing opinion about what a camera should look like…
First desighn it strictly to be functional..
Then make it ergomic..
Then make it pretty…
In that order.
Retro is not all its cracked up to be. I sold my nex-6 got a fuji x-e1 while I save up for the A7 and now I am selling the fuji because I have to purchase a grip I don’t want because holding the camera is very awkward. The camera looks better and takes better jpegs than any sony nex camera I ever used but holding it without an additional grip sucks. Form should always be second after function.
The retro concept isn’t all that bad, it’s just that manufacturers badly execute it.
Even late model film cameras had some photographers wanting to go retro, for two reasons:
1. Smaller size
2. Simpler and more predictable operation (this is where mechanical dials come in – being able to set shooting parameters by feel, and knowing what the camera was going to do without having to turn it on).
Think Nikon F6 vs. Nikon FE, Canon EOS-1V vs. A-1, Minolta Maxxum 9 vs. XD-11. Even Leica made the MP because some (admittedly a tiny number) of photogs thought the M6TTL/M7 were a little too automated.
The Nikon Df fails at being a retro camera, though. It’s pretty much the same size as the D610 and the interface flaws Kai mentions (particularly the shutter speed dial and ISO dial) mean that you can’t trust its mechanical controls.
That doesn’t necessarily make the Df a bad camera, it’s just a camera that makes you wonder if Nikon couldn’t have done something better in those four years.
Basically, Kai had it right on the nose:
It should be smaller.
The shutter dial is too confusing.
The mode dial is too hard to use.
The “retro” lens ought to provide an aperture ring.
It should have a good screen for manual focus, or replaceable screens.
Stripping away video and leaving the other inane features (seriously? In camera fisheye effect?) Is just crazy.
It should have a better focusing system for the price.
IMO, Sony doesn’t need to play/join retro game. However, it should consider a departure from overly rounded/curvy and obese style that is DSLR form with modern, sleek and trim SLR form. I find a7 to follow that direction. However, I also feel that Sony missed an opportunity with not using this design theme on a3000. Should have launched a7/7r and followed it up with a3 (instead of a3000) with similar and miniaturized form.
And NEX replacements could all be axxxx cameras. For A-mount, the conventional DSLR form could stay, but not without a consistent and proper naming standard instead of throwing rhyming numbers for model name.
I agree. Also shooters that use alt/legacy/retro lenses already go with Sony.
Most people who care about aesthetics don’t use Sony camera’s. They likely also don’t respond to SAR polls either. The truth is there is a market for sexy camera’s. Fuji proved this. RX100 proved this. RX1 Proved this. Leica proved this.
I do care about aesthetics and I find the A77/99, NEX-7 and A7 quite sexy.
Leica lenses on Sony are far more stylish than anything offered by Fuji.
http://www.kenrockwell.com/sony/a7/D3S_0494-1200.jpg
Three cheers for Kai for not falling prey to retro-chic-nonsense.
SONY = MODERNITY and, while fulfilling ABBarry’s dream of function first, as it should, SONY’s cameras should express visually what they stand for technologically = MODERNITY, EXPERIMENTATION and SEEKING THE BEST FUTURE.
it might have taken nikon 4 too many year, certainly taken this guy 9 too many minutes.
Kai е машина!
Who gives a kite about what a guy who only like Leica said about anything any way.
I DO want a Sony retro camera, or at least something elegant and good looking. Shofar, there is nothing elegant from Sony…
Kai is so right in this case
Happy new year!
Retro design means different things to different people. Personally I would have preferred my A7r with a shutter speed dial (and ISo while we’re at it) instead of the stupid mode dial. You always know your setting this way without having to turn the camera on. The lack of a top shelf LCD is also problematic (one of the reasons I never liked the Canon Rebel series either). This is usability and function, especially if you like to shoot in manual. I wouldn’t expect a lot of Sony users to appreciate this though, since in general their cameras are more tech. That said, I think Kai is right on with the DF, it’s too much of a mix of classic and new design and seems to fail at both (unless you want the D4 sensor cheap). Despite loving my A7r, I still prefer to shoot with my x100 or older film cameras. It’s a more enjoyable experience.
When hold the A7 firmly, the shutter button at the top is somewhat “hard” to reach. It would be nice if it swaps the location with the front dial. I like the GH3 ergonomics (at least the handle part). Very comfortable to hold and shoot. I have Canon 5D II too, but I prefer GH3 grip.
Same here. Even though the grip is large enough to include my pinky, I actually need to move down a bit and go “pinky-less” in order to comfortably press the shutter release. This isn’t something I would complain about, but it is a funny observation.
Good Lord what a clunky beast that Nikon is. Make my NEX-7 seem even sexier and the Tri-Nav more ingenious.
Just out of curiosity … What is this “Nikon DF myth” which is supposedly killed by this video? It pokes some well deserved fun at the utterly stupid ad campaign for the Df for sure, but … What myth?
I am super happy with Sony design since nex-5, through 7 and to a7. This is just fantastic. Everyone of their models is perfectly thought out in terms of shape, form and button position. Even the awkward shutter button on a7 is fantastic once you use the camera a bit more.
In terms of looks NEX and RX ant the new a7 are marvelous pieces of industrial design.
Thank you team Sony
nick-con, that pronunciation of nikon really sounds comical.
Happy New Year!
Better than Neye-con – that just makes you sound like a dullard 😉
Happy new year to you & yours!
It is actually the correct pronunciation. Only in the USA and Canada do we call it “Neyecon”, everywhere else on earth including all other English speaking countries call it “Nickon”
Sony should thank Nikon.
If the Df had been better spec’d and priced, many people who have a collection of Nikon lenses (like myself) may well have bought it in place of the A7/7r.
So… Merry Christmas Sony, from Nikon 🙂
well said, Mars, I totally agree!
No doubt that the Df didn’t meet the expectations of some. However, you write that if the Df “had been better spec’d and priced” then it would have sold more…well, that is true for any camera or any item. If I increase specs and lower prices, it always makes the product more attractive!
The key is that to increase specs, Nikon would likely have needed to increase the price, not the other way around. Also we don’t know the engineering challenges and tradeoffs to increase those specs, and you don’t mention what specs you would like to see, so it’s all kind of a fantasy game.
Also, I do think the Df is doing better in sales than many critics think; keep in mind that Nikon didn’t expect this to sell in huge quantities anyway. And I do think the Sony A7/7r is not exactly flying off the shelves; there are already some specials on it, and it seems to be in stock everywhere. So the conventional wisdom that the Sony A7/7r is this radical hit while the Df is a dud is probably wrong. In fact, when all is said and done, the Df may generate more unit sales than the A7/r.
I do think the Df has its flaws, but it by no means is a bad camera, and most photographers would be lucky to have one.
I wonder when the Nikon, Fuji, and Canon rumor sites will start posting videos from reviewers who don’t like specific Sony cameras and Sony camera features.
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!!!!
I can never understand anything Kai says. His accent it too thick.
Huh? Kai speaks absolutely perfect and accent free British English. The other guy is a little hard to understand sometimes but Kai speaks perfectly.
Expertise? An entertainer? Enough already?
Most people in Japan say it as ‘knee’
Most people in the USA say it as ‘nigh’
Most people in Europe and the rest of the world say ‘nick’
BUT, and this is a very big but, it really DOESN’T MATTER how you say it.
Lighten up a little!
Kai may confuse something…..i bet the product Nikon wanted to imitate was the Nikon FA, which at that time was a huge flop in the market, though the Nikon engineers loved it themselves.
But damn, that Df is ugly…..
Wesley, simply straight to the point, well said.
agree 100% with Kai
Am I at Nikon rumor or SAR site? Why did SAR have to report Nikon product’s review?
Leica and Nikon baching seems far more sexy than Sonyproducts!
This may be subjective but Sony could really use some designing help.
Looking at how he holds the camera, what is myth he kill, again? 🙂