Sony A7rII with Leica Summicron tested by DSLRmagazine.
Digglloyd has the merit to have the guts and the skills to highlight both the Sony negatives (SAR article here) and the Sony positives: He just posted (article here) his final thoughts on the A7rII and also noticed one thing:
Something strange happened on my recent trip: I did not see any mis-focused images from the Sony A7R II. I mean, none. Try doing that with a Nikon D810 or Canon 5DS R with an autofocus lens—I have and never come close.
further:
The DSLR is looking like not just a dinosaur, but a lame dinosaur, given these advances. How long will CaNikon watch Sony advance without responding? The Sony A7R II makes outstanding images with low noise and excellent dynamic range at 42 megapixels that are always in focus. Notwithstanding some file quality limitations and disappointing 12-bit behavior in certain situations, nothing else can touch this track record of ultra-high hit rate. And it does so in a relatively compact form factor. I think it is a mistake to ‘diss’ the Sony A7RII for its faults, which most of the time either have a workaround (very careful exposure) and/or are unusual or rare. Trade that off against focus errors of all kinds, size and weight, etc. It’s a fair trade. When and if Sony can fix the few image quality issues, and perhaps add a bit more dynamic range with a Nikon D810 style ISO 64, it’s going to be very hard to argue in favor of any DSLR for 99% of shooters, including my workhorse Nikon D810.
Note: Full Diglloyd A7 Blog post article index here: diglloyd.com/topics/topic-SonyA7.html#BlogPosts
And here is a very long list of A7rII news and tests:
A7RII autofocus test: Commlite and Fotodiox Pro Adapters (SonyAlphaForum).
High speed burst shooting A7R2 not sorting correctly in LR (SonyAlphaForum).
A7RII Boston – Amazing dynamic range! (SonyAlphaForum).
A7RII SD card speed and continuous mode (SonyAlphaForum).
Sony a7Rii High ISO Interview Test 6400 to 25600 – RC Sailplanes (Learningvideo).
Test at Japanese DC.watch.
Spanish test by DSLRmagazine.
A7rII review by Simon Cocking.
Sony A7RII Children’s Clothing Line Photoshoot (SonyAlphaForum).
Shot using Silent Shutter and Continuos Bracket (-2,0,+2) at FredMiranda.
A7rII preorder list:
In USA: at Amazon, BHphoto, Adorama, SonyStore US, FocusCamera, Uniquephoto.
In Europe at Sony DE, UK, FR, IT, ES, NL, BE, CH, AT, SE, FI, NO, PT. Wex UK.
In Asia at Digitalrev, CameraPro.
A7rII case:
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112 Responses
Ironic that the picture above is with a MF only lens?
To be fair the article refers to the relative ease of achieving manual focus on the A7R II vs DSLRs. It wasn’t just about AF.
Yeah… but… it’s purrrrty
Maybe it was taken with a a7r2 with an AF lens… did that ever cross your mind?
That was posted August 22 already and cited by some to show that he is not entirely negative.
I think this just highlights that each and every ‘review’, even the more dispassionate technical ones, need to be considered with a pinch of scepticism.
Only the photographer himself can decide what is paramount, depending upon how they work and what they need, so many observations are irrelevant, and no camera is perfect so we must decide which are the flaws we can live with the easiest.
For me, it is no contest that the A7 series provides the best I could wish for and the A7RII with the A7S covers just about every scenario. I’m a happy man (although I won’t say no to a lower price…)!
Traffic driver.
Praise here…(traffic generated) then critique there… (traffic generated) and then a bit more of each for the next few months to drive more traffic. Nothing special about this post, really.
Reaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllly. I don’t think so. Man, these reviews are all over the place. Is it or isn’t it…make up your minds people!!!!
I’m sure he does, but when you start playing with advanced features like the settings for the “balanced emphasis/release priority/af priority”, etc. even the seasoned pro’s will be surprised. I fckn love A7Rii. Focus is spot on like the guy claims and small customizations like that actually do make a good deal of difference.
However, the shutter delay (no matter how minuscule) is still there. Most people won’t notice it, but my A77ii’s response is instant, so when I shoot them side by side, I still feel there’s the ever-so-slight shutter delay.
This shutter delay is the only thing I’m not too crazy on my A7ii, where it’s really noticeable to me. A7Rii is a noticeable improvement, but still not quite the A77ii speed. Just an FYI.
shutter delay is definitely noticeable and i’d still use a77ii for wildlife and sports
Which lenses are you getting shutter delay and what settings? Mine is very speedy, but when using A-Mounts stopped down it has some lag while waiting for the lens to stop down.
This is all with the G and CZ native FE glass.
I only tested with native FE glass. When the lag was that apparent, I didn’t bother with anything else. Saving for A99II.
I agree with you 100%. That shutter delay to me feels like a high end point-and-shoot camera I had 10 years ago. For some of the sports I shoot, the athlete would be out of the frame already.
A-mount still has the edge for sports in the land of Sony — no question there.
Diglloyd is the most trusted guy IMO when it comes to reviews , I don’t remember him saying anything bad about A7R II AF , all I remember is he doesn’t like the RAW files compression.
Yeah he’s the most trusted… if you don’t know the subject.
The a7rii is a complicated camera and people will get widely varying results.
It would be surprising if that was not the case.
Both Nikon & Canon offer clinics at major sporting events where *experienced world class shooters* get their kit calibrated and optimized for said event. The ludicrous nature of the internet, is listening to a reviewer (basically straight after his unboxing event) critiquing said kit. After 18 months, with a camera day in, day out, most professional operators have only scratched the surface of its customization.
I’ve read the entire Diglloyd review and found it to be logically done, comprehensive and fair. He is at times strident over issues like the lossy raw but later puts these and a couple other negatives into perspective in the final summary. Much of the negative hype that’s been generated from his assessments are items that have been cherry picked by trolls to spread negativity. You can’t hold that against him, he sums up the report with the statement “Sony A7R II is a winner. I have no hesitation in recommending it to the vast majority of shooters.” Nothing negative about that.
Agree!
Indeed, but it isn’t trolls cherry picking, but him, to create more traffic. Clickbait to get subscribers. While his reviews might be excellent I don’t like this practice TBH. He writes some sensationalist thing and then says click through to review for more info (which is for subs only). The trolls pick this up and spread like wildfire and won’t have ever read what he fully writes about the camera.
Lol 99% of these reviews are about personal feelings and how it brings them memories of a time in their early years they spent with some old mentor in a darkroom.
Just a Sony Fanboy..
AF on A7RII is really, but only in sunlight..
Thats not a Sony Rumor !! Thats just Fanboy publicity BS
Diglloyd a Sony Fanboy?? Ha,ha, that’s a good one!
Get out of your Egyptian River.
What if he only used it during the day, when the sun was at it’s highest?
His main camera is still a Nikon, so I don’t think he counts as a Sony fanboy.
This is a 42mp sensor with pd pixels on the sensor…by that very nature it has to be the most accurate focusing of any sensor ever made.
Accurate focusing trumps just about everything else in photography and this is where the A7rII excels. The EVF has advanced manual focusing to a new level and Digilloyd points this out, this won’t sit well with the traditionalists but it’s a fact.
The vast majority of poor photographs are poor because of improper focus or camera shake.
It is difficult to say which is the more important, but the a7rii has them both covered.
The EVF is awesome, except when you magnify to 5x, then it goes soft for some reason. That softness isn’t in the 12.5x, which makes it really strange.
I have not personally tested it, but reports indicate this issue is lens dependant and mostly affects adapted lenses. Sounds like a firmware correctable bug. If the 12.5 X were affected (as opposed to the 5X) it would more likely be a hardware issue.
I have four E-mount lenses that I’ve used so far and 5x isn’t that great compared to 12.5x. I’ve seen others saying the same thing.
Can you get away with using the 12.5x only do you think?
It’s fine on my A7Rll with FE glass, and Effects Setting OFF. BTW, I have an A7R, A7S as a basis of comparison here too.
Why? It’s not the first time this has been done.
that’s true – it’s not that good in low light but it’s still best AF on mirrorless cameras. I was taking shots of my kids playing in a room with pretty much low light conditions with 85mm f1.2 and it showed itself pretty good. I mean PRETTY good.
So when Lloyd points out the cons, the haters scream “See?! It sucks.” When he gives it praise they call him a fanboy and dismiss it? Pick one. And I’ll give you a hint, you’ll do better with tearing the R2 down if you stick to the 14bit raw issue, because AF accuracy on this one is indeed phenomenal. Eats my 5D3 for lunch in keeper rate.
The Dpreview test shows that the A7RII AF in extremely low light can keep up too, depending on the circumstance.
I really don’t understand the slow autofocus in low light statements. I have the a7rII. I pointed it at almost everything I could last night in my loft with a single lamp on and it’s was quick. What are people talking about?!
Yeah, this claim bears some qualification. Is it stellar in all areas – maximum fps, tracking, etc?
No Camera is yet and to flaunt the results of Nikon technology is even more ludicrous. I suggest a shoot out, Lloyd, on all counts. Better yet get a few pros to do this and give us their feedback. Credibility can only be lost once, so be careful what you say, O hallowed reviewers.
The a7rii will go down in history as the turning point where mirrorless caught up to dslr.
No. This is not the first time people gave up on DSLRs to use a mirrorless.
I thought it was the A7S that will go down in history as the camera that turned many DSLR cinematographers into mirrorless shooters. The camera that gave Blackmagic Design and Canon Cinema lineup a run for their money 😉
Out of all the Sony cameras that I have, only the A7S is giving me that amazement everytime I pick it up. The video quality in high ISO is just sooo good! Thank you Kazuo Hirai, Sony engineers and to whomever is responsible for the invention of this monster 🙂 Especially for Kazuo Hirai for making the decision to make the A7S accessible for normal people w/o them having to spend ten of thousand dollars just to make good quality video. I know many young individual who are now interested in filmmaking and I see many photographers that are now transitioning to becoming cinematographers because of this.
This is such a great time for Sony to dominate the video market. Please support your new customers by making free tutorials on how to use the camera as a beginner (like AF-C video tracking feature), make advanced video tutorials on how to edit Slog2 profile, bundle up discounted video editing (Catalyst / Vegas Pro) software along with the camera and keep the lens discounted please 🙂
These young guns will someday transition to higher end Sony camera that can keep up with the heat like the FS7 etc. But for now keep that dream reachable for them 😉
I’ve seen the demos and I’ve got to say that the eye recognition focusing is simply the best thing I have ever seen in a camera. I mostly take photos of people, a lot of the times over the shoulder (my signature docu photo) and sometimes I miss the focus, or have to use a more closed aperture value than I would like to.
I am using the A99, but it there is no replacement this year or if it doesn’t have this feature, I am switching to e-mount.
tell that to tony northop
I wait… I thought we hated Diglloyd?
I don’t know who to hate anymore 🙁
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It’s clickbait plain and simple, very well planned clickbait at that.
OVF and EVF walk into a studio. Only one comes out alive.
I have to say, if someone can’t go into a studio with an A7 (any A7) and take a decent studio shot then they have no idea about photography and certainly shouldn’t express opinions about it.
Fortunately, you’re not one of those are you.
Errr what? More experts who have never used one: whoopy!
It’s kinda ridiculous to post blanket statements like this without showing the alleged perfectly in-focus images. I tested the A7RII as well, with native FE lenses only, mind you, and accurate or not, it is laggy and slow to lock on. Not even close in speed to dedicated PDAF sensors in SLRs. I wouldn’t touch A7RII for my work because I’d miss the shot every time — speed just isn’t there yet. Shoot side-by-side with an A77II or Canon 1Dx and you’d have to be blind to see the difference.
Right back at ya. Any evidence for your blanket statement?
I’m not the one who wrote and published the review.
No, you most certainly aren’t.
He is certainly not what?
You wrote and published a comment about it, both on the Internet to a wide audience…
I don’t need to justify my criticism of a review based on my own experience to anyone, but if anyone sets out to write a blog piece like that, they better have something to back it up or else its a table with out legs & falls flat on its face.
Believe whatever you want. Buy the A7RII if you want. I don’t care.
Your name should be ‘A clown’ not ‘A photographer’. Nice work clown.
When you have to resort to personal attacks…. enough said.
Yea but what are you shooting? I’ve had much success with my a7II and now a7rII. Nails. Focus. Every. Time. Didn’t happen with my Canon gear. Not even close.
I shoot sports regularly — subjects in super high speed motion both horizontal and racing at you. Keep testing it around your apartment and you might not notice, but take it to a bike race and you’ll notice the shortcomings immediately.
You should have stated that in your comment then it would make more sense.
You obviously bought the wrong camera for sports/high speed. As much as they tout the improved auto focus for fast moving objects, while it’s much better now, it’s still not the camera for that exclusively. Better, but not there yet to match the speed of other cameras.
However, a lot of the focus talk being spot on (hence my first reply) is when shooting wide open and nailing the focus on the intended area. Shooting at say 1.4, you have to be really steady and at times “micro adjusted” on DSLR’s to acquire such accurate focus all the time.
The rate at which the A7RII series acquires exact focus is much, much better than a DSLR. A lot of factors attribute to that which is what was said in the article, if you even read it.
I never said I bought it, but I’m glad you love it. Considering you are not a full time professional photographer, I’m sure it’s more than enough camera for your uses.
Thanks, I really do think it’s great.
Not surprised after looking at your feed: https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikee81/
I find it funny that everyone who says the camera is amazing shoots mostly posed subjects or still life. Reportage/sports/documentary is an entirely different ball game.
Intrigued to see your book, please share.
Wow you must really despise this camera for digging through my past which is when I started this hobbies and btw, is mostly comprised of snap shot photos when I was younger. You are failing to miss the point entirely, still. I’m not saying the AF system is amazing for sports. We are saying the accuracy at which it acquires focus for things like portraits, still life, street, etc. is good. Get over the whole sports AF talk.
I didn’t have to dig, and I’m not just talking about sports.
I’m a professional photographer, and I use Sony for most assignments now. There isn’t anything faster out there for sports than an Sony’s a6000 and FE 70-200mm. The thing is a machine gun and the AF tracks perfectly. By the way, no one shoots sports full time. It’s more of a side-gig for the love of it because there’s no money in it.
70-200 isn’t even long enough for stadium sports on APS-C, let alone Full Frame, so you’ll have a tough time convincing me you’ve ever shot sports as a professional. Furthermore, I’m not going to argue with you about whether or not anyone shoots sports full time, because I don’t need to as I do just that as do many of my peers.
I doubt it according to your uninformed comment. FPS is not equal to tracking performance in all lighting conditions. Additionally try using an APSC cam and F4 zoom for indoor sport in poor lighting. Will get lots of misses and noise in the pictures.
Considering the differences in both financial compensation as well as creative merit the 1dx takes a commendale 2nd place while the a7r2 almost placed last.
Lol wow who saw that coming now. Do you even know the differences between the AF technologies in these cameras? Digilloyd probably does but you clearly don’t. That’s where the problem is.
I’m a photographer, not an engineer. I’ve used A7RII and it is not on par with a DSLR, but if you think it is, then use it! I’m not going to argue with you.
That wasn’t the point. You should learn the tools that you’re using to create. Otherwise it’s no different to chewing paint, spitting it on to a canvas and naming it based on whatever it looks like. You can’t take credit.
But that’s NOT what you said. You asked if I knew the difference between AF technologies. Camera functions and technical backgrounds are entirely different things. You can know a camera inside and out without knowing how the technology was developed or how one camera’s AF system differs from another. Again, if it works, that’s enough for me. All I care about is the end result. A7RII did not meet my expectations and I will not be using it. There’s nothing more to argue about here.
It is the point because you need to know the strengths and weaknesses of the tools that you choose. Hence the spit-art analogy.
Photography is a weak genre of visual art… the difference between a fluke produced by a child and a million dollar “masterpiece” is debatable.
You failed to communicate your point. Knowing your tools is not the same thing as “knowing the difference between AF technologies…”.
I don’t care about the technology in A7RII because it’s too slow for my work in the first place, and neither his review nor your comments will convince me otherwise because I already have first hand experience with the camera. As I already said, A7RII failed to meet my expectations & I won’t be buying it.
WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT ME TO SAY?
You failed to read… maybe you never learned how to.
How the AF works is a part of knowing your tools because different AF makes different “tools” behave differently.
For stills yes. But not sports. People advertise it as DSLR killer and even your comment can be misunderstood as “no matter the situation and task at hand, I never am failed with the A7r “. which clearly won’t be the case in professional sports.
The excerpt has nothing to do with PDAF SLR speed. Why bring it up?
In order to have a high hit rate, a great AF system must not only be incredibly accurate, but also incredibly fast at hitting the target in the first place. For this reason, when it comes to AF, accuracy & speed cannot be separated as, first and foremost, AF exists for the sake of speed.
There is a noticeable lag on A7RII and AF doesn’t have the instantaneous hit I’m accustomed to using and I don’t like the ergonomics, so I didn’t buy it. I’m never going to agree with his review or anything you say otherwise because I’ve already tried it out myself.
Please understand, there’s a huge difference between shooting for a hobby and as a professional. My livelihood depends on getting the shot every time in fast moving situations, and like it or not, I’m not willing to bet my livelihood on A7RII.
I have nothing else to add here.
“In order to have a high hit rate, a great AF system must not only be
incredibly accurate, but also incredibly fast at hitting the target in
the first place.”
No. It was obvious the excerpt was purely about accuracy alone.
“Please understand, there’s a huge difference between shooting as a hobby and as a full time professional. My livelihood depends on getting the shot every time in fast moving situations, and like it or not, I’m not willing to bet my livelihood on A7RII.”
I don’t care if you call yourself a hobbyist or FT pro and so wouldn’t you.
Keep drinking the Sony Kool-Aid.
This is all about accuracy here. Stop bringing up speed.
Not like the RII is sold to compete with D4 / 1DX.
Some people need accuracy, speed, or both. There will be compromises for each. You want speed than you’ll have to work with some picture that isn’t 100% in focus or on the target.
DSLR live view AF = accuracy
DSLR phase detect = speed
Mirrorless = hybrid
But you just brought speed yourself and you have to because it contributes to accuracy when tracking moving targets, and consequently, where A7RII falls behind.
Furthermore, at this point in time, Sony’s SLT cameras are the only true hybrids because they offer full time live view with true continuous AF, uninterrupted by the shutter, mixed with the high speed performance and ergonomics of a traditional DSLR.
A99 was the first camera to combine dedicated PDAF with OSPDAF, albeit poorly implemented. I don’t expect Sony to make that same mistake twice.
I don’t think we’re going to agree on this one, but if you shoot still targets you have nothing to worry about anyhow.
Yeah…I had to bring it up because you were acting dumb.
DSLR and mirrorless is like gasoline and electric cars. Too early for the latter to make the former obsolete right now…time will tell.
Nobody said you couldn’t have both to fill all the needs. Got my D700 and A7II to cover everything.
Yes we all know it’s not for sports photograph, that has it’s very special requirement which the A7RII doesn’t meet. It’s great and very fast at getting AF on people (face and eye detect).
This is exactly why I switched from dinosaur DSLRs. I don’t shoot things moving at 100mph, but most of my photos are at less than f4. Focus accuracy to me is far more important than speed. My number of missed focus images from a shoot are a fraction of what they were with my old D800, and by the sound of it the A7RII raises the bar further.
The days of inaccurate off-sensor AF sensors being considered acceptable are in the past. The days of tolerating a pathetic tiny cluster of AF points in the middle of the frame are in the past. As is putting up with back/front focus, non-zoomable viewfinders for manual focus, and all the other legacy disadvantages that come with having a mirror flapping around in the middle of your camera.
I agree with most of what you typed, but still, it’s nice to have AF that can lock onto fast moving objects. I think for a lot of us, we still like to shoot with lenses that are faster than f4, not necessary for the light but for the subject isolation and artistic effect. After hiking up half doom in yosemite national park with my pack packed with my DSLT and couple lenses I seriously considered buying to a mirrorless system. M43 sensor size doesn’t do it for me, and I can’t justify sonys 10-18. If sony could put out a quality 16mm or a 16-50 lens of good quality I would most likely stop buying A-mount lenses and switch to E. Though, I am intrigued by canon’s EOS m3 with their 11-22. Really good performance, their 22mm prime is good enough for my needs. I just can’t give up my DSLT for shooting animals without an ASP-C or FF system that has reasonable priced primes that are ~2.8 or wider and actually have native long zoom lenses. Lets face it, not all of us enjoy adapters.
Speed contributes to accuracy. A7RII lags before finding the target. When shooting moving subjects, this can mean missing the shot completely.
have a look at “THE LAST WORD” from Jim Kasson Photography
and his findings to fake ISOs:
“But the take home is the same: don’t use the fake ISOs on the
D810. If you must overexpose, at least do it with the manual controls or
the exposure compensation adjustment, so you can see what you’re doing
with the preview image and the in-camera histogram.”
on the Nikon D810
http://blog.kasson.com/?p=11661
and the A7RII
http://blog.kasson.com/?p=11622
This is normal, every pro camera has it. What’s the problem ?
No problem – but I’m sure the usual Sony haters will make hay out of it, somehow.
A different review http://petapixel.com/2015/08/24/42-megapixels-of-garbage-an-unconventional-review-of-the-sony-a7r-ii/
No doubt a mirrorless camera can focus with higher precision than a DSLR. But the question is HOW and how FAST this can be done? It is just a pain in the a.. to always use mag mode with mf lenses to check perfect focus. Peaking is just about so so, especially with fast lenses wide open, and calling f4.0 good enough to use peaking alone is a bit funny. IMHO Sony has all the tech but not the handling. Sony needs a better, more intuitive method to show in focus for mf lenses. Until then a mostly irrelevant lesser precision but quicker DSLR focussing is superior, and @f4.0 a DSLR is equal in precision and much faster.
Diglloyd’s like the John Kerry of the camera gear review world…
I’m relieved that the A7Rii solved the issue with focusing. Using the original A7R for portrait shoots can be really challenging – I’ve missed focus (and shots while its hunting) with it more than with any other camera – including medium format cameras with ONE focus point! It’s better suited for slow, deliberate work like still life, architecture, landscape, etc.
Medium format cameras with one focus point still use phase detection. The hunting is an inherent limitation of contrast detection.
If you learned the technologies before you bought them then maybe you wouldn’t be such a cry baby.
Geez dude, what’s with the hostility? If you wanted the best FF sensor in the world and didn’t want a Nikon, then you had to suffer with the bad AF of the A7r.
He’s usually always hostile
Lol I’m hostile towards nay-saying morons who can’t figure out how use a tool for the benefits they give.
A7r didn’t have bad AF… it is a design decision and most idiots who pick up cameras are clueless about these.
Yeah, af was almost unusable before. I use nex7 almost exclusively with mf lenses or in mf mode. When using af for portraits it always focuses on the line between hair and background, and eyes are always out of focus. This eye af mode looks very promising.
What Lloyd said is correct about how important evf tech is now; some of us >50 who now require reading glasses cannot nail focus with dslr without a tripod + live-view (even with focus-screen upgrades). With Sony A7 evf’s it’s like being a kid again w/ perfect eyesight & even manual-focus lenses are easy to use again & nail focus.
Who’s John Kerry?
Its like a heir to the throne of united forces of america. And a famous global warming guy. Or it was Jim Kerry?
There’s no reason that Sony could not use similar A7Rii features and place a high speed shutter in an A99 sized body. Of course using non Sony Mount lenses would be a chore…but Zeiss makes some of the best lenses in the world. With the added size, Sony could utilize better battery life
So he compares autofocus on a Canikon DSLR with the A7rii with AF or manual or both or one or the other? Hasn’t been clear to me, if he nails the focus with autofocus lenses or not. He clearly talks about AF for the Nikon or Canon. For manual focus, if he mainly shoots trees and barns, then for sure live view is dead on. But doesn’t Canikon also have a live view? Seems different things are compared. I am super happy for manual focus with the A7, but I don’t get every cat moving close on me sharp, that is for sure.
Unlike John Kerry, nobody who really uses an A7 for taking photos gives a crap what Lloyd thinks.
One thing is that Sony and Fuji are using linear motors in lens. I think linear motors are just more accurate in nature.