UPDATE: Sony announce the stuff today (May 16):
Sony A7s preorder in USA at Amazon US (Click here), BHphoto (Click here), SonyStore (Click here).
RX100M3 preorders in USA at Amazon (Click here), BHphoto (Click here), SonyStore (Click here).
RX100M3 preorders in Eu at Sony DE, UK, ES, FR, IT, NL, BE, AT, CH, SE, NO, FI, PT.
RX100M3 in Asia at Amazon Japan.
Sony A7s EU pages (no preorder yet): Sony DE, UK, ES, FR, IT, NL, SE, FI, PL.
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I have been told the A7s pricing will be announced soon and also that Sony will say the A7s will ship in June. But like I told you before expect real shipment in early July as best. I am yet not sure but the pricing could be announced on Thursday already because by then Sony will have an official press release for the RX100M3 launch.
I really do hope Sony doesn’t go crazy high with the price. The current only competitor is the Panasonic GH4 (priced at $1699 at Amazon). While the A7s has a larger sensor and superb High ISO performance the Panasonic can do internal 4K, has much faster AF and 10 bit 4:2:2 output. In my opinion the price should be just below $2,000 for the A7s too!
A7s tests:
Still ISO test (Click here). Full size images and video test (Click here). Low light video test (Click here).
A7s Preorder or pure notification store links:
USA: Sony US, Amazon and BHphoto.
Europe: Sony DE, UK, ES, FR, IT, NL, SE, FI, PL.
Asia: Digitalrev
Reminder: You will need the Atomos Shogun at BHphoto (Click here) to grab 8bit 4:2:2 4K video.
0 Responses
Any new info on the RX100M3 ? When can we expect availability ?
hi admin, anyway you can chat with regional sony manager will it be any fw update for A7 series to gain 120p? and what will be the future road map for A/E mount camera up to 2015 based on your current rumors have received 🙂 TQ!
Prediction: Will not happen or will happen when there is a FW update for the A77II.
It’ll be called the A77III 😀
Yes, they add to A77III 120p but remove something, e.g. wi-fi, focus peaking, microphone socket, GPS… no, they will not remove GPS. They have already done it…
This is the worst thing ever happened and only in SLR arena; you wont see that in mobile arena; the problem is among these pancanikonpusamy brands are hardly to create serious competition among themselves, especially their gadgets are not really universal from brand to brand besides the high pricey factor.
Haha, i am curious most smartphone can do that, a $2200 camera cant do that LoL; mean time we cant see real review and dxo benchmark untill July for A7s 🙁 omg, such a long way to go
“Most smart phone can do that” Really??? My iPhone 5 can’t anyone else shoot 120fps? I know the iPhone 5s can…
Quote you some ‘cheapy’ smartphone brands: Oppo, Mi and many more. 120fps has been a feature in smartphone; that thanks for serious competition in mobile arena; too bad in SLR arena manufacturer just like to fools all of us… LoL
Your smartphone doesn’t have a full frame sensor.
true.
I’ve no doubt that the smartphones get high frame rates it by increasing line skipping and all sorts of other tricks which result in reduced quality. There’s only so much power and bandwidth available, and even on professional video kit there will be some tradeoff for high frame rates.
My HTC One (M7 could do that), My current Samsung Galaxy Note 3 can do that, same for a ton of other phones. Apple phones are listed as capable of doing that as well.
But then, hot often are you going to use that feature? All phones have horrible cameras, and it makes no darn difference if you lose some quality on a smartphone, by going 120 FPS.
Also keep in mind that phones go up to 720p max @ 120FPS
firmware update. ha That’s a good one.
I am more more interested in the RX2. 🙂
omg, there is lack of 35mm/50mm E-f1.4 AF lens…?
Bahahaha! Wow you are so funny!
Ingrate! They offer a 400,000ISO camera (palm sized) and you want f/1.4 lenses?!
Because more light + Less noise > more sensitivity (with higher noise)
Still unclear about usable high iso performance 🙂 what if for non.4mil ISO camera like A6000, A7/r… hmm…. sony will bet their stakes for emount or amount?
The A7R works fine for me at ISO6400 (handheld, 1/100s and f/2). Quite a few claims of the A7s are “clean” ISO12800. After noise reduction of the ISO6400 files, they would still offer larger files than the the A7s. Sure, f/1.4 lenses would benefit the 7 and the 7R.
However, let us not lose the focus here- it is that 8bit 4K video from the whole big sensor readout. 🙂
I think you can go with Gh4 or next Amount FF; I wont think A7s will gain 10bit 422; If it does, it supposedly done during the first day announcement;
with bigger body, possible sony will manage the heat problem and fix this for you 10bit 422 🙂
The Sony A7S does not (despite what some misleading Sony press release blurb says – they are written by marketing people, not engineers) read the whole sensor for every frame , if for no other reason than the sensor is 3:2 aspect ratio and the video will the 16:9. Indeed, there’s an extremely good reason to believe that there’s a 1:1 pixel match with 4K video so it will not even be using the entire with (about 10% short), giving a mild “crop factor” re the FF equivalent focal length. That’s precisely what the GHS4 does, albeit that video it suffers from a considerably higher “crop factor” when compared with the M43 native still image owing to the rather squarer sensor layout (meaning an even higher proportion of photosites are in lines outside of the video frame).
What I think is far more accurate is that the A7S will read every pixel within the video frame area.
nb. I suppose it might just be possible that every row is read and the extra line (about 40%) are just discarded. However, that would be a barking mad thing to do as it would waste power, generate more heat and worsen rolling shutter effects (as it would take longer to read each frame). Given the way CMOS operates, it’s also entirely unnecessary to read every line.
You are so right. It offers 8bit 4K with an external recorder and no full pixel (ie., all the 12MP) readout either.
Sony has been clear that the entire width of the sensor is read in video mode (even in 4k mode), without binning, cropping, or line skipping. I choose to believe them.
It may well be that the entire line width is read due to the way the line-by-line read process works. However, those “edge” pixels (about 4%) will not form part of the image.
If you did a bit of analysis, rather than a superficial reading of some publicity blurb put together by a Sony marketing team, then it would reveal what is really happening.
OK then – let’s work through the implications of your claim. We know the sensor is approximately 12.2MP, which yields means the 3:2 aspect ration sensor has approximately 4280 x 2850 photosites. That’s assuming “square”, rather than rectangular, pixel dimensions which is universal on all the sensors I know, and to move from that would have all sorts of implications for RAW converters. Note that for the sensor to be exactly the width of a 3,840
However, we know that Sony’s 4K video will offer 3840 × 2160 video (which matches domestic TV standards). So now we have the issue that there’s 4280 readings to squeeze into 3840 horizontal output (about 11% more). If we are to maintain the 16:9 aspect ratio (rather than “stretch” the image vertically), then you also have to read 11% more lines – that’s 2376 lines.
So, according to your claim Sony will be reading 2,376 lines of photosites by 4,280 columns to produce a video output of 3,840 x 2,160. There’s only two ways of achieving that – either pixels are “skipped” (usually whole lines/rows on cameras which do this) or by complex interpolation processes (which essentially combines outputs from multiple photosites). Both would appear to contradict the “no skipping, no binning rule”. For a 3:2 sensor to exactly match the 3,840 horizontal resolution, it would actually have to have slightly under 10 million photosites.
However, there’s another reason to believe that isn’t going to happen, and it is it makes no engineering sense. It’s far more power and processing efficient to map 1 photosite to each 4K video pixel (and 4 photosites to each 2K video pixel) than use some complex interpolation scheme. As another benefit of slightly oversizing the sensor, it also means the same sensor can be used to produce other 4K formats, like DCI 4096 × 2160. Further, the extra pixels at the frame edge allow for the use of electronic stabilisation. Neither feature may appear on the A7S, but it’s useful to retain the option for other uses of the sensor.
So my prediction, which I’d be 99% confident of is that the A7S will have an effective video crop factor of around 10-11% compared to FF. Note that the GH4S has exactly the same issue when compared with still images (in fact, slightly worse due to the “squarer” 4:3 aspect ratio of M43).
Well Sony have been early on most things in the last 8 months or so, well here at least. They have often set delivery targets and exceeded them, much better than the old days of NEX-7 etc (which to be fair was affected by tsunami and floods).
Multi-platform shared body with 12MP FF and limited E-mount shouldn’t cost more than 1000€ nowadays.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9tEjGgeN5I&list=UUuw8B6Uv0cMWtV5vbNpeH_A
He needs to watch my self-help video “How To Look Like a Pro Comedian.” ;^)
I don’t see any connection with the A7s topic? Are you just advrtising Digital Rev here?
They didn’t even care to make a video for the A6000 or A77 II, let alone the A7S!
They keep making videos about D3300s, D5300s, 1100Ds and so on Canikon stuff.
They didn’t even care to make a video for the A6000 or A77 II because sony didn’t care about us. A6000 and A77 II – cameras designed by accountants not engineers.
This still dosent change the fact that someone just wanted to advertise Digital Rev here without having any connection with the topic – that is called spamming.
I’d rather believe latest Canikons were designed by accountants looking at protecting existing markets. Sony have been recognised lately for being one of the most innovative camera makers, did accountants decide to put FF sensors in compact bodies?
that bulky-heavier-dslr body ><"
I like the lens hood part 🙂
I feel uneasy about the hood now :). I never remove it from my SAL1650. Its always attached.
I must be a pro photographer now LOL!
Absolutely no way this is going to be below $2,000.
why?
Because I think (as an FF camera), it’s competing with the Canon 5D MK III, which is widely used for semi-professional video work. For most of these users, 4K isn’t going to be the important issue – excellent HD will be enough.
The A7S is going to be a minority, specialist interest as it’s clearly not primarily aimed at the still photographer. For most still photographers, I think the loss of resolution will be an issue, particularly it they do a lot of cropping to increase apparent “reach”. The frame rate is also low. I think the vase majority of still photographers will choose the A7 or A7R (even at equivalent prices) as those cameras will suit them better.
As such, if the A7S is to be, as I suspect, a minority interest, it’s very likely to sell at a premium to the A7 and A7R to recover the costs of development (and higher production costs than the M43 competition). Also, bear in mind that the A7R (body only) already sells at over $2,000 in the US before taxes.
Anyway, we’ll see if I’m right. I predict a price which will undercut the Canon 5D, but be substantially more than the GH4. Perhaps around the $2,400 mark.
Why does everyone think that because it’s a niche product it’s going to sell at a premium? How much of this camera is nothing more than recycled parts from the A7 and A7R? That’s what will determine the pricing. I don’t see this being a major issue- if anything it will just increase the overall sales of the E-mount full frame line.
Weren’t you around when the D800E (vs. D800) came about with the higher price even when the two cameras were virtually identical? Nikon sells more so they can absorb higher production costs better than Sony too.
Got into cameras awhile after the D800E hit the market. Or, at least, really started to take interest.
That’s to confuse costing with pricing. Rather different things. Pricing is all about maximising the commercial benefit, whilst costing is about understanding the cost structure and keeping it under control. Just because something is cheap to manufacture, it doesn’t mean it will be sold cheaply. Witness the profit margins Apple manage on the iPhone.
Also, whilst much of the hardware and software is common to the A7 and A7R, there is sufficient difference (like the sensor and model/video specific software) that there are extra costs to be recovered, albeit some of those are fixed, “sunk” costs.
I stick with my estimate, which is not much more than the A7R pricing (which Sony launched at $2,299 body only).
Thanks for the explanation.
One thing though. The price of any item is the point at which the cost intersects with the demand. The idea is to maximize demand in relation to the highest possible cost. I think the concern with many posters on here is that the A7S is not correctly going to be priced to hit the equilibrium point. What I’m saying is I don’t think that would be a product of cost- I don’t think the cost of the A7S exceeds the cost of the other A7’s. I think Sony might miss the mark and therefore be forgoing any potential revenue if they more appropriately price the A7S to create more demand. Many still photographers are interested in the A7S despite it being focused on videographers. I don’t think videographers are enough to strike a high level of demand.
It has recycled parts of the Alpha 7/7r, but also a brand new sensor never use before on any camera unlike his two sibling. Sony have to pay the R&D for this sensor which is one if not the most expensive part of a camera.
Just remember, people said fairies can’t fly if you feed them hamburgers- who’s laughing now ? 2000 is completely doable.
lol
Get me under $2k, and I’m in. JUST on the promise that the corners will be fantastic with legacy glass.
If they do it right , everybody will say:
“Darn, just a bit to expensive, but I’ll bite.”
No, if they do it right everybody will say:
“Darn, such a good offer I will have to buy”.
And actually everybody will buy it.
I hope sony created 4k internal on a6000 $2000-3000 around.
I didn’t even expect a7s. In terms of form factor, I will stick with my fs700 instead.
This camera needed the A6000 AF performance to be perfect, I’ll be looking for the A7S II with the A6000 AF or better.
This may be a naive question – but is anyone simultaneously a video expert and a person who ever uses Autofocus?
Some people do more than just corporate videos and crew work.. just saying. Even some very experienced DPs are using AF (in some situations) now, especially for steadicam/Movi/etc.. rigs
There is advantage in both. I do amateur video stuff with my A65, like recording concerts and shows for their organizers. Thats also how I get in for free sometimes – Connections, connections :). If i’m way out back, recording something that fits within DOF nicely, i’m in a MF setting to eliminate focus breating and AF error. But if there is sufficient movement towards me, back and forth, I’ve found AF to be way more precise, than me in MF mode with focus peaking.
That inaccuracy is more than doubled if I have to use zoom, cause my SAL1650 loses focus fairly quickly if I zoom in or zoom out. AF works wonders in this case.
Focus peaking has quite a bit of error on its own as well, but yes, nothing can replace manual focus in quite a few setup scenarios.
On sensor PDAF is useless in low light, this focuses down to -4ev, the a6000 does not. In good light CDAF is plenty fast… just not for tracking.
my thoughts is A7s have no future if its is cost more than 2500$
we have the nikon DF for photographers and GH4 for photographer so sony 2000$ is a golden price for any 4k you need 2000$ external recorder (atomos shogen ) and 12 megapixel is not usable in sunlight anyway , i mean its obvious this camera is for low light photography
….. to be honest i will not buy anything before photokina and after nikcanon show their latest offers , we need game changer like 5dm2 or d800
Why is 12 megapixels not useable in sunlight? I’ve taken many great photos with my Canon 20d at only 8 megapixels…in sunlight.
i mean you don’t need high iso in bright sunlight , cell phones do 8 megapixl for 3 years know and a pro photographer definitely need more than 12
why do you think some pro go for medium format ! other than the look of MF you have at least 50 megapixel to play with in post
now *
it all depends on end product. nothing to do with pro or amateur.
Only some pro photographer need more than 12, there is no definite anything when it comes to photography or anything else for that matter.
why not think about it in the way of using the best gear you can have
dont forget any cropping is a huge deal with a 12 mp file , let say your crop get you 8 mp know good luck with a quality A3 print size , or even zooming the file digitally
hmm… when no 10bit 4:2:2, no internal 4k, it seem hardly to name it as 4K video. But now you say its made for low light photography, I doubt on it based my sense that: slow fps, less focus point, low batt, etc; Sony may think the other way round that A7s custom made for both low light photography and 4K 🙂 how many are you agree?
If they do then they are delusional.
totally agree , but the price will forgive a lot of flows
at 2000$ its has the full fram look for videographers and the high iso capability is awesome second camera for a lot of pros photographers
like others, I don’t think it will sell at $2000; I speculate at least $2499; perhaps sony just want to target the minority.
DF for photographers? LOL
And 12mp not usable in sunlight??
Can we know which camera that you use currently has made your life so difficult? 😀
hhh so funny i use sony a65
the nikon DF has D4 sensor and phase detection of the d600 so why its not a good camera , compare it to the a7s spec wise , high iso capability , small form factor
oh yes it has no video function , that why i said its good for photographers !
what i meant by 12 mp is not usable was bad expression i mean you dont need high iso in bright sunlight so why use a 12mp camera , if you can use 36mp !!
Since this A7s has 12MP and the Nikon D3S has 12MP sensor as well, I would like to see comparison at the same ISO levels.
I would wager the D3S edges it out a little. The reason for that is, the A7S runs the sensor full time keeping it hot which increases noise. It’s a relatively small factor, but, it is likely enough to bring it just under the D3S.
Still, I’m sure it will provide a great score on whatever favorite lab testing score sheet you’re paying attention to.
Make it $850 and watch as the other companies poop their pants and loyal customers of other brands pull out their wallets. Not the case but it Would be quite humorous to watch.
N/A
Below 2K and really good reviews for stills and a suprising DR rating- I’ll buy it. We’ll see, I still think it was rushed.
GH4’s AF is not relevant to video people. If AF is that crucial there’s always the SLT adapters that do things properly.
Seriously, people need to be a bit less afraid to manual focus. It takes a massive amount of effort to manual focus and nail focus in DSLRs (even with MF focusing screens) but with focus peaking and LCD/EVF it’s a lot easier on mirrorless ccameras. Plus with shots that matter you shouldn’t rely on AF anyway… exception being lengthy sports sessions… in which case why bother with a bare mirrorless anyway!
I agree that autofocus is not going to be an issue with this camera’s main audience (videographers). But, it is hardly irrelevant if one is to compare it to other 12mp full frame camera offerings. I think there is a strong temptation to compare it to the Nikon D3S and while they may offer similar sensitivity, the D3S is a tank with very high frame rates for stills and very good AF.
Yes, people can manual focus. People don’t want or need to in the few areas where a 12mp FF camera is really an ideal tool (reporting, action, sports, etc.) which just means this camera has a smaller audience and as such will come at a higher price.
D3S has the same sensor as the D3 and D700 btw… Nikon shoved even more NR to tge D3S to keep that sensor alive for another generation. Never seen a sharp photo from a 12MP Nikon because how much the raw files are cooked (also their AA filters are too strong).
This sensor is likely different in a good way. Maybe made with a better native fill factor. Only time will tell.
But what we know for sure is the d3s is a massive DSLR. The size difference alone would make people prefer the a7s.
AF is the main reason I use Sony camera/glass. I’ve never had the opportunity to work on a crew with more than 3 people and that never includes a AC. Good AF with tracking is a god-send to be able to do easy(er) Steadicam work, which my main client is in love with (as am I). I won’t by another camera without decent AF again, unless I get a pocket AC.
Just throwing that in there.
They will have to price it higher than you expect. Sorry… it’s just such a niche offering. It’s a terrible stills camera. It offers nothing to the vast majority of stills photographers that the A7 doesn’t do better. If it was more like a D3S in other ways, frame rate, autofocus, etc. then I would say differently.
Anyway, it’s obviously geared towards low light video. Hardly anyone needs this kind of camera. A few people will die for it. I don’t think the external recorder requirement is an issue. Every serious cinematographer/videographer I know personally uses external recorders as a matter of fact.
So it becomes a matter of simple economics. With low demand, the price must be higher in order to produce anything resembling a profit. The only way it will not be priced high is if they are planning to subsidize its existence across the whole product line. So let that be your last bastion of hope for a low price.
Oh and if you think Sony is at all afraid to choose irrationally high pricing, just look at the latest 70-200 f/2.8 G lens…
I expect the A7S to wipe the floor with the Red Dragon sensor. Give me more that 16.5 stops of DR and ISO that makes my eyes bleed. Now that’s what I’m talking about.
Expect then, and more expectations, and then disappointment….Red dragon is better than Sony F65 flaghsip camera (except rolling shutter). Sony will not canibalize theire pro video market with this little baby, be sure of this fact..
Please don’t get me won’t, it can be a great camera but don’t hope for miracles because they won’t come!
Yeah, I know but a man can dream. I am wondering though- how good will the DR be? Everyone keeps saying “class leading” but the best 35mm sensors don’t go above 14- and those are usually exaggerated claims. You can usually cut off about 2EV’s if your considering high quality DR. I’d say one stop isn’t enough to get excited over. Why this spec. hasn’t been publicized yet makes me wonder.
I think it will have over 14 stops of DR but only in RAW stils, for video the huge DR is wasted in 8 bit output, so sad! And the lack of internal 4K recording is unforgivable in my opinion (to leave place for a more expensive camera with the same sensor, I bet).
The internal recording means it just got moved up the ladder a few notches. Basically, if your not a serious hardcore videographer go elsewhere. I don’t see GH4 users giving this a glance for that reason alone.
Most “hardcore” videographers will stick with video cameras.
@disqus_wTskUOtYzA:disqus Christopher This is the most stupid comment yet!
@THKPIC no, the Sony A7s can only output 8 bit of data, this means even with a Shogun, the video is useless for professional work,
however it may bee good for enthusiasts, but I don’t see many spending 5000$ just to play.
The Canon 5D MK III only does 8 bit HDMI output, yet that is widely used for video production. It’s certainly not considered “useless for professional work”. Of course, it won’t be suited for all types of video work, but some rather ambitious stuff has been filmed using the Canon 5D MKII (like an episode of House). To that you can add concert footage, music videos and even some (low budget) feature films. Also, use with reportage, wedding videos and much else.
This stuff about 8 bit vs 10 bit is overstated. It all depends on just how much post-processing is required as those 8 bits are not mapped to a linear curve (meaning that the DR can be much more than 8 stops). The danger then is posterization, and whether that is a problem or not depends on circumstances.
So, whilst the A7S (and DSLRs) won’t meet all video requirements, that’s a long way from saying they are useless for professional work.
@SteveGJ we shall live and see. But in my opinion the omission of 4K internal recording is a great minus, many people including me will search elsewhere because of that.
Don’t get we wrong, I think is a great camera, especially for stills but the lack of 4K internal recording thing is unacceptable from my part. If it had it, I who’d gladly buy two, even at 3000$.
In one breath you criticize my comment that the supposed “hardcore” videographers will stick with video cameras and in the same breath criticize someone else because the a7s is not “professional” enough. Contradict yourself much?
I work in an international broadcast studio every weekday. The video crew (when going handheld) only use shoulder mount video cameras with XLR, power zooms and P2. If we are talking about the “hardcore” then suffice to say, they will stick with such cameras for ergonomics, pro inputs and as you say (contradict) professional output.
The a7s is a great choice for still photographers who shoot video on the side, wedding / event videographers for low light abilities, low-budget film makers, home movie shooters and for those that need a small b-roll camera.
A little bit of contradiction never hurts, the idea is that the camera is useless for 4K work as it is, most of the people are not interested in buying a separate recorder to get 4K, and the ones who are willing to pay, want at least 10 bit and 4:2:2 from it.
I personally live from video production and I know what I’m saying. A7s is a good camera for stills, it sounds to be good for video, but it is just a crippled video camera, with space for the next models or upper models.
I’m with you that 10bit output would be nice. It’s going to affect post options. Presumably Sony is protecting the FS series cameras. It’s a pity that don’t isn’t releasing their own 4k recorder, then they would have more incentive to output 10-bit 4k since the price of the camera + 4k recorder + XLR adapter is close to the fs700.
You won’t get 16.5 stops of DR out of this sensor. The only reason the Red Dragon manages such a high DR is because (for the lower frame rates), it can read each photosite multiple times using something called (by some) temporal noise reduction. It can only do this with a specially designed sensor and using lots of power (and forced cooling). something which is not viable in a small prosumer camera.
The Red Dragon is very much a specialist video processor, and there’s no way that a more general purpose one designed for prosumer use is going to match it.
Yes I hope it is priced below 2k as well 🙂
Until I see otherwise, the Atomos guy’s statement is what I’m going by – $5k for the Shogun ($2k) and the A7s. That would make it $3000, now please officially confirm this so I can place my order! Anything less is just lens money as far as I’m concerned. Anyone expecting it to be cheaper than the A7r is going to be disappointed.
Same here. I’m thinking $2.5k to $3k.
This high iso 12mp sensor…as well as the 36mp sensor will probably find thier way int A mount cameras in the near future.
no…. this is 899,90,- and if they do not want, i will not buy…. not in the sony-sony-sony-net-next-next show. nono.
but the idiotic show goes on…. so if they had put only one 14m-pix sensor-we would stay
right there, we was in 2010….. so next?
The idiotic show? Of what, an electronics company releasing new products? As for the choice of resolution , it’s for video with full pixel readout at 4k. If you don’t like it, there are the a7 and a7r cameras. Not all cameras are going to be released especially for you.
Oh boy, we should rather pack a wishlist for the A9(r) @ Fall 2015.
You mean A9R as soon as the A7S hits the market. Sony’s strategy is what I call “machine gun marketing.” Rapid fire, no holds bar- smack you in the face with mediocre upgrades.
My wishlist would be keeping my butthole with the same size. Thanks Sony for enlarging us with many products
Even though this camera on paper seems uber sexy, for some odd reason I think the A77II is more appealing. It can’t just be me? I don’t know why, but I’d much rather that or an A88 even with minor upgrades.
Thats because you’re an A-Mount user. Just like lots of us, you don’t see the tiny body appealing. I’m completely with you there.
However, I’m sure you would have a completely different opinion if we were to get A99II, A99IIs and A99IIr.
I’d probably go for the r version, but i’m sure that every astrophotographer would jump on the s version bandwagon.
Maybe, but I’m also a M43 user- have the EP5 as well. I get the value of a tiny body, but I look at the whole package. And yes, I would have a completely different opinion if there was an A99II. I’m all for that.
Well, I get the EP5 too, same goes for any Nex camera with 1650pz. or A7 series with a 50 or a 35 e-mount prime, or any other small lens. What I don’t get is A7/A7r with SEL70200g. I think that’s what my “tiny body” comment was targeting.
70-200 is redonkulous with the A7 but doable. It’s not the length that is the problem. Any F4 or slower is fine- I use an F4 with my EP5 handheld. The issue is width- like my 135mm 1.8- forget about it. No freaking way it doesn’t work. I get the 70-200 F4 but then again- I don’t use zooms so there you go. DSLR IMO still has better ergonomics so that’s where I’ll spend most of my money.
The blue “s” in the A7s is not everyone’s favorite. 🙂
I’ve tried both, a7s is better
Very informative statement. In what way?
I’m sure in video and ISO it is better. But that’s about it.
Do tell! More info..more info….more info….!
2k or 4k. ill still purchase the camera. for the style of work i do nothing beats it.
I will stay away from this thread, since I’m scared of clowns.
A7R’s still quality is below D800 (not even need to mention D800E), especially on the less sharpness result which believed to be caused by processed RAW. Now A7S has only 12MP, I am worrying its sharpness here, seriously.
If A7S video quality, especially its DR on below ISO 800 is less than 13 stops, I bet it will be a loser for sure. Because in that case, it would be a loser on both still and video category. Nobody care about extreme high (noisy) ISO images, those are for fun only, who need that kind of images in their production video? We care about great quality at low to moderate ISO only.
In fact, I’m seeing it should have the same price as A7 (if not below), since it doesn’t have the high tech of A7R’s high resolution, and it has low tech slowest burst rate, low tech non-phase detection AF, low tech 8 bit video with max of only 50Mbps (only a quarter of what cheaper rivals offering), processed RAW file that many pro dislike of its lack of sharpness and range (this can easily seen from comparing A7R’s RAW vs D800 RAW…yes, we don’t even need to take D800E for comparison), and lack of lens choices (especially fast OSS lens which is essential for videographer). Overall quite weak I would say.
Agree with almost everything you’ve stated. But, the DR has been rumored to be class leading. Why are you assuming only 13 stops?
“Only 13 stops”?? the Canon 5DMKIII has 11.5 stops and the DR king for video would be the Alexa at 14-14.5 stops (with RED Dragon around the same DR). I’m hoping the A7S to surprise me but the Blackmagic Cinema Camera has some very questionable 13 stops, so any DSLR or mirrorles that provides anything over 13 stops is going to be a very interesting alternative to a 60,000$ camera system. Even much more expensive cameras as the Canon C100/C300 or the Sony FS100/700 offer a mere 12 stops.
Red dragon is suppose to have 16.5 so not sure what you mean by 14.5. I thought the A99 has around 14. EV is suppose to measure DR right? Whatever the difference, the average scene is suppose to hit at around 10 with the human eye seeing 20. I’ll take whatever increase I can get….But more important is how highlights roll off than all out DR. Film is still winning that game.
DxOMark rated the Dragon at 14.8 stops. A99, A7 and A7R score 14 stops in RAW stills. As you know, video mode in DSLRs is not RAW, so a couple of stops are lost. Dragon and Alexa have such high DR because they shoot RAW video. The S-Log2 might help mitigate the loss of DR in video mode, but if the A7S sensor is rated at 15 stops in RAW stills, that could translate in 14 stops of DR for video at best -which would be fantastic, BTW-. And yes, film is still the winner at that game.
I just checked, the Canon Mark III does have a shiit 11.5 but the A99 has over 14…so do the a7 and a7r. Your understating the red dragons sensor rating unless your referring to some independent test.
I wish we can get clean image from ISO 100 to ISO 800 for at least 13 stops on video, and it’d be on the game. On many cameras, even for still instead of video, the DR of 14 stops is just at ISO below 400 (or even 200).
From http://www.dxomark.com/:
D800, 13 stops only below ISO 300, 11.5 stops at ISO 800
A7R, 13 stops below ISO 150, 11.5 stops at ISO 800
A7, 13 stops below ISO 200. 11.5 stops at ISO 800
5D3, not even 12 stops on all ISO. 11 stops at ISO 800
Nikon 7100, 13 stops below ISO 200. 11 stops at ISO 800
Remind you that the above measurements are on still, not video. Normally, on video that will decrease 1 stop. This A7S claimed to be optimized for video, I hope they were not just marketing lies. Why bmpcc given beautiful imagery of 13 stops DR at ISO 800 (native ISO) attracts so many indie filmmakers is simply because not even much larger sensor cameras (be it FF or APS-C) able to achieve 13 stops DR at ISO 800 even on still. And ISO 800 is very useful as we do not need to always carrying heavy and expensive fast lens for high mobility shooting, which are the reason why we use small cameras such as A7S to shoot video or movie instead of Alexa or RED.
I’m 100% positive that the price is far more important to most dslr shooter than the size.
A $1-2,000 dslr vs $80,000 Alexa, $20-30,000 red?
20+ stops of dynamic range will not improve those awful gear review videos.
SO ?
Don’t get one, stay with your D800, who cares?
Imaging Resource mentioned that A7S has some new sensor technology that adjusts the DR depending on the ambient light. It’s supposed to be done at the hardware level, not in processing.
Andrea, any news about the next FE lenses?
I’m eagerly awaiting a macro lens. So when does the Sony come and what will it be? Will one of the 5 zeiss lenses also be a macro? Will one Zeiss be a 35/1.4?
There is a macro lens in Sony’s FE lens road map ,here :
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr4-new-zeiss-fe-16-35mm-f4-0-fe-lens-will-cost-about-the-same-as-the-24-70mm-zeiss/
There is a rumor that it will be a 100mm f/2.8 Macro , i don’t know if it’s true.
In the mean time I’m using Minolta MD 50mm f/3.5 Macro manual lens with adapter. It’s absulotly amazing old lens .. super sharp.
The best 50mm in minoltas MD line, and it’s fun to play with for less than a $100 with the adapter if you know how to search for a good one on ebay.
Also I just bought the Minolta 100mm f/2.8 RS macro for $318 for Japan, with LA-EA3 it’s working great.
That’s why I don’t think that I need a macro for the a7, those two lenses are truly amazing.
I so wish that the excellent zeiss 55 f1.8 was a OSS lens.
My wish is more sharp OSS FE lens.
Do you own the 5518? Its fantastic. I love it. I dont need OSS on that FL. I shoot it mainly wide open. Stopped down I push iso a bit handheld. OSS would destroy some shots and compromise IQ. Give it a try.
I just can hope that it’s going to be priced around $1700, hopefully, a hope
May 15, 11:30 PM CST: Sony A7S price posted on B+H: $2498.00 US.