Click on image to enlarge (Courtesy of DCfever).
The Chinese site DCfever posted the first real Sony A7s High ISO test. Please remember that firmware of the camera is 0.01 only! And these are Jpegs too (as usual RAW will show a better performance). At first glance all I can say is that up to ISO 25,600 images do look pretty good. Real huge deterioration happens only from 102.400 ISO towards.
Again, I repeat: The A7s images with final firmware will look even better! And if you buy the new [shoplink 26501 ebay]Mitakon 50mm f/0.95 on eBay (Click here)[/shoplink] you will be able to shoot ghost at night too 🙂
A7s Preorder or pure notification store links:
USA: Sony US, Amazon and BHphoto.
Europe: Sony DE, UK, ES, FR, IT, NL, SE, FI, PL.
Asia: Digitalrev
Reminder: You will need the Atomos Shogun at BHphoto (Click here) to grab 8bit 4:2:2 4K video.
0 Responses
It doesn’t look good at iso 409600 🙂
Yeah. It sucks 🙂
Not clean at 409600, deal breaker for me!
lol
Then wait for the A7SSS (Special-Super-Sensitiv)
It will have the brand new full frame 2MP Sensor which is capable of shooting clean high ISO up to 3.276.800.
🙂
Go get a film camera instead
/sarcasm
Don’t be a pixel peeper freak 🙂
The noise reduction is really lousy… 😉
Oh Man! I really wish Sony would make a A99IIs with this sensor & 12fps with the new A77II AF System. That would be SICK!!!
won’t have complain with 12 MP though, right!? 🙂
Sony, I’m getting pretty sick of you keep breaking the laws of physics like this.
They should make 2 versions of a99m2. Same bodies and af system (preferably larger coverage than a77m2 would give on ff). One with this sensor and high fps and 4k video, other with sensor like a7r. One for low light, action and video and other for high res landscape and studio work.
OMG
Haben will… 😉
But seeing as I already have a Nikon D600, Sony Nex-7 and Sony A7r, none of which I would want to sell, it is hard to justify buying another body.
firmware only 0.01, hoping they can make a big decision to change the hardware can output 10bit, then it will be serious winner, even price higher a bit also will sell very well. Sony almost, or you keeping for next secret camera.
Maybe with FW 1.0 they set ISO to max. 819.200
Just kidding 🙂
IF that happening, you can even see ghost nakedly at night LoL…
Nah, you’ll be able to make out the detail in a ghosts shadow at that ISO.
Uhm, the RAW files contain 14bit, so what do you mean with “can output 0bit”?
use sense also know im talking about video not photo
Video ( which is 8-bit)
Wow, now that’s a much better test! ISO 25600 looks pretty good, and ISO 51200 is still usable! Nice!
I mean, ISO 25600 looks like my 5N’s ISO 3200!
WOW, amazing results! Please SONY, put this sensor in the A99MII!
I predict huge sales in high-Q CCTV systems 🙂
*Sigh*
First a movie, now JPEGs. Before I finally get RAWs, all this is no-news to me.
There were some raw files earlier (got pulled) but I can’t find anyway to process them!
Good stuff for the folks who would like to take pictures with the lens cap on. I prefer a little bit of extra light in 99% of all situations (e.g. using a LED source) since that renders scenes more naturally (better colors, more credible 3rd dimension, etc.). Using m43 I can rely on ISO 1600 / 3200, using FF I do not want to go beyond ISO 3200 / 6400. To be sure: it is impressive what Sony has achieved but I would not normally have a use case for very high ISO settings.
I don’t really want to go beyond ISO 12800 with a FF camera, but man, that ISO 12800 would look good!
I hate modifying the “natural” light of a situation even with a single white LED, so good high ISO is a definite plus in my eyes.
@ eths: in our time of powerful post processing I have given up on expecting that what drops out of the image sensor is the final and only possible result. I think it is fairly customary to assess and (where applicable) edit pictures using a high-quality screen these days. I am not aware of a single camera that delivers totally convincing WB in low-light scenarios out of the box.
That’s a good point. Colour reproduction in low light will be interesting to see in the RAWS..
WB out of the camera is irrelevant in my case, because I shoot RAW and almost never use out of the camera JPEG. The exception to this rule is my iPhone… 😉
Exactly… Flash or any other light sources completely ruin the mood of the pictures. Ok for studios, but not ok for events.
Do indoor / night events have a mini sun in the room or does the space feature artificial light sources for the guests?
By other light sources, I meant Flashes, LEDs, strobes etc. They spoil the natural ambiance of the scene.
If used properly, some fill / bounced flash will give enough illumination to the face to eliminate ugly shadows (under the eyes or nose) from the overhead ambient lights while maintaining the mood of the room.
well
the size of the pixel in a7s its 2x of the a7, and 3x of the a7r (more or less bits)
so you gain 1 stop ISO from a7 and 1 1/2 stop from a7r (probably i little more because less cicuitery)
at best it could be 2 full stop from the 2 cameras (taking that a7 loss a little more because the OSPDAF)
so
1600 is the old 400
3200 is the old 800
and so on
for some really good for the others, well thay had the a7r
good sony released specialized bodies to please everyone needs, rather than release one “average” body that please noone
Pixel size on 7s is as big as you describe compared to A7 and A7R, and you are right about the noise at the pixel level, however, if you take a file from the A7R and lower it’s resolution to the A7S numbers of 12MP, the difference will be negligible.
For example: the Nikon D3S VS D610 or D800 in DXOmark test will all give a result of around 3000iso for 18% S/N at the same resolution, with a slight advantage to the D3S, but with much higher resolution to D610 or D800 in low sensitivities.
Not at the same output size and detail level, the high mp bodies allow for quite a bit of freedom in post. My D800 is pretty much on a par with my D4 up to 6400 ISO { assuming same output size and detail level}. The higher MP camera allows for a more detailed file which can take some NR { while maintaing the same detail ] and of course you would downsize the file to 12mp. The advantge of the lower ISO D4 for for me is faster shooter, bigger buffer, better AF etc it is a pro grade working tool .
Personally the ISO above 6400 look bad its just that it may be a little less bad lol. I cant speak for video but lets face it high ISO video is a lot less demanding than high ISO stills. There has been no 2 stop jump in high ISO ever between one generation and anotehr in any format. In the end for stills when proper controlled tests are done I will be surprised if the difference even approaches 1 stop . We here the same claims from every new camera on the market the micro four thirds fans are particularlly gulible to this .
Here is a straight RAW comparison between the A7 and A7R at 12800 ISO { 100% crops] basically add a little NR to the high ISO file and downsize to the same output size. You end up with the A7r still having a small detail advantge { look at the fine detail} and nere identical noise performance.
To be fair the a7r sensor is a half generation newer than the a7 sensor, optimized for ff e-mount and doesn’t have ospdaf.
It isn’t any more optimised other than what it absolutely needed to be suitable for E-Mount, the 24MP doesn’t need special micro lenses etc as much due to bigger pixel size. Light gathering is a function of sensor area, not of resolution.
It is also a function and result of AA-filter design, microlenses, and a lot more.
I think it is to simple to assume that all this is equal on the sensors.
The A7r sensor is just a tweaked version of the Sony 36mp sensor that appeared in FEB 2012 { D800/e] thankfully in a much smaller body. All thst matters to me is final output and honestly the D800 will match the D4 at 6400 in any output I would use { small/large prints , online gallery etc} .
Unfortunatly we are currently in a sensor tech hiatus in each format with no real advance in the best in each format .The A7r matches the D800, the A6000 just about matches teh D7100, the GH4 { for stills } looks to be around the same as every other 16mp mFT since the E-M5. For stills use there will be no multi-stop gain in high ISO if it even manages an honest 1 stop advance on the best current high ISO { D4s/DF} at same output size I will be surprised.
Video is not my area and there seems to be many factors at play including codecs artifacts ,processing ,bit rates etc that all influence the final output. And significantly a noise level that on video is acceptable is not so in high quality stills
Sony reps stated that the sensor was developed for the a7r / mirrorless specifically. Whether this is true or not, only Sony insiders known for sure.
At ISO 409600, ghost now has no privacy lol…
your picture black fury face will no longer be dark! LOL
Noise has to be judged more severe in a camera that has a low
resolution, as the noise will appear more coarse and destroy more image
information per pixel. Judging by these tests the image quality is perfect up to ISO 6400. ISO 25600 is usable as well, everything beyond is garbage.
Thats true for the jpegs, let´s wait for the Raw performance – It´s likely to be better.
Great ISO performance up to 6400 is an achievement, particularly for Sony whose comparable cameras tend to have less sensitivity versus Canon & Nikon.
For mirrorless, Sony’s sensitivity as you describe it is virtually identical to the best Nikon SLRs of comparable resolution, which is not exactly surprising, as to all intents and purposes, they use the same sensors. This does, of course, exclude the D4S and until some proper tests and measurements are performed, we won’t know, My guess is that they will be similar.
Of course the SLT cameras los out by half a stop or so because of the translucent mirror, but that doesn’t apply to the A7 or NEX series.
In the case of Canon, it’s well known that they can’t match the best Nikon’s in terms of ultimate dynamic range as they suffer from more noise in deep shadow areas.
Nikon, use this sensor for the D700 replacement!
They probably won’t. This will put D4 high ISO performance under the microscope.
The 12,800 ISO video on launch demo already sold me. That is the cleanest 12,800 ISO I have ever seen. I hope this camera becomes overly successful, so that other manufacturers will follow suit. ISO/Dynamic Range is the new megapixels.
As far as ISO vs. mega pixels is concerned one of the best articles is this one: http://photographylife.com/the-benefits-of-a-high-resolution-sensor
… and is it easy to handle shooting selfies in the dark?
ISO 12800 doesn’t look different to what A7 / A7R are capable of when image is resized to 12mpix. I think I’d rather have more megapixels and resize if necessary.
The really high ISO’s (50000+) don’t look usable to me with A7s, at least for photography..
I see this camera as a mixed bag with probably more good then bad.
For video its all good, end of story.
For stills the high iso is good…but only 12mp I consider a minus.
Up to 25600 the details mostly seem there but above that the resolution degrades drastically and the noise is horrendous.
It is however good to be able to get any image at all in the extreme conditions this camera will function in.
If I were to use this camera it would be limited to those situations where my regular cameras cannot function well.
the sensor was limited to 12mp to make the pixels larger in size to reduce the noise levels at high ISO, considering the 409600 which is monumental.
That’s not noise, that’s noise reduction you are seeing on the JPEGs there. RAW will be more detailed but probably more actual noise. These actually look ‘clean’ just smeared to buggery.
Fair analysis. All this hype is going to disappoint quite a few. I wish they put in the newer 16MP sensor (from D4/D4s/Df) instead of the D3/3s sensor.
You sir are a fool. Still harping on about this?
Leave the adjectives. We shall see how this (A7s prices/sales) plays out very soon, won’t we? 😉
What has ‘sales’ got to do with this nonsense you dribble?
A Fool is a noun. Foolish is an adjective.
The Sony A7s is “Superlative”, Superb, Sensational, Sony!
Yeah, but that would have thrown off the 1:1 4K readout and 2:1 HD readout that is a serious selling point of the camera.
Has anyone demonstrated the advantages of those?
Are you being serious? Or are you from the Nikon Df school of thought? (i.e. “we’ll pay more for a camera that CAN’T shoot video”)
EDIT: … just in case you are … YES it has been demonstrated. YES there is an advantage it virtually eliminates moire and aliasing from video.
ALSO speaking of demonstrations: do you have anything to back up the claim that this is the D3 sensor? Pixel count does not a sensor make my friend.
I am a certified luddite and if that qualifies being the Nikon Df (though I do not use Nikon cams anymore), yes I am! 🙂
So, it is the moire problem being taken care of. Thanks for the info!
One company that specializes (forgot the name) in ripping open sensors will show if it is the old D3 sensor or something else, when these cams are available. We already know that the A7/7R sensors are tweaked sensors used by Nikon a while back in their cams. Newer microlenses also does not mean that the sensors themselves are brand new, don’t you think?
I agree that the A7 sensors are not new but they are current gen if not cutting edge. The D3 is at least a generation behind and I don’t think incorporates any of Sony’s semi recent innovations like Exmor, etc.
“For stills the high iso is good…but only 12mp I consider a minus.”
It’s a package deal. High ISO ( or clean moderately high ISO) and high resolution are currently mutually exclusive.
I wonder if Sony could offer a pixel-binning mode for the A7r that would shoot at lower res and reduce low light noise. Nokia does this with their Pureview phones and it does improve low light results.
My understanding is that’s a software binning. No reason you couldn’t do that with an A7R raw file. Take a bit more time but that’s what automation/macros are for!
‘For stills the high iso is good…but only 12mp I consider a minus.’
Not a minus. Buy two. 24MP.
Admin, you said ghost…..that feature alone would make me buy 7s + 50mm f0.95 😉
I see them selling loads and loads … for paranormal research!!!
The important thing will not be how much noise at super stupid ISO’S, it will be how clean and how well the colour information is retained at moderate-high ISO’s for me this is the difference that this sensor will bring to the table. I don’t expect it to be that much cleaner, certainly compared to downsampled A7R etc, but the colour fidelity should be much better, much better than anything that has come before… that will be the kicker.
Those expecting whole stops of gain in noise performance will be disappointed, not going to happen, but the DR and colour at ISO’S 6400-25600 should be much improved.
Agree.
I am sometimes photographing meetings/events from my client, and I would like to get rid of using a flash as of this being very disturbant to the people.
In order to get 1/60 from 1s I need to raise ISO by 6 stops which equals ISO6400, sometime I need 1/120 or 1/250. So I would be exactly in the range you are mentioning (6400-25600).
If DR and colours are acceptable at these settings, and the samples are convinving, then I will go and get the A7s.
I, for one, will NOT buy this camera. I am cancelling my preorder because I detect some noise and the photo is NOT SHARP at ISO 409,600.
Here here! I expected this camera to have perfect noise performance at ISO 409,600 as that is what Sony personally guaranteed me. Furthermore, on closer inspection this POS only focussed down to -4ev.. what use is that!? Useless camera 😉 Not only have I cancelled my pre order I have insisted that Sony dump the whole batch in the ocean. Oh and light leaks and where are my lenses Sony!? Geez 😉
Well. They can sell these to people who do not care about Image Quality.
Here’s the counter-argument. Low-res cameras like the a7S are perfect for the selfies I post on Twitter. Now I can photograph my friends passed out under tables in dark bars with acceptable levels of graininess. I’m a photo nerd so any price for this capability is a bargain for the bragging rights over the amazing specs alone. ;^)
I’ve got 2 on pre-order so I can photograph with both hands to ensure I don’t miss that shot if I’m drunk! ;^)
You know, I’m confused by who is serious and who is joking in this thread.
Simple. Everybody is.
The only bottomline is- those who would open up their wallet to buy one to use it for applications they already know where this will be useful. All this depend on how the camera is priced and what it really delivers. It is a bit sketchy at the moment just like the leaks about the speculative prices. 🙂
I know you can’t wait to take your first ghost portrait in the dark…
No worries, the price might be even cheaper than the a7, never know!
Haha. It is all just meta-scarcasm
Yeah, I know. But I also know some SAR readers will take it seriously 🙂
This will be amazing for vacation sandwiches in dim restaurants!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ha! HA!! I like!!! I like!
And what is this, 2003? 12MP … should be 54MP by now.
Here’s another test from announcement from HK
http://unwire.hk/2014/05/07/sony-a7s-review/dc/
This camera will have it’s place, and it will be a game changer. I often work in press situations where one page images are the largest size needed, and most images are only 5×7 or smaller.
The pixel count is more than enough for this work, and if flash can be reduced or eliminated that is what really matters. If Canon & Nikon do not match this they will lose a large segment of the market (press photographers)
Why are there so many complainers about this camera? This camera is not for everybody, but it will be the best camera choice for many.
“Why are there so many complainers about this camera?”
It’s just the usual FF flamebois. Their Canikon boffins are behind the 8-ball again. They have nothing to offer but sky-high prices, beau-coup ballast, and dated technology. This is their only sputtering response to the competition.
Over on 43 rumors they harp and carp about FF sensor size smallness, but they have to change their tactics against the Sony FF offerings so they post here with new nonsense about how the Sony sensor produces too much superfluous data . . . . One pixel better than Nikon or Canon is wasted . . . . one pixel less than Canikon is garbage and junk and won’t take pictures. This/These FFs (FukFreeks) are sputtering inanities because it’s hard to be consistent when one proclaims himself to be a LiarsBrigade, (explains the 100’s of other imposters who form his AMen corner.)
Where do you come up with this stuff? First off, guarantee that most of M43rd’s users have a full frame as well. They don’t have to change their tactics because most of them don’t have any. Have you even been on the 43rumors website? They spend most of their time bashing micro four thirds cameras- were have I seen that before? Oh yes, right here…Sony bashing central. That’s what owners do, they complain. It’s called human nature.
No kidding. Everyone eats their young and no one says thank you when handed a towel to wipe the blood from their face. The people here (myself included) are the ones *not* taking pictures or shooting video right now. All these insanely caustic and belligerent posts about a camera model? Our generation is shiitt. I want to forgive my a65 for letting it collect dust and forget about new gear altogether. It’s kit lens works just fine, too. 😉
I’m of the camp that believes if you don’t print most any camera will do. Heck, even wedding photo’s these days mostly end up on facebook. 12MP is plent fine, but I’m not sure for stills if this camera is worth it for the lack of noise. Well, for portrait photography, if the DR really takes a big jump then less banning I guess. Thats great for dramaric lighting situations but can’t even remember the last time I nticed it was a problem.
You’re right, 12mp is in fact the sweet spot for either apsc or ff (and for large prints), but most won’t ever believe that, but it lets the rest of us buy these cameras for a song and take better photos, while the herd keeps churning cameras every 6 months, never learning any of them, and always thinking the next newest camera will be the holy grail.
You can say 12MP is “the sweet spot” for APS-C or you can say it is for FF… that’s your personal choice. But as soon as you say it’s the sweet spot for _both_, it doesn’t make sense… everything else aside, a 12MP image from a FF most definitely is not the same as a 12MP image from a APS-C sensor.
This camera is going to be amazing for my video work. I can avoid bringing lights to a shoot in most situations. Since I can’t afford lights I have to rent them, the savings alone and ease in workflow covers a lot of the cost of this camera. As long as it’s sub 2500…if it’s over that….I’ll definitely have to wait.
I guess this is the adult industry…
Remember this is still firmware v0.01 so it’s very early, performance might be improved slightly in the production model but even so this is pretty impressive 🙂
I hope they make an A mount with this sensor. I need the high ISO more than I need MP.
Okay, I don’t read chinese, can someone enlighten me as to what I’m looking at in the samples? Are these blowups of a larger picture, and what is the larger picture and how much light was illuminating the image…. These look fine to a point but then I’m not sure of the conditions so I’m not sure how hard the camera was having to work.
How does the admin know that there will be any noticable improvement in the final firmware?
Admin has become a salesman in the last weeks. Giving praise to everything Sony does…
This is his site, he is entitled to everything he wants to convey….
That is fine by me as long we get some news ahead of time. I am anticipating the RX2 with the curved sensor and the rumored Medium format cam. Perhaps those will be at the Photokina. I can wait.
No one is obliged buy anything that Sony make or the Admin promotes. 🙂
The only way people test this is by looking at noise.
I could live with more noise if this could get me a more usable dynamic range and more accurate colors under high ISOs. I feel photos are harder to work with than usual JPGs when the ISO gets pushed too high, even when using RAW.
Yay, by next release we’ll hit ISO 1,000,000!
did sony officially price the a7s? what is the price?