It’s Christmas time and I have to give you some sort of nice present 😉
One of the most requested cameras is the fullframe version of the NEX-7. And I have good news for you…although the camera will be much different than you expected!
A couple of sources confirmed that Sony will launch a hybrid AlphaNex mount camera in 2012! Also external sources (like here on Xitek) got the same news. The main goal of that new camera is to unify both worlds, the Alpha and NEX. These are the characteristics of the camera:
– Alpha mount camera with built-in compatible E-mount (no-external adapter needed!). Current NEX lenses will work in “crop mode”.
– Full Frame sensor.
– [shoplink 8454]NEX-7[/shoplink] alike design, just a bit bigger.
– Built-in new generation OLED viewfinder
– global shutter
It’s also important for you to know that there will not be a Full Frame E-mount camera. That AE hybrid camera will be the “fullframe NEX” camera we are waiting for. The camera is already available in different prototypes. So specs can still change but the concept as a whole has been approved and will hit the market in 2012. I guess it will be announced in September at Photokina.
I still don’t know how this hybrid mount works but as I told you weeks ago an idea like that has been already realized with the Zeiss Ikon Contax I, II and III that can still be found [shoplink 10295 ebay]here on eBay[/shoplink].
One more thing: join us here: https://www.facebook.com/sonyalpharumors
—
Reminder (SR = Sonyrumor):
SR1=probably fake rumor
SR2=rumor from unknown sources
SR3=50% chance it is correct
SR4=rumor from known sources
SR5=almost certainly correct!
191 Responses
Should I cancel my NEX-7 order? Will it accept the Leica / Voigtlander lenses to cover the full frame sensor? Please more details Andrea …
No! Keep the NEX-7!!!
Great times ahead. BTW, Hellven, do you remember?: FF NEX will never happen !!!
no, it will never happen, from this rumor, what you’ll get is a camera that has to be as thicker as any A-mount camera, but that can also take E-mount lenses(?? who wants to put a e-mount lens in a A-mount camera??), its not a Nex… its an hybrid or frankenstein or a failure or a rumor… is just me or this camera doesnt make any sense!?
If I takes the positives, it would be an as thick as a900 but significantly smaller. Has a top left corner EVF, Panny L1 style. That would be amazing. (Fuck E-Mount!)
Yes it will, as it must have flange focal distance same as E-mount.
This is reason why I dont have NEX. 🙂 I was waiting and hoping for mirrorless full-frame.
I actually dont care if it will be able to take Leica M, as long as it will be able to use any dSLR or just SLR lens. With focus peaking. 🙂
Now that’s interesting!
Can’t wait to learn more about it 🙂
If it’s supposed to be combination of A and E mount it should have both PDAF and CDAF so it would imply similar technology to the one used on nikon 1 series.
A dream comes true…
“Alpha mount camera with built-in compatible E-mount (no-external adapter needed!).”
How is that supposed to work? Either it’s A-mount, or it’s E-mount. If it’s one, you need an adapter for the other.
wondering too, the Emount has a flangeback distance of 18mm, Alpha of 44,5 mm and the E-Mount Lenses are to big to fit in the A-mount to arrive the right flangeback distance
How about an A-mount that can be “opened” (e.g. with a lever) to make room for the E-mount lens?
Let´s wait for further information. An E-mount body as a basis with optional A-mount use would be easier to imagine, but they are obviously going the other way.
Hey guys out there, could anybody please make a better translation of the original Chinese text on Xitek?
A conspiracy theorist once told me that the sensor can move forward and backward to adjust flange distance.
Now that I think about it, it can actually do focus in-body on traditional non-floating element lenses. AF on practically all legacy lenses and most modern lenses? What’s not to like?
Not to mention that it can make any short flange lens(E-mount especially) to be a macro lens. Whoa…..if…only……
Contax did that too. I think the camera was called Contax AX or something. The film (or sensor?) would move forward and back, and it would autofocus manual lenses. Contax went belly-up shortly afterwards, it probably was too expensive and too complicated.
Cost was about the same as the RTS III. so it was a fully pro-level camera.
Kyocera gave up on cameras when digital came along, I don’t think the AX made a lot of difference either way.
You, sir…. has hit the jackpot! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjgV34PzKTA
In film, you have to move whole spool of film with the shutter too. But in digital it would be just the sensor. So it wouldn’t be so hard to do.
Carl is right, that camera didn’t make a difference. Contax cameras were super-low volume in either case and when their digital N1 failed Contax were bust.
The AX couldn’t AF with all lenses, you had to “zone focus” with some so the AF could do its work inside that zone, so moving the sensor to get focus isn’t a good idea. Moving the sensor to accomodate different mounts is a better idea but I think the already existing autofocusing adapters are a much better idea.
@froo
Of course the application won’t be 100% like AX. The existing lens will do focus on lens just like before, albeit with added macro capabilities. And the legacy manual lenses will have CDAF that doesn’t get affected to zone focus.
No one actually said contax is good either. Their cameras looks like dinosaur sometimes. Though arguably the zeiss portfolio is by far the best of any 35mm SLR, rangefinder and medium formats.
Trust in the ingenuity of Sony engineers =D
confused…so it’s basically an A-mount camera that you can put an E-mount lens on? sounds sort of silly coming from the DSLR side of things…or is it a NEX with a built in PDAF adapter?
it’s cool merging the systems, but it seems like there’s going to be some sacrifice, like size, like ability to mount RF lenses, etc…
actually, on a second thought, it seems like the selling point of this camera is that it’s going to be an SLT-DSLR camera that looks like NEX-7 (RF like)
‘sounds sort of silly coming from the DSLR side of things’
But it sounds like an upgrade coming from the NEX side of things.
Goooosh, SONY, PUT IBIS inside!!!
+100
+100.000
+100.000.000
Wait, what’s an IBIS?
In Body Stabilisation
So it’s a migration path from E-mount shooters to A-mount? That’s the only way I can see it: as a bridge. Because nobody would get this camera and then buy NEX lenses, but one who already have the NEX-5/N or the NEX-7 might get this cam and use some if his E-mount lenses early on. I don’t really get it beyond that, but I love the idea of a NEX with A-mount so that’s how I’m gonna look at it until we have some clarification.
The rumour is also that it’s a little bit bigger than the NEX-7. If so, this is pretty revolutionary for an a-mount body. It will be the smallest a-mount body to date, even smaller than the a33/a55/a35. Plus, you’ll be able to mount future e-mount pancakes to it for when you want to go ultra portable.
makes perfect sense.
It would be the smallest digital FF camera (bar Leica, if I am not mistaken).
The point with Sony is always the same: lenses. Where are they?
The M9 is bigger than it really should be. I don’t know why they don’t make a digital M mount camera in an MP size body, or even something smaller.
@Admin
No FaceBook please! I absolutely dislike their privacy policy (do they have a PRIVACY policy at all?) and their way to deal with user data. I would never join Facebook, and I guess, there are many others who think similar…
Best regards, thank you for your good work keeping us informed and – have a nice christmas time.
Peter
+1
😀
So don’t leave your data on Facebook, Peter. Kind of obvious isn’t it?
EXACTLY!!!!
This right here folks.
I just can’t understand all this free advertisement for Facebook and why would the owner of any website give them their users and traffic (basically it’s saying to the users of a site you have complete control over to go away to other you can’t control at all and that will profit from your own content… how smart is this?). Thanks $deity all my browser add-ons block all those annoying Facebook and Twitter buttons and widgets that pop up everywhere. Hopefully they are a fad and they will die in a couple of years (it happens, there are plenty of services that where so popular just a few years ago and now hardly anyone remembers). If people want to use those services, fine, the problem is that I’m constantly bombarded with their ‘free’ advertisement everywhere I go with my browser. A big thank you to WidgetBlock, Ghostery, ABP, Disconnect… You brought my Internet back!
Yes, no FB please.
I agree no Facebook, I’m not on Facebook and never will be.
How odd. Facebook only collect the information you enter, just like any other site. Create a Facebook account with bogus information, job done, no privacy concerns.
Well, if you don’t want to support facebook, you don’t want to do this. And there’s no need…so why this discussion?!
But really, Sony should capitalize on it’s edge in supporting third party lenses with this camera, not locking it down to E-mount/A-mount but ideally supporting for example M-mount in non-cropped mode.
If the design is how it seems to be, there’ll be no technical barrier to doing that, though I doubt Sony will offer support for uncropped E mount from day zero.
Even if they do do it, I would keep my expectations for the corner performance of symmetrical wide angles low. M mount telephotos like the Leica 90AA and M-Rokkor 90/4 should work without issue, of course.
We dont want a translucent mirror in a FF-NEX!!!
I don’t understand this ‘No Facebook’ stuff! All you have to give is a name (doesn’t have to be your real one) and an e-mail address (again – totally anonymous).
Get over it!!
Indeed!
So, each time I want to read photo news, I have to log into FB ?
What a waste of time !
Besides I’d prefer the admin to put Google adwords there, he can’t do it on FB.
Does this new camera still allow for the use of Leica/Voigtlander lenses in FullFrame mode? I’m sold on the E-mount because you can mount anything to it. I just want to get the full use out of my legacy lenses. Keep it FullFrame all around!
I’m buying it! This could be a dream come true if it is real. A lenes on full frame and I could still use E-lenses which I allready boght. It will probably have huge 24-36MP on full frame which still leaves enough resolution on crop mode. I can’t wait!!!
I’m struggling to think how this hybrid will work. The flange focal distance is much shorter on e-mount compared to A-mount, so how do they deal with that?
Would they have to either make the NEX lenses go futher into the camera in order to get them close enough to the sensor, or will there be some kind of system that allows the sensor to move? Until I see the real thing, it sounds kind of messy.
It could have an E mount with extra contacts and an A mount adaptor fitted by default – instead of the adaptor being an optional extra.
I have to say that the A mount is of no interest to me at all. I don’t have any A mount lenses and do not intend to buy any. Ever.
My interest would be in using legacy 35mm lenses (with the currently available E mount adaptors) on a larger sensor than APS-C. There could be an option to crop the sensor for use with lenses that cover only APS-C (or even less, as for some C-mount lenses).
If Sony bring out a NEX-7 type camera with a bigger sensor, then I will probably buy one.
I agree, basicly a NEX7 with full frame sensor and prepared for an included and better integrated alpha adapter. KISS style (keep it simple stupid!)
Any nex Lens on alphamount will act like an extreme macro (like a 20mm extension rings)
There’s no way around that, the current rumour is impossible
Only if the E mount had the same flange as A mount. If they were going to design such a camera the first thing they would work on would be a way to support two flange distances that were 26.6mm apart.
Hi Andrea,
thanks for the blog – a great tool for keeping up with Sony Alpha news.
just one thing – please don’t provide content exclusively on facebook. A lot of us have serious issues with facebook (e.g. its privacy practices) and refuse to join. Don’t leave us out!
thanks.
Of course!
Facebook is the biggest spying machine ever build. Be careful.I’m not paranoic, but if anybody wants to spy on me better spend some time and money doing it, not get everything ready.Using a fake email is not solving the problem as they record your IP and can easy trace it back to you (I know that Andrea can also see my IP when I post, but somehow I trust more him than Facebook 🙂 ).
Have no intention of using Facebook, any time soon.
What exactly do you think Facebook or Hotmail are going to do with an IP address that can be assigned to ANYBODY within your ISP on any given day/week/month/year?
I can understand that view in some dodgy country that cut your hands off for a trivial crime, but in any “normal” country (unless you are doing something illegal) your IP address is useless for commercial companies to spy on you.
Do you wear a tinfoil hat so that “they” can’t read your thoughts?
Hhahahaha. Love that comment!
Peter.paranoia@pointless.com
I never leave my tinfoil, except when take a shower…so I don’t understand why black helicopters are flying over my house 🙁
Biggest spying agency? Shouldn’t that be Google? I hope you don’t use Chrome, an Android phone, or ever do any internet searches. They already know where you live.
I don’t use Chrome.I don’t use a smart phone.Unfortunately I do internet searches and Google knows where I live (they even have a photo of my house) :(. However probably they don’t know how I look (yet) as I don’t keep my photos online.
Still, Facebook is number one in my list of evil things.
I live in Kanagawa Prefecture, but my IP is Aichi Prefecture IP :p :p …
I’m with Peter & Simon above for the same reasons.
Please do not move your comments to Facebook. Instead direct your facebookers over to http://www.sonyalpharumors.com
It could be an awesome camera. There’s a laundry list of ways they could screw it up, though. Something light and compact that I can attach my 28/2 to and put into my jacket pocket would be a nice alternative to my big and heavy A900.
I’ll believe the bit about the global shutter when I see it.
I too am having huge problems understanding how this would work. The flange distances on the A and E mounts are radically different, and there are only three ways of dealing with that. First the sensor could be moved, secondly there could be some complex operation whereby in A-mount mode, the flange would have to telescope outwards to make up the difference or, thirdly, some form of optical correction is introduced into the image path (which I would consider highly undesirable as it’s bound to produce sub-optimal results).
In any event, there would have to be some considerably complexity at the flange to allow both E-mount and A-Mount lenses to be attached via their relevant bayonet fittings and electrical contacts. Then, if the A-Mount mode is to work with PAF then either Sony will have had to crack the PAF on main sensor issue (very difficult with large sensor-flange distances), or a mirror of some sort would have to be introduced.
In all, it’s a mechanical nightmare. It’s bound to be heavy, complex and bulky. I can’t image it would be worth doing just to facilitate mounting the very limited range of E-Mount lenses (although it would open up the world of legacy lenses of other mounts).
To be honest, it makes no sense are all. Bulky, complex and expensive.
What I would think is more likely is a modular system which might allow different body parts to be attached to a core sensor, electronics, controls, battery and EVF core. That could allow for a (relatively) compact core with an E-Mount shell which could be swapped out for an A-Mount shell. The A-Mount shell would incorporate the PAF, SLT,lens mount etc.
So if there is any truth in this rumour, then I think it’s much more likely to be a modular system than a single body hybrid mount which I think is, frankly, unworkable and pointless.
I think the only way to work is to have some kind of removable integrated adaptor like the one used now for A-lenses. Probably it will be smaller and better integrated with the camera that the current one, so when in use it will not look like an add on piece but part of the camera, in fact it will look like an extension of the lens. I don’t see any other way, as e-mount lenses must be much closer to sensor than a-mount ones. As they need to include the mirror inside (if not current lenses for A-mount will be very slow to focus) I don’t think it can be some kind of opening to let the emount inside as other sugested.
I think the existing adaptor (the lates one with mirror inside) is the testing ground, and it explains why it was released ( I think they sell some but not enough to justify the development cost if they did not have intention to use it for something else).
This makes the most sense to me.
There is one exception, but this will not come in 2012 but probably may came a few years later: If you can do PDAF in sensor (with the same accuracy as the mirrorr allows now) you don’t need a mirror at all, and you can use some kind of colapsible opening, but again technology is not there yet, and contrast focus with current A-lenses is a no go.
That’s mega news for the whole mirrorless world, not just for Sony.
I Join the chorus, no Facebook please! Or at least keep both of them. Why log in to a site to then go to what you want to see, when you can go directly to the blog?
Congratulations on the good work! Perhaps I will wait for this camera, as Sony now says that the Nex-7 (sonystore) ships after April, 12. I feel like I’m only going to get one in my hands my the middle of 2012, and that’s why I’m almost buying a 5n to compensate until then….
So this is a preview to complete mirrorless a-mount. Until the direct on-sensor PDAF is ready for a-mount to go completely mirrorless.
Maybe GXR style swappable mounts ?
If the E-mount is installed/activated/morphed into position, what is stopping Sony or a 3rd party from making a compact lens that covers the full frame sensor ?
What about an M-mount adapter that allows M lenses to be installed and take advantage of the full frame sensor ?
Wow, amazing news! 🙂
I see it in the way Steve Jones does. I mean that it’s no problem to trigger the movement of an optical system via phase detection or contrast detection, so there is no mirror necessary. The fange distance is the problem. It’s solved with the adapters you can buy for NEX. A full format NEX makes sense only with ff-a-lenses (or other legacy lenses) in the SLR-flange distance. I see no advance to the available adapter solution.
Agreed. Just give us a FF with A-mount in a NEX-styled body with no mirror and I’m happy. Of the options presented, if it’s a hybrid mount, I’m thinking they’ll move the sensor back and forth. Don’t think it will be a GXR approach.
You can’t have an A mount on a NEX-style body. The body would have to be much thicker, changing the whole shape of the camera (as happens when you attach the current A-mount adaptors).
The result is a camera almost as big as a DSLR.
All correct. The only way to solve the problems is to create ff-e-lenses. The result is a tiny body with a large sensor. With the existing constructions you’ll always have to use adaptors (integrated or refitted).
But shorter and narrower.
The 850/900 are much thicker than 44.6mm, so there’s room for slimming it down. It’s very noticable to compare thickness to my old Minolta XD. Even if the resulting camera was the size of, say, an Olympus OM-1, that would still be a major improvement in portability for someone who wanted a full frame street/travel camera.
Hi Andrea;
Do you know if that new camera is going to has a translucent mirror?
Btw, Nikon FF cameras (as far as I remenber) can switch automatically from FX (FF) to DX (APS-C) lenses (I think Canon can do that too, not sure about it though). So I can’t see why Sony would/should not do that.
I can use a bigger body so that it can be held properly! 😉
*If* they move the sensor back and forth, why not add movements (tilt and shift)as well for a good measure? 🙂
if true then the easiest explanation is most probable – I guess there will be a “built-in” removable Amount “adapter” as default FF solution and for emount in crop mode as secondary function you take it away hence it could be classified as “not external”.
Wow. I can’t imagine how it looks like but if Sony can build something like the NEX7 i’m pretty sure they can do more amazing things!
I love all the Rumor websites and check them out a few times a day. However, I am disappointed to hear you say you will be doing more and more on FB. I, for one, do not really like FB, do very little on it, and generally resent so many people and companies pushes to drive viewers to their FB pages. You have a great interactive blog right here — which I, for one, really enjoy. But I will definitely miss out on your great stuff that you may post on FB. I have actually always considered FB to be a bit creepy. I may be in the minority, as shown by the sites popularity, but I would ask that the info be mirrored here.
it an ff sensor. but e-mount lens will become crop because shorter distance. a-mount will be ff. the a mount adapter will be bundle with the camera itself. detachable. so i think.
OMG. OMG. OMG. If it’s true, and if it works I am totaly sold. I would be in even for 3000 euros. Will it still be possible to use all third party lenses via adapters like on NEX?
A full-frame camera a little bit bigger than the NEX-7 with stabilizer (not a must, but good to have), focus peaking, perfectly usable EVF, possibility to mount Contax manual or Leica M lenses, and of course a tilable LCD… Sounds like my dream camera. I don’t care about NEX lenses if I can mount my faveourite manual ones on a full frame camera with focus peaking. Fuji’s upcoming ILC is really promising if it does have the rumored organic sensor but I fear it won’t have peaking, tiltable lcd and such which are great for my kind of shooting. But really exciting times indeed!
+1 !
Wow…..FF Sony camera with no translucent mirror? I just hope they keep that sensor at 24mp. That camera “should” be freakin amazing!
Really interesting if true !…
It’d be very smart from Sony to make such a camera body because a lot of people are waiting for a FF 24×36 Nex to use legacy lenses (m-mount, G or FD..) on it with adapters. Also with the A-mount they wouldn’t have to make a new line of E-lenses that cover FF and people that want a “small” body that still uses their A-mount lenses along with the E-mount ones…
But I can’t help being skeptical, it sounds so complicated and pricey to achieve (different flange distance, size…) !
Wait and see… 😉
Something wrong here – a “hybrid AlphaNex mount” seems virtually impossible. I suppose you could have a camera where the mount could be swapped – but the very small flange distance of the NEX E-mount would probably make that difficult.
Would the camera have sensor based stabilization? PD auto-focus?
Couldn’t it be possible that camera had A-mount flange distance, the longest and that E-mount lenses worked at that same distance from the sensor, but with crop factor?
There would be some light loss, but with bigger sensor, it shouldn’t be a problem if resolution is the same. Sensor, or mount would never change physical position.
Mounting E mount lenses at the A-mount flange distance wold be just like sticking a fat macro extension ring behind your lenses.
Your E-mount lenses might then be OK for macro work – but you probably wouldn’t be able to focus on anything more than a couple of feet away (if that).
Let’s wait for 2012!!!
Pity about the facebook thing. Will not join there, but good luck there.
+1
My bet is that this will be a dual sensor camera, with both a full frame and an APS-C sized sensor. When you attach an A mount lens, the aps-c sensor will move out of the way…
… The ff sensor can dumb itself down to the aps-c size, no need for two sensors …
This issue isn’t what the sensors can do, it’s the registration distance for the A-mount vs E-mount.
in that case, i would imagine they would still use a single FF sensor and allow it to adjust for registration if thats needed … i just cant imagine a “ferris wheel” of sensors to accomadate for every lens mount …
The problem with that is keeping the focal plane perfectly aligned to the lens in two dimensions simultaneously.
However, if they used a semi-transparent APS-C sized sensor in front of a FF sized one, or they used a translucent mirror to reflect light to a second sensor, problem solved.
transparent sensor??
Also alpha lenses are designed for both aps-c and/or ff sensors, unlike NEX lenses …
Some Alpha lenses are designed to be used on APS-C sensors, most of the new ones in fact. They can be attached to a full frame body but I do not know if you just darken/fuzz in the corners or the body does something more complex like auto-cropping.
The camera crops the image.
Congratulations! That is quite probably the most stupid camera-related idea anyone has ever had.
Wouldn’t mind it if they went for a more traditional look for this new hybrid body versus their current contemporary style.
Great news if, and only if :
Microlenses technology sensor to accept M-Mount lenses.
I wonder if the Sony designers have any wide angle Leica lenses for testing? They may not have.
I’m sure they have. The question is: Is it worth to implement microlenses on the sensor for a small minority of users who would use it with Leica M lenses? It certainly adds to the development costs which also makes the final selling price higher. The NEX-5N has microlenses but who knows, maybe because others like Ricoh ordered the same sensor with microlenses and it was economical to develop it this way for everyone, including themselves. But I do hope the new sensor will have microlenses.
All modern sensors use a micro lens array of some kind, as sensels are quite deep even non-wide lenses would have corner issues without them. It’s just a matter of how aggressive the MLA should be.
… So its a NEX 7 with a FF sensor that can “dumb” itself down for the crop sensor glass used on previous NEX’s … but now it has a hybrid bunghole for FF glass to fit without the fairly inexpensive adapter that already exists in the NEX 7. No real new technology here so far. I dont see how this is gonna kick Canon / Nikon in the butt as you stated on Facebook …
You’re obviously a troll. Things start to get hot under your feet, canikon dude. Don’t they?
yes, I am a troll, (rolls eyes) but all i own is a sony. Personally, I think all camera brands do “something” better than the next in some aspect and “ideally” i think it would be benificial to own them all … just as a craftsman owns many different tools … but thats unrealistic in most peoples cases. But for you to insinuate that sony is making me feel “hot under the feet” for some lame idea that sony is proposing is just mad corny … sony has come a long way and i think they put out the best bang for the buck … but this idea is garbage! Seems like sony is trying find a way to give their consumsers access to all their glass from owning 1 camera rather than making something better … stop being such a sony fanboy and act like a photographer …
Sony really needs to pick a lens mount and roll with it, they need to get their lowlight iso’s on par with everyone else and stop with this foolish lens size variation/ hybrid fitting mumbo jumbo … its not adding any real capability in my opinion …
Sony NEX-5n is on par or even better than everyone else in terms of lowlight ISO performance.
I’d agree with that statement for its price class …
Sony is stuck with two mounts until they decide it’s time to kill the A mount. That’s the road they’ve taken and it’s too late to change their mind now.
well as long as it’s FF, plays nice with leica/ZM glass (mount and sensor wise) and isn’t significantly bigger than the NEX-7 (otherwise just get a dSLR) then I’m in… well the IQ obviously has to be there too… please no 900mpx sensors! 20-30mp in 35mm is fine enough for just about anything…. just concentration on both low ISO quality/DR and high ISO Sony! Oh, and please give us IBIS on this one 😉
It will be nice a new Alpha REFLEX with the possibility to “remove” (by an option) the translucent mirror! You may have a reflex with the image quality of a NEX. Of course this impact to the focus speed (better and more accurate with translucent mirror).
I don’t like the form factor of a NEX, I prefer ever a reflex body to make photos.
Electronic shutter will be appreciated also 🙂
so it is not an SLT, it will use contrast detection?
This camera is another shot at Canon and Nikon. First the SLT, then the NEX, then the hybrid mount. Here are three significant innovations that the big two have failed to respond to. They continue to make bigger and more expensive top end cameras but Sony does seem to have some insight into other camera niches that the big boys have ignored.
Nikon and Canon, beware!
I’ve written a post on how I think this hybrid camera could work here:
http://www.themosthandsomemanintheworld.com/2011/12/22/how-sonys-hybrid-nexalpha-camera-works/
It seems to me that it’ll essentially be a fullframe nex-7 with the Alpha adapter attached, albeit it the focus motor will be in the body, so the adapter will be more integrated. Pop off the adapter and you can throw on e-mount lenses, and the sensor crops like on the A900.
I think (3) is extremely unlikely. I don’t see how you can put a mirror in the E-Mount path at all (as the sensor to flange is so short at 18mm). You certainly can’t install a 45 degree mirror to redirect the image to the roof or floor. Even if in E-Mount mode, it didn’t have a mirror, and one was somehow inserted into an A-Mount path, then it would have to be slotted into that same narrow space and then, somehow, redirected back to the original sensor using some strange path. I simply don’t see how it could possibly work. It’s also inevitably very bulky and is likely to adversely affect image quality.
My feeling is that if this camera does/will exist, it will be modular with a central core of sensor, electronics, storage, controls and battery to which you can attach “shells” with a (compact) E-Mount shell and a larger A-Mount one complete with all the stuff required to allow PAF to work.
I realise the original article says no adapters, but it might be that if these are really part of a modular body system they wouldn’t be so described.
3.seems complicated
2.as you said, seems redundant
1.seems logical – but goes against the info we have
There’s a fourth option, that the mount telescopes outwards, but the sensor is fixed.
The third option you listed is basically unworkable in a usable camera.
Не надо Е! Пусть только А! Большая камера – это хорошо! Не надо 36Mp!!! Max – 24Mp. Лучше – меньше 24Mp!
Будут, как обещают, и простые зеркалки на замену A900. А гибрид может оказаться интересным. 🙂
This is terrific news. A FF A-mount body WITHOUT a translucent mirror! Image quality rules! My faith in Sony has been restored. Although that faith might be shaken if it doesn’t have in-body image stabilization, like my a850.
Now FF folks know what the replacement for the a900 will be. They sure have a pile of stuff to add to do it. Like a proper Sony/Minolta hotshoe for instance. If it’s only got what the NEX 7 has it’s going to be disappointing.
NEX-7 has the standard Sony hotshoe, same as alfa line. What is missing ?
A pentaprism, perhaps?
Well, it’s a funny thing but if Sony really wanted to make that an option they could make an adapter (call it the LA-EA5). It would consist of an OVF/reflex mirror system along with a very complicated software fix for the NEX camera that would turn the whole into an SLR. Probably cost about $1,000, but a few folks might go for it. But probably most folks would just get a Nikon or Canon. From my point of view (as a non-action shooter) a full frame mirrorless NEX with the SLR controls and SSS would be just about the nicest camera I could imagine.
Such an adaptor would basically be a Visoflex.
It could have a moveable sensor, as well as an adjustable mount ring. the sensor moves closer in E mount mode,and the mount ring adjust from A to E mode. ….. maybe
IF true this camera will be interesting. It might not be too large. Hoping for the same size of old film cameras with Minolta mount.
But the odd thing to see will be the E mount (18mm flange with 46.1mm mouth) inside an A mount (44.5 flange with 49.7mm mouth). That only leaves 3.6mm grace for 26.5mm inside the mount. Are NEX lenses that thin for that long, I think not. So New NEX lenses to be made or the mouth opens up. I hope for the mouth opening some how. The All lenses can be mounted again. IF the mouth does not open, then M-mount lenses could not be used. As lens setting would be inside the camera and very hard to adjust.
Something is weird here… The E-flange diameter of 46.1mm may seem large enough to “nest” the 36x24mm FF sensor however taking into consideration of the pins lined on the bottom portion it seems rather impossible to align the FF-size sensor on the axis of lens. Cut a piece of paper of 36x24mm size, mark the center and try to locate it inside the E-mount and see… And don’t forget to allow 3mm around the periphery for the sensor connections.
Although this sounds a good idea, I have mix feelings. It seems you can see it from 2 angle. You can see this as a A-mount camera which can take E mount lens, or a E-mount camera which can take A-mount lens. Either way is the same. But I am a bit disappointed because I just bought the LA-EA2 adapter on my NEX. If I came to know this rumor earlier, I won’t do this, but just wait to get that camera. So, it seems my LA-EA2 will become a obsolete product that the market value will drop significantly.
Sorry to hear that. But hey, your adapter has PDAF module in it, this new hybrid uses CDAF. Maybe you can use your LA-EA2 on it? 🙂
Can it be a collapsible mount design? Lens mount can accept both A and NEX lens. it can extend out when A mount lens is used. No mirror between lens and sensor. AF will be rely on contrast detection or on sensor phrase detection.
This is just nonsense. Different flange focal distances…
The E-Mount can easily fit inside the A-Mount. Set further back, and the angle of light will be fine too.
Hmm, I wonder if this would be the reason why all (?) the E-mount lenses are such flat tubes – easy insertation. If possible, interesting idea. I imagie the image circle of at least some (ie. the zeiss 24) is large enough for FF.
Zeiss 24/1.8? Not really, it’s that much smaller than the FF Zeiss 24/2.
No, it cannot “easily” fit. in fact, not even the bayonet flanges fit into each other, far less THE ENTIRE LENS. Seriously, what are you people smoking?
PLEASE SONY!!!
Put a shutter release on THE FRONT for more comfortable vertical shooting…
Like the Topcon Super D
http://www.taunusreiter.de/Cameras/Topcon%20Super%20D.jpg
And Fuji 6×9
http://www.antiquecameras.net/images/700_f690.jpg
Even the new Fuji X looks to have a shutter button on the front.
http://photorumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/fuji-mirrorless-camera5.jpeg
Please do this Sony. 99% of my work is vertical. This front button is ideal and much better than off balance vertical add on grips. Your current NEX-7 shutter release is inadequate for comfortable vertical shooting.
Perhaps I am not getting the whole picture…
But… Really, I could not understand the goal behind such approach…
A-mount users looking for fast PDAF and more lenses database (and…)
E-mount users are looking for a ompact body (somehow with similar IQ as A Mount)
Such a system will not solve at all the lack of both systems compared each others… i.e.
– Bulky system for A mount not solved
– Fast AF and more lenses choices for E mount not solved
As far as I can understand offering A-mount compatibility for E-mount users via adapters.
As far as I do not see any interest offering E-mount compatibility for A-mount users.
(even if I could imagine fliping mirror for CDAF E-mount lenses and moving for flange distance reduction)
There are A mount users who want a compact body, and there are E mount users who want on-sensor PDAF.
I have to agree with some of the comments wondering about the usefulness of e-mount compatibility for A-mount users. But I like to think of it as a bonus; what I care is that we get a completely mirrorless a-mount, slightly bigger than NEX-7, so that when we use 70-200 or 70-400 it feels well balanced and rock solid combo. I hope the hybrid mount will be strong enough to mount such big teles without jiggling and hopefully with a weather sealing. Otherwise I would wonder why not just make a mirrorless a-mount with EVF and without the complications of the hybrid mount?
Reading all this I think that:
– For a FF-NEX Sony should have made the E-lenses with larger screen-image-circle from the beginning on. With FF in future it will be necessary to open a new lens line. It’s analogue to FF / APS -lenses for the SLRs.
– The different flange distances of E and A must be considered and need for sure more installation space as e-mount allone.
– The use of FF-A-lenses on a FF-NEX could possibly require an other adapter as for the APS-sensor. I can’t evaluate if there would be something in the way of the light of the edge zone then. That’s, in my eyes, the only cause why Sony could think about “hybrid”-mount. The customers could eventually not use their recent bought A to E adapters!
– I see no matter NOT to buy a NEX-7 and use the available adapters for A-lenses
This is B.S rumor.
Not going to happen and no such thing.
It has to have a native mount and that means that the other lenses it accepts will be through an adaptation of some sort.
The alternative is that the camera has a removable mount but that is unlikely because such a contraption would not work well with heavy A-mount telephotos.
sony will have much more success making a ff mirrorless in e-mount, and then selling the a-mount adapters for dirt cheap. The genuine sony a-mount adapters are ridiculously overpriced for what they are. they should sell it for less than USD$20.00 (because it promotes their own lenses) and every nex owner would have one.
rather than trying for such a complicated hybrid mount that will still need the flange of the a-mount and room for the mechanical hybrid transforming mount.
with e-mount, you can use any and all types/brands of lenses through inexpensive adapters. and thats why the nex cameras became so powerfully popular in the first place.
Exactly where I think this idea is going. I believe that the ‘active’ components of the A-Mount adapter will be in the body and it will have a very simple ‘connector ring’ that simply passes that through to A-Mount glass. This will make the adapter much cheaper, or included as the AF motor etc will already be in body. A hybrid mount is too complicated to be worthwhile.
Sony are definitely moving to E-Mount, I have no doubt about it that they see that as the future of their cameras. The long distance future. But they also don’t want to burn their existing A-Mount customer base. I have said it before, soon enough ALL Alpha Cameras will be E-Mount, but they will maintain compatibility with A-Mount.
Sony keep improving their A-Mount adapters? Why if nobody wants them? Because it needs to work well enough to enable them to drop A-Mount as their primary mount, that’s why! When an adaption method is good enough for the prime time, that is when it will happen and not before.
If Siny had no intention to do this, they would have created the LA-EA1 and left it as MF as every other manufacturer has done to date. (Not sure about Nikon yet). But they didnt, they added AF to SAM and SSM lenses, then they brought out the LA-EA2 which gives screw drive and PDAF. It is all about convincing owners to change over to E-Mount while feeling covered that they can use their A-Mount glass on there properly.
It has never been about convincing NEX owners that there is more glass available than the native E-Mount stuff – they know they are transitioning, they know they are making more E-Mount and that is where their future lays.
It will also be about making ‘hybrid’ mount buyers ok with the fact that they are no longer making new A-Mount lenses (eventually) because their camera already works with the new lenses.
I also believe that ‘hybrid’ mount will coincide with on sensor PDAF to give ‘hybrid’ CD/PD AF.
If you don’t believe me ask yourself – what has created so much hype around Sony imaging products lately? I mean if there were no NEX, the A77 and A65 etc would have been seen as a quirky, well made and interesting alternative to Canon and Nikon, but never gain that much traction. Minolta and Sony have been seen like this for years, great cameras, but the market is still owned by the 2 big players. Throw NEX back into the mix and Sony become much much more interesting! They offer incredibly high quality for the size/price and offer a system of products that nobody can compete with! A system that ranges from NEX-C3 up to FS100 with a huge amount of cross compatibility in between.
E-Mount (whether you love or hate it) is Sony’s future, this ‘hybrid’ mount is ensuring they don’t forget about their loyal customers. All the signs are there, it is a well trodden path, if you want a history lesson – look at Apple’s transition to OS X, or transition to Intel, or Sony to PS3. Providing backwards compatibility until eventually phasing out their legacy equipment.
It never got clear to me why the E-mount was introduced. If Sony had sticked with the A-mount, also for the Nex, a lot of adaptation problems would have been avoided. A relatively simple extension ring would have been enough, and the transition to FF would have been dead simple. Anyone?
Not carrying the burden of compatibility might have something to do with it. The old Minolta mount had to be compatible with old lenses with their small chip registers coming from an analog world, and even if this can be (and has been) extended with protocol overhauls, handshaking, or even extra pins it’s complicated.
Of course with the adapters this only moves the burden of compatibility to the adapter, but it reduces time-to-market for the camera. IIRC the original LA-EA1 was launched much later than the camera.
But generally I agree with you — choosing a standard extension tube size as registration difference would have been terribly nice.
But then stupid people would have mounted Alpha glass directly on the camera, destroying the sensor. 🙂
This is the camera I’ve been waiting for: a mirrorless cam with full-frame sensor. Well done, Sony. I’ll be hopping on your bandwagon next year. Simply brilliant.
Global Shutter
🙂 🙂
Full frame NEX? Global shutter? too good to be true. For now.
Hybird mount works like LA-EA1 adapter?
Why are some folks thinking a hybrid mount is impossible? It’s very possible… the E-Mount sits inside the A-Mount, set further back to account for registration difference. Why is that so hard to understand or accept?
Why do some folks think there needs to be an entirely new set of lenses for this? There doesn’t.
This provides a great upward path from APS-C to FF.
My request though is to be able to override the Auto Switching from FF to APS-C when E-Mount is used. An E-Mount Shift lens could take full advantage of the full frame sensor. But not if Auto Switching couldn’t be disabled.
@Clyde
“the E-Mount sits inside the A-Mount, set further back to account for registration difference. Why is that so hard to understand or accept?”
For the extremely good reason that the outside flange diameter of the E-Mount (which is effectively the minimum outside diameter of e-mount lenses) is far bigger than the throat diameter of A-Mount, without even considering the intrusion of the A-Mount electrical contacts and the shutter mechanism. It’s simply impossible to put an e-Mount lens completely through an A-Mount throat. In fact the E-Mount throat, at 46.1mm is only slightly smaller than the A-Mount’s at 49.7mm.
The E-Mount placement in your design would also prevent the use of any form of mirror, and it will almost certainly mask part of any FF sensor from the edges of wider A-Mount throat.
In other words, it’s so difficult to accept, because it’s impossible. Just try looking at the photo with this posting which is reasonably to scale.
A movable set of mounts might (just) be possible but with incredible difficulty and expense, but your proposal is clearly ridiculous as a couple of moments of thought would show.
Waiting to be surprised by Sony. Hopefully in a good way.
Oh Sony, I know how you like to be innovative and creative all the time, but then sometimes there’re fundamental things you really have to do it right before you go for all the “like.no.other” esque.
Juz came back from Su Zhou & Shang Hai, China for sort of a photographic business trip, didn’t bring my A850 with me because I wanna try out the all new A77 instead for field works, noise pops out dramatically on a gloomy Su Zhou morning day at ISO 640… It is sad, very sad, not to mention the details on the A77 is sub-par compared with the A850 even though the A850 is more noisier…
So dear Sony, not to say I’m a pixel peepers, juz make sure you don’t compromised IQ for all those innovative features on your next release…
Sign
One of the Sony Fanboys
Do you find it fair to compare an APS-C camera to a FF one?
LOL, not to say that I like to compare APS-C with FF, the DOF and Dynamic range might be different on each class, but then from some global image quality point of view, such as ISO, the A77 is really a let-down.
Sony has a tendency to have improved ISO performance on their next new body which the A77 seems to lack of (Maybe due to SLT mirror, probably), for example the A580’s ISO is somewhat better than the A850/A900 so as the A55, but then not for the case with A77. Maybe they just cramped too much pixels in one APS-C sensor, while forcing only 2/3 of the lights for the sensor to expose.
I don’t know, but for now, I think Sony should really sit down and rethink the integrity of their image quality, especially on the semi-pro/pro bodies rather than juz putting in more futuristic features. For the FF NEX case, I think it is unnecessary, because it is like putting a medium format Hasselblad in a point and shot form factor…
The idea seems to have the moveable back-forth sensor, so it can
– swich between focusing distances of the E-mount and A-mount lenses
– do the autofocusing using CDAF
So all the manual focus and PDAF lenses will be OK for autofocusing.
If they will keep sensor anti-shake as well, this will give also image stabilization for the non-stabilized lenses.
GREAT POTENTIAL!!!
I’m afraid if Sony gets too innovative with ‘wheel of fortune’ camera designs in 2012, they may well harm their current successes. ‘Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should’.
I am waiting for a full frame NEX with an EVF of essentially optical quality. A universal mount is a cute idea, as is the thought of using manual legacy lenses. However, that’s for a handful of enthusiasts. the NEX line needs a family of top quality, fully automatic OEM glass. NEX presently only has one quality lens; the overpriced 24f1.8 designed by Zeiss.
A full frame NEX for $1,500 needs three very good OEM zooms costing no more than $750 each and a set of excellent primes under $1,000 each.
Bengt, i think you’re over generalizing when it comes to lenses. Different people prefer different NEX/Alpha lens combinations. I prefer compact stabilized NEX primes for general use (let’s get to it Sony). And i don’t mind non-stabilized alpha lenses for landscape, portraits, and macro photography.
“I prefer compact stabilized NEX primes for general use (let’s get to it Sony)”
That’s what I said; Sony can not expect to sell the camera without offering a range of good, fully automatic OEM lenses.
That does not prohibit you from using whatever you want in addition.
Maybe the hybrid mount is just an modular mount concept,
so you have basically a sensor with all the electronics,
EVF, so an FF-NEX without mount (=Digiback).
To this digiback you can mount (click!) either
an E-Mountadapter or an A-Mount-Adapter (both would integrated into the digibacks design, so it look like a camera without adapter), like the Ricoh GXR body or even more like the Ricoh GXR M-Mount Modul, but wth the sensor in the body not in the module.
You then could even think of other (licensed) mounts…
That would allow for a compact design and on the other hand provide an enourmous range of lenses.
And, how many – do you think? – would prospects be ready to pay for this?
I think you’ve got it bull’s-eye right, since the two mounts would get in each other’s way otherwise (an E-mount lens would have to be mounted a few centimeters INSIDE the A-mount if they were there at the same time).
With the SLT-adapter already here, it will be easy to go on with a more modular concept – and Sony would be able to integrate Alpha and Nex systems into ONE system eventually.
If so, this is very good news, since this will make Sony’s efforts much more efficent.
Will it have steady shot for alpha lenses?
No
I mean: No, not if it follows the NEX line.
A full frame camera similar to the NEX-7 would be awesome – but why does it need E-mount compatibility? I suspect could be serious problems or limitations making lenses that cover full frame using the current E-mount. Why saddle a new larger format camera with those limitations? There is no good reason why mirrorless cameras with different sensor sizes need to share the same mount.
For a start, there are not exactly a whole lot of E-mount lenses out there – and all of them are only designed for APS-C. I think a mirrorless camera with a new mount specifically designed for full frame (which the E-mount isn’t) would be a much better idea.
Sure make the lenses for the new camera adaptable to the current APS-C E-mount cameras – but the other way round is not a requirement.
It might be nice if the flange distance could be short enough to adapt M-mount lenses – but I don’t think this is crucial. Some M mount lenses already have problems at the corners on current (APS-C) NEX cameras. The situation would be much worse with full frame.
The flange distance should be kept short enough so that almost any mf DSLR lens can be adapted (Pentax, Leica-R, Nikon-F, Contax-Yashica, …), – and make an adapter for A mount that retains full functionality.
Even without being able to adapt 35mm rangefinder lenses, there are hundreds of good 35mm SLR lenses that could be adapted.
Putting IBIS in the body would be a big plus over the current NEX cameras.
On-sensor PD-AF (or really fast CD-AF) is another thing I’d like to see.
“A full frame camera similar to the NEX-7 would be awesome – but why does it need E-mount compatibility?”
I agree 100%.
There is only one good E-mount lens, and it also exists with an A-mount.
Meaningful lenses for a full frame “EVF-9” should be fully automatic and totally compatible with the new body. A camera relying on the use of legacy lenses is an academic venture and a joy only for a few enthusiasts.
If Sony wants to focus on the camera body but compete with Canon and Nikon they should buy Zeiss and do it right.
I’m assuming this hybrid camera will have internal image stabilization for Alpha lenses. This camera will stifle development of E-mount lenses. Very few people will opt buy an e-mount when they could use their Alpha mount or various other third party lenses. This is a good thing for both Sony and the consumer. The E-mount will evolve into a port for all other lenses and win many new customers for Sony. The caveat is that this new hybrid camera must offer other attractive features to draw people from Canon and Nikon.
The idea of flexibility and universality is always an exciting thought. It has existed through the times and manifested itself in attempts to make many forms of universal tools etc. Unfortunately very few have survived in the market.
Imagine a camera that can use everybody else’s lens;
How do you handle different systems for aperture control, auto-focus, image stabilization?
A camera body built to manage all these variations is no little, economical camera body.
And if you can’t handle all the variations, do you settle for no image stabilization, no aperture control, or only manual focus.
I don’t think so.
There is, unfortunately, a reason why every large camera manufacturer provides their own line of lenses.
Let’s try another alternative: Sony makes a few different bodies, an EVF-9C for Canon, an EVF-9N for Nikon etc. How long do you think it would be before both Canon and Nikon dropped bombs on Sony.
It is a lovely idea with great bokeh, unfortunately I don’t think the big guys will let it happen.
with the trend of the evf on the slts if i have to swap up to evf i ll skip to the NAX with a tilt screen on tyhe back and go back to more the P&S days and my sony v1 (nearly full controles and i never used the viewfinder )
Not bad. At last I will get used my old 85mm nikkor lens. Just make sure they provide vertical grip for it 😀
I hope the rumor about a full frame “EVF” is true, but I don’t think Sony’s intentions are altruistic.
I think their intentions are as follows:
1. Don’t stop people from buying NEX 3,5,7, therefore dangle the NEX mount.
2. Solve Sony’s problem with no lenses good enough for the NEX-7 by going full frame sensor and A-mount. Sony can now offer existing Minolta, Sony and A-Zeiss full frame lenses.
3. Here is the dark side: A fixed combination A-NEX-mount will geometrically prohibit the use of additional adapters for everybody else’s lenses.
“He who sees the light shall know the darkness”
how bout this you make it an E mount but with and adapter liek the one thatys already made tho it woudl clip in not down but to the side a extra battery/grip extention
there would be space to have aftermarket adapt at least more then a few other lens mounts AF and app controle as it woudl all be out front of what coudl be little more then a cell phone with a FF and E mount (nice and small tho cropped img) then with a 1/4 turn mount adapter with extra battery adn programming for alpha lens (at first but the after market if given the chance will make mounts to match the hub system )
Butch, you are speaking in tongues. I don’t know if I should take you seriously.
The problem with lens adapters is not the mechanics, it’s the electronics and the communications to control aperture, focus and image stabilization.
sorry im not much for the written word. all the 3rd party controls could be put into the adapter (they coud be chipped and coded to “speak” to each other )
aperture might still be able to be physical connection dependig on where it sits on the mount and lens
the added bulk might add again the width of a std thickness cell phone (or making the best for what the mount needs to ad in thickness)
it would still be thinner front to back then my sony V1 with most any other then E mount (Emount woudl be class leader in thin )
This sounds like a reasonable idea. To those who keep bitching ‘why don’t we get a real full-frame NEX”, I have the following question: How many lines of lenses do you think Sony should maintain?
If you want another line of full-frame E-mount lenses (if it’s even possible), be careful what you wish for. It means either
(a) less resources for the current line of E-mount lenses, which are already lagging behind, or
(b) future E-mount lenses compatible with full-frame, which goes directly against the desire for compactness that everybody is also bitching about simultaneously
It doesn’t make any sense. The best solution would be in fact if only two lines survive eventually: the NEX system based on APS-C, and full-frame DLSRs with the A-mount, + possibly cross-over bodies such as the rumored one.
Yes, I believe you are right and depicting the future!
Except, I would like to also see a mirrorless, full frame Sony DSLE with EVF and an A-mount, sharing the Minolta-Sony-Zeiss lenses with Sony DSLRs.
Yes, correct – by DLSRs [sic, DSLRs], I meant something including either the SLT technology or something even smarter Sony might come up with in the future. But the distinguishing factor from NEX would be less emphasis on compactness and more on traditional SLR-style functionality, for those who like it. This is a good fit for the full-frame format, and not the NEX system which has been designed to be compact, without the historical baggage of 35 mm film.
There is an interesting discussion going on at a Canon forum.
Somebody representing Canon questions whether Canon ever needs to produce a mirrorless IQ camera equivalent to a DSLR.
Of course Canon does not have to produce mirrorless cameras.
Canon can let other companies take over the production of all cameras.
The reason why mirrorless EVF technology ultimately will be replacing the SLR in essentially all camera categories is because the SLEVF technology offers superior performance, size and price. A few action sports photographers will hang on to their mirror boxes until sensor based follow focus outperforms DSLR phase detect.
I trust that Canon will come to their senses in a matter of time. Meanwhile Sony has a golden opportunity, as long as they take advantage of it.
Sony to make a full frame camera that can take two types of lenses? And with the Sony nameplate on it as well? Imagine that price!! Oh the humanity…It won’t good thing if only 2 people can afford to buy it.
I am just too happy using my Leica lenses on the NEX. If the full-frame version really comes out, I’ll be in digital camera nirvana. I know a lot of people abandoning their Leica M9 and going for the NEX-7 already. (Which camera do you think has better image quality?) The M9 is more for hanging on the neck for show.