One source just told me that it’s highly likely that the next A-mount cameras will be announced in Q1 already. He mentioned both, FF and APS-C cameras are ready to be announced. They will use the current sensors from the A7-A7r while the APS-C cameras will use an improved 24MP sensor. This part is yet not confirmed but other new sources told me that the A-mount cameras could also have some innovative features (read Z-shift and that kind of stuff). I am working on it to verify this.
I know in these busy A7 and A7r news days I didn’t post many rumors but what you don’t know is that I worked a lot on the background trying to get reliable info about the massive(!) 2014 camera and lens roadmap. To verify all that info I need the feedback from my longtime trusted sources, hope they can share some hints about the 2014 so that I can be sure about the rumors I got 🙂
So please be patient. You really don’t have to wait a long time to enter the next rumor storm 🙂
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Reminder (SR = Sonyrumor):
SR1=probably fake rumor
SR2=rumor from unknown sources
SR3=50% chance it is correct
SR4=rumor from known sources
SR5=almost certainly correct!
165 Responses
If they use the existing sensors, that indeed means SLT, as mirrorless would require much faster read out speeds, for starters……
Love your expert’s opinion. lol…
I am still trying to figure out what you are saying! and i still can not make sense of what you have written!!!
it means fast af speed without a mirror can only be achieved with very very fast sensors. and those full frame sensors are not fast enough for that. they have been used in many cameras in recent years.
You are mixing up mirrorless and shutterless. NEX and A7 do have shutters. And NEX cameras are actually using the same sensors as e.g. DSLRs by Nikon and Pentax.
no. question is: will a-mount go mirrorless yet? answer is no, those sensors are not fast enough to autofocus a-mount glass properly.
Not really.
You’re right in saying that full electronic (or global) shutters require much faster readout speeds too, but the same holds true for fast on sensor PDAF.
It’s one of the main reasons why the Nikon 1 series (sensor over 7 times smaller than FF) is able to focus so fast, just relying on PDAF (only in low light, CDAF has to take over, which is more of a sensitivity issue). Those sensors are among the fastest found in consumer cameras. See 60 FPS at full resolution for example. Another often mentioned reason is DOF, as the DOF is greater with most of the native 1 series lenses too. But if you use the adapter and shoot with some of the FF nikkors, it’s still incredibly fast focusing at long equiv. focal lengths (cropfactor 2.7) with very limited DOF.
Sony has only just managed to create an ultra fast “1 inch” sensor capable of similar read out speeds, see the RX100 II and RX10. Apparently capable of full resolution video, before it’s downsampled in camera to high quality full HD.
It will take some time before such speeds trickle up to APS-C and FF, not in the least due to heat issues. One indicator of read out speeds is FPS in burst, partially limited by buffer and processing power, but much less so in crop modes, where even the 24MP FF sensor still gets spanked by its APS-C siblings.
“Sony has only just managed to create an ultra fast “1 inch” ” – not yet. The easiest test for readout speed is jello effect – current sensor got it still quite heavy.
Oh, and mirrorless doesn’t require any faster readout speeds than DSLRs or compacts do.
You missed the part (the point) where I explained that OSPDAF (which was the subject for mirrorless cameras)does require faster read out speeds. It’s even described in the many patents.
I think he’s a little unclear. If I understand, he’s referring to the fact that in order to focus quickly, a SLT or SLR just reads the phase detect sensors (a very fast operation) and can move exactly where it needs to go. A mirrorless camera needs to read the ENTIRE sensor to do its AF routines. Then you have the inherent speed loss from contrast detect AF (not knowing which way to go to start, having to do a short hunt to fine tune, etc). I would imagine that even if the sensor had PDAF, unless the sensor’s special PDAF pixels are on separate address and read lines, they would be just as slow as well. You would get the advantage of knowing approximately where focus should be, but it would still take 1/60th of a second to read them, (assuming the sensor can read out at 60fps) vs the tremendously faster read of the few pixels on a dedicated PDAF sensor.
I’m sure there’s many tricks that can be performed to speed this up, but the point is that reading a sensor of a few thousand pixels will almost always be faster than having to read the main sensor of many millions of pixels. (Again, unless they make a sensor within a sensor sort of architecture or something strange)
It’s not just the pixel count that matters, sensor size limits read out speed too.
And yes, PDAF pixels on the imaging sensor are normally subject to the read out frequency of the entire sensor (separate wiring would impose a whole new set of issues).
“And yes, PDAF pixels on the imaging sensor are normally subject to the read out frequency of the entire sensor”
> Interesting, didn’t know that.
It makes no difference what kind of a lens you attach to Nikon 1. Whether its a 1″ Lens or a FF lens, the depth of field will be the same, as will the angle of view and the same zoom setting. 50mm is 50mm, no matter how you spin it. The only time it will make a difference is if a speed booster is used to shrink an entire FF image to a 1″ sensor. In which case a 1″ sensor with a much faster resulting F stop, will have the same DOF as a FF sensor on a native F stop.
@Stan:
You’re missing the obvious fact that FF Nikkor lenses tend to be much longer FL’s in general or have larger equivalent apertures.
If you’ve ever shot a 50mm f/1.4, 85mm f/1.4 or 200mm f/2 on a V1 or V2, you’d know what I’m talking about. No native 1 series lens can offer similar thin DOF, unless you’re shooting macro.
But yes, like I said, AF speed stays.
And to add a little more that Zohee35 hit on, with the density of pixels and the sheer size of a FF sensor compared to the size of the microcircuitry, yes, size starts to matter. The speed of light is the speed of light, and while I’ve not tried to do the math for a sensor, the 30mm or whatever an electron has to travel across the sensor, multiplied by the number of rows the sensor has (a few thousand), it starts to become an issue. I think a CMOS sensor even has to address each pixel at once. I believe a CCD shifts out an entire row at a time. Which means you get the speed of light times the number of columns, times the length of a row/2, times the number of rows or some craziness. It gets to be a lot of math, and I’m probably way off, but size becomes a big deal, in addition to the number of pixels read. It’s been a long time since my semiconductor design class, so I’m way over my head here, but I’m sure some one can look it up and figure out what the theoretical fastest read time of a FF sensor would be.
That doesn’t even count the data bus and processor throughput limitations, which are probably even more of a limiting factor.
Anyway, you start to have to partition your sensor up and read multiple rows at once (like I believe some of the Canon FF sensors do) to get the read frames per second on the sensor higher, and thus, faster contrast AF. Or faster shooting speed.
Oh, and FPS burst is mostly straining shutter, bandwidth, CPU, buffer and memory card controller. Sensor readout speed got very little to deal with that.
And again you missed the example of the 24MP sensor (A99 for example), which has less FPS in crop mode (10MP) than the 24MP APS-C A77, while having as much processing power and buffer. Try explaining that with your theory about CPU, buffer and memory controller. You can’t.
No problem, I’ll take a stab at explaining it. Maybe It’s mechanically limited. SSS has to move around a full frame sensor. The shutter mechanism probably weighs twice that of the a77
The SSS has nothing to do with it as high FPS is normally used in combination with fast shutterspeeds. And as for the shutter itself, its lag is measured and specified to be about 5ms, similar to the A77 shutter. Mechanical shutters in general are many times too fast to be a limiting factor for max FPS (compare 5ms with 83 to 100ms per frame).
Zohee35 – no offence, but you have no clue what you’re talking about.
No offense, but if that’s all you can throw to the table after I highlighted that you can’t seem to counter my points, let alone read, the joke is on you.
You seem pretty sure about all this. How long have you been working for Sony?
Keeping up with developments of sensor technologies in practise and patents on paper the past 10 years helps.
@zohee35
What you’re saying still doesn’t make much sense. If the bottleneck in mirrorless autofocus is readout speed, why does it work with E-mount lenses and not A-mount? Isn’t the reason that A-mount are just not designed for hunting back and forth, which is still somewhat necessary even with OSPDAF?
BTW if 1/60 sec was the bottleneck, and you could focus reliably in 1/60 sec, that would be awesome.
I’m not totally up to speed on all the AF differences between A and E mount, but contrast detect and phase detect autofocus actually place different requirements on the lens focus motors. Especially the body-driven sort like the older lenses were.
A phase detect focus system, like the SLT and SLRs, can tell almost exactly (but there’s errors here) where focus should be. They can then tell the motor ‘Spin this much’ and be done. They can then get into fine tuning or tracking (servo mode, I think?) to make little corrections, but those are relatively infrequent.
A contrast detection system, like in mirrorless and point and shoot cameras, cell phones, etc, relies on doing some signal processing of the image it reads off the main sensor. It takes a picture, moves the focus a little, and takes another. It compares them to see which is sharper, and then moves the focus towards the sharper one, taking more pictures along the way to see when it gets starts to get less sharp again. Then it often will back up and fine tune back and forth until it reaches the sharpest point.
The phase detect requires a motor that can move a given distance and stop. It’s not always right on, and may need to be calibrated to some degree. But it’s generally accurate. Not quite as accurate as contrast detect most of the time. Contrast detect requires a very quick motor (and lens elements) that can move very well controlled and very small amounts. So not only do the electronics and motor have to be able to react quickly and precisely, but the elements it’s moving have to be small and light. Larger pieces of glass will slow the motor down (it has to produce more torque), and since it has to make dozens of movements to achieve focus, it’ll be a slower focusing lens.
So, some lenses will focus faster than others, not just because of the body, but because of the lens design itself. They hybrid sensors do both. Using the determinism of the phase detect to get close very quickly, and contrast detect to get the fine focus accuracy.
Anyway, not sure all that helps. There may be other reasons too, but it’s some background at least.
Thanks for this excellent explanation! One of the few really technically informative posts here on SAR.
Thx AMP for the explaination.
My understanding as follows (please correct me if I’m wrong):
Mirrorless CDAF (E-mount)
High precision Stepping motor is needed in every lens and fast readout on main sensor is required for High performance AF. It will focus on the most contrasty one instead of the closest objects.
DSLR type PDAF (A-mount)
SSM is needed in every lens for fast & quiet focusing, large AF sensor is required for low light AF. It will focus on the closet object in the focus on the PDAF grid.
OSPDAF
Relatively Large Aperture (f/6.3 or wider) is required for PDAF to function, or else CDAF will be used.
Z-axis AF (just guesswork!)
For A-mount SSM lens, works in legacy mode no sensor movement is required for AF
For Non-SSM lens, works in hybrid mode – OSPDAF to drive lens to approx range
CDAF (on-chip algorithm?!) to drive sensor movement for precision focusing
If the hybrid (OSPDAF + Z-axis AF) can achieve DSLR-like performance, then SSM is not required for A-mount lenses which can further bring down the costs of the professional lenses (just like IBIS vs Optical stablizer).
Just my 2 cents
Can’t wait 🙂
Hope it will be amazing
Any news of a replacement for the NEX-VG900 or VG30 or is it the end of the line for this series
Thanks
The RX10 is a compelling substitute.
My guess goes to a super speed monster for A77 replacement with hybrid VF & 5 axis IBIS
The FF will have 2 variants, 1 for super low noise monster (24MP) & the other the 36MP, both with 5 axis IBIS. Maybe improve video that can do 10bits & 2k
My wet dream would be film colour gamut with 16bits per colour channel 🙂
For all friends:
A good simulator to play with.
http://www.canonoutsideofauto.ca/play/
Have a good photo sim.
Really new sensor..not till 2015
I doubt we’ll see a hybrid EVF 🙂 But an improved IBIS would be my guess too. And they should be going for 4K video.
+1 Improved ibis would be big selling point (especially given the number of canikon primes that aren’t stabilised)
Will the new FF have 4k video? If the rumored Panny GH4 has 2k & 4k, then there’s a high chance.
Or another possibility could be the FF is a 36MP & a FF VG900 new video cam that can do 2k/4k video, plus 5 axis IBIS for both of them 😀
EXCITING!!!!
Given that Sony is pushing 4K, with their TVs, for example, it only makes sense. Yup, exciting times.
16 bits per colour channel, that’s 281 trillion individual colours. More than the eye can detect, and sever orders of magnitude more than best commercially available image sensor, the PhaseOne IQ180 which can detect 95 million colours.
Looking forward to some 36mp A-Mount for the field!
Well, I’ve capitulated and bought a hacked Panasonic GH2 for video (high bitrate video being the only thing that was ever really lacking on the A77), and am keeping the A77 for stills. Bought a really cheap adapter for Sony Alpha to micro 43rds with manual aperture control built in, so no need to buy extra lenses. GH2 100Mb/s video + Sony A77 f2.8 kit-lens + ND (Minolta 50mm f1.4 for low light) is as close as it gets to perfect for video on a DSLR without resorting to RAW 🙂
That’s me sorted for a couple of years!
Hope they get one fullframe SLT with a flip up shooting mode for ultimate low light shooting… something like, AF lock in the first shot, flip up, take picture, lower the mirror again ready for next AF lock…it would be a SLR like mechanism for low fps (like 2 or 3 fps) then have the 12fps with the SLT mirror locked in position or with the mirror in the up positon…
Of course, there would be people asking for a proper mirror and OVF and will say things like “I don’t see the point of this, it’s just a SLR wannabe, halfbaked.
I know you had some bad experiences in the past, but I would love to see some SR2-3 rumors again…
Thanks Andrea that’s great news! Now I’ve just got to decide whether to replace my a77 with an apsc body or whatever inherits the a7 sensor… Really pleased to see they’ve not done something crazy like going for a 36mp apsc sensor!
Love you man 🙂
Bet they will still have SLT. It’s apparent from the A7 still needing the la-ea4 to phase detect with a mount lenses. If on sensor phase detect was amazing there would of been no needfor the SLT design.
A77 is a good camera, but they can make it great
. Bigger buffer, 12fps is great, but when you can only shoot 1 second bursts… make it 3 seconds and we are ok
. Battery life, its still very poor…
. Better AF and more area coverage for the AF points
. Better EVF and eye-cup, this is an outdoor camera but it still suffer a bit in bright light conditions, specially if the sun is on your side or back, and pleese, no freezing frames when you are in burst mode
. better low light performance………
that’s it
I definitely agree about buffer and evf/eyecup (especially as a glasses wearer). I find battery life to be fine gore than enough for a days shooting when I’m travelling, provided gps is off.
The big things for me would be better af point coverage (something I’ve wanted since my a200, so guess it’s not going to happen) and low iso noise (not nearly as bad as people make it out to be, but it’s still there if you look for it).
As long as they are SLT I’ll pass, right now my options with my A-mount glass is either SLT mirror or an adapter 🙁
If one-third of a stop in light loss is THAT important, then you should be shooting with Nikon.
He is.
Then why bother looking at Sony. Use the correct tool for the job.
Because we have invested in Sony and don’t have the money to switch brand as easy as you apparently seem to have. Losing 1/3 of the light is alot, because it means that the ISO needs to be 1/3 higher for the same f-stop and shutter speed to get the same exposure, and higher ISO = more noise.
For YEARS Sony has been behind Nikon in high ISO terms, for YEARS the reviews have pointed this out, the forums have been full if comparisons for YEARS. If high ISO is your thing then it’s your fault for choosing the wrong manufacturer.
It’s always easy to act smart afterwards saying what one should have done, isn’t it? I’m sure every photo newbie knows everything about cameras… or?
Any news for a99 or older axx’s firmware update.
We Need fix problem then we have faith to buy new camera.
no worries Andrea, you have done a great job here and I do appreciate the A7(r) review and news messages a lot (as I also cannot wait to have mine in hand next week!)
as for the A-mount cameras, haven’t we been already at the stage to expect two FF cameras (early) next year, one high-end model (with all that was discussed over the last weeks/months) – a “A1” for example – and one less equippped one between the A77 and the “A1”, something like a “A88”?
it now sounds like an FF-Amount and one APS-C-Amount, could be an A99R and A79 for example, both using the 36 and 24 MPixel Sensors of the A7R and the A7, respectively
We’ve been in a stage where we expected 3 full frame A-mount models – A850 successor (sub-2000$ full frame), high-res monster and a camera dedicated for video (one from NAB show).
Than there was a rumor about high-speed monster which would make 4th body.
Rumors are rumors 🙂
Why would you want a big res monster? problem with this is that now we have reached the limit of what optics can offer with the 35mm and APS-C sensors (most 14+ megapixel cameras show heavy diffraction softness at anything more than f/8 and the same for FF with more than 20 mp)
I don’t have the background to believe what you just said.
Can somebody in this forum verify if it is true that lens manufacturers have reached a plateau in terms of lens resolution?
I am wondering how medium format cameras get pass this issue (or not).
Sorry to say it but that’s because you haven’t even Googled it. As each pixel/photosite decreases in size to allow a bigger megapixel count diffraction starts to hit sooner, as for medium format it is easy: bigger sensors can have bigger photosites and bigger photosites mean less problems with diffraction.
Also it has to do with the design of the lens, most MF lenses are designed to have a better tolerance when talking about diffraction and resolving power, meanwhile Sony, Canon and Nikon are trying to have their lens R&D to catch up with the monstruosities of sensors their sensor R&D department has produced, sensor development is outpacing lens development (and this isn’t recent at all).
Why do you think micro four thirds cameras don’t have much more room to improve in their megapixel count? that’s because they would have more problems than they already have when shooters do photos past f/8 (their max megapixel count is 16) You can do the test with an 8, 16 and 24 megapixel APS-C and the same lens, shoot at f/4, f/5.6, f/8, f/11 and f/16 and see in which camera and aperture combination on each camera when the image quality starts to decrease and how much it is visible.
Today shooting a 24 megapixel camera (APS-C) at F/16 will result you in a noticeable blurryness all around, yeah you could resize but then what’s the point of having 24 megapixels if you can’t fully use them.
On the other side being that the pixel density is so high fast optics at their widest aperture will behave even better (more resolving power) at the cost of more pronounced fringing and other lateral aberrations, but location shooters often need to shoot to match or kill the sun ambient light -in the beach as an example- and they won’t be shooting wide open forever.
There are plenty of scientific articles in the net about this topic and you can read them if you use Google :).
I really appreciate Andreas Work, what I can beleave its a huge Backround Outsourcing.
We all have different Expections and I hope they bring a Pro Alpha with Photo Quality like A99 has and put 4K Video Options on Top with a good Codec. It costs his Money, but better as have always a Camera who is not bad, but also not superb.
4k A-mount camera is coming, that’s certain by now. They showed one on NAB. Question is – will it be this one?
ps. It’s “Andrea” not Andreas.
sorry yes “Andrea” typing was wrong.
So 4K A Mount is coming.. the Question is when?
Let’s just hope it’s true 4K, and not some low resolution video upsampled to 4K, like the A77 delivers 720p in 1024p format!
This is the kind of news i come to this site. Keep more of them coming with SR5 ratings.
🙂
SLT Flip up mode, please
SLT Flip up mode, please
SLT Flip up mode, please
A big quote for SLT flip up mode
I would also vote for this feature
Based on what sar is saying….no new sensors…simply making. ” improvements ” to yhe old sensord.
This stratagy seems consistent with sony producing a really new tech sensor for 2015 therefore not putting a lot of expense into newer cmmos. In fact i do not think we will see a really new cmos ever again.
Sony is utilizing this year 2014 to introduce camera inovations instead.
New camera shapes and features to try out on consumers and see which ones we like. Sony even put a gapless microlens on the a7r sensor which is otherwise the same 36mp sensor nikon has been using.
All these changes are things that can be used in 2015 when the new stacked sensor comes out.
This i expect will finally be the high resolution sensor that I have been waiting and waiting and waiting for.
I do hope this timetsble somehow gets speeded up.
I am in the meantime interested in some of the possible new features like sensor z shift…possibly for focusing???? Mirrorles cameras would be nice..if sony could replace the slt????? Improved ibis…mayby even included with one of the new mirrorless????
I am still reluctant to buy a new camera even with the features I like because I want to have money left when the new sensors come out.
In the meantime I am very excited about the new Tamron. 150-600.
This seems like a good step up from the Sigma 50-500. In fact size, weight, price and filter size are almost the same…clearly this lens was intended to compete with it.
Based on what SAR said – they DO have new sensors.
One is brand new 24 MPx sensor, and another is new FF sensor from A7 (unless A7 sensor is already “old” for you).
If sony produces higher than 24mp c sensor or higher than 36mp ff sensot yhen it is new and i was wrong…otherwise i am right.
All this hype about new sensor is just hype and njt true…for example both a7 and a7r sensors thay sony claimed to be new were later admited by sony officials to be the same sensors as the a99 and d800.
I have put together the clues…sifted through the hype…and read between the lines of the same information available to you on sar.
Thes are my predictions of what will happen based on lots of small bits of info..not on the headlines.
I am very confident of the general direction i am predicting..however i expecy some details might turn out innacurate.
If i am wrong and sony does make a new higher res sensor sooner than i predict i would like that very much.
Making small changes to old sensors and calling them all new is in the mildest word i can think of…exagerated….
I love 36mp, printed last week a 50′ x 30′. Wow. Personally, I am not sure I need more mpix at the moment.
Thats what everyone said about 3mp then they bought 10mp
Thats what everyone said abou 10mp then they bought 12mp.
Thats what everyone said about 12 mp then they bought 16mp.
Thats what everyone said about 16mp then they bought 24mp
Thats what everone is saying about 24mp but they are buying 36mp
Now you are saying you dont need more than 36mp……
Ive heard it all before!!!!
More mp will come…the sky wont fall..but if i get my way it will rain megapixels!
“All these changes are things that can be used in 2015 when the new stacked sensor comes out.” – and exactly how did you obtain this information?
a7 uses a modified d600/rx1/a99 sensor. there are lots of patents for stacked sensors. nobody knows when it will come, if ever.
Ive heard ” hints” only…….2015
Isn’t that a competitor’s date? The one that needs a new sensor as they have a pricing problem with their yet to be announced new mirrorless due to the A7 as they need to protect the 70d’s price. Sony needs to release these new apsc A mount cameras with the same profit margin as the A7.
Im not sure just what rumer you are referring to but the hint i heard was definitely about sony…it was only a hint but consistent with numerous other small clues i have pieced together.
Again myvpredictions are based on my putting together various clues that in themselves are not significant but combined seem convincing to me…time will show if i am rite.
I think you are right. Cameras are approaching their limits, so manufacturers have started repackaging old technology into new ‘shapes’. Exactly the same thing happened in CPUs, where a single core CPU is now almost unheard of: they reached their theoretical limits on single core so became multicore ‘shaped’.
Current sensor technology is close to its limits, so unless they can commercialise totally new physics, we will be stuck with DSLRs moving into new segments such as connected devices, small form/micro form, video DSLR, etc, with only incremental performance changes (most of which will be brought out through cheaper production rather than new technology).
I don’t fully agree, they said the same thing about 6-8 megapixel sensors. I believe technology will push forward with sensor development.
Only if their Lens R&D department and manufacturing plants can come up with faster ways to do lenses that can resolve, aren’t showing problems with diffraction and are better corrected for lateral aberrations than they are today.
Sensor technology is nowhere near its limits.
Stacked sensors will instantly quadrupal the number of same size pixels that can fit on the chip.
Cmos has been around for a while and will soon be replaced.
This year is a transition….it is a waste of money to further develope cmos since it will be replaced in 2015 but the replacement is not yet ready…
Therefore we are seeing new camera desighns but the same old sensors….minor insignificant changes are being made just so they can claim they are new sensor…but they are not new sensors and we will not see a real new sensor until the stacked ones are ready.
At that point we will indeet see REAL changes and rhey will be VERY noticeable.
Cant Have Z Shift if their is a STL Mirror in the mirror box ………..
That makes sense.
So if we see z shift we will also see mirrorless…if not we will still see slt?
Not necessary.
I suspect also that the reason we are not seeing ibis in e mount is not lack of space…possibly sony is having difficulty with a mirrorless sensor that can both focus and shift for stabilizion.?
Well, A7(r) is in a size of DSLR, so I don’t really think size is such an issue. Sony simply does what Canikon did – based system on in-lens image stabilization.
Looking at how tight the corners of the full frame sensor are in E-mount, I’m thinking lack space to move the sensor sideways may be an issue… doesn’t help much to move the sensor to the side if the light from the lens is clipped by the mount.
Z shift will mve the sensor plane back from the mount.
Since light is diverrging at this point the available image area is actually larger than the mount opening…especially for a mount and other longer flange distance mounts.
Sure they can. Just flip the mirror up like in a DSLR. Or limit sensor shift to focusing alone (say: with M42 glass).
The sensor is rectangular, there might be some z-axis tolerance to allow it as long as the mirror is tall enough.
Never mind, I guess z axis is horizontal shift (in and out)?
A 4k camera with full pixel readout and also 4k in XAVC codec also 10 bit or more, SQD memory card,
Doesn’t sound too interesting, the SLT mirror will mean the 24mp APS-C sensors won’t be as good as the D7100, or K-3. We’ve that horrible hot shoe change to put up with too, and probably high prices on both models.
I’d love to see a proper OVF 6 series DSLR, send Sony the message that we want OVF models too. One SLT is enough for me, it’s fine..but I want an OVF, else I’ll buy s/h cameras on ebay rather than pay Sony prices for APS-C and FF. A77 wasn’t priced well it’s cheap ish now (but not as cheap as Canikon) sensor was damn noisy
We also don’t need another overpriced FF body either, get the message Sony or get used to people moving mounts or buying second hand
examined a broken slt mirror. it’s really just like a plastic film, not sturdy at all. it’s like a plastic-bag-kind of plastic. I wonder if they could make that stand the wear and tear of mirror flip up? I doubt they would bother if mirrorless is on it’s way.
o_O uh? I examined mirror in my SLT and it was quite sturdy – resisted far more than I expected. Certainly nothing like plastic-bag-plastic. 😉
What you did is kinda like examining shuttered mirror and based on this assuming that DSLRs can’t possibly have a mirror flip-up cause it would shatter the mirror. Especially with high FPS speeds.
hey, this is the internet. I’m speculating. get used to it. and whatever conclusions you draw from it, I was pretty surprised the mirror wasn’t sturdy at all. you wouldn’t notice unless it broke.
there is a frame fixing it in place. if it broke, you’d see the mirror itself is actually plastic-bag-ish. if I was a camera designer I wouldn’t like to make that flip around inside the mirrorbox. but I do think flipping slt would be a great idea if they could make it work, since I highly doubt on sensor pdaf can compete with real pdaf any time soon in full frame cameras. but what do I know, I’m not an engineer.
From experience, the mirror’s not designed to take much abuse (I’ve managed to knock mine out when cleaning a few times)
Firmware Updates to existing A-mount cameras?
I’m happy to read about new A-mount cameras, but I wonder why there’s still no Firmware Update for the A77 to improve JPEG quality and support my SAL-50F14Z (50mm F/1.4 Zeiss).
Dear trusted sources, if you have news about an upcoming A77 firmware release, please inform Andrea… 🙂
+1 please news on A77 update, if only to put us out of our misery. “Honami” JPG engine?
Not to sound negative, but the new JPEG engine haven’t even reached the Xperia Z1 yet. It wasn’t in the phone at launch either. Rumours from trusted source on the mobile phone end of SONY are saying that the new engine or camera update for the phone will be coming in an update, just not sure when. Some sources are even saying that there’s conflict with the developers and management from Japan(corporate) concerning the release of the update.
JPEG engine for the A7r looks so glorious.
OMFG, are you sure Sony? Are you sure you’re not going drop that and build another type of camera? Or maybe make another hotshoe? Make up your freaking mind Sony and make ppl that have bought your stuff feel better about what they invested in, instead of making new shit every 6 months and obsoleting everything else. I don’t know if the sony camera i buy today will be replace with another type of camera which will make me look like a fool for buying the first camera. “Here today, gone tomorrow” should be sonys motto…along with. ” YOU LIKE THE SONY DSLR CAMERA? SORRY WE NOW MAKE DSLT. YOU LIKE DSLT? SORRY, WE NOW MAKE RX CAMERA. YOU LIKE RX? SORRY, WE NOW MAKE NEX. YOU LIKE NEX?? SORRY, WE NOW MAKE FULL FRAME MIRRORLESS. YOU LIKE MINOLTA HOTSHOE? SORRY, WE NOW MAKE NEW HOTSHOE.”
so far you’ve lost the hot shoe and the ovf. it’s s pity, I agree. but nothing of all the other stuff you mentioned makes any other stuff obsolete.
Z-shift = MIRRORLESS
🙂
I’m pretty sure Sony’s first quarter isn’t until April… So it may still be quite a wait.
36mp and 1/250th flash sync, no aa filter
24mp and 1/250th flash sync also no aa filter
full remote controls available on iphone/pad, shutter, aperture, pic feedback etc.
PLEASE!
No thanks. I don’t have a need for camera with build-in moire effect.
They’ll add a new sensor shift destabilizer, to simulate shaky hands for a more authentic ‘instagram’ style photo.
A7000 24Mp with built inn contrast detect (trimmed down A7R sensor) APSC SLT With Mirror lock up useing contrast detect for low light 12+ FPS Larger Buffer .Target sports wildlife
A8000 24Mp (A7 Sensor) Full Frame On chip phase detect so we can go Z shift and E mount + Others with adaptors .Z shift will work at the same time as the Apha and E mount Glass SSM making rapid focus times .But mounting Cankinon Glass will just focus but at half speed so Cankinon users will move over then be rewarded when thy buy Sony Glass thereafter . Hybrid : Patent has been leaked for this on SAR . internal focusing will be smooth and silent.Main selling point will be and Hybrid .4K to boost its new TV sales ..Target videographer & Allrounder
A9000 SLT 36Mp With mirror lock up useing just the contrast detect on sensor for low light . SLT down for sports .Patent for this has been leeked on SAR and as we know Phase detect did not make it to the 36mp A7R but it will contrast detect and with the Adaptor it will Phase detect So the Tec is proven : D .this will take on the The cannon with lower MP but better Low light and the D800E for the Resolution hungry and will esensaly be the best of both worlds .PRO
A99 battery grip fits all of the above
have the option to keep the EVF and the Live view screen on at the same time so thy twat of digital Rev cant bitch about the the lag of switching over from one to the other
all have NFC Wifi 2 Card Slots Wether sealing Upgraded EVF and flappy screens .
Id say the two FF will will get to the shop floor first .APSC not makeing making a well timed launch just before the the 7Dii anouncment
Is this your opinion/prediction or do you actually have sone information to base this statement on?
Just wondering about the Z shift in A mount? if the function is intended for focus wouldn’t it make more sense doing it in E mount?
The E mount seems to make a bit more sense as an “universal” camera.
Unless the point is just an E/A mount hybrid camera, and the sensor shift is just to adjust the flange distance.
Not really. With A-mount you got much, MUCH more space in mirror box, so you can use it for some unconventional effects (tilt&shift with every lens using sensor?) and Z-shift focusing can be more precise than in clumped mirrorless.
tilt and shift would be interesting – something I miss (very occasionally!) from the ‘old days’
If z shift is also used for focus…and i hope it is…then the camera will need depth to allow for enough sensor movement to focus.
A cube camera or video camera shape would be ideal for that.
We are not locked into current camera shapes.
Dslr shape was based on housing film solls..flat area for film…and pentaprism/mirror.
We no longer need any of those.
New cameras should first be buolt for function..then we can tweek the functional for to make it attractive and ergonomic.
For my DO EVERYTHING camera i dont need it to fot in my pocket..and i dont need it to look like my old camera did.
My wishlist for A77 successor:
1.Mirrorless, I really need that 1/2 stop of light!
Or, if you can’t remove it, why not make it variable transmission for video work? In-body ND for my fisheye lens, please!
2.4k video shooting, headphone jack, zebra and audio level control plus 4:2:2 raw output just like RX10! If sony don’t push 4k harder, I guess Canon will do it soon anyway, and… isn’t you sony that wanna save your TV business? 4k is the way!
3. And…NO, I said NO more additional video crop factor. It just makes aps-c UWA and fisheye video shooting impossible !!!
4.Alpha Machinegun mode buffer for 3 second at least, perferbly no slide-show preview during machinegun mode anymore !!!
5.Sony, can you make flexible single AF point select faster? It now takes years for me to move my AF point from left to the right. And, better AF accuracy and speed for non-centered AF point please! Wider AF area coverage across the frame will be even better!
6.Higher resolution EVF and higher EVF DR
Sony, if you can ever push this baby onto the market, be it FF or APS-C, I’m in !
Plus a few more ridiculously priced lenses from you, too!
Ooh, an in-body variable ND filter would be a huge differentiator. They’re common in the video world, not so much in still cameras (outside of the X100S, I suppose).
I’m quite happy with my A57, but in-body ND would make me seriously look at upgrading.
Please people, cooperate, I need to buy a camera after 4 years and spending all my 4 year savings is a delicate decition, please send accurate decition wether but A7 or wait for A Mount FF. Please sources, help me not making a bad move!
Wait. You can’t loose on that (either you’ll love new camera, or current cameras will drop in price. In either case: it’s a win-win).
but switch to E mount (from A) will be difficult since corner issues and battery life, Im just changing for lens selection with adapters, if A mount can do it Im fine, I just dont wanna spend my money bad after 5 years of saving, its one in a half decade time that I can do something like this and ive postponed the event for over a year now. Please sources, get info soon! 😀 ! ! ! !
Disappointing to hear that Sony is still goig to milk the a99/rx1/a7 sensor for more camera bodies. Although by next year producing more of the same 24mp full frame sensor (that Nikon also uses) should mean there is an affordable full frame a-mount camera on the horizon for those holding out on for an a88. Though without updating the a99, the a88 should have superior all around specs. Thus, it wouldake sense to drop the 36mp sensor into an a99 II. Supposedly the sensor has been highly optimized for the e-mount though.
Disappointing to hear that Sony is still goig to milk the a99/rx1/a7 sensor for more camera bodies. Although by next year producing more of the same 24mp full frame sensor (that Nikon also uses) should mean there is an affordable full frame a-mount camera on the horizon for those holding out on for an a88. Though without updating the a99, the a88 should have superior all around specs. Thus, it would make sense to drop the 36mp sensor into an a99 II. It wouldn’t be a particularly exciting upgrade (not on par with the a900 vs a99) and supposedly the sensor has been highly optimized for the smaller e-mount too.
Dissapointing but logical.
If sony plans to make a new tech sensor but not until 2015 it does not make sense to put more money into developing cmos.
New cameras however do make sense as that technology will be used to house the new sensors when they do come out.
Also by seeing what new camera bodies pepple actually buy sony will be better able to optimize sales of yhe new sensor when it does come out.
Its a long term plan..but frustrating for those of us who have to wait and wait and wait.
Great, so we had to wait years for old sensor tech to be implemented in a native A-mount body.
If sensor cooling is a major issue, I would like to see a better cooling system designed, that was able to make use of the large form factor of the top-of-the-line FF. Cooling and regulation are important not only in performance, but in reliability.
Yes, I’m sure it’s been worked on for years, by everybody. Maybe there is an FF sweet-spot between 16-24mp.
I think the sweet spot between 16_24 mp is 124mp.
Barry–unless I am mistaken about what you are saying, like you, I would love excellent 36mp performance, and even higher. I would also be willing to put up with slower focusing and maybe longer lag for cooling, in order to receive noise-free ultra-high res at low ISO.
I think we/me are in the vast minority, however.
WE ARE NOT IN THE MINORITY
Sar users have been very vocal for low resolution while the high res crowd has become the silent majority.
Sales of the 36 mp a7r exceed sales of the 24mp a7.
Thats proof of what people really want….sar is not the majority.
The time-frames here are unfortunate in this sense:
I have the money to buy top-of-the-line, but the reason I have the money is that I don’t spend readily.
When I hear about new bodies coming in early 2014 and then a new sensor tech possibly in 2015, I don’t want to spend anything significant now when I could wait a year for something significantly better.
Maybe I will retire my A-850 and buy a cheap A-580, and enjoy some A-mount shooting with live view in 2014, while I wait for a sensor tech announcement. It’s been so long since I’ve used my A-mount glass, I’m getting curious again about what it can do…but LV is a practical necessity for me.
Sales of the Nikon d800 show what a mistake sony made by not releasing the 36mp sensor (that they manufactured) earlier.
There seems to be two camps : Those that want really fast fps high iso cameras with low mega pixels so they can shooting their kids soccer game and save money on hard drive space .
And those that want the best possible image who shoot at relatively low iso in fairly controlled settings (studio tripod , fast lenses).
I don’t see the problem in releasing two models to please both camps, lord knows sony cranks out cameras at a break neck speed.
As Animalsbyberry stated the High mega pixel crowd are not in the minority!!!!, they are just too busy taking photos and making money from their photos to post on these forums.
I cannot afford to buy the csmera body i want this year and then the sensor i want in 2015.
I would really like for sony to intrduce the new sensor tech sooner.
Other manufacturers will also be making organics..but i cannot afford to change my whole system and have no choice but to wait.
Does this make anyone want to cancel their A7/A7R pre-orders?
My thoughts on why Sony is using the older sensors now (2 years after Nikon 36mp) is that the Bionz wasn’t up to snuff. The new X processor has opened the next generation of Sony high megpix cameras to come on line with 4k now possible.
The FF rangefinder in the next-7 body is the next best thing.
Please tell something about that.
Thank you
Hope Sony doesn’t mess around this time and offers a true pro-grade AF in their FF cameras, with wide array of focus points etc.
I’m ok with the mirror. Does anyone know what reason the mirror can’t reduce the amount of light loss to less than 1/3rd? I see no problem with continueing on with SLT if they could show some advances with it.
Since everyone is also commenting on specs. I’ll keep the rest of my comments here to overall design and ergonomics. The grip on the A99 is fantastic, but I find the rest boring. It looks like a shell of melted plastic. Please bring back some sharper angels and get rid of the bubble look. I’d also like to see some more metal bits as well.
The thing that bugs me the most is how much Sony fragments their own camera lines. Getting an a7 and lenses for it is nice, but if you want to migrate to an a mount full frame camera, it’s as much if a change as going to Nikon or Canon. All new power adaptors, batteries, lenses, etc. would be real nice if the lenses t least worked better with each other. Making real nice a mount lenses with OS and whatever else would be needed to make the lens work perfect on a FF e mount would be real helpful at making that less painful.
Admin, I’m looking forward to RX1 successor/refresh rumors in the near future too!
I’d take a cybershot FF with a fixed 50mm 1.4. Anyone else on that bandwagon?
Nobody. Everybody wants a 24mm 🙂
I won’t argue with that. I just have never shot with a prime 24mm. I’m sure if I get into it I’ll be addicted. One addiction at a time please!
Compared to my aging A57… please, please, please have a larger buffer, better low light performance, and a touch screen for focusing (fingers crossed)!
Aging??? If it were not for the better iso I would still use my A700. Whats wrong with the A57 that you need something newer?
Hoping for a FF that is much better on high iso and without the mirror. And i´m dreaming of a 8 or 10 mm f.1,4 for Northern lights pictures
Why should Sony make a new A-mount camera when they can make an E-mount FF camera with a well integrated (but still) adapter? The new “A-mount” need to be bigger for larger/longer lenses maybe IBIS. More heavy duty. A9 and A9r.
Sony can then use ALL FF lenses on ALL FF-bodies. Both A-mount and E-mount AND even Leitz lenses etc can be used!
Two lines of FF lenses for a small player like Sone makes NO sense??
Can someone explain to me?
It needs to be SLT, not mirrorless (for fast AF)
How about a mirrorless FE mount with IBIS, then you use the LA-EA4 for the SLT autofocus?
It doesn’t exist a FE-mount. Full Frame E-mount stills E-mount. FE is the designation for the E-mount lenses with FF coverture
FE mount is a shortcut we use for Full Frame E-mount (contrary to APS-C E-mount) – as in: Full Frame being separate from E-mount part. 😉 Noone says it’s a different bayonet.
what worries me is A mount support for A77 users. I love my 16-50(2.8) That came with my A77 but what other quality APSC lenses have they lunched to go alongside it. NONE my kit includes a second hand (not made any more)Sigma 50-150(2.8) and a Sony FF 70-300G. Sony have lunched a lot more for the A99 and even more for A7/r before they arrive than in the A77 first 2 years. A77 is not a forgotten Camera but Sony appear to be forgetting APSC A mount users.
I keep thinking of selling that 16-50 but then I go out and use it. I only want to sell it because I now own a A900 as well. I own a lot of glass and find this to be exceptional, despite some barrel distoration at the wider end. I don’t care if it’s aps-c. It is a fine piece of glass.
ageing!!? what’s wrong with the world! second: I wouldn’t hope for better low light performance any time soon. just a guess judging from other releases from different brands.
@gare by the way
How the fuck can you all be so excited about that?
Except 4K there is really nothing they could really improve in this time-frame and 4K is the by far less needed feature right now.
Nothing Sony is able to bring right now is exciting or even “usefull”.
Just think about Touchscreen for Focusing, lol!
You buy an A-Mount Camera to have the fastest focusing and then use the touchscreen to focus, there is nothing more stupid i can think about, really.
On my a77 and my a99 the Touchscreen is 99% of the time flapped in, so i can just read the Sony Logo. What the hell you you even want to do with the Touchscreen? There is no control of the camera i can imagine of which would be speeded up or improved with a Touchscreen, its more the opposite…
The Cameras which are to come are just improvements or variations of already existing ones, nothing new. Again, how the fuck can someone be so excited about such stuff?
I dont know what kinda drugs you take but i sometimes have the feeling that no one here even owns actually a camera and is just about pissing his pants with every release and rumor how exciting and “game changing” it is.
If i look back the 5 years into the past there are just minor things changed.
1. prices of Camera
2. Video/Live View (yes, there have been times without)
3. SLT (only for Sony)
thats it, and as sony isnt re-inventing the SLT and the only improvement with Video could be 4K, i cant imagine something really exciting or brand new. There have been only 3 exciting things in the last 5 years so why excited?
Your missing one thing. Massive mother of a drop on A99 prices. That’s when I sweep in a grab one for 1800 or under. A99…meet my A900. Two best peas in a pod.
I saw a A99 in like new condition sell for 1,700 just the other day on ebay. I was a bit surprised.
Please allow for stop down shooting mode for new A-Mount. It would totally remove the focus shift issue for telephoto, especially zoom. Make it manual focus only, I don’t care. Just do it, allow for stop down shooting mode so we can see live DOF and focus shifting.
Otherwise I’ll have to adapt A to E mount with a manual aperture adapter and loose AF. And probably wait for the E mount 9R.
Nikon and Canon have huge focus shift problems on their very best glass. Sony EVF could accommodate the solution and show a huge advantage over competition.
what is focus shift issue?
Focus shift occurs on most telephoto and zoom lenses. We focus with lenses wide open. But their actual plane of focus shifts, usually backwards, with every close of the f-stop. Fortunately, most vintage Minolta’s and the ZA tele primes have very little to none focus shift. Nikon tele’s suffer worse than Canon’s. But notoriously, the newest Nikon G85/1.4 and G200/f2 and Canon 50/1.2L are terrible for focus shifting.
This is a problem for any close up portrait photographer… Like for magazine covers. Focus on the eyeball at f/1.4 viewing is not the same as f/5.6 actual shooting. OVF cannot show it unless with DOF button. Hard to do handheld with a model.
EVF should allow shooting in stop down mode (and does with manual adapter). That way one could see the actual focus plane of the chosen F-stop. Would also reduce stress on the aperture springs. Also provide more consistent results without the aperture having to flap closed/open every shot.
I am waiting for a APS-C RX10 camera 🙂
oh yes, is get that and a trolley for it on pre-order! 🙂
I’m still waiting for the rumored “super fast sports camera” to replace my a77… I remember all the buzz before I bought my a77 and Sony’s big headlines touting it as the fastest camera in the world… 12 fps… I keep waiting for 15-20 fps camera… I don’t care about FF or APS-C… currently my a77 coupled with the 2470Z f2.8 and 70200G f2.8 is working just fine for me… I’d love an upgrade fix for the JPEG engine but I haven’t seen anything yet to change my camera although the RX10 looks pretty tasty!!!… would make a good travel alternative to my big a77/grip/lens package!!!
More rumors on the supposed a77 replacement please… fast fps, updated 24MP sensor, updated JPEG… then I’ll trade in my 70200G for the new 70200G II… I’ll be good to go for another 2 years…
full frame 4k, and for codec use ProRes 220 Mbit/s
and we all know that can be done at-least the ProRes part even RAW can be done in video by the black magic pocket cam
So only please !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
4k doesn’t matter to me, but PLEEAASE SONY!!!! don’t stick to 24mbit ACHD and come up with higher bit rates.