An anonymous sources who claims to be in contact directly with Sony Japan told me the following tidbits about Sony A and E-mount development. As usual with new sources take the info with a grain of salt and as a chance to discuss the content based on that hypothetic scenario:
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1) The a-mount will keep going with the existing lenses. Sony will support those lenses.
2) The engineers have 6 prototypes for new (A-mount) cameras. Two are very different than previous cameras, but are in early stages and would take much longer to develop. The other four are refreshes of current cameras. NOTE: he said definitely not all of these will be made.
3) The engineers feel management was disappointed in the A77ii. They feel it was a mistake to keep the same shape because people didn’t know it was very different. Almost all components in A77ii were new. For that reason, they are looking at new designs for anything else they come out with, but new designs take longer to make and more money and durability testing.
4) There are more e-mount lenses coming, and some a-mount lenses will be upgraded.
5) The engineers have not heard of a new 24-105 for a-mount. Might be for e-mount. There have not been prototypes of a-mount lenses since CZ50, but lenses are designed elsewhere and there might be more — not sure.
6) Management feels a-mount is well supported the way it is, and that FE lenses and accessories are the priority. Especially lenses that are not on the a-mount already.
7) IBIS on E-mount is possible but not as good as on A-mount.
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Thanks to the anonymous sources! Hope he will become one fo my trusted sources soon 🙂
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hopefully the two bodies that are taking longer to develop are FF mirrorless a-mount
That is the $64k question for the whole camera industry…
It has been suggested that on sensor focus just isn’t going to work well with lenses designed for SLRs, because they communicate with the camera at a much lower frequency than lenses designed for mirrorless. This would certainly explain a few things:
– Why AF on the LA-EA3 is lousy, and the LA-EA4 has a mirror in it
– Why the original four thirds lenses focus badly on MFT
– Why the Canon EOS-M is so awful at focussing Canon SLR lenses
– Why sony are still making SLTs
It doesn’t seem like on sensor PDAF or Panasonic’s DFD are answers for this. They both rely on CDAF for at least half the process, and OSPDAF turns off in lower light.
If this really is the problem I think it might be, then a Canon/Nikon entry to mirrorless wouldn’t start out with hundreds of working lenses as people assume. They’d have less than Sony.
The only exception I can imagine is Canon’s split pixel system, which uses the whole sensor to get enough focus area to work well even in difficult light.
The open loop vs. closed loop and communication speed in focus is one issue with SLR lenses, the other is focus motors. SSM/HSM etc. equipped SLR lenses are “dragsters”; they are very very fast to go to certain measured focus point, yet very poor on making tiny back and fort corrections CDAF contrast iteration reguires. Canon’s dual pixel sensor focus works at reasonable speed with STM (Stepped Motor, more optimized for small corrections) lenses, all like 4 of them, and is quite bad with superfast focusing (in PDAF body) L glass. New Sony FE 70-200/4 OSS and updated A Mount 70-200/2.8 SSM2 from last year have completely different focus motors despite same focal length; FE has dual linear motors and A Mount has SSM2. The other can iterate well and the other can not. My take it is that as long as CDAF is needed for final focus fine tuning with On sensor focusing the traditional SLR lenses are gonna focus quite slow. Don’t hold your breath and expect to use SLR lenses efficiently with sensor focusing any year soon…
Thanks, nice to have some more detail.
So, you can’t just put a mirrorless body on a 24-105 USM and expect it to work like a SLR. Interesting…
I am almost sure if manufacturers allowed everyone to implement their own AF algorithms, we’d have had open-source fast-focusing algorithms by now.
But CDAF is sofware algorithms which get better and faster much quicker than hardware does. It’s not beyond the realms of possibility for CDAF not to require that final “hunt” and to work with any lens – or at least the minolta/sony lenses with distance encoder feedback. We’re not there yet but we could be in the future – but is it in the interest of manufacturers?
CDAF be definition is image analysis on different focal lengths; best contrast is found by comparing several different “images” (how would you know which is best if there were no comparison “images”) so miniature hunting is not going away and lens motor not optimized for this is gonna suffer. CDAF processing can be sped up step by step by faster software/processing hardware, but megapixel race also works against this more and more accuracy is needed on the same time.
images are only “compared” to find the one with maximum contrast. If you can predict that the “next” image is going to have less contrast than the current one then you don’t have to focus past the focus distance then back again.
And how exactly can you predict the if you are in max contrast if you do not test if there is more available by moving focus a bit? CDAF is 100% based on iterating the contrast (in Sonys case only vertical contrast), you just cannot eliminate the iteration part.You can make processing faster, and make better quesses on “where to test next” to lessen the number of needed iterations, but iterating cannot be eliminated. Hybrid On Sensor focus on my A6000 is already superb for static targets with the FE 70-200, but FE 70-200 is the one lens most optimized for this kind of focus; with dual AF motors. There is unfortunately nothing that suggest there is sensor-PDAF breakthrough around the corner that would make SLR lenses superfast with sensor focusing.
With an analysis of the scene you can predict the maximum contrast so you don’t have to iterate to find it. The software can also learn the characteristic of the lens. The only problem is, why do all that rather than sell new lenses?
Scene based recognition etc. need an NSA supercomputer farm inside camera (considering real time requirements this thing has) when compared to current rather simple vertical contrast detect system; that basically just compares pixel RGB values, moves the lens a bit and looks what happens to values. These decisions need to be made in milliseconds for changing scenes without eating the battery a a few minutes and/or making camera melt. If there was a way to magically make this happen it would be implemented.
So did face recognition just a few years ago
Face recognition is pretty trivial actually, one is just looking for quite fixed eye/nose/mouth pattern (did some studies on machine vision back in the day in the university) which have fixed place and size relation and then running CDAF (or pattern match is Face detect has registered faces) on the area found. Consider how easily face recognition gets confused even today; turn the head enough to shade one eye and the face recognition gets into trouble. We can speed things up a lot like A6000 shows with good lens but eliminating the contrast iteration without losing accuracy is not something I see happening anytime soon. Maybe the sensor PDAF will one day catch the accuracy/speed of a separate focus system and can “command” traditional DSLR lenses like separate focus system can today. There are people in certain forums sort of blaming Sony for “holding back” the fast sensor focus for SLR lenses, but IMO they do not know the focus system differences/capabilities that well.
Nice to see a post without a bad attitude, just good intelligent reasoning. Just wanted to say that. 🙂
They could have used Z-plane movement of sensor for small focus hunting.
Yes, that would do it.
Hi Admin,
Should I buy sony a99 or should i wait until early 2015 if Sony is planning to release a new FF with 50mp maybe??Thanks
Buy a second hand a99 and save money for buying a new one in march.
Second hand are not cheap either 🙁 It’s almost the same price as new here (body only)
and you dont what the second camera has been through or the shutter counts.
Do you know any websites that sell second hand cameras besides ebay?Thanks
Do you have a good camera? Do you realy need a FF camera? Do you realy need 50MP? Do you realy want the larger files comming from the 50 MP? Do you have the lenses to put the 50MP realy to use? Are you willing to pay the price for the better optics?
Answer these questions yourself and you know what the answer to your question is.
The pros for buying now are: You know what you get, the price is right now, you can start learning to use your camera now. You can start to makenice pictures now.
The pros for waiting are: You may get a better camera, You will get the latest of the latest (but pay an extra high price for it) when you wait the price for the A99 will go down when the new camera comes, and so you will pay less when you go for the “old” camera.
obviously you dont really need a camera like the a99 at the moment because you are willing to wait several months for the ‘next big thing’. so wait for it! if youre lucky there will be not only one new camera to choose. personally i wouldnt buy a 50mp fullframe because this might be the typical (slow) studio tripod camera – depends what photos you want to shoot.
Hi guys,thanks for all the comments. At the moment i have a77 and a77MKII with SAL1650.I have always wanted to buy a FF camera and I had my eyes on a99 for 2 years,since I am a freelance photographer and I do weddings and christenings for work.Now,I am happy with my current equipment,but something inside of me keeps telling me that I have to get a FF to have better performance for various reasons.My main concern is that my current cameras doesnt have 2 slots of memory cards so that I can have a backup my photos while working.Plus I need to have a FF camera avoid the ISO noise,since the FF camera have better quality with low ISO noise conditions. In addition I am an astrophotographer so that sums up…
I have seen that the price of a99 (body only) has been reduced to 1800 euros(european shops).However i will need as well a FF lens for that and I think I have to get the Vario-Sonnar T* 24-70mm F2.8 ZA SSM,since I cant use my current lenses on APS-C sensors or at least SAL2875 but this lens I dont like it cause it doesnt have SSM and its SAM and I do video recordings too…
“7) IBIS on E-mount is possible but not as good as on A-mount.”
It would be very interesting to hear the reasons for that. Maybe something to do with the short flange?
I personally love that they kept the body of the A77ii the same as the original. The ergonomics of the design seem to be spot on for most people. If people aren’t getting that it’s got a bunch of re-worked features it’s because their marketing has been poor to non-existent.
Especially compared to how well marketed the a6000 was.
When do we get SR5 about point 2?
How about combine OSS and SSS and get a surpreme stabi?
Soon. I am VERY close to some SR5 rumor.
The only word i dislike is soon.
How about using terms ‘this week’, ‘upcomming 2 weeks’ or ‘this month’? 😛
Because it depends from when the source will confirm the info I have. It’s not me delaying anything 🙂
It is not possible to realy combine both systems. You can have a IBIS body with a ILIS lens, but you have to switch of the IS system in one of them.
Of course it’s possible. It’s most likely solved by a firmware update to both the body and the lens.
They would cancel each other out
And create worse blur (or damage the ibis) if they were used simultaneously.
A77II without XAVC – FAIL
A mount – FAIL
FF mirrorless A mount or hybrid mount which also accepts FE lenses and has Olypus IBIS & global shutter, which also does 4K, would be a killer camera and should please just about every A & E mount user. Yes one can dream 🙂 Are you listening Sony???
A camera like that would put Sony as the King of all mirrorless cameras for many years to come…. and of course Sony won’t do that.
Even a 2 stop IBIS would really, really help…no mention of the sensor size, is this about E or FE?
totally agree, 2 stops would be just fine, more would be great, but give us some loving please
Yep. Gimme 2 stops to use with my Contax/Zeiss 50/1.4, with a Speedbooster if necessary. I’d buy a new body for that.
4 refreshes? Presumably a58ii and a99ii prototypes… Personally I think the reason the a77ii didn’t sell is down to marketing rather than appearance. There’s no point in changing a good design purely for the sake of it, but when the changes are under the hood you really need to communicate them.
I think you are right. In Magazines at last here in Germany, the A77 II was tested and they all liked the A77 II. It is a matter of marketing or that their service isn’t “nice”.
In case of service they do what they have to do (I had two times some issues and they repaired it within warranty) but if you do ask them for more (maybe infos, or if there is any chance to buy sony-alpha-t-shirts or whatever), you mostly do even not get a answer.
I forget what month it was, but the A77ii was on the cover of Pop-Photo not too long ago. When it came out there seemed to be interest and most reviews seemed to be favorable, but Sony’s marketing team did nothing with it. I’m sure Sony could have easily run some sports themed ad’s for the A77ii and A6000 during the world cup, but all they did is push 4K…
“The engineers feel management was disappointed in the A77ii. ”
What a bunch of idiots is sitting in Tokyo? I mean, the A77ii is a nice refresh of the original A77 which I own, but is there something mega exciting about the camera? Besides the upgraded AF there realy is nothing to call home about. I keep asking why no S and R option for A mount??!! That would be something exciting where even the existing users would consider buying a camera just one generation newer. Sony does not cater.
I keep asking, why is every single Sony lens more expensive than Canon or NIkon counterpart, even when there is no in lens IS? This should be the prime advantage of the A mount that the lenses are cheaper because Sony has IBIS. They turned an advantage into a disadvantage.
I keep asking why no new lenses are coming for the A-mount. Do you think that the guys at Canon stick to that brand because Canon has some awesome sensor tech? No, they all hate that Canon is lacking in the sensor department, but they will stick to Canon because of the huge lens options they have. The major reason why E-mount is succesfull is because you can adapt lenses from other mounts and sombine those lenses with superb sensor performance!
I keep asking for more lens options, but Sony either releases some super expensive CZ lenses or some entry level rubish. There is no f4 lens options for the A mount. See Canon, they do offer you a semi-pro set of lenses which have the L tag and are at f4.
So you still really think that the shape of the A77ii was the reason that it was not sellin well? Forget it! The reason is that it just did not provide such an attractive feature set as the A7 cameras did. No XAVC, no major leap in ISO performance, no R or S option…. If you would at least put an option to shoot video at 120fps, you would make the camera so unique, that people would buy it. You only give minimal advances to new A-mount cameras but give major leaps to FE.
Not sure what the executives in Tokyo are smoking, but it must be some heavy sh*t
The a77ii is so much more than an af upgrade – iq at all ISOs is much better and the flash issues are finally fixed
yeah, but for me its just the A77 mk1 done right. Fixing the flash issues – so the fix for the issues is an upgraded camera and not a firmware? Wohooo, great way to alienate the customers
Young people don’t like ugly dslr shape camera. A6000 and A7 look much more stylish. The last A-mount camera, A77ii, was a mistake. Sony won’t tell you that they killed the A-mount as they are still selling the remaining lenses. E-mount has a much larger user base now.
” e-mount has a much larger user base”
Source?
This is SAR, nobody needs to backup what they say with sources.
On the contrary, people want a big camera, so they automatically go for a Canikon DSLR that looks more professional and ‘serious’, even if they never considered professional photography.
Maybe what you say is true for Asia… most Asian tourists seem to be shooting with mirrorless.
I don’t think E-Mount userbase can be larger either, the A-Mount has been around for 30 years. Sony has done a lot to alienate A-Mount users lately, but still not enough to cancel it all out.
I think the management do not care about your problems or ideas, they just see it didn’t sell as good as they wanted.
Nevertheless in some points the listen to the community, which is at least a good start. Way off apart from optimal, but ok.
If you do write a personal message to Sony.de about some things, you often don’t get a answer or a answer, that does not fit to your question. I don’t think that those guys in Tokyo even know, that costumers try to talk about problems. They sit in their room and watch selling stats. Thats all.
But that is the issue. You have to be a customer centric company to succeed. You have to give to your customers what they want, or someone else will do. How can you expect something to sell well if it does not respond to what the customers are asking for?
I may be stupid – but what are “S and R options” ??
These are two additonal versions which are avaiable for the A7 only. The A7R has a 36mpx sensor which has no low pass filter, so it provides you with signifficant improovement in terms of detail and shaprness. You are tho running into risk of getting moire in your images. The S option is the low light version – the A7S. This one is currently the lord of darkness among all cameras and can go as high as ISO 400 000, tho obviously that is not really usable. It has a 12MPX sensor only in order to be that sensitive. While the technology as such is developed, its only avaiable in E-mount. I think its about time Sony gives these two options to A-mount as well. The R option should be adaptable to both APS-C and full frame, the S option most likely only to full frame.
Ah ok – I wasn’t thinking A7 – I’d definitely consider buying an A99S or even an A77S.
Actually, if there were affordable native lenses available (50, 85, 105 and 28-75 zoom) I’d buy an A7s tomorrow.
28-75 is affordable, any other lens with adapter si available, stop whining bit€h! Open your eyes . Better pay for high quality lens and have it fpr yearsand have a value in time then buy a cheap plastic rubbish…
Do you talk to people like that in real life?
Or are you just trying to prove some kind of correllation between basic manners and intelligence?
Thanks! I too have been looking for this sort of information and you addressed it very well.
I was always saying that the management was creating the inconsistency and confusion within Sony. They do not listen to customers and they want some immediate groundbreaking world-shattering success. A77 II is a step towards the right direction, and if the customers are not complaining about size and form there is no need to change the shell. I do think that the miniaturization of the A7 series causes more problem than it solves and you do need a tough (bigger) shell for weather resistance. Is it my opinion only that the RX100, RX1 and the A7 series are unnecessarily small and they are more like jewels (accessories) than cameras?
Rx1 and A7 are definetly cameras.
“Is it my opinion only that the RX100, RX1 and the A7 series are unnecessarily small and they are more like jewels (accessories) than cameras?”
Well, you know what they say about opinions…
Weather resistance has nothing to do with the size or toughness of the shell. It has everything to do with the seals.
Rx100 is great because Sony was able to do so much in a highly compact package.
Small is good but for me it can be a PITA, even with my medium size paws. I loved my Leica M8 but I had to add the ugly cigar grip and add the aftermarket ‘ThumbsUp’ device in order to hold it. By that time, it was no better than a slightly larger body format.
A77ii isn’t a refresh. Is new one in everything . I agree about sony lenses prices and no innovation respect the other (i think for ex. a new 400 f 5,6 or f 4,5 to replace the minolta etc.)
Don’t forget the actual economic situation in more countries
Let us have some more Nat Geo photogs abandoning their sponsored DSLRs for NEX’ please. 🙂
(Unfortunately, some are promoting m43rds as well.)
> IBIS on E-mount is possible but not as good as on A-mount.
what a cop out. Olympus have already mastered IBIS in mirrorless. Step it up Sony.
There will be no IBIS. Sony wants you to buy the new E-mount lenses with OSS. IBIS won’t work for video.
IBIS works for still. Not all Sony E-mount lenses have OSS. Idiot.
He isn’t an idiot, the e-mount is a joint development with the video division. Early on they decided to go with OSS because it works for both needs, is superior and allowed for smaller cameras. The diameter choice of the e-mount hardware combined with a full frame sensor confirms this choice – it barely even accommodates the corners of a full frame sensor let alone allow for moving it around.
Name calling isn’t going to get you IBIS – go a-mount or be frustated.
is there any evidence that Sony engineered E-mount just enough to fit a FF sensor, or is it just a coincidence that a FF sensor fits?
I too wish to know this.
The VG9000 came out 1 to 2 years into e-mount with a full frame sensor in it. I would imagine that it was engineered to (barely) accommodate full frame.
Why is he an idiot for having an opinion that is very sane?
Any news of a RX2 ??
The problem with Sony is that you don’t find any consistency in their marketing behavior. For instance, they sell “cheap” bodies, so you could suppose they don’t target professionals, but rather prosumers who want good quality for their bucks. The problem is the lenses that come with it are quite pricey. Want a good 50mm on your A7 ? Buy a Zeiss 55mm at $800. Want a good 35mm ? Buy the Zeiss 35mm at 600$. Want a good quality zoom lens ? $1000 at least for the Zeiss 24-70f4… Ok, if you compare to Sony’s competitors, it’s not that expensive, but still, you could expect that with cheaper bodies come cheaper lenses. For instance, if you buy the D610, with the 35f1.8, 50f1.8 and 85f1.8, you pay less than for an A7 with the Zeiss 35mm and 55mm, for quite a comparable quality, so the Sony doesn’t seem that cheap suddenly. Inconsistencies…
The worst case is still, however, the A6000. Nice camera which, at its price, really is a bargain, and I must say kudos to Sony (even though the lack of electronic level is one of the most stupid decision I have ever seen). But if you want a “good” zoom ? $1000 for the Zeiss, $500 for the Sony 18-105. Good primes ? Ok, the 50mm is actually really nice for its price, but then the SEL35f18 is more than $400, while it’s not exceptional (though quite good). A wide-angle prime ? Well, you’ve got the $350 SEL20f2.8 which is not that sharp, to say the least, but still more than the 16mm, or the over-expensive Zeiss 24mm, which is good, but at more than $800, is far from being a “bargain” or have a “decent” price. Then, you’ve got the 10-18, around $750, and not that sharp, or the Zeiss 12mm, for UWA, which is quite expensive. So, to sum up, if you buy an A6000, you’ve got a pretty nice camera with good, but demanding sensor, for a low price. However, when it comes to lenses, you’ve got to pay a lot more to get good IQ and use your camera at its full potential, or you will end up with “average” lenses that make you camera no better than a µ4/3. Inconsistency… Who are they targeting ? People who are looking for a bargain ? Well, they should do it with their APS-C line, because except for a few people who benefit from the crop factor, you don’t go to APS-C because you want the best of the best, but because you’ve got good IQ for decent prices. But doing it is not about selling cheap bodies alone, it’s also about selling good lenses that are significantly cheaper than their FF counterparts, but still good.
I really love Sony, and beyond my complaints, I think there are many things they should be proud of. However, their marketing policy is sometimes killing me. Sony is just good, while with better targeting, it could be so much better.
True. But good lenses means high production value. And this doesn’t go with cheap prices. A body can be done cheap – as we see. What should they do now? Make the bodies more expensive because … lenses are? Have a look at CaNikon! If you want quality lenses there, you pay the same price – and bodies are cheap there too. Problem is with Sony, they have either cheap lenses or expensive lenses, less between (especially A mount). Problem with FE-mount lenses: They’re expensive but not outstanding good (compared to their A-mount counterparts).
Well, not really. At least for me, my eyes got more critical to IQ over the years, so I need more expensive lenses. If you want excellent IQ, you can’t be price-sensitive – on all mounts. Regular users buy a A6000 with the kit 16-50mm kit lens and extend it with the 55-210. Enthusiasts get the A6000 with a walk-around 1670Z and the 35F18 … And that’s pretty much it. Special-interest lenses have always been expensive. And you can always use any of your beloved lenses with a adapter.
But true: Why is there no 24-70/F28Z for E-mount? Because size matters? Maybe. Why is the SEL-35F18 much more expensive than the 35F18 on A-mount? Again, size? Probably. And it’s new. And there’s less competition. And you have OSS. And maybe smaller market share.
Finally it’s like with a good hifi-system: the amp is not _that_ important. Speakers are! Rule of thumb is to pay at least the same for your speakers as you paid for your amp. Same with cameras.
Another thing that bugs me is how bulky a lot of their lenses are. You can tell that a lot of them are really adapted (D)SLR lens designs, not developed specifically for mirrorless. Small bodies, big lenses.
“1) The a-mount will keep going with the existing lenses. Sony will support those lenses.”
So what is contradictory here? They will make “upgrade” slighty some lenses, which means nothing new for a-mount, just higher price…
Adding new coatings, new SSM, the number II and +$1000 to price tag doesn’t make for a new lens.
Hence the qualification in my comment, “albeit only upgrades”.
There’s no contradiction in these points. Just you not understanding what Sony does.
Seeing as you DO understand what Sony does, please elaborate on what I have misunderstood.
I had the same impression when I read point 1 and felt point 4 kind of disagreed with the first sentence of point 1 but then I realized I was parsing the written language of someone whose primary language is not english so those subtle things might not be that meaningful.
Another thing. Sony please give to third part lens producers the possibility to produce lens A mount ,also telephoto, less expensive than sony 500 f4
You have Tamron on the market (more or less a Sony subsidary) ;-))
Whats about a videocodec update with xavc-s for the a6000? Does it come soon or should I wait for a6100?
Wait for the A6999 mark XVIII which will certainly contain all features you’ll ever need minus 1.
Or just buy a camera with XAVC-S already on it if you need it now. Or, chances are that you don’t really need XAVC-S in which case you can buy the superb A6000.
Haha, whats a clown…
and seriously a 5100 got the xavc-s why not a6000, A7, A7R
A versatile FE 24-105mm lens would be great, as well as an IBIS! Looking forward to those confirmations. 🙂
http://ilovehatephoto.com/
Sony had new A-mount lenses designed. The FE 35/1.4 and FE 90mm Macro. Then they saw an urgent need for more E-mount lenses and therefore re-engineered these. The flange distance was changed by adding a tube.
Now what will happen to A-Mount? Will Sony release these lenses or just let the system stagnate until it no longer warrants development?
Sony is trying to cover as much focal lengths as possible and as fast as possible.
That new FE 28mm with 2 adapters for wide and fisheye is a proof that Sony is trying to cover focal lengths immediatly before other companies get in the FF mirrorless category.
They doesn’t want to spend money for designing and testing new lenses so they made 2 adapters instead just to say “we covered all focal lengths needed for most photographers”.
That’s why people feel that Sony is giving up A-mount , for Sony .. A-mount can wait but not FE.
About the A77II , I had the A77 and now I switched to the mark2 , same external design .. Totally different output , in my experience .. a77II is waaay much better than the old A77 , photos has much better sharpness , much better low light performance and AF.
I know how Sony engineers feel when they say that they are disappointed with the design of the A77II , because if they changed the design of the body people will feel the difference ,like Sony did with NEX 6 and A6000.
Customers felt the difference between them , although it’s almost the same change in specs with the A77 and A77II.
“I know how Sony engineers feel when they say that they are disappointed with the design”
– they were NOT. Management was. Engineers were happy with A77II design.
Sorry , I wasn’t accurate there.
did they tell you how happy they were ?
I am in a position now where I so much want to upgrade my ‘do it all travel zoom’ for my A65 to something a bit better like the 70-300G and maybe the Sigma 150-500. Unfortunately, Sony is giving me no reason whatsoever to further invest in my camera (which I really, really like) because If I do buy these lenses I am fully committing to Sony A mount and I would also be wanting, eventually, to maybe upgrade my camera as well.
Sony is shooting itself in the foot…er..make that both feet. They worry that A mount lenses are not selling well yet do absolutely nothing to give confidence in the A mount range therefore making people very uncertain about buying anything extra for their cameras. They worry about not many people buying their A mount cameras yet, once again, they do nothing whatsoever to give confidence. It’s a double whammy. Not only do Sony lose out because of their ineptitude but we lose out because we are so unsure of the future of A mount that we will not invest in what we want. Everyone loses..what a shame.
At this point it makes no sense to make any more commitment to Sony.
They have put all thier eggs in the E mount basket…and this is a deeply flawed systen..which will become glaringly apparent when Canon and Nikon release thier fully planned mirrorless systems.
Sony has continually made one poor management/marketing decision after another and has only survived thier own actions with an investment in superior technology.
I do not think Sony is going to survive this mistake….Canikon will take away thier newfound mirrorless market share and Sony has made it impossible for A mount users to continue with Sony.
Sony is dead.
Mental.
Admin please please block / ban this fu€king moron ASAP. He is nothing more than a Canon shill / troll.
I have used exclusively minolta / sony for over 45 years and now Sonys incompetentt management tactics make it impossible for me to continue to buy Sony …..even though I very muvh desire to continue with sony…
I share the position of many loyal Sony users who are being forced to switch against our will
If that by your definition makes me a Canon troll then I have more than earned it.
Incedently…I currently own no Cannon equipment and my easiest course of action would be to continue with Sony…but Sony has turned A mount into a neglected dying system.
E mount is a never has been never will be system…they just dont know it yet.
So to set the record straight I am as loyal a Sony customer as exists being forced to abandon Sony by thier own actions….Canon is not killing Sony…Sony is killing Sony all by themselves!
Get a life moron.
“I do not think Sony is going to survive this mistake”
Are you kidding me??? LOLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!
You still aren’t using Zeiss A-Mount lenses and you still don’t understand why that’s the only good thing about Sony cameras.
When Sony updates existing A mount lenses…as this post claims…they should be updated to be compatable for both A and E mount.
Include OSS and include whatever electronic protocals that are required to communicate with both A and E mount cameras.
This way a simple extension tube like adapter is all that is needed to work like a native E mount lens.
This current strategy soinds to me like A mount users should definitely be looking for Canon or Nikon alternatives.
Nikon will probably use Sony sensors and would probably be the better choice for those who used to be happy with Sony.
Canon will have thier own sensors…we will have to wait and see what they come up with.
Switching to E mount is a completely foolish move…Sony just screwed you…do you want to just bend over and let them screw you again?
Trouble is, Barry, that loads of us love the EVF and Canikon don’t do a DSLR style camera with EVF. Yes, I know that there was a rumor that Canons next Rebel will have an EVF and I believe that many of us are now waiting to see if it happens. Sony have really made a mess of their range, their marketing and their strategy (IMHO) with regard to the A mount range of equipment. E mount just doesn’t cut it for me for many reasons, wildlife photography being one of the major ones.
All we can hope is that Canon get it right with the EVF and that they don’t bring out a new lens mount to go with it.
Sorry Sony, but it really is your fault..nobody else’s.
I share your frustration..
Sony has made it totally difficult to continue to buy Sony…I will probably follow Sonys lead…continue to support….use….the sony equipment I have but not invest in any new Sony equipment.
I would like to switch now…but do not want a flapping mirror and that is what has been holding me back.
I am anxiosly waiting to see what the new round of Canikon will bring as I plan to get a new 150-600 and the latest camera to go with it.
Since the best of thes is the new Sigma 150-600 sport and Sigma has assured me that this lens will never be made for Sony I have no choice but to buy a new Canon or Nikon camera….at this point I need to wait to see which one comes outvwith the better camera…I await the new Canon sensor to see how it will compare to the new Sony sensor.
If I like the Sony sensor better I will get a Nikon camera…If I like the Canon sensor equal or better I will get the new Canon since it is much easier to get good lenses for Canon.
Some misquided Sony users are considering switching from A moint to E mount just because Sony decided to force yhem to do so…they did that to me before..I have a huge collection of rockor lenses and cameras that became unusable when Sony introduced A mount.
Now Sony refuses to make A mount fully compatable with E mount and wants us to get all new native E mount lenses.
Sony says..bend over so we can screw you again…
Clearly this prototype news proves that thier only intention is to do little or nothing with A mount.
Make no mistake..when Canon and Nikon enter the mirrorless marked thier products will be compatable with thier vastly superior lens selection and anyone that chooses Sony E mount is a fool….
Canokon will clobber Sony E mpunt…and Sony in a pointless effort to monopolize the mirrorless market will lose both thier current and new customers.
A mount lenses will fit E mount cameras with adapters and be partly usable.
E mount is a shorter mount…E mount lenses will be completely totally useless WHEN Sony discontinues E mount.
You are a fooking nutjob. Stop repeating the same old crap day in, day out.
Have you actually been treated for mental conditions?
Every one of your posts keeps repeating over and over that I am repeating myself…each of my posts however does add something new.
I know you dont like the fact that Sony is dead but they have indeed commited suicide and I can do nothing to change that.
I can however suggest to people that since Sony is absolutely determined to self destruct that they should bail out as soon as possible.
“each of my posts however does add something new”.
You don’t add anything here because you are incapable of rational and coherent thought.
Have you been treated for mental conditions?
Hope you get hit by a fu€king bus troll. Now flap off.
“I have a huge collection of rockor lenses and cameras that became unusable when Sony introduced A mount.
Now Sony refuses to make A mount fully compatable with E mount and wants us to get all new native E mount lenses.”
Now did I just read that correctly? Firstly, Sony didn’t introduce A-mount. Secondly, the E-mount (which IS in fact introduced by Sony) enables you to use all your rock&rollor lenses again in unsurpassed image quality and with hocus phocus peaking! Thirdly, A-mount is fully compatible with E-mount since aperture and focus can be controlled on camera, in addition to availability of lens profiles.
Kind advice: please try not to put in that much mistakes, errors and/or plain lies in one post since people rightfully tend to dislike this behavior.
Not a popular guy is he?
If I was admin, Barry would be long gone. I’m no fan of censorship, but Barry makes this forum stink. He is doing the reputation of SAR no good at all. The reputation of a website can very much be defined by its forum contributors.
You should be happy with the mirrorless systems increasing the price of your rokkors. I was lucky to have jumped on the mirrorless bandwagon almost 3 years ago back when there was still bargains with old lenses. The prices now are ridiculous for an old lens.
Transition is easier than you expect. I shoot both: DSLR and SLT right now and I find OVF to be much more relaxing than EVF.
If I go shooting for fun and I don’t need accurate exposure in manual mode right off the bat like EVF allows me to get – I’ll pick OVF over EVF. And that’s after 2 years shooting with nothing else than EVF.
As for the canon rebel rumor…there are several seperate rumors that seem to fit…
The next Rebel …q2 of 2015…will have EVF….EVF is not usefull for DSLR.
Canon has patents for pelicular mirror camera…slt..
Canon is rumored to br purchasing a Sony sensor optimized for semitransparent mirror.
These rumors combined lead me to believe Canon will move in 2 directions..
They will build thier own 3 layer high mp sensor for thier top professional camera…not sure if this will be dslr or something else..
And they will do a slt rebel with a Sony sensor….mid 2015..
I believe Canon will enter the mirrorless market but they have stated on multiple occasions that they are waitind to get it perfected first…for this reason they will enter themarket with a full developet mirrorless system…not a pieced together mismatched patchwork of a system lke Sony E mount.
Nikon has made similar comment…they plan to wait and produce a professional level full thoght out mirrorless system too.
Sony is already locked into a system that was desighned in pieces and cannot possibly compete with what Canikon will come out with.
Err good one genius, Canon already have a mirrorless system that they said they were waiting to ‘perfect’ it’s called the EOS-M and those comments were made before its release. Another Barry Fail.
The rest is the ramblings of a fu€king idiot.
Canon has only tested the waters with a few mirrorless models just to gain a little experience.
They have not yet made any attempt to seriosly enter the mirrorless market…..when they do it will be obvious.
Bahahahahaha! Canon: “we’ve been serious about mirrorless from the start”, get it through your skull Barry! They failed, they RAN out of North America with their tails between their legs. They thought they could waltz in and as long as it had a Canon logo on it it would sell, it didn’t.
So you actually think Sony beat Canon and sent them scurrying away with thier tail betwwen thier legs and out of North America…
And I was begining to think you didnt have a sense of humor.
Yes Barry, Canon withdrew the entire EOS-M system from the North American market you numpty.
You are genuinely, irretrievably stupid aren’t you?
Barry, please don’t comment on others’ sense of humour – we are all aware you don’t have one yourself. You have to be the coldest fish I’ve ever seen on a forum, and an utterly nasty piece of work to boot.
You posted the same thing yesterday. It was a flawed idea yesterday and it’s still a flawed idea today.
Nothing wrong with the notion of including OSS in new A-mount lenses, but there is absolutely no need to provide additional protocols or extension tubes when the LA-EA4 adapter exists.
You posted the same thing yesterday and I told you yesterday that the LAEA4 is an inadequite piece if $hit because A mount lenses are still not fully functional in E mount cameras.
A-mount lenses have SSM motors, which is not the same as the motors in E-mount lenses. Another spanner in your ludicrous idea.
Extension tubes and some kind of magical joint protocol isn’t going to happen because it won’t fooking work!
Type more slowly, then you might actually not come across as a complete mental case. Is this you?:
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/1578007/bloody-keyboard-wreck-o.gif
Why is this post necessary in just about every rumor post? We get that you think A-mount lenses are not fully compatible with E-mount and that compatibility is what you want.
Sony has AF Zeiss lenses. If you aren’t using those you should have switched years ago.
Bring out A57ii I say, it was a superb little camera with attitude to take on the big boys in the APS-C game. Improve upon the sensor just like A77ii with resolution round 20MP and introduce few more focus points say 35-40, and boom you have a killer camera at hand. Will have better low light performance and a good auto focus. What all say to tht?
Assuming they don’t see A-Mount as ‘legacy mount’ and don’t want to simply ‘support the existing userbase’, as E-Mount trolls put it, but are serious about competing in the DSLR market with Canikon… attracting new users to A-Mount… those who want DSLR, not mirrorless…
How do they expect to do it with this approach?
No new lenses for A-Mount?
New releases going to FE with no A-Mount counterparts?
A-Mount well supported as it is? Maybe the ‘A-Mount frustration thread’ here on SAR could give them some idea?
Change A77’s design just because of stupid? A-Mount cameras receive zero marketing, and then they wonder why they undersell, despite being better than competition?
On the other hand, new bodies are coming… and Tamron and Sigma are making great lenses for the A-Mount, unlike FE… Sony won’t make profit off those, but why should we care, as long as there’s no A99-style OSPDAF.
“Assuming they don’t see A-Mount as ‘legacy mount’ and don’t want to simply ‘support the existing userbase’, as E-Mount trolls put it…”
You never learn, do you? Why do you constantly dish out accusations of trolling? Just because you disagree with somebody or they use a different mount, it doesn’t always make them a troll.
In case you totally missed it (I’m sure you didn’t – you just couldn’t resist a dig):
“1) The a-mount will keep going with the existing lenses. Sony will support those lenses.”
IF this rumour is true, then it is a Sony decision to ‘support the existing user base’. It will have nothing whatsoever to do with “E-mount trolls” – so I can’t fathom why you chose to insert that into your comment.
There you go again “E-mount troll” despite your denials that you don’t classify E-mount users as trolls. Your true colors show again. We already get that you don’t like E-mount and therefore E-mount users (which makes you seem as mature as a 3 year old) but what benefit is there to calling them a name every chance you get. How about some tolerance of views that are different than yours?
I don’t write stuff like “Sony should discontinue E-Mount”
or
“E-Mount is so inferior to A Mount, screw everybody who loves it. Why is Sony still wasting resources on E-Mount? E-Mount guys should be happy with adapters – they can use A-Mount lenses anyway. No need to release any more E-Mount lenses; nevermind that A Mount lenses don’t have OSS. You got adapters, don’t you. Nobody wants mirrorless anyway, accept reality and be happy with what you got”.
This is the same thing E-Mount TROLLS are saying, reversed.
There’re a lot of E-Mount USERS on this forum who don’t write crap like this.
And I don’t write crap like this about E-Mount.
But it seems you call anyone that has anything good to say about E-mount a troll. You have called me a troll when I posted something positive about E-mount even though I have absolutely nothing against the A-mount and have never said a single negative word about it.
I did? My apologies then.
Changing shape and design just to make it look newer seems stupid to me.
The reviews I’ve read about the a77ii have been very positive about the consistency in shape and design. The a77 is very good in this regard, why change it?
If they really want a change in shape, why not make an a55ii as a replacement to a58? A smaller camera with looks inspired by the a77. But this time provide an optional battery grip so the camera can be made bigger with better battery capacity when that is desired.
Then you can have a small travel camera (with GPS!) when you want that, or a bigger work-horse when you want that.
Exactly. A77 shape is one of the best on a market. I tried pretty much every competitor and no other camera got grip as comfortable as A77.
Layout of a buttons perhaps might use some adjustments (eg. make ? button fully customizable) but overall – it has an outstanding body shape. It never was a problem of A77.
Add a mirror lockup (for maximum high-ISO performance and to shut down majority of criticism), put GPS back in, make some proper marketing campaign (at a very least – give camera for reviews to every larger website and magazine – it should be absolutely mandatory thing to do, no idea why A77 mk II never was given to numerous major reviewers on a market) and you’ll have a great sales. A77 mkII is an outstanding camera, just a few major mistakes basically killed the sales.
I wonder how much the lack of an in-depth review of the A77ii on DPReview.com hurt sales, at least in the US and UK. Last Spring I was seriously considering the A77ii, but low-light capability is very important to me, and I was waiting to see the high ISO comparison on DP Review. Now we’re close enough to a new A-mount announcement that I might as well wait and see what’s coming. I bought a A580 to fill-in til then. (Also a Panny FZ1000 — great camera.)
If you need excellent low-light performance, you better go for FF. To get an idea of the A77II’s ISO performance, have a look at the A6000 review. It’s very similar.
A77ii is pretty on par with A99. I work with both and was very surprised about that.
But if you buy an A580 I think you dont have the need for A77M2 anyway or even an A77.
This are a new level of camera bodies with a lot of new functionality. Not existing in A580.
One of the major advantages over other models it the AF microAdjustment feature. A must have for a serious photographer.
Hey, have you used A77 and A77 II? Do you happen to know if the eye relief is the same on both viewfinders?
The A77 had great eye relief, it was the only camera I could use with my glasses on and see the whole frame without putting it into some “don’t use the whole EVF” mode. And I liked the handling. I sometimes regret choosing a Nex-6 instead…
Are there any rumors for an e-mount aps-c camera (especially a successor for the nex7/a6000)?
Who cares!
Why would they? The A6000 just came out. There’s no need to upgrade it any time soon.
True. A firmware update (video) is probably in order.
If Sony wants consumers to see that the a77-2 is all new, maybe they should try marketing it. Also, a firmware update to support x-avc wouldn’t hurt.
Don’t see bright future for my a-mount :((
I totally agree with what ‘the management’ is thinking
Just a really silly thought…..
Wouldn’t it be nice if there was someone from Sony, who actually knew what they were talking about regarding A mount, who would actually come on this forum and address some of our concerns without telling porkies and without talking lots and saying nowt.
Ridicioulus. Problem with A77mkII wasn’t in camera shape. It was in a marketing. Almost NOONE knew about that almost all of the A77 mkII components were different to mk I. I didn’t know and I’m shooting with A-mount. That’s ridiculous.
Sony really need to get a grasp on reality.
changing the external design is a part of marketing , when they make a new attractive design it will be sold batter than the same old design.
“I didn’t know and I’m shooting with A-mount.”
WOW!! Ladies and gentlemen we have here a real BIG LOL!!!!!!!
Even if this source is legit (and I have major doubts), it adds nothing to the discussion.
Sony is focusing on FE lenses, not A… No shock there.
There are several a-mount prototypes– tells us nothing about what may actually materialize. Canon toyed with a SLT design (at least they filed a patent).
Management supposedly disappointing in the a77ii body design — I don’t really believe. Using the same body design saves money, and the body is universally liked by reviewers.
If this source is legit…. Big if… The only take away is that development of a-mount is plodding along, taking a back seat to e-mount, and nothing major is imminent.
From the evidence I’m seeing, I feel like early 2015 will bring the a9, while we won’t see any new a-mount until the spring.
” They feel it was a mistake to keep the same shape because people didn’t know it was very different.”
That is a total consumer electronics line of thinking. If that’s what management thinks, then they have no business managing a camera business. Look at Nikon and especially Canon DSLRs. An EOS 1Dx looks almost identical to every other EOS 1 ever made…
People that buy a camera like the A77 II aren’t going to avoid it because it looks like the previous model. That’s just plain management incompetence in the camera business.
Looks like the imaging department is still managed by marketing stupids or newbies, never running a business just coming from high school or university, happy to show an MBA.
I belive the opposite is the case. Evolve the A77 to A77M2 is the first time to show confidence in a special design, even compatibility to existing peripherals was a good decision. This is know to brand confidence for investment goods, which high end DSLR, SLR, SLTs are. But for sure this has nothing todo with consumer business, like the endless list of redesigned small tiny pocet cams sony dropped more or less. I am pretty sure that the guys from the consumer goods division is now running investment goods division……
But not to missunderstand my statement, I invested in Sony camera equipment since 2008 and I am more or less happy with the current top models although it could have been done better and as long as Canon and Nikon dont have switched to an electronic viewfinder I will stay with my Sony and Minolta equipment.
I agree. Especially to what you wrote in the middle section about brand confidence.
I totally agree. People didn’t bought A77II for the reason it was ugly shaped like all the old models.
They didn’t buy it because A-mount is dead.
I think it’s more because a mount has never been marketed properly. At least not in the USA
These rumors don’t exactly inspire any confidence in Sony’s ability to keep the A-mount alive. The A77II was on my short list of cameras to buy, but not now. I can’t invest in a camera system, and have the manufacturer pull the rug out from under me.
Lol!!! Next try!!!
Keep laughing. I see the writing on the wall when it comes to the A-mount.
Me too. Already stocking up on A-Mounts that people are ‘ditching’ because A-Mount is ‘dead’… it’s great!
This will happen with all SLR-style mounts. Less parts is the future of almost any technology. That mirror has no purpose when on-sensor AF technologies can outperform it.
I am assuming that the A9 will be a “hybrid” camera like the Olympus E-M1. What that means is that the camera & adapter combo will be advanced enough to match or even outperform any A-mount camera.
Pull rug how…? If what the rumor said was true, they are working on 6 new a-mounts.
6 A mounts in development = A mount is dead?
c’mon thats a bit of a stretch even for the die hard crowd.
Everybody wishes for high-end full-frame monsters with elaborate features, and i’m just sitting here waiting for an a-mount body as cheap as my alpha 200 was 🙂 guess i must be the only non-pro a-mount user left…
a used A65 for $350?
Would certainly agree,, the a65 is a whole lot imaging packed into a small light weight body for a decent price. Not the most user friendly, but it delivers the goods.
Go and buy yourself a used A77 tight NOW.
Unfortunately no one is going to invest in a system which the manufacturer itself does not seem to want to invest in anymore.
I can understand Sony wanting to push their A7 range and give as many lenses as possible to the range..but NOT at the total expense of their once flagship range. They could have, at the very least, reserved a little lens making space for the A mount and pushed out a couple of lenses just to show they were at least thinking of it, even if they were only upgrades.
Canikon are also running small mirrorless cams alongside their main DSLR’s and no way are they going to ignore one for the other, they continue to give absolutely full support to both in order to keep ALL their users happy.
If Sony do not support then people will not buy ……. if people do not buy then Sony thinks no one wants it ……. If Sony thinks no one wants it then they stop producing. All because of Sonys total lack of thought and marketing re the A mount and blinkered singlemindedness regarding the E mount.
Rubbish, tell that to Nikon 1 or EOS-M users invested in these floundering systems.
Then look over the fence at what Olympus and Panasonic have done to Four Thirds users / system. What Sony have done thus far is admirable, yet no one seems to be able to figure that out.
Maybe what Sony has done with regard to E mount is admirable, depending on your own personal point of view. Unfortunately it’s rather the opposite, however, with regard to A mount.
People will always invest heavily in new technology and Nikon 1/EOS-M users may pay the price (along with others, who can predict the future). I was merely stating that the SLT range was Sonys flagship range, now they have changed their mind and think E mount is the goose which layed the golden egg.I n fact they should have been realizing that both systems are way out in front with regard to technology and they actually have two geese laying those eggs and those geese both need feeding and looking after.
Well unlike ANYONE else Sony have actually been supporting two different systems and from very early on offering REAL compatibility from their legacy system to the new system. Nobody else has done a good job of that and no one has been fully supporting mirrorless and SLR, they either go the Olympus way and completely abandon their legacy mount without a single update post mirrorless and wait YEARS to provide any kind of reasonable support (but still not good) for their legacy users, or they go the Canon route which is to introduce a mirrorless system and then leave it completely stillborn and practically abandon the new system completely.
Sony have made the sensible choice of continuing to support their legacy system during the transition, a transition that takes time. In no time at all there will literally be no need for two different mounts on Sony cameras.
I hear what you say and in most part you are right.
What many people miss, however, is that there is definitely a enormous place in the market for large sized DSLR style cameras using 300-600mm lenses with IBIS and unless Sony are going to make E mount cameras in a variety of styles and sizes to suit both the small A7 style camera users and the DSLR style users, then they would be better keeping both mounts running side by side for far longer than it seems at the moment, especially as they are the only ones with SLT/EVF etc.
Just as an aside, being on a budget, I must admit, I really find it off putting to think that I may have to pay £1500-£2000 for a camera body (A77ll body £950), only to find I then have to pay another £300 per mount if I want to use lenses other than the E mount lenses (which cannot be used on any other camera so are not really a viable product considering Sonys idea of ‘use any lens’). Also that Sigma/Tamron are reluctant to make E mount lenses (yes, I know, use another mount).
I still want a decent sized camera body to fit my big hands and feel comfortable without the expense of fitting add-onns, to use a range of lenses from Sigma/Tamron/Sony without an adaptor, to have fast autofocus, to have IBIS, etc.etc.etc.
All of this is, of course, my own humble opinion and I understand others point of view. I just hope they can understand mine.
I do, but you are basing all of your assumptions on what is the here are now, thus why Sony are ‘doing it right’ in transition compared to how Four Thirds users (all 4 of them), they are waiting until everything is in place before transitioning which is the sensible thing to do.
A-Mount is not a “legacy mount” to be offered compatibility with the “new mount” and “supported” within some “transition period”.
It needs further development, PR, technology – it needs to be attractive to new users.
Anything other than that is the same as what Olympus did; in fact, it’s worse. It Sony decided they give up on competing in DSLR market, it would be better if they released nothing for A-Mount from this moment on, so we could get a clearer message and all switch to Nikon.
> it would be better if they released nothing for A-Mount from this moment
Nah. Sony know about the Elop effect.
Exactly – Sony treats a-mount as the ginger stepchild, then wonders why people won’t invest in it. It would cost them nothing to release a road map, but do wonders for Co firenze in the system.
They’re upset about a camera that had virtually no marketing or store presence not selling? How did you think the A77II would overcome that! No shiiiit you should have redesigned the exterior. People buy with their eyes before their brains.
Canikon have never felt the need to radically change the shape of their DSLR type cameras regardless of whether it’s a new model or a revamp of an existing version … so why should Sony. Canikon push their goods and let everyone know what the updates and new innovations are, unlike Sony.
Anyway, how were Sony supposed to change the looks of the A77ll ? What would they say..”er..this A77ll looks old fashioned, let’s give it a retro look more like the A7 and make it look even older”. Come on! DSLR type users actually like the size and shape of their cameras, they want and need them to remain very similar for very many reasons. Yes, make some slight changes but nothing is going to mean anything at all without good marketing, and Sony, unfortunately, were using all their budget for that on the mirrorless models.
6 prototypes and two of which are different. It just so happens those two “very different” cameras are barely developed yet. What have you been doing for the past two years? 4 refreshes could be done in like 6 months. This is just proof the FE development is hurting A mount. Divided attention, dwindling resources and no marketing= lifesupport.
1) No new zeiss lenses for A mount in the works. FE will soon eclipse A mount offerings.
2) Upgraded A mount lenses means more warmovers. Forget about an APO 135mm F2 killer with AF or 35mm 1.4.
3) WTF????????????????????????????
Good. I’m tired of the freakin’ cry babies on here. I hope Sony drop A-Mount like a lead balloon so I don’t have to hear the whining any longer.
I like to vent just as much as anyone else I admit. But truth is, I have zero plans of abandoning my A mount glass. Heck, I’m still using Minolta glass that’s over two decades old- why stop now?
As do I and I have the best camera I’ve ever owned hanging off the back of them and they work better than they ever have… and it isn’t a native A-Mount camera.
Yes please force the prices down on a mount lenses, I need to add a few more to my collection at a bargain price.
It would actually be better. Sony’s DSLR users would all migrate to Nikon, and Sony would be able to concentrate on the mirrorless crowd.
I mean, it would be really bad (back to OVF… grrrrr), but still better than what they’re doing right now, being prim, unable to make up their mind.
Give me 35 mm f.1,4, 90 mm Macro, 85 mm f.1,8, 15 mm f.2,8 and a 200 mm f.2,8
I think Sony is doing marketing wrong entirely, and not just with the A77ii. Last week I stopped in CameraWorld, the largest camera shop in Portland (Oregon,USA). They had an entire counter of Canon products, complete with those monster 600mm and 800mm teles. They had another entire counter of Nikons, complete with their monster ($15000+) lenses too. They had a Pentax counter – with all the latest models like K-3 plus its lenses. They had Olympus and a full lineup of M43 cameras and lenses. They had a Fuji counter with just about every XF lens, X-T1, X-Pro1, etc.
I had wanted to compare the X-T1 and the A77ii side by side, so I looked for the Sony counter.
Nope. Well, not entirely nope. They had a few older NEX bodies down on the bottom floor shelf around your feet. I asked where the other Sonys were and the guy behind the counter said Sony wouldn’t let them pick what products they could sell. He claimed they would be contractually required to carry *everything* made by Sony including all their point n’shoots, video cameras etc. And CameraWorld said “nope” to them, and is just clearing out their NEX backstock.
If what he said is true at all, and the general public can try out an Olympus or a Pentax but not a Sony, then I think it doesn’t bode well at all for *either* A or E mount at this point. Even if he is full of crap, whoever the local Sony rep is should be fired for losing the product placement.
At the other big shop in town, Pro Photo Supply, which is a little smaller, but caters more to prosumers and professionals, they carry almost the exact same lineup: Canon, Nikon, and Leica SLRs, and Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Fuji, and Panasonic “compact system cameras”. Sony is only listed for “digital compact cameras”, aka point’n’shoots: http://prophotosupply.com/products/p-cameras.htm
Regardless of what cameras are actually “the best”, if you can’t walk into a camera store in a major city and at least hold the thing, how do they expect to sell one?
I encounter the same thing..virtually no Sony cameras on retail shelve except for a few megasyores in a few big cities ….and then only because those stores carry every single product made by every single manufacturer.
I live close to one of the largest independent photo stores in New England. They have a whole shelf dedicated to Sony- they STILL don’t have the A77II for purchase.
Same in the UK – if you want a higher end camera you have to go online for the most part.
Plenty of ‘real’ stores stock higher end E and A-mount stuff. You just have to look a bit further than Currys.
Never seen anything more than the A77 in the UK and certainly not A-mount lenses. Jessops were pretty poor for Sony compared to Canon and Nikon, as was Jacobs. If you have see high-end A-mount then count yourself very luck.
Struggling to think of anywhere near me… For the department stores, Harrods sells a reasonable selection, think I saw an a7 in John Lewis, but that’s about it. LCE maybe? All the other decent independents near me are long gone
Pretty much the same thing here in Phoenix in a market of 4 million people. If you want Sony you have to go to Walmart or Best Buy and then they only carry the cheapest consumer models.
The Sony models and all other brands are available on line, the brick and mortar stores are fading away and will likely be completely gone in ten years for some of the very reasons you point out. It is fun to look at lenses you could never afford but it’s not a good criteria for selecting a camera system for daily use.
I wasn’t meaning to imply that because they had an 800mm Nikon lens for sale, that a buyer should consider that brand – but rather, the store apparently had the shelf space for rare big-ticket items that would appeal to 1 in a 1000 buyers, but apparently couldn’t bother with having a single a7 or a6000 on display. A newcomer to the scene might walk into that store and not even realize Sony is a major camera maker… and there’s no way that can possibly benefit Sony’s sales.
And sure, almost anything is available online, but holding a camera gives you a sense if it fits your hands, works with your glasses, etc. Maybe others are willing to blindly spend $2000 on something they haven’t even gotten to check for personal suitability, but I guess I’m not.
Well, bad for Sony’s reputation in the US but here in Europe, if you walk into such big super-stores, Sony has more or less the same sales area like Canon and Nikon. A little bit less actually, but still #3, much bigger than Fuji, Olympus and Pentax.
EXACTLY
‘They feel it was a mistake to keep the same shape because people didn’t know it was very different’
I don’t know what they meant by this… Do they not notice that their competitor had done the same? Perhaps some different naming schemes would be better to distinguish the differences… Like A78 maybe? or A87?
FFS! Just about every person on here complained that the A77 II was not enough of an upgrade, mostly because a) no more MP and b) same body, because they are basically the only things that ARE the same, yet the moaning was unrelenting! People are never happy.
I think they ‘noticed’ exactly what their competitors are doing with regards to keeping bodies much the same and using II and III iterations of popular models.
I spoke like that in May or (June? Too) when this camera has just been released. They even whine about stuffs that is unique to Sony’s SLR (SLT), just because they claim that there is ‘not enough upgrade’.
Yep. Sad really.
E mount got a boost.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2H5EZP9Cf8E
Hope Sony will try to make fairly decent cameras in the future.
I wonder if this would be of any benefit to the A7R shutter shake?
Anyway, Sony already use a similar mount on the A7S and it is rock solid.
I doubt it would do much for that but the flex on the a7R is disconcerting for sure. I ordered this item a few days ago, haven’t seen a shipment notification yet. Demand is probably high.
Yeah probably not, the fully metal mount definitely feels more reassuring.
Wouldn’t it be decent if they offer the A7s’ mount as a replacement for all A7r users? I paid a lot of cash for it!
Even the much maligned Nikon V1 has a better mount!
Sell the A7r buy the Nikon V1 and stop complaining.
What happened to the 400mm f4 that we designed by Olympus. Have they cancelled that too?
It never existed beyond a rumor.
It’s all good, it doesn’t matter. If we’re all honest we like to shoot A mount cause women dig it. I never leave home with anything under 500mm F4 these days. Gotta look serious.
For me the launch price put me off a77ii, but theres little wrong with the design, i havent felt the 7d or 70d where better, or the pentax’s that ive tried.
honestly the execs need to slap themselves, people who are in a77 market want a feature rich, button rich, comfortable, powerful camera. dont remove things. build the best god damn aps-c camera you can, make the canikon ones look poop in comparison.
and go to 3rd party lens makers with some money and stickers and get them to make some batches of lenses for a mount with sony sticker on em.
So while Sony is saying no new A mount lenses….because they obviosly think they already have everything a photographer could want…
Canon just anounced the CN20X50
A 50-1000mm cinema quality lens with a built in 1.5x teleconverter making it 75-1500mm.
This lens is sopposed to be both high quality and light…6.6kg…and although a price was not released Im sure its very very expensive.
Go stick a Canon up your a$s I’m sure it will give you lots of warm fuzziness.
I understand your frustration and anger…all your brand new E mount gear will soon be useless.
Yes, because of the well known best before date built into E-mount equipment.
Sony just sent Canon packing out of North America with thier tail between thier legs and a CN20X50 over thier shoulder.
Did the final screw just fall out?
It’s a super 35mm video lens not a photo lens and I didn’t see a mention of the aperture size. The PL version of the Canon could be used on the Sony f5 & f55 cameras.
I would guess that the aperture is a complex calcultion , not a simple number…based on the fact it is megazoom,cine, and 1.5x
The max f stop simply correlates to the maximum diameter of the aperture regardless of the extender. As for it being cine, the lens is possibly parfocal and they should provide the t-stop as well. I doubt the lens will go wider than 5.6 which would still be something.
The f# with and without the 1.5x would of course be different….and with all that glass if they limit the T stop based on the longest focal length than a lot of low light capability…and a lot of glass…goes unused at shorter focal lengths…thats why I think ik will not be a single number but rather multiple settings for differrent shooting ranges..plus a full range parfocal , fixed f# setting.
Technically, the aperture stays the same with or without the extender, but the equivalent changes so there is no point in being pedantic.
But they could say:
f5.6 (50mm) to f11 (1000mm);
1.5x extender active – f8 (50mm) to f14 (1500mm)
Sort of as the do for their 200mm-400mm with built in 1.4x extender.
Plus they list fixed aperture at various ranges..as expected it was not listed as a simple single number.
Oh okay, I found it now:
T5 to T8.9, which is surprisingly great for the range at a price of $79,000. It may find a highly limited niche use for outdoor nationally /internationally broadcast sporting events at that t-stop range and price.
Did you place your pre-order?
As expected this is a lens priced totally out of my range..I never expected otherwise..
However looking at the performance of the Sigma 150-600 sport at only $ 2000 and the new 1.4x and 2.0x converters the range and speed of the combination comes relatively close at a fraction of the cost an wieght.
For a top profesional wanting everything in one and having lots of money to spend the Canon is definitely going to be the go to lens….for me, I will go to Sigma.
What is wrong with you?
Does Sony make a C100/200/300 type camera (not like the FS7 or FS700, etc.)? It also sounds like it’s a cine lens, which Canon has their own line.
You are so far out of touch with reality, you cant even grasp it.
Go away Barry. Just go away.
i guess, mentioned 4 types might be different AF-module+ CMOS with same shape. just like a7 series.
Why are Sony engineers so obsessed with the SHAPE and LOOK of their products?
I thought they were over this. I remember reading an engineer’s blog about the FS100 and how its silhouette mattered more to the ergonomics than how it felt in the user’s hands.
But we all know how bad it was ergonomically.
Back to the A77 II. Its actual shortcomings were:
– No manual exposure with autofocus active in video mode
– No headphone jack
– Lag with the control dial
– Phase Detection AF for video is limited to F6.3 or brighter (Canon’s Dual Pixel AF has no such limitation).
Funny, I thought shape & look were the last things that Sony cared about. The A7 cameras look like they took a box of parts & grabbed a random body, grip, and EVF hump and then just glued them together.
“(Canon’s Dual Pixel AF has no such limitation).” No other than the fact that it doesn’t focus worth a *hit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bx9povjPtI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA6JnzYSDJE
Did you actually watch either of those videos? For both the DualPixel AF was dead on every time, the only issue was that both of the presenters seem to just be discovering that PDAF needs to be calibrated for each lens. Additionally, the second one realized that the Sigma lenses need to be calibrated at different focusing distances, which is what the USB dock is for.
The Canon dual pixel AF is flawed, not ready for prime time. Bad example to use for comparison.
And Canon refuses to acknowledge this easily demonstrable problem, leaving D70 owners in a lurch.
I have to agree, worried about the SHAPE? That is disappointing to hear. What type of photographers are your pandering to? .. come on no one really cares if it looks the same as a77, it’s called the a77ii?
could you please give a link to that blog?
“The engineers feel management was disappointed in the A77ii. They feel it was a mistake to keep the same shape because people didn’t know it was very different.”
the only mistake was removing AF LED Light, GPS and that they didnt add dual SDcard slot and 4K video. Shape of the camera? No, its not a mistake, for me is looking good. the most important is that what is inside.
Off-topic but important.
Anyone experienced wiggle with their lenses or any other similar issue on their E mount cameras because of the plastic/metal combo?
If so, then Sony should be ashamed! Now Fotodiox is going to cash in on something so essential Sony should not have cheap-out on (unless the is a perfectly valid reason to have that part made of plastic.
http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/genious-you-can-now-replace-your-e-mount-with-a-more-solid-full-metal-ring
“Genious!” 😉
Yes ( i have NEX, etc from NEX-5 that shipped even without a body cap because they did not make one at at that time!).
Some vocal Sony fanatics have been claiming otherwise and they do a dis-service to Sony and its users.
I had a 5n and NEX 7 and although I haven’t seen this myself, I wouldn’t say it’s OK to have this plastic/metal combo. Again, it would be good to hear from someone at Sony if there is a proper reason why the mount is built like this.
My second question would be to Fotodiox and find out whether the screws are mounted on the metal shell (body) or another module that is also part of the mount. I would then suspect that the A7, with its plastic build, would see no benefit whatsoever from this modification, no?
Returned 55/1.8 FE partly because of the flexing on body. Light pressure bending reveals separation so much to see through side of mount. Really flimsy little four scre mount compared to thicker six screw Alpha mount. I also questioned if the lens mount was plastic made to look like metal. And yes, iy wiggles on camera.
Mino lens is solid in LAEA adapter, but the adapter wobbles on the camera
What should I expect from a little Elpha toy camera? Certainly not teal Alpha refinement
You just wanted a good chance to bash E mount again, didn’t you? It’s OK man, really. It’s OK.
Try addressing my comments next time, instead of “bashing” them.
There’s a difference between bashing and sharing experiences.
Dude, this is awesome! The lens play was bothering me quite a while. Thank you for the link – just ordered.
The only desperate thing here to see is that even a company with the size of Sony can’t handle two mounts equally. I’ll see that Sony is committed to A mount. But E mount cameras and lenses occupy all their resources. I think, many of us couldn’t believe that. And that’s when the rumors and fanboy crying starts. But the truth is often more rational.
It doesnt matter if Sony thinks Alpha lineup is fine. Users have been crying for T/S lenses, HSM versions of portrait teles, native flash cables, better flash and camera performance, big teles that dont cost princess ransom, return Mino functionality that has been lost…
Now they threaten ergonomics and accessory compatibility.
Why are you destroying Alpha Sony?
Sony renamed NEX to “Alpha” and seem to honestly think that did the trick.
Only real A-Mount genuine Alpha threads get this many posts. Elpha’s only get praise from those who’ve yet to discover the deeper dis-functionality yet, or those who don’t understand all that’s been lost from over three decades of genuine Alpha refinements.
Both systems have their attributes, there is no reason they can’t peacefully coexist. I use both and couldn’t be happier.
Hope those two “very different cameras” won’t look like Mr. Harrison’s “Entity” from South Park.
Nope, that’s the QX series 🙂
Yes, as Hendrick the Elder reveals below (thank you)…
This is how crappy the little Elpha cams are made. See it again, we need this…
http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/genious-you-can-now-replace-your-e-mount-with-a-more-solid-full-metal-ring
No other camera in history has needed such an upgrade. Shame on you Sony, especially for calling this little toy an Alpha (which has six mount screws, more than any CaNikon even).
Thank you Fotodiox for your thoughtful and insightful design work. I hope Sony is shamed by this wonderful upgrade… But they’ll probably void the warranty because of it. Sicko’s!
You speak the truth and like you I always buy cameras based on the number of mount screws.
ROFLOL – yes that’s my top thing to look for too. The more screws the worse the mount 😉
“Elpha Ain’t No Alpha”… again? How many accounts have you got?
you are a paid troll
Eh, as Admin says I’d take everything here with a grain of salt. Some of this stuff — like the reprioritization of E-mount lenses over A-mount for the moment — we already knew about. Other things have been hinted at before, like the idea that there were A-mount FF prototypes in the field. But as I recall there was some hinting that these were shelved while they focused on E-mount. So the 6 prototypes referred to here could just be the same information as before, with those cameras still on the back burner for now.
As for the A77ii being disappointing to management… that one I would take with the biggest grain of salt. After all, we are getting this information third- or fourth-hand. The Admin talked to the source who talked to engineers in Japan who gave their thoughts on what management felt. That’s a pretty big telephone game. I have a hard time believing management would greenlight a camera for production, knowing it would look the same, and then blame the fact that it looked the same for poor sales. Maybe the engineers feel they are being scapegoated for lower sales numbers instead of management looking at their own lack of marketing for a cause? IDK, but I don’t think this is the whole story.
The part that is most concerning to me is this: “Especially lenses that are not on the a-mount already.” If Sony’s intention is to make lenses for E-mount that aren’t duplicates of A-mount, then they will never have a complete native system. They will always be reliant on adapters and A-mount lenses. This weakens both lines: A-mount users never get the less expensive f/4 zooms they asked for, and E-mount users can only use the more expensive (and large) A-mount f/2.8 zooms with an adapter.
Maybe once they’re done with filling in the gaps they can circle back around and re-create the A-mount equivalents for E-mount, but unless they do that they can’t expect to have a system that appeals to f/2.8 shooters from other manufacturers, except as maybe a second body.
I mean, I can understand why they’re doing it this way, but it’s messy for basically everyone involved: A-mount users, E-mount users, and people looking to switch completely from other brands.
A mount lenses can and should when updated include OSS and the same lens /camera communication protocals that are currently on native E mount lenses.
That way these lenses will opperate on A mount as built and on E mount with just a simple extension tube like adapter.
If they were truly compatable…which current versions are not….then seperate E mount versions would be unnecessary .
In fact new lenses intended for E mount could be built like this instead.
Unfortunately it does not look like Sony will handle anything related to A mount in a sensible manor and will end up without a viable camera division.
A-mount users aren’t going to re-buy their entire lens collection just so they can use them on E-mount. If that was the case, they would just want new native E-mount lenses without any adapters, straight tube or otherwise, and they’d make the switch. You’re talking nonsense.
If nothing else, I guess posting the same thing multiple times really helps to get that post count up.
If I really wanted to boost my post count all I would need to do is answer your comments.
The fact that I ignore most of your comments should indicate that I dont care about post count.
is there a roadmap for APS-C E mount lenses ?
It took some digging, but I think I’ve found a pic of Sony’s APS-C E-mount roadmap!
The APS-C E-Mount is dead dead dead.
I hope at least this image was captured with one of those cameras. Lol
“The engineers feel management was disappointed in the A77ii. They feel it was a mistake to keep the same shape because people didn’t know it was very different.”
If true then you can blame your focus on E-mount for that! If you don’t advertise your SLT cameras and support dealers then how on Earth do you expect them to sell well?
Again, if true this shows how spectacularly bad Sony management really is, every person in every forum I have read has complemented the A77II, Sony have gold in their hands but are clueless about it, they are so blinded by E-mount. It is a crying shame that these excellent cameras are manufactured and *cough* marketed by the terminally stupid.
I can see how people will get upset if they have thrown a lot of money into a system (notice it’s thrown not invested). But we’re talking about a camera here. Products come and go… Even if A-mount isn’t dying, it doesn’t seem like the release cycle is satisfying the users on here. If you’re not happy, just bite the bullet and switch. Some people can afford to buy a whole new system while others can’t. But if you’re waiting for the new A mount flagship, you should be able to buy a camera and hopefully a new lens to get started?
Bottom line is this is a free market. If one company isn’t meeting your needs, then switch. If you’re a professional and can’t function with the current lineup? Well you can get the same image quality from Nikon.
You can’t get an SLT from Nikon.
If that was the case, I think a lot of people would switch, instead of waiting for Sony to pull their head out of their butt.
I can think of many other companies that need to ‘pull their heads out of their butts’ before Sony need to. Sheesh!
Like what? It’s not like Canon and Nikon are going to put their flagship systems on life-support in favor of EF-M and Nikon1.
Canon has dated sensors, Nikon has financial problems, but only Sony screws their users like this.
If a77mII sells bad this is not a management problem but the marketing department problem.
And i am hoping that one of a mount camera to come is a58 body with image quality and focus system of a77mII.
“There have not been prototypes of a-mount lenses since CZ50”
This sentence is easily the most disheartening thing that this “source” says in this post. Ugh.
Yes, sad. CZ50 is easily the most expensive POS evar.
This is especially true when Sigma was able to introduce outstanding lenses at fraction of Sony’s “state of art” Carl Zeiss lenses. At least we can figure that CZ50 is designed by different group/department/company than those made Otus.
Um. Have you ever shot with it? Or. Actually. Have you ever compared files shot with it alongside files shot with a nikon 50mm F1.4 G or a Canon 50mm F1.4 ?
The SONY Carl Zeiss Planar 50mm F1.4 SSM makes those other two lenses look like a joke. Especially wide open. Honestly dude. A joke.
And it’s a shame that the folks at dxomark haven’t tested it yet on an a99 (or on an a7r). Cause if they did, 50mm lovers everywhere might actually switch to SONY.
Seriously. It’s worth its price. I bought it last year and I have never regretted the purchase for a single second. It’s a special tool that can elevate the calibre of any photographer’s work. The way that the lens draws and the ethereal look to the bokeh is just unreal. And the sharpness at F1.4 is best in class as far as I’m concerned, second only to the Otus 55mm and 85mm I’m guessing (I’ve never shot with an Otus though).
Have you ever shot with the new Sigma Art 50mm? Would be nice to see or at least read about a comparison between the two..
The Alpha 77mk2 may have been all new, but the same shape. But I cannot see any improvement over my old alpha 77. I just saw it as a Alpha 77 with a few more focusing points. I saw no improvement in the quality of the pictures.
Use one and you will definitely see the difference. Don’t just judge a book by its cover.
I have an A350, QX100, A77 and A77mk2 I do now see any improvements in the A77mk2 over my old one for ice hockey. I am hoping for a firmware update improvement. the QX100 was just a paperweight for 6 months till they brought out a firmware update then it became a fun toy.I have only done ~ 100,000 photos on the Alpha 77mk2 and hope it will become better shortly before shutter lag sets in. I might try a A7 otherwise but when you have all that investment in lenses you do not want to use an A-E mount adaptor.
“should have read do not see any improvements”
Need to get past Sensor stat shopping.. because these days all cameras take excellent shots it the system.. I had the A700, A77, now A77II A77II is a freeking amazing camera.. Its not just the focus point number.. but the intelligence behind it. The LCD and EVF are better. LCD in bright sun mode is a joy to shoot with in the summer. The new UI and making every button user definable also a joy. And I can tell you the in camera JPGS are soo good that I am shooting a bit less RAW for family and school stuff. Saving RAW for shots I am thinking about printing large.. etc.
I went that way, too (but in my a100 days) and guess what – 5 or 10 years later I feel sorry about this move. I would love to have raw files of those old pictures! All my family is gone and I have those limited raw stuff. It’s a pitty!
Maybe I am just a crap photographer or have the wrong tool for what I take most of: Ice hockey. I just know when I got the galaxy S5 it took me 2 weeks before I made a phone call on it, I was that impressed with it’s camera and 4k.
https://www.facebook.com/hockey.lossnitzer/media_set?set=a.724422980937195.1073742219.100001084981751&type=1
I like the shape of the Alpha 77Mk2 and it was good that I could use the same grip and batteries. it would have been nice if there was 4k. My Samsung S5 sometimes does a better job at taking pictures and video. I also like the fact I can point my old Alpha 77 at the sun and take a video and look at the image in real time using the SLT without burning my eyes out using a 1000mm or 200mm lens! I have not tried it with the Alpha 77mk2 as I do not want to burn the sensor out. But the old Alpha 77 works well and I use it to record sunspots.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRkOgGSF-KY
What would impress me is that the Alpha 77mk2 last more that 160,000 shots I had such bad shutter lag that the old one died at 500,000 and gets locked open. Shutter lag started at 160,000 which was less than half a years use.
Nice video! Is there a reason you chose the movement in the video? I suppose because of not burning the sensor…!? And is this realtime or slomo? Cool stuff!
I just put it on a tripod and let the earth rotate. So it is real time.
The moon one was sped up(x4) and I had dirt on the sensor.
Jupiter and its moons (in HD) if you can see them was real time with You tube compression
Jupiter:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oB59TXk_Xc
Moon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlhql80flmk
If they didn’t want to think the A77ii was a minor upgrade on the A77, why on earth would they call it and A77ii? That clearly has more impact than the shape.
Cause they forgot some Canon owners and IPhone owners are mindless.. and it works for them
They should have named the A77II, “A77: Machine Gun Edition.”
Basically Sony APS-C top gun.
So…more sales if they had named it a88?
what happend to “not judge a book by their cover” or “a rose would smell the same if had another name”
oh…rigth… sometimes i forgot pothography world is out of this world, another reality, paralle universe
now guess… the last one its sarcasm or reality?
PD
at most SR1 or SR-1, 4 prototypes or currenta A cameras lol
a99ii maybe, a77iii not that soon, a58ii maybe, the a65 and a37 are dead and not a refresh its coming (at least sony say that when they released the a58) unless a99ii with diferent sensors count as more than 1 prototype, but i hardly think so, the other points are just bla, bla bla…
Just give me a 36mp A-Mount, and a upgraded 35mm G-Series, and I’ll be happy
Both 36Mp sensor and the 35mm lens went to E-Mount
This is Sony’s plan to migrate users to Nikon
I don’t really think the A77II didn’t sell well because it looked the same as the A77. The A77/A77II have excellent bodies. I think it was because people feel the A77II Is what the A77 should have been in the first place and the changing of the Flash mount is the 2 biggest reasons and people don’t want to get screwed (Again) by Sony.
Yup, Sony changing the flash mount will keep me from ever buying a Sony Camera again in Any mount.
That’s stupid reason to not by a camera.. because it changed to an ISO show with connectors for advanced features.. Its like never buying a car because they put in a digital radio.. The A77II is an amazing camera and my HVL-F56AM works perfectly on it with the adapter..
You must be joking. “Stupid”?
WHAT advanced features did the new hotshoe bring to Sony strobists? WHAT? They screwed us hard. A visionary designer would have improved the iISO for the same snap and go convenience and all the new accessories too.
The new shoe is the most fragile piece of cr@p ever made. You’re obviously NOT a flash user Ken.
The first third party company which crafts a new trigger that is compatible with the old receivers (for example Pixel King, a new Pixel King that fits on A77 II without adapter and is compatible with the old receivers) will earn a lot of money, I think. I have a lot flashes with Minolta hotshoes and now this new Iso-Mount and I asked Pixel and some other companys about the new ISO-shoe and the old mount and the simple answer was “we stay with the old Minolta stuff, ’cause we invested a lot of money into that”…
Wait and see… Maybe in a few years they will come out with that
Can’t disagree with the need to keep the covers on gear Mic or Flash (adapter in my case.. when not in use.the small pins on the flashes etc will not take being tossed in a bag like the old show. ) But being mad for 2+ years over it seems to be a bad way to live. I keep the shoe covers on my strap in the same pouch I keep a spare SD card.
Do you not have a nose? Because that adapter cracks my nose bone when shooting vertical mode. Not easy to live with that for 1500 shot client shoots. It hurts. It’s painful in vertical mode. AND IT DOESN’T LOCK!
Why should I have to adapt to get smart flash functionality? Why are you redefining “stupid”? NO native flash cables… except with a double adapter now? You want “stupid”, well there it is friend. New flashes don’t fit my soft boxes any longer because they need adapters to fit my smart radio slaves. How “smart” is that for the Sony pro who NEEDS his flash to work?
Sony made my job much harder than it used to be. All for the sake of a stinking microphone that would be better served on a side port. Not even all the MIS accessories work with all the cameras. Sony is the epitome of “stupid” for doing such a thing to their most loyal evangelists.
I have a Nose and eyes and I know my HVL-F56AM looks just like a Metz or most other flashes with the adapter on.. vs the very low profile the old shoe allowed.. so even with the adapter the flash doesn’t take on some unusual nose eating shape. I can also guess since this change is now over two years old and your entire persona (user name) is based on it.. and you are ranting about it like it just happened.. that you have not been able to move to rational solutions yet.. emotions seem to have clouded some basic facts.
If you bought a new camera from anyone else .. you get to change all your flash gear out .. at a large cost.. Where as with Sony.. you buy a new body with the new shoe. You can
A) use an adapter on the camera and not change a single thing on all the gear you talk like you would have to replace. spend $25 and move on.. end enjoy life more..
B) Pretend that a new shoe on the camera means you have to replace all your flashes and lighting stands and triggers and post this same rant over and over.. ignoring the reality.. “the shoe is different deal with it..”
While you have chosen “B” it seems like the path of least enjoyment..
(BTW I prefer the old shoe and agree more pins on that would have been my choice.. but I am enjoying my A77II way too much to fuss over the $25 adapter I use with my HVL56AM flash.. it works well.. maybe better than my A700 or A77 did)
It is what it is.. the choice is yours.. be angry for many more years.. or shoot with the adapter which to my test is the smallest thing I can mount near my nose vs a trigger or a flash..
I hope the system you are using will never change mount =)
I don’t think new flash mount is a big reason that keep people away from buying A77II. IMO the reason for not selling well is SONY is not giving confidence to A-mount user for the survival of the system.
A healthy system should have cameras and lens renew regularly, but A-mount is not having that. New stuffs keep postponing is also a reason people seeking new systems and bands
I was accused of being repettitive when I posted over and over again that Sony should have put thier 32mp sensor in the A77II instead of another 24mp sensor…
Now…what a surprise…people think its the same camera because it looks the same and jas the same megapixels…
Tell Management Engineering and Users are disappointed with their lack luster marking of the best APS camera ever made. Sony management needs to be fired.. have they notice that every Canon and Nikon looks the same? Blaming the body look is the excuse a lazy shameful marketing team uses when they don’t do good advertising, AR and PR relations… I work in the marketing business.. In the old days of Japan the level of SHAME Sony should feel for not hyping the hell out of the A77II (and releasing a couple of NEW lenses with it) would have ended on the pointy end of curved sword. So someone new could mourn the old team and get it right..
Call NEX an Alpha to make them more similar.
Change Alpha design to make them more different.
Narcissistic Sony psychopaths.
7D mkII body is very similar to 7D, and it is amazing.
No, it isn’t its too much the same looking to be better.. oh wait Canon advertises its new DSLRs where Sony seems to take the Kevin Costner attitude.. “If we build it, they will buy” and when no one shows up.. blames the camera. If this rumor has any truth.. it says Sony management is clueless and immature.. not a good combination..
Sony management deliberately wants to make A mount fail so they can justify the unpopular move of discontinuing it!!!!!
Thet A77II was built with a24mp sensor instead of the 32mp sensor that actually outperformed it.
They now claim this has almost all new components….but deliberately chose not to increase the mp and complain that people dont consider it a new camera…now they use that to justify changing the looks and delaying the new releases again…with nothing being released they can point to plummeting sales.
Sony management is deliberately sabotaging A mount because they want to discontinue it but cannot justify discontinuing it unless it is a failure.
Sony management is really good at turning succesfull divisions into failures.
If Sony introduces thier newest sensors to E mount before A mount that absolutely guarantees a mass exodus from A mount…which probabnly guarantees that that is what Sony will do.
They can perfectly fine discontinue A-Mount without any “justifications” and putting R&D into new AF system for A77-II.
Barry, please, get some help. If you haven’t figured it out already, you are ill.
Your illness is causing you to ruin this forum with your trolling and posting of bizarre conspiracy theories.
More significantly, are you not concerned with the damage you could be causing your business, http://www.animalsbybarry.com ? Who in their right mind is going to do business with somebody who exhibits such disturbing behaviour?
Get some help now, for your sake and the sake of everybody who visits and contributes to this site.
This is a rumor site
People come here to read about what has recently happened, what is happening, whatmay happen soon , and what is interesting.
I choose controversial topics that generate a lot of conversation and add much value to this site.
When I speculatete you complain I dont know what I am talking about.
When I say something you dont want to believe you say Im insane
When I say something non controversial you complain I am obvious and everyone knows that.
And when I answer the same complaints you make over and over again you complain I am repetitive…
We get it..you are not a fan of me and dislike everything I say no matter what it is…thats fine …thats the price of my deliberate choice to make controversial statements.
Niether you or anyone else that disslikes my comments needs to read them…and in fact it might be better for your own mental health and well being if you didnt….
Some people actually enjoy reading my comments and look forward to seeing what off the wall comment I will make next.
It is to them I address my comments …not to those like yourself that do not like my comments.
I also sometimes use this forum as a platform to voice opposition to things Sony does that I do not approve of…and this obviously upsets you the most….
Sony has room to improve and I see value in the critisism too.
So based on your new inderstanding of my comment you can
Skip my comments
Tone down you insults
Or continue to make all the insults and critism you want
So you deliberately troll?
Thank you, that’s all I needed to know, Animals By Barry (http://www.animalsbybarry.com).
2) The engineers have 6 prototypes for new (A-mount) cameras. Two are very different than previous cameras,:
I believe, the will be larger body, accommodating two batteries and integrated vertical grip.
By the sounds of SONY management, those two are very differently shaped!!
Although I found it hard to believe, it seems that the A-mount is already dead. Just look at Zeiss policy regarding its fabulous Otus Lenses. Zeiss has refused to release these lenses for the A-mount while Canikon shooters complain about having difficulties focusing these lenses manually. We, A99 owners, could have simply gotten the most out of these fantastic Otus lenses taking advantage of the EVF and the focus assists that come with it. I, personally, sent Zeiss and email asking if these lenses would be released for A-mount in the future and the answer was ”No, these lenses were planned for Canon and Nikon cameras from the beginning”. To my understanding, Zeiss does not release lenses for the A-mount because does not see any future for it, otherwise they like to sell more lenses. If I switch to either Canon or Nikon, I will never look back at Sony.
Sadly, this seems to be the truth. There has been zero solid evidence so far that Sony intends to develop A-Mount, not just support it while migrating its users to Nikon and E-Mount.
For f****’s sake, even wiki refers to “the legacy Minolta A-mount”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirrorless_interchangeable-lens_camera
Management is stupid if they think that the way a camera is shaped drives sales at the $1500 price point. Change of looks for the sake of change is stupid. Make changes better.
What I’m monitoring is whether Olympus’s 5-axis stabilization makes it to a E-mount. If so, I may switch.
Actually, I am sure that different body design would have helped to noticeably boost A77m2 sales. But simply not removing GPS and not removing useless AF assist lamp and adding XAVC and in-camera RAW converter would have helped too. The discount they now give for the camera is more than the price of GPS module and the lamp.
I agree with other SAR readers that main is reason is a lack of confidence in A mount.
Hence, another option to boost sales of A77m2 was to release A99m2 with *sealed* 24-70Z ASAP.
These 7 points on the progress of the A and E mounts, put with similar rumours over the past year mean one thing: the A-mount is now effectively dead. There will be slight improvements, or ‘upgrades’, but there will be no more major, and completely new, A-mount products. Sony has been saying this, in coded form, for at least a year now, and I am very glad that I have not bought any new A-mount lenses for over two years.
Sony’s approach to the camera business is just like their approach to Hi-Fi equipment years ago: they could never decide whether to really use their engineering talent to create outstanding products and always ended up building mid-quality stuff for the mass market. Maybe that was a better business strategy, but Sony have underperformed as a business for two decades or more. However, to me, any amateur-enthusiast, semi-pro or professional camera user should never rely, and I mean rely, on Sony. They make some nice stuff, but there is too much of the ever-changing mass-market in their thinking, and not enough of the long-term system building.
As I said, it is now clear: the A-mount is dead.
Give me an updated A58 with better screen, manual iso range, better iso performance and metal mount and my money is on sonys bank acc