Sony can do some great cameras but their firmware updates are somewhat disappointing. A77, A99 camera owners are still waiting for major improvements. I just read an article at MirrorlessRumors with an interview with Fuji manager Mr.Kawahara. He mentioned as one of the companies main goals is to support and improve its cameras via firmware update. He literally said: “We want you to use our camera longer and longer in your life.”
It’s high on my 2014 wishlist that Sony not only will keep making good new cameras but also to keep releasing good firmwares. I think this would help to create confidence around Sony and motivate more people to join in Sony’s A and E-mount system. I know that developing new firmwares is costly, but it’s also a good long-term investment!
So please Sony, in 2014 try to make current Sony camera owners happy too!
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You couldn’t be more right. Actually, they seem immediately disinterested in their camera bodies about one week after launch.
I wish they improved their software game overall. Would make a huge difference.
NEX7 got a significant firmware upgrade.. so maybe there is hope
I have been waiting too long for the firmware upgrade, other cameras have been prioritised (again) over my A77. This is a trend that shows that Sony are interested in shifting boxes rather than meaningful customer support. I moved from Canon because I liked the A77 so much, however the pegs are so poor that I am now looking at other brands for my next purchase.
Sony could be great but need to do two things to encourage people to buy from them: create products that are still very functional after 2 years, and work extremely hard on creating an after sales/customer care service that works. My Bravia TV developed some terrible shadows after the warranty ran out and Sony could not give a monkey’s toss that many other people have also reported the same problems.
I recently sold all my Canon gear and chose Fuji for my photographic stuff. I would certainly never go the route of Sony for the reasons I have mentioned above. Not that the FF cameras are bad, I just don’t have any faith or trust in the company. I will change my TV this coming year to a Panasonic if I dare say that name here!
I agree! This would be a major step for Sony to get a bigger and loal community!
Edit: I agree! This would be a major step for Sony to get a bigger and loyal community!
That rather depends on how you look at it.If you consider firmware updates as a way to add bonus features to the camera fair enough.If however you use it to bring a camera up to scratch and fix problems { such as the slow AF on Fuji models }that should have been dealt with prior to release,that’s not so good.
Wow, what a way to look at it. It really depends, some people will always find ways to complain. My gosh.
Fuji is updating even the X100, a discontinued camera! With new features and even more improvements. None of the NEX cameras are particulary fast on AF, nobody would complain if it could get faster – well, except you.
Focusing speed depends on many factors, not just algorithm(which can be updated via FW update). Personally, if the algorithm is bad during release, that’s not a good thing. It’s kinda rushed to the market. What’s better is they open the software so we can use our own algorithm.
The fuji firmwares not only improved the autofocus but added several features that didnt exist in the camera. This is their philosophy, always improving and I cannot see how can this be a bad thing. The autofocus of the new cameras are great but Fuji will still release new updates to improve their cameras. I firmly believe that this sets a good example for other companies
That would be a great…lol. But Sony will not change their philosophy of buisinnes.
No, you and so many other got it all wrong.
It’s not as they rushed man, that was the FIRST GENERATION of Fuji mirrorless camera, look at Canon, such a big company and how bad the first gen was in AF. Fuji simply didn’t have the know-how, they didn’t have the algorithms, they were developing and implementing it. It took a while to Micro4/3 have the AF speed they have now, things don’t usually happen with the first gen.
People claiming that Fuji’s firmware is just an proof that they released a bad camera in the first place is COMPLETELY ignoring this very simple and important fact. You HARDLY see a first gen doing all great, there are always hiccups but better try to correct them like it matters than don’t doing anything.
Please people, you got to do a more in depth take instead of simply ignoring facts that matters. It’s like comparing the first generation of games of a new console as if that’s the best developers will be able to produce.
Lol. The irony. That whole post here is about “always find ways to complain”.
As I wrote somewhere below, just look at focus peaking. Fuji introduced it two years later than Sony and it is not as good. Great learning example.
Some people love to complain…about people that love to complain.
It never ends!
“Wow, what a way to look at it. It really depends, some people will always find ways to complain. My gosh.”
I know its shocking to have outrageous expectations such as assuming that AF should work at a decent level the day the cameras is launched :-).
I did specifically mention “”firmware updates as a way to add bonus features to the camera fair enough “.
If you are happy to wait often months or the manufacturer to get round to fixing a flaw that should not have been there in the first place then ,by gosh :-)I am shocked
As I wrote, you are comparing a first generation of cameras from Fuji to 3rd or even 4th generation from other manufacturers, that’s the difference, not anything else. It’s not like they rushed or like they did on purpose, they were still in the learning process, it’s just that.
In a perfect world I would agree with such statement but is our world perfect ? No, I dont think so; it is far from perfect. In such an unperfect world I believe that later is better than never and therefore I very much welcome regular firmware updates to be issued along the product life cycle. I was seduced by the Sony NEX-5 as soon as I saw it in a shop as its large sensor and small / light form factor fitted perfectly in my permanent traveller lifestyle. I feel that this camera was rather well supported by Sony with 4 or 5 firmware updates. lost the NEX-5 with the 16mm pancake in Paris when I left it a taxi on the 26th September, the same day I replaced my loss with the NEX-6 and 35mm 1.8 OSS as it seemed more advanced than the NEX-7. I had to update the firmware as well as all the E mount lenses firmware too ! Therefore I do not understand the criticisms about the lack of firmware updates, is Sony not anymore issuing anymore firmware updates for their cameras products ? How many years after market release will Fuji pursue with firmware updates vs Sony ? Also, what is the life cycle of these digital cameras these days ?
The firmware issue is one of the main things that Sony needs to focus on in the near future.
They will remain a less consumer friendly, more rank amateur oriented company until they make their longer term relationship with current owners more fruitful and rewarding.
As it is now, they pump out new camera bodies, and leave current owners on their own. This is a conquest strategy that will eventually bite them on the rear.
There are only so many new Sony camera’s I’m willing to buy to upgrade something that could have been done via firmware on the camera I already own.
-Marc
Sony should release a A7 like fiM<rmware for the NEX 6 and NEX 7… Also things like not be able to trigger bracketing with timer or IR is a major shortcoming. You could think they never ever thought about it, just mash some functions together in some menus.
Paul, this is representative of the Sony way of doing things. You would think engineers and developers, not photographers run the show.
Can almost hear them say “we included Sony auto HDR mode… this feature you want is irrelevant”
If Sony would just hear the voice of Some Forums like DPreview they could easily build the best cameras on the market. It does not always need a better highISO, it does not always need to be the lightest camera. Functionality the one and only reason where Nikon and Canon are waaaay ahead of Sony.
…and this happens to be Minolta legacy, not Sony fault. Siny should have figured that removing cable release will require redesign of this area
Nex line did get some decent updates. Far from Fuji where new features were added but still original nex 5 the nex7 did get some fixes and minor improvements.
Thus would be very nice in the higher end where models change less frequently and price is much steeper e.g. a99, nex-7 and a7 now
I would not mind if feature updates cost a bit of money. End of day it is better to get a camera for 3-5 years with updates than 1-2 years as is the current cycle. Both approaches can probably co exist.
Ah! This is rather interesting since new features were indeed added to the NEX-5.
While Sony could certainly do more in terms of firmware, I do not see how Fuji should be the example here. Maybe Sony should release the NEX-9 without focus peaking and make everyone happy a year later by putting it in a firmware upgrade.
They did just that with nex-5
Sony did that as a first on a camera from 2010. Fuji introduced peaking this year, on cameras from 2012 and its implementation is still not as good as Sony’s one.
That’s a bad way to think about it. I bought an x100 knowing what it was (and wasn’t). That Fuji continues to add features (even if they aren’t best in class) is amazing. I can only dream that Sony will treat me as a new A7r owner in the same way.
That’s a bad way to think about it. I buy the Sony with all these best in class features. I can only dream that Fuji will treat me as a new X-E2 owner this way. 🙂
My point is the following. Sony does make updates and quite often actually, roughly the same as most other companies. Fuji is the exception here, simply because they introduced cameras that were lagging behind the competition. While that is certainly laudable, I don’t see what can Sony learn from them.
If we are talking about how all camera manufacturers are bad at updates, then I’d agree, but singling out Sony in this particular case is preposterous.
What Sony can learn from Fuji is how to treat their customers and not force the next version of the hardware on them, to support a camera long after the next model is out. It builds customer loyalty. And let’s not forget that Canon did do a feature upgrade for the 7D years into its life and Canon dslrs are generally very reliable and well thought out.
Fair enough on the Fuji point. As to the Canon, Sony did a huge upgrade on the A700 too and Sony cameras are also very well thought-out and reliable, I am not sure what you are referring too here.
Could not agree more… some idea’s for you Sony for the A77..
Few idea’s mainly for A77/A99
– Change screen brightness quickly by long press display button (as with other Sony cameras)
– Change flash exposure setting quickly by long pressing the +/- exposure button.
– “preview” setting for the image to only auto preview IF your eye is removed from the EVF and only on the back screen for x amount of seconds then the screen will go off and not be used/powered to save battery and remove the need to have it turned inwards most of the time to help save battery.
– 2 levels of preview zoom, eg, if default zoom is 100% a 50% zoom first would be good then press again to get 100% zoom.
– Zoom in/out and zoom scrolling needs to be faster and more responsive.
– Fix flash consistency issues
– Faster switching between LCD and EVF
– display both video and photos in display mode (together)
– 720p video mode
– Let users specify to set the camera in PAL or NTSC mode
– Tether support
– Enhanced Tether support if possible, such as: remote live view, full access to all camera settings and changes, Native Adobe Lightroom support (release open standards for developers to use)..etc..etc..
– Customizable “?” button
– Improved start-up and shutdown times
– In general improved reaction/response times with camera operations and changes
– Higher ISO limit in video mode
– Improved buffer handling and faster flushing of cache to memory, it seems even with the slower fps’s settings the A77 does not cope as well as it perhaps could?
– Transfer some of the A99 features into the A77 if possible
– Ability to save camera serial number in EXIF (if a user chooses to enable the option)
– Timelapse photo mode
– JPEG engine update
There is one major issue here. Sony as a big corporation does not see things like we would like to see. Once they got their ROI, that’s the end of the support unless there is a major flaw that need firmware update. Just my 2 cents.
They should add adjustable auto-iso with minimum shutter speed (registrable by 6-8 lenses) to all nex cameras and re-configure the top plate fn button on 5r/5t/6 (more assignable functions plus, more importantly, the ability to cycle through those functions with the fn button, without resorting to the second dial, which would allow truly one hand operation). This alone would be a great improvement and I would be happy to pay for it. On a new model they should return to the 5n type capacitive touchscreen, add improved visibility (tech like on rx100), add standard hot-shoe and built-in flash to the 5 series and they had a winner. Any improvements in IQ, af, metering would also be welcome, the 16mp sensor is quite old by now.
I would also welcome GR or nex-7 style fixed lens Aps-C camera with 35/50/85 lenses, preferably f2 and IS, but with IS 2.8 could be passable.
How old is the NEX-6 16MP sensor ? Do we have APSC sensors supporting better IQ and hybrid AF yet ? I do not see 2 years as “old” and I am happy with the pictures I get from my NEX-6.
I guess the sensor appeared with the first slt-s, around 2010. But, even if it were 1/2 years old, some improvement could be expected with the next iteration. In fact Sony already has something they consider as improved version, this year’s 20mp sensor. However , the main point of my comment is not the sensor improvemen, but the camera operation, which should be improved in the first place and things that work well, like 5n touchscreen should not be downgraded in next generation.
Yeah, I just told my friend regarding software update the other day and how it could bring customer loyalty.
Sony is doing it with their pro-cinema line, the F5 and F55 received significant updates just via firmware. Now I hope they will do the same with their camera line. Fuji certainly proved that many could be improved just via firmware update.
It works differently in cinema line. Firmware update is part of product upgrades. They even announce firmware road map. But I’m pretty sure they charge for it.
Sony make new firmware all the time.
They just call them ‘new camera’ and move on.
No money in actual firmware updates.
Lots if you hype and sell the latest and greatest every six months instead like Barnum said.
If a company gives you “reason to believe” that an issue might be corrected in the future – it takes some of the stress out of the purchase decision.
“Ok, this is a problem but maaaaaybe they will fix it with a firmware update”
With Sony – there’s really no reason for this kind of hope. I think it does hurt the brand a bit. They are known to be tone deaf to their customers (whether this is true or not is another discussion).
Would people be interested to pay for upgrades of their camera / lenses through firmware updates ? Bugs corrections would remain free of charge of course. The other alternative option be for Sony to include a 5 years firmware upgrade / updates as standard to their camera but this may increase the products retail prices…
I think you would be surprised by the amount of people who would pay to add features to their camera. In fact they already do, they are called accessories and lenses. 😉
first of all, firmware improvments are uber cheap, also they could just make some parts of firmware open source, but Sony won’t, because marketing says they need to release new model every 3 months
Exactly. Opening the source code to clever people would mean opening up features that would harm their higher end cameras and newer models. However, it would also attract people to their cameras, perhaps giving an overall net benefit to Sony sales.
I agree, i have call custumer service with My a55 6 month after buy it. i cannot turn off the image preview in the live view In manual mode. with studio flash and trigger i ineed to pop up the flash and put something in the front of the flash for view something. I still wainting 3 year later the update and people with the generation after my a55 is a65 have this option.
Have you tried turning on settings affect?
They can also learn something from NASA.
http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-78664740/
I think that rover on a different f-ing planet has been updated more often and with more substantial upgrades than my nex7
I keep Fuji high on my list particularly because of the firmware upgrades. Nikon in particular does did this recently with 600 to 610 should be ashamed of themselves. Nobody likes to feel hustled.
While I am grateful for the free updates from Fuji, I do not expect the firmware updates to be free, and would be more than willing to pay a reasonable fee to benefit from the effort Fuji makes to offer improvement to existing products. In fact, if Fuji were to begin charging for firmware updates I would feel much more comfortable with the viability of Fuji going forward. Whatever Fuji decides to do in the future, I do believe their habit of not forgetting those who have invested in their product line is an illustration of superior moral character in the Fuji camp.
While the various “Fanboys” dispute the innate superiority of their particular brand, even a casual observer can see that no manufacturer is perfect; all are capable of failing to address some important aspect of use in new products. Fuji’s ongoing willingness to admit and address, where possible, problems and needed improvements in their product gives me confidence Fuji is the right choice.
My only disagreement with Mr. Kawahari is that Sony does not need to “learn” from Fuji, Sony already knows that Fuji is doing the right thing, it is only a matter of whether Sony, and others, will begin to do the right thing.
Wayne,
You’re spot on no product is ever perfect,but a company willing to admit that improvements can be made speaks volume of their ethical standards . I have the a99 and love it , but I want firmware upgrades for it . Sony should also think about it’s current customers not just potential ones .
A57 users wont MINOR adjustments at least.
+1000 for software upgrades to curreent cameras.
I have the a77 and the a99.
It is a known problem that the jpg engine has major shortcmings.
The low light performance is also poor.
Both of these problems are clearly firmware issues and not hardware issues.
Sony is not going to release the new camera I want for two more years.
They clearly have a firmware solution to these problems available as the a7 and a7r no longer have these problems.
I do not expect that sony will ever fix the problems in my cameras becausethey want me to buy new ones.
I dont have the money to buy the continued small upgrades nor do I see any value in doing so…so I continue to wait for the major upgrade I want.
Adobe offers upgrades to its software for a fee..
You can buy an upgrage to your current software for less than the cost of new software. Even that would be better than no upgrade options.
Correction
I have the a65 not the a99
The ,a99 was one of those ….not a big enough upgrade cameras….I talked about.
You can write all you want in firmware but hardware has limitations. Do you really know if all firmware issues can be fixed the way you described it? Who over here really knows inside and out of firmware and hardware better than Sony that can make all these comments about?
Everything in moderation.
Sony wants to develope new products and make inovations..thats a good thing.
But they also need to put a moderate effort into supporting those that buy those products. You need to be carefull what you wish for.
If sony wishes for people to buy new products sooner than they are ready…because of lack of support for the current products…people may very well buy those new products…FROM SOMEBODY ELSE!
That is reasonable. Sony like other companies adjust their strategies the best they can with the objective to increase profits, revenues, market share and customers loyalty whilst keeping costs and expenditure at a reasonable level. I would hope the fact customers can and do switch is considered in their strategy… I personally cannot switch to any other brand at this time since since the NEX-5 I have not seen better value for money cameras elsewhere given that I am looking for large sensor, high IQ, high performances in a small form factor. And Sony did several firmware updates on that camera too ! Now, some cameras may be better supported with firmware updates than others…
The world has moved on and there are better ways to fix your old camera…
Issues for me were the low ISO noise and the low bitrate on video, both ‘fixed’ by myself:
For the low ISO, DxO 9 Prime NR. Import the Sony RAW, export as DNG, then reimport into LR. Job done. Also has far better lens correction than Adobe – very important if like me you use ultra wide a lot.
For the video codec, I simply bought a GH2 from ebay for peanuts, got a mFT to alpha converter, and use my Sony/Minolta lenses on it. Far better video for the price of a couple of Tiffen filters and a lens cap.
I shouldn’t have to do this, but its really no big deal, as I do this all for fun and the tinkering and working through the issues is part of the package.
So what’s reasonable life cycle of firmware updates for each Sony camera, 1 year-2 years-3 years-4 years ?
Now how many cameras Sony have in total?
I don’t think they have the man power to do so right now.
Does anyone know why it is the way Sony does their business ?
A life cycle at least as long as Sony is selling the camera model is reasonable.
I would say a camera or product should be supported x years after the last one was kept on the company catalogue i.e. current product. No one would be happy to buy a product and find out that it is not supported anymore a week after buying it, right ? So how many years should a product be supported after it was terminated from the company catalogue ? My benchmark is the NEX-5 which had 4 or 5 firmware updates throughout its life cycle.
I mentioned the f60 flash to him and he seemed to know about how poorly it performs (but he did not explicitly say this). It sounds like Sony needs more or better pre-release camera testers who are actual photographers.
Lack of manpower is exactly what we are complaining about.
If Sony could hire even two more good software engineers for their Alpha division, there could be more updates.
However, good software engineers are hard to find, and finding ones who understand photography is even harder. Some of the worst faults in Sony’s firmware are due to simple ignorance of photography, such as not realising users would need to combine delayed action with bracketing.
Anyone who has followed Sony as a company knows they don’t improve products via firmware updates. It’s just not in their DNA. They use those minor updates as ways to push upgrades and new sales. Don’t expect anything different in regards to cameras. Hell, their entire camera lineup stands as a testament to that practice. They will continue to make great products that are always a step short of perfect so that they can use those few missing but obvious common sense features in the next version.
My A100, A700, A900 and Nex-5 all had firmware updates that both fixed problems and brought new functionality.
That is nonsense (as GH pointed out) and just shows that you haven’t followed anything. I don’t know of a single company that does much better in terms of firmware. They all suck at this.
Their track record is atrocious. The NEX line alone has a laundry list of head scratching basic feature omissions and downright limitations that could have easily been addressed via updates, but were not. They just release new models with a few changes and features and move on. Just because most camera companies are traditionally bad at updates themselves, doesn’t mean that Sony isn’t among the worst. I love my NEX cameras, but loving a product doesn’t blind me to the way the company operates. Fuji may well be forging ahead of everyone by supporting their cameras more post-release, but Sony will be among the last to do it if they ever do it. They are an old, monolithic electronics company and supporting old products simply is not part of their DNA. Hell, half the time one division doesn’t even know what another is doing.
I can show you cameras from every brand having “head scratching basic feature omissions and downright limitations”, some of them even made for the pro market. And, again, I disagree with Sony being among the worst, it is simply as bad as everyone else. While this certainly isn’t an excuse for Sony, I don’t see what exactly they can learn from Fuji who put beta cameras on the market and redesign sensors for no reason.
And not sure what I am blinded about here. I chose Sony after using Canon, Nikon and Pentax. By the way, I chose it over Fuji and hardly regret my decision even today. Well, I’d buy an E-M1 if I was doing this today, but that is another discussion.
Depends on the division, do you own a ps3?
The PS3 is an exception because it’s meant to have a multi-year lifespan. Even then what you got was mostly a response to the Xbox 360 and the reality that they had to keep up to survive. If it hadn’t been for that we wouldn’t have seen nearly the updates that we did.
In general, Sony is not a company that supports its products, post release, with new features..
what happened to the a77 firmware that was supposedly coming this past summer while all a-mounts were postponed through all of 2013? well, that body just sat in the closet while i used my fujis full time.
I feel that with the NEX, RX1/R and now the A7/R ranges Sony has innovated and significantly improved their camera products line vs the competition. The NEX-5 was so much ahead that it got me into Sony whilst I had Canon compacts before. Fuji is also on the right path with their products though. Now, I am keen on mirorless cameras today because of their large sensor / smaller form factor combination vs DSLRs which I find huge, heavy, bulky and hugly but having said that I have nothing against mirrors, pentaprisms, etc… Afterall the thing I am after a large sensor, high performances i.e. for sports/fast moving objects, high IQ, small form factor camera and I cannot care less if there is a mirror, prism, etc… in it or not.
This is a different debate subject though…
When I chatted with Mark Weir of Sony at Photoplus, I asked him a firmware update for the a99 or other a-mount was coming anytime soon. He seemed surprised and asked me what needed fixing. Given that there is such a long list of wants, I didn’t know where to start. I think I mentioned the inability to set shutter speed and use AF for video. After discussing it, he agreed that shutter speed could be set but I got the sense that those at Sony think the camera software is just fine.
Moving forward I realize that I have to be perfectly satisfied with a Sony camera / accessory as it ships and functions before purchasing it because it will not be updated. Sony hasn’t done anything to fix the defective f60 flash let alone improve cameras after the fact.
Mark Weir needs to get to know his products better if he was surprised about the need for firmware updates. Perhaps he should read the forums sometime, the idiot.
To be honest, the first three firmware upgrades were what made the original NEX-5 usable as it is in the first place.
Do you mean that the NEX-5 could not be used to take good pictures before the firmware updates i.e. the camera was 100% useless ? This is certainly not my experience, I took pictures with it straightaway. Dont you think your statement is a bit of an exageration or would it be a joke ?
New firmware need not be costly. Major improvements can be realised with trivial changes. Yet Sony does not *want* such improvements, this is a mere company philosophy.
Firmware updates are always welcome. I would hope that in QA and field testing Sony would have developed a list of areas that needed tweeking. Software development is full of this type of iteration, going back to the customer to find out what is working and what needs improvement. At some point the code is frozen and final testing happens, this is when the list for the changes should start, then be prioritized and followed up on. Doesn’t Sony write software? I’m an a99 and f60 owner and I would like to know that these two products are the best they could be. I thought Sony wanted to cater to professionals? Shouldn’t ongoing support of the “flagships” be part of that?
I think this is an important distinction. Advanced amateurs and semi-pro/Pros will update via firmware when made available … where the general public may not.
Sony’s strategy is obviously to sell cameras and make a profit. To do that they must take sales away from other makers since the camera market as a whole is shrinking, not growing. As cell phones improve, fewer and fewer rank amateurs are buying cameras of any kind.
So, as a priority, firmware adjustments should be made on Sony cameras that tend to cater to the more knowledgable photographer.
Marc
Firmare updates do help the small percentage of sony users that take advantage of them but the unfortunate fact is most sony users will not andsony knows that.
For exanple…both tamron and sigma are now lleaving image stabilization out of sony mount lenses.
This does not save them ANY money.
Sigma has been overwelmed by complaints and returns because sony users dont have the common sense to turn off the swith on one or the other.
Tamron refuses to …trust sony users…to turn off the switch.
Unfortanitljy very few users will actually benefit from firmware upgrades even if sony provides them.
+1 ! There is much truth in there.
You are so correct.
Unfortunately.
The new jpeg engine isn’t available as a firmware update for old cameras, but neither is it available within IDC when converting RAWs.
In fact IDC isn’t even available for the a7!! 🙁
From the UK support site, the only software listed is to control the camera remotely!!
If you download IDC independently, that hasn’t been updated since June 2012 – it will read a7 files but doesn’t include the new engine to handle them as well as the camera does.
STILL waiting for the a77. Come on Sony. I gave you my money. I supported you – now you support me!
How naive!
They know most consumers won’t even think about updating their cameras with firmware. What’s that?…is the answer most consumers would give. Moving on.
True, however it sounds like Sony is transitioning the a-mount more towards enthusiasts, prosumers and professionals.
Soccor-moms yes, but the Canon 7D update was huge and all over the media, as was the Sony A700 v4 update. There is an appetite for firmware updates for advanced amateur and pro model users, I think you underestimate it as does Sony.
I am very pleased with my A77, except for the out-of-the-box jpg image quality. My 5 year old (10MP) Canon 40D is easily outperforming it in that respect (only). But the Sony has so many wonderful new features which I use quite often. Wait and see…
The A77 is dead to Sony, no chance of firmware updates.
If Sony wants to build à long relationship with their clients, than they would take updates mainstream. Als owner you feel that buying a product is more than give money. This canconly works positive to new customers. Will Sony sell less camera’s if they don’t update? I think no. It’s About taking your clients serious. Penny wise, pounds foolish. What a positive signal to users can do, an oppertunity!
that exactly why I switch form sony to fuji!
Fuji cameras are harmonious,
I’m feel as serious customer,
the lenses are fantastic for the price
I switched from Fuji back to Sony. Fuji needs firmware updates just to get their cameras up to par.
Short memories.
When a77 first came out sony released firmware to fix a overheating issue.
The overwhelming sar response was sony should wait to get it right and not fix it later with firmware.
Be carefull what you wish for.
The A77 fixes were needed just to get the camera working, you were lucky if your camera wasn’t a brick out of the box! There is a huge difference between that and incremental fixes that add features.
You bought the a77 with an advertised set of features.
The jpg engine however falls somewhere in between the two extremes of fixing a defect to make the product functional and adding new features that were never intended to be available for this camera.
You obviously weren’t around when the A77 was released and DID NOT WORK.
That’s simply not true. There were a few isolated units like this, and if my memory is correct, Sony was pretty responsive and sent replacements. I pre-ordered mine, and got it as early as anyone in the US who didn’t use digital Rev, or something similar, and yes there were a couple of times it crashed and I had to remove the battery in the first 3 weeks of (very heavy) use, but it worked damn fine the rest of the time! And that issue was quickly resolved with firmware.
Sony should learn from Fuji how to make perfect white orbs.
Sorry, bad joke 😉
The goal is not to satisfy you, but to almost satisfy you.
That’s the game.
The differences are the differences.
If Sony would be like Fuji, then Fuji would be like Sony. No change.
Fuji fixed my X10 for free and it wasn’t a firmware update, it was an expensive (for them) recall and sensor change. Sony would have washed their hands of it and brought out a new model. That’s the difference between the two companies.
As a result I would buy another Fuji without hesitation.
I agree that Sony could do much better on their firmware updates. I’ve owned cameras from just about all manufacturers at one time or another and Sony’s were the last ones I got to. I’ve been disappointed that their updates seem below par compared to to others. And yes, Fuji is amazing. I owned an X100 and was delighted for the recent updates. It makes for good customer relationships. Yes, Sony products may be the best but if they really want to be number one in the market, they could make huge strides with more/better firmware updates and better customer service.
Firmware programming isn’t costly at all. It’s just giving improvements of newer cameras to older ones, but Sony decides people should buy new cameras for that. Once they did prove they’re capable of letting a camera technically improve a lot via Firmware Update, since the very first NEX-5 series made it up to version 05, but for Lens Compensation I should have bought the NEX-5N. Anyway I guess the more Sony gets accepted as a Camera maker for professionals with their new Full-E-Mount or the RX line the more they’ll learn how to keep these customers from feeling as buying from a gadgeteer…
Sony cameras have been the the most technically advanced and full featured cameras on the market for quite a while now. Sony cameras have also been one of the best in terms of not showing major functional problems right after launch which would require quickly fixing through FW, which is very good! Technology advances quite fast these days and new features/functions are invented every day. FW updates for fixing something that is not working right is a priority and must be issued promptly ( not much so Sony’s case, IMHO… ). On the other hand, FW updates for adding new functions, etc. should be part of Marketing/customer satisfaction and therefore made available as a function ( no pun ) of the market demand and/or competitive edge and can even be charged, like when you buy a more sofisticated radio/player for the car.
You lost me.
Sony’s plans for firmware upgrades is to put new firmware in a new camera. I can not and will not buy a new model every time it comes out. If they want to build any kind of brand loyalty with their users, they need to show that loyalty to those have invested in the brand.
A77 update JPEG.
That’s a laugh, not going to happen sony wants us to buy a new camera
Sony should fix the A7 internal sensor reflections ASAP
here is some example
http://www.dchome.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=1240247#lastpost
http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/comparisons/2013-12-leica-sony-canon/index.htm
http://www.omuser.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=221688&extra=page%3D1
What is an “internal sensor reflection”?
Everybody knows that Ken Rockwell is a joke.I can’t imagine there is a single serious photographer-or even an amateur!-that pays attention to all the crap he’s writing down
Best post of the year.
For the A7/A7R, can you please provide more video features?
Also, stop with the weird placement of the record button!
Or allow us to change the C1 function to start/stop video!
Imagine if Apple didn’t update their iPhone. Would people just accept that?
How many people would love if Sony allowed the updates over wifi on the camera without even connecting to the computer? How much positive press would give them? It just seems like a smart move. I already found a few bugs on the A7r – the most significant being that the Auto Exposure Lock does not work correctly. I don’t expect them to fix it unfortunately.
YES!!!!!!!!! With a WiFi enabled camera, FW updates should be delivered to the camera via the internet at the leisure of the camera owner.
I would be happy to pay for real firmware improvements. I believe Sony charged for the software / firmware upgrade to the fs100 or 700 that enabled 4K.
If Sony offered an upgrade for purchase for the a99 that enabled PAL frame rates, manual shutter speed with AF in video mode, ability to choose which card to save video files to when shooting jpeg/RAW sort or either higher bit rate video recording / RAW video output – I would pay a few hundred bucks for that upgrade.
there was a free firmware update for the FS100 to bring it up to date with the FS700 when it was released, but Sony is charging for the 4K compatibility for firmware updates to allow 4K recording to external devices (FS700 only).
being locked into NTCS on the A99 was the main reason I passed on this otherwise very appealing camera, would have been perfect for my type of shooting, loved the articulated lCD and EVF, but 50% of my video gigs require 25p
ntsc just for usa, the european model can switch pal/ntsc.
absolutely nonsense.
quote for christopher and all the video issues…please sony wake up!
Well.. with this shit A7 sony will wakeup Canon & Nikon. I just can’t wait to get back to Canon 🙂
I agree that FW updates are nice but when I buy any new electronic device (not just cameras), I browse multiple sources to make sure that all the functions, reliability etc. are provided by the device in its current form (or can be modified to the desired form by using software or hardware updates that are already available).
If you think that a vital function is missing, don’t buy the product. Once you’ve paid they won’t care about you anymore but if you don’t they might reconsider.
Firmware updates are required to fix the issues that should work out of the box. The A77 has bugs that I run into that are never going to get fixed because Sony have moved on to other models and forgotten their flagship APS-C SLT, just like they have already forgotten their flagship A99 full frame.
If you want a list, browse the forums.
‘Firmware updates are required to fix the issues that should work out of the box’
That’s why I said: don’t buy. But most people do anyways thinking ‘oh well, they’ll fix it via firmware’. As long as that kind of irrational behavior doesn’t change, Sony can happily continue selling unfinished products.
so you are saying that it is consumer fault to buy a Sony product that has issue in there product? Sony should hire you for PR.
Yes, it’s obviously the consumer’s fault. If everyone would boycott bad products, we wouldn’t be in this situation. If everyone would say ‘I won’t buy the camera X until issue Y has been resolved’, Sony would resolve it in an instant. It’s not only about technical stuff. The same thing applies to products of ethically questionable origin such as child labor, bad/hazardous working conditions, etc.
Instead people like you mindlessly buy the best, cheapest, newest, blabla product keeping the money flowing when it actually takes 3 minutes (maybe even less) on Google to get a good idea. And then you’re surprised and angry that nothing changes. Gimme a break.
What a silly converation this is! Sony has come out with two new firmwares for NEX7 in two years. Same as Canon for 5D.
If you compare with my home market computers you normally get firmware for errors? The update for operating systems you pay for.
Fujis wish you use its cameras a long time sounds nice but they are coming out with new gear all the time.
Phones are used 2 years. Computers 3-4 years. Cameras more years.
Sony is on the right way with cameras. I wish some more FE lenses and continue to develop A7-line.
Fuji will have problems with FF competition.
Don’t be fooled, Sony will ditch the A7 line when something new and shiny comes along!
Hello Sony Japan software engineers, can we please get a firmware update for a65/a77 users like:
-a resizable raw file in 6mp, 12mp n 24mp format
-an uncropped video mode if SteadyShot is turned off
-lens compensation: shading in raw
-lens compensation: distortion correction in raw
-lens compensation: Chromatic aberration in raw
-a direct lens support for Adobe Lightroom for all Sony/Zeiss A-mount lens. Canon/Nikon/Sigma/Tamron has a full list of lens support in LR so why can’t you?
I hope Sony doesn’t follow Fuji. I like features at launch and camera’s won’t break after a few years.
I’m sure that will come part-and-parcel when Sony launches their ‘Professional Services’ (for photographers). I think that’s expected in 2014, isn’t it?
Someone asked for Lens Compensation in Lightroom for Sony lenses?
It is THERE! Why dont you check first before writing?
I have used Lightroom 5 today with lens comp for my sony 10-18 and for 35/2.8. There are meny more lenses already. Many.
I dont see full list of A-Mount lenses here
http://helpx.adobe.com/x-productkb/multi/lens-profile-support-lightroom-4.html#main_List_of_supported_lenses
Anyway, IMHO that’d be Adobe’s problem, not Sony! I Sony was to “provide” that software function it should be open to any software, not only Adobes’s!
No I have never seen A77 even. I used Canon and Nikon then. Came in with NEX7 and A7r. Sony handled these at least as good as the big guys!
Hey admin
I can read all comments that is awaiting moderation? At least a bunch of them? I don’t mind but…….
I’m still waiting for improvement to the Auto ISO function on my RX100. It’s operation seems like a basic omission to me at least. (I still love the camera.) I agree that it would sway me away from Sony all other things being equal.
Sony has that habit just not only in camera fiels, but too evident in their much more focussed field -mobilephone. My Xperia S just year and half old. Between now and then sony has released about 20 new smartphones. Many even less than year old phones are not supported for upgrades. They are looking for an established brand name there. Almost has it like Xperia Z series like Galaxy S series. May be a strategy to make customers upgrade their phones rather than firmware. They are probably trying such strategy in Digital camera field too, i think…
When your corporate direction is to constantly flood the market with a new product every 90 days, your engineers and developers are far too busy supporting the new product development, and have no time to spare on enhancing current or prior products.
In that scenario, it’s not that consumers are beta testers. It’s that they are also are gamma and delta and epsilon and omega testers, cuz that’s all there is.
I kind of like Fuji’s stated approach, but it’s too soon to tell if it’s authentic. As far as I can see, Fuji is no slouch either in constantly introducing new products, some not quite ready for prime time. We’ll see if they are telling the truth two years from now. The proof will be no XE-3 for 2 or 3 years.
I don’t think whether or not they introduce an XE3 in the next 2 or 3 years has anything to do with this. It’s whether or not they are still updating the XE1, X100, X100S, Xpro 1 etc that will be proof. In some respects theya re already showing that they are serious by bringing capability introduced by the X100S to the X100 and by the XE2 to the XE1. It has absolutely nothing to do with introducing new models.
Sure it does. Model proliferation means their goal is to obsolete old models quickly.
Since Fuji is not really gaining more marketshare, nor gaining tons of new customers, it must rely on its existing customer base to stay solvent. This means product churn, as current customers are made to feel inadequate with the model they bought 14 months ago and must be induced to drop another %1000 on a new model with only very minor incremental features.
This is the approach of most makers of digital cameras. It certainly was not the approach of fine film camera makers, whose film models stayed around for years at a time
The backlash of this approach is already being felt by the camera makers. People can not afford constant new luxury toys when their previous consumer products are perfectly fine.
Stop pre-releasing flawed products- make sure they are actually ready for prime time before release-, and extend the life cycle of each product, and their credibility will build.
““We want you to use our camera longer and longer in your life.” implies there is no need to continually buy new cameras. Which means there is no need for Fuji to undergo the expense of constantly releasing new products if no one needs to buy them.
As I said, we’ll see if this strategy is true, because Fuji’s track record doesn’t show it. If not, this is just a self-serving statement to puff them up for releasing updates just as most camera makers do, but in many cases simply delivering enhancements that should have been part of the original product.
I can’t disagree more. Have you ever heard of market share expansion and new technology that didn’t exist at the time of previous camera releases. You clearly do not understand product life cycle and how to stay in business as a manufacturer.
Of course they will, it’s called progress!
I love my a900’s.
People here have no idea what you are talking about.
Keep updating and releasing new firmwares at all time is exactly like a student requesting to update his homework which was already submitted. It is a cheat! This should be blamed rather than praised. I do Hope Sony won’t follow this.
I agree with this.
Using the X-Pro1 and the NEX-7 as examples, the X-Pro1 received improvements to AF speed and accuracy, plus MF usability (including focus peaking) over several firmware updates. The NEX-7 shipped with decent AF and MF out of the box. Fuji also issued fixes to their hybrid viewfinder, something Sony avoided by just sticking with an EVF.
This is being construed as “Fuji is truly focused on improving their products over time” when I think some of these things are closer to “Fuji is finally fixing their broken products”.
I am being cynical here but the fact is that a lot of that effort of firmware engineering has gone towards fixing basic systems that should work out of the box – focusing and the viewfinder. Fuji should get credit for not abandoning their product but they should also get criticized properly for not getting the basics right before shipping the product.
Agree!
One has to wonder if anyone at Fuji even bothers to use their cameras before they are released to the market. The fans see it as continuous improvement, that’s one perspective … another is that they are not very good at writing camera firmware. I use an XPro1 and the only automation I currently use is exposure metering driving the shutter speed – everything else is turned off because all to often the automation features conflict with each other. Might as well use a Leica M.
So you would rather not have them add a new feature that users want and maybe nobody had even thought of when the camera was released? Or maybe the engineers found a way to arrange the code so that the camera performs better? Nobody is forcing you to upgrade your firmware if you don’t want enhancements. 😉
If nobody at Fuji thought that X-Pro1 users would want quick and reliable AF, then that’s all the more reason Sony should not emulate their approach.
Not that Sony should get a pass either – if Sony was surprised that NEX-7 users wanted a way to disable the movie record button, then they are already emulating Fuji’s approach too much for my liking.
We don’t live in a perfect world. yes they should put prototypes into the hands of real photographers shooting real things and then learn from them prior to release but there is always going to be something that comes up that could be better no matter how hard you try to get it perfect. At some point, you have to get a product out, you can’t wait forever tring to anticipate every possible thing because then youw ill never get the product out.
Why does Fuji need to talk to any photographers at all to figure out that focusing and composition are important to their camera customers? At least with the movie record button on the NEX-7, Sony can say that they got the basics right on paper but didn’t do enough field testing (not that this is acceptable; it shouldn’t be).
I think Fuji should get credit for not abandoning its customers but let’s not whitewash this. “Ship now, fix later” is not a standard others should be striving for.
+100
Absolutely agree! All of camera manufacturers (I.e. Fuji, Sony, Nikon, ….) must complete and finish their firmwares at their factories rather than release products, and let us use their products.
WE ARE USERS, NOT TESTERS!
Still kills me that the RX100 doesn’t allow user configurable shutter speed when using auto ISO… Defaulting to 1/30 in A mode (when wide) makes it terrible as family point and shoot – a lot of blurry photos of kids. And S mode is no better as it then tries to use f1.8 which isn’t great quality.
Boggles my mind that most reviewa didn’t cover that.
Having a user configurable min shutter speed in auto ISO would make an immense difference!
(As well as auto ISO in M mode)
That is the feature I miss in Sony after I moved from Nikon, such simple thing , if I’m not mistaken even Canon 5d Mark II didn’t have this …I am amazed that when they make the camera they don’t look at essential things that need to be in there from day 1.
Better shoot in Manual mode! I use it all the time, and in macro shots it’s the rule for me. The great EVF with constant LV plus peaking focus helps a lot on that.
Two probs with M mode – it’s obviously a bit slower than using A or S mode if chasing kids around as lighting can change etc.. And most importantly, it’s a no go for the wife 🙂
(imo) as an electronic company, Sony will update function with new body release to push consumer to upgrade camera body as often as possible.
yes,i need new firmware not new camera.
Two words – Open Source.
Smart people will figure out what is needed and fill the void left by Sony.
I own 5 (working) Sony camera bodies which include the A900 and A99 full frame bodies. I too am very disappointed in slow pace of firmware updates. I have been approached by Nikon to become a brand ambassador and they are willing to take my Sony equipment and replace with equivalent Nikon equipment (over $40000 value). I am now seriously considering this but would rather stay with Sony if only they can sort out some of the firmware issues.
You really can’t blame Sony because they just don’t have the people or the capacity to understand the concept of customer service.
Ricoh were the original company to offer feature enhancing firmware upgrades and continue too. Fuji learned the value in that, good for them.
Sony will never learn. They are as stubborn (collectively) as an anvil with earplugs in.
Bill
I love my A65, it’s my 4th Sony DSLR, but I would really appreciate a meaningful firmware update
Def aint happening
“keep releasing good firmwares” ??? More like start releasing any firmware updates
Fuji has to start making cameras that don’t need so many firmware updates!
*COUGH* white orbs *COUGH*
hahaha ok ok but this was sensor issue with one fuji camera(x10) and it was sensor related so it has nothing to do with FW upgrade (fuji replaced sensors free of charge). But you have half right Fuji add some things (like faster AF algoritms) that should be in camera for beginning but..kudos for them for keep improuving ther even “old” already replaced models, also their add some exstra stuff for usability not only to correct malfunctions so…win-win:)
This is an important POST , that deserves attention.
and I am glad SAR posted this.
Goes beyond Rumors , and is something that just might HELP Sony Shooters. Past and New.
The only thing that “Santa Sony” brought owners of A77 and A99 cameras was a big jar of vaseline!
I wonder if there is some way to form a “collective” voice to get relevant and responsible owner messages to the Sony powers that be?
For example, I am concerned that Sony continues to connect the EVF and LCD review … so to maintain a constant live view in the EVF, you have to turn off the LCD review … which forces you to press the review button every time you want to glance at the LCD . This is no small issue for many photographers used to OVF and instant LCD review when in the heat of shooting.
Leica has managed to separate the two with their X Cameras, so it is possible.
I had hoped that the A7/A7R would correct this, but it did not.
– Marc