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The A7s is here and it’s an amazing camera for both video and still photographers! You can read the full details at Sony US (Click here). The only bad news is that it doesn’t record 4K on SD card. You will have to use an external recorder. But for the rest this is an amazing camera. It has ISO up to 409600! The best dynamic range and color fidelity of any Full Frame Sensor yet.
A7s sites in different languages at Sony US, DE, UK, ES, FR, IT, NL, SE, FI, PL. The camera is listed at BHphoto but with no price or preorder option.
A7s characteristics
ISO 50-409600
extreme high dynamic range and color fidelity (So Sony says without to share numbers yet)
4K recording with no pixel binning
4K recording on external records only (internal recording only Full HD)
4:2:2 color sampling with external recorder
The “S” stays for “sensivity
Price will be announced later and release in “Summer”. Some other sites said price should be $1,699. But take this with a huge grain of salt!
Full press text follows on bottom of this post
Reviews, Image and video samples:
First shooting review at Fstopacademy.
Full A7s details and image samples disclosed at Sony US (Click here).
A7s Video release:
Surprise:
Sony also announced the Power Zoom 28-135mm f/4.0 development.
Press text:
Dpreview, Sony A7s PDF file, Sony press center, Photographyblog, DSLRmagazine, Lemoundedelaphoto, Imaging Resource, Quesabesde.
Official Sony Press release and A7s specs:
- Wide ISO sensitivity setting from 50 to 409600 and unprecedented dynamic range
- World’s first full-frame sensor capable of full pixel read-out without pixel binning process for movie and 4K (QFHD: 3840 x 2160) HDMI video output
- Professional video functions including XAVC S Full HD recording at 50Mbps, time code and optional XLR audio inputs
- High ISO sensitivity range allows faster shutter speeds during low light shooting
- α Mount System compatible with a wide range of high quality lenses, including power zoom lens ideal for movie shooting
- Improved Fast Intelligent AF performance in light as low as EV-4
- Ultra compact, light-weight body for comfortable pro-style operation
From starry night-time skies to atmospheric, candle-lit interiors: there’s now a camera that opens up extraordinary creative possibilities for capturing flawless, emotionally engaging movie footage and professional-quality still images.
Joining the acclaimed α7 and α7R – the world’s smallest full-frame interchangeable lens cameras – the α7S from Sony puts extraordinary sensitivity, low noise and spectacular 4K (QFHD: 3840×2160) image quality into the hands of serious photographers and videographers.
Equally suitable for still photography and cost-conscious movie production, the α7S delivers dramatic artistic possibilities in the smallest body of any full-frame interchangeable-lens digital camera in the world.
Key to the extraordinary sensitivity of the α7S is a specially developed new full-frame 35mm Exmor CMOS image sensor.
With a 12.2 effective megapixel count the size of each individual photoreceptive site is significantly boosted to increase their light-gathering power. Coupled with the camera’s powerful BIONZ X processing engine, this reduces image noise while increasing effective sensitivity range of the α7S to ISO 50 – ISO 409600 in expanded mode (ISO 200 – 409600 for movies).
This unrivalled sensitivity and ultra-low noise floor allows the α7S to capture beautiful images in low light conditions where a lengthy exposure would normally be needed. Thanks to the camera’s huge sensitivity, it’s possible to shoot crisp, low-noise stills and video using faster shutter speeds. Its immense dynamic range is also ideal for high-contrast scenes, effortlessly handling extreme highlights and rich, deep blacks in the same frame.
Because of the image sensor’s extraordinary sensitivity, the amount of light it can collect is dramatically increased compared with conventional cameras. The newly developed image sensor provides photographers/videographers with high dynamic range in all conditions from extremely low light to bright sunlight.
Using data read-out from every single pixel of the 35mm full-frame sensor (24p and 25p), 4K images created by the α7S are impressively detailed, with outstandingly rich colours and life-like textures in every frame. Refined by the BIONZ X processor, the high-speed data stream allows the α7S to output video at 4K resolution from the HDMI connector with 4:2:2 colour sampling, for recording onto an external storage device or viewing on a compatible monitor.
Thanks to the full pixel read-out from the whole of the 35mm full-frame sensor, there’s a notable absence of undesirable aliasing (moiré) effects and ‘jaggies’ that betray lower-resolution video. Stunningly clear images can be recorded on a memory card in Full HD quality with XAVC S[5] recording format at the 50Mbps data rate that’s highly regarded by professional videographers.
In APS-C crop mode, the α7S supports high frame rate shooting at 120fps or 100fps with HD resolution (1280 x 720 pixels). The 120fps footage can be played back at 24p for a 5x slow-motion effect – ideal for seeing every detail of sports action or the balletic grace of a dancer.
There’s a wealth of other specialist functions to please professional videographers such as Picture Profile™ for wide ranging visual expression and S-Log2 gamma. Time code/user bit functions allow pro-style editing workflow, while an optional XLR Adaptor Microphone Kit supports high-quality audio acquisition.
As already proven on the α7R, high-speed, high-precision Fast Intelligent AF has been further improved to fully exploit the new camera’s extraordinary low-light performance as low as EV-4. Other features familiar to α7 users include a high-contrast XGA OLED Tru-Finder, Wi-Fi/NFC connectivity and compatibility with the growing range of downloadable PlayMemories Camera Apps.
There’s a growing range of α lenses to take full advantage of the camera’s near-limitless creative potential. Currently under development, a brand-new full frame E-mount power zoom 28-135mm, F4 lens appeals to quality-conscious movie-makers. In addition, Sony is collaboratively working with third parties to support pro-quality 4K video workflow. A new XLR adaptor kit with a direct attachment mechanism is also under development.
The new α7S full-frame interchangeable lens digital camera from Sony will be available in Europe in summer 2014.
Key specifications
General Lens mount α E-mount Image sensor Type 35mm full frame (35.6 x 23.8mm), Exmor CMOS sensor Number of pixels (effective) Approx. 12.2 megapixels Recording system (still images) Recording format JPEG (DCF Ver. 2.0, Exif Ver. 2.3, MPF baseline compliant), RAW (Sony ARW 2.3 format) RAW output 14 bit Recording system (movies) Recording format XAVC S / AVCHD format Ver. 2.0 compliant / MP4 Video compression XAVC S: MPEG-4 AVC/H.264 AVCHD: MPEG-4 AVC/H.264 MP4: MPEG-4 AVC/H.264 Audio recording format XAVC S: LPCM, 2ch AVCHD: Dolby Digital (AC-3), 2ch, Dolby Digital Stereo Creator MP4: MPEG-4 AAC-LC, 2ch Image size (pixels) 1080 60i compatible device XAVC S: 1920 x 1080 (60p/50Mbps, 30p/50Mbps, 24p/50Mbps), 1280 x 720 (120p/50Mbps) AVCHD: 1920 x 1080 (60p/28Mbps/PS, 60i/24Mbps/FX, 60i/17Mbps/FH, 24p/24Mbps/FX, 24p/17Mbps/FH) MP4: 1440 x 1080 (30fps/12Mbps), 640 x 480 (30fps/3Mbps) 1080 50i compatible device XAVC S: 1920 x 1080 (50p/50Mbps, 25p/50Mbps, 24p/50Mbps), 1280 x 720 (100p/50Mbps) AVCHD: 1920 x 1080 (50p/28Mbps/PS, 50i/24Mbps/FX, 50i/17Mbps/FH, 25p/24Mbps/FX, 25p/17Mbps/FH) MP4: 1440 x 1080 (25fps/12Mbps), 640 x 480 (25fps/3Mbps) Movie functions Audio Level Display, Audio Rec Level, Auto Slow Shutter, HDMI info. Display (On/Off selectable), Time Code/User Bit, Clean HDMI output for 4K, Picture Profile, Creative Style, Picture Effect, Rec Control, Dual Video Rec, Marker Setting Picture Profile Yes (Off / PP1-PP7) Parameters: Black level, Gamma (Movie, Still, Cine1-4, ITU709, ITU709 [800%], S-Log2), Black Gamma, Knee, Colour Mode, Colour Level, Colour Phase, Colour Depth, Detail, Copy, Reset Clean HDMI output Clean HDMI output 1080 60i compatible device 3840 × 2160(30p/24p) / 1920 × 1080(60p/24p) / 1920 × 1080(60i),YCbCr 4:2:2 8bit/ RGB 8bit 1080 50i compatible device 3840 × 2160(25p) / 1920 × 1080(50p) / 1920 × 1080(50i),YCbCr 4:2:2 8bit/ RGB 8bit Media Media Memory Stick PRO Duo, Memory Stick PRO-HG Duo, Memory Stick XC-HG Duo, SD memory card, SDHC memory card (UHS-I compliant), SDXC memory card (UHS-I compliant) Focus system Type Contrast-detection AF` Focus point 25 points Sensitivity range EV -4 to EV 20 (at ISO 100 equivalent with F2.0 lens attached) Exposure control Metering type 1200-zone evaluative metering ISO sensitivity (Recommended Exposure Index) Still images: ISO 100-102400, Movies: ISO 200-102400 equivalent (both expandable to 409600) Viewfinder Type XGA OLED, 1.3cm (0.5 type) electronic viewfinder (colour) Total no. of dots 2,359,296 dots Field coverage 100% Magnification Approx. 0.71x (with 50mm lens at infinity, -1m-1) LCD screen Type 7.5cm (3.0 type) TFT drive Total number of dots 921,600 dots Adjustable angle Up approx. 90 degrees, down approx. 45 degrees Other features ` Camera Apps Yes Interface Wireless LAN (built-in) Wi-Fi Compatible, IEEE802.11b/g/n (2.4GHz band)*1
Playback of still images and movies on smartphones, PCs and TVsNFC™ Yes (NFC Forum Type 3 Tag compatible, One-touch remote, One-touch sharing) Multi Interface Shoe Yes HD output HDMI micro connector (Type-D), BRAVIA Sync (link menu), PhotoTV HD, 4K still image playback Shutter Type Electronically controlled, vertical-traverse, focal-plane type Shutter speed Still images: 1/8000 to 30 sec., Bulb
Movies: 1/8000 to 1/4 (1/3 step), Up to 1/60 in AUTO mode (up to 1/30 in Auto Slow Shutter mode)Electronic front curtain shutter Yes, On/Off Power Battery Rechargeable battery pack NP-FW50 Still images Approx. 320 shots (viewfinder) / approx. 380 shots (LCD screen) (CIPA standard) Movies Actual*2: Approx. 55 min with viewfinder, approx. 60 min with LCD screen (CIPA standard)
Continuous*3: Approx. 90 min with viewfinder, approx. 90 min with LCD screen (CIPA standard)External power AC Adaptor AC-PW20 (optional) Weight With battery andMemory Stick PRO Duo Approx. 489g (approx. 1 lb 1.2 oz) Body only Approx. 446g (approx. 15.7 oz) Dimensions W x H x D (excluding protrusions) Approx. 126.9 x 94.4 x 48.2mm (approx. 5 x 3 3/4 x 1 15/16 in.) Operating temperature Range 32°-104°F / 0-40°C Specifications and features are based on information available at the time of printing and are subject to change without notice. *1 Configuration method/Access method: WPS or manually/infrastructure mode. When connecting to smartphones, the camera can always work as a base without a wireless access point. (Security: WEP/WPA-PSK/WPA2-PSK) *2 Indicated recording time is defined by repeating the following cycle: Power on, start recording, zoom, stand-by and power off. *3 Indicated recording time is defined by repeating the following cycle: Pressing the MOVIE button. No other operations such as zoom are performed.
0 Responses
That’s f4 not f2. BIG difference.
Secret Handshake reborn!
Yeap, We dream about 28-135mm f/2.0, but we don’t get it. 🙁
Because it would be large and expensive and though it will be very useful, the f4 lens will be much more affordable. It always amazes me how many people here want all the esoteric stuff and then want to pay a pittance for it.
lens looks huge
The secret handshake is back!
No pixel skipping, not binning! Full readout means all pixels are read, lines of pixels aren’t dropped. Pixel binning is something completely different where 2 or more pixels are combined to make a single pixel. And it’s an f/4 lens.
Says no pixel binning:
http://www.sony.net/Products/di/en-us/products/vq5f/index.html
So.. We can’t shoot 4K directly from the camera? Only can do it with an HDMI output!! What a let down honestly.
Do the math on space required per minute, then factor in SD card cost and heat, and what they did makes sense. It probably also works out a bit cheaper. Anyone who wants to shoot 4k seriously would be recording externally anyway. If they only offered a limited SD recording option, everyone would be complaining they didn’t offer an external option, calling it half arsed.
Sony couldnt satisfy everyone regardless of what they did. Welcome to the internet.
Just be thankful they didn’t make some new card format that was required for 4k.
Totally make sense.. However, they could do it at least with a limited SD card recording (+ the external recording), Sony never stopped innovating and I am pretty sure that they will do it in the future.
++ For your reply
Amazing low light specs, too bad it can’t record 4K onto an SD card. It should be great for recording starlapses or as a video head for a cinema rig with $3K worth of recording equipment attached.
Not if it cannot focus well in low light as well.
contrast af und 4k only external hahhahahhahaha….
So it’s at the top of the Alpha line? Sounds expensive!
Also the graphic says A (alpha mount) but shown are E mount, confusing?
All is Alpha Mount, A and E are now subsets, E is referred to as the open mount as well. Camera is for sure E-mount
“a” symbol mount includes A Mount & E Mount.
+1
Maybe in Sony-speak A-mount and E-Mount are both “Alpha-mount”????????
It’s a video camera. I don’t take videos, so I’m not very interested.
I’m afraid if you read well the slide as well as we have heard, it’s only 4K via HDMI to external recorder, komma, and only Full HD without pixel binning internally.
Interested. Should be a good b-cam for a higher end. And a good cam in its own right. Base iso 200 in video is interesting.
Really wish they released more info
WIth this New A7s Sony si leading the way!!!
Codec is meh but S-Log2 is nice to have 😀
28-135, very interesting range, but what does “under development” mean, see it in 2 months, two years, or is it a concept. F4 is fine for me as long as it also is image stabilized. Not sure i like the “power zoom” which is one more motor to use up battery power.
Would love to see a 24-135 f4 professional grade lens.
Unbelievable , no internal recording! So it will be the GH4 for me!
Me too
Me too!
And NO ALL-I
Btw, they seem proud of Long-GOP and 50Mbps:
“The high-bit-rate XAVC S format is provided for
serious videographers. Available for the first time in an α camera, it
enables Full HD image recording at 50Mbps for extremely high-quality
expression and minimal noise. It also employs the Long GOP (Group of
Pictures) data compression method to realize efficient movie recording.”
XAVC S is not bad. It’s a new, modern, and efficient codec that doesn’t succumb to a lot of the other problems previous low-bitrate codecs had.
It amuse me when a person compare a Full Frame camera with Micro Four Thirds!
no pdaf only contrast detect
where is the wide / fast prime lenses???
No PDAF. What a waste, given that high sensitivity.
No professional level video relies on anything except manual focus
For video yes but it could double well as a sports cam (and they were actually showing sports photos so that’s probably Sony’s intention as well).
I was hoping for the perfect Sports/4K cam. So, I was hoping for PDAF as well, plus a high burst rate.
Me to 12mpix, with a high burst rate would have been awesome.
Now with the new A77ii coming out, APS-C is good but 24mpix will slow it down and kill high ISO damn I wish Sony could stick with a 16MP APS-C sensor or even better yet 12mp and have great high ISO for indoor sports
I completely agree. Sony had an amazing opportunity to make the perfect camera for everyone with their a7 series:
a7R: Pristine photo quality for any application
a7S: Great 4K/UHD for low-light video, and great for sports photographers
a7: Best of both worlds
Instead, the a7R has better video quality than the a7 because the a7 uses the same horrid sensor as the VG900/a99, and the a7S is only a camera for people who need extreme low-light video. There is no official info on burst rates, so maybe that will slightly redeem the a7S if it is high, but, still, a big all-around disappointment.
Well, with the LA-EA4, you have PDAF… (and the seems to be their strategy with the “Alpha mount” meme)
Amazing!. The only question in my mind is about global-shutter at video frame rates, and rolling shutter.
Still USB 2.0 interface?
Ok. 4K externally. Is there any existing recorder that can do it???
A few. Odessey 7Q is the cheapest
Same AF as A7r according to annoucement, so Admin you were wrong in your guess of A6000 AF system, it is not even like A7. Wishful thinking. Your instincts are wrong as usual, so please no more instincts, just go with solid sources instead. On the positive side -4EV is the lowest around (before Canon 6D was the lowest with -3 on the central point.) The question I have is, is -4 only on central point like 6D or on multiple points? This could make a difference.
I was wrong yes. Sorry 🙂
Next time SR5 rumors only 🙂
I was hoping for A6000 system as the sensor would have to have quick readout for 4K, but not to be. Still it does have EFCS so that is good, will have to wait a bit longer for ultimate sports cam.
Admin. Ignore people like this guy. This is a rumor site, and its yours. If he prefers to get info that’s strictly confirmed, let him wait until product is announce. I may not say so often, if at all, but I appreciate your efforts.
Dam it ……..No its a roumer site not sony fact site I enjoy speculation .
The Panasonic GX7 goes down to -4ev dor it’s AF system too.
Oh wow, I did not know! GX7? Any Olympuses?
constrast detection so all points probably will be -4ev
Most relevant is low light performance and higher bitrates for 1080p. 4K to external recorder allows for 4:2:2 uncompressed video out and lower costs, which many of you should like rather than complain. 4K on camera at high bitrates would probably require dual SD cards and a lot more heat, so would need larger body…etc. This sounds like a very good compromise.
GH4 can record 4K internally at 100Mbps on single SD card !
UHD via micro-hdmi for 8bit 4:2:2. It’s not 10bit sadly.
I don’t see how it is a good compromise because of the price of a 4k capable recorder.
Why did they stick crap 25 pt contrast auto focus in this thing?
only 2.5 fps, that sucks
Continuous shooting: Max. 2.5fps, Speed Priority Continuous shooting: Max. 5.0fps …
Dammm, this really not great, was hoping on 15+ …..
Yeah, this whole thing has been pretty anti-climactic. 8bit external, UHD and not 4K (again, external), and an “eh” focusing system. It’ll be good for low-light shooting. Also, I was hoping for some info on burst shooting for sports, but, for some reason, Sony spent about 5 seconds on the camera announcement. Also, because of the sub-par focusing system, even if the camera had a high burst rate it still wouldn’t be a good sports shooter.
My prediction: They dumbed this model down to protect their forthcoming 4K A-Mount camera, which will be priced around $4,000 and beat the 1DC to the ground, hopefully.
Don’t get your hopes up. More likely a fs100 will be the lowest end 4k internal cam
Look people….it’s “sensor size” that determines sensitivity. 36mp FF sensors are just as sensitive as 12mp FF sensors. Individual photosite micon size does not matter!
LOL how many people here used to believe that?
Not when it comes to video, where most DSLRs do line skipping
You also have to take into account sensor tech, and this is a new sensor. First order of effect on noise is sensor size, second is sensor tech, third is number of pixels
Actually it does. Compare the NEX 6 to the NEX 7. The added smaller photodiodes actually lowered high ISO performance. The rest of low light performance relies on the codec and in-camera processor’s ability to encode the image.
I guess we will wait for the release of the Sony A7X MKIV
By that time maybe Sony will have their act together
Assuming a reasonable price point, are you suggesting that some other company has a better camera for FF video? The sales numbers will prove you wrong.
It is amazing, then, how many good photographers and videographers actually use Sony equipment. Sometimes, waiting for perfection is counterproductive to actually doing anything.
-4 – +20 – what a dynamic range!
that’s not the dynamic range, it’s the focusing system sensitivity
So, there WAS a catch.
As I see it, Sony chose the A7 formfactor which was already a problem before, they had to choose a different and slower shutter so it could fit the camera. The smaller form factor is likely the reason why it doesn’t do 4K internally. If confirmed, of course so that possible rumor of high fps burst was not accurrate and for some off reason there is no mention of this camera burst more fps in the press release – maybe because it’s as slow as the A7/R?
It probably overheats if it was to do 4K internally, so it’s easier to just output a clean HDMI out rather than taking all that data and encoding it internally. Sony is not wrong per se, they are just no caring consumers for that, aiming higher since the higher crowd are willing to use an external recorder for it – which there aren’t many yet.
It’s a let down, clearly, with the 12MP it was possible that Sony would finally deliver it for consumers, great video and 4K in a FF sensor, but not exactly.
But as I take it against the 5D, it does a good job, it should dethrone the 5D as the low light king in video and the IQ should be better than the soft image from Canon, in that sense it may be a good camera but for the most part, if anyone thought this could threaten the GH4, it’s not a 4K threat.
The only area in which it may compete is for those that were thinking about using the GH4 with the YAGH interface most of the part, so depending on the price of accessories to make the A7s a more complete camera, it might be a comeptition for the GH4+YAGH combo, but at least you can unplug the YAGH in the GH4 is you want so, whereas with the A7s, you would lose 4K capabilities.
With Sony, you have choice. You can get the FDR-AX100/B for under 2k and provides a complete 4k package for advanced amateurs and semi pro use. The A7S is a full frame camera. And who knows what Sony will announce on the APS-C space. The race has just began. When the equipment is out (neither the A7S or the GH4 is actually available), we’ll see how these cameras actually perform. The sensor technology that Sony is coming up with is kind of amazing. It is going to be exciting times for a lot of people out there. Choice is good.
You can’t really compare the AX100 against the GH4, have you seen the rolling shutter test? GH4’s beta firmware footage are already out there with lots of tests from grading, lowlight, side by side, etc.
And Sony won’t put 4K in a Alpha camera if not starting for the top, just like they did so I don’t really expect internal 4K video recording from a Alpha camera before a FS one. The A77 successor has a chance of having it, but I hardly think Sony would put a A77 with 4K capability when their video Alpha Flagship in the A7s doesn’t do it.
So it’s not really “choice” the right word for it, is quite the opposite, the lack of it. As I said, it has a lot of merits and it should be a great camera and compete well against the 5D and for people willing to use external recorders – which they have not specified how yet as there are not many HDMI 4K recorders now – this is a great one, it’s just not for consumers like the GH4 is.
I am not comparing the GH4 with the AX100. I am saying that Sony is coming up with a complete line of cameras – from the AX100 to the F65 that is capable of 4K. They have yet to introduce their APS-C 4K model, as well as the A-mount camera that will support 4K. It’s going to be a great time for people, who will have some choices in the coming months/years.
Yeah but what I’m debating is that there are not really quality 4K options for consumers by Sony and at least the GH4 is that option. And as I said, if a APS-C camera is to get 4K, it will probably be a FS camera, I hardly think that an Alpha camera will get internal 4K sooner than a FS camera if the A7s itself can’t do it, it would make sense and it wouldn’t be very Sony of them.
Actually, Sony was instrumental in pushing 1080p HD in DSLRs for consumers. And this is a perfect camera to help push 4K to the masses.
Think about it, Sony already has professional 4K cinema camcorders already available, so this is just another gimmick camera for consumers, enthusiasts and “pro-sumers”. Personally, I will be getting the GH4, but this still is a great camera for the masses.
Of course, some people may actually use this for stills. I hope the image quality is as great as “implied.”
Yeah, me too.
I never said it wasn’t good but first, a camera that is likely to cost more than $3K it’s not aimed at the masses, so it can’t really push 4K for the masses even more if you need a 4K HDMI recorder which is not something cheap and if there are any. I can’t recall a 4K HDMI recorder and if true they should be announced soon, possibly at NAB itself but again, it won’t be cheap.
The world’s first hand held full frame 4K camera under $3k is quite a step. This is a camera for the masses, because based on the specs it’s not a professional camera. IMO it’s a “pro-sumer” camera.
How is this a perfect camera to push 4k to the masses? The masses don’t use external 4k recorders.
Well I say that because based on the specs this is most certainly not a professional camera. Sony already has several professional 4K cinema cameras for over $15K. However, there is currently there is no hand held, full frame, 4K camera under $2K on the market. This is for the consumers, not professionals.
But I will also add this is another typical Sony gimmick product. Like the A7 and A7r were. Groundbreaking products, however the products themselves always fall quite a few steps short of practical and innovative.
Sony has always been instrumental in pushing popular products from cameras, televisions, to multimedia devices and pushes the envelope with groundbreaking products virtually every 6 to 10 months. However, not all their products are successful, hence why they are broke quite often. All industries will benefit from Sony advertising and pushing 4K to consumers.
The sensor could be used in the rumored FZ-mount alpha camera (with a-mount adaptor) with internal 4k shown at last year’s NAB. Unfortunately, if this camera is still proceeding then it seems like it has been pushed to next year’s NAB in lieu of the a7s.
Yeah and the price point should be quite higher because that camera won’t be aimed at consumers, it looks like Sony’s version of Canon’s EOS-C line up something between the FS and the CineAlta. I think the A7s was under development but I don’t think it was quite ready for announcement and I think taht the GH4 made they do it at NAB. If not, why not full specs and price? The press release have lots of specs but it doesn’t look complete. So that’s my 2 cents.
GF4 does also not do it and you have to record externally. Then, where do you want to find sd cards that big, you need space for such videos. Maybe some day in near future, we will see 1 terrabyte Sd cards, actually it is possible, it stucks on the writing speed yet.
The GH4 records 4K and UHD internally into a SD Card, the A7s doesn’t, what are you talking about?
Another half-cooking camera, like (or even worst) than GH4 in some specifications. Sony likes doing half-cooking cameras, they are specialist on that.
Go to hell Sony and Panash1t, BMCC 4K is the only one middle well done product
People complained about GH4 that finaly have not so bad specs, 12fps rate, 96 fps in FHD and can record 4K internally at 100Mbps !
And a postage stamp size sensor.
I have underwater movies made with pro cameras from Sony, I have some made with APS-C, I have some made with Pana GF. You know what, if I show you all of them, you will never be able to tell me which one is taken with what camera. On the movie, you will not see the difference. IMAX giant HD cameras take amazing pictures, and that is the only cameras where you really see a difference in picture quality, their dynamic range is mind blowing. So, the Post stamp size sensor comment seems to me obsolete. Panasonic GF camera make absolutely top notch videos and I bet all you want that Pana will sell more GF4(s then Sony A7s units. Alone the lens range and offer you get for the 4/3 makes it the better choice.
I’m not so sure the differences are not noticeable, perhaps the haze and reflections in the water mask the differences. Anywhere else and especially in difficult lighting situations it would be quite obvious. The tiny sensor will never have that motion picture cinematic depth perception like a full frame camera.
and you and Dammm have small brain
Don’t get your panty’s in a bunch JF. If you don’t mind a camera with a toy sensor that’s just fine, most prefer a real full frame sensor. Perhaps they have a support group for chronic sensor envy sufferers. Join one today.
My Phone can be record 4K too. with small sensor. m4/3 is small sensor.
Oh good. They are developing a “new” XLR kit. Because the old one obviously sucked major balls… :-
Maybe it’ll have a built-in recording function too, similar to how the GH4’s YAGH works. In that case I could understand it. But, still, the GH4 plus YAGH interface seems much better comparatively.
Uh…have you used the Sony XLR-K1M and compared it what one must do to get XLR on other SLRs?
I own the XLR-K1M kit and it is vastly superior to using either a beachtek XLR adapter or an H4n (and then synching afterwards). The quality is great and the ability to provide phantom power to a mic via the hot shoe is fantastic.
There is room for improvement. It would be nice if a user could mount it directly to the hotshoe OR use a detachable MIS cable. It would also be nice if it had another Multi Interface Shoe on top of it rather than a cold shoe. However, it is still a great kit (the mic that comes with it is surprisingly good) and better than anything offered by Sony’s slr competitors.
agree, great addition and powered by the camera, doesn’t require a battery.
Sorry. I forgot to tag my post with sarcasm. Hoped it would be implied.
Damn internets…
Sometimes it’s tough to tell around here!
I would imagine the new one might be a smaller version for such a small camera.
I think … that S stands for “shit”
Oh dear. What an epic fail!
Is this a true a Mount or is it the FE mount from the a7/a7? If its an a mount, is the camera physically bigger than the others? Also in the press conference they mentioned “professional video features” any chance they put in an intervalometer?
Its a normal e-mount.
its the same physical size as the a7/a7r, just change in sensor and a S on the body
and yes, you can put an intervalometer in for around $10 in the app store 😛
Too bad, A7s is so disappointing.
Prices from Dpreview: $1699.99 / £1299 (body only)
DPR: The company has also said it is developing a movie-focused 28-135mm F5
Powerzoom lens. Pricing has not yet been announced for either product.
f5?
Hasn’t been announced?
lol. Such fail.
25 contrast detection?
Why sony has always to do a fucking failure?
This camera had all to be the fucking ultra master camera and they let 25 contrast detection AF!
I’m gettintg tired sony…
contrast detect af 🙁
Haters gonna hate “extreme high dynamic range and color fidelity” is exactly what I’m looking for. Landscapes don’t need a super high resolution image as much as dynamic range and color definition. And I’m tired of lugging around and setting up and tearing down tripod every time I want a shot, or stopping down to f20+ to get a single shot exposure.
Sorry. You’re wrong. You don’t know what you want. I know what you want.
You only want two things for the rest of your life.
A large format view camera and a sh*t load of 4×5 slide film. Preferably that sweet, sweet Velvia.
Yes, a tripod is required, but you’re a smart kid. You’ll figure it out eventually. 😛
+10000000000000.
Sean, your still going to have to stop down this Sony to get the depth of field you need for Landscapes. Velvia is beautiful, but is awful for dynamic range. 4X5 prints are lovely if you can afford them and your back is strong to carry the gear. Wait until you carry a 4X5 camera to know what heavy truly means. Leaves look like just a blur in the wind when your shooting 4X5 at F22 and above- sloooowww.
The following will sound like heresy, but hear me out. Shoot landscapes with a SMALL sensor-ed camera that crunches the HDR for you. That way you; 1) Get the dept of field you want without dark apertures 2) Get the dynamic range you need 3) Are able to use a lightweight tripod. Sony has many in-camera HDR options in it’s line-up, although you can shoot automatically successive shots in RAW if you would rather merge them yourself in post. Can recommend the Tamrac Zipshot if you want a lightweight, hassle-free tripod.
Oh I have a lightweight tripod, it could probably hold an A7s if needed too. I also shoot raw exclusively, because frankly post process is half the fun, that and unless HDR very carefully I don’t like the results. Right now I have to stop down to f20 with my NEX to make it work, if I could stop down to say, f9 for most shots with the A7s then I’ll get a brighter, sharper image than what I have now even if it is a lower MP count. Besides, if the color is as good as they claim I’ll be happy with that as well.
Honestly if I could afford it I’d shoot with an Arri Allexa or Red Dragon. But this will at least be in a more reasonable price range.
Fyi, modern 4×5 field cameras are extremely light… close to dslr levels. I use one that is 1.4kg and it’s more than rigid enough to hold a 1.1kg lens. I often shoot it handheld to get more dynamic shots.
For DR, Provia 100F is pretty good. But if you’re shooting 4×5, the biggest benefits are in resolution (from size and movements).
Tip my hat to you genotypewrite, your keeping the analogue flame a-burning. If I had a darkroom and shot B&W, it would be cost effective. $tarted lusting after drum-scamming and that’s when I knew I had to get out. Never heard of anyone with a 4X5 hand-shooting, but I guess it could happen. Yes, a great thing about about Large Format is movements to get increased DOF, but Sony nor Minolta ever designed an A-mount lens with movements (AFAIK) like Canikon has.
Sean, you could shoot the RX100II at F/1.8 and have 20MPx instead of 12 and have awesome depth of field. But then you switched to talking about Video,. If video is your thing, get the Panny GH4 and get double the depth of field of Full-Frame for landscapes, get Leica-designed lenses with autofocus, and you don’t need an external recorder. Don’t see the need for 12MPx for landscape, since there should be enough light, unless you inside a forest..
Preferred DRO to HDR when shooting Sony JPG, but if you like processing yourself, most good cameras can do smaller spans of EV in RAW to keep the HRD look to a minimum. We all have seen overcooked HDR. My point was that you get the dynamic range of a FF sensor using HDR on a small-sensor-ed camera.
Oh there are heaps more people doing it:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/large_format_color/
There’s a big difference in quality between a drum scanner and a prosumer flatbed scanner like a Epson V700 upon first take. However, with good scanning technique, you can get the results close enough to drumscan quality the point that drumscanning becomes an ego thing more than anything… like getting a leica over a zeiss ikon 🙂
As for tilt shift lens options, the E mount has many via adapters. For A mount, I think Schneider makes their latest PC-TS ones, if you can cough up the cash 🙂 There’s also Samyang.
F/20… that’s effectively around 3.5-8 mega pixels. The a7s will definitely be enough for that.
Which camera do you use now to have such a lot of issues at those resolutions?
An original NEX. It’s solid enough sometimes, but others things get out of hand and I can’t even get the shot.
I still have my original Nex-5 around. Image quality is as expected when paired with good glass.
Using f/20 isn’t the best of techniques… to put it mildly. Small format lenses aren’t optimised for such small apertures and you will often see an increase of things like CA after a certain point. You can get heaps more in focus and a lot more resolution simply by getting a Samyang 24/3.5 tilt shift.
once again , there is no perfect camera
there is no way they will put this sensor in the a99 successor because photographers need the extra megapixels so i think we have no choice other than buy two cameras !
this is insanely awesome! picture profile and Slog2 in a camera like this?!?! and that iso sounds/looks pretty impressive so far. I’m hoping it is under $4,000
ACcording to specs above it will cost $1700
I hope so, but I would say that the above specs say $3k.
The only big difference with the A7 and A7r is the sensor, so assuming production costs for the sensors are roughly equal, which they should be the camera cost should be roughly equal. The A7s might even have a cheaper sensor to make, more now because it is new but not long term. No internal 4K, recording, similar processing chips, no big fps rating so no giant buffer required. $1700 sounds about right. The new 28-135 f/4 lens looks like it will be expensive.
I hope you’re right, my only hesitation is that Sony may want to price it higher because of cannibalism (of their higher end video options).
Did you see the presentation? It’s above both the A7 and A7R, it will cost more, it’s likely to cost $3K+, think of it as a 5D competitor.
Its not above its a 4kx3k MP chip (see thats how you get 12mp) That can only do hi bandwidth out via HDMI. So thats not a big deal in terms of the hardware that already exist in the camera. The sensor has huge pixels on a die they already have in production so its not even more expensive to make the chip since it probably on the same die. It will be $1700 and with my discount 50% of that. 😛
Interesting thing though, the A7 series cameras are modular. Was it something like 5 separate modules? So can we assume that the only new part is the A7s imaging module? Maybe that’ll be enough to keep the A7s price low? Maybe this is a brilliantly conceived cost cutting strategy by Sony.
Many people don’t get the main point of this camera release, it is more main on video, don’t say dissapointing by just see some bad side of a product, forever no one will ever be perfect. From me the biggest thing on this a7s so far are
1.first full frame able to read every pixel in video, it is 35mm so the depth of field is the best.
2. Lightweight good for using aerial+underwater
3. all profile pic that having in professional sony camcorder
4. iso performance still need see some real test later
5. 10bit? hope it is! this is one of the most important thing!
Price? no final confirmaion yet
Most people were hoping this is a camera for photog. this is the why people are complaining fps and AF.
Hope sony introduces a camera to challenge dslr in all aspects (FPS rate and AF under lowlight) soon, may it be A or E.
anyway this a7s is keep so silent and secret before. A-mount having a long time be very quiet, so will it be coming? and also having secret and surprise with big improvement? we can judge that in the next few month. If there is FZ/A-mount 4k coming soon, i believe that will be much more professional dslr style 4k camera compare to a7s. 10bit internal will be a big killer! slow motion at 1080p, and 4k internal.
The HDMI output is 8 bit 4:2:2
who told you that. see my below link for real user test it written 10bit
Clearly this camera is setup for video as its main capability and they photos second. Although, with a 12.2 mpix sensor and a price of just $1,699, I see the used market for the Nikon D3s as gone. Even some buyers considering a D4, D4s or Df would consider this an option just for the size and cost saving alone. If it had been a 16 mpix sensor (which it probably will be in the next 12 to 18 months) Nikon would be very worried.
For the wedding photographers yes, but no way for sports photographers.
To bad though that the new Zeiss 24-70/4 is not a very good lens, at least from the reviews I have read. Though maybe on a 12mp FF sensor, not so demanding.
For a wedding photographer, purchasing 2 of these may not be all that bad? Who knows, I don’t see many pros shooting Sony anyways.
The Af of D3s will smoke the A7 and any Sony camera for some time to come. 400,000 ISO is nice, but contrast detect in the dark has always been a fail. I just don’t see how this camera can perform well for anyone but dedicated wedding photographers and event videographers, who know Sony’s peaking abilities, and who use manual focus lenses.
dam 1699 dollars… I was expecting this to be more then 2000$.. really agressive pricing
If you need insane low-light video quality (watch the first video above) and have no problem rigging the little a7S up, then this camera is for you.
I m confused. He spoke of the alpha mount. So, meaning E-mount I guess? But only full frame E-mount lenses?
Alpha Mount = A-Mount + E-Mount
Where is the $1,699 price coming from? Is that reported officially somewhere or is that the rumored price?
Yeah, I’m wondering the same thing too. I see it nowhere on Sony marketing, so I would have to guess it is simply speculation.
Yeah pretty disappointed with the lack of 4k internal, for a company they boast its 4k strength they can’t even compete on the scale of the GH4 and Black Magic, the A7s can clearly do 4k internal Sony is just holding it back to promote their more expensive cameras
Are you sure that they can do 4K internally without overheating.. I doubt that you are correct.
No it won’t overheat because XAVC-S is heavily compressed, look at Sony’s compact 4K camcorders they care tiny and there is no issue with heating.
You are forgetting that the big sensor alone throws off much more heat than cameras with small sensors.
but then again, the sensor produces the same heat wether you record internally or externally…
GH4 has a micro 4/3’s sensor so it will be a lot less to process than the full frame a7s. As for the Black Magic 4k it records directly to Solid State drives, not SD cards. It makes sense that the a7s records 4k externally only, SD cards are not meant to handle 4k full frame data. Even the fs700 can’t record 4k to SD cards. It makes sense, we just don’t like it. (but i love the idea of 4k full frame out of a camera like this!)
Thank you for the dose of common sense– you are one of the few on here with a little perspective and intuition. Sony may have just killed off their $4,000 FS-100 and $8,000 FS-700 with this camera, so what more did people want? It seems they wanted Everything*.
*Priced at $999 or less.
it won’t kill fs700, depend on user need. i just bought one with odyssey 7q recorder, no camera can beat it in overall performance and price so far. But if we look at 1080p, size, 10bit max externally, price, then a7s might be killer, need wait official release and more real test to judge.
+1
+2
I’m not so sure that there is less to process, but certainly the FF sensor itself throws off a good bit of heat vs. a small sensor.
that is true! What do you think is holding back the fs700 (which has a smaller sensor than the a7s) from recording 4k directly to SD cards?
The processing has to do with data not sensor size, 16MP is more than 12MP. The A7s doesn’t have 4K internally most likely because of the A7 form factor, Had Sony opted for a camera that had more space for heat dissipation, it would be able to record 4K internally, Sony just chose not to.
12mp files to a uhs-ii card could have been possible.
Andrea, do you feel that this is the 4K camera that you were publishing rumors about over the last couple of months? Thus, no a-mount 4k camera is on the way in the immediate future (like the prototype from NAB 2013 with the FZ-mount + a-mount adapter).
+1
Is it???
this was the 4K camera yes. And it seeem the source was correct too. the camera isn’t ready yet and will be in Stores in late summer only.
Do you think the FZ / a-mount pro 4k camera has been cancelled?
that was something i was looking forward to 🙁
It’s really unsettling that they use “Alpha mount” and “Alpha system” to describe this camera.
This is just another NEX-video-something.
Waiting for the real Alpha camera…
well, i get the benefit of iso and so…
but if this “4k camera” only sends a signal in 4k resolution via hdmi,
why doesn’t the a7r ? the a7r has an hdmi port that is capable of displaying photos in 4k.
Surely the camera wouldn’t overheat if instead of full hd, 4k video was transfered, or would it?
do you guys think, that there might be a “4k-firmware-update” that would enable external 4k recording on the a7/a7r ?
or someone should develop a hack for recording 4k video (magic lantern).
i think its because it would take quite a bit of processing going from 24mpx/32mpx down to 4k resolution, then send the data across. The other solution which people do is pixel binning where they discard the extra megapixels (rather than smoothing it which requires more processing)
but i like this solution better! you get the advantages of higher ISO and more DR (supposedly) but at the same time it (is rumoured to) costs about the same/similar price to A7
You would not get the same quality due to throwing away lines, or pixel binning.
Thank you Andrea for the info, this is my dream camera (ISO 400k) which I thought I can never afford one.
I wish I had money, this camera is perfect for me
I’ll never buy Sony again. Sony left us in the dust with DSLR. Sony left us in the dust with SLT. A-mount is practically dead. Who knows whether E-mount will be dead in…two? three years max??
They make amazing tech, they have the best sensors in the world yet are incapable of making a serious, complete system. They had the opportunity with the DSLRs, if they continued with A-Mount and OVF, simply adding PDAF on sensor and a decent AF system. Make it simple! That’s what most users needed! But no, they went crazy and users are now totally lost in crazyness. They make no real cameras but technological demos, electronic gadgets.
jump to e-mount! come to the dark side!
Well, many of us have been telling people like you for several years that if you want a DSLR, go Canikon. They have the lens, accessories, service, and 3rd party support. Sony abandoning DSLR is no different from Samsung, Olympus, Leica, Zeiss, etc abandoning DSLRs. That game is a two man gun fight, and Sony is packing knives. Mirrorless is an area where Sony can have the throne all to itself, and the mirrorless competitions are fighting with sticks so Sony has a huge opportunity.
OVF and On Sensor PDAF is just nonsense because AF would only work in Liveview (the Canon 70D has to PDAF systems: one conventional and one OSPDAF)
My problem with Sony is that they do new high tech(nology) in kinda amateurish models and have no serious professional models with that technology: I want/need a professional body like the A99 and A mount but with the new sensor of the A7s and the OSPDAF of the A6000 because I’m shooting a lot of high class jazz concerts at sometimes dark venues. And I’m using 2.8 zooms at 2.8…4.0 because of DOF. And I want an EVF because of e.g. the possibility to view taken pictures and also having all menus in the EVF (without having people around me attracted by the bright display…)
If anyone is choosing A-mount DSLRs because they need a more professional body then they are just an amateur. A professional would buy the tools needed for his job. Canikon does that very, very well. If a person decides against a proven and universally supported system for some gadget feature, then that person is a joke of a professional and probably gets paid accordingly.
rrrrrowrrrr!!!
A lot of pros using Sony are reading this and laughing all the way to the bank. But they would surely pat you on the back of the head for trying.
No… it’s like buying a car from a reliable japanese maker vs. getting a Peugeot or something. Nothing wrong in going for the latter for whatever it has over the other cars but don’t whine about the challenge of maintaining one.
Well, it’s best to have the option for both OVF and a good useful live view, rather than giving only the latter, isn’t it? 70D is right on this way, it gives best of both worlds (of course it’s 1st gen OSPDAF but they’ll make it better no doubt). IF Sony wanted to compete against Canon and Nikon when entered the DSLR market (which was their main purpose, isn’t it?), that would have been a good approach. Same A-mount, keeping OVF but adding OSPDAF in a great live view.
Now, Sony is focused on technological demos camera after camera, but nothing indicates they want to build a full, stable system. Many users may not trust on Sony nor take them seriously. Of course Sony has enough money to throw at more and more new tech at a lightning fast rate, but…what purpose?
Another thing: they could have made an accesory EVF for the DSLR, or even an hybrid OVF/EVF. But they opted for a rupturist way. Well: time will tell if this works for Sony!
Hybrid EVF or optional EVF and no AF when using the EVF. Awesome… OSPDAF wasn’t ready yet when SLT was introduced, especially for larger sensors.
The 70D is Canon’s second generation OSPDAF. And still relatively slow.
No… read about it… Canon supposedly slowed it down because it was too fast.
Also you don’t need PDAF for fast AF… see what mFT guys are doing. PDAF is about smooth tracking.
Canon is doing what Sony is doing but with the entire sensor. I can’t see why that has be worse.
I read about it. In video, your comment is true (slowed down, makes sense), for stills it is not. There is no valid reason to slow it down for stills. The A6000 offers several speed options for video too.
And I didn’t say you need PDAF for fast AF, I just said the 70D LV PDAF is relatively slow (2 to 3 times slower than some of the other hybrid or CDAF systems, up to 4 times slower than the dedicated PDAF in SLT’s). I know PDAF has its main benefits for tracking.
It’s likely they optimised their lv AF for video because it’s a dslr and they’re Canon.
The Canon 80% is different to Sony’s 90%, because Canon can AF from any pixel (although only the center 80% is used like you said) but Sony can only use points set aside for AF. So, millions in the Canon vs. 179 in the a6000.
Technically Canon can use the entire sensor but AF will be accurate outside the 80% region only when the focal lengths go higher.
Why not go with CaNikon then? Nobody is preventing you! Just stop trolling.
Amen, brotha.
i dont think it is about trolling, i am a sony user, the a99 and the vg-30, and i love how sony innovates and give sooo many features for less price ! but in th past year or so , i think they r focusing toooo much on the e mount, and love for the a mount user!!
I agree. At the very least they owe it to a-mount customers to say either way what’s happening long term. If the a77ii is going to be their last hurrah and they’re not planning another FF a-mount (the recent rumours aren’t exactly optimistic), then we have some hard choices to make. 1 of them would be going e-mount, but considering how p!ssed people are likely to be, they’re going to need to do a lot of damage limitation. So far they’re avoiding stepping on the a-mount’s toes with lens selection, which implies they’re still planning on keeping the 2 systems separate, which is about my only cause for optimism…
yup since they mention a mount there in the conference, i guess they will keep it.,and if i have to move to e mount all the e mount glass is useless,so a mount adapters for me and my a mount glass. but i heard if i use the laea4 it will cancel out the on sensor af points on the a7r :(-
ps i have tried to put my frustration on this site, about how much it sucks that they don’t talk about a mount. and people just go crazy and jump at me, so thank u for not replying like an ass 😀 u r cool
No one did anyone favours so no one owes anyone anything.
If people went for A mount that didn’t have what they wanted, how can Sony be blamed? When Sony DSLR/SLT sales were becoming stagnant, Sony focused on something that actually sells… the E mount.
Sony made it clear they are working on A-mount products. I don’t trust companies but canon is the current leader and all they do is use old tech in there new cams. So the A-mount is not really due for anything new yet. It just appears that way because e-mount is getting so much attention at the moment. It is kinda like when a new baby come along and gets all the attention. I think with some patience we will see something good.
Go to Canon and wait 4 years for new products ….
…and save your money, and shoot beautiful pictures instead of wandering on rumor sites all day long for the next big thing.
Sony knew that the a-mount was flawed from the start because it was carried over from minolta. If sony hadnt done anything for A mount, it would have been long dead. Would you have been happier that way?
The e mount is the one they’re doing right, from the start.
I don’t see anything about burst mode ! how many fps ? is it in the specifications ? I think I’m getting old :/
5fps
Slightly disappointing it is not higher. Perhaps it is a limitation due to heat dissipation of the focal plane shutter.
Continuous shooting: Max. 2.5fps, Speed Priority Continuous shooting: Max. 5.0fps …
“Continuous shooting: Max. 2.5fps, Speed Priority Continuous shooting: Max. 5.0fps”
@SAR_Admin:disqus can you link where you saw the 1699$ price please
Dpreview.com had the info, but removed it now …
D:
Thy lost me at FPS af not so much so AF you can add the A to E mount adaptor and get phase detect and some fast sigmas on bord but even then 2.5 ……..what the hell ; (
So, after having seen Photo cameras that shoot video, we have now a video camera that shoots photos too. And, just as I said, we have a toy to make stop crying all those that dream of 500 000 ISO clean shots. For the rest, much wind and tiny bit of rain. Still no valuable NEX-7 replacement, still not new A-mount camera in APS-C and FF. For the normal user 12 mpix is juts ridiculous. This camera will be a great deal for video freaks and reporters who can now shoot just anywhere without flash and 12 mpix is plenty of it for a newspaper page shot anyway. The resolution is what our first D70 6 mpix sensor was, thus we do not await something better in IQ since there is no magic in this matter. Then, why only 25 point AF system, was it really so hard to include to this sensor the a6000 PDAF system and make is a real AF speed champ as well. And, why no silent electronic shutter, something that had made this camera the ideal reporter tool.
On the end we have again something that can satisfy few, but the majority looks in the empty hole, like so often with Sony. My point of view is, fortunately, not every one’s view, and the comments show it clearly, but for me this camera is totally useless. When Nikon created the DF, it had at least one major advantag, it looks hell of a good. This A7S looks as ugly as all A7 do.
actually it shoots “10 bit uncompressed to a 4k recorder”
source: http://www.fstopacademy.com/blog/sony-alpha-7s-first-hands-on-shooting-review/
8 bit 4:2:2 4K externally. GH4 does 10 bit external…
But the 4k pixels are almost 1/4th the size of the ones in the a7s. The noise levels would now be like in the stills world (close to 2 stops advantage for FF).
The A7s will still produce much better looking video, more cinematic
depth of field, sharper focus, more dynamic range and much less noise.
Mixed feelings – No internak 4k, but 4:2:2 HD… Sony introduces GH3 killer…But no GH4 (!) So disappointing (!)
can anybody tell about an HDMI 4k recorder??? where…??? when???
There are numerous on the market already that probably will work!
I was wrong. Maybe not so many. The Odyssey 7Q should work and Atamos released the Shogun.
theres several 3rd party companies that build those, some videos made for sony was using the blackmagic hdmi recorder, but theres others companies that build those, just google it : )
Blackmagic Design Ultra studio Pro or Atomos shogun, theres other brands out there probably.
but ultra studio is a deck recorder; I was’t clear, I meand portable recorder; the Atomos Samurai only be out near October 2014
Atomos Shogun. Sometimes between August – November?? Reportedly under $2K.
Umm… wow!
Think Sony just killed the GH4 😉
I really hope that new 28-135 power zoom will work with the FS700 this time around!
Any inside info on when that lens will be released, Andrea?
Almost , if only it had 4k internal even at 50mbps, it would kill the gh4
This obsession with killing off cameras from other manufacturers is a
recurring theme at SAR… so less choice is ultimately better for the
photography community? If it wasn’t for competition Sony wouldn’t even have doled out these meager scraps. Say it after me: “Monopolies are bad for the consumer.”
Well, I didn’t mean it like that. It was just tongue in cheek and more a statement of me being impressed by the A7s. I’m not in the market for any of them though. But this one just seems so vastly better (to me) than the GH4.
I have the FS700 and not in the market for a new camera. But VERY interested in the 28-135 power zoom lens. But I was also interested in the 18-105 power zoom which turned out to be incompatible with the FS700, so now I put my hopes to this new lens. Which looks like a really serious piece of gear, judging from that picture.
I think the Nikon Df may have just been de-throned as the king of low light.
Today’s latest is tomorrow’s history. No “King” will rule forever.
Not really. You need big ISO to shoot fast-moving subjects, and this camera only offers contrast AF.
To shoot static objects in low light, any modern camera will do fine.
So yes, A7s will probably have even better ISO than Nikon, but it is useless as a low light camera.
Well… getting PDAF is as simple as sticking an LA-EA4 on it (with some light loss, granted). Could still better the Df though, even with the adapter?
And once you down size the DF, it’ll gain some more.
The adapter has an SLT mirror, which takes away 1/3 light. So probably not.
you must know it, you tried it I suppose. Why should this not be a low light camera, high iso performance up to 409000 is for what then to your opinion?
Low light video shooting, apparently…
Won’t be useless to people who can more than point and shoot.
It is Sony Style -> give you shit* with cherry** on top 🙁
*shit:
– no internal 4K (loosing portability (!) – the key factor we expect form such a equipment)
– same low capacity battery as in previous A7 (you need extra bag for batteries)
– 50Mbits internaly but 8bit (what is the problem with 10bit, sony? Perfect green screen is a dream)
– Continuous shooting Max. 2.5fps (unbelievable…12Mpix and 2.5fps – are you playing with me, sony?)
– No latest and good AF technology like on A6000 (I don’t know what to say…)
**cherry:
– superb low light performance
OK, this is the future recorder: atomos Shogun http://www.eoshd.com/content/12540/announcing-atomos-shogun-first-4k-hdmi-recorder-compatible-sony-a7s
Cool!!! Good that it is option. I am photographer (right now). So these moment I don’t need 4K but I need ISO King!
Unless you’re shooting animals in the wild at night by moonlight, is it worth compromising having higher resolution as an option? If you resize a 36MP image down to around 10MP, it’ll be very close in noise and will match the actual resolution of the a7s.
Everyone here is spot on — this is a dumb camera. World’s smallest camera that does 4K, except you need to attach a monstrosity to it — monstrosity sold separately of course. Low light performance is a good thing, but ditch the worthless 4K and focus on things like AF speed and a proper flip/touch screen. Do something about the damn slow continuous slow shutter. Leave 4K to the pros — there’s no shame in admitting you are out of your depth, Sony.
Who is everyone?
The camera has logic in the line.
FF 4K
FF 36mp
FF 24mp
All on the most compact FF bodies out there where you can still use your current lenses fitted on your previous stills bodies.
What Panasonic did with the m4/3 series, Sony is doing with FF.
Even the internal 1080p may look great if you can choose another format for it that is not AVCHD. That’s already a win for many current a7 series owners.
Problem is that Sony demonstrably chose the wrong form factor for 4K. What’s wrong with AVCHD BTW?
What is the right form factor then? Same as a handycam? Same as a Panasonic GH?
AVCHD’s compression is long in the tooth. Impossible to freely grade or correct and motion often shows artifacts and mush since it has to keep its 24mbps for 24/25p and 28mbps for 50/60p ruining motion, shadow detail and grain structure in higher iso settings (when it turns into blocky coloured noise)
Thank you for the info on AVCHD. I didn’t like it because it was hard to work with but I didn’t know what the technological limitations where. The form factor is wrong because it is not self-sufficient. Instead you need to attach external hardware. Sony has ambition but failed to execute here.
Thing is, like the Canon C100/C300/1D C series, there is quite a market out there that is OK with the form factor (stills camera form factor)
For the other form factors, do not despair. Since the AX100 already exists, and as new FS cameras appear, the a7s will easily be seen as a GH4 option for many people and “the thing to go for” for those looking for a “compact, FF, 4k camera at an accessible price”
Sony makes some of the best cinema video cameras in the world. They have been the leading company in digital cinema cameras for decades. They make the sensor for the Arri Alexa. Your comment is out of its depth and sitting in ignorance.
On the one hand you criticize Sony for not offering internal 4k recording and in the same breath advise them to ditch 4k, which makes no sense whatsoever. But at least you offer the nugget of wisdom to add a touch screen, because “pros” really, really need a touch screen alright…
Personally, I love the 3 sensor “brain” strategy. I am already shooting with the A7 and A7r and can cover most photo assignments and I am very comfortable and love shooting additional video on photo shoots. I could pack all 3 bodies and a few lenses in my video pack 250, carry on, no back up headaches.
I think the strategy is genius!
Agreed.
This is just Sony doing what Panasonic has done with m4/3 but in FF. Sound enough.
Panasonic released a camera with 1/3rd its highest resolution sensor for low light and video?
3 bodies and a dozen batteries. 😉
lol, a dozen won’t do
At this rate, they will have more bodies than lenses
Wow! I have never heard that one before, you are SO clever and funny! You should go out and reward yourself for your titan level originality, you are a comic genius! Bravo! Bravo I say!
No – Bravia
That’s a real knee slapper KT, don’t quit your day job.
Suddenly it makes more senses than Nikon’s recent name designation. 7 nothing for normal photography, 7R(esolution) for high resolution photography, 7S(ensitive) for high ISO photography.
Yes! I do love this new strategy too! Pick whichever camera is right for you.
I guess Sony didn’t like RED taking the top spot at DxO.
This will score lower than the 36mp sensor(overall). High ISO king, maybe.
Impressive! 🙂
I can’t wait to use my f/0.95, f/1 and f/1.2 lenses on this. 🙂
The ultimate black cat in a coal mine photoshoot setup!
You have FF f/0.95?
I do, canon 50 F0.95 for full frame
A 50/0.95 doesn’t do low light better than a 24/1.4 when handheld because you need to use shutter speeds a stop faster (than the 24). If you got a tripod then you can stop down anyway… unless you’re doing some very specific night motion stopping stuff.
The best low light handheld lenses now are stabilised f/2 primes (FF).
instead of being disappointed that it can’t record 4k internally, we can finally hope and expect super clean 1080/60p, no moiré, impressive high iso, from a full frame sensor! very useful imho
Another advantage, perhaps, is the price. If one wants to record 4k, they can always buy and use an external recorder.
let’s hope so
I’m interested in the camera’s low light capability myself, and likely won’t use the 4K video. So I appreciate Sony using an external recorder for the 4K (for those who want it) and therefore making the A7s body more affordable for someone like me.
totally agree. I am hoping I can rent the 4k attachment whenever I need it.
let’s keep our fingers crossed that the price will be reasonable.
It’s rumored to be $2500 at launch in 2 months, which given Sony’s penchant for early and frequent price cuts on their camera bodies, you can expect to pay the same price of the GH4 by September/October. Really not bad at all. My only complaint is that it misses out on the A6000 AF, I guess you can’t have it all. Maybe the A9 will check all right boxes
My sony phone can do 4k but unfortunately I dont think I can attach it to the A7s. Anyway, in camera 4k cant be far away even if it might not be pro level 50 mbit…
It has been done ages ago. Even the GoPros can do it. Quality is something else. Also check the more recent Panasonic GH4.
Btw my Samsung Note 3 has been having 4k since September 2013 🙂
How large is the sensor in your Note?
Not the point. Just replying to nex5n who thinks nothing else has 4k recording except his/her phone.
You Sony phone has a full frame sensor?
Yes, this is a top-of-the-line HD camera for the masses, with 4K if you need it.
yes and I don’t need 24mp anyway. I never export my images higher than 12mp. I think my A7 will be on sale soon and replaced by the A7s. I will wait to see how clean the high iso is before I sell my A7. I am very excited I was saying for the longest sony should make a 12mp FF camera.
Atomos announced their 4k hdmi recorder and it is expected to sell for $2k. So you’ll need to add this to the cost of the A7K to get 4k video.
When the GH4 captures as much light on it’s sensor as the A7S, let me know. Different design compromises. You can wait for the larger A or PL mount camera, which probably will have all the electronics built in (a larger body).
Any one have any thoughts on how this sensor, with its lower megapixel count and larger cell size, may work with wider angle, m-mount lenses? I know that’s not a primary design goal. But could it be an added benefit?
As soon as I get my hands on one I will check it. Yes, I would think the performances would be much better.
I think that the bigger pixel sizes will make the lenses work better. However, that being said, I doubt that they will focus as much on optimizing the microlens array to needs of lenses that are not cine lenses.
Considering Sony actually promote A7s for use with rangefinder lenses (unlike A7 and A7R) one wonder if it will perform better than A7 with wide anglerangeinder lenses like Voigtländer Heliar 15/4.5 and Color Skopar 21/4.0 as well as Zeiss ZM Biogon lenses?
Those big pixels should be able to capture more ligh in the corners even if it is coming from a steep angle.
The Cosina 15/4.5 is even problematic on M cams. I would expect the CV 12/5.6 to do well as well as the 21/4.
Not sure about the ZM Biogons. I would be surprised if they do well.
Alpha mount system???
So the a7 is now alpha mount???
So what are the dSLTs? Or is the “traditional” alpha mount gone???
“alpha mount” includes both “A mount” and “E mount”, A7s is E-mount, confusing ain’t it?
Alpha brand… alpha camera… Those can logically include both mount. But alpha “mount” logically should only be a single mount.
It would be like taking DVD players and VCRs and calling them both DVD players.
It is Sony Style -> giving you a crap* with a cherry** on top 🙁
* the crap:
– No internal 4K (loosing portability (!) – the key factor we expect form such a tool)
– The same inefficient battery as in previous A7 (you need extra bag for batteries)
– 50Mbits internally but 8bit (Pro grading and perfect green screen is a dream)
– Continuous shooting Max. 2.5fps (unbelievable – are you playing with me, sony?)
– No latest and good AF technology similar to A6000 (I don’t know what to say…)
** the cherry:
– superb low light performance
This sweets A9 or A99II
This sweet abilities are leaved for A9 or A99II
Continuous shooting: Max. 2.5fps, Speed Priority Continuous shooting: Max. 5.0fps
so not too bad
Realistically speaking, to get the most out of 4k you need a good support system. Once fitted, things like batteries and external recorders don’t add weight and size to make a difference.
Not having the ability to record internally will hurt people who were planning on using this as an action cam, etc. We’ll have to wait and see if someone makes a grip that records 4k.
No fast frame rate, no PSPDAF, no global shutter, no in-camera 4k, no high bit rates… VERY DISAPPOINTING.
Looks like an economy model in the range. But probably will be priced higher than others to grab video market only.
Lol, global shutter? Sony makes a single camera with a global shutter, a video camera that costs nearly $30,000. I don’t think it’s coming to a sub-$2000 still/video camera in the near future.
What about continuous drive by A7/A7R/A7S: 5 fps/4 fps/??? fps
Here (http://www.sony.net/Products/di/en-us/translation_img/products/vq5f/overview/spec.pdf) we see: Continuous shooting: Max. 2.5fps, Speed Priority Continuous shooting: Max. 5.0fps
Very poor frame rate!!! (((
How it correlate with: Continuous shooting: 88 frames (JPEG Extra Fine L) and Speed Priority Continuous shooting: 65 frames (JPEG Extra Fine L)?!!
What about continuous drive by A7/A7R/A7S: A7 – Contrast Detect (sensor)+Phase Detect / A7R – ONLY Contrast Detect (sensor)/ A7S – Contrast Detect (sensor)+Phase Detect??? DPReview says that A7S HAS Phase Detect! Here (http://www.sony.net/Products/di/en-us/translation_img/products/vq5f/overview/spec.pdf) we see that it has only Contrast-detection AF!! What is the true??? A6000 has 179 autophocus points, A7 has 117 points, A7R – 25, A7S – ONLY 25 too? So what the finl result?
What about autofocus systems in A7/A7R/A7S: A7 – Contrast Detect (sensor)+Phase Detect / A7R – ONLY Contrast Detect (sensor)/ A7S – Contrast Detect (sensor)+Phase Detect??? DPReview says that A7S HAS Phase Detect! Here (http://www.sony.net/Products/di/en-us/translation_img/products/vq5f/overview/spec.pdf) we see that it has only Contrast-detection AF!! What is the true??? A6000 has 179 autophocus points, A7 has 117 points, A7R – 25, A7S – ONLY 25 too? So what the finl result?
Ignore dpreview for the forseeable future. They’re always spewing off about this or that.
Absolutely impressed with the hi-ISO quality and the dynamic range it can muster. This is Sony trying to show that they’ve got what it takes. Great job.
http://www.sony.net/Products/di/en-us/translation_img/products/vq5f/overview/spec.pdf
“http://www.sony.net/Products/di/en-us/translation_img/products/vq5f/overview/spec.pdf”
This one may be quite interesting to use side by side with my D4, instead of getting D4s. I don’t shoot 4K but nice to have it. I don’t think I’ll like this “external” 4K thing, its compact and light size would became larger and heavier (in addition to my big bulky camera and lenses).
Admin, what is the likelihood that the A77II will have Olympus’s 5-axis IBIS? Did Sony get ANYTHING from their cash injection to Olympus technology-wise??
Engineering wise, it would take huge resources to launch a consumer product with 5-way IBIS. They would have to pretty much develop the IBIS from scratch, since the Alpha line use much bigger sensors than m43. It is unlikely that Sony can afford to invest in that direction right now since it has already invested massively(in terms of engineering manpower) in the FE system. They are probably waiting to get a return on their FE investment first, and then maybe, invest some of that return to implement IBIS in the next generation. This cycle will take at least 2 fiscal years IMO.
This camera is a bit if a shame, really they should have gone for 8fps burst and PDAF at least like the A7, but maybe they are saving the speed for the a mount cameras, time will tell. It may well be amazing with leica lenses and I’m sure we will see a million tests on every wide angle lens.
According to SAR there is an A9 in the works. Possibly a beefier camera with higher fps and larger battery, I only fear the price will also be much larger.
Of course the price will be higher, but that’s fine, you get what you pay for, the A7’s are bargains.
True but you really shouldn’t have to pay for improved AF speed. The cheap Olympus EPL5 focuses about as fast at the flagship OMD-EM-1.
The buffer, fps and other areas the OMD is faster but not everyone uses burst shooting and so only those who need those features will pay for it. However AF is something almost anyone uses and so fast AF should be a given at this price point.
However according to Dpreview AF sensitivity is improved and they claim the A7s can focus in -4 EV light which is supposedly matching the best cameras at present. If true this is a step in the right direction.
Nowhere does it say that it this A7s has a 4K codec inside!
Very impressed. Yes, internal 4k would have been nice, but considering what it does include (XAVCS, 50mb/s, TIMECODE!, Slog2, XLR module) Sony produced a pocket video camera for real-world production needs with a very realistic 4k future. I shoot mainly with an FS100 (TV plus Web and some Corporate) and I can’t believe Sony released the 7s before an updated FS100. As it stands today, the 7s delivers everything I wished for in the next FS100. I will absolutely be getting one.
love me some Slog.
Sorry but thats stupid if you need to rely on an accessory to record 4K. (X)ergonomics/(X)portability/(X)mobility? They should have just upgraded the SD card reader to support SD UHS-II I’m sure that the Sandisk Extreme Pro UHS-II 280MB/s* would have no problem of recording 4K. Or is Sony saying that the hardware inside the a7s isn’t fast enough to write 4K in the camera. That the camera “needs a crutch.” I hope that they resolve this in the future a9.
If the external 4K device needs outlet power = your immobile. If the device uses camera batter= faster battery drain= less video+battery will get warm/hot from fast drain= camera might overheat. T_T
or a nice firmware can fix this. Right Sony? SONY? you there? oh they are working on another camera which means no more support 0_0
It’s not uncommon to have to use a recorder for higher resolution / higher quality video. Even the Sony F5 requires an external recorder for 4k. This is such a small camera, the limitation is understandable. Rather than enlarge the body (and increase the cost), those that need it can add the feature modularly, which is better than not offering the ability at all.
I’m impressed; an intelligent comment from someone that actually
knows what he’s talking about.
Thanks, we are all intelligent…just trying to make the best choice where to put our money LOL.
A larger body could accommodate all the electronics necessary for in body 4K. The sensor on the GH4 is much smaller and everything can fit on that body. There is no free lunch, for now. It is likely that an A mount 4K camera is coming.
Im just a little disappointed because…I don’t think it’s in the size. I would say it could be hardware or software to blame or both. I mean why can their 20.1MP smartphone record 4K internally and not the camera? I don’t know if the smartphones record true 4K or if its just up-scaled through software. Someone who is 100% certain let us know.
it’s a much smaller sensor, so it produces less heat than the A7S.
(1/2.4″ vs FF)
Yes your right. We ARE talking about FF vs smartphone sensor. But still what beautiful clarity and crisp detail. Just WOULD be nice to have 4K writing in-camera. I have a MacBook Pro retina 13 2560 x 1600 res. Not 4K but I watched 4k vids like tears of steel , and the clarity of 4K is like reality to the naked eye. Can’t see a single pixel.
It would be nice if Sony would release a 1st party 4k hdmi recorder designed to communicate and attach to alpha cameras.
Sony item would be expensive. People will look for cheap 3rd party solution. But 1st party support will be great even if we have to pay more.
It would be expensive, but a battery grip style attachment with 4k recording and dual XLR inputs would be hot.
I think that this is a sign of a pro full fram SLT camera to come .. Sony might use this sensor on A-mount SLT to challenge Canon and Nikon 1DX and 3Ds ! maybe .. who knows.. I don’t like this camera anyway :/
Exactly. I’d love to see an a99s. If they could also manage 4k internal on that one, that would be even better.
Pardon me, cough caugh,
can I get your attention please…
This just in!
New simple to understand clarification on the Mounting systems
reveals this ingenious hierarchy from the Sony Marketing department.
The Sony A 77II will come with what’s called an A-Mount that
contains the subset of the E-Mount similar to the A3000. (In other words it’s
what we formerly knew as the NEX mount)
Note: Closed mount is the old Alpha Mount with a large gap to
sensor distance, Open Mount is the New Nex type with small gap to sensor (mirror
less).
Next Notice the case sensitivity in the design below and don’t
confuse Alpha with A or a!
Alpha Mount refers to both the A-Mount/Closed Mount & the
E-Mount/Open Mount
A-Mount then refers to both the a-Mount (FF + APS-c) &
E-Mount/Open Mount (FF & APS-c)
Finally, for the future: e-Mount will refer to a new Lighfield
based Lens & mount technology that does not require you to focus at the
time you take a photograph. All Post Process Raw to JPG etc…
This is true because I just made up a bunch of what I wanted using terminology to fit after the fact, same method used by Sony Marketing.
Oh! forgot one thing… in the future all A-Mount (old Alpha Mounts) will be referred to as the Mount-Ed and discontinued.
Sorry pale, A mount will always allow for larger size lenses, therefore more comfortable design and better optical performance.
…. And have you noticed? there is not trace of Ibis in any of the E mount bodies and may never be.
I doubt they will discontinue A mount at least for the next 10/15 years.
+1. If Sony force people to get only E mount bodies and expect them to use a $400 adapter that can fail as it has 2 points of failure to use their lenses then sorry but people will bail out and switch.
Really really curious how fast and accurate its AF is in low light condition….
I would wager about as fast (or slow) as the A7r as both lack OSPDAF.
This sensor should be quicker than the 36mp one, which would make contrast detect af a little quicker as well. I imagine the improved low light performance should affect the low light af. Let’s wait and see.
You are correct. Hidden in Dpreviews post it is mentioned that low light sensitivity is improved to work in -4 EV (The A7r is 0 EV).
Hopefully AF speed is improved in bright light also.
12,2 MP . I was hoping for 24 MP at least. 25 Focus points. That i way to litle. Don´t see anything about if its with the AA filter in front of the sensor or not
Err you have the A7 for that. The A7s is for video shooters mostly. I don’t care for video but there are many who do. If you are like me then stick with the A7 or A7r. Same still features but higher MP sensors.
Rest assured that a 12MP FF needs AA filter.
USD1700 for 12MP camera? Too expensive!
If you’re so worried about Megapixels, then you can just get the regular A7 or A7R. Obviously, you really don’t know what’s going on with this camera…
True this isn’t an upgrade but a side grade. Something for mainly video shooters. Those who don’t care for it can get the A7r or A7 which have practically the same features as this one. Thats why Sony has kept its designation as A7 only with an added s.
However, A7s does not record 4K internally
Yes thats a surprising con given the SD card speeds of today.
However lets not forget megapixels is hardly everything. Sensor size is the main reason for its high cost. Plus its the first Sony camera to be able to AF in -4 EV light.
Honestly I believe it will cost more than $1700 for the video features. 🙁
It is very impressive for a mirroless camera could AF in -4 EV light. I hope it’s AF speed as fast as A6000.
A7 series is a great success to Sony. However, Sony has to fix the light leak issue and launch more FE lenses.
It is difficult to jump ship to Sony as I have few Nikon F-mount lens, and it is regret to say that Nikon produce a series of rubbish in mirrorless system. It’s mirrorless system sales terribly in Malaysia.
That light leak issue is one of the most over hyped issues I have ever seen. Luminous Landscapes tested out different cameras and they all showed light leaks.
Regarding the A6000, the A7s lacks the phase detect points, so tracking focus shouldn’t be very good.
It makes sense to offer horses for courses… I’d like to see an a7r street/wedding (silent shutter)
THIS IS FULL FRAME not a small sensor m4/3 !!
Please use your BRAIN to compare it !!
Only if they put a bigger sensor on the FDR-AX1 and allowed interchangeable lens… smh. If consumers are waiting for new products, and not caring about the older “pro” models that they probably won’t buy anyway, then why sabotage the specs on these new “consumer” models. It makes no sense to me. I love Sony products but Sony really needs to understand that consumers are smartening up, and not all stupid as they probably think we are.
Lets not fear. After all this is Sony’s 1st 4K recording option in a compact camera, and I think what they are doing is by putting it in the “lowest grade” FF camera. Sony wants to see how it will go. Get feedback. See what needs improvements. In order to have a more “polished” version/option for their future cameras. Otherwise, you never know what needs improvements unless it is tried. The more you try something. The more your list of pros/cons grow.
People who don’t think this is an amazing offering by Sony should get their heads examined!
Sony took a huge leap by providing a 4K upgradable camera. All it needs is an external recorder. You’re getting a 1.1x crop ( full-frame ) sensor designed specifically to capture amazing 4K footage. If you don’t want 4K now, that’s fine, you’re getting a 1080/60p or 720/120p for amazing slow motion footage.
This camera will basically change the industry and put tremendous pressure on the other players to get their act together. With 5Dii, canon became the king of SLR-based videos, but they played it safe and didn’t want to cannibalize their high-end market and did very little innovation in the past 5 years. Well, guess what? Sony just handed their asses on a platter.
Sensor sounds good, but CONTRAST DETECTION AF is sooo yesterday…:(
Yes. The only AF that is older is PDAF.
Pdaf on sensor is not old tech.
And a 12MP raw on my A7 ? It’s enough for me.
But can it sync HSS with native mount Photixx Odin like my a900/700/200 can?
My a7R cannot.
Must every Sony gain come with a loss?
The Sony flash system is less sophisticated than the Minolta flash system of twenty years ago.
Please Sony, allow my a7R to sync HSS with the iISO native Phottix Odin smart slave. Until then, I’ll keep reaching for the a900/700/200/77. The a7R can’t keep pace with the old dogs.
You should have picked up the A7. That can sync at 1/250.
Though I agree the A7r should have the ability to sync at 1/250 seconds. For $2200 its more than reasonable to expect such a feature.
Although I too wasn’t very impressed with the A7s as compared to my expectations. But everyone seems to be missing one very important aspect which is honestly quite impressive. Even better AF than the Canon 6D in Low Light!!??
•Improved Fast Intelligent AF performance in light as low as EV-4
rvs
All very interesting but when will Sony offer a real selection of A7 compatible lenses? Their Nex line of lenses is a mixed bag at best. If Fuji can do such a stellar job of producing professional grade lenses— why can’t Sony? Sony makes so many bodies without introducing a full spectrum of the light gathering devices which make all our images possible— and that is just frustrating. I still have a N7 and will look hard at the A6000 for my E mount Sony/Zeiss optics but I have dismissed any thoughts of acquiring the A7/A7r because of the lack of W/A lenses— and I am unwilling to rely on converters with manual focus only lenses. When FF is required I just eat a bigger breakfast and haul out the 5D3 with my excellent assortment of lead weighted L glass. I am beginning to see a lot of X-2 and XT-1 Fujis being shot professionally– both in the studio and on location. I had several Fuji cameras back in the film days that produced images as tack sharp as my Hasselblad because of the Fuji glass. Just thinking out loud.
Yeah, they need at least a fast 24mm (f1.4 to f2.0), the rumored 16-35mm f4 (though I would prefer a 21-35mm f2 or f2.8), a 85mm f1.2 or 1.4 and a macro lens (something long and stabilized). A 35mm f1.4 would be nice too but this would be second priority.
Chuck in a 50mm 1.8 oss too and I’ll gladly switch from a-mount!
Hmm… by “full spectrum of the light” do you mean something like what Foveon is trying to do?
It would be nice to have a firmware update for the a7/a7r with the added video features like changing the black-levels in video/s-log2 etc. of the a7s But this is probably not going to happen…
I agree but that would cannibalize sales of the A7s so I would wager Sony wouldn’t do that.
no stabilizer… but it’s veeery impressive ISO… and “someone” say no high Iso…hihihihi!!
Having higher ISO values doesn’t mean high ISO performance is better. Some compact cameras can shoot at ISO 12800. I have no idea if any image clicked at ISO 12800 on a small sensor would be usable for anything but the camera manufacturer has included it.
That said initial impressions say ISO performance is very good but further testing is required.
of course it is, but this is a very good starting point, i don’t think it will disappoint to much!
and now, we can expect a very high performance for the new a99. i hope veeery soooon!!!
I very much doubt they’ll put the 12Mp sensor into the A99-II.
why not? a99s 🙂 😀
would be totally awesome, but not gonna happen
too many barrys around asking for MOAR MEGAPIXEL
i shoot only with the manual lenses so i don’t care about af and burst rate, i also don’t care about megapixels because screen resolution is enough for me and i live in a place where most of the year it’s dark or twilights so low-light iso is a paramount.
in result this camera sounds ideal :). i will wait for it to drop in price and then will get one. at least, i might do that :). i would prefer an apsc one to ff, old manual lenses aren’t that good at edges, but after all i don’t care much about sharpness, colors are way more important and the low light sensitivity should be awesome in a7s.
if they would also make honest lossless raw instead of the current lossy “7bit” crap, that would be just great :).
so, so far this camera sounds almost fantastic :).
7 bit?
yep. good morning )). the original study is in russian with all the proofs and algorithm details, so i guess it’s of no use to you. but here are two quick links to the results of sony’s approach ).
http://diglloyd.com/blog/2014/20140214_1-SonyA7-artifacts-star-trails.html
http://blog.lexa.ru/2014/02/28/rawdigger_105_obnaruzhenie_vozmozhnoi_posterizatsii_v_failakh_sony_craw.html
in short, sony stores 11 max/min values for blocks of sensels +7bit deltas for every sensel in that block. if the sensels are too far away in brightness from the max/min, then all you have is 7bit :). if the value is close enough to max/min, then the bits are added. basically, it means that on all sharp edges sony messes up colors and the same if the pixels are producing noise.
Digilloyd/lloyd chambers is a nikon fanboy and a fearmonger. Who in their right mind would write something like “convoluted design usability”? LOL
Give me a couple of days… I’m going to do my own analysis of the raw files and I’ll show how it’s not 7 bit (although compressed) and how this is all blown out of proportions.
i don’t care who digiloyd is, it’s just a site in english that i posted for. the original research was made by Alex Tutubalin, author of rawdigger. and he’s not a fanboy :). it has nothing to do with the digilloyd.
you can open the alex’s blog and see all the researches done by him many times, with all the proofs and all the shots and the precise algo.
i’m sorry, but i trust the guy who wrote rawdigger and put all the proofs years ago :). all of this was discussed so many times that it’s not interesting to get back to this. however, if it’s new for you and you don’t want to review the existing researches,..
well, it’s up to you to write your own raw decrypting software, because obviously raw file processors that do employ demosaic are absolutely useless for the research. i suppose, in the end you will just go down to rawdigger, whose author was the one to write about 7bit issue )).
in any case, i should say that the effect is not that visible on the resulting pics, it’s not always 7bit, however in certain cases like starry sky it can be quite visible. and of course the general pasterisation on borders/shadows.
if you want a quick proof, just take a look at the sony raw filesize and try to figure out why or how :).
the advantage that they have with this algo is that they are able to process/write data in many streams simultaneously, the data chunks are always fixed in size. and of course the data can be written faster. they have introduced this in a900.
I know very well that there’s lossy compression and raw cookery. If im against those I’d have stuck with Canon bodies 🙂
My issue is with the 7 bit raw comment. Saying it’s 7bit raw suggests that there are only 128 levels of shades. Which is ridiculous and we all know it’s not true. I know the original guy didn’t claim it that way.
What I also want to show is how much it matters. I hate to use imaging resource files because that’s very noob like… I’ll get a d800 and try to shoot similar things.
And yes… I’ll be writing my own software to do the analysis… have done this ages ago so only need some tweaking. It’ll be done on both raw and demosaiced data.
I know how every one brags so much about doing comparisons on demosaiced data but comparing demosaiced data is actually a bit more sensible because that’s what we see. Different sensors have different response curves and without bringing them to the same levels, not much makes sense. It’s sort of like how sites like photozone, dxomark, etc. show numbers when comparing lenses but those values don’t translate directly to what we experience.
then just study this page: http://www.rawdigger.com/howtouse/sony-craw-arw2-posterization-detection
it will tell you everything you need, including the shadows + quantizaton and the curves applied.
Thanks, I’ll have a look.
Also I want to put this in to perspective, independently 🙂 will be on my blog eventually.
well, i guess everyone is to decide what is important and what is not. visually this thing is not so obvious, so..
however i’m a bit of the perfectionists, so i hate having all these betterizers before storing raw file, noise killing that i can’t switch off and so on.. and having also a lossy raw file is a really overkill for my mania. i just would bug me all the time :). and probably will, since i like a7s a lot, based on what we know so far. sight.
anyways, i’m one of these guys sticking to ccd because all cmos sensors i’ve seen so far look grayish to me. as if shots are taken through a trasparent plastic. so perhaps i will manage to wait till the next generation of sensors is here, be that organic cmos or x3 sony sensors.. )
Oh by all means i too am a perfectionist… in every sense. But if I were to wait for my perfect camera I won’t be taking any photos at all 🙂
If colour is your concern, check to see if x-rite’s colour matching tools can match the colour between CCD and CMOS. They do a good job of matching between Canon and Nikon, so, I can’t imagine things being worse. Another thing you could do is experimenting with various mild colour filters and then doing a custom white balance.
yes, yes, i know about all these things, but..
i’m a poor guy from a poor region, buying a camera means saving money for 1-2-3-4 years. and i really don’t feel like buying a NEW camera that provides results that i like less than my existing old one.. and to do all the extrawork then with the every raw file doing the color mappings and so on. it’s not my idea of an upgrade, if you know what i mean ). if i spend so much, i should _love_ the equipment, not to work on compensating things i hate. 🙂 therefore i was waiting either for new sensor tech or just very low-pixel cmos. and now i’m afraid a7s might make me start saving the money ).
Us digital folks have it a lot easier than ppl in the film days. Back then photography meant either you had to inhale chemicals in a darkroom before seeing your shots or you had to wait until someone else did it for you 🙂
Honestly, I think there are ways of automating things like colour profiling/matching to do things in a click or two and apply the effect on hundreds of raw files at a time (e.g. adobe dng profiles, scripts, etc.)
Drop me an email if you find something interesting and I’ll send you things you might find interesting. ( … at gmail)
well, i did do the chemicals, and inserting the film into spirals in a toilet (the only really dark room) and doing the films in bathroom with all the stuff under the red lamp ).
about automation, sure there are. but it just doesn’t make me happier :). and the results i get after such postprocessing hurt my “truth” feeling – all the tones altering and so on. i even dislike hard photoshoped pictures, making things beautiful but not real. i know that in any case info in raw is far from being the truth, i know about subjective perception, about metamerism, color profilings of the monitors and so on and so forth, but for me it just kills the delight. and i don’t pay for that :). upgrade should give me new positive emotions and for that, there should be no necessary color mappings required :). even if it means sticking to my old camera for 10 years :). i don’t make money with my shots, so, i don’t care :).
Well I hope you find the right tool that makes you enjoy your hobby 🙂
+genotypewriter, nice Pic:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6t8_GUd0v8w/UrzNDi96lLI/AAAAAAAAARU/Pu2AvX3Rgb4/s500/20131226_185718s.jpg
Reading your Blog, Sub’ing you on YouTube.
(Note: Discus inserts my last uploaded Video here, a new Feature or an annoyance; nothing I can do about it)
My Channel is at:
https://www.youtube.com/user/LowLightVideos
here is the original post from which everything has began:
http://blog.lexa.ru/2012/12/29/o_sortakh_raw_u_sony.html
for two years people been laughing at sony users regarding 7bit raw, at least in russia ). everyone is already tired to wait till sony fixes the issue. and until they won’t most people don’t take them seriously ).
Not to
record 4K internally is a big mistake. They did not do it because they
did not like to do it based in economics not in electronics. Actual gopro 3+
record 15fps and next gopro 4 this summer will do 30fps in a cuarter the size
and processing power of A7s. My Samsung Note 3 phone records 4k inside at
30fps. And they have all electronics needed but does not include it, so the
camera FAILS. They try to sell you little advance when they are able to make a
solid camera instead. Of course it would add price to package, say 400$ more,
but 4k internally is a big jump, they will add it sooner or later. Black magic
pocket can almost do it in a smaller package and bigger sensor. I will need to
continue waiting or buy a used Canon 50D to do RAW 2.5k video for 400$. These
multinationals do not want you to have It all now, what will sell you again and
again if we deliver what you really need??? WHEN SOMEBODY WILL REALLY DELIVER
STATE OF THE ART ELECTRONICS INSTEAD OF HALF THAT??? Of course A7s can record
4K 10 bit internally, but then they will have no camera to resell to you one
time after another. No economic sense so no matter if a lot of product sense.
The sensor produces the same heat whether you record internally or externally,
they just did not include the correct SD standard for enough speed, that could
be killer capacity, but also kill our economy.
The GH4 records 4K and UHD internally into a SD Card, the A7s doesn’t, and it is
not because it was not technically possible. It was because has more economic
sense sell the A7s a little cheaper or equal than GH4 and let the people
interested in 4k to buy an atomos shogun or similar.
Time to see the GH4 and 14-140 instead. Better all round solution. Bye Sony.
it’s quite amusing to see how so many people believe that this camera is destined for 4k video people only. and if it doesn’t deliver it, it fails )).
in fact, most people don’t need 4k, 1080 is more than enough and will be that for at least a couple of years until 4k tvs are sold in mass.
also, soon they will offer an upgrade to 8k! bastards!! )) and people once again will have to buy-in!
regarding the +$400, why should people who need 1080 and low-light pay extra $400? great sense ).
well, there will be a9, perhaps it will have full 4k, or maybe it won’t. i don’t care :).
I saw the conference and it was one hour of “you need 4k” “4k is the future” “wow 4k” etc…
perhaps next time you won’t devote your priceless time to promo crap and just think by looking at the specifications 🙂
Don’t listen to Sony marketing and hyperbole. They continually lie and hype things up. THey said Leica lenses and other third parties lenses work wonderfully on the A7/r. They don’t! They sold a hell of a lot of cameras because of their marketing and a lot of people sold their cameras after they found the results from their lenses were bad.
@fff – There are tons of fallacies and incorrect comparisons to refute one by one.
Suffice to say you CANNOT compare a tiny sensor Go pro to a 35mm sensor !
The GH4 is a closer comparison but its still 1/4th the size of the A7s sensor.
About why the A7s cannot record internally I have no clue but comparing video quality of Gopro to this camera is as ridiculous as comparing still quality of a Gopro with the A7s.
If the GH4 suits your needs then please go ahead. No one is forcing you to buy this camera.
For those who don’t want a 1/4th sensor size and shoot video with an external recorder will probably like this camera.
So the Alpha mount system (note is says MOUNT not brand) is both A mount and E mount now is it? Yep, that’s as clear as mud and isn’t going to confuse people at all…Sony are idiots.
Well the new new designation now is Alpha E mount and Alpha A mount. Not confusing at all !!!! 😛
Clear to us, yes. Try explaining to somebody buying the system that you can’t mount X alpha mount lens on y alpha mount body, despite them both being alpha mount. It’s another marketing fail for Sony…
Read again 😉
I would MUCH prefer more lenses for the existing cameras than another new camera.
You and a LOT of other people. Unfortunately the time and resources required to launch new lenses quickly are a lot more than simply churning out new cameras. Not to mention sales of cameras far out sell lenses in Sony land.
So lens development and release probably take a back seat over the more profitable option of releasing new cameras. 🙁
Anyone know, which cameras are hidden in picture with pz lens?
+mav, do you mean the Image directly below the words “Surprise: Sony also announced the Power Zoom 28-135mm f/4.0 development” ?
http://i2.rozetka.ua/tips/6/6063.jpg
That is an F65. See: http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/show-highend/resource.solutions.bbsccms-assets-show-highend-F65.shtml .
Just shy of being 7d of 4k age!
O well! Waiting for the a77 II. AND of course….. all the flaws from all.Can’t they just put like a microscoop bayonet on it and we can all turn and chose what we like..:-p
all will be happy…… 🙂
Did you get the facts right? From what I read at dpreview, my impression is that the camera DOES record 4K on SD at 4:2:0. It’s only the highest quality and bitrate, i.e. 4:2:2 and 50 Mbps, that needs to be recorded externally through HDMI.
This is as per sony themselves:
Non-compressed image output is now possible at 4K (QFHD: 3840 x 2160 pixels) resolution with selectable 30p (25p) and 24p frame rates. You can choose 4K or Full HD output from a menu. The 4K output capability allows recording of high-quality 4K images by a 4K-compatible recorder, as well as 4K output directly to a compatible monitor or TV.
So, I guess not. 4K is possible only via HDMI using a third party recorder:
http://www.sony.net/Products/di/en-us/products/vq5f/index.html
I just watched that on my macbook pro retina 15″ (not 4K but not that far off) and that’s probably the best video quality I’ve ever seen outside of the cinema. I can only imagine what it looks like on a good 4K screen without youtube compression.
I would rather outboard recording and better quality any day.
Suffice
to say you CANNOT compare a tiny sensor Go pro to a 35mm sensor !
That is a fallacy. They can be compared. They are just mediums of obtaining a 4K image 30
times a second. That is. Nobody is comparing the quality of that images. From
electronics point of view, you just process and move an amount of bits inside
the GOPRO and inside the A7s. If a micro camera can do it why a bigger and more
expensive camera CAN NOT DO IT? My opinion: because they do not like to give
you that so easily and so cheap. They will do when forced to do so my market,
not before. If next black magic pocket achieve 4K RAW what face will you see in
the electronics giant SONY? They could have put fast SD interface and we will have another thing, another very different thing.
I’m curious as to why there are only static shots in the sample. I don’t remember seeing any panning shots at all. Leaves me to wonder about the aliasing…
It seems that all of the A7 models are in a way half finished, a product of a transitioning camera company. That’s okay though, after all the first iPhone was sort of horrible and people who used the first two samsung galaxy phones don’t really remember them fondly.
I guess the A9 would probably be a truly great camera, and future models will be even better. So it’s a bright and shiny future. The only caveat is that, looking back, the Sony cameras you buy today will not be worth much in two years.
I highly doubt any camera you buy today will be worth much in two years. Technology is advancing so rapidly that these bodies are obsolete shortly after they’re released. You can’t really look at camera equipment as an investment in anything other than yourself these days. That having been said, new tech doesn’t diminish the quality of the images you can take with these cameras.
so do we se the SONY APS-C 4K THEATRE would say… enough early
befor christmass 2014 begins?
hmmmm?
not… ohy my good this is 5 minutes in the future we can not think longer than
60 seconds…oh my good i must call my nanny..oh no my mother..oh no my dentist…
in real how low expensive is the new extern-SONY-4k-recorder
699,- usd $
599,-usd$
not?
so a price normal go down gh4 will see fast 1200, 1100, one thousend….
and i should give 2000, 2400, ore more only for the sony r7s and in 3 weeks the
r7s-mk-2 and the normal bullshit runns…
no. and not.
in aotum the lowprice panasonic g7 4k itiotique 8 bit intern 699 is in shops
canons nikons and much penty aps-c sonys and the normal marketing-fun?
april is gone summer is surf… and novemer 2014 rings…
and not my money will ring not ONE CENT..
no
If you don’t have any display that is greater than 1920 x 1080, and have not seen 4K in person. Then please don’t go talking you don’t need it. Go to a Best Buy and spend 10 sec looking @ sonys 65″ 4K tv and then come up to your traditional 720 or 1080 tv. You’ll want 4K. I hate when people ask the stupid question “why do you need it?” When you buy yourself something BETTER. Why do we take picture with our rear cameras on our smartphones. Why not just use the front 1.3 or 2 MP camera, because it is the better and logical choice. I’m sorry if anyone feels hurt, but I guaranty that no one who has bought something better will never in the future buy(and keep) something worse. We are people of great intelligence and we get used to thing to quickly. We have a thirst that can never be quenched for better.
If you went from windows 720/1080 to MacBook Pro Retina(like I did) you know the UHHh feeling you get when you look at an average low res screen. As if your vision got worse. Retina or better is the future.
4k is great and we want it, but not with an external recorder (ninja shogun) for $2000 on a prosumer camera! By the way, HDMI is not a stable professional connector . It was made to connect dads Tv to the stereo.
Just bought an A6000. Might be the last Sony camera I buy… This story of Alpha-mounts is just stinking too much. I fear there won’t be any APS-C E-mount lens anymore, only super expensive FE lenses, which those who couldn’t afford an A7 and bought an A6000/Nex instead won’t be able to afford as well. It’s just… stupid. Seriously, a 135mm or a 85mm and a 300mm zoom are the only things that really lack to the APS-C E-mount system, and it’s a shame that Sony hasn’t been able to release one of these three lenses lately. 16-70 Zeiss ? Very good, but not necessary (you can always pixel peep and find the lens sharper compared to other zoom lenses, but seriously, those are criterion you only worry about if your whole picture is boring). Zeiss macro 50mm f2.8 ? Very specialized, very expensive, not that necessary either, and at that price, I’d rather have a 50f1.8 and some other good lens. A good portrait lens, i.e. 85mm or 135mm, and not an expensive Zeiss, but a more affordable one (below 500 USD) ? Big need. A 300mm zoom ? I’d definitely go for that, and I’m pretty sure I’m not alone. Come on, Sony, that’s just two or three lenses, and you’ll have the whole APS-C E-mount line complete. You can’t quit there, have some respect for those who trusted you and bought an A6000 !
Sony had to do even less to complete their top A-Mount line (just add weather-sealing and SSM to all top lenses), but instead they forgot about A-Mount and went for NEX cameras.
Now, E-Mount users get the same treatment.
Why do people buy in to a system that doesn’t have what they want and call _it_ stupid?
Why don’t we get from Sony the measurement of increased sensor sensitivity directly in equivalent F-Stops. F-Stops, being a measurement for a lens, is mathematically objective, as opposed to a manufacturer’s setting for maximum ISO, which is extremely subjective.
A7R is advertised as capable to an ISO of 25,600 but usually the selected upper limit is 1,600 or 3,200 at best.
A7S is advertised as capable to an ISO of 409,600 but the people that filmed the Sony’s Launch film (Den Lennie & crew) felt “very confortable at 12,600 ISO”.
If, suddently, all of my lenses would get a “for real” 4 F-Stop light-gathering advantage because of this new sensor, this would be the best photographic news in years.
I don’t know for sure if an ISO of 1,600 on an A7R would be equivalent of an ISO of 25,600 in an A7S. I wish that Sony could be more precise as to the magnitude of its new sensor technology advantage.
+Javier Elizondo On Sony’s Page about the F65 @ http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/show-highend/resource.solutions.bbsccms-assets-show-highend-F65.shtml?PID=I:35mm_F65:F65%23/camera#/f65t1_3 there is some Info about a prior 35mm Sensor
Sony says (in the Section titled “14 stops of latitude”) that: “The F65 excels with 14 stops of exposure latitude.”,
in the Section titled “High sensitivity, low noise”, they say: “Base sensitivity is 800 EI. However the noise floor is very low, an achievement that has pleased cinematographers and delighted visual effects supervisors. So you can push sensitivity to 3200 EI.”,
in the Section titled “Natural color: S-Gamut” they say: “Sony’s S-Gamut system uses uncommonly pure CFA dyes to achieve a range of color that’s not only wider than other digital cameras. It’s wider than motion picture print film.”,
in the Section titled “Retaining maximum grayscale” the say: “Given all the effort Sony made to achieve 14 stops of exposure latitude, it would be a crime to crush this latitude in recording.”, AND “S-Log 2 Gamma. Productions using 1920 x 1080
progressive can take advantage of the full range of grayscale values from the deepest shadows to the brightest specular highlights, thanks to Sony’s latest S-Log 2 Gamma. S-Log 2 extends all the way to 1300% of nominal peak white, to deliver the full 14-stop dynamic range of the camera.”,
in the Section titled “Sony cameras compared”, in the Row about the PMW-F55 and PMW-F5, in the Column “Photosites Total” they say that the “Exposure Latitude” is “14 stops”, with the NEX-FS700U ‘falling’ to “Over 12 stops (CineGamma 4)”
AND
in the “Native ISO” Column they get between 800 and 2000 in S-Log 2,
SO, one might infer that Sony does not want to say that IF the a7s had ACES and 16 Bit RAW then you might get the same sort of performance out of it as you would from the F65 (of which recent figures claim they sold a bit more than 2000 of those Cameras) …
.
Hold you breathe and hope that we get some portion of those Specs. (and that Sony prices it just under 2K to follow the rest of their a7 Lineup, and compete visciously with the GH4).
Of course the F65 assumes expert, picky, purist Specs; and the a7s assumes the people are niether as fussy nor as educated. That is why they do not say.
If they say it is this or that they some expert will find some crack in the Gamut where it does not meet the F65 and thus it is no equal (and shame on them).
So if your not too fussy, and don’t know too much about Videography, you MIGHT ASSUME that you are buying the “little brother” of the F65 Series (a “Consumer Model”).
I think that MIGHT be your answer.
Thanks for your extensive reply, RobC. I do remember that I had clipped the “14 stops of latitude” news brought to my attention by SAR, when commenting about Sony’s future developments in sensor tech.
It is good to know that such enormous advancement is already here, even if Sony doesn’t brags about it with much data, that would lead us to compare the A7S with the Pro F65.
Hopefully it will be in the $2,000 range, because that would make it perfect for a second camera on my shoulder without the need for changing lenses.
Where is russian interface?
Everybody knows, that only Moscow will buy more items, than Finland, Italy and Poland together. Samsung is more people friendly.
Anybody know if there is a AA filter on A7s
hope about a update because the Alpha 7 the Problem of me was the 24pixel sensor than the me shot photos with standart config and low Picture Quality only in S why about the iso higher can generated with better photo Quality but now is the Alpha 7 not perfect to them Price hope realy of a update of this chip