Dpreview (Click here) posted the full Sony A7 review. The camera earned the Silver award. The reason why it didn’t earn the maximum Gold Award is:
While it has done a remarkable job creating these two cameras, we feel that some refinements are necessary in order to make them more competitive with the likes of the Canon EOS 6D and Nikon D610.
The areas that need the most improvement are related to JPEG image quality. While we recognize that some a7 shooters will be using Raw exclusively, those who are shooting JPEGs will see smudged details and strange artifacts, which are amplified if you edit and re-save them. Regardless of the file format you’re using, the Auto ISO feature needs to be more intelligent, to avoid blurry photos due to the camera’s love for the 1/60 sec shutter speed. Startup time, buffer clearing, and battery life were also a bit disappointing. We’re hoping that a firmware upgrade can address at least some of these issues.
Yes, the A7-A7r are not perfect camera. But they are a game changing news in the photo market. And as a personal note, I own the A7r. And for the kind of photography I do these are amazing tools!
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Specs and Store Links in US and Canada:
Dedicated Sony announcement page at Amazon US (Click here).
Sony A7r body at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS. TheCameraStore Canada.
Sony A7 body at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS. TheCameraStore Canada.
Sony A7 with 28-70mm kit lens at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS. TheCameraStore Canada.
Sony RX10 at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
Zeiss 24-70mm at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
Zeiss 35mm at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
Zeiss 55mm at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
70-200mm A-mount at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
Sony A-Mount to E-Mount Lens Adapter at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto.
Sony A to E adapter with mirror at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto.
A7/A7r leather case at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
A7/A7r vertical grip at Amazon, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
Sony W Series Battery Charger at Amazon, BHphoto.
Sony FA-CS1M Off-Camera Shoe at BHphoto.
Semi-Hard LCD Screen Protector for A7-A7r at Amazon, BHphoto.
Specs and Store Links in Europe:
Sony A7r body at Sony DE, UK, FR, IT, ES, NL, BE, CH, AT, SE, FI, NO, PT, WexUK, WexDE.
Sony A7 body at Sony DE, UK, FR, IT, ES, NL, BE, CH, AT, SE, FI, NO, PT, WexUK, WexDE, Amazon UK, Amazon DE, Amazon FR.
Sony A7 with 28-70mm kit Sony DE, UK, FR, IT, ES, NL, BE, CH, AT, SE, FI, NO, PT, WexUK, WexDE, Amazon UK, Amazon DE, Amazon FR.
Sony RX10 at Sony DE, UK, FR, IT, ES, NL, BE, CH, AT, SE, FI, NO, PT, WexUK, WexDE.
Zeiss 35mm at Sony DE, UK, FR, IT, ES, NL, BE, CH, AT, SE, FI, NO, PT,
Zeiss 55mm at Sony DE, UK, FR, IT, ES, NL, BE, CH, AT, SE, FI, NO, PT
Zeiss 24-70mm at Sony DE, UK, FR, IT, ES, NL, BE, SE, PT
Sony G 28-70mm lens at Sony DE, FR, IT, ES, NL, BE, CH, AT, SE, FI, NO.
Asia:
A7r at Digitalrev.
A7 at Digitalrev, Amazon Cina.
A7 with 28-70mm lens at Digitalrev.
0 Responses
Has anyone compared the shutter vibration issue (problem) of the A7r to the A7? I see lately no references to this technical faux-pas
It’s a non-issue for me. I hand hold down to 0.6″ with stablised lenses. Long lenses always need faster shutter speeds anyway.
There were heaps of shake claims like this when the 12MP D700 crowd got the 36MP D800 for the first time. It’s just people trying to use their new cameras the way they used their old ones and failing. Later, those who learn move on. Those who can’t, return the cameras and go back to their holes in the ground 🙂
“Technical Faux-pas”
FWIW the A7/A7R aren’t the only camera on Earth affected by it. See a recent blog post about the $7K Leica M240 and guess what, it has the same problem too:
http://diglloyd.com/blog/2013/20131025_1-LeicaM240-shutter-vibration.html
I work around the “problem” by attaching my A7R to the tripod rather than via the lens tripod collar. But then again the heaviest tele I have is only 800 g, so I can get away with it. YMMV of course.
“technical faux-pas”. Lol, whatever.
Dpreview has some of the worst reviews
In the first place, most reviewers have acclaimed the jpeg quality. Second, whoever uses jpegs should never perform any operation on them without converting them first to a lossless format. Third, these cameras are not in competition with the D610 or the 6D. They are entirely different kinds of cameras providing an entirely different and superior experience.
Nobody asked you to make sense! 🙂
actually dpreview has the industry BEST and most recognized reviews. They take months and take thousands pictures before coming up with their reviews. It is opposite or losers like Steve Huff who writes a review after spending 24 hours with the camera. Dpreview is the best and more respected photography review site in the world and has been so for many years. By the way many Sony camearas got great reviews that earned gold stars (NEX-7 for examples) from dpreview. FYI
They are pure garbage, They take any camera and give it to one of the stooges to snap pictures of their family. They basically rated the a7 and a7R as point and shoot camera. No they are not great at that.
The only review they might get somewhere near right is for … yup … a point and shoot camera.
I really don’t care for DPR reviews, since they’ve always been quite biased towards N & C ( or just against Sony? ). I sometimes like to read them only to see the tests tech data and specs. Their final conclusions “Pros and Cons” is sometimes a (bad) joke, just nit-picking to justify their opinion. IMHO DPR reviews would be much more valued if they just didn’t have that “conclusion” and limited themselves in reporting the tests description and data!
+1
Dont forget, they have to please their readers as well, if they say Sony just made C and N pooped, it’ll be blasphemy!
They switched recently. Now they’re pro-m4/3.
Olympus to be specific. That’s not all, it feels like more and more websites are taken over…
http://soundimageplus.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/dpreview-did-they-do-their-sony-a7.html?m=1
+1
I enjoy reading his articles as it seems very honest and pretty much reflect his dilemma (see his to sell or not to sell m4/3rd camera. LOL)
Seriously? Their images along from their reviews aren’t that great. Mounds of technical information and great forums. Reviews on the other hand need serious help in the imaging department.
Ever since I’ve seen their X-pro 1 results with much less detail than EM5 results (and even LX5 results, when I checked afterwards), and had those results used by some M43 fanboy to insist that M43 is somehow the superior format, I tend to take their reviews with a huge chunk of salt.
Yeah, two or three years ago dpreview was decent, lately it seems like the µ43 and especially the Olympusfanboys have taken over…
Best reviews? Haha! The reason why people tend to bother with them is that they have an exhaustive library of reviews, i.e. they review plenty of cameras, so it is convenient for some quick and dirty comparisons or checking specs. That’s it.
Its a good review. Most reviews to date have just blown hot air up Sony’s A$$. Its nice to see the A7 get a serious review from, a credible publication.
Of course the A77, and A99 did score higher, but they’re real cameras and not squeaker toys.
How is it a “squeaker toy”? Same sensor as A99 and D800, respectively. Are they squeaker toys?
Everytime I read squeaker toy in your postings I laugh my asss off. Hilarious.
Yeah old stubborn guys that hog the mirror like you will be sure to go extinct soon.
Aren’t A7/A7r point-n-shoot cameras without native fast glass?
Aren’t DSLRs oversized point-and-shoot cameras with mirrors?
At least they got some glass to use 😉
dpreview is internationally renowned and honored for providing the most profound and unbiased camera tests. I check various camera test sites but always get back to dpreview as they are the only ones who really try to report unprejudiced and to cover all aspects of the camera in a complete way of report.
This site here is far from being unbiased as it is a Sony fan site and whatever product Sony would throw in the marked, you would always praise it over all other products.
You mean like how they gave the Canon SL1 a gold award? Or the GM1?
Dpreview?
My FOOT!
Jpegs losing quality when edited and saved made them give the camera a lower rating. Is this a joke? I can understand if they had said Sony’s IDC doesn’t do a good job of converting raws but out of camera jpegs from the most highend cameras is a no no.
This is what the manufacturers have to deal with… incompetent review sites making claims like these to generate traffic.
Why do you think they are incompetent? Might be they e.g. gain % from sales of Nikon cameras like KR does.
“Cause Nikon and Canon JPEG didn’t lose quality after edited and resaved” 😉
I’m never quite sure why DPReview so much play is made over JPEG performance on cameras of this class. Quite simply, if you are after the best image quality, you don’t use JPEGs. If you are just after quick snapshot results, then ultimate quality is surely not the aim, so why micro analyse? The idea of actually using out-of-camera JPEGs as the basis of any sophisticated image manipulation (other than basic cropping) is quite mad.
The reason why you don’t use JPEGs for best quality is that, by it’s very nature, it throws away information. It’s the equivalent of keeping the prints from an automatic printing machine and throwing away the negatives.
If people care about IQ, and they buy FF cameras and wildly expensive lenses to capture the best quality, then simply don’t expect JPEGs to make the best use of your investment. It’s not as if post-processing with products like Lightroom is difficult. Indeed the process is identical whether, whatever format you use. About the only thing that may differ is where in-camera processing of JPEGs deals with things like vignetting and that isn’t automatically carried over to third-party raw processors (although even that difference is disappearing).
JPEGs were never designed master output – they came about as means of viewing images with lower storage requirements.
For a long time, dpreview compared all cameras, from P&Ss to high end pro DSLRs in the default JPEG settings. whenever people asked why not raw, the reviewers responded with one of the worst technical explanation by saying default JPEGs level the playing field or something. Like you said, no one who cares about image quality enough will shoot JPEGs.
Reluctantly dpreview had to give in when other but more competent review sites came about. But still dpreview is like trying to justify their old ways by putting so much importance to JPEGs.
True and their jpeg DR comparisons still baffle me the most. They’re just comparing tone curves. Having all that DR captured by a sensor can be great as you have the choice how to compress it. The key being in that last part of the sentence…
Having 13 stops of DR in a single shot, displayed on paper or your regular IPS monitor, is recipe for… flat images/dullness.
….because your output medium will not cover the range to begin with.
agreed
Sony should improve their JPEG engine. It was said over and over here and not by me.
The silver award will cut a big chunk from Sony sales of the A7.
No it won’t. .. we’re mostly talking about people putting down a substantial amount of money on a new type of camera… not people reading just one site to pick up a point and shoot for the weekend trip.
There are many review sites out there. Dpreview may be the biggest but the others aren’t hidden. And others have more convincing reviews.
Exactly. Also, what’s the competition? There is none! There’s nothing else in this class of camera at near this price. Review sites like this like to keep comparing it to the 6D or the D610, but honestly, someone who’s looking for a full DSLR isn’t looking at the A7(r), and someone looking at the A7(r) isn’t looking for a big DSLR.
Yeah, tell it to these people regarding the JPEG compression, I don’t necessarily agree with Gordon in some of his points, but coming to the A7r from NEX 7 and previously a Nikon D300s, I can safely say that Sony JPEG is as good or even better then Nikon.
Quoted from dCartier commment:
Gordon Laing:
“…the out-of-camera JPEGs from the A7 looked superior to the 5D3, at lower sensitivities anyway. In the 20-24 Megapixel class, I’d say the A7 is an excellent performer.”
Imaging Resource is even more emphatic:
“Sony seems to have finally gotten a handle on their in-camera JPEG processing, to the extent that they now lead the field, in our estimation.”
“The silver award will cut a big chunk from Sony sales of the A7.”
> Comments today are really hilarious.
“We’re hoping that a firmware upgrade can address at least some of these issues.”
DPReviewers, you are in for some disappointment.
Yep. Don’t rely on a firmware upgrade to fix anything.
Who still shoots JPEG’s on their full-frame cameras? That’s like buying a V10 Lamborghini and slapping on some hard plastic tires. The sample JPEG pics from the Sony A7 does look pretty bad, but the test is mostly irrelevant for the demographic of photographers shooting full-frame.
As a reference, DPreview gave the Canon 5D Mark II only a 79% and the 5D Mark III a 82%. That tells you what they know.
The Sony A7 is revolutionary and the camera industry is populated by conservative, slow thinking men. It is still clinging onto DSLR’s like they clung on to 35mm Film Cameras.
I could care less about OOC JPEG quality, but there is certainly no consensus on the issue –
Gordon Laing:
“…the out-of-camera JPEGs from the A7 looked superior to the 5D3, at lower sensitivities anyway. In the 20-24 Megapixel class, I’d say the A7 is an excellent performer.”
Imaging Resource is even more emphatic:
“Sony seems to have finally gotten a handle on their in-camera JPEG processing, to the extent that they now lead the field, in our estimation.”
the jpegs from the camera can be adjusted in camera. the saturation contrast and sharpness of any color mode can be adjusted. Even when I had my a700 I adjusted the jpegs and they did not look bad at all until I reached higher iso. It looks like they are just looking for a excuse not to give it the gold. I wonder what they will say about the fuji x-t1 which I am thinking of getting to go along with my A7.
you should share some of your photos with a7r 😀
is the a7(r) auto ISO really no better than on my nex 5? if so, this is indeed a big disappointment.
So basically they don’t like the A7 because:
1. You need to buy a $50 official charger or $10 knockoff to avoid plugging the camera in to charge it.
2. You can’t control minimum shutter speed in Aperture priority mode, and have to use manual mode with auto ISO to set whatever shutter speed you want, a simple task if there ever was one.
3. The jpegs have too much noise reduction, which can, um, be turned off in the menu
4. The default controls are bad, but can be easily customized
5. No built-in flash, despite the vast majority of FF bodies not having one.
6. New, high-performing lenses are expensive.
What an awful camera indeed!
You realize they gave it their Silver “Award” not a silver turd. An award is an accolade.
It is no secret that Sony’s menu options/firmware are in need of improvement and the a7 is not immune to it. Some of the menu options (and lack therof) on the a99 boggle the mind. When we whine about it…nothing happens. When DP Review dissects it, perhaps someone somewhere at Sony will at least consider it.
I’m happy to see menu / firmware taken seriously.
The NEX-7 gets a gold award and the A7 silver? How does that make any sense? However, it doesn’t matter, the review is not good enough, even though it might make a few valid points.
+1 Totally agree Victor. Nothing in that review (and my experience of the camera and image quality) made me think I bought the wrong camera….
Haven’t you used your camera? Even if they called it the worst thing man kind ever did, would it make a difference to how it works for you?
+1 Victor
I own the A7 with Sony Zeiss 35mm 2.8. Now, who is the competition in the FF mirror less camera – it’s not canon nor nikon – those a FF DSLR and huge monsters. It is Leica M series at less than 1/4 of the cost.
Who shoots in JPEG with this camera – RAW + JPEG if you want to wirelessly upload to FB or Flick but people also use Aperture or LR to post process – simple and fun.
Regarding settings – you have to learn the menus.
For street and night/indoors – I use this as custom preset
1. Set 2 presets
2. Set to M mode
3. Set min apererture (eg F2.8 depending on lens)
4. Set min shutter (1/100 or 1/125)
5. Set Auto ISO (results good up to ISO3200 – acceptable up to ISO 6400 on FF)
6. Set Focus Area – Wide (yes, for night street shooting it is faster than flexible spot L/M)
7. Diable Focus Illumination (faster AF, and the light is bright if shooting indoors people subjects)
8. I like DMF – ability to manual focus after SF
9. Set Focus Peaking to H (Yellow in my case)
10. RAW or RAW+JPEG (for Social/Wifi upload)
The above presets for me enable to do street shooting on my A7 without 1/60 which gives blurry shots and other focus settings allow for faster autofocus with ability to fast manual focus, if needed. I like to shoot people. I found the default settings took longer to hunt for autofocus ruining the moment, drain battery faster and also reduces blurry out of focus shots.
Lastly, the v2 of the time-lapse app is great and worth $10. I like the ability to update.
Request for Sony is to have a PlayMemories app for Windows Phone 8 – the Nokia Lumia 1020 is an awesome camera phone and having the app to pair with A7 is the killer mobile camera combo
Thanks
What’s the changes for timelapse v2?
I heard one of the requested feature is ability to change exposure during the timelapse?
Coincidently, I read this review earlier today so I figured it would be generating a lot of buzz here.
I agree with Admin that these are game-changing but the a7R far more, IMHO, than the a7. Digital Photography Review confirms my understanding that the ‘budget’ a7 is a big step down from its big brother. The a7R is very impressive and I expect it to do much better in DP Review. That said the big shoe to drop is to see if Sony offers us amateur a-mounters something even more compelling later this year.
Usually the e-mount crowd is thumbing their nose at us a-mounters but if you read all the gnashing of teeth from e-mounters that the Tammy 150-600mm drops stabilization for Sony, you can see where I’m going. IBIS is a sore point for me. Sure, I’m sure Sony will be happy to sell me with lenses OSS but it’ll cost me thousands to rebuild a FE system. No thanks. Won’t happen.
If Sony ultimately disappoints with future FF announcements – which is likely since they appear to hate the a-mount – I might be forced to the a7R but many of its gains (e.g., better ISO) will be offset by no IBIS. I might be better off cutting my losses with Sony and going with a DSLR system with a better (for me) future like Nikon.
Tamron & Sigma dropping IS for a-mount lenses is also a problem for a-mount video shooters.
AFAIK, all A-mount cameras have SSI ( steady shot inside ) so IMHO that’s a non-issue. I have the Tammy 200-500, Sony 70-200/2.8 SSM G, Sony 70-300/4.5-5.6 SSM G among others and they all work fine without OSS and with my A99’s SSI ( as the A77, A65, A55, A700… before them did ).
Steady shot for video mode is digital not optical / mechanical. It zooms in and there is a huge hit in video quality. So…yeah IS in lens will be helpful for a-mount video shooters.
“confirms my understanding that the ‘budget’ a7 is a big step down from its big brother”
If you’re only looking at pure IQ opportunity then yes, the A7 is a step down. But there are trade-offs to be made with either camera. The R nets you 22% more resolution and more Mg, but at the cost of losing EFCS, reduced flash sync speed, loss of PDAF, and increased color shift using adapted lenses.
It’s based on reviews I’ve read. Ironically, some have found the a7R’s AF works better than the a7’s even though it’s counter-intuitive based upon the specs. But my main point is based upon IQ because at the end of the day that’s at the top of any punch list.
I would love to know how the A7 is a big step down from the A7r. The only thing that A7r has is sharper images with a larger sensor which most people don’t need and is slightly more metal than plastic which is not noticeable. Neither camera is a big step up or down from each other besides the the mega pixel count and even that is not a big deal unless your printing something you want to see from space.
I meant larger mega pixels not sensor
Come on, that’s the D800 syndrom all over again. How is the a7r more of a game changer than the a7? Just because it has a somewhat better sensor?
It’s not what I meant. The a7/a7R are ‘game changers’ because they’re inexpensive (by FF standards) FF mirrorless bodies tied into the old NEX line-up. What I was saying is the cheaper a7 is a step down, IMHO, from the a7R in performance.
If it’s your money go buy an a7. Buy two of ’em if you think the difference are so slight. Fine with me. 🙂
“the cheaper a7 is a step down, IMHO, from the a7R in performance.”
That is precisely what I don’t understand. While I would personally be interested in the a7r, because of my needs, I’d say that the a7 is simply the significantly more versatile and more interesting camera overall, simply based on features and price. What I meant by D800 syndrom is that the camera is simply another DSLR with just a noticeably better sensor 🙂
Surprise!!!(not)
Smudges detail??? What!!! Blind dpreview, are you picking hx-50v for a7?
I thought the review was pretty good even though they are biased towards prosumer users with all this JPEG stuff. Sony did rush this camera market but will probably do a much better job on version 2 with a new sensor that will basically crush the competition. What I’m out shooting with my A7r I get stopped every five minutes by other photographers asking about the camera. The size and quality of the optics is definitely a winning combination. Sony needs to do firmware updates to address many of the concerns that we have and if they don’t it will be serious for them. It’s the best little camera I’ve ever owned and that’s good enough for me.
Hmm, how did this camera got rushed to the market?
Cause it certainly didn’t have many flaws that are non fixable by firmware (anyone remembers the NEX 7 overheat video problem?)
The battery is probably a management decision rather then an engineers decision as they can easily fit a larger capacity battery if they wanted to. I’m hoping that if Sony do improve the battery, they’ll retain the same size and connection as the current one so users don’t have to throw away all their lower capacity batteries in favour of newer ones (this will be a first for the camera industry as they like to make you buy new batteries for each new camera)
Does anybody have a real problem with the battery life? I used the Camera plus the grip for a 2 days concert shooting and the camera would have done at least a third day with the 2 batteries in the grip. Do we need a battery that goes for a week without getting charged? Not sure…..buy a second one and have it in the camera bag.
I have 2 batteries, not getting the battery grip yet as I’m not shooting many portrait orientated shots or long events yet.
From my usage, I estimate that 1 battery will last roughly 1 day. So yeah, it’s not really a deal breaker but having a spare is a must.
But I’ll have to admit that the battery bar drops really fast compared to a DSLR (my guess is DSLR only needs to power on the display which is not turned on most of the time vs a mirrorless camera where it needs to power on the EVF most of the time)
Let’s see the camera was released with two lenses available, shutter implementation mediocre at best and raw processing problems which indicates to me lack of testing and rushing to market.
I, as an a7 owner, pretty much agree with the review and score. It simply doesn’t deserve gold award. There are so many small and bigger issues with the control and interface of this camera that could be fixed by single programmer in one day, but will never get fixed, -because “sony”. Auto iso with minimum shutter speed setting is quite literally one “if” function in software, and it hasn’t been done since my a200… Many reviewers speak of broad customisation of controls, but the fact is, most if not all of those are completely useless, and the ones that could be useful are not there! I can set exp compensation onto the top wheels (wtf?), but can’t do that with iso, I can assign a button to make it send images to smartphone, but can’t do that for send to computer! I can assign a button to turn off lcd screen, but it is not actually turning it off! There is no available assignment for a button to switch from lcd to evf and back. I have to click twice to get magnified view, god knows why, as I could just move the magnified view around when zoomed in, and also it takes bloody damn long to move it because each click moves it by a milimeter. Speaking of slow, it takes ages to change previewed photo when zoomed in, a feature that on nikon cameras is so useful to go through similar shots – looking for the sharpest take, is implemented so badly here, that it becomes useless. The peaking function is cool and all, but come’on, it’s been like what, 2years since they introduced it? It should have been improved and iterated upon with each camera release.
And while I could go on with my rants, it’s still the best camera I’ve had, because it’s the camera that I will have on me. It’s better than d700-d800, because with lens it’s a kilo lighter, and it’s better than m4/3 because IQ.
I just wish Sony would hire some competent, and thoughtful software development leader.. I’m sure it would get gold awards left and right then.
Anyone else thinks alike?
Hmm, gold awards…if I’m not mistaken the A7/r pretty much got most of it except from DPr, feel free to show me others.
But yeah, Sony desperately need a thoughtful software development leader, they might make impressive hardware but a product is only as good as its weakest link and in many cases, Sony software is holding them back.
You own, use and love the camera, yet you’re able of being lucid about its flaws, my hat of to you, 99% can’t do that
I 100% agree with you here. This is the most frustrating thing.. it’s like the designers don’t use the camera. So many small trivial fixes that aren’t acted up. Like on my nex, to access exposure compensation, I first have to press down on the control dial for no reason at all.
Does the A99 get better auto ISO?
Sony a7 and a7r shine in their own category. There is no camera to compare to except perhaps Leica. And we all know which one is the winner there. And because of that a7 gets the silver award.
Gold award? That goes to a7r. Just wait and see. They simply can not give gold awards to both models.
I think some reviewer actually commented that the A7/r sits in a quite unique position when it comes to reviews cause it’s either compared to DSLR or a m4/3rd and depending on which product it’s compared to. The pros and cons will be very different. For eg:
vs DSLR
Pros
– small
– lightweight
– small lenses
Cons
– bad battery life
– ergonomic not as good
vs m4/3rd
Pros
– great ergonomics
– superb image quality
– superb image quality at High ISO
Cons
– heavy lenses which negates the benefit of small sized body camera
– expensive lens
Oh, and how could I forgot to add this biggest con when compared to m4/3rd
Cons
– no IBIS!
which is negated by the fact it is FF. Every person praising the IBIS on the olympus keeps forgetting that it is because the smaller sensor they are able to do it so well and it is because the small sensor it needs it. Not to say they can not squeeze a IBIS into A7 but at $1600? maybe in the next generations. Personally I have too much gear as it is to give a crap, I will wait to see how fast and small Sony/Zeiss make those faster lenses before upgrading. If I did not sell all my summicrons I will get the A7 in a heart beat. So glad I got rid of my used m9 prior to A7 launch.
Yeah, it seems when it comes to the IBIS vs no-IBIS argument people forgot the engineering constraints and the difficulty it comes to fit IBIS into the A7/r when these cameras are the same size as an EM-1 which has a much smaller sensor.
Maybe the next generation once they figure out how shrink the IBIS module even more.
FF negates IBIS? I see you chosen your nick right – lol.
Small is a pro? Since when? Go out when it’s cold and try to use a small camera. Or get yourself a tele lens (or even super-zoom) and than try to balance it out.
It’s a disadvantage, not an advantage.
Oh, wait, you can’t cause there are no bright teles or superzooms for A7…
Eh…. these glorified P&Ss.
DPReview rates the A7 ‘silver’ due to poor jpeg engine performance.
In other breaking news, DPReview awarded the Ferrari 458 Spider a ‘silver’ rating due to a lack of travel mug cup holders.
Hehehe… I don’t know, but I think the A7 brothers have the best Sony JPEG engine ever.
Haha!
I don’t care about the ranking – I just enjoy my A7r with all my vintage manual lenses. The AutoIso issue and the 1/60 can be addressed (at least with manual lenses) by shooting in Manual mode. You can set the time, set the Aperture and the camera adjusts the Iso. Works well for me and gives me easy control.
No idea about the Jpeg performance – I never tried it, just RAW.
Do you process all the photos you took? Cause if you don’t, you should give the A7r JPEG a try, it’s really good if you’re not planning to do any adjustments to your photo 😉
BTW, if you read their pros and cons in the conclusion section, they are absolutely right about everything, especially the cons, I had the camera for almost 2 months and been shooting with it daily, it has a lot of departments need to get improved, I wish Sony can release firmware update to improve the AF, it’s far from being fast, and in low light even the focus peaking is useless and you have to magnify.
Start up time (Slow)
File writing (Slow)
Battery life (Sucks)
Lack of charger (Sucks)
Native software (I didn’t bother to install)
Cannot turn the damned LCD off and use it for preview (Sucks big time)
Video (Nowhere near Canons and Panas if you wanna edit)
Menus (They just have to hire someone from Canon)
but then….
Image Qaulity (Marvelous)
Size and weight (No Competition)
Ergonomics (At the top of mirrorless pyramid)
The bottom line is, dpreview haven’t said anything wrong as they didn’t mention anything bad about the image quality of this beast, in fact, here is what they wrote at the end:
Good for:
Those seeking a full-frame sensor in a small body, determined third-party and historic lens owners, video enthusiasts, and social media mavens
Not so good for:
JPEG shooters, Auto ISO users, and photographers who want to quickly capture a moment
I am not a JPG shooter neither an Auto ISO user.
I Never Regret buying the A7.
+1
I can’t believe they still haven’t fixed the not-so-auto ISO, but at least I get this option in M mode unlike full manual only in M mode on NEX-7.
I wonder who is right and http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/dslrmagazine-sony-a7r-vs-nikon-d800-and-a7-vs-leica-m-test-sony-has-the-best-jpg-results/
people need to stop whining. the A7 is a great camera. But it has flaws, some of which are seen as major flaws by those who are used to SLR cameras. Sony are much better served by this kind of review than by the fanboy reviews seen all over this place.
And JPEG image quality matters. If the RAW files are excellent then why shouldn’t the JPEGs be as well? We all know RAW is better if you need to get that last little bit out of the sensor but JPEG has other advantages. Saying that all true photo enthusiasts use RAW is mostly just silly and ignorant
Wait….
“We’re hoping that a firmware upgrade can address at least some of these issues.” from Sony ?????
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha……
We have worst problems with JPG with A77 until today.
They wont fix the JPEG engine, that’s pretty much certain.
But they did fix (not all) the NEX 7 and if I recalled, the NEX 5 as well. So they might be a few firmware updates on the A7/r to improve on certain features, though don’t put your hopes up XD
Dpreview has writtn a very “strict” review of a Sony cam…perhaps because the A7 will appeal to a lot of non-Sony users?
e.g the A99 has the same iso auto behaviour as the A7 and until this review, they never made such a big deal of it. (I would also prefer a menu item to select a “floor” iso as a minimum but that’s not my point here…)
I believe they made 1 big mistake by saying the following:
“What was interesting was that while the a7 did not observe the traditional 1/focal range guide for selecting shutter speeds with FE lenses, it did with A-mount lenses attached with the LA-E3 adapter. We were unable to experiment with the FE-mount 70-200mm F4 lens, as it’s not yet available.”
I think they gave the answer themselves with the last sentence, as (I really hope…) the A7 DOES follow the 1/ focal lenght rule but they couldn’t because of the lack of lenses going further than 70mm. 24-70, 28-70, 35 and 55 at this moment…I make good use of this 1/ FL rule, so it would be a big mistake of Sony if this would be lost now. But I think it is still there: on the A99, 69mm (appr.) gives 1/60 shutter speed, at 70mm, is elevates the iso to obtain 1/80.
Indeed it never goes below 1/60, that is normal on a Sony. (used to be even lower on the early sony cams)
2 questions for the A7 owners:
-Does the 28-70 give 1/80 at 70mm? (69mm is not enough to make the switch to 1/80)
-Can someone test a NEX lens on the A7 and see whether the 1/FL rule (and a bit more due to the crop factor) is followed on the A7(r?) please? 🙂
If it does, Dpreview probably got it a bit wrong with the first part of the quote (unfortunately, it shows that using a sony camera once in a while is not enough to make good review… 🙂
JPEG quality disappointing compared to peers – crude sharpening, over-aggressive processing and occasional posterization <– what is it that most testers have problems with the jpeg engine? just turn noise reduction off. it produces much(!) better results than my 5D III does
Exposure compensation and rear scroll wheel too easy to accidentally bumped <– i never bumped any wheel on any camera i possesed. i will never understand why people do that. as a result of such claims, fuji tighted the wheel on the xe-2 to such an extent that it is a pain in the a** to operate (at least for me).
Funny, you featured a camera comparison a short while ago, by DSLRmagazine, that suggested the Sonys had the best Jpeg engine?
Hmm, too much pixel peeping going on here and not enough skill with a camera, from either source, by the sound of it!
I don´t get it… Is there really anybody out there, that buys a camera for 1400€ (and probably lenses for another 1000€) and then uses jpg?
Some people shoot RAW & jpg because they are shooting very large numbers of pictures and don’t have the time to do the post-production on all of them (ie: weddings, press, etc)and only resort to RAW where the picture needs more careful handling.
Asa a general approach, most serious shooters only shoot RAW but not always.
Yes, tons of people. Heck: I could argue that majority of people buying Nikon D4 will shoot JPG most of the time – and that runs for 6000$ body only.
Game changing? No. A good camera? At least not a bad one. An excellent imaging sensor? Yes!
Sony tries a lot to stand up against Canikon. So far they didn’t in the interchangeable lens camera department. And they won’t with the A7/r until they have a system behind it. I know some Canon shooters who added a A7r simply because the sensor is so good (not the camera as a whole). And that’s the issue: The moment canon comes up with something that can compete with this Sony sensor many will drop the A7r again.
Until today Sony think that a camera is only a sensor, the rest is only accessory.
Professional support, lenses, compatibility are dispensable.
In my opinion, the review was fair and well balanced and so the silver award seems to be as generous as they could be in the circumstances.
The list of Cons is alarmingly long for fans of the A7/7r but that is of no real concern to me as I have no intention of buying one.
The only interesting point I feel the need to make is; why does the Panasonic GM1 get gold with a score of 78% and the A7 get silver with a score of 80% – I don’t get that! I think the silver award is fair for the A7 but in that case the GM1 should also be silver.
Totally agreed Eric. TBH: With all these issues I’m surprised why the camera got silver award. That’s an award for a low body price, isn’t it? Shame that the lenses aren’t as competitively priced as a body which makes low body price rather a moot point.
Oh, and the awards they give are not based on a percentage score, but rather market significance as well as opinion of the reviewers. Awards are more subjective, percentage score is more objective (though still not 100% objective – after all you can’t really score ergonomics fully objectively).
So auto-ISO in Sony cameras gets a light spanking once again. I have to agree.
It sounds like the same implementation as in my a99. Auto ISO in A mode can be quite maddening when the camera prioritises 1/60 before bumping the ISO. 1/60 ISO 200 is not suitable for freezing motion except for the very slowest moving subjects. With the ISO performance of these newer cams, I’d much prefer 1/250 ISO800.
All they need to do is to allow us to set a minimum shutter speed for autoISO. (Just like Nikon)
Allowing autoISO in M mode is a big step forward. I can now set 1/250 F4 and shoot away letting the ISO “float” providing the light is relatively consistent.
However, this still has drawbacks. On a recent trip to the woods, it was bright and sunny in the open but still very dark under the dense tree canopy. I wanted to to shoot wide open. 1/100 f2.8 ISO1600 was appropriate in the dark bit. In the sunlight, the camera couldn’t set an appropriate ISO for 1/100 f2.8 (ISO was flashing in the VF) so I still had to keep tweaking the shutter speed up and down.
Had this been in a Nikon style Auto ISO in A mode, I could have set min shutter speed to 1/200 in the autoISO menu, f2.8 on A mode and I would have been given a range of shutter speeds, from fast enough in the bright light but still 1/200 in the darker areas. The Sony A mode in this situation would cope well for
The bright area but set 1/60 in the dark – lower noise but pictures of motion blurred children.
Surely all the Sony cameras could have a little tweak to allow this autoISO tuning.
Hmmm
What nobody told about dpreview is that they said that the A7 has actually 11 bit RAW even Sony claims it to be 14 bit. If this is true then I agree with Rockwell that this is a toy camera (even I don’t like Rockwell lately). And the biggest JPG faut seems to be the posterization, which again is a big minus considering it’s a FF camera and not a MFT one.
The reality is that review outfits like dpr and such have become increasing irrelevant (does anyone buy phones based on their reviews? Their big thing nowadays.)
SAR has more impact.
The enormous interest in the rumors leading up to the debut of A7/7R and the preorders attest to that fact. Most sales are done within a few weeks, prior to these reviews and definitely shakes up the market.
Cheers, Andrea and keep up the good work! 🙂
I have to agree – i read most reviews on that site when picking the a7r finally – and really found a lot of stuff he said didnt add up – especially when you look at the comparison shot camera by camera..
I do agree that I didnt use their reviews to make a choice as I frankly didnt trust them to be what I needed to use.
But unfortunately they are the most indepth.
Sony insists with raw compression lossy
The 1/60sec thing with Auto ISO / A mode is annoying – but they really latch onto like one irritation and pound on it.
Anyone remember the video button on the NEX-7. So many reviewers were like “it’s a great camera, but OMG that video button ruins it”
We know that Sony JPEGs and lossy RAWs suck. So, that’s valid, but these reviews are just torture to read anymore for any camera.
I got myself an A7 for Xmas and I love it. Its giving my great photos. The only two major annoyances I have with it are the location of the menu button and the jpeg engine isn’t great. With the former it means you always need two hands when navigating the menus. I’ve found a few instances where this has been a serious inconvenience.
With the cameras jpeg’s I have experienced fairly bad posterisation in the sky when I’ve shot landscapes with a graduated filter over a rich deep blue sky. I’ve had to apply gaussian blur over it in photoshop to get rid of it. Something I’d rather not have to do. Most of the time I do shoot RAW files but occasionally I’ve wanted to shoot jpeg’s and the posterisation has been annoying.
Other than that I found that Dpreview article to be fairly nit picking. They’ve definitely drawn out things for criticism I haven’t had a problem with or just haven’t even noticed. Like any camera once you get used to it pretty much anything to do with it becomes second nature. I’ve gotten used to controlling my A7 far faster than I ever did my A700 or NEX 5N. Maybe because its a convergence of both those cameras in some aspects.
Anyway like I said before I’m getting some great shots with my A7. I’ve owned and used a Minolta 7000 and 9000 then a KM 7D, Sony A7 and NEX 5N. The A7 seemed like a natural progression for me and I can use all my old film era lenses. The A7 is the best camera I’ve ever owned.
People using this type of camera don`t buy it to shoot jpeg… what is dpreview reviwers thinking????
I own A7 and the only real issue I noticed is the slow startup and battery life.
And if you shoot RAW you have 11 bit not 14 like Sony claims (a marketing hype that Sony uses for some time). Even MFT like the E-M1 has 12 bit RAW!
So it’s not for amateurs that shoot primarly jpg and it’s not for pros that need the best raw available. Prosumers? Maybe, but there are better options out there considering that Sony has only 3 native lenses for the A7 and the rest are being postponed and postponed…
@Andy. The joy of these cameras, like the NEX series, is fitting 3rd party lenses to them. Now at last you can do it with a full frame camera. The criticism that there are only 3 native lenses for the A7’s is utterly lost on me. I’ve got loads of great lenses for mine anyway.
Just count the lenses, µ43 started with.
@Rodrigo. People buying this type of camera for for a lot of money expect all the functions of it to work well. Its pretty much a professional level camera. The fact of the matter is the JPEG engine should be better especially taking into consideration the quality of the rest of the camera. Its just strange to me that my old 5N actually out performs my A7 as far as shooting JPEG’s is concerned. Some people do like to shoot JPEG’s, for various reasons, so I can completely see why Dpreview would draw the camera out there for criticism. A lot of its other points seemed unfairly critical though. The battery life isn’t great but batteries are cheap and anyone who goes out shooting with a high powered camera and only takes one battery with them is bonkers.
I’ve noticed the start up lag can be a couple of seconds but Dpreview saying you could miss a shot because of it seems a bit extreme.
Really? I find pre-A7/r, Sony JPEG engine is atrocious, I only shoot RAW because of how bad their JPEG engine was. I previously owned both Canon and Nikon, I liked Nikon JPEG more then Canon and Sony, however the A7/r changed that and to me at least, it’s on par or better then Nikon JPEGs
Having also read also their comment on manual focusing (which I happily use on my NEX7) I think these reviewer cannot be considered serious photographers.
I by now take their recommendations the contrarian way: this review has convinced me to buy (the A7R)
I have a suggestion:
Could they please append to each review the detailed list of their conflicts of interest?
I’m a fan of Sony’s innovative approach to cameras. But I haven’t owned a Sony camera in many years. If I hadn’t switched to Nikon/Canon I never would have been able to do action street photography. I would love to have a Sony, and there are several I would have bought, if they had faster AF and more general refinement.
It’s reviews like this that help Sony be able to compete better against Nikon/Canon. Right now there is a smaller set of shooters that Sony can satisfy. And they would like their choices confirmed. This is human nature.
But there are far more of us who say: Hmm. This is innovative. I would like this. If only it worked for me a little better. If only the system were more developed. If only one felt confident Sony would continue to develop and improve this, unlike the R1 and the f828.
I have read many reviews and held the A7/A7r in my hands. I would love it to work for me. This kind of review can only be helpful in pointing Sony in the right direction.
@ Frank Dobbs. Just out of interest why don’t you think the A7’s will work for you? I can see why they’re not good for sports or high action photography but I use my A7 for street photography and get great results. Low light autofocus is good and I can’t say I’ve ever missed a shot because it hasn’t been fast enough. The reviewers that have drawn out poor autofocus on the A7 for criticism have been fairy over critical I’d say. It may not be the fastest out there but its still fast and accurate enough, though probably not for sports photography.
The best way if you want to change a system is to wait for the second generation of bodies considering you are using a reliable and good system that gets the job done.
See the Nikon D600-D610 or the Fuji X-E1-X-E2.
I’m sure that the next generation of FF Sony cameras (2-3 years from now) will be great and you’ll have all the FE lenses to choose from (and see which are good and which are not so good).