A nice set of M-mount lenses by SLRclub.
Again sorry if we keep talking about the A7-A7r but there are so many new tests and reviews every day! I will post new rumors very soon don’t worry. Here are the latest A7-A7r news:
Frank Doorhof posted the first part of the A7r review.
The Korean site SLRclub posted the full a7r review. There is no english translation avaialable but plenty of pictures to see! The Chinese a7/a7r operation manual is up at Sony Service.
Gordon Laing from Cameralabs put up ISO sets for both A7 and A7R cameras–
A7: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cameralabs/sets/72157637073134235/with/10549750395/
A7R: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cameralabs/sets/72157637074346453/with/10550136223/
David: “I have startet a group on Flickr for photos shot with a7r and a7. http://www.flickr.com/groups/2335287@N24/”
Stefano: “I want just to segnalate you a comparison in size between A7-A7R and Minolta 7000: http://stefanovisona.it/2013/11/sony-a7-a7r-vs-minolta-7000/”
Anders: “Not sure if you’re interested in a first impressions blog of A7r, written in Swedish, but here I go anyway 🙂
http://www.fotosidan.se/blogs/afe/vem-f-n-platar-tegelvaggar-jag.htm
The images (all jpg since LR won’t handle the A7r files yet) can be found at:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/aferiksson/sets/72157629606327368/“
Specs and Preorders in US and Canada (Click on store name to see direct preorder page):
Dedicated Sony announcement page at Amazon US (Click here).
Sony A7r body at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS. TheCameraStore Canada.
Sony A7 body at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS. TheCameraStore Canada.
Sony A7 with 28-70mm kit lens at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS. TheCameraStore Canada.
Sony RX10 at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
Zeiss 24-70mm at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
Zeiss 35mm at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
Zeiss 55mm at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
70-200mm A-mount at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
Sony A-Mount to E-Mount Lens Adapter at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto.
Sony A to E adapter with mirror at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto.
A7/A7r leather case at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
A7/A7r vertical grip at Amazon, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
Sony W Series Battery Charger at Amazon, BHphoto.
Sony FA-CS1M Off-Camera Shoe at BHphoto.
Semi-Hard LCD Screen Protector for A7-A7r at Amazon, BHphoto.
Specs and Preorders in Europe:
Sony A7r body at Sony DE, UK, FR, IT, ES, NL, BE, CH, AT, SE, FI, NO, PT, WexUK, WexDE.
Sony A7 body at Sony DE, UK, FR, IT, ES, NL, BE, CH, AT, SE, FI, NO, PT, WexUK, WexDE, Amazon UK, Amazon DE, Amazon FR.
Sony A7 with 28-70mm kit Sony DE, UK, FR, IT, ES, NL, BE, CH, AT, SE, FI, NO, PT, WexUK, WexDE, Amazon UK, Amazon DE, Amazon FR.
Sony RX10 at Sony DE, UK, FR, IT, ES, NL, BE, CH, AT, SE, FI, NO, PT, WexUK, WexDE.
Zeiss 35mm at Sony DE, UK, FR, IT, ES, NL, BE, CH, AT, SE, FI, NO, PT,
Zeiss 55mm at Sony DE, UK, FR, IT, ES, NL, BE, CH, AT, SE, FI, NO, PT
Asia:
A7r at Digitalrev.
A7 at Digitalrev, Amazon Cina.
A7 with 28-70mm lens at Digitalrev.
76 Responses
Thanks for all of your hard work Andrea but things are a little dull round here at the moment for those of us who are unexcited by the A7 😉
P.s. We have recently seen price drops on the A99 here in the uk after its price had stabilised at the £2000 mark for quite some time. Do you think this is –
a) It was stable because sales were reasonable compared with expectations but are now tailing off
b) R&D costs have now been recouped so now Sony are allowing more freedom on pricing
c) a reaction to the announcement of the A7
d) perhaps a sign of new A mount FF cameras in the not too distant future
There has been rumour of new A mount FF cameras, do you think there is room between the A99 & A77 (or its replacement) for one to slot in, will be higher end, an early replacement for the A99 or a combination of those?
I think Sony will hold off on a new full frame A-Mount offering until they can equal or exceed the current auto focus performance of the SLT design with an on sensor phase focusing system. If that goal of equal or better performance is years away, then they will likely upgrade the A99 (mid/late 2014) with newer and better high megapixel sensor and more powerful image processor.
actually my excitement is slowly coming back… been following nikonrumors lately but it looks like Df won’t be what I though it is – will see, but currently these are the 2 systems I’m considering, DF or A7(r)
At least the Nikon will come with a decent lens choice (i.e. every Nikkor made) rather than the expensive Zeiss v ho-hum Sony glass line-up that Sony offers with every E=mount release.
Do I really want to drop 2k on a body that vaguely resembles a ’60s Eastern Block SLR – and needs lenses from that era (via adaptors) to offer a viable lens system.
Sony needed native lenses at realistic prices to make this fly for me. If Fuji rumours are true, next year might see the first full frame mirrorless with realistically priced prime lenses of quality ….
The A7 offers the same lenses as the Nikon Df and many more – modern and old ones.
I dont understand the adapter phobia 🙂
Many overreacted after reading that lensrentals article about adapters.
… with shallow depth of field and 100% view (or printing on big size) it is really important. For web presentation doesn’t matter.
What is important? There are already thousands of pictures taken with adapters and I have seen many printed. Same as a lens, if you want proper performance, you buy a good quality adapter and you test it. That is what should be taken from the lensrentals article, not that adapters suck.
@Maciej – I’m using cheap Kippon adapter on my X-Pro1 for macro work – don’t see any problems
@Maciej, yes of course every printable image must have an extremely narrow depth of focus and absolutely full frame without any cropping to be acceptable! R I G H T…
The A7 offers much the same as Nex E series. Small bodies without small lenses.
I’ve now given up on Sony introducing any camera with commensurate native lens sizes.
As others have commented, without small lenses, most of Sony’s range lose the ‘small body advantage’ … older/new SLR lenses on cumbersome adaptors or A SLR lenses on adaptors taking the ensemble to DSLR proportions.
No good making small cameras if the lens range does not reflect the ethos. I’m no fan of m4/3 but they do seem to keep lens size in proportion to body size – particularly primes. Fuji X APS bodies – ditto.
What’s Sony’s problem? Too much electronic expertise, not enough optics!
Harebear, why waste your time on these pages if you neither own a nex or anything else? Just to troll?
Some facts:
Nex 5N + SEL18-55: 250+194 = 450 g
Sony A7 + Zeiss 24-70/4 470+426 = 900 g
Canon 6D + 24/70/f4 755 + 600 = 1355 g
Factor of weight between those systems, using 5N as reference 1:
1 : 2 : 3
So the 5N combo weighs 1/3 of the Canon combo.
And the A7 combo weighs twice the 5N combo, but still only 2/3 of the Canon combo. So please stop repeating this nonsense about no weight or size advantage.
@ Crix – I guess that Harebear meant that once you start adding adapters to utilise other lenses, the argument for size and weight diminishes – which in my opinion is very fair argument. Either way you’d need a bag to keep body and a couple or three lenses.
@hexx Except, if we decide to add the adapters into the equation, Harebear’s argument about the ” the expensive Zeiss ho-hum Sony glass line-up” goes out of the window. Can’t have it both ways.
Crix – I do own Nex. Very early adopter actually …
What I don’t like is the lack of suitably sized lenses. I didn’t (will not in case of A7) buy into more of the same … small body/big lens argument.
Why is it someone who fails to share in ‘fanbois’ adoration is deemed a troll? Without those who DO complain, you’d still be eying up the latest Canon D FF behemoth …
Go look at the newly released DF pictures – even Nikon get it now. Body size matches lens – no bulky (or manual adaptors) or relying upon non-native lenses.
So, you are complaining about being a called a ‘troll’, by saying that you simply disagree with ‘fanbois’? Lol. Sure, we should thank you for Sony’s innovation.
Back to real arguments. Which of the NEX lenses aren’t “suitably sized”? I would really like to hear that, because I can think of at least 5 that would fit in this category.
well Vlad – just proved my argument. I was called a troll by someone who a) thought I didn’t own a Nex … and b) simply because I’m not kissing Sony’s ass in gratitude. Then … you join in the critique. Expressing MY oppositional viewpoint is not being a troll – but the accusation and joining in with those who objected to it might possibly be construed as trollish in itself ….
I can’t think of a SONY lens – or any Zeiss/Sony one that matches the body dimensions.
Scale them to DSLR lens/body combo proportions and the relationship is more one of walking around with a 16-35mm – or small telephoto – on a 5d body than a pocket camera.
Bar the Sony 16mm, I can’t think of a Sony NEX lens that fits with the small/compact nature of the bodies. If the NEX/mirrorless concept has validity it is in beating larger body sizes – for equal results – the point of nil return is when that format fails to be realised.
Well, it is probably a waste of time. You wrote:
“I can’t think of a SONY lens – or any Zeiss/Sony one that matches the body dimensions.”
I already listed three different combos and even in weight dimensions you can immediately see that both lens and body weights DID get scaled down. This also applies to the dimensions. What about the 16-50 PZ?
What you are apparently looking for is a compact camera like the RX100.
To hold this against the Nex concept is… strange.
To hold it against the A7 is … even stranger. Even the A7 manages to be smaller & lighter than an already relatively small D6. What do you expect? FF with zoom in pocketable size?
@harebear Interesting, I don’t see how I am proving your point, but anyway. Your “critique” is strange. You argue that Sony doesn’t have a lineup compared to the Nikon. Ok. But then you explain how adapters make the system big, which actually mitigates the first issue. Which is it? Then you explain how the camera looks like something from the “’60s Eastern Block SLR” (it doesn’t), which I presume is a negative aspect for you. But then you are comparing to the Df, which fits the description way better.
And if the 16mm lens s the only one fitting the size of the system, I am really wondering if you actually are a NEX owner. What about the 20mm? Or the 35mm? Or the 225gr 10-18 lens? Or the 16-50? Or even the 300gr 16-70 Zeiss? All of these will be 2 to 3 times lighter and smaller than a DSLR equivalent. And there are also third party lenses, such as the Sigmas.
My Nex bodies and lenses do not occupy a significantly smaller space in my camera bag than most DSLR outfits I’ve used.
The Leica concept of a handheld camera with a couple of lenses slipped in pockets is a SMALL camera kit. Both Nex – and now A7 – miss that by a mile. If it’s not small in use there is little point in compromising (plus extra weight of adaptors + A mount or third party lenses etc) when Nikon or Canon DSLR do it so much better NATIVELY.
Most of the excitement about the concept was the often expressed wish for an RX1 body with integrated EVF and small interchangeable lenses – a pocketable Sony Leica if you will – not a DSLR clone.
The A7 design is neither fish nor fowl – more a camel … i.e. a horse designed by a committee.
But hey … don’t let me stop you buying/using/lusting after it – I’m merely expressing my disappointment at a chance missed to make post-film era history.
On the NEX side, we have, from Sony, the SEL16F28, SEL20F28, 1650PZ, and (still quite small) the excellent SEL35F18. Sigma also has quite small lenses in their 19/2.8 and 30/2.8.
Since you are not happy with any of these, I am guessing that either you want a pocketable super zoom or telephoto, or are looking at F1.4 lenses on m4/3 and therefore not happy with a small F1.8 “normal” lens on APS-C, even though 1.8 on APS-C gathers more light and has shallower DOF than a same-FOV 1.4 on m4/3.
On the A7/A7R (which haven’t even been released yet) they are already showing the 35/2.8, which is not slow and looks to be quite in line with the proportions of the body.
SQL – I’ve no interest in m4/3 but I do respect the relationship between body/lens size.
Nor do I want, or use, super-zooms. I rarely use more than few basic prime lenses.
None of the current Zeiss e-mount could be called small in comparison to Nex bodies – nor do they cover FF. I doubt Zeiss are working on small primes for FF.
Sony have worked hard on miniaturising bodies but their own lenses to date – in terms of quality – are usually poor by comparison. The only area in which they compete is in the Zeiss tie-up or by attaching larger third party options.
I don’t see an A7 body, with a huge Nikon 14-24mm (attached by shonky manual adaptor) as a ‘great’ quality FF option … as have some ‘internet experts’ of late.
Sorry. I cannot agree with you. The SEL35F18 is not at all “poor.” It’s really quite a nice lens.
A lens does not have to have the Zeiss tag on it to be good, and, yes, it is true that, to date, no Zeiss AF lenses with built-in motors have been small.
@harebear Come on, now that your argument about NEX lenses being big went down the drain, you are switching to optical quality (and there is something to be said there, but I am getting bored) and how there are no FF lenses for cameras that were announced two weeks ago. You are all over the place.
In any case, these are two very different cameras (a7 and Df), which are announced roughly at the same time. They will be addressing quite different audiences.
Sorry? When did I include Sony lenses? Others talked of SEL optics – most of which failed to sparkle on APS formats. The A7 will demand more than existing Nex/Sony range of lenses and their limited performance can supply … which means Sony/Zeiss range, adaptor mounted A mount and/or third party optics of similar quality.
None of which are SMALL. And/or NATIVE ….
I didn’t even think I’d need to mention this factor – the fact that ‘celebrity bloggers’ are only really interested in sticking Leica, Zeiss (M/ZE/ZA C/Y etc) and similar top grade lenses on Sony loaners pretty much sums it up.
I don’t think there is much point in continuing this thread if you (and others) hadn’t cottoned on to this crucial dilemma … look me up in two or three years time when Sony may have released some groundbreaking optics for their own body … instead of relying on third party intervention – Zeiss or otherwise.
Oh – and like someone else said on this site, no matter what lenses it may carry, the A7 will still look ugly – like a recycled 1960’s Topcon ….
“When did I include Sony lenses?”
> Are you being serious? You included them here “the expensive Zeiss v ho-hum Sony glass line-up that Sony offers with every E=mount release.” and here “The A7 offers much the same as Nex E series. Small bodies without small lenses.”
“The A7 will demand more than existing Nex/Sony range of lenses and their limited performance can supply … which means Sony/Zeiss range, adaptor mounted A mount and/or third party optics of similar quality.”
> And Sony will never make another lens again!
“Oh – and like someone else said on this site, no matter what lenses it may carry, the A7 will still look ugly – like a recycled 1960′s Topcon ….”
Oh, yes, that is the most important issue, that is why people would choose the Df.
“I don’t think there is much point in continuing this thread if you (and others) hadn’t cottoned on to this crucial dilemma … ”
> Given your weak argumentation, I’d agree, time to stop.
Vlad – I wholly agree that the debate is at an end.
Clever attempt at rebuttals – but you failed to address the real central issues:
i.e. the basic “NEX quality optic = HUGE LENS” argument … nor that the A7 looks like a design from a 7 year old using Duplo Lego.
The A7r looks better in real life than in pictures (but is still rather ugly) 😉
The Zeiss 35/2.8 is very far from huge, but has IMO an excellent IQ. Of course Sony needs to add more lenses to the lineup though.
@harebear Well, if I’ve forgotten the central issues, I might as well answer 🙂
“NEX quality optic = HUGE LENS” I think lenses like the 10-18, 35, the new 35 are all quality optics. None of them are huge. Just try to find a comparable wide angle lens for a DSLR. Even if we agree that quality lenses should be huge (I don’t), the potential to have a smaller camera is still there. As an example, I can use some huge lens on my NEX-7 without too much trouble and when I want to go smaller, I just use the 35mm. Can’t have this kind of flexibility with a DSLR. Obviously, it does have its trade-offs.
As to the design of the a7, you were comparing it to the Df, so what is there to address? Haha.
Just not sold on the sensor choice. D4 is great sensor for sports/action and comes in the body which is built to satisfy that use. DF on the other hand with retro controls and so on doesn’t seem to be aimed at the same usage so why slap in it 16mp sensor, that camera would be better with 24mp sensor without low pass optical filter.
This new Nikon seems to still be in the brain storming stage, I think they are just throwing out ideas to gage the reactions of photographers prior to settling on a real design . What’s been postulated so far, (two year old technology wrapped in an old suite) does not interest me. I see no real innovation or a unique capability being offered, mostly a showpiece which is fine if that’s what your into.
Yes, I’m not quite sure what to make of the Df yet. I wish I could get both the A7 and Df – it holds some appeal to me especially because I have some great F-mount lenses.
I also like the retro styling of the Df but… in an sense, oddly, the A7 also has a bit a great retro spirit – its size and weight more closely resembles that of my first beloved SLR – the Nikon EM, and although it doesn’t have the dials of the Df, the buttons and well thought-out design allows quick, easy, and intuitive access to all the important settings just like cameras of yester-year.
I just over after seeing your comment and from the pic where the guy is holding the camera it looks a little big to be a true competitor to the A7(R). But I’m sure it will stop nikon people from buying the sony cameras. The 58/1.4 looks nice though.
One of the complaints about the A7 cameras is that is that they do not have built-in image stabilization. Can anyone tell me from an engineering point of view, if this could be done in the battery grip or in the A-mount adapter?
impossible, sensor shift stabilization must be built onto sensor assembly
I don’t know why (ironically) but I like A7 low light, high iso results more. Sadly I made to believe Sony more than physics once again.
Been looking at Gordon and Davids Flickr pages, especially the A7 ones with people on them and every single one of them is horribly out of focus or at least not where I would have focussed. Don’t know whether it’s the photographer or the camera at fault here, but these pictures are a bit off-putting to say the least.
Which shots in particular? The couple shots that David has up he seems to be shooting wide open at very high ISO (so maybe not the best example for sharpness?) and on a couple of Gordon’s shot the focus does seem to maybe be off of the eyes a little (as you said, not sure why – whether it’s the camera’s focus accuracy or whether the shooters were maybe just a bit tired after long days/nihgts of shooting)
+1
I only need good sample from A7 up to iso 800 (only), but still horrible samples here.
Bad jpg sooc, bad NR, shake, bad focus!
There are no waiting list here in Japan but it’s so risky to buy A7 soon. A7r seems fine.
The A7 uses phase detection autofocus.. So perhaps the lens used needs the focus fine tuning.
The A7r’s contrast detection autofocus should always be spot on though, even if slightly slower.
“Again sorry if we keep talking about the A7-A7r but there are so many new tests and reviews every day!”
Fine by me – I’m good with ‘All A7/r All The Time’ – definitely the most intriguing cameras of the year. 🙂
Though I am also looking forward to some FE mount lens rumours.
@Mars Observer – back and forth between here and NR, isn’t it? 😉 I don’t know which way to go
Both sites occupy always open tabs on my browser 🙂
+1..more more more! Nom nom nom
we’ve got photos of new Df – it’s truly beautiful – reload NR!!!
I am curious how amount lenses will work on these new cameras. I have a 16-35 z glass and wondering how it will perform on the a7r….
I have been longing for a smaller system and started selling off equipment to put towards this new system. Just curious if I should save some a mounts.
What happened to the news of the adaptor when one can use any lens in auto focus on the sony cameras: nikon, canon, etc
Havent heard “nathan” about this.
And no, im not referring to some manual cheap adaptor on ebay.
Of course not because it’s just a child’s dream like the mythical dual mount.
Admin, don’t worry about posting more A7/A7r news – I consider it all still “rumor” material until those cameras are official available to the general public in December. 🙂
I agree with tanglefoot.. hope some new FF A Mount in the higher End coming soon. Maybe with 4K Video 😉
I´m shooting Underwater and the A7 with the lack of lenses are simple not from Interest for my needs. Add a super wide angle lense like 16mm or Fisheye who is fully compatible and a 100mm makro then I´m probaly buy it.
It is quite hard to believe, that Frank Doorhof is not paid by Sony. A99, Vaio laptop and now A7r is the sh*t. Not that I don’t like A7, but still.
If he hadn’t wrote it, you probably wouldn’t know about all the products.
Watch out! On cameralabs, some of the A7 shots were taken with the lowcost zoom. If you compare them to the A7r using the 55 prime, you compare apples and oranges! Also, the Jack Daniels Cowboy Jeans man is shot using 1/60 at 70 mm => camera shake, whereas the same shot with the 55 & A7R uses 1/640 and f1.8.
So these shots are nice but not really well comparable!!!
From Gordon’s data at Cameralabs I can see that A7R leads in resolution at low ISO, say, below 1600. There is slight advantage above that and no difference on print (or resized to 24mp) from 6400 and on. This is partially due to the terrible in-camera JPEG processing, I think, the difference will be even smaller with RAWs.
Keep the A7R / A7 stuff coming. The only reason to why I’m following SAR. 😉
Anyone,
we need someone from Korean to sign in into the SLRclub website bacuse you can see their results on them mount leneses they have on that photo.
Well I don´t see any advantages in image quality of the A7 with state of the art sensor over a Canon 6d (for example). To be honest, I like the rendering of the Canon more and even at higher iso it looks better to me. Gordon should post some Raw files.
The Link to Stefano includes an ! at the end so it wont work.
Please edit the link
http://stefanovisona.it/2013/11/sony-a7-a7r-vs-minolta-7000/
thanks! Corrected.
So many yummy lenses in that photo!!
Most of these reviews so far are from bloggers who were invited by Sony to have a nice field trip to test out these cameras. I rather wait for the reviews from those photographers who buy the cameras themselves. Sony is very good in online marketing to stir up the hype of their new products.
I saw an FE lens roadmap in the SLRclub review with 3 of the 5 lenses specified for release in 2014; 2 zeiss lenses (one F4) and 1 G lens. Can anybody translate the korean text?
Here is the roadmap. http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/the-full-frame-e-mount-lens-roadmap-15-lenses-will-be-launched-until-late-2015/
Thanks! I should have looked better 😉 So basically in 2014 everything will be more or less covered, from wide angle to tele to macro…
Not really. I don’t see anything wide angle in a zoom nor a prime. In fact, I don’t see much in any of the fast zoom or prime range that I like.
At the moment it is not a rumors site anymore, it’s more like a7 fan page…
I wish ther would be some news on the full frame A mount cameras to come- in particular the video orientated one and whether it has 5 axis IBIS.
I am already sick and tired of all this fuss abt A7/A7r. Stop it. It seems you are seeking profits frm these ads which pretend not being ads.
A7/A7r is a camera that is not yet worth all the fuss. It is ugly, too.
I am waiting for a digital picture quality technology equalling that of 4×5 + Rodenstock / Schneider.
How about that, eh ??
Seeing the A7 and A7000 side by side, I can only think: “A7r, meet your grandfather, A7000”
When did Minolta decide to invert their hot shoe, btw?
Maybe I can work around the mushy jpeg’s with raw (time consuming). Maybe I can find lenses that meet my needs (troublesome 3rd party lenses, adapters, etc.). I might even be able to rig up a decent tripod mount (still wobbly). But the flashes and shoe mount game is just unacceptable (incompatibility & overheating).
This is what kills the cam for me. Canon & Nikon have this stuff down pat.
Careful SonyMonster – I said much the same and got accused of being a troll (LOL)
I think my conclusion is – adopting Obi Wan Kenobi voice:
“These are not the cameras you are looking for …”
Exits in Millenium Falcon ….
“Canon & Nikon have this stuff down pat.” Yes everything they make is perfect. Not! Every camera manufacture has issues with certain models,even the great Canon and Nikon. Go read the complaints on the message boards of either, granted some people just like to make petty complains similar the some of those listed here but there are plenty of legitimate issues with all manufactures. Stating otherwise is trolling, and if the shoe fits.
Clearly you don’t use high ISO’s, tripods, flashes, etc. This is getting dumb. Amateur hour on Sony Alpha Rumors is in full swing, folks. I have a NEX7 and it’s sensor is great. Everything else is junk. You know it, everyone else knows, and so do Canon & Nikon. Blood’s in the water and you’re trolling around for minnows at the shore. Fool.
Anyone who would consider investing in a full frame camera to shoot jpg’s lacks any credibility in these discussions, this completely undercuts all your arguments.
You are a fool. JPG simplifies my processing workflow for everything from massive weddings to real estate photography. Troll elsewhere you clueless amateur.