With the launch of the 5 axis stabilization system of the A7II Sony opened a whole world of new possibilities. Not only is any lens produced so far suddenly “stabilized” (even 60 years old lenses). But on paper you could also realize a Super High Resolution shooting mode that Olympus added on the new Olympus E-M5II. And I even got a rumor lately confirming that Sony is testing that feature.
Diglloyd writes down what I hope will become true one day via firmware update:
Since the Sony A7 II already has image stabilization and a Sony A7R II ought to have the same stabilization, the possibility of a firmware update for the A7 II which supports sensor shift technology is intriguing. Consider the following if implemented only as far as Olympus does it:
- 24MP full-frame sensor could generate 96MP raw files delivering something approaching 60 megapixels of detail under ideal conditions.
- 36MP full-frame sensor could generate 144MP raw files delivering something approaching 90 megapixels of detail under ideal conditions.
- 50MP full-frame sensor could generate 200MP raw files delivering something approaching 125 megapixels of detail under ideal conditions.
I am sure every SAR reader would like to get that feature!
160 Responses
I hate to think what the processing demands would be like… My tablet struggles with 24mp raw as it is!
Should be a breeze for a real computer.
Don’t get me wrong, my desktop will cope fine but I use my tablet when I’m travelling (i5 4300y)
even with the highest possible noise reduction in DxO Optics Pro 10 (called “prime”) my i5 4570R needs only a minute to process 24MPix RAW. With standard noise reduction it is a matter of a few seconds…. so no problem with that. storage is also no problem as 1TB HDD is around 50-60€…
if that feature would really work, maybe even without a tripod, it would be really useful since that would enable one to take each picture with a high IQ wide prime (such as the 25mm Batis) and than simply crop to a 15-20 MPix image… NICE!!!! if it works….
Can’t you use the sensor shifting for true RGB measurement of a pixel?
I will try to explain: Take the bayer pattern of 4 pixels:
BG
GR
I will start with blue using the upper left pixel. You start exposure there. Then you stop exposure and shift the sensor 1 pixel to the left . You start exposure again, but now you will measure green at the same spot where B used to be. Stop exposure, shift 1 pixel up, start exposure for red. Stop exposure, shift 1 pixel to the right, start exposure for green. Finally stop exposure and shift sensor back to the original position.
You are aware that such tech always only works with static objects :)?
Can be used with moving subjects if speed is high enough. Sony has a patent for a shifting sensor that would record at 1/16,000 of a second, total with all the shifts was around 1/2000th of a second. Forgotten he exact numbers but even after shifting it would have been fast enough for many use cases. This is different from the shift for higher resolution, this mode was for better color fideliety.
It would appear that Ricoh-Pentax own the patent for this. Hence it’s in the K3-II but not the E-M5II. As per patents relating to 8 shot… who knows but that rather than technically is likely to be the biggest stumbling block!
Still again more resources taken away from A-Mount development…
All I want is an a99 with a77II style updates. Is that so hard Sony?
No more tiny lens mounts.
No more weak batteries.
No more cramped ergonomics.
No more lousy AF performance.
No more crippled AF-C when used with high speed motor and LAEA-4.
No more restrictions with teleconverters.
No more adapters.
No more fly-wire focusing.
No more crippled LCD movements.
No more tether shut downs because battery grip won’t transfer power.
No more 3rd party accessories that outperform OEM krap at 1/3 the price.
No more toy cameras pretending to be professional grade tools.
No more disenfranchising Amount loyalists who supported Sony from the start.
Just upgrade a99, send me on my way, and then proceed to make all the false promises and crippled little toy cameras you want Sony… I don’t care. Just support your professional users Sony… for once.
Sony doesn’t solve problems for pro level users. They create them… Now we have to use adapters for lenses and flash units… just to get the same (or less) performance we enjoyed since 1985 with genuine Amount.
The ONLY reason Emount is gaining kudos is because they become more like Amount with every generation. It’s like a huge jump backwards for a tiny step forward. Jeez I hate Sony management philosophy with false promises, secret agendas, missing roadmaps, lacking commitment…
I’ll buy the first CaNikon that has DSLR ergonomics with EVF and full movement LCD. Emount is just a temporary workaround until the real camera makers adapt with pro level philosophies. SKREW YOU SONY! Threatening my career by forcing me to use toy cameras and adapters just to keep up with the competition! Then selling your best sensor to my competition in three versions now… SKREW YOU SONY!
Who would have guessed the new A7RII would materialize in the shape of a buyable special edition firmware for the A7II? Red “R” sticker supplied with the CD? 😉
Really, who cares… It still has obscene Emount ergonomics that cannot be used with big hands or gloves. Not buying any more flimsy Emount toys pretending to be pro grade.
Sony already abandoned the “super compact” philosophy Emount was meant to be. So please just go all the way and give us a bigger (a77 size-ish) camera we can actually hold with a decent lens. I get a better grip on my phone than I do with Emount trash.
Beautiful Amount ergonomics have been abandoned. But dang that Panny G7 ergonomics looks sweet. Nicely played Panasonic…
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/3858773808/panasonic-lumix-dmc-g7-offers-4k-video
Look how simple and well placed the controls are… with FULL LCD articulation and NO stupid EV comp dial that cannot be repurposed for anything else. Nice Panny… I see you’ve adopted some Amount flavor with that one.
unlikely unless the bionz-x processor can handle that kind of data
I’ll say again, nothing makes you care less about megapixels than using an A7s. I would buy 12mp cameras forever.
What do you mean by “you”? Speak for yourself friend.
I publish tradeshow banners, double page tabloid layout, or oversized metal prints for luxury clients.
Nothing make me care less about a7s than my lighting gear and client print demands.
Lighting gear will produce different results than available light ;)…
You wouldn’t welcome this kind of feature on a stabilized A7s mkII?
I guess I would use it occasionally, but no more than I use the sweep panorama.
Absolutely love my a7s. And I don’t shoot video at all!
Who needs filesizes like that? Not me… But then… I want it I want it I want it… 😛
It’s much more likely given their past behaviors that Sony will add sensor shift to future cameras, possibly even the upcoming A7RMKII. I highly doubt Sony will add it to the A7MKII via firmware as I cannot think of even one example in their history as a camera manufacturer where they have added such a significant feature via firmware. It would completely fly in the face of their modusoperandi thus far.
I rarely shoot still life in completely controlled conditions (camera on tripod, indoors, no wind, etc…) that I can’t see myself using this feature other than to try it out.
sensor shift technology for high-res pic is no good, just marketing gimmick.
You are right. See it as a step in between the move to the foveon-like sensor. Sony just must offer this not to get surpassed by Oly marketingwise.
Additional blurry 11+7 bit pixels will not improve photo quality. Fixing the 11+7 bit color and sensor glass astigmatism will.
I don’t see any blurry in my RAW files due to dynamic range.
Brilliant comment. By the way, I don’t see any blurry due to which side of the bed I woke up on. Let’s keep investigating all of the causes of blurry that aren’t even possibilities as root causes.
Please get hit by a bus, today if possible.
And this will fix your denial how ?
It will end the pain that you obviously suffer and really make my day… win-win.
In the words of the legendary band GWAR:
“We were put on this Earth to suffer.
We each have our own private pain.
We must pass this pain onto another.
The never-ending cycle starts again.”
Apparently Katsu-san puts a heavy emphasis on that 3rd line.
Admin
Every post here by this commenter is a personal insult.
Mdb’s insults should not be allowed here,
Everybody sees blurry right when they wake up. Kill yourself please.
https://sonyvnikon.wordpress.com/2015/03/25/why-sony-fanboys-fail-to-see-the-light-and-14-bit-color/
“glass astigmatism” occurs only when using lens with other sensor it was designed for, so no problem for native Sony lenses.
Another day; another dim witted comment by Datsun Nagasaki.
Wow! 90Mp?…even 60Mp? Sweet.
I really think that 60mp will really capture the fine details of the color fringing and chromatic abrasions in my Sony and Canon lenses. This finally allows me to really drill into and pixel peep the fine purple fringing in high contrast edges. Also, the soft corners and distortion really get sampled accurately with that kind of resolution. I’m really excited to zoom and crop into that stuff.
A 24mp sensor can adequately show me all this wonderful stuff today…no problems with that. However, I think that a 56-90mp sensor will do wonders at revealing even more limitations of the glass I have in front of it.
Sweet
Never thought of buying some decent lenses then?
Ehh….all of my lenses are below $2,000 each so i got nothing that would really take advantage of 60mp. I have many of Sony’s FE models and 5 Rokinon cine primes. Got 3 Canon primes. non of them will resolve anything close to 60mp+
Would it only output as jpg?
Sony isn’t Fuji. The sony formula is: New Features = New Model. Focus peaking was the exception.
NEX-3/5 updates:
– LA-EA2/4 SLT adapter support
– creative styles (high contrast monochrome, colorkey, …)
– customizable Buttons
– Focus peaking/Manual assist
You see, the NEX-3/5 cameras (as an example) had a *lot* of new features through updates :).
Or RX10 and A77-II XAVC-S.
and bracketing, OFF video button option, for NEX 7. Not to mention faster AF for NEX 5n as well as faster start up/shut down for a77 and the RX10 XAVC-s update. Did the a77II get an update as well?
Sadly enough, no RX1 update or RX100mk I update but the RX100 and the RX1 were already more capable than anything Fuji made in those categories…
It seem Samsung is the best for firmware upgrade.
Their NX1 just get another firmware upgrade again,
which significantly improve the AF speed at low light.
and improved noise reduction in jpg.
..
My A77 pre-ordered on the first day.
Lots of bugs at the first launch, a few firmware upgrade for bugs fix.
But the jpg engine, poor noise, no auto ISO in M-mode, no customize on EV button, etc.
I thought they just did an A77II firmware update.
ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE!!
A 13′ image at 150 ppi. Is that right?? That’s a heck of a printer.
I’d prefer a 4-picture mode, where each subpixel has all colour information. Then it would be 24 / 36/ 50 Mpx resolution and file size, but in Foveon quality, without moiré, and having sharper and finer detail.
I care. Lots of People care. Just because you don’t get along with the ergonomics, does not mean, noone cares. Speak for yourself :). And I don’t understand how you dislike a dedicated dial, where are 4 more dials on the Body (is there any other camera who hsa this much?), at least one of them freely configurable.
Oh my god, the troll is back 😀 … Wake up, more professionals are going to E-Mount than ever going to A-Mount. So “toy camera” is really your personal opinion (which you can have of course).
Sony is currently one of the only “real camera maker with pro Level philosophy”, because “pro” also means “stay uptodate in technic and not rely on dated technolgy for years”.
Seems like you are as dated as C+N are 😀
Way to play the “troll” card right out of the gate Lofote. Sure, a pro will use a toy camera when forced to. But like I said, it’s only temporary until CaNikon awaken with better offerings that don’t require entirely new sets of weak batteries and chargers, and all the other mishaps Emount doesn’t want you to think about.
Now try addressing some of the real issues in my comment. Trolls don’t provide real reasons for their disgruntlement. But like you, trolls attack the messenger that speaks out, ignoring the actual message presented.
Even Sony can do it in Firmware upgrade, they won’t do it.
They will put it in the new model, so they can market it as 96MP* Super High Resolution camera.
So in essence a free, improved camera at the purchase of every new firmware.
I’m guessing you’re quite young, because you act so entitled.
I’m not reading any more amateur comments pretending to be pro grade.
Sony please make a 1Dx / D4s competitor.
Not tiny toy camera with grip that only fit 2 fingers.
and pitiful battery life, which need 10 spare batteries a day.
1/Take 5-10 frames handheld of your scene
2/import each frame as a layer in Photoshop
3/ask Photoshop to align layers
4/upsize image size by subpixel method
5/apply median blending
6/apply appropriate sharpening
Voilà !!! A supersized image without noise
your method is going to be much harder and time consuming if you need 3-5-7 bracketed exposures for HDR.
I know but that works…
For those on budget like me it’s a 0€ solution
Time is money.
Yes but my solution works NOW…cost time of course.
Some people have more time than money.
So far, yours is just about dreaming spending 2000$ for that feature maybe one day.
That sounds like a lot of work. Better to get a camera that ACTUALLY delivers 14 bit color and all of DR and resolution you paid for.
Wish I could pay for you to vanish.
Like the 2.1 bits of color Sony makes vanish ?
No like erased from the face of the planet vanish, but you won’t, because you are like a cockroach.
I hope we meet some day.
Admin
Once again MdB is insulting, and even threatening legitimate SAR posters…he has also posted comments wishing harm to individuals here.
I have flagged several of his comments
Admin
This is yet another personal insult to yet another legitamate poster by this same MdB.
Individuals like this need to change thier bejavior or should not be on SAR.
Are you related to Anton Berlin?
“related to”…
LOL
He IS Max “Anton” Berlin…
He is Anton, or whatever his/her name is.
Is there a tutorial for this somewhere?
http://petapixel.com/2013/05/29/a-look-at-reducing-noise-in-photographs-using-median-blending/
this method is for noise reduction.
Basically it’s the same thing without the upscaling step
what is subpixel method?
So… having two extra dials, one of which is ‘fixed’ in function and that is somehow worse than just two dials, because you can’t repurpose? Some people are just plain challenged…
Admin
This is anther personal insult and should not be permitted on SAR.
Spot on, spot on.
Olympus already pushed back when asked about retroactively applying it to the EM1 that the motors weren’t sensitive enough. What proof does Diglloyd and his clickbait site have that A7ii’s 1st gen IBIS motor is capable enough? Nothing but pure hot air.
Plus the combining of these separate images to produce a high MP single image takes processing power and memory – those are not firmware upgradeable.
Perhaps the A7RII will have the hardware and processing and memory capability, maybe not. Exciting for sure if it can in fact do this.
I don’t wanna say it’s possible but the mechanics of the Olympus and the Sony IBIS are fundamentally different. I’m even the opinion that you don’t need IBIS at all. Just take 2 pictures and the camera will shift at least half a pixel from picture to picture from pure shutter vibrations… To me it’s more of a software feature than a hardware feature.
Did ‘genuine’ A-Mount from 1985 have an EVF and fully articulating display? Did they have the iISO shoe? No? How can that be? Oh wait, it is because those things have absolutely ZERO to do with lens mount, clown.
i have a dynax 5, its actually surprisingly small, but i agree with him. even a half hearted effort would yield some great cameras by sony
and the new mis shoe is quite bad too, minolta shoe is better
I have a Vectis S-1. It’s surprisingly awful. If E-mount cameras is to be accused of being less than half hearted efforts, what the heck was Vectis then?
Amount brought innovation pro grade with full lens lineup, and a mount capable of supporting a 300/2.8 from the very beginning. Nothing was lost during its creation.
Emount forces compromise from the very beginning, and will NEVER be capable of supporting a large lens on its own. It is what it is, but it can never be what it wasn’t originally designed for. Crippled from the start.
I’ll give you another chump amateur example.
Amount batteries go in ONE way only. You can change batteries blind folded.
Emount batteries can be inserted FOUR different ways, but only one works. Compound that by 2x because some Emount cameras have prongs on left, and some on right. My NEX3 batteries fit differently than my a7 batteries. It’s absured.
Another example… Emount battery doors don’t have automatic locks. A feature we’ve enjoyed since 1985 with Amount. Nope, with Emount you have to close the door, and flip the switch to lock. Emount battery management is a sick sad joke compared to what a real camera company understands how to satisfy customers.
Emount recreates problems that were overcome decades ago by dedicated camera companies. Minor leaguers pretending to be pro capable. LOL.
This is stuff long time shooters appreciate. You don’t hear about the real issues on fluffy review sites.
Admin
This is an unwarented personal insult and should not be allowed on SAR
to give perspective to all those saying this is a useless feature. I am a vfx artist working on feature films. we already have an A7R at the studio. we would definitely use this for texture acquisition of props, — although this makes cross polarization more involved –and I would have to test it for bracketing HDR’s. there isn’t a lot of time to setup a tripod on-set, and there is already a ton of people walking around so they would get ghosted anyway bracketing (we paint them out).
Don’t be selfish, just because you do not need this possible feature in high resolution camera it doesn’t mean nessesary that other pro-photographers don’t need it … This thought of your will obviously make PhaseOne and Hasselblad pure nonsense.
You may have read his comment wrong. he said: “we would definitely use this”.
Go buy the Panasonic. Who cares?
An absolutely thrilling idea!!
I’d rather the firmware improves on the RAW files.
16bit RAW. Film colour gamut. Lossless compression or normal compression selection. I trade burst rate with better quality 🙂
Did mr. Altzheimer came early this year?
sony did some amazing FW updates in its past, just a few to mention:
A700: better bracketing, to help HDR pictures, Better low light, Better RAW (no “cooking”)
Nex3/5: add programmability to the buttons, add 3d panorama, add several art filters, add focus peaking (the last two features came to the Nex 5 after the Nex 5n was announced with these features build in….
From that day on all these features are in all Sony cameras, so no new FW needed. Some of these features came to some Fuji cameras with FW update just recently and everybody praised them for doing so! I do agree, Sony should take out some features and bring them back with a FW update. Everybody would praise Sony for it!
While the firmware upgrades you lament are indeed noteworthy, none of them are in a league with the high-res sensor shift feature IMHO.
please make a nex-7 style full frame camera !
With most manufacturers moving towards SLR style bodies I think your wish will fall on deaf ears.
huh ?
Recent releases from Olympus and Fuji suggest they are moving away from ‘rangefinder’ style towards ‘SLR’ style. Fashion may change, but I don’t see Sony in any hurry to change form factors again.
the 24mp bayer only have 12mp true resolution one shot，it can do 24mp real resolution by shift one pixel each time, every pixel has full color information.
there was a way tho, by moving half pixel each time and with the help of massive calculation, theoretically we can get 96mp, but this need 9 shots for bayer res, or 16 shots for full color 96mp resolution. just theoretically
In terms of DR, many company out there already found another way by reading two ISO info at the same time to boost DR. No multi shots needed.
and by olympus’s experience, high res mode can only do stills. not even portrait. so I’ll pass on this one.
whats interesting is just the 50mp, or maybe 59mp body.
I would lay back with popcorn, watch sony slap right on canon’s face. that canon lost it’s position in worlds highest resolution FF camera even before it was shipped.
BTW, by calculation in physics, the A7s 12mp CMOS sensor pretty much reached the highest possible sensitivity in low light. NOT the best human can do for right now, BUT the highest point that God formulated in nature. in other words, if nature has the amount of light at 100, sony already can do 99.5 now, and it is impossible for us to get 101, its just simply something god didn’t give us.
the only thing we can do better, is remain the same sensitivity but raise up the resolution. I have a feeling it’s not very far. LOL
You had me and all of the fact based persons of reason until you started speculating on ‘god’.
LOL. I guess I fall for him too. The entire post appears to be a scientific joke.
god is just, a saying, so lets call it nature.
the photo here can prove what I said, the dot line is SR readings from A7s，the solid line is what I called “nature” give us. as you can see, there really isn’t very much to improve at this category.
A bayer sensor uses 4 monochrome sensor pixels to generate 1 color pixel. That means technically, the true color resolution is 6 mp on a 24 mp sensor. That is 1/4 ratio. However, due to the redundant green pixels, it is rather 1/3 ratio mathematically (or Shannon entropy to be more specific). So, the upsampling is approx. 3x.
Talk about glaring artifacts showing up in landscape shots. I”m more interested in the option of full color sampling. I’ll take that please.
First World problems, eh?
“…if implemented only as far as Olympus does…”
The Oly high rez mode is 2.5 x base resolution, not 4 x.
So, 24 mp would mean 60 mp high rez mode.
Olympus hi-res mode is 4x in raw and 2.5x in jpeg.
Thanks for clarification. Strange that Olympus advertizes 40MP only. But the specs show indeed a higher pixel count in RAW files.
The interpolation algorithm is not loseless. It takes ~64 million pixels, but the actual process gives only 40 million points of actual information. The rest is just a copy. Olympus advertises this as 40 MPx and the JPEG has 40 MPx, because anything more would be just a waste of memory.
The rumor above mentions this fact. The multishot RAW would have 4x the resolution and 2.5x the amount of “detail”.
Got it.
I’ve read the resolution of most thee lenses are 23-24 mega pixel. So how can you get 90+ mpx? I see this like scanning an old snapshot. Even if you can scan at a high resolution, there is no more information?
Yeah, but you end up with half the resolution your camera is sporting due to imperfections in mounting surfaces and lens design. I don’t think we should expect a true 90 plus resolution. We’d need ideal conditions for that. It’s about overcoming those imperfections in hopes of hitting that sweet spot. There is still more juice in those FF lenses to extract. I’m thirsty.
Lets not forget you throw out 2/3 of info resolved by the lens thanked to the color filter. A 25MP lens on a Bayer sensor can be 50+ MP on a monochrome.
That doesn’t count for those generated images from several exposures. With each exposure you add more information and detail, even if you keep your image resolution the same (assuming your detail level is lower than your sensor resolution). Say, you have a 24 MP sensor and a crappy lens which only resolves 6 MP. You take your first shot, move the sensor a little bit, and take the next shot. If you overlap these images and with a magic algorithm you end up with around 12 MP of detail information (Ok, subtract overlaps and stuff). With the next image, you’ll get 18 MP and so on … So with 4 (to 6 or 8 images because of overlapping) images, you maxed out your resolution. No you can start enlarging your final image.
Btw: The brings me to my point: A quality-mode would be nicer. Who needs a 96 MB RAW file? But a 24 MP file with more details would be very nice.
On the other hand, the application is very limited to staged stills. Even if leafs, waves or hair moves a little bit, you get blurry results. Due to the high resolution it’s more limited than HDR photography.
I have some glass (legacy and more current Zeiss) that is pixel level sharp at 36MP on the A7r – so I say bring on the extra resolution. Plus images using even less sharp glass benefit from over-sampling.
Might be an interesting feature, but from what I´ve seen from Olympus it would mean just a slight increase in actual image information, as the samples look rather soft. Then again, that could explain the soft appearance of that particular 56 (59)MP image taken with a Batis lens we´ve seen a few weeks ago.
Personally, I´d prefer by far an actual increase in MP on a newly developed 50+MP sensor. Hell, give me 100+ – the more the merrier!
Sony is hardware company, it’s not a Fuji with it’s KaiZEN philosophy of hardware-software combination and continuous development. Non of sony cameras got significant software updates in long time for about 2 years after launch. So don’t wait this. Wait new camera…
Sony gave AF and XAVCS updates to the A77II and I believe XAVCS to the RX10 and 1080p 60fps to the AS15 action cam and 100mps to the AX100 camcorder , Whatever Fuji calls it , its more marketing than anything else.
Ahahahaha! Another Fuji delusion… nice.
“Ahahahaha!” Why do you say that ?
Does sony have an History of “Firmware Update after Firmware update” other than to fix flaws in their camera ? Did they do a firmware update for the Nex 7 to keep it up to date or something ? Fuji is their cameras and they add MAJOR new functions instead of making you buy a “new” body with those same new “Software” features… is Sony doing that ? Well no, sony is doing the opposite, making you need a new body every year to get some new Software functions and also sometime taking of some functionality that you had on the previous body so you can feel you need to upgrade to their new flagship… Where is the delusion then… dont be jealous 🙂
,,I am sure every SAR reader would like to get that feature!,,
100% from the SAR readers want that…. Make a poll, so we can see you aright or not
Here… This is what you want…but you can do it already
http://petapixel.com/2015/02/21/a-practical-guide-to-creating-superresolution-photos-with-photoshop/
Or this:
http://www.panohelp.com/imagestitching.html
,,With a 6 MP DSLR camera, you should be able to produce panorama proofs that are over 15000 x 2700 pixels in size (40 MP)”
When I’m right calculate is 24 MP than 160 MP and you have a very big view 🙂
Thats just a bigger photo in the form of a panorama, not the same as the same image, same ratio, higher resolution.
I know 🙂
Who is searching for more MP, has several possibility ,to appease thirst’
Good stuff. Not sure it’s really worth the hassle though.
Wouldn’t it be nice just to add silent shutter, and advanced autofocusing like the a6000?
I still don’t get all the hype about the fact that NOW, all lenses even from 1950 are now stabilized. Hello, this is 2015, A-Mount was doing it already for many years.
Ahhhh, E-Mount fans… :/
24mp full color images would be interesting. Not sure how interesting a 96mp image with motion artifacts would be. However, still life photographers might be interested. Sony already do multishot images. They’ve been doing it for a long time. The gotcha is that they use it to reduce noise instead of increasing color definition and resolution.
SLR styled APS-C camera with 5-axis image stablIzation is what I am looking for. Whip that out Sony
I need a mic for my sony cam. You know, one of those clip on doo-hickies. Any suggestions folks.
>I am sure every SAR reader would like to get that feature
Nope. 12Mp is plenty.
Agreed. Why does everyone just assume we all what a gazillion pixels??
I would disagree. 12mp true color information would be plenty. But not on a Bayer sensor. The Bayer array needs 4 pixels to generate 1 color pixel. So, 12mp on a Bayer sensor is basicly 3mp upsampled to 12mp. (That math is very simplified, but you get the point.)
So, to me, a 12mp Bayer sensor is sufficient in many cases TODAY, but definitively not plenty. Even if you do not print large, in a not so distant future we will have displays with way more than 12mp. Then you may wish more than 12mp even for web usage.
And don’t forget that many want the possibility to crop images.
the factor is 3x less pixels than true colour… as for the rest, get yourself a set of Sigma Merrills, while they are still around and before these old cameras sell out. The new Sigma Quattros no longer have true colour.
Not my cup of tea. I would love to have a true color sensor, but definitively not the Sigmas. They are sharp at pixel level. Thats all. The rest (high ISO, speed, handling) sucks so bad. If you downsample a A7R image to 15mp you will reach almost the sharpness of the Foveon sensor but with a much better camera and usable high ISO.
I mostly use a Ricoh GR and I’m happy with it. The only thing I miss sometimes, is A7S like sensitivity.
Simply not the case… the ISO limitations can be worked around by how you take photos. Plus down sampling A7R will not produce the same quality in colour and microcontrast… would love to be proven wrong, as it would give me other options, but the answer is no.
When I can afford it, I will get the A7S… or the next version. The number of pixels suits me but I need to research properly how much better, or not, the ISO performance really is.
Still I have to be sensible, I accumulate different cameras and do not have enough time to use them… or now even not enough time to process the photos… so no matter how good they are, stop for now 🙂
Let’s just assume that SAR readers would like more from their cameras than is available at launch.
I very much like the availability of higher resolution and this will be a great feature on those occasions where it is usable.
My concern of course is that thii will probably only be usefull for tripod shots of non moving subjects.
Even the tiniest of camera/subect movement during a multiple exposure shot will far exceed the pixel size.
If the software automatically aligns each exposure before combining them that could possibly make this more usable handheld for static subjects.
So you want to bend time and space?
What is your issue?
You have personally insulted everyone you have responded to.
Now you try to bait me with some sort of nonsense response which you will immeadiatly respond to by insulting me too.
Please either respond with a constructive intelligent response and do not subject us to your personal insults, or do not respond at all.
Well please explain how you expect what you said to work? Was what I said an insult or is it an insult that someone questions you? You make lots of bold statements Barry, usually with very little to back them up. Max / Anton Berlin is a known troll / shill. I will continue to insult him. Elpha ain’t No Alpha is also a troll. And you I place into a category of ‘a bit lost and looking for meaningful interaction, but does not like being questioned, expects everyone to believe and appreciate everything you think and therefore say on face value’.
Would really dig a modular flangeless 35mm camera with sensor shift. That camera could be used flawlessly with large format wide angle lenses to make massive prints. Currently, my A7r gets only as wide as 50mm with wide angle lenses if the lens is shifted or tilted because of the deep flange.
While I have doubts that Sony would immediately make sensor shift available in the A7 II series, it would be wonderful if they did. Then, my ridiculous dream of putting that tech into a modular, sensor-shifting 35mm back would more than just a complete and utter fantasy.
You mean a “35mm digital back”, just like medium format digital backs?They should also make such a digital back around their 50 MP medium format sensor that is used in the Pentax 645Z and by Phase One! I’d definitely buy one to use on my Cambo Actus, if reasonably priced!
Yeah, the same. But if the sensor could shift it would be super duper great for all sorts of work, even if just for the reduction of noise. I’d expect 16bit RAW files, robust sensor toppings that are as easily cleaned as Phase One sensors, internal batteries, active cooling, syncing to manual leaf shutters, etc., so the sensor wouldn’t be cheap. But it would be cheaper than MF backs. Maybe 5000 – 6000? Workable.
Panasonic has just anounced it will have 8k video recording, from which individual 33mp still pictures can be extracted, and that this will be available by 2020.
A similar statement was made during a recent Panasonic interview, and I was of course critisized when I made a comment saying that, but now Panasonic has officially stated thier intent to do this.
6k has been available for years via RED cameras, going to 8k wasn’t much of a stretch of the imagination.
4k and 8k are international standards. 6k is not.
TED is geared to professional cinimatography…they need to provide a level beyond what general consumers can aquire.
While we were given 2k, pros were using 8k.
Now that consumers have 4k RED is beginning to sell 8k, and it will be made even more available to cinamatographers in the near future.
Panasonic is talking about consumer 8k by the 2020 Tokyo Olympics.
As you say 8k is not a stretch of the imagination, but when I began talking about 8k…4 years ago…I was severely criticized for predicting it.
I have a tendency to look farther ahead than most people are comfortable with and am often severly critisized for that..but if you look back at my comments from several years ago you will see they are right in line with what is now going on, and the comments I am making now will similarly be right in line with what will be happening several years in the future.
What has however surprised me is that progress has been comming at a slower pace than I have expected.
I find it interesting that almost half my critics critisize me for having wild crazy ideas when I first comment on ideas, and half critisize me for stating the obvious when I continue to talk about those same crazy ideas years later.
Rarely however do they comment about how often Barry was right.
you realize almost no one is outputting 4k for feature film, right? all the big movies are 2k out. most of the bigger vfx studios aren’t even prepared for 4k, let alone anything else. IMAX is unprezzed. the people working on 5.5-6k are shorts, music videos for the most part.
Well 2020 is in a long time and it seems relatively safe to assume that the infrastructure will have adapted somewhat. However, even today there are a lot of advantages of shooting and editing in 4k even for a 1080 output.
Yes Barry, you were the first and only person to be talking about 8K. Well done. Feel better?
Its true I’d like the ex comp dial to be programmable. But in “m” mode with auto iso the ex comp dial is great. Also agree the ergonomics bcould be a lot better, my nex-6 is more comfortable than my a7s.
Sounds likes a potential feature for a future camera release not a firmware release – if not for technical feasibility than for marketing.
admin – it won’t be 4x as some have already said. It will be closer to 2x. Take a look at PhotoAcute software to see it in operation from a software perspective.
8K is available here and now. The only reason why it’s not implemented is because manufacturers need fill up the markets. Release 8K widely today and who will buy 4k? No one. No. This is not how it’s done. First we saturate the market with 1080p, then people go buy everything again for 4K, and later buy more gear all over again for 8K and whatever comes after that. Of course no-one really needs 4k or 8k but the manufacturers and marketing dictates what we “need”. I’ve been using PhotoAccute for years. Its a great app and ridiculously simple to use. Same results as “pixelshifting” that is now becoming the “new” great hype. Best results from 6 to 8 individual photos. Resampling result is basically 2x enlargement, not 4x. Is very good. Results can be amazing.. for whoever needs ginormous images that mostly all end on the web as VGA sizes.. the world is funny..
It could be a manufacturer led conspiracy that’s slowing the adoption of 8K, or it could be the lack of content and the extreme cost of 8K screens. Nice rant though.
would be interesting to see diffraction kicks in at F2.8 lol
Doesn’t work that way
I would like to see Foveon grade detail at the same output resolution instead, saves space and goes easy on the computer handling it.
hackers also add some format changes to canon and nikon cameras. but nothing major like af points navigation with back cross type dial without need to press something before, sony doesn’t, Fiji does…
Camera hardware parts like cpu reach it’s power limits, so the main way to upgrade is software way. It’s similar to PC world, I see no big difference between computers from 2008-2010 and modern ones, but got big one in software way from win XP – Vista – 7 -8 -X and OSX 10.6-10.10…
How do you know that? I think this world is big enough for two 14bit-maniacs. 😉
No point in 8K for a long time. Monitors and processing power are required to match. This is getting beyond the capability of personal computers. I have a 2015 Clevo laptop (top spec) and LG True 4K 31″ and still the thing will slow to a crawl. That lot came in at £4000. £4K. (lol). Just can’t see me going for £8K.