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The new Leica FF mirrorless will have a design based on the original [shoplink 39731 ebay]Leicaflex camera[/shoplink].
MirrorlessRumors (Click here) broke the news and posted some detailed info about the very first Sony A7 line competition. Lecia will launch a new Full Frame Mirrorless (non-rangefinder) system camera in October! Here is the info via MR:
Coming soon: An interchangeable lens version of the Leica Q, with AF lenses. Due out in time for Photo Plus, in October.
This will not be the replacement to the M240 but rather a new system with new AF lenses, bulkier than the Q or M lines, with an EVF and lighter build despite the bulk. Sensor will be similar, if not the same, as the Q’s sensor. Anticipate that it will come bundled with a 50 mm f/2 Summicron lens and retail around $8,000 USD. Build quality will be comparable to the M line and Q line…much of the Q’s tech, including in body image stabilization, electronic shutter, and built in high res EVF, will be included. The camera may harken in design to [shoplink 39731 ebay]Leicaflex bodies[/shoplink] of years gone by…like a bulkier XT-1 with more simplified layout. This may end up being called the new “R” camera and may well take old R lenses via adapter, along with new AF R lenses. Not sure that it will take M lenses.
Anticipate that Leica will begin to simplify options, but canceling the T line and possibly the X-line. What will remain are the DLux, VLux, M, Q, S lines…
Good, at last Sony will get some competition although the price of the Leica camera body is rumored to be around a heavy $6,000. It’s a good news for us Sony camera owners too. Without competition we are condemned to pay a high price on new cameras and lenses. With Leica and maybe in future Canon and Nikon FF mirrorless things will change.
It’s also worth to mention that the mirrorless tech like in body stabilization and the sensor are made by Panasonic. Maybe one day Panasonic will join the new Leica system too?
115 Responses
It’s a Leica. It’s $6000. And the lenses will be even more expensive. It’s great to see them in the marketplace, though. They’ll probably not going to be at Best Buy, but one can dream about owning a modern Leica system. Just like the old days.
Or not, they managed to make a 28mm 1.7 that is cheaper than theirs 28mm f2, not counting the whole camera attached to the lens.
Isn’t the price is $8, 000?
“Anticipate that it will come bundled with a 50 mm f/2 Summicron lens and retail around $8,000 USD.”
That would make it a 6000US body. Competition, but not very direct. Good news though, the more the merrier.
Certainly pricey. Though I suppose if you’re the kind of person whose already heavily invested in Leica glass, that’s probably not a huge issue…
Haha, exactly. And just look at old R lenses’ prices going through the roof.
Is T-mount large enough to fit FF?
Yes.
Why MR talks about dropping T-line, then…
Money maybe?
You only asked if the mount is large enough for FF…
Unfortunately the flange is close to e-mount, so that could mean no adapters
I hope it looks like a Leica Q, not a digital R.
F’n better take M lenses. Grrrrr.
This is going to take Leica mainstream, or as mainstream as an $8000 system can be.
So in otherwise, not mainstream at all.
There’s a long list of people that will get this camera, for sure.
I can bet that any event photographer that shoots with something like a 1D/D4 will keep an eye on this.
Just like some bloggers, Ming Thein, Digilloyd and a lot of other.
And pretty sure that no one will question again the small size “issue” like they do on A7 series.
What i find interesting is there has been nothing about the next Sony release coming sometime soon.
RX1 II?
This is great news. Finally Sony can get some competition so they can stop charging $1000+ on “Sony Zeiss” lenses. Hope we get to see more affordable sharp lenses like the 28/2.
I didn’t get it ? Are you trying to be sarcastic ? Or are you serious ?
If you are serious do note that this is NOT a real competitor to Sony.
This is a camera system if you have tons of money. A 28mm f2 lens on this system should cost you some $3000 at least.
This will make Zeiss lenses look like supreme VFM lenses !!! 😀
Lieca is a differrent market than Sony and will not effect Sony.
Soon all cameras will be mirrorless.
It is fortunate for Sony that Canon and Nikon have waited so long to seriosly join the mirrorless competition….if they had been early players in the market Sony would still be #3.
Despite making great advancements Sony still suffers from an extremely limited ability to listen to what photographers want and a poor understandig of the photo industry….perhaps it is their lack of understanding of what ” the box” is that allows them to think outside the box.
At some point Canikon will need to attempt to take on Sony in the mirrorless market….it will be interresting to see how they do that.
Right … they make shit cameras for the money. We get it.
uh oh… don’t say that, if the fanboys hear they might come down on you like they did when they saw that one post from Diglloyd!
A lot of improvements in the curent a7rii show actually that sony do listen to what photographers want. The difference have to be cleared: listening to the “real” photographers claims and wishes vs. listening to the pixel-peepers moaning out of any touch with reality
what do you mean, 11+7 compression? What else has been different in wishes of pixel peepers vs. photographers? Both want faster AF, longer battery, quicker EVF etc.
I don’t see your point. The Mark II is a huge improvement compared with the nominal predecessor A7r. AF is not perfect but it is clearly improved, high ISO behavior is improved, EVF is improved, ergonomics are improved. You’ve got BSI, AF with Canon, Nikon, Pentax, internal 4k video, you can charge and shoot simultaneously and so on and endless so on. The battery life is clear compromise in favor of compacter body. A lot of photographers agree with this priority. If size doesn’t matter for you – feel free to attach the battery grip and enjoy longer power supply and even better ergonomics. I really don’t see your point.
So many people are forgetting too easily which huge improvements SONY did for us in last several years. We have got Full Frame on mirrorless (at that time almost no one did believe that it’s possible at all), we have got PDAF on sensor, IBIS, now BSI-sensor, EVF is incredible in comparison with first attempts. And after all of that there are people still able to put their inappropriate verdicts like: “Sony doesn’t listen to us”, “Sony understand nothing about photography”, “Sony bla” and further horse°shit. It’s just narrow-minded and sad.
I am not making a point, Iamasking aquestion,
What makes you think that the Nikon1 and EOS-M weren’t serious? Maybe that is all they could muster.
lol
Define “soon”
Remember – someone in the 70’s one said “Soon all cameras will be SLRS” Leica din’t go out of business, nor did Linhof.
Who said anyone would go out of business? You love your Leica, eh?
Soon as in it is already happening.
Almost every major camera manufacturer hasa mirrorless system…..although the level of commitment varies, and will increase with time.
This will not be a sudden transition, and you will not be a specific day and say this is when the transition uccured, and some companies will hold out much longer than others
When the 3d pd stacked layerd sensor is released tjat will be a turning point because then mirrorless AF will be much much faster and more accurate by far than slr…to the point that even the harshest critics will have to acknowledge it.
Best GUESS we might see this type of sensor in 2 years…but that is a total guess.
Would you like to buy me one if they come sooner ? 8*)
Linhof hardly matters in the business anymore, in…I’m guessing less than a decade, nobody will even produce compatible film. In this sort of generalization, it’s ok to leave out a few niches.
Linhof is terribly relevant. At least to serious fine art landscape photographers. That’s not the point, though…
The point is that the SLR isn’t going to disappear. Let’s say this – even if Mirrorless really really takes off… you’ll still see at least a 20-40% market share for the flappy mirrors in the next decade. You can take that to the bank.
But it will, Sony sold a lot of A7 for its adaptability on legacy lenses, any high end glass collector would gladly trade their A7 for a Leica FF.
We have a lot of great and cheap FF cameras on the market already. So the news that Canon or Nikon or even Leica going to release another one doesn’t impress me. For 6000$ I would like to obtain medium format mirrorless system based on Sony’s 44×33 mm sensor. That would be the news! )
hope it’s true. this move will save Leica’s future. Good for photography in general if Leica remains relevant.
$8000 ain’t no competitor
$6000 for body.
it makes a difference..especially if you’re already willing to pay $3300! & if the Leica somehow justifies the diff., I bet you a lot of people will pick it up..
Still isn’t because the price bracket is aiming not so much about the practical aspect of the camera itself (it will not do more than the A7II, let alone the A7rII except lossless raw files) but at another market altogether.
It works like this, if you’re actually an enthusiast and you happen to be wealthy enough to afford Leica, you could choose this for the design, the build, German glass, that sort. The Hasselblad rebrands only catered to wealthy ignoramuses so that didn’t quite work out.
If you’re purely shooting for money, there’s almost no way you would choose this camera.
Take the price with a grain of salt. Most people will leave the botique with a $10,000 bill.
@ $6k there’ll be a big queue on the door.
Right lol People have complained about the 3,400 dollar price tag of the a7RII. I doubt they would be jumping ship lol. Nevertheless, great to have options…
$3200 isn’t it?
tax?
I hope Panasonic follows up with a Lumix version with similar pricing to the A7RII.
It has always been the other way around: Panasonics were rebranded into Leicas at higher price.
I know. One can dream!
It’s a wild dream.
Really? Like Apple getting into the automotive business?
these have nothing to do with one another, apple sits on a pile of cash and if it didn’t get into the automotive business it would get into nuclear energy or something, neither Panasonic or leica has much cash to pull off a stunt and I don’t think leica would risk its reputation in the high end like that.
obviosly a7rii price will not fall down as fast as many of us would like to see… now there will be a “competitor” who shows that 3,5k $ are peanuts in comparision with 6k
This.
3,2K US. It is a good price even compared to Canikon, I’d say.
I’d like to see what it will eventually be when it comes. I like Q and if they could take that concept and evolve it to ILC then I might be interested, not sure about the R shaped one though.
It could be a blend between current M240 (which is my go-to camera) and the new Q.
They should just make it like the Q – take off the rangefinder and put an EVF. But, who knows, maybe they will go for some retro impression?
You mean a FF Leica T with EVF?
The price of Leica neither affects nor reflects any other camera product. Think about it. Has anyone shaped the pricing of their digital products based on what Leica charges?
It may be tempting for some to have a better looking camera, with lossless raw compression, but it will not win or kill any hearts that can’t afford the price level of Leica.
True, but I would be definitely more interested in it than in the current underfeatured offerings at the same price point.
Leica creates fantastic photography experiences. It’s what they are best at, and nobody is better at it than they are.
If true, this will be a lovely product but probably won’t have much impact on Sony and A7 at all.
All said, people who love specs, value equations, and gear are the first to dismiss this. Technical gear enthusiasts really aren’t the right people to evaluate Leica products.
at Leica’s 2.5x price of Sony products, this barely matters, they are different markets.
Agree. This product won’t impact Sony… aside from the halo effect (a little bit). There are a number of people who fancy a Leica system that end up buying an A7x.
you seem to have changed you point 🙂
Quite the opposite – I made the same point in my original post as well. Whether the Leica camera is a good product and whether it matters to Sony are just separate questions.
Make a controversial statement, then explain that those who disagree simply don’t get it.
I’m intrigued- but not at that price. 4k and we can talk. 8k? Sorry, the market is churning out to many top shelf alternatives in a compact form factor.
4k in Leica? I hope you are not serious. That pleasure would cost $25000.
Oh I’m dead serious. Time for Leica to learn it’s place- they aren’t the big dogs of ultimate IQ anymore. Also, I want them to throw in the safari edition for free.
Leica S(007) does or it doesn’t?
Perhaps my sarcasm mode is off, but I’m pretty sure by 4k @Thinkinginpictures meant $4,000.
Yeah, i realised that as soon as i posted the comment. But i still liked it and had to leave it unedited 🙂
Actually the Leica S (new one) shoots 4k and can be yours for $17.5k.
Than my guess about the price was close enough 😉
They’ll probably use the Leica T-mount that could mean no adapter for e-mount.
At that price, I want 18 bit lossless compression to shoot decent pictures of my black cat in the dark at 20 stops underexposure.
At this point you’ll get a FF Leica T.
Ah, yes, the $6000+ Leica badge… Remember the Hasselblad NEX-7?
It is nothing like that.
We caught one on sale at $1499 and willing be using it as a gift lol
There were some comments on l-camera-forum pointing to a patent that explained digital RF -> that’s what I meant by that. A bit like Fuji’s VF in X100T I guess. Q feels really great in hand – still torn between that or a 28 lens.
I just don’t understand the mindset in Leica… While I have some Leica film cameras and lenses I can’t see how they can expect anyone to pay the prices they want to charge for their digital cameras. Digital cameras just don’t ever come across to me as needing the same build quality as a film camera, because when I got a film camera I expected it to last for years if not decades even from daily use…. But a digital camera… Not only do I not expect it to last for decades, I know deep down it only needs to last a few years because it will become obsolete and be stashed in a closet.
If they would create an upgradable camera that I could pull the old sensor out of and drop in a new one when things had improved then hey I might understand what they are doing… but this is silly.
It’s technically unrealistic. They’d need to make pulling out the processor, the RAM, pipelines…easy enough for you? The easiest way for that would be to make the entire motherboard interchangable, but then it would be economically unrealistic.
They could make a updated DMR module, but, I think it’s higly unlikely at this point. Everything they did for the Leica Q would be dumped.
And I see a lot of wealthy prosummers that lugs around a 1D/D4.
I will get this if it will have bulb mode! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
Sick of these retro designs. Leica should use R8/9 design. Best ergonomic camera in history, especially for the vertical shooter with low placement of shutter button, like Sony AMount has, but EMount lost. Now my palm fires the a7RII vertical shutter, or locks AEL and makes me wonder why camera isn’t operating. Sure, turn it off, but that adds extra step that AMount didn’t suffer, and makes operation slower.
Return to Minolta design philosophies Sony. Your tech is great. Your EMount ergo is a mess.
I think it’s not really a competitor to the a7 so much as a response to it. Many digital M owners are wealthy amateurs who bought the most lauded camera brand and found they can’t focus the darn thing. I think they may be losing customers because Sony has a more accessible Full-frame camera that is high-shelf enough for a rich person to carry around. I doubt this will affect the sales of the a7 series, but it may go towards recovering a segment that Leica is losing.
not sure i’m a wealthy amateur -> i just don’t buy the latest and shiniest stuff out there and skip 2-3 generations – that actually accounts for exactly the same amount of money that M240 costs -> they’re on much slower cycles than your average Sony cam.
Could that be what justified Zeiss to make lenses dedicated to FF mirrorless in two different line-up?
Is it April fools day?
Irrelevant really but that thing looks like my XD-7 which regrettably helloes “pickmeup” more than my A6k. It doesn’t have a grip, is a whole lot trickier to focus with and produces nowhere near as nice images, technically speaking, at least with my development+scan techniques, but ..it looks nice, feels nice in the hand in spite of the missing grip, and that shutter..
The Q has a built-in EVF.
I am guessing T-mount, but with an FF sensor.
I understand the omnipotent power of the red dot, but i am afraid that their $6000 camera will be behind first A7 specs wise. And by the time it is released, A7 will cost $300 second hand.
I don’t think it would be behind the a7 specs wise, the Q already had very good burst and AF, with an electronic shutter, even if it really is simply an ILC version of the Q with a blown up body, it would have specs somewhere in the range of a7II. I’d rather it’s just an ILC version of the Q, without enlarging the body in any way, especially not adding a god forsaken hump to house the EVF.
Leica Q proved that they are in the right route.
Specwise they are pretty competent, specially the mechanical lenses with AF.
Cancelling the T would be good call, it was a bad call to launch in the first place…but cancelling the X? Not sure that’s wise…
Although the last two R models had a very sophisticated design…the Leicaflex simply looks butt ugly. I hope the rumor’s false on that part.
Most of the Q’s appeal was what all-round package it was, it offered a good, *bright* lens at a useful focal length, with good enough electronics to match, all in a very compact body(FF wise). If they go pseudo-SLR with the body and make bulky lenses to go with it, the appeal will be halved. If the body’s bigger but somehow lighter…I’d guess there’s too much plastic in it for it to be a luxury camera.
Maybe they’ll go for a miniature R8/9 style, but I find very unlikely that they will mess up with the design.
My guess is it will look very similar to the Q. Can’t see them going with SLR style, it’s not what they are famous for.
E-mount ergo isn’t that bad. At least my NEX-7 was very easy to hold. They made the body thicker on the a6000(dreaded plastic) and seemed to have left out enlarging the grip, so it could be worse on the a6000. I’ve also tried an a7R before and it’s not as easy to hold as my NEX-7(mounting the same lens of many sizes ranging from a standard prime to a fast telephoto zoom), but the second generation design looks more promising.
I hope It looks better than that. Cause this thing looks worse than my XD-11 Minolta.
You mean that it looks awesome then.
I’m curious to see how the Pana DFD tech will work on a FF interchangeable system. Maybe that would make Sony pursuit this route too.
The A7 series had appeal for a lot of M-mount and R-mount ownes, and they just don’t care much about prices since they already have the lenses. So I think it will affect the A7 sales.
And I am pretty sure that even if the specs doesn’t quite match the A7rII there’ll be a lot of high end DSLR photographers migrating to this system. They would neve consider the Sony with something like this on the market.
Their lenses are awesome, no argue about that. But 6k is only for the camera.
What, on earth, differentiate a rangefinder camera from a mirrorless camera in terms of structure not including the location of eye-cup?
focusing, metering
Nice, a Leica for 3050$, wow.
A $6000 camera is not competition for cameras around 50% (or more) less. Two different price categories / two different markets.
Not when they where the only FF mirrorless on the market, I can see anyLegacy lens collector and high end professionals buying this over the a7, most of them buy Sony because there where no alternatives.
What’s controversial? That Leica specializes in positive photography experiences, or that gear-focused enthusiasts dismiss anything that doesn’t have a big, fat DxO score?
Let’s all hope!
Its amazing what people will buy because the name. The real competition will be when Panasonic releases the same FF camera for $2500 with 4K video