Diggloyd is the first photographer testing the new Zeiss Batis FE lenses. And his first impression is that he is…impressed 🙂
The Zeiss Batis 85mm f/1.8 Sonnar rocks. What a gorgeous lens (the Zeiss Batis 25/2 also). MUST HAVES for Sony shooters.
Short of Zeiss Otus you’re not going to do any better at 25mm and 85mm on Canon and/or Nikon. And the Zeiss Batis 25mm f/2 surely looks to be a better lens than the [shoplink 36845 ebay]Zeiss ZF.2 25mm f/2 Distagon[/shoplink]. Which raises a nagging question I’ve been wondering about for 2-3 years: when is Zeiss going to raise its wide-angle game in the DSLR arena?
A camera system depends on its lenses, and the Zeiss Batis line now solidly anchors the Sony mirrorless platform. Along with the Sony 28mm f/2 (more review coverage coming) and the Sony/Zeiss 35mm f/1.4 and the prospect of a 50+ megapixel Sony A9, one wonders about Nikon and Canon and Fujifilm as distant runner ups in key markets like travel, landscape, wedding photography, etc. If only Sony would fix is dog excrement service and support.
It’s really amazing we have Zeiss 100% focused on the Sony FE system. With the Zeiss Batis and the [shoplink 36846 ebay]Zeiss Loxia lens line[/shoplink] we have some game changing options in for the Sony FE system. Now Sony it’s your turn to learn from the early FE camera faults and limits and improve them on the future A7 and A9 cameras! P.S.: And please, give us a proper bigger A9 soon!
Both Batis lenses are now available for preorder in USA and Europe (UK/Germany)
Zeiss Batis 85mm f/1.8 lens in US at Adorama, Bhphoto. In Eu at Amazon DE, WexUK. In Asia at Digitalrev.
Zeiss Batis 25mm f/2.0 lens at Adorama, Bhphoto. In EU at Amazon DE, WexUK. In Asia at Digitalrev.
In Europe and Asia the Loxias can be found in Stock via [shoplink 36456 ebay]eBay sellers (Click here)[/shoplink] and Digitalrev (Click here).
142 Responses
You have to wonder how much Sony is paying Zeiss for its partnership. With a far larger user base, these lenses in Canon/Nikon mounts would easily eclipse what they’re going to sell in E mount. Hopefully the next A7 models will get a significant AF upgrade, my a5100 is so much better. IBIS won’t make me give up my D750, better AF will. Till then no Batis for me.
^^ Completely different designs so its not like they can port these lenses to DSLRs.
Hence Zeiss has basically no competition for these lenses.
Right, but they can obviously do DSLR lenses. With no AF on the ZE/ZF’s there has to be something from Sony to keep them from doing AF lenses for the big two.
Lens mount licensing?
Yep you need to license the use of the mount. The E Mount is open source in attempt to engage more. Sony wants as many people making emount glass.
Yeah exactly, but I meant as a reason for not in Canon / Nikon mount, they don’t licence the mount or AF protocols at all so far as I know, but maybe Tamron / Tokina do.
Third part suppliers reverse engineer their lenses, Canon isn’t giving them it’s protocols. You don’t have to pay to license the mount either, sigma, Tamron, tokina, zeiss, and all the dozens of adapter makers are free to create accessories with the canon mount as its all add-on parts. If someone were to sell a body with the EF mount that would be different.
It’s far, far trickier than you might think. No, Canon and Nikon do not license the mount information to third parties. Sony does license the E/FE mount information to third parties.
But…
Nikon {not sure about Canon) also has had deals where Tamron designs and/or makes lenses that appear under the Nikkor name. In order to do that, I’d have to guess that Tamron gets a pretty intimate look at the mount communications required.
E mount is not open source, never was and not going to be, stop reciting urban legends
Not open source in the truest sense but much more so than Canikon. Third party manufacturers can apply for official specs so their lenses aren’t reverse engineered. They aren’t guaranteed firmware support in the body though but it is a big improvement IMHO.
My bad I must of confused royalty free for open or just read an article with incorrect information. It’s something I believed to be true since I got an NEX 5N.
It’s good when people admit their mistakes!
Zeiss have already explained multiple times that Canikon doesn’t really wish to cooperate too much, especially in terms of their stoic unwillingness to allow oversea company to develop AF lens (sigma doesn’t count as it is also a Japanese company). Sony is willing though and I will happily enjoy the fruit of their union 🙂
I really never got that. It’s the reason I didn’t go Nikon. I have to have AF and I am a Zeiss nut. Their loss- I bet Zeiss is really happy they have that partnership with Sony now. Their sales can only skyrocket over the next few years.
exactly. We are alike then: loving zeiss colours/contrast/sharpness/antiflare but desperate for AF. With the lack of a proper native AF 85mm for nearly 1 and half year now, the crazy anticipation will surely ensure that the manufacturing capacity of Zeiss is blown into smithereens by the demands. Its great to be a Sony User now with their steadily maturing lens ecosystem. I can almost taste the palpable sourness from canikon camp now 😛
They addressed this query some time back though obviously we have no way of knowing whether it is true or not.
Basically since Canon/Nikon refuse to give the AF license to 3rd party lens manufacturer outside of Japan Zeiss cannot officially make lenses for DSLRs.
However Sony has partially opened up its FE mount and so any lens manufacturer can make AF lenses if they so wish without having to re-engineer anything. And Sony WANTs other lens manufacturers on board at least for the next few years when they will have many lens gaps so they will work closely and offer support to other lens manufacturers. Something Canon or Nikon will NEVER do.
“Dog excrement service”? wtf? Automatic censorship changed misspelled “poor/poop” word?
Why would Zeiss show that Otus Quality could be achieved for less?
That would put Otus prices under pressure even that Batis is not made for Canikons.
It sounds fishy to me.
Why must there always be a conspiracy, one persons opinion is not a statement of fact. The Otus is the superior lens; better mechanically, better optically.
I wish someone would comment on the tactile feel of manual focus on the Batis fly-by-wire focusing system.
Specific questions.
1 – Do they have the same manual focus accelerometer as the Sony lenses… or are they more linear?
2 – Does the fly-wire system react to extremely slow manual focus fine tuning? Or like the Sony lenses, is focus disabled when turning the manual ring very slowly for fine tuning?
Still trying to figure this out Clyde – there is no issue here! The Batis are linear motors, look at B&H’s listing.
Guys, this is seriously getting out of control. I’m going to have to get a second job to support these lenses. Dear Sony/Zeiss- please produce some subpar lenses so I can catch up on my bills.
See the FE 28mm f2. That’s as close your going to get in full frame 🙂
They already have decent lenses available, in addition to, the countless options you have with 3rd party lenses and adapters.
Goodbye Zeiss 85mm f1.4 ZA, hello native option.
Are you going to miss the 0.4 aperture difference?
2/3 stop light loss, 1/2 stop light gain, gain weather sealing, gain native AF, gain IS, lose some weight, lose some DoF control, (likely) gain a little in IQ. Love my ZA, but this is tempting.
I miss the o.4 aperture of 50mm 1.4 when I shoot the FE 55mmf1.8. I won’t miss the uncontrolled CA of the 85 1.4
Quite surprised that the 25mm is only 335g to be honest.
Keep the mini-oti coming 🙂
This has got to be eating into Leica profits. Some will say that’s a completely different demographic- hogwash. Not even the most ardent Leicaphile could sit on the sidelnes without questioning himself. Zeiss isn’t killing it…they killed it and continue to stab it. All we need now is a pro body with fast AF and few other things. That’s it Sony. What are you waiting for?
Drop the A9 and the 135mm and I’m all in.
I hope we soon see more Batis lenses. I’ve been shooting Leica for a long time and I’ve grown tired of their lack of direction and development. This, coupled with the a9 or a7r II may just be what I’m looking for.
Zeiss knows the potential in e-mount cameras and probably knows, for the most part, what Sony has up their sleeve. Why else would they take a risk in making two separate lines of lenses (that aren’t really affordable for the average consumer) for a system that no “professional” would take seriously?
Perhaps they know something that you/we don’t.
Agreed. What are we talking about, soccer shooting “professionals”?
I could make a list of pros who use these cameras, but you can just as easily do so with a web search.
In any case, anyone who can shoot in manual can get more out of these cams than most, be they amateur or pro.
I own an A7ii, r and s so I do know these cameras are capable of meeting anyone’s needs.
I was just trying to poke fun at critics who continue to say they can’t be used in professional work (although in some cases, depending on what you shoot, that may be true). No matter how hard I try, I can never effectively make a sarcastic statement over the Internet.
I suspect that Zeiss believes that mirrorless FF cameras are the future and wants to be in on the ground floor.
Unlike Sigma and Tamron, who seem to have missed the boat…
They certainly have, and should stop making excuses and start making lenses.
Tamron 18-200 was one of the first native lenses for the NEX cameras and Sigma was right there with its ART line for E-mount. You can’t say they have been sleeping but recently I feel they are trying to milk the DSLR market as long as it exists with much more affordable options to the expensive Canikon Lenses
What else should be the future others than the mirrorless cameras? It’s much more obvious even compared to electric cars…
I think you’ll find these answers once the lenses are officially released. I doubt there are more than a handful of people who have the lenses already and even fewer who are willing to write about them.
Batis 35mm/f2?
Yes, please.
Loxia 85/f2 ans 25/f2 please too
Because it’s not Otus quality. The MTFs may look impressive on paper, but if you want to correct the massive amounts of distortion on this lens, then the edges will be significantly blurred. You get what you pay for.
At no point does Lloyd claim the Batis are as good as the Otus. The direct quote is “Short of Zeiss Otus, you’re not going to do any better at 25mm and 85mm on Canon and/or Nikon.” Which indicates these are the best lenses in those focal lengths other than the Otus.
At the same time, Lloyd has led the fight against Sony’s post sale service and support, 11+7 bit color scheme, sensor glass, shutter shock and etc.
http://diglloyd.com/blog/2015/20150518_1648-Sony-reliability-and-service.html
Great lenses from Zeiss but a waste to put them on the Sony until they FIX the issues they have neglected for the last 2 years.
The “issues” you’re constantly repeating on a daily basis don’t seem to effect actual users. It’s more of a tired troll talking point, envy is a terrible thing.
Exactly. This RAW compression issue has been really blown waay out of proportion. If you are a pixel peeper Sony is not for you !
There are a few pressing issues though like AF performance compared to cameras like the 5D mk 3 or D810 and a few other niggles like battery life and only a single memory card slot but the RAW compression is hardly an issue.
If they fix it sure it will be good but I won’t lose sleep over it and no one really should.
If your livelihood depended on your work, you damn right would be scared shitless to come back to the office and see that 11+7 compression fucked up your work.
“Actual users” amateurs, hobbists
Please show a sample where the compression has “fucked up your work”. Thanks.
Agree, AF is still s.th. to be desired, which I experienced last week-end again in dim light at a wedding. Two memory card slots are a life insurance for weddings, too. Malfunctioning SD card just happened a friend of mine with an important shot. He was able to restore most of the files, but his adrenaline went up a lot!
The shutter shock is a real and huge issue though. That A7r shutter is ridiculous to use
My A7r sits on a shelf and is only used for ridiculing itself against the D810, Zeiss, Nikon and Otus lenses. Where’s the envy?
“and is only used for ridiculing itself against the D810” <- right here.
You’re pathetic.
We found the envy.
Please dont put heavy Zeiss glass on the a7r. Heard the mount was a bit wobbly…
Actually this is one place where the Sony excels when one uses the Novoflex ASTAT NEX and a Novoflex adapter. None of the lens weight is on the camera flange when mounted on a tripod.
I use a Tamron 70-200mm f2.8 with LAEA4 adapter on my A7. No issues other than it being pretty uncomfortable to use.
I’d really like a thinner stack for better compatibility for M mount lenses, more than 14 bit color.
You can get a conversion done if you are keen. Not sure how native lens’s perform after that though.
Not going to do any better at 85 doesn’t rule out the possibility of equal performance with the 1.8g or 1.4g. Nevertheless, I placed a preorder on the 85mm. An AF prime with my favourite FL was missing so far.
Wide open ? At 1.4 ? Not even possible. Distortion ? Other CA. You pay $4000+ for an uncompromised lens and you get just that. When you pay $1200 you can bet there will be compromises.
I think you misunderstood my comment. I meant the comment by diglloyd doesn’t rule out to get similar performance of the 85mm lenses on Canon or Nikon with the Batis. From experience, my 85/1.8g is excellent and very sharp already wide open. Nevertheless, I hope for the Batis to trump it in backlight situations.
Lloyd is continuing with his review – “The Zeiss Batis 85mm f/1.8 Sonnar is a gorgeous lens that falls short of Zeiss Otus level in various aspects,”
Small grammar quibble: this doesn’t say the 85 Batis is as good as the 85 Otus, it says the 85 Batis is better than everything EXCEPT the 85 Otus.
It’s not a grammar issue. It’s deliberate. Admin knew what he was doing by making that the headline… he was creating misleading link-bait.
He’s never done that before. Why now?
Of course admin did.
Right. Because. Everyone is proficient in their third/fourth spoken language.
quibble with your quibble. The quote didn’t say that the Batis is better than everything except Otus. It said that there is nothing better than it. That leaves the possibility that there could be lenses equally as good. however, there aren’t many 25 mm options to compete with thr 25, so that quote isn’t as “big” as it first appears.
Sony Batis 85 1.8
Because when the Batis breaks, you throw it away. While the Otus will still be treasured lenses for decades to come.
my god, give it a rest about the otis. its like bragging about having a Bulgari veyron, or a $30,000 telescope to take pics from your back yard.. sure its an amazing car/telescope..but 99.9991 % of people arent going to buy it. so its not relevant.
My 85mm Otus paid for itself the first 2 weeks I had it. I make most of my money doing portraits. It’s worth every penny.
thats terrific, and i’m legitimately happy for you. you are that very small percent of people that can rationalize spending that kind of money on a lens. with that said, id wager not a single one of those jobs would you have been turned away from or not gotten the same pay were you shooting with a lens that cost $2-3k less and the majority of people here, while they would love to have the lens, probably would not drop the cash on it. ive spent 10 of thousands of dollars on photo equipment and am not a paid anything. i do it because i like it. IF i sought income for photography, id probably buy the thing too, because i can afford it due to not having a high cost of living and it would be for fun and the idea of the current level of out of the box optical perfection, but i dont need it, and im not going to call other lenses inferior to it, because they are not. its like saying the otis is shite compared to $100,000 nasa this or that or medical optics or spy satellite optics or whatever. or that a 120,000 car is better than a 40,000 car. sure, but you paid dearly for what you got. and thats my point, its far from modest to bash perfectly good 1-2k lenses over a $4k lens, its not apples to apples. if anything i think youre just pissed because theres a new great and very sharp lens in optical quality RANGE 1/4th the price of your lens.
Website, examples?
No
Because they don’t exist. You are a fraud.
http://diglloyd.com/blog/2015/20150518_1648-Sony-reliability-and-service.html
You have to wonder how long Canon and Nikon can sit on their hands as the mirrorless train goes by without them. Letting this Sony and Zeiss partnership grow for another few years without any competitive opposition is very dangerous no matter how big you think you are at the moment.
The first step in that direction would be accepting that their mirrorless line-up needs to be designed to compete with their dslr line-up. Unfortunately I suspect both companies will struggle with that…
As sony had to struggle with the same fact. The difference is that Sony is taking its chances
To be realistic, Canikon are present in a lot more countries than any other maker. So they can just make a mirrorless camera using the same mount and no one in those markets would risk on changing systems.
I wonder how many of my customers will go “pixel peeping”…
Pictures still look razor sharp at 4mp. I would not bother with these lenses, get the 24-240. That’s what all my pro-photographer friends use!
I hope these lenses work with Professional mode on the new A9. Sony should offer auto-downsample feature to 4 mp. At least they are compressing their images to 11bit, that helps speed up my workflow!
downsample to 4 mp was there since LOOOOONG time
If it is not labled as such, it is not a feature.
I like ur name dude
I think what Lloyd meant to say is Batis = sharpest cat photos this side of Otus.
This shows that zeiss Is committing to the FE mount as a pro level camera system. Good times ahead!!
yeah and who needs all the fancy autofocus anyway…. rotfl…… sony af sucks anyway so go for zeiss
Meanwhile Sigma has released a 24mm 1.4 for around $950…..
Heavy weight champion (2x Batis 25mm 🙂
ART one?
Ye
If you can stand Sigma colors, fine. I can’t stand that yellow cast. Give me Zeiss and Sony contrasty look anyday.
It’s not only about lens X or Y, it’s also about healthy competition and being able to have a choice. It also looks kind of stupid when Sony FE *only* has these Zeiss lenses that’s 1,5x more expensive then the competition yet doesn’t offer anything special. For the prices Zeiss are asking we need lenses that are more like the 55mm on more focal lengths.
And yes, MF-lenses exist etc etc but doesn’t work very well for certain situations. I’ve had several moments where AF would have made a huge difference in number of keepers or just being able to pull a shot off at all.
don’t forget to add LAEA-4 for $350 🙂
Yeah, the Sigma is a bit bulky though and with an adapter becomes even bulkier. :/
Someone actually have tried a7r + Sigma 24 1.4:
http://sulantoblog.fi/sigma-24-mm-f1-4-dg-hsm-art-kokeilussa/
Text in finish though (use google translate or just look at the images..).
It’s a Zeiss Sonnar design lens in the easiest to design focal length. It simply has to be stunning!
Pretty sure 50 is the easiest.
The longer the easier to make it sharp across the frame. But 50-85mm is the easiest range.
“Sonnar” is a trademark rather than lens design, and Zeiss are free to slap it on any lens they like to.
Please educate yourself first
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeiss_Sonnar
Zeiss is a serious company, they”d lose a lot of reputation if they just “slab it on any lens”. But I guess you can show me a good example.
I know this. Original Sonnar was telephoto with pupil magnification about 1.5x.
Here is sony-zeiss 24 f1.8 which bears no resemblance to original sonnar:
https://cdn.photographylife.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Sony-Carl-Zeiss-Sonnar-24mm-f1.8-ZA-Lens-Construction-and-MTF-Chart.jpg
I really, really hope the Batis 2/25 will proper manual focus with full stop at the ends.
This is a deal breaker for me since I dislike the focus rings that has no stops and scroll forever in any direction.
It does not. Zeiss stated Batis lenses are focus by wire without hard stops and a dynamic focus speed dependent on how fast the focusing ring is turned.
I guess there is no choice but to wait for the rumoured wide-angle Loxia.
Me toó here. Witing for 25 and 85 loxia like thid two…
I’m wondering what happened to Sonys lens roadmap. When can we expect an update? I’m really curious what happens next, especially since Zeiss came up with these lenses.
Do you guys wait what 24/25 and 85mm lenses Sony will offer, or will you get those Zeiss lenses without a second thought?
I would imagine Sony will be holding off on a Sony Zeiss 85mm FE. With AF & OSS and a price point below Sony’s a-mount 85mm, why wait if you want/need this focal length?
i think sony will come with easy choice lens FE 85mm/2.8 and so 24mm F/2.8
It would be nice to see some updates on that front. As soon as the 90mm Macro hits the shelves we’ll be completely in the dark on future releases. I think it’s time for another round of 4-5 lenses being pre-pre-announced.
I’m expecting a 135mm f2.8, a 24-120mm f4, a 21mm f2, and some kind of pancake lens.
There are an absurd amount of options for manual focusing lenses that can be used on e-mount. MF on FE AF lenses need only be an afterthought.
That didn’t even come close to answering my questions.
And while I respect your opinion that MF on AF lens need only be an afterthought, please respect my opinion to completely disagree with you. I use both AF and MF, depending upon shoot requirements. Don’t really like changing lenses to accommodate that.
Update on Batis review – “The Zeiss Batis 85mm f/1.8 Sonnar is a gorgeous lens that falls short of Zeiss Otus level in various aspects”
Add in the fact that it only mounts to Sony’s lossy and blurry mirrorless line, one has to wonder how much better IQ this lens could produce on a Nikon d750 or D810.
Thanks for that wonderful contribution of inflammatory trolling.
Happy to oblige.
This site is called Sony Alpha Rumors. You do know what site you are visiting right?
Great then get a Nikon D750 or D810 and lug it around and move on. No one will miss your brilliant insights over here ! 🙂
In the meanwhile we Sony shooters will continue to take photos with our lossy and blurry mirrorless line.
Duct tape will do man. perfect match for those nikon pipes.
Read the blog – much to be ashamed of – https://sonyvnikon.wordpress.com/
If you dislike the A7R (a camera that is notably cheaper than a D810 mind), why do you have it? Why don’t you just sell it. For money. Before the A7R II launches and its value takes a hit?
Holding on to it just to “Ridicule” it seems awfully pointless…
Agreed 100%. You can do everything right and Sony compression may (and often does) make great photos unusable. It’s never worth the risk.
Where has Lloyd said that Batis is as good as Otus?!! Aren’t you putting your words into his mouth? This is what Lloyd has said:
“The Zeiss Batis 85mm f/1.8 Sonnar is a gorgeous lens that falls short of Zeiss Otus level in various aspects”
That is funny. It is so hard to even demonstrate the compression. 3:1 viewing of long exposure star trails. Nicely arrogant statement about pros. The vast majority of pros (portrait and wedding shooters) will never notice. Even landscape shooter will be hard pressed to notice at 30×24 (24 mp) and 4″ of viewing.
I am curious as to how the Batis 85mm compares to the Nikon 85mm 1.8G lens. At half the price of the Batis it may be as good or better.
The Nikon is a very sharp lens. As sharp as the Nikon 85mm f1.4 G. But there are reasons people still buy the f1.4 version for much much more. The rendering of the f1.4 G will be preferred by most people and while I was blown away by the f1.8 sharpness its rendering was average (to me) and the reason I wanted an 85mm lens was for some kick ass bokeh.
Still some testing to do. If I didn’t have the Sony warranty I’d get the sensor glass removed by Kolari vision. But I’d still be stuck with a camera that doesn’t have 14 bit color. Besides most of the loss is already cooked into the A7r. It’s like a Jaguar on a fire.
Why would I be pissed about a focus by wire lens, with distortion and CA that isn’t really stellar until f4 ? Practically any lens out there including a $17 KEH Minolta MD 1.7 shoots quite well at f4 – 5.6. When you buy and use an Otus, it’s so you can get the same performance wide open as you do at f5.6. It’s an artist’s tool. Not a p&s goofball lens for an 11+7 bit camera.
I am a wedding photographer and so yes my livelihood depends on my work. I have had plenty of shots ruined due to my own screw ups, camera shake, misfocusing by the camera, corrupted memory cards, crap lighting, flash misfiring and many other issues but NEVER from a 11+7 compression.
Andrea I think a tiny bit of English idiom has confused you: “Short of Zeiss Otus you’re not going to do any better at 25mm and 85mm” Means that Otus IS BETTER, but that nothing else is.
And? Where does he state Batis is as good or better?
You mean SAR? He changed the post as a lot of us pointed out that’s not what Lloyd meant..
Yeah, but 24 1.4 is pretty …….. ……… ………. awesome. 🙂 A 24mm that actually have good bokeh…. for $950 (inc tax…).
When I moved from Nikon, the 85mm f1.8 was the lens I was most sorry to see go – eventually. I kept using it on my A7 for some time. I owned Nikon lenses costing a lot more, but that was the one I always liked the most.
All I ask of the Batis is to be as nice as the Nikon and I’ll buy it. However, with OSS and Zeiss optics I feel it’s going to be another step up from the FE55 – and that was already a game changer for me as it was.
all wonderfull lenses (art); but i didn’t bought one alpha 7 series ti put that kind of things.
I don’t need a lot of lenses. The 25mm batis seems to be just amazing with a weight for a7. The 55 is bigger than canikon but u have to comapre with 50mm sigma art for image quality and there again this is what i want on alpha 7. The 35mm 2.8 fe is just amazing for a all round lens. And then i ll have to make a choice between the batis 85 and the macro sony 90mm. Ill wait for used one ( which gonna quiet hard to get for sure). So i just need money ^^. I think the 25 and the 55 fits too 85% of my needs, just a lake of macro.
It’s not an opinion that practically every MF 135 lens with mechanical focus can be employed on an e-mount camera. Also, how could I answer your question regarding the responsiveness of the MF ring on a lens that isn’t shipping yet?
480g seems ridiculous for an 85/1.8
Batis 85/1.8 is maybe good, but so is Nikon 85/1.8G, and 3 times cheaper. And you can adapt it to any system – unlike the Batis.