[UDPATE: You’re thinking to switch to the X. Then save up to $1,400 on the XF lenses and X-E2 (or X-E1, X-PRO1,X-M1). See this crazy deal here.]
I’m sorry, that’s no leaked image. It’s just… I had some time to dream!
As I told you 2014 could be the year when Fuji goes full frame. But I would like to hear from you what kind of crucial features should be taken into the account for a new FF X cameras. This for example is my list:
– Price under $2,500 for the body only
– Hybrid Viewfinder is a must
– New generation X trans FF sensor with a minimum of 24+ Megapixels… and phase detection pixels all over the sensor and not only in the center for super-fast focus also on the edge of the image.
– Weather Sealed and full metal body
– ISO dial
Ok, what about the X-PRO2 or PRO1S? I’m working on it… it’s the most complicated rumor I’ve ever worked on. So, lemme put together the different data points and then I’ll tell you more.
it’s almost weekend… enjoy it!
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250 Responses
-Max 20mp Χ-Τrans sensor
-Price ~2000€
-Hybrid Viewfinder
-ISO dial @ top plate
-At least 2 customized Fn buttons
ISO dial? great idea… added it on my list too!
ISO dials are double-edged swords.
How so?
You are losing several important features when you can’t store different (Auto-)ISO settings in C1-C7 customer settings, anymore. I am also amazed that only a few people seem to know about and use these practical features. I’ll have to write a column about it, soon.
If you have an ISO dial, just add an A for auto iso and have the specific settings for it in a menu. Then it would be best of both worlds. I think an ISO dial should definitely have a lock.
Low price & hybrid VF are mutually exclusive.
+1. Gotta stay sensible here. Also, there’s the question of size: compared to other similar cameras, the X-Pro 1 already is pretty big relative to its sensor size. Would you really want a 36x24mm “nostalgia frame” camera if it’s as big as a G690?
I wouldn’t expect a FF X-Pro to be larger than the APS-C version. Of course, adding more dials and weather sealing could result in size increases, but I expect Fuji to stick with the current concept. Down the road, the could also offer a FF version of the rumored DSLR type APS-C body.
This would be a good idea. Keep the next X Pro the same size etc so the Xpro remains a portable lightweight setup….and with the rumoured Dslr shaped body make that the full frame version as the egonomics of the Dslr shaped body would better suit the larger/heavier lenses that full frame demands.
Since I have used the G690, I would be willing to use it. With the clever lens design of the Fuji lenses, it could still be compact compared to the D800 or 5D. And if it designed on the G690 design, the balance and shape would be fine. That said, Ranger, that’s just me and I haven’t addressed your very good point of body to sensor size ratio. It’s tricky.
Display orientabile, attacco a vite sotto gli obiettivi più lunghi e pesanti.
Mirino EVF di ottima qualità. OVF è troppo costoso e ingombrante.
Lenses that will work on both FF and APS-C.
They would be much bigger and heavier, so that might not be a good idea.
To me, a lot of the charm of the Fuji is exquisitely designed small lenses … So I don’t know if I even really want a full-frame camera …
Must have a new line of lenses il a ff come out?
Fullframe, but don’t pack too many pixel, 16mp is decent.
Price about $2000
Hybrid viewfinder
Softer speed dial would be very nice.
Weather seal is a MUST-HAVE.
I don’t want a FF Fuji. APS-C strikes a great balance between image quality and size. Go to FF and once focal lengths start getting slightly long, Lens size gets huge. I also would rather Fuji concentrate on filling out the X mount than developing for a new mount, since the X mount is too small for a FF sensor.
Agree totally..I’m on the fence about jumping to Fuji-X, and am hoping they publish a new Lens roadmap soon to help make my decision easier. There are some obvious gaps in the current line-up – 24mm prime equivalant for example. (or a 75mm-200mm constant f2.8 or f4)
But it really depends on what they have the resources for. Can they continue to fill out the APS X -system, and do a new FF Xsystem at the same time? Or would it dilute their efforts and send conflicting messages to potential customers on which susytem to buy into.
I think Fuji would serve thier existing and potential customers better by having a more complete APS X system first, then to have 2 incomplete X systems.
+100. Contrary to forumbator fantasies, there’s nothing magic about the dimensions of 36x24mm… they aren’t any “fuller” than any other frame size.
I agree Fuji please stick with the APS-C its perfect in size and quality.
Fuji will continue to offer new APS-C system camera bodies and lenses. Expect an updated roadmap in early 2014. As I mentioned earlier, zoom lenses will dominate the roster, but there’s still room for one or two new primes, as well.
Any long ones? Of just yet more wide-angle?
Why don’t we just wait for the new roadmap?
We can’t wait till January ;).
I can! 🙂
“Why don’t we just wait for the new roadmap?”
Because I don’t want to wait two months just to find out that if I want certain lenses I need to move to/add another system.
I am pretty confident that Fuji will go up to 400mm (aka 600mm equivalent). It just makes sense to add a lens that works above the 55-200mm zoom. But you know, if you need 400mm now, just buy one, there a many third-party options that can even be combined with a Speed Doubler.
“if you need 400mm now”
Noooooo, I don’t even want something that extreme!
Just something roughly equivalent to the Canon 85/1.2 (not that shallow, just with the optical qualities of that) and to the Canon 135/2. So, the 56/1.2, but actually in my hand, and of very high quality, and a 90/1.4 or even 90/1.8, if it is sharp wide open and has great color and contrast and bokeh.
I have been using a Voigtländer 75mmF1.8 M-Mount lens for more than a year, very happy with it.
Someone else suggested a Minolta 58/1.4 (I think it was 1.4, maybe 1.2). I have been leery of going the adapter route, but thanks for the suggestion, will think about it! 🙂
Is it a sure fact that the X mount is too small for a FF sensor?
It’s different. I want a Fuji fullframe so bad. I have an x100s and it’s soooo fun to shoot. BUT…I tried leaving my 35mm lens at home for a wedding shot and instead brought my x100s for that range. And at the end of the day, I still use my old 5DmkII for wedding shots. Because the skinny depth of field a full frame offers is just too beautiful. And the dynamic range you get from bigger sensor (even though that camera is much older now) is just too much better. It all adds up to a more 3D feel and more “pop”, and you can get a dreamy shallow depth of field you just can’t on a crop.
The physics of light going through a full framed size lens and onto a big sensor is just _different_. You can’t replace that. The X-series might be fun as heck to shoot – I never bring my full frame along for non-commercial applications anymore – but a smaller sensor is simply physically limited as to what it can do.
Leica and voigtlander lenses are mostly ff and very few are “big”… ^^
They are small because they have no auto focus motor and no image stabilization. If you can live without that, go ahead. But a APS-C lens of the same focal length and speed will always be smaller than the ff one with the same specs.
+1
Ditto.
Square 23.6 x 23.6 x-trans 3 sensor would be the perfect upgrade for me
Agree!!! Cancel my post on lenses that would work on both. rsrsrsr … unless they can maintain quality, add just a weeeh bit of weight. I imagine/hope they can do a FF body without increasing the size a whole lot. If none of the above then I’m not interested in Fuji FF. I could just as well stick to my Nikons FFs and Pro glass
it must have a cropped sensor, like nikon d600, for use the no FF fuji-x lens!
I like it, hope it will delay production for one more year, too many new full frame now, cannot absolve all at once. I still like my X Pro1 and D600.
Lenses size will be the same, don’t worry about this, do you know the Leica lenses size
, most of them are small :o)
Most of them do not feature AF motors, and they are pretty heavy. Have you used M lenses? I certainly have, oh boy, they can be pretty heavy.
Today we are all girls that cant take heavy lenses???? What about contax, tell me… Weight size and ff is relly possible no excuses
Contax disappeared from the market. That didn’t happen because their products were too successful. 😉
Sony FF A7 is smaller than XPro1, and has a cheaper release price too! So why all the whining about size and cost? It has been _proven_ that its not an issue in any case.
While Fuji was busy capturing the bottom of the market, which might be surprisingly profitable for them, Sony simply made a better camera. I doubt Fuji will bother trying to be a market leader again … from my recent personal experience with a different brand of camera I would suggest that Fuji’s future will be to supply the “cheap calorie” market – the highest IQ to $ ratio.
Sony FF A7 is smaller but the lenses are going to be considerably bigger – as big, in fact, as the Canon and Nikon full frame lenses. Having a small body on a big lens does not equal small or compact system…
Sorry leroy but you may not have a long enough experience using really heavy lenses, do you?
I guess if you really had it you wouldn’t use the “girls” argument the way you did…
There are plenty of alternatives to those who want heavy lenses … Small and light is more of a virgin market for Fuji.
After all, more than half the market is girls! Surely they could use a camera built for them?
(The author of this message is 51 years old and could use a lighter camera than his D4. Looks like a lot of others are in the same boat.)
I totally agree. For Contax Zeiss designed phantastic lenses. Small, well built and exceptional IQ. They were much better than Canikon according to tests. I would really like to see a comparison of the C/Y 1:1.8 55mm Planar which is dirt cheap on ebay with the new one. Whatever took Contax out of the business it was not their lenses.
I used to be a C/Y photographer, but I am not aware of a Zeiss Planar 55mmF1.8 lens for C/Y. I only know 50mmF1.4 and 50mmF1.7. And those aren’t dirt cheap, you typically pas around 300 Euros for a used 50mmF1.4 these days.
FAST lenses. None of the Sony slow/small strategy. People love the X mount due to the large selection of FAST lenses.
Also would like to see in body stabilisation along with what admin said, however I would be happy with a good quality EVF, no need for OVF.
+1 on the fast lenses
Fast FF lenses are large, heavy and expensive, so there’s a compromise that has to be made.
The new default response to your comment now reads:
“Yes, I know that what I want is impractical, but one can always dream, right?”
When I posted a reply like Rico’s I was labeled a troll. Lmao. But he’s right.
This is not specially FF related but it might be a nice idea for the whole x-series:
wouldn’t it be nice to set the minimum shutter speed in autoISO with the shutter speed dial? Only problem: Another way to change shutter speed from manual to auto would be required, but the ‘A’ position would be free for an extra stop.
Once we get minimum shutter speed for all models of course. 😉
Santa may come early this year.
So, we can expect another firmware update for the X-Pro 1/X-E1 in the next few weeks? That would be fantastic, especially if it includes minimum shutter speed settings in auto ISO…
There might be some announcements on 28NOV. Better save the date.
– 24+ Megapixel
– No FF but APS-H size would be better if existing X Mount supports this size
– Highest Zoom capable Hybrid Viewfinder located centraly and parallax effect minimized.
– XE-2 Core Futures implemented of course
– More Dynamic Range (HDR support for JPG)
– Accurate and fast Autofocus, specially with real tracking like a DSLR 🙂
– Weather Sealed and full metal (magnesium) body
– 2,500 USD range is OK
– 1/3 step selectable range for shutter speed
– Electronically controlled remote shutter please…
good list
That is what I thought would be best originally. However, since Fuji buys its sensors from Sony, and Sony doesn’t produce APS-H sized sensors, I doubt that will happen. If the existing lenses could cover a 1.2 crop sensor, that may be a sufficient size (nearly FF but with smaller lenses)…
I love the idea of the FF but losing use of all of the current X lenses or having to use them in some sort of cropped mode is of no interest to me. That’s what my Canon gear is for.
At a price point below 2500 USD, Fuji would have to sell more than 100,000 units to barely break even, that’s way more than the X-Pro1 sold in the past 18 months. So below 2500, the only question is how big the loss will be that would result in developing and marketing such a camera.
The sensor needs to offer at least 36 MP in order to deliver 16 MP in crop mode when used with APS-C X-Mount lenses. An X-Pro2 that doesn’t at least deliver X-Pro1 IQ in crop mode with legacy XF lenses would be even less popular.
Currently, no 36 MP sensor with built-in PDAF exists in the known universe. It remains to be seen if and when such a sensor (especially one with AF pixels filling the entire sensor area) becomes available from Sony and how it performs.
In order to make use of 36 MP, the usual 3 FF prime lenses that accompany the camera will have to be high-end products, which makes them rather expensive.
The organic sensor appears to be years away from maturity, so any camera that is introduced in 2014 and 2015 would have to rely on Sony sensors.
I expect any FF system camera from Fuji to use Bayer CFAs in order to ease demands for processing power. I expect it to be available w/o an AA filter (like the A7r).
Orginally I wrote “price for body only under $3,000″… but then I thought that the Sony A7r, 36 MP, costs $2,298 body only. So the Fuji should not be much more expensive. But hey, to get an FF with “fuji-flavour” is worth to pay the extra bucks!
Full frame with phase detection pixels all over the sensor… lemme dream ;).
Anything is possible. The leap that Fuji has made in the last two years is titanic in scope. I’m dreaming too, Patrick. 🙂
🙂
Rico is 85 1.4 prime (something equivalent to 135 F/2 or so) in the works??? This is my favorite Focal Length for portraits
+1!
What is for you the “fuji-flavour”, if I may ask?
But how would Fuji adapt the X-mount if it they would have to create a new mount? I doubt Fuji is going to increase the flange distance but as such it becomes impossible to create an adapter for a smaller mount.
Good point. Honestly, I am happy with APS-C sensor to keep the entire system lightweight. Having a FF means that they will need to re-design entire lens systems which will surely be as heavy and bulky as the D-SLR lenses :(.
I have mixed feelings about an X-Pro2 with FF, I like the idea, but we’ll have to get all over again with lenses. Anyways, I’ll probably take it as soon as I see it!!!!
I will happily take one, too, if only to write a book about it. 🙂
Hope it’s a body-building book: “How to Go Back to Lugging Around a 25-Lb Camera Bag.” Because a lot of us have said goodbye to that and are happier for it.
You can’t have bigger sensor AND hybrid VF AND upgraded electronics AND full range of fast fixed-focal-length lenses that cover the larger sensor AND all the other stuff without everything being bigger and heavier.
You’re absolutely correct. And I predict this will go down like Obamacare….in flames due to lower sales volumes. But that’s just my .o2. I’m happy with the current offerings.
I guess I’ll just print the book in full-frame size and charge three times the usual price.
I’d like to see a large FF sensor that will produce at least a 16mp image in crop mode for use with existing glass. I’d also like to see a card slot (or two) on the side, faster image buffering, better battery life, pro level auto focus system and a larger high resolution view finder.
No video.. It’s a waste of software and hardware space! I’m a photographer, not a videographer.. I don’t care to much weather my 5D II had it and definitely don’t see the point in it.. If I wanted a video camera, I’d buy one. Put video in the consumer cameras but not the pro..
Good point. The future of pro video is 4K and companies like BlackMagic (http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/) are already in command of the market.
As a photojournalist I like having video function in my camera. The last thing I want is to lug around with another camera just to capture video.
When the 5DMKII was released it made my work ALOT easier, great picture quality and a decent video function.
Adding video won’t change much in the overall vision, it’s really about “don’t want it, don’t use it”, there are people that would like to have that feat availble if they need and denying that just because some people don’t want IS an actual waste of money. To lose consumers just because of that is just stupid.
When you live on your own Universe it’s hard to put yourself in the place of another person but have it crossed your mind that it’s not only videographers that would want video? That there are also people that like them both? OR people that prefers photography but sometimes they would like to shoot an occasional video? Not having video pleases just one type of narrow-minded person, making a system just to please these people is a shot in the foot.
No videographer would go to Fuji even if it had video, or at least not because they want top notch video, but they would because they like photography. Stop this nonsense. Whatever you think that Fuji would save by not putting video on it is much, MUCH less than they would by losing consumers.
Go buy Nikon Df instead.
Think about this. Since the birth of digital, and the evolution of photo and video into one camera.. Has the price of photography dropped? Yes.. Do only a handful make a living from it? Yes.. Do you get clients that ask does your camera shoot video too?? My answer.. No sorry it doesn’t but here’s the number of a guy that is excellent with shooting video! And it’s not that I don’t want the money.. But I don’t know what in doing.. Photography and videography are two different things and just because a device is capable of both does not mean the person using it is! And besides.. The little amount I would have made from that client just quadrupled because I referred some one that will refer me to his clients when they want photos and not video. So let’s not ruin the industries because a device is capable but we are not.. A PHOTOGRAPHIC Camera should be for that.. Let canon and Nikon duke it out as to who can put the most worthless crap into a camera and Let FUJI build us the best quaility PHOTOGRAPHIC tool. Oh and Nikon DF is a joke. It’s got more buttons than the international space station.
I agree with you on the Nikon DF. It’s almost ‘steampunk’ in design. Wish we could add images. 😉 Nikon’s price and weight ($2,750 and 760 grams) vs. Fuji X-E2 ($999 and 350 grams) will attract who?
To add to yours…
Dual card slots
Faster card write speeds
Faster operation speeds (shoot + any other menu operations including playback)
Tripod mount aligned centered with the lens mount
AF-L moved closer to the center of the camera for a better grip
+1 On the faster write speeds. My Nikon is 8 times faster flushing the buffer to its CF card slot than it is to its SD slot, so I would suggest at least one CF slot.
Your Nikon writes 720 MB/s? Wow!
You don’t seem to notice that less and less cameras are using CF cards. SD cards are as fast and need less space, especially when camera size matters.
I don’t care what kind of memory as long as it is fast. If SD cards are as fast as CF, someone needs to tell Nikon how to do it.
By the way, as pathetic as my Nikon is with an SD card in it, my X-E1 is far worse.
UHS-II is imminent, so I guess (probability 99.99%) that the next Fuji system camera model will support UHS-II.
But this isn’t about an X-E1 or Nikon, it’s about cameras following the X-E2, which is already much faster (almost 2 times) than an X-E1. 😉
Need two sd slots because all sd cards are now monolithic and wiring is as thin as human hair. Squeeze then too hard and could be damaged. The companies that recovery data no longer recover from sd cards any longer due to design of them.
I’m not an electrical engineer, nor have I researched sensor technology in depth to understand the limitations of the current APS-C16M X-Trans CMOS II. The ONLY point of attraction for an upgraded sensor in my mind is the possibility of images with *substantially* greater dynamic range. Is that impossible for a theoretical CMOS III? If the human eye can’t resolve additional detail for a selected output, more detail has little-to-no value. I’m simply UNwilling to purchase, carry, or work with ANY camera which either costs or weighs 2X-3X more than the X-E2. I don’t need it nor want it.
Seriously, what’s up with this FF fixation? Everyone seems to be acting like FF is something of an epiphany when compared to an APS-C sensor.
I really like the form factor, size and weight of the current bodies and lens lineup. I’d much rather see Fujifilm committed to the XF mount.
A big +1 from me, Paul.
Please stop this Full Frame madness. FF and digital will achieve nothing apart from inflating the price of everything and diverting development resources. In the old days of film, FF gave you improved grain – that’s all, and somehow we all survived with ISO 400 – 1600. These people wanting FF – why? Perhaps they want to make those stupid photos with minute depth of field, oh how I hate them.
So my Fuji FF wishlist will be an APS-C sensor and an EVF that’s as good as a 1980’s FF camera.
Right now the internet is buzzing because of Sony’s A7 and A7R. The reason is because its the only other compact full frame besides the overpriced Leica cameras if Fuji can cram the specs you listed above into its retro bodies, you’re talking about a serious competitor to those M cameras. Also add the quite shutter that I have on my newly purchased X100s and split imaging focus and you have a modern rangefinder with an excellent lens (Fujinon) lineup to give Sony and Leica a run for its money.
Finally someone mentions a rangefinder!
A quality rangefinder system would be a dream come true:
-Fully manual Fujinon lenses (including a 45mm prime), no auto-focus (unnecessary size and weight)
– rugged, weather sealed body
– 20+ MP fullframe sensor
– accurate, fast and reliable spot-metering
– and one feature that sadly probably wouldn’t resonate with many potential buyers:
No back display, just an ISO-Dial; not everybody wants the distraction of a display, photographers have done very well without them for decades.
For the X-Pro 2:
– Optical viewfinder with phase-defection pixel overlay at its center for manual focus
– X-Trans 2 sensor with PDAF
– new 30 or 35mm XF lens with distance scales
– Scratch-resistant back-display with more accurate color reproduction
– fast processor for quick operation
– less cluttered interface and menus
I think both of these cameras would immediately appeal to a wide range of pro-photographers.
Finally someone mentions fully manual focus lenses with no auto-focus! thank you Jay. ( I saw a Fujinon rangefinder lens in LTM by the way. it looked minty with aperture tab. )
A compact XF 23mm 2.0 and 35mm 1.8 would pair nicely with the current X family. whats stopping Fuji?
Fuji goes “Rangefinder style” but then gives us lenses that belong on a DSLR.
And faster flash sync as well.
Bingo.
– PDAF on the image sensor
– High speed flash sync
– 2 control wheels
– I don’t care if it has a hybrid viewfinder or not.
– GPS
Since Fuji will most likely introduce at least be 5 new APS-C X-Mount camera models before they can announce a full-frame version, discussing specific features at this time is rather futile. It’s clear that a full-frame X-Pro2 would (have to) incorporate all key features of these X-Mount cameras.
If the X-Pro2 comes with high-speed flash sync speed (say 1/1000), I’ll be definitely buying it.
Seriously? FIVE?
So they are either going to flood us with new models, or you think it will be a pretty long time before we see a FF…
Sure, I reckon there will be annual successors to the X-M1, X-A1 and X-E2. Then there is the rumored DSLR type camera, and of course everybody expects the “real” X-Pro2 (or 1S) with APS-C and at least X-E2 performance in 2014. That’s five cameras, according to my limited math.
Oh, so at least another year…
How could it be earlier? The sensor I think is required doesn’t even exist yet.
When do u think they will release a successor to the X-pro 1?
+1 on all of these, especially the high speed sync. I don’t need a hybrid viewfinder either, but I do want a viewfinder.
I doubt that Fuji would go under $2,500. Fuji went kind of expensive when they announced the XPRO1, I think that Fuji should and will adopt the same strategy here, there is no reason for Fuji go head-to-head in prices with Sony, they should deliver higher quality and price it as such, even more with hybrid VF.
But Fuji’s lenses should be cheaper than Zeiss and of course, keep the already known high quality optics. I know that Fuji will choose better their focal length and aperture and I would like to see the same strategy, starting with just primes if needed, filling with zooms later.
Sony also has more cameras to announce and I think have a more premium ones, Sony splitted its features between both cameras A7 and A7R, which is weird, one has some feats that the other don’t have and vice-versa and there isn’t even a logic behind it. If Fuji can manage to just to pu together a well thought and a better built one, that’s it.
The RX1 cost more than $2,500, how is Fuji going to price its fized lens FF? The only unfortunate is that Fuji will have to create a new mount for the ILC, the good is that they may be able to optimize to FF settings. Looking forward to.
That is supposedly really hard in a smaller body. If you read on sonyalpharumors today interview with designers of Sony A7 they are saying the hardest part was to put 1/250 Xsync shutter in the small body. That is a challenge, that obviously you can get away with in X100s with leaf shutter, but for plane shutter, apparently it is not easy in a small body with a larger sensor.
hahahahaha… I was just writing about the size issue.
I really don’t think that Fuji should go small just for the sake of that if they have to leave behind important feats – like Sony is willing to.
This just explain why Sony, well known for big FPS on their cameras had to limit it to about 5fps. All latest Sony cameras has 10~12fps, but the A7/R don’t.
I really don’t think Fuji should compromise over miniaturization, go all in on the photography front, go premium.
For me, the question is: how big would a Fuji FF be?
A lot of people went to the X System because it had the right size and balance.
If it would become considerably bigger, I really think that Fuji should keep investing in APS-C and have the FF solely as a premium camera, it’s like Leica, but cheaper.
There is no reason to Fuji to compete in price with Sony or even in market, not all people will be able to buy premium, but people will be willing to, they are going to value it.
Fuji won’t be able to compete with Sony when it comes to make profit on units sold, Sony has much more visibility and marketing power. Therefore, Fuji has to charge more to have profit and I really think that Fuji should not sacrifice that just for the sake of going FF.
So, if you are going to charge more, make it premium. There are tons of people that would love to have a Leica-like Fuji, as long as Fuji could really deliver premium feats and feel. People that value a better build quality, people that are willing to pay extra for something that just works as it should, something that doesn’t get in the way of photography.
I think that Fuji can deliver that, they have a better understanding of photography than Sony will ever have. And those purists whiners that felt hurt by Fuji expanding their X cameras line up, they would be overjoyed by having their premium niche camera, win-win! hahahaha…
I don’t care about full frame X with huge lenses. I am asking that they put Image Stabilizer like Olympus in the next X model (crop 1.5 is fine) so I can mount all my other lenses from other manufacturers, and the picture is stable when focusing, that is all I am asking. Oh and higher Xsync Flash rate. These two features will make XE3 a dream
– 24 or 36 megapixel full frame, phase detection AF
– hybrid VF
– 35mm f/1.4 (can be a fixed lens, no X-mount needed!)
– weather sealing
– integrated ND filter
– DNG RAW-files
Why go full frame when your building a whole platform around apsc? Especially when APAC sensors are getting better and better. My dream camera would be a xpro2 with Phase detect, 20 or 24 megapixel xtrans sensor and weather sealed. I would love to see a weather sealed updated 35 with a linear motor
It would be more of an image project. The X-Pro1 was all over the news, everybody talked about it, but nobody bought it. It’s the same large-sensor cameras: lots of talk, but tiny sales compared to APS-C and MFT counterparts.
Want the basic :
– Weather Sealed and Strong Body
– Excellent FF sensor with large pixels (and not many <22Mp) and amazing dynamic range (16 bit?)
Price under $2000 with kit lens. 12-14 Mpix with additional pixels (as they were in Fuji S6-Pro) responsible for the dynamic range in B&W photos. That’s all – I’d be more than happy with this :).
To me a hipotetical FF x-pro2 doesn’t make sense. That system is so cool also thanks to the small dimension. I can hear people sayng “..Leica is so small..”, yeah, but they have not autofocus.
I think that a much smater move could be to design a FF fixed-lens camera. Then they can make a sort of mini FF system adding converters like the X100 wide angle converter. Maybe it is possible also to make a sort of tele-converter.
I agree and I do expect a FF version of the X100 (probably 24 MP) in the future, it just makes sense, and it would be a cool addition for those photographers with FF DSLRs. Leaf shutter and all.
yes, at least according to rumors already published here, the first Fuji FF camera should be a fixed lens one… but intercheangable could also come in late 2014 / early 2015.
I have put a lot of cash into my X-Pro1 and X-E1 with lenses. I love the lenses that Fuji has made for these cameras. I really do not want to start from the ground floor again and buy a new series of optics for the new camera. An X FF is a dream come true, but not at the cost of obsolescence of some fine glass.
You wouldn’t have to. Either don’t buy the FF body or use legacy lenses in crop mode.
Good point. Alas, I’ll be saving for a new camera and lenses. The X-Pro1 remains a staple.
I agree. Why full frame for Fuji X? I have a camera with one of the best full frame sensors as rated (D600). Fuji X is very close in low light in terms of noise. In terms of DOF, I just mounted my Nikon 85 1.4D on it and took photos that many confuse with taken by a full frame camera
http://brodsky.smugmug.com/Portraits/Portraits-1/Portraits-at-Huntingtons-Nov-2/i-CNgBpBh/0/XL/DSCF9021-XL.jpg
All I am asking for is IBIS.
which adaptor do you use to put the Nikon lenses ?
Is it easy to operate and focus ? Does the metering work well ?
Thanks.
I used a $14 adapter that I bought on amazon. http://www.amazon.com/Fotasy-AFNK-Fujifilm-Camera-Adapter/dp/B007YPED8O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1385141148&sr=8-1&keywords=nikon+to+fuji+adapter Very easy to use, and you can mount all your Nikon non-G lenses. For G lenses, use this adaptor http://www.amazon.com/Fotodiox-Adapter-DX-Type-Fujifilm-Mirrorless/dp/B008BBI72I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1385141203&sr=8-1&keywords=nikon+g+to+fuji+adapter
everything works great, just focus manually as there is no electronic connection
thanks !
or a metabones speedbooster works too
I would be totally interested in a Fuji full frame, but in the form or the X100s with a 35mm 2.0 or 40mm 2.0, perfectly matched to the new 41mp sensor, phase/contrast detection with a powerful AF drive to move those heavy lens elements fast enough for impressive af speed, we have seen the limits on the Sony RX1, I could hear the af drive struggling as it was focusing, Fuji can definitely do it, c’mon Fuji engineers, this will be the ultimate dream machine, I am putting my order in now 🙂
I thought we already left FF and all the weight and unnecessary cost to welcome the revolutionary X Series. Concentrate on making the current lineup better.
I do not want to go back to FF. My photos are just as good as the ones I was taking with my D800 and my computer certainly likes them more.
The current APS-C system really is the sweet spot. Balancing design, weight, size, cost and quality.
FF does cost more for companies to produce, but they also love the marketing fluff of Full Frame.
Patrick, The lenses which are now available using for FF..
Sorry for not reading all the other comments before.
regards, peter
I think an updated xpro 2 would sell really good as long as they don’t price it too high and put some features to separate it from the xe2 like dual card support weather sealing and maybe a faster processor. I would love to buy the xe2 but I really love the dual evf ovf feature of the xpro 1.
Or the best aps sensor or a digital gf670. Not interested in full frame compromises 😉
The sensor and The lens are the most important for me. Best resolution in low light ability and professional lens 24-70/2, 8. Everything else can handle a photographer. If it continues in retro hi -techFuji style of course.
Now I saw Michael in front of me, I’m different, I renamed the Michael 2
ISO Dial for sure. #1 on mine and x2 other X owners I know. We want full control on the top plate
One thing for sure…Fuji is reading our comments. For that reason alone, I feel good about the next step in the development of the X series. Meanwhile, I am doing a fashion show tonight in a very dark venue. I will use my X-Pro1. A year ago it would have been a focusing nightmare. Not any more.
I don’t get all the hoopla over a new “full frame” sensor. You do realize that means more money for the camera body and, developing new lenses to go along with it. The lenses will also be more expensive.
Wasn’t the point of the APS-C sensor in the Fuji X cameras to give excellent image quality, and to keep the size and cost down? Why would Fuji do this?
I want Fuji to keep the current sensor and develop more beautiful fast, fixed maximum aperture, lenses. That would make more sense to me.
I realize they may develop a fixed lens full frame camera to compete with Sony, but, I will never understand why these camera companies feel compelled to try to duplicate every “new” thing that someone else comes up with. No wonder they can’t make a profit. 🙂 Just my 2¢ worth.
– no X-Trans 24mp no AA
– no ISO dial – fix auto iso instead
– mechanically coupled aperture and focusing rings – no fly by wire nonsense
– digital split image projected in the OVF
– solid build, sapphire glass on OVF, gorilla glass on the LCD
– tethered shooting
another vote for Split Image on the OVF 🙂 This feature would be insane. Although I do have to say more dials would be better and ISO would be a welcome addition.
This is more like an X nightmare than an X dream. It is a waste of Fujifilm’s resources to try and compete directly against CaNikon in FF. No one can break that duopoly. Any resources assigned to FF will be at the expense of APS-C. Fujifilm has a great niche going as a provider of high-end retro APS-C MILC. Please Fuji, focus on the X-Pro2, on whatever the mystery body is between the X-E2 and Pro line, on lenses, and on the accessories that make a system.
Stop with the delusions of grandeur and keep doing what got you such great free publicity in the NY times this week.
Stay the course Fuji, FF makes no sense.
I don’t necessarily want a full frame body.
I want a body that is as well built as a Leica M. Something that just doesn’t make me look at an M body thinking “mmm I would love to have one”.
Make it a real PRO body. Large high res back LCD screen, amazing evf and ovf, weather sealed, solid controls. I want a great AF and top notch fluid manual focusing (both on the body side and on the lenses). Of course top lenses (can’t wait for the 56mm).
I can live with cropped sensors. But as much as love the X Series, Fuji hasn’t yet come up with a pro body. I would probably pay up to twice the xpro1 price if they came up with something really amazing. This comes from someone who owned two Xpro 1, an XE1 and the X100s (the only one I kept with the XF 35mm lens).
Last thing. Give up all the Pro2, Pro1s, …. Just call it the “X” 😉
I am sure that Fuji would love to sell it to you and the 500 other people on the planet who would actually pay such a high a premium for this. Too bad that Fuji needs to sell more volume. They can’t really go the Leica route. I heard Leica is going to introduce a basic and expensive APS-C MILC based on the X Vario.
Ok, maybe I was not clear in the way I presented things. My point was mainly to point towards improving the quality, the reliability, the build and the AF rather than coming up with something brand new.
I played a bit Sony’s A7r and A7 at the Paris Show a few weeks ago and wasn’t that impressed. Therefore I’d rather have Fuji to continue building up on what they already produced so far.
If there’s a pro body coming up, then paying 1500 or 1600 USD for a body that I’ll use for commercial work is not unreasonable. Or am I completely off here ? I mean the 56mm will at be priced USD 1,000…
The rumored DSLR-type camera looks pretty “pro” to me if it materializes in the proposed manner.
I for one would definitely be interested in a ‘dSLR’ style body. Would be great for larger lenses and full-sized flash, be rugged, and still be lighter and smaller than dSLRs.
Rico,
What details can you pass on about the “DSLR-type” camera you mentioned Fuji is developing? I love the ergonomics and IQ of the Olympus E1 but don’t believe they will be in business in the U.S. in 5 years. They are losing money hand over fist. Too bad too. The E1 looks like a great camera.
You’d have to ask Patrick, he came up with the rumor about such a camera.
I wrote a letter to Leica about how they missed with their m9 they said they would take it under advisment.
Fuji is awesome! What would I love to see in a x-pro 2 would be.
1. CCD sensor or x-trans that could record the entire image at once not progressive as cmos do.
2. How cool would it be to have a shutter advance lever instead of using an electric motor. Thousands of images recorded instead of hundreds?
3. 16 mega pixels or 24 for better low light performance.
4. EV comp +/- 3 not 2
5. optical as well as EVF is a must
I’ve never yet had a customer ask me how many pixels were in my photos, and I don’t expect a customer ever will. I’m not interested in full frame cameras, I’m interested in beautiful RAW files that produce beautiful photos.
Fully professionally weathersealed metal body
20 megapixels
+/- 3 EV for HDR work
Phase detection so I can photo birds in flight
Longer and faster lenses (not bigger and heavier). A 200-400 and I’d be an X shooter for life.
I didn’t buy the Sony(s) because of the lack of available fast lenses. If you aren’t going to offer them, don’t bother with FF.
To me, a Fuji X-E2 with a 23 1.4 is more (full frame-ish) than a Sony a7 with a 35 2.8.
It’s not just to you. Laws of nature say so, too. 🙂
aps-h sized sensor to keep the form factor small
iso 100 when shooting raw
diopter
split image focusing
built in time lapse
less than 1500 for the body.
able to use any ttl flash
weather sealed
Can we please get some minimum shutter speed already?!?
Personally, I would prefer they just stay with APS-C, but make the fast tele-primes I want, the long-overdue 56/1.2 and a 90/1.4, with great color and contrast (essentially Canon L equivalents). Yes, I know they will be large, heavy, and expensive. Yes I still want them.
I would be fine with them adding FF at some point, but I will say now, I personally will NEVER, EVER buy into another system on the promise of ‘lenses to come’. I am actually looking seriously at going the other direction from everyone else here, back to a dSLR, to get the options I want in lenses.
Would love to have the next generation “X-Pro” with an improved OVF. Since there is already a digital overlay, it would be nice ot add a MF focusing aide or confirmation in MF through the OVF. A new improved EVF with a high refresh rate.
To me the APS size sensor makes sense, like the newer version in the X100s and E-X2, maybe pumped up a bit 20-24mp. Maybe the general public is calling too much for an FF, to make it a non issue.
Don’t understand Rico’s comment on the new expected roadmap. “As I mentioned earlier, zoom lenses will dominate the roster”. Aren’t there enough zooms already? Zooms just seem wierd ot me on a camera like the X series, but then again the general public.
What I’d like to see is 2 FF bodies including manual focus prime lenses…
One 35mm f/2 for the fujifilm X35 and one 50 f/2 for the Fujifilm X50
– same size, same design , same controls that x100s
– nd filter button
– Silent shutter
– black body/lens
– no AF, no zoom, no optical viewfinder
– best electronic viewfinder ever
– Iso 12800/25600 With Raw
– weathersealed
– very smooth and manual focusing
– ricoh snap mode
– 1599€ each
Fujifilm, if you do this, I’ll buy Fuji X35, Fuji X50, Fuji X28 and Fuji X85, I swear
I doubt that the guys in Tokyo are suicidal enough to offer MF lenses. That would certainly seal the fate of the digital imaging division that builds cameras.
Cosina / Voigtländer could.
Compared to mft I think Fuji still lacks a larger ecosystem of third-party lens makers. Zeiss and Samyang are not enough. Where are Sigma, Tamron and Tokina ?
We need cheaper alternatives, or simply lenses that follow a different philosophy.
If you really think Fuji lenses are “too” expensive you need a different system. Or use adapters or something. Care about image quality and not just price, OK???
It is the same with any system.
I’ll give you two other examples.
Fuji will probably never release a 23mm f2 because it would compete with its 23mm f1.4 and its x100 series. Yet I’m convinced a small cheap and sharp 23mm f2 would sell welll… A third party manufacturer coule make it.
Tokina specialized in making ultra Wide angle lens.They could bring interesting designs. 10mm f2.8 anyone ?
Quality/price ratio is not the only advantage of third party lens.
The maturity of system is linked to third party makers.
I don’t know if Fuji could be more open though.
The Zeiss cooperation has already turned out as a disaster.
A disaster ? Why ?
ISO dial, usable slow mo, articulated LCD screen, kit lens 24-120 (eq.).
Of Course just 24-120 mm.
I really like the image quality Fuji X delivers, prints being my goal. FF would mean even better prints and possible to print very large. (Have also a D800 and know the difference in quality between APS-C and FF.)
Above all a Fuji FF need to be fully mature and an excellent photography machine. I don´t doubt the IQ will be stellar, but the camera must be really responsive and the AF fast and accurate. Areas that needs further improvement in the current APS-C line up. (Just tested X against Olympus EM5 and the later is a MUCH better photography machine – and the Fuji X IQ is clearly better)
Fuji need to improve processor capacity in order to speed up everything.
Hybrid VF? Don´t know if this is a feature that will be relevant in 2015. Today´s best EVF are really good and will improve further. Don´t waist time end money on that Fuji.
Lenses: Here it seems Sony is starting to get what it is about – not just make a small body but also it needs small lenses to balance (part of the excellent photography machine). I know many scream about fast lenses but the difference between a 1.8 and a 1.4 is half step aperture, doubles size, double weight and double price…….
And yet many of us still want them! Why can’t we have small, slower lenses for the people who want lower cost, size, and weight, but still have fast, expensive, large, heavy lenses, too? You know, like, a complete system?
maybe because it’s more conducive to use small, light lenses on a small, light camera versus big heavy lenses on a small, light camera?
Just a thought.
Mmm, I see. So, if you want fast telephoto lenses, you should just stick with dSLRs? Is that your solution?
I agree. A complete system need a double track lens line up. Fast AND not so fast lenses. Like Nikon with the 1.4 and 1.8 series. The problem is Fuji is not Nikon…….
With their budget they need to start from someware.
I am not sure I would recommend, from business economy perspective, to build FF at all. Sony is two years ahead and will have mature cameras and a decent lens line up when Fuji brings their first model.
To be honest, i dont like the idea of a FF Fuji implementation in a X-Pro(ish) retrofuturistic body. Bigger sensor means bigger and heavier lenses, and this may cause a lot of problems in terms of ergonomics (grip, balance with huge lenses etc). APC-S X-Trans bodies & lenses are perfectly intergrated and balanced as they are right now, IQ is pretty close to FF, so there is no reason for Fuji to stretch a succesfull presence and spoil it out.
Although i would like to see the exceptional qualities of a FF X-Trans sensor, but mounted inside a dslr (or mirrorless) “beefy” body, with fast AF, tracking, a lot of fps, high sync speeds, etc-etc.
+1
APS-H
To be convincing a FF fujifilm camera should have a heck of high ISO capabilities and a stellar image quality whether the camera is a fixed or interchangeable lenses system.
Wow, what a list of responses in a short time. Here is my two cents. I see the evolution of the X pro as the flagship as one that has to compete with DSLRs and the new range of FF mirrorless. I also feel that it is clear now that the life cycle for the Fuji line is less than three years. Given that, they will want to push the limits of the product. Lastly if the X Pro does not go FF then we can see a large body camera soon with the DSLR features many want, maybe using the X-S marking.
For now X pro should have
1/8000 shutter
2 fn buttons
weather sealed
improved ISO performance not range
18MP as Fuji states quality over quantity
FF would be amazing but keeping the aps format will ensure faster sales for upgrading customers and I think that is really where they will go.
At least four new prime lenses at launch if FF (clearly manufacturing is able to fill the need) Maybe even a few with half stops???
Better accessories such as thumb up
Improved battery life!!!!
improve the startup for quick start mode
further improve manual focus
fourth gen X processor with even better DR 800%????
Expanded exposure compensation
price under $2500
For me to switch to mirrorless FF, my wish list is (highest priority comes first):
– Price: $1.8K max
– X-sync: 1/250ms or faster
– Equal X-E2’s AF and better AF-S.
– 1/4000s w/ built-in 3-stop ND filter
– Dual SD card + wifi support
– Keep it between 18 to 24MP + faster fps. Don’t sacrifice fps for higher pixel.
– Weather-proof body w/ better grip.
– Much improved RAW converter
– In-body IS. Oly can do it, so do you Fuji.
– Fast prime lens: 85mm f/1.4
– All-around fast zoom: 24-105 f/2.8 (nobody can do it yet, can you) at ~$1k
I’m a future Fuji X costumer for sure… Still waiting the beginning of ’14 to go with Fuji and looking (waiting) about a possible “x-pro 2” model. Working now with Canon eos 1d mkIV/X on a future x-pro model I would dream about:
– a bit more pixel like 18MP could be a must
– why not APS-H
– weathersealed
– improved battery life
– price around present x-pro1 (body only) not bad
– a more clean back design (something like the Leica M to be clear)
My thoughts, my point of view…
I do not get the lust for FF Fuji X Pro. The whole reason I got into the Fuji X cameras was to go
compact less weight to carry around I have a D800 and too many lenses and it’s a ton to carry all day. I can take my Fuji X E1, put two addition lenses in my pockets and I am good all day I just want the X Pro 2 with the improvements as per the X E2 and maybe a 24 mp sensor
Yup, agreed. That was my earlier point too. By following Sony’s path, it defeats the compactness of the mirrorless system. I doubt Fuji would want to redesign entire lens system to support FF as the fast quality lenses will be as bulky, expensive and immobile as what DSLR currently have.
Now, being said that, I am not surprised if Fuji upgrades the fixed-lens X100s to 2 FF cameras: (X200FF + 35mm) and (X200FF + 85mm) and keep them at ~$2K
yes, go FF. for those who think it’s going to be heavy, sony’s a7r shows that it not need be so at 465g versus xpro1 at 450g (850g for D610 with battery and SD cards). weather sealed, dual card slots, advanced AF capability, EVF/OVF hybrid viewfinder, much much better battery life, and video capability because it’s designed to be the alternative to Nikon’s Df. we will understand if the x series of lenses become legacy lenses and can only be used for cropped mode. APS C will still continue. Just give Fuji the cropped and full frame options of offering to the photography world. any advancement on the FF world will still be shared by the APSC world.
An interesting option would be a square sensor. It might be less than the length of the FF but a little more APS. So that the total area of the square sensor would be equal to the full frame. I guess that this may work fine lenses are already in the system. RAF root makes full frame. Converter software cuts off the side or the top and bottom part – turning frame 3 \ 2.
An M mount (with contacts for new AF lenses) would be amazing. Put in an RF mech, along with the hybrid vf, and you get a digital Hexar RF, a camera that becomes a true Leica killer.
Under $2000 would be nicer in my opinion. Although the only competition is with the Sony A7 and Leica M – keeping the price under $2000 will blow Sony out of the water.
don’t think it will happen. APSC is fine for mirrorless imo as a compact camera. Fuji lens is quite big already.
make sense for fixed camera though. wait for the used price of RX1 drop to rock bottom and then will pick one up if under $800.
Defeats the porpoise.
Why on earth would I want a so called ‘full frame’ X Pro? Bigger, heavier, more expensive, bigger heavier more expensive glass?
Besides witch, who decided 35mm format was ‘full frame’? Certainly wasn’t when it was introduced. Maybe if we ask real nice Fuji will made a digital equivalent of a Mamiya 7. Now were talkin’ full frame!
There’s some serious examples of wishful thinking here, especially the price. “Yes, I’d like a camera with every pro feature imaginable, I’d like it to fit in my shirt pocket and I won’t pay more than tuppence for it.”
IBIS
Dejar Friends, I feel kind of lost. I’ve Been shooting Nikon for almost 30 years and own a lot of Nikon glass. About 6 months ago I got myself an XE-1 with the 18-55 and the 35. I must say that the relief in weight has been tremendous, and let me say, I’m the kind of guy that carries all 40 lbs of gear with me and travel to the ends of the world.
I do my own printing up to 17×22 and frankly have not seen anything wrong with the 16MP files from Fuji. Post processing for anything that your print yourself is really important for files of any MP size. If it goes to be displayed on the web, or on my iPad, it does not really matter, that is the MP size of the body.
This whole thing about MP, FF vs APS reminds me of the arms race between the US and the former Soviet Union.
All I want today is a system that performs up to par to what I want.
If Fuji will launch a new FF line of glass for FF, then for me it would mean a new investment to get something I already have with Nikon. But if Fuji remains with their super high quality APS size glass but more MP, say 24 or more, I’ll be very happy.
For Fuji to avoid Kodak’s pitfall, it better sticks with the current X-system and improve upon that.
Going to FF is a very high risk road that it does not afford like its friend Sony. This article from the Nikon guy will give us a bit more reality of where Fuji stands in the digital market.
http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/new-york-times-tackles.html
Best luck to Fuji & to Fuji owners too 🙂
“You don’t expect the New York Times to publish misleading statements” – really? 😎
I have an X dream….how about giving us a “manual focus only” XF 50 mm equivalent lens to match their “retro” styling, instead of the very “DSLR looking” lenses. make the lens fast and compact with aperture tab. make your “compact Fuji camera more compact. slim and sexy.
I want a better camera whatever the size of the sensor. APS-C is fine if they improve detail, focusing accuracy and speed, DR and high iso. And not so expensive an average guy can’t afford it. Oh, and no more bitter surprises such as the lack of a viewmode button or the in-camera flash so close to the lens you get red eyes a lot (X100). And don’t forget we want a beautiful camera, not a Sony-esque brick.
– 60 megapixels X-Trans super CCD but CMOS
– Autofocus like the Nikon D4
That is all.
So where’s the poll asking whether Fujifilm should offer a full-frame X-Mount system in addition to APS-C, or rather stick with APS-C and not offer a full-frame X-Mount system? 🙂
All I want right now is an X-Pro 2 with a 20-24mp sensor…FF would be a great addition, but I think they should focus on improving the performance and image quality for their X-mount cameras. An X-Pro 2 with a larger, brighter EVF/OVF, fast and accurate AF, etc would be fantastic…
I guess, “full frame” and “weather sealing” are magical buzzwords that will always fascinate the crowd. It’s been a decade since a sensor-shift IS has been introduced… But somehow almost no one seems to be interested in bringing it to the X world.
It’s like iPhone and Android – users dream of greener pastures. Root your Android, install an iOS theme. Jailbreak your new iPhone, install a few hacks and enjoy your (ugly as piss) kawaii icon set that you could’ve enjoyed on Android without all that hassle…
Same syndrome goes with the X system. I hear full frame camera owners whining about fantastic IQ and light weight of the X-cameras, and how they’d love to switch, but… (there’s always a big BUT involved). Then I go here and see (presumably) X camera owners whining about how they’d love to go full frame, BUT.
Come on, people.
full frame doesn’t win the game! We get fantastic f1.4 lenses and i really hope that Fuji puts the money in making the current x system even better and faster. om-d like autofocus and the built in raw converter as software for my pc would be nice. I love the Fuji jpgs and the built in converter is awesome. I just want to use a big screen.
I strongly suggest that Fuji should take Sony’s approach, that is, to make Exp. Compensation work in A/P/M mode. As a night street photographer, I am always forced to expose to Exp Compensation = 0 by using higher ISO, which is not intuitive at all.
Need to be able to mount on camera stand/ tripod and be able to take out the sd card and change the battery with out having to take it off the tripod or take off the quick release plate.
Please, EVF only. OVF useless for serious work.
More likely X-Pro 2 will be a 24mg APSC sensor. But how knows full frame could happen.
But needs 5 axis in camera image stabilization system like Olympus EM-1 I would like to see “tilt” viewfinder like the GX-7 Panasonic. or a full articulated rear view screen. Wi-Fi would be also a good addition. As those are major features consumer seem to really like.
actually, a bigger form factor might not be needed for a bigger sensor. look how far forward the sensor plane is. move it back a couple of millimetres and you have a larger sensor that can accommodate the current lenses.
Unfortunately, you wouldn’t be able to focus them. The back focus range is very narrow.
IBIS is all i want. I think by doing so the lens wont need to be as big since OSS are not needed?
No need for a full frame sensor. I’d be spending all the money I don’t have if they simply went up to 20+ megapixels in resolution (mostly so I can stop using Perfect Resize for larger prints) and took things up a notch with a new generation of all else that is already fantastic in the X-Pro1.
Again no need for full frame. I’d trade that for a weather sealed body and some magical true rangefinder and auto focus hybrid technology (is that even possible?). Imagine that!!!??? Want a true rangefinder experience? Have at it! What is it getting dark or maybe you just feel like giving yourself a break? No problem, flip that switch and you are back a phase detection auto focus wonderland! Keep all your fuji x lens and add a few to the family as you wish.
That’s a freaking unicorn…That’s what that is 🙂
The key feature should be a APS-C Sensor.
If the necessary sensor isn’t even available yet, and perhaps Fuji hasn’t even decided to make one yet, it really is pointless to talk about: regardless, a full frame X-series MILC is a year or more away. So, who cares right now. And, since Fuji is still working on developing a fast AF system for APS-C, it is doubtful that a full frame version will have fast AF.
I think Fuji should focus on developing higher performance for its X-Pro/X-E series cameras, and continue to release high-quality lenses to support the system. We still need a fast prime 90mm and a fast, fixed aperture telephoto zoom.
If Fuji could produce a 1.2 crop factor MILC and the current lenses could cover that size, they should introduce that instead of full frame, as it would be near full frame with the same small package.
So far, Fuji has not released a single prime that isn’t compatible with the OVF of the X-Pro1. They even made the 14mm work. So there’s no prime beyond the 60mm limit of the OVF.
Oh, I see. Although the OVF is limited to 60mm, I would still like to see a 90mm f/2, as I would just use the EVF then. I think users would be very happy with a 90mm f/2.
nonsense, for Fuji to go FF they would have to rework the complete lens range. CSC are not about FF
By the time I get all the XF- lenses I want, the organic sensors will be available. The IQ question will be moot. Then all we will hear are endless rants over razor thin DOF.
Fuji X-Pro 2 wishlist from working pro photographer:
-Exact same body and button placement, size and design
-1/8000 second available
-Larger battery (by moving SD card slot) or double battery life with same battery (DSLRs are doing it–see Nikon Df)
-Separate SD card slot
-2x-3x speed in processing everything with double buffer
-NORMAL continuous high mode where shutter is touch sensitive–light touch, one pic taken, medium touch 3-4 frames taken, full touch at maximum frames per second in high speed mode just like a DSLR
-Weather sealed
-MUCH improved EVF (like Olympus O-MD E-M1
-Even Brighter OPTICAL finder
-RAISED shutter speed dial (instead of flush with top of camera for easier gripping especially with thumbs up grip in hotshoe
-Rubberized bottom plate
-ZERO lag when going from rear LCD to EVF for immediate, decisive moment shooting
+1
After reading all comments my proposal is not to go for FF. instead improve the APS-C system. I also believe Panasonic and Olympus should stay m43. Each sensor size has its advantages and shortcomings. We have three big elephants in the business; Canon,Nikon and the calf Sony. They can do everything when they decide to do.
The rest are very marginal an should concentrate on their niches.
While the Fuji image quality is top of the non-FF field, there is lots of room for improvement of the photography machine. Comparing with film cameras like olympus OM and my favorite, the Contax 139, usability os really poor. Tak asimple thing as whell for exposure compensation. On a Fuji its is very easy tounintentionally change it. Shit! The old camera wheels are easy to change – and never change unintended.
Then we have performace and responsiveness – very poor even of the X100S shows improvents Fuji has a way to go.
In body image stabilization is a must! Why buy an expensive lens and get motion blur?
Rotate/flip screen – every camera sould have that.
Finally I believe the X-trans would work even better with increased resolution – 24 mpix please.
No OIS in this universe helps against motion blur.
Sorry, I meant Camera motion blur!
We need the green watercolor fix and 100% manual video controls.
I love the system, but would like the current 100s setup in the next X-Pro version and, for me, focus tracking. I am tired of lugging my Canons on sports assignments and having a whale of a time getting fast action in focus with the X-Pro. I have, with some success, used the 100s for basketball when I am under the basket or just to the side, but tracking would make it almost perfect. Of course a 70-200 at 2.8 or 4 would just about clinch the deal if the other stuff fell into line. FF is not a must for me, but focus tracking is!
I think its true to say that the Fuji APS-C X series is now mature, moving into FF is an obvious step and one I would welcome.
I would love to see a FF digital version of the 680III but this is never going to happen so I will settle for an XE2 styled camera with inbody AS plus some excellent Fuji lenses. I would love to see inside the camera the organic sensor which Fuji and Panasonic are jointly developing but I would settle for a +36MP X sensor.
Just remember Fuji will be competing against Sony and the introduction of the A7r is just the beginning. Sony will be very busy next year with some very interesting cameras like the hybrid Z mount camera which will autofocus any lens you attach to it even the new Zeiss Otus 55mm lens. They are also developing a high megapixel stacked organic sensor. Then there is Sigma who I expect are also working on a FF Foveon sensor.
The stakes are high but the rewards to the winner will be high
Need 100 ISO RAW to work with fast 1.4-1.2 lenses. Need 24 MP to use the potential of perfect 14-23-35-60 fujinons
As of today, a 24 MP APS-C sensor with on-sensor PDAF does not exist in the known universe. Maybe Sony pulls it off in their NEX 7 successor that is expected for easrly 2014. If(!) that happens, Fuji could use this sensor after a 6 month waiting period. This means if(!) such a sensor appears in March 2014 in a new NEX 7, Fuji could have a camera ready by Christmas 2014. Of course, X-Trans would be pretty much useless at a pixel pitch of 24 MP APS-C. Plus, the current 24 MP design has serious issues with adapted lenses in concert with short flange-back designs. So I’d say that putting a current 24 MP APS-C sensor into an X-Mount camera will most likely result in problematic IQ with non-native M-Mount lenses (and maybe even one or two native XF lenses, like the upcoming 10-24mm zoom), again sealing the fate of Fuji’s digital imaging division.
If 24mp will not work with the X-Trans, what mp count would be optimal?
It is not the pixel count per se, it is the fact of having or not having micro lenses optimized for mirrorless designs. The Sony 16MP sensor as seen in the Nex 5n/ Nex6 and maybe the Fuji is optimized for short sensor to lens ditances.
The Nex-7 sensor with 24MP was clearly not optimized for that, which is why it has very colourful edges with lenses wider than 30mm.
Hi everyone,
I think if Fuji wants to attract more serious / pro users, a rugged, weather sealed body and lenses would be really helpful, after all the X range is meant to be used outside. This seems to be ranking very high on people´s lists for improvements.
What I´m generally interested in in a camera is IQ, responsiveness, high levels of customisation to individual needs and consistency of the system.
-I´d like an X-trans sensor, probably around the 18-20MP mark with improved DR and noise performance.
-I can imagine, it would lead to higher production costs, but I´d love to have the option to shoot in square format in RAW… (I´m humbly waiting for a digital 6×6 sensor camera… Dream on, I know)
-No AA filter
-High ISO settings also in RAW
-Dual SD card slots would be useful when time matters or for back up.
-Definitely a more resourseful battery and faster chargers!
1/4000 at least for those bright Australian days and a built in ND filter, better 1/8000
-EV comp. +/-3
-A fully articulated, touch responsive (when in LCD mode) screen
Articulated LCD screens still seems to be regarded as a consumer feature. At least if we look at Nikon and Canon pro bodies.
My first digital camera was a Sony R-1, which had a tiny LCD screen on top of the EVF. People today would probably laugh if they´d see it, but the fact that it is fully articulated gave me an entirely new realm of possibilities. Very liberating!
Please give us more options to customise all relevant parameters, settings and Fn buttons to suit individual needs.
I love the EVF/LCD button on my X-E1 and think, it is not a luxury but very practical and needed for a fast workflow – please give it back to the people. I don´t want to miss it. : )
I haven´t seen any comments regarding multiple exposures yet, but I do like this function and I use it very frequently. I´d love having the option to shoot in this mode WITH RAW output and with a higher number of possible exposures, as well as with higher ISO settings and in different ratios.
For me the combination of a Fn button and an input dial for changing the iso settings works fine,
I support the idea of more stable, firm exposure / exp. comp. dials though.
I haven´t shot with the X-E2 yet and don´t know how the improved AF behaves, but generally AF speed is important for me and I´d love a very responsive camera with much higher processing capabilities, then I currently experience with my X-E1. This is probably one of the most important improvements, I´d like to see in a new incarnation of X-E1 or Pro1.
-A silent shutter would be very practical.
-How about lenses with AF and real MF? : )
I use my X-E1 almost every day and I enjoy every moment with it.
As is the case for so many other people, using it is a constant source of joy and, personally for me, recreation for my mind and senses. I can totally concentrate and be in the moment, it is in fact a little bit like meditation.
Knowing that he guys from Fuji´s X team read, listen and address the issues we talk about in countless posts, is already a reason for me to support them, and I know that my money is well spent. They deserve every cent we spend on their products. I am looking forward to an exciting X future!
Sony A7r have CDAF only, at the same time A7 have hybrid AF. Want to have 24 or more MP body ( FF or APS-C ) with EVF only and 100 ISO RAW.
I do apologise for my rather long post…
CDAF is reasonable fast now, no need to live with 16MP waiting blazingly fast hybrid AF. Fuji, please, give pros 24 or more MP body.
Since we will likely need to wait another year for a full frame MILC from Fuji, hopefully they will release the X-Pro 2 with an APS-C sized sensor soon.
practically speaking it would seem in vain for Fuji not to produce a reasonably priced X pro 2 for their rather expensive XF lenses.
it would be nice to see a “rangefinder” styled manual focus lens that is fast and compact to pair with their classic styled cameras in addition to their current very “DSLR” looking lens line.
Using M-mount lenses on X cameras defeats the purpose of their compactness by having to add a lens adapter. And the auto focus XF primes like the 23mm are not exactly slim.
I don’t want a full frame Fuji camera.
If I was going to buy a full frame camera right now I’d just get a Nikon D610 for under $2000. It’s a great camera and already has a fantastic line up of lenses. Fuji needs to stop putting out new models and take a minute to focus on what they really want to do.
I own an X100s and love it. I haven’t jumped over to an interchangeable lens X series camera because they haven’t worked out all the bugs yet. The interchangeable lens X series cameras are great, I’m not trying to take anything away from them but for real world pro use they still don’t meet my needs. As soon as they do I’ll switch over.
Bottom line is when a fully thought out and tested, pro level, apc-s equipped XPro-1 replacement camera comes out I’ll buy it. For Full Frame I’ll look elsewhere.
Fuji your current X series cameras/lenses are awesome but just short of perfect. Please focus your efforts on the current system.
i understand exactly what you mean “real world pro use.” Ricoh needs to make a XF-mount unit with X-trans II for there GXR. this is why,
Fuji still needs to come out with a manual focus only lens that is fast and compact. For the sensor on the X cameras is not set deep into the camera to offer compactness with M-mount lenses. however Fuji’s aps-c does lend to compactness that i would pay money for.
Yep
My biggest issue with switching over to the X series cameras from my Nikon set up isn’t the lack of a FF camera in the line up. (Customers don’t know if shots are taken with a FF or APC-S)
I currently shoot part time and have a “real job”. I’m getting myself set up to go full time next year. I currently cannot switch to the Fuji X series cameras and it isn’t because of image quality or “Oh I need a FF camera to shoot pro work.”
It is the
a. Crap manual focus by wire that is useless in real world shooting.
b. Lack of a real world pro body with the features and usability expected by people that get paid to shoot for a living.
I want to fully switch over but I don’t see it happening.
1) full frame organic bayer or stacked unit. Not xtrans!
2) pure EVF, not useless hybrid gimmick
3) tiltable back lcd with touch
dnxhd,prores 422
hdmi 10bit 422 output
I hope Fuji don’t make a FF camera, i hope they develop an aps-c with organic sensor that mount the same lens as the fuji x pro1. Organic sensor can be the future and i hope fuji don’t leave this way. The system now is really good, need some improvement but is really good. FF would raise costs and i don’t think seeing all the existing alternatives we are in fuji for FF.
Fantastic colors, impressive 3d effect in some condition, zeiss quality lens, camera design….
I think FF with X-trans will be stunning, but for me, only on the paper, organic sensor will be better.
I would also prefer the APS-c organic (24MP with superior DR and colour) to the FF conventional.
As their lens line is pretty much complete except for 1-2 fast tele primes and maybe a shift lens.
But if they launch an FF, this would be my favorite:
– 24-30MP X-Trans (like the Sony 24 version, just X-Trans)
– new larger mount that allows wide lenses with no colour cast. The E mount is actually so small that the edges of the FF sensor are “outside” the opening circle – if you don’t believe look at an A7 with no lens attached. Fuji should then make fully electronic adapters for current XF lenses for crop.
– the Fuji colors
– leaf shutter lenses
– lenses on par with the current XF lenses
They probably will – if they go FF – start with an “x200” and a 35mm F2 lens. I’d even like to see 3 versions: one 28 or 35mm, one 45mm (closer to “true normal”) and one 80mm. All F2 or faster.
If you check and evaluate the optical performance of the full frame design Carl Zeiss ZM & Contarex & Leica M lenses in my book, then I cannot imagine a photographic motivation for full frame.
The sensor in today’s X-Pro 1 is already near perfect. The XF lenses are the very best.
Furthermore what can Fujifilm gain with a full frame? Not much really except being able to offer the same as the competitors. So … this is a marketing thing only.
For the photographer it brings nothing extra he cannot have with the current X-Pro 1 and XF lenses
All together my advice would be to Fujifilm: put the effort in an APS C improved X-Pro 1S an litte bit better hybrid viefinder and last but not least continue to introduce special XF lenses
reiterate what Jan said, continue to introduce special XF lenses. How about a manual focus, fast and compact 50mm equivalent. What’s stopping Fuji from introducing aps-format rangefinder styled lenses?
The XF 35mm and 23mm are good, however they are relatively large.
I would pay for a compact 23mm f2 manual focus lens with aperture tab.
Dear Daniel,
Consider the Contarex Distagon 2.8/25 mm
ø 68 mm
Length 60 mm
weight 360 grams
Its score: 77 in my book compared to the 1.4/35 mm XF has the score 92
The size of an XF 2/35 mm I cannot imagin it to be a lot smaller.
If considering a Biogon design be aware of the low corner performance
Regards,
Jan Vogelaar.
Jan, thank you. I did consider the distagon 28 2.8 because I need to fill the “35mm gap.” (im using a Ricoh GXR for my M-lenses) however if I used it on a Fuji X it requires an adapter, then you loose compactness and yes, image quality wide open near the edges.
Yes I cant imagine a 35mm2.0 or 1.4 rangefinder style lens couldn’t be much smaller in size but than the current XF35. I believe it would be a nice option in the XF line.
This might be comparing apples to oranges but look at the size difference between the X100’s lens and the XF 23mm. Could Fuji produce a 23mm 2.0 rangefinder style lens for the X system that is close to the size lens of the X100? I would buy that lens. Would you?
I agree too that a manual focus only XF35 may not be much smaller than the current XF35 however it would be smaller then a summicron + adapter. not to mention better wide open performance.
I wonder the thing…What’s stopping them from making aps-format rangefinder styled lenses. Talk about an untapped resource…There’s a market fo people that want and are willing to pay for quality digital rangefinders but are not willing or can go as far as paying for Leica.
Nikon had a major campaign for the release of the Df and they are selling people on the concept of “pure photography”. Fuji can (and already is) selling a lot more than the concept of pure photography with the X family and particularly with the X-Pro 1 and X100/S.
That can only get better, especially if they start opening up to rangefinder styled lenses. Full frame can come in the future…It would be much nicer to see them milking the aps-c family for another year or two making it a solid family and then moving on to full frame.
Orfeu, I agree. It would be a quality digital alternative. The lenses and system would become a legacy in its self.
(* above I said aperture tab, I meant focus tab)