Today Panasonic launched the first mirrorless interchangeable lens camera with 4K recording feature, the GH4 (specs at Amazon). It has a 10bit 4K output over 3G HD-SDI and records on fast SD cards at 200mbit/s. It’s certainly a well made camera but Sony is about to answer soon.
Like in one month from now Sony will release their first 4K camera. It will be A-mount although I don’t exclude there will be an E-mount 4K camera too. The image of the Sony 4K camera has been shown last year:
The 4K Sony displayed this year at NAB show (Image courtesy: Engadget).
Expect a 4K marketing bombardment soon. And after that 8K will follow (in 1-2 years). It never ends 🙂
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The mount shown on the Image looks much more like an Arri-Pl mount with some sort of A-Mount adapter inside of it… .
It is the Sony FZ mount with an a-mount adapter. The FZ mount is compatible with PL. Check out the Sony F5 / F55 if you want to know more about it.
Sony is sleeping …. And usually later then the market needs
Admin- do you work for Sony in any way? This post really makes me wonder…
I’ve always wondered the same thing.
Andrea work for Sony. Many of his posts and the type of sensoring he does harmful for Sony…proves it.
4K & 3D would be even nicer 😉
4k video wort of require 2 sensors in the camera. It can be done with one lens and a prism but its crazy expensive and requires a very large lens coverage for the offset required by the chips.
Plus 3D as expected is declining anyway.
Sony’s prototype is pretty ugly. I hope the new model looks like the A99
+1 The a99 and a77 look great.
It’s plain & utilitarian looking, but the two shoes, FZ mount and larger body (with larger battery) would make it very functional. Plus that little antenna might make do something useful (radio control, strong wi-fi output).
antenna? you silly it is for distance measurement.
Lol, whatever it is I’m sure it serves a purpose versus being decoration.
you are not very smart as i see. it is just indicates were sensor plane is.
http://www.eoshd.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/sony-f55-360-degree-view.jpg
Yes, from this moment on my aspiration in this waking life is to attain a modicum of the grand intelligence that you command. Once I can recognize a little widget on a thumbnail of a web site, I know I will have achieved this goal.
youre welcome
admin, does this mean the a79 can do 4k?
Unless another rumor is circling the drain here it would seem likely. Dare I hope the a-mount FF for later in the year isn’t the 4k model? I have no interest in 4k and expect Sony to want to milk early adapters heavily for it.
Even if camera’s and smartphones are ready, computer resources sure are not unless you can pay for a Mac pro with an almost unlimited! amount of SSD storage (if that could be attached that is).
Nice to be future minded though en in that sense 4k is always better than 2k.
2-4 years from now ‘4k video’ will repalce ‘2k video’ for sure.
SSD is not the bottleneck – the processing power is. Even on today’s computers you can edit 4K with proxy clips, so no worries there. It doesn’t hurt to have your footage in future-proof resolution either way.
Proxy editing only addresses the difficulty of dealing with high data rates during the editing process. It does not, however, resolve data storage or transfer.
I use A99 cameras just for stills and have 8Tb of pictures after less than 2 years. 4K movies would make that look like a couple of days work!
Unless you have huge storage facilities and the very best networking it would be a nightmare. Fine for professional broadcasters, but almost meaningless for the rest of us for many years.
The beauty of 4K/8K right now isn’t the ability to watch it 4K natively, that wont be widely available for another couple years. But the ability to downsize and maintain the additional sharpness.
Sony’s XAVC codec is brilliant and hopefully would come to a camera like this.
The Problem isn’t necessarily processing power, which is cheaply obtainable (for high-end video pros) but Storage for the long-term. As a single project could be 1-2 TB worth of space.
This is why I find it unfortunate that Apple has dropped optical storage. BD-DL is a reasonable archival format, which could be cheaper than it is, but not without widespread adoption. Apple has designed a computer that can process massive amounts of data, but omitted a real solution for getting data in and out of it.
There are 2nd party solutions, but support for those going forward is always questionable. Hard drives have never been an acceptable archive format. I think I could deal with spanning 1-2 TB across 10-20 100GB discs, but I really don’t think my projects would be that large. An average project might be 30-50GB in 1080 at the end, so I would expect 4k to be 200GB tops. That’s 2 disks. No problem.
Raid Arrays are fairly cheap now and fast enough to work off of if necessary.
Ive been using raided HDD for backup, i’ve never really had problems. I don’t keep anything that long though.
Apple wants blu-rays / DVDs to die because of their conflict with the downloading / streaming services they offer. However, external blu-ray burners do work with Macs.
The trouble with Panasonic GHx is that the Panasonic Lenses are either too slow and too long or priced so that they are cheap only when compared to Full frame lenses, even though the sensor is smaller than APS-C. The Panasonic OIS isn’t optimised for video either: it tries to hold a still scene in video (i.e. as if it is shooting a still) rather than the Sony solution which simply damps motion when shooting video and is *much* more useful.
I own the GH2, and use it exclusively with Sony Alpha lenses. So I’m guessing if video is your thing then you should go with the GH4 Or pickup a cheap GH2/3 as I expect Sony to disappoint with bitrates, and you won’t have to buy new lenses if you are coming from crop frame Alpha.
Rather than picking up a GH2 it makes more sense these days to pick up a Panasonic G6 for cheap:
http://www.eoshd.com/content/10824/panasonic-g6-review-the-gh2-redux
For video I doubt you would ever want a Sony still camera because the always leave off the features that a video person would really really want/need. But you are right about the micro4/3 sensor… I was almost drooling about this camera until I realized it was that stupid micro4/3 sensor… I played around with that size on an Olympus but when you adapt a good full frame lens to it the multiplier is so high that it would only make sense if you were trying to shoot objects from afar.
with Sony cameras there is an extra crop in video mode. shooting video, the Sony aps c sensors turn out pretty close to mft in actual size.
there are a few exceptions, for instance, somebody said the nex 5n uses the whole sensor in video.
There is a reason for stabilization in the lens instead. 🙂
the crop is there with stabalization turned of as well. i don’t know why. i thoghut it had to do with sensor readout and downsampling algorithms in video.
Yes they do, but you simply can’t get the DOF with Panasonic lenses. Granted, you can get there with an adapter and CaNikon or Sony Lenses, but you would expect at the price level to be able to create film like video using only Panny kit, but you can’t.
a99 dont crop with steadyshot off. pretty good camera but with overcompressed codec
right, I meant aps-c. sorry.
There is a reason for in lens stabilization, but unfortunately Panasonic OIS is useless for video as it seems to be optimized for stills. Try doing a hand held video pan with OIS and you will see – it tries to keep the frame centered, and actually makes things worse rather than better in some cases!
All I’m saying is that Sony may not be top of the heap when it comes to video DSLRs, but, if you think that its Panasonic that is top of the heap, think again.
All they get right is high bitrates (and perhaps some of the smaller cameras like the LX7, which is surprisingly good for video). Everything else is worse than Sony, and because Panasonic footage is so hard to shoot flat, it probably isnt as much better as many on the internet tell you (I am making this conclusion based on owning both a Sony A77, Panasonic GH2 and a couple of smaller Pannys, and tried video on the 5D2, although I don’t own one).
just gimme dat cheap full frame a mount – all else is irrelevantttt
That’s what I was thinking. The Alpha 99 competes with the Canon 5D. Sony doesn’t have anything in the same class as the Canon 6D. I want a relatively compact full-frame A mount body that fits below the Alpha 99, not a digital movie camera. The Alpha 7 shows that full-frame can be made available for €1000 or not much more.
Time for Sony to bitch slap the competition. DSLR’s dead? I don’t think so. Move aside e-mount users cause here comes the ALPHA.
+ 1
Alpha-male wolf in your avatar is greatly appreciated. 😉
I share your sentiment, but 4k is not really what we need in ALPHA…
It’s possible that this camera might not be branded an “Alpha”.
Sony “might” brand it with an “XDCAM” badge!
I have a very hard time believing that Sony will allow the “XDCAM” and “NXCAM” division to market this camera against it’s very own “Alpha” department.
I think Sony will steer this camera away from the still photography market and try hard to challenge Canon’s C100/C300 and C500 line.
Is this a 4K replacement for the “old” FS100 camera?
i hope Sony 4k is aps-c sensor and come with 10bit internal, 120fps. With the current A-mount aps-c and full frame video, it can’t achieve sharp video like RX10 which can read every pixel of sensor for video. I hope Sony can achieve it this time, i’m very happy with the picture taken by my a99 but video sharpness make me dying.
Sony….. please give an answer to Canon L lenses or Fuji primes lineup and then you can fight on the 4K frontier as much as you want.
The two are totally independent and different develpopment teams.
Which team do you work for?
It’s so strange to think the Sony will release a “DSLR-styled” camera body like this at NAB.
Will Sony Pro/broadcast group market this camera?
Will Sony Pro/Broadcast group support this camera?
If you have with this camera, will you call Sony New Jersey and talk to the same people that support “NXCAM” and “XDCAM” ENG equipment?
Wow!
I believe that this new camera must be fully mirrorless to succeed. I seriously doubt that the Pro video industry will accept an SLT pellicle mirror for autofocus. Pro videographers are way too critical to allow something in front of their sensor like that. (mirrors to fly in the video world)
You can see a zoom rocker in that picture. It’s clearly rigged for video.
Wow,…I cant wait for NAB!
Not really,it’s a video camera in disguize like what Canon did with the 1DC.
Same concept here but more obvious since it has de FZ mount like the pro cam F5/F55.
FZ mount is not really a mount but a kind of “lack of mount”. It’s a screw-in mount with pins connectors that allow you to put in a PL, A or E mount.
Mybe this is how Sony achieve the rumored Hybrid cam.
And yes you will probably deal with pro broadcast team like for the F5/55.
Other questions:
Will this be a typical “Alpha” sensor? 24mp…36mp? If so that will be bad for a “Pro” video camera.
The best scenario would be a super 35mm sensor with possibly 10-14mp. (something in a native 4k ratio) Just enough for debayer and to keep miore down and low light up. Pro don’t want heavy amounts of over sampling and line skipping is a real bad thing today.
Will it take photos? (I hope it’s 100% optimized for video only)
I don’t think an E to FZ mount adapter is possible, the FZ mount is flange distance is 1 mm greater than E mount. A- mount shouldn’t be a problem, though oddly enough Sony does not make or sell an A to FZ adapter. Though they’ve shown either they are working on it or it is possible.
the GH4’s downside is the 2.3x sensor crop in 4K mode, I much rather see a super 35mm sensor 4K camera
Crop out of a crop sensor. Brilliant.
Looks like Sony will have an easy job beating crap out of GH4.
+1
APS-C or S35mm (A-mount or VG System) for vidéo… 🙂 please
“And after that 8K will follow (in 1-2 years)” – it’s kinda like saying at the down of 3D TVs that 4D TVs will come in 1-2 years. Sorry – won’t happen. Adoption of 4k sets is way too little to move onto a next step.
Yeah that’s a total pipe dream. Maybe in 5 years assuming 4K takes off.
8K is already here and in use in the upper end. it’ll trickle down faster then you think.
The GH4 has not been launched yet. It was announced. They did not specify a release date or price.
Finally the world best digital camera has been released by Panasonic. This will be the most stunning digital camera ever. I hope Sony will strike back soonest. Otherwise, this beast from Panasonic will easily eat every flagship camera in current market as breakfast !!!
Right… So how is it different from the GH3 for still photographers? For me the body would be too big and ugly and for photography alone too expensive for the smallish sensor.
Huh? How do you draw that conclusion?
It certainly isn’t/won’t be the world’s best still camera and comparing this to what are truly the world’s best video cameras is laughable.
+1 !
Not to say that the Panasonic GH3/4 takes the best pictures, but if you know what you’re doing, you can take exceptional photos with them. Until my recent upgrade to the Sony a7R, I’ve been shooting my fashion and commercial images almost exclusively with Micro 4/3 and with the GH3 in particular.
You be the judge in image quality: http://www.fotosiamo.com
– Joe Gunawan | fotosiamo
i think you proved your point!
Smoking dope? This is far from the best still camera or best video camera… Ever heard of Red or Blackmagic? Either one has 4k video cameras that would put the GH4 to shame… maybe it is the best MFT camera but no way I would think it was the end all be all camera
Sony should not waste time for A-mount. This system is dead. The future is FF mirrorless with 4K support. I won’t be surprised if its IQ is much better than even A7r.
As of now, the A-Mount system is very much alive and has great potential for expanding Sony’s share in DSLR market. What Sony shouldn’t be bothering with, is marketing BS like 4K that nobody needs.
“Nobody?” Plenty of people need and want 4k.
+1
Remarkably, the most common content delivery system is a mobile device of some sort. I wonder what the iphone 9 and Galaxy S9 will be supporting in a few years? 8k ipad super retina mini? On a more interesting note, look at what the iphone 5S can do in the hands of professionals:
http://nofilmschool.com/2014/02/apple-1-24-14-iphone-ad-commercial-jake-scott/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+nofilmschool+%28nofilmschool%29
What real artisans, craftspeople and artists can do with that camera is amazing.
iPhone 5S video gets blown out of the water by the Note 3 output, either in 1080P (much more detailed thanks to quality sampling) or even better, 4K.
You kind of missed the point of the post. There are superior pirces equipment (to what you own) and the pursuit of the latest and greatest is going to be never ending. Great artistry and craftsmanship, however, is something that gearheads don’t always aspire to achieve.
I got that point. I in turn pointed out that for similar amounts of money, you can already get 4K or very high quality video from a device that fits your pants pockets too.
The iPhone video, while executed well, still leaves a lot to be desired (mushy). And I wouldn’t call professional production teams using tenths of thousands of dollars worth of external gear, a good example to prove that it’s not all about the gear…
There are plenty of other amateur videos to prove that.
Like I said, you can use a lot of equipment to create art. Heck, they used to shoot movies in black and white. With film. What’s missing is that many people worship at the altar of technology. They pixel peep everything to death, complain of every piece of detail that isn’t just right. Compression algorithms, codecs, etc. Instead of just enjoying the fact that they have equipment that will allow them to express their creativity. Sadly, people sometimes equate having the sharpest lens, the highest resolution, the highest ISO rating as the sine qua non of imagery. If people would only take the time to learn about lighting, composition, the elements of the creative process.
And while this was really a full blown production with expensive equipment and lots of logistical support, it’s still neat that Apple created an ad using the 5S exclusively. And managed to make something artitstic to boot. A fitting homage to what the Mac embodied. Computing. For the Rest of Us.
The commercial was well scripted, the shoots well planned. I am sure they could have shot the whole thing with a GH4 or what have you. The point was to inspire people with the world around them. I think they did a great job. You can market technology all you want, but at the moment, it is still the person that makes it all worthwhile.
Yes, but modern equipment enables things that weren’t possible before. Like shooting a scene with just candle light.
And why shouldn’t sharpness and “cleanness” matter?
I didn’t say that it didn’t matter. I am saying that many people make it their holy grail, before they even try to understand fully what they can do with what they already have. It’s like that guy complaining why his D7000 only takes blurry pictures indoors. Ask him about changing the aperture, shutter speed, ISO, what have you, and they don’t have a clue to what you are saying. Then you show them a little button that activates the pop up flash. Guess what? It’s a little stiff, because it’s never been used.
Technology is great. Art, however, has always been more than the sum of its parts.
And I say I might have been inspired, had the phone been used in a more realistic manner, without giant stabilization rigs, trolleys, mechanical arms and what not. There’s not much to learn here that wasn’t already out there in spades. I get inspired by real world usage, improvised shooting (say using a skateboard as a trolley), using built in or DIY stabilization etc. Not a pointless display of usage that serves no other purpose than marketing.
No, I beg to differ. To view the work behind a promotional video, is pretty inspiring. It goes to show people the hard work that professionals do when they have to plan shoots, travel around the world, coordinate with other people, edit the footage and other activities involved in shooting a video like this. I guess it must not inspire you to watch great cinematographers and art directors plan film shoots, do location scouting and prep and other such things. I always find the creative process of individuals and organizations to be interesting. The ad was, to me, an interesting exercise in telling a story about what can happen in a single day. Shoot it with a GH4, iphone 5S, whatever. The end product is excellent. I understand that you don’t find this interesting. To each his own.
YES! Let’s drive demand for a completely unnecessary feature for consumer photography… that essentially nobody has the skill or talent to utilize.
Oh FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU! My DSLR doesn’t have 4K! :(……
I’m so happy that so many R&D resources are dedicated to this. It’s so important to photography.
That’s marketing for you. Convincing people to buy cameras they don’t need with features they’ll never use.
They’re even building 4K capable smartphones.
+1. Who cares about this BS especially @ 24fps? It’ll be completely outdated by the end of the year, considering the HDMI 2.0 is already out and new 60fps 4k TVs will start popping out soon.
agree, this has nothing to do with photography.
The GH line from panasonic was always more about video rather than still photography.
I don’t understand the actual urge for a video camera disguize in still camera body (DSLR or mirrorless shape).
in regard of the GH4 I don’t understand the concept since you need that enormous deck to use it professionally (XLR, etc…). It annihilated the only advantage of size since the combo is way larger than the Canon 1DC, not to mention full frame sensor VS m4/3.
though 4k image is lovely even in 1080p screen (check out the video from Sony for their new “cheap” camcordrer on youtube in native 4k).
There are far smaller alternatives to record external video to. This is just an all boxes ticked connection that costs megabucks on pro gear.
As for size the 1Dc does not have all the features of the GH4 add-on so you need to add extra gear to it and as for size the GH4 has a good bit of an advantage . The IDc weighs 3x the weight of a GH3
http://camerasize.com/compare/#316,381
Just as an aside – even though virtually nobody who shoots digital video (outside a very very small group) produces anything of notable quality. (1080p is consistently butchered by enthusiasts.)
Psych and marketing insight surveys find that sound quality – NOT video quality – is by far the most important element affecting how typical viewers judge the quality of online video.
It is a bad joke to see people worrying about 4K, and just throwing a boom mix onto the hot shoe or (GASP!) using the built-in mic. It’s just an indication of how completely absurd the whole thing with consumer video has become.
You do know most motion pictures and TV shows are done in digital right? Very few are shot on film, Hunger Games was 1 notable exception, but they still used digital for a good chunk of it.
I find 4K desirable because of the additional sharpness and clarity offered, especially when viewed at 1080p. Though I shoot mostly music videos and commercial stuff, good audio is a must.
This really isn’t a consumer camera though, I don’t see this being less than 5K. I would be amazed if it was, even to get it at that price point its going to have a few thousand in accessories to get it to work optimally.
Less than 2000$ and 2000€. (Btw, I’m not into video so I don’t really care about this line of products)
Sure – I would include feature film, television and advertising professionals as part of that “very small number of people” who know what they are doing. You probably fit into this group.
It’s inevitable that 4K is pushed as a critical (or perhaps aspirational) feature for consumer cameras and DSLRs, and everyone will be cooing about it. The vast majority of them (not you) have no clue what they are doing with video and never will.
So, yeah – I still lament that this will be a big focus for camera makers – when (for personal reasons) I’d like the resources focused elsewhere.
I see where you’re coming from, but the video market is growing into weddings and the like. Alot of videographers are at least getting started on DSLRs, because of the price and scale-ability.
I have an A77 right now, but im getting A99/this thing for the small-production work I’m doing (and because i still do alot of photography) with an FS700 planned for the end of the year.
Beautiful thing is I can use most of my gear (lens/etc..) for long time. I think thats what Sony/Canon stumbled on and have been promoting.
I understand the fact that you rather have the R&D resources used for other items besides video, but for the average user 4k video is a clear improvement, whether it is fully enjoyed in 1 year or in 5 year, (depending on the purchase time of a 4k TV).
4k (later 8k) is the future and yes it has clear benefits, even when used with the build in mic.
The other day I was looking at some old video, which I shot 8 years ago, 640×480 does not really make for a enjoyable experience. So bring on the 4k and 8k technology at the very least the advantage will be that watching photo’s on a TV will get bearable.
The average user will never need 4K, and M43 users are pretty average… Yes I agree it’s another marketing scam, but I don’t think there is so much R&D in it. In fact, I think there is very little R&D left in photography, across the board, sadly.
4K will be the end of photography as we know it.
People will just hit the REC button and chooses a still from the video later to upload to facebook. 4K is the AK47 of spray and pray.
(just kidding… well.. half kidding) 🙂
Fortunately that is not the case…If you are recording motion for play back you are recording at 24 or 25fps with a shutter angle (in a cine camera) of 180 degrees. This equates in stills speak to an effective shutter speed of around 1/50 sec. Try shooting anything other than a still object at 1/50 sec and try to keep it sharp. This motion blur also exists in motion footage. But because it is moving footage the human eye doesn’t notice it…the only way round this is to shoot at very tight shutter angles but this would make the footage jerky (think opening scenes of Saving Private Ryan).
Still image extraction from 4K video IS very viable. In fact this will be a huge trend of the future.
If your goal in shooting the video is to be able to extract still frames from it you will use the appropriate shutter speed.
Read what pro photog Abraham Joffe wrote about using the 4k Canon 1DC to create stills from video:
http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/technical/abraham_joffe_on_the_eos-1d_c.do
Among his choice quotes:
“Using Adobe Premiere Pro software, the 4K still image workflow is not as intimidating as you might first think. After finding the right frame in the application’s preview window, it can be exported to disk as a TIFF file, which can be output pretty much as it is. It’s a great way of finding what Abraham Joffe calls “micro expressions.”
“….The ability to slow down time, and have all these usable frames, is breath-taking.”
“One of the reasons people hire a professional photographer is for their ability to recognise and capture the ideal moment,” he says.
“Shooting with 4K video simply shifts the point where this moment is found, from the time of shooting to the time of editing.”
In a few years it will be very common for many photographers to use 4k video and extract stills from them. This train is coming, whether some like it or not.
With regards to this new Sony, a key for them will be how competitive it is priced with the new Panasonic. The Panasonic will be a game changer.
If your goal is purely to extract still frames without having to use the motion footage for anything useful your are correct….
If you think you can simply crank the shutter speed while shoot motion without adversely effecting the footage you are vey much mistaken…
To have a smooth cinematic look to your footage shooting motion on a DSLR to need to match you shutter speed correctly to your frame rate. I.E shooting at 25 fps you want to use a shutter speed of 1/50 sec. This equates to a look similar you a 180 degree shutter angle on a cinema camera. This will give the footage a smooth cinematic feel. You can play around a bit with the shutter from there. But if you start to push it your footage will start to have a stutter feel to it and be pretty much unusable commercially…So not you can’t just shoot at whatever shutter speed takes your fancy…
Hence my point commercially shot motion footage is not really usable for still. and yes I know as I have had Art Directors ask me that exact question….The only way that is could be useful is if you are shooting for slow motion. So your frame rate is much higher. EG 120fps would mean you would use a shutter speed around 1/250 sec which is doable. If you have a camera that shooting 4k at 120fps…
And of course it would need to shoot in RAW that you are able to extract a still image from similar to a RED…
Gav, you’re missing the point. You are right about the 180 degree shutter–if your goal is shooting cinematic footage! I’m not sure I like the idea of shooting video and extracting a frame BUT if that’s what you want to do then you will shoot at whatever shutter speed you want because… wait for it… *you won’t ever show the video*. You will only *extract* the *still images* you want from the video stream. Discarding the rest. Yes, if you shoot BOTH you still need something like a RED which will handle higher frame rates. Of course then you will had to change the timing which won’t give a natural look either.
Pick. Its art. Its about choices.
Isn’t that exactly what I said in the first line of my reply above…??
It is more putting to rest the notion that people can simply grab still from motion they are shooting and expect to use it as a still..I totally agree as above, you can certainly set a RED up to shoot for a still image…But this goes against the death of photography notion. As shoot in this way you are shooting stills and not motion.
Panasonic can allow themselves to make a highly video-oriented camera, because there’s Olympus to cover the photography part.
Well, the two Companies share the same system, but they are competitors.
Precisely.
@Vlad the still image output from the GH3 gx7 etc is pretty much identical to the Olympus models. Not really a surprise when the rumors suggest they have the same sensor. The only advantage that Olympus has in its top bodies is the 5 axis system which though useful in certain situations is hardly a matter of life or death,
Who said anything about the image output? The 5 axis system isn’t “a matter of life and death”, same as 4K. The point is though that these things differentiate the cameras and I would certainly not buy a Panasonic for shooting exclusively stills, when I can buy an Olympus, same as I won’t buy an Olympus for shooting video. But that’s the beauty of the system, you just buy two bodies. In general, a movie mode doesn’t really affect a camera, but then companies begin to develop specific features and the camera suddenly becomes better suited for one specific thing.
Well said.
The point being that there is no advantage for choosing Olympus over Panasonic other than the 5-axis system. All image stabilisation is of limited utility, Panasonic have already included built in IS on the GX7. So on a Panasonic you get identical still image quality and superior video quality. So your decision to never buy a Panasonic for stills can only be based on the 5 axis system .
That’s precisely what I am saying. If I am only interested in photography, then certainly Panasonic’s superior video doesn’t matter to me. And, as you said, output is identical. So, all else equal (photo-wise), I’d opt for the 5-axis, even though it might not be a a deal breaker in general. And the other way around if I am interested in video.
Frankly, looking at your comments, I don’t understand why you are disagreeing with my original post. Panasonic’s cameras are quite different from Olympus’ ones and thus cover a lot of ground. So, I am simply worried that Sony, in their 4K push, decide to improve video features and forget photography ones.
man, I hope its not EOS-1D C 4k cam version. That came is such a niche market. I don’t think it sells well at $12,000.
Sony would be better off with a 1Dx variation. Esp with all their sports lens on the self.
I really see this replacing the FS100 price-point, with XAVC/-S for 4K, to not infringe on the FS700.
When it’ll need a VG and the XLR adapter plus some other to be optimal.
The 1d-C is a variant of the 1d-x.
But very different cams. I don’t see bird, sports or wedding shooters with a 1d-C.
I am not disputing they serve different purposes. Previously the 1d and 1d-s cameras served different purposes as well, but one was a variation of the other.
Will someone please explain what “4K” means in the context it being used here? I gather it’s some kind of video stranded? I’m not a big video fan but would like to know what you folks are talking about.
Current HD video is 1920 pixels across or approximately 2K, this is 4K or approximately 4000 pixels across. It is essentially double the resolution in each direction of 1080P video which is 1920×1080.
Thank you E.J. Sounds like it exceeds the limits of my HD TV which is ridiculous. I suppose if you a pro movie maker it allows for cropping.
Also helps if you want to show the movie on a 4K cinema projector. 4K is still a long time from being a hobbyist video requirement.
Wake Up Mrs. & Mr. Sony ! It’s Time !!!
XAVC 10bits 4:2:2 (1920×1080) and 100mb/s for vidéo (alpha-mount & VG)
It’s time…
Or how about ProRes 4:4:4 😉
+1
The dream ! 😉
I can tell you one thing.
No one has ever, EVER, “opened” a battle.
Opened a can of whoop-ass maybe 😀
Perhaps. Perhaps.
I dunno, when it comes to video, i’ll take improved 1920×1080 or even 2K then going 4K :S
I’d like 2k Raw video output.
To all those saying there is no benefit to 4K for the average person – don’t forget that if the video capture is at a higher resolution than less sharpness-destroying, artifact inducing line-skipping / downsampling is necessary. 4K is 4 times the resolution of 1080p so that’s a lot less line-skipping for the camera.
I hope that doesn’t happen with Sony, because that will increase prices on new A-Mount cameras. Very few (if any) people need 4k right now, but we all need lower prices.
Or at least I wish Sony released another FF this year, like this sports camera that had been rumored some time ago.
Yes sports camera!!!! killer AF and Live view (No image buffer) at high frame rates!!!!
I’ve owned 3 panasonic cameras – GX1, G3 and GM1 and they have all be crap.
Horrid to use, horrible out of camera colours.
Compared to Oly m43 they are nothing.
Sony for the best IQ
Olympus for the best body/UI
Fuji for the best looking
Panny for the best video- meh
lol @fuji for best looking.
Why so ugly?
If I had to chose between 4K and more fps options like 24p,25p,30p,48p,50p. 60p, 100p, 120p.
I’d take the fps options anyday of the week.
I would take 4K 60p over 1080 120p .
A number of people question why we need 4k video on our still cameras.
If you shoot both video and stills you probab ‘ll y prefer not to have to carry around 2 complete systems.
To take video with a still camera only rquires a little extra firmware and processing.
Cost is minimal and does not hurt still photo quality.
Taking good stills on a video camera is not as simple an option.
If I did videos I would want 4k video on my camera.
I dont, so I dont care bit it is a feature that should be there.
Sigma art just rumored at 1350.00 for the 50mm. Looks like the Zeiss is still king of the heap.
That may very well be so. But price does not automatically equal quality. So we have to wait and see. Sigma has been doing some amazing things recently. I just hope their lens is a lot cheaper than that.
a few years ago, we had phot cameras that could do video, and most of us where choked about that. Today we have video cameras that also can do photos, so, in exception of the Nikon DF misconception, who will still make on the end only cameras for photographers? What is all that good for?
This is the reason i haven’t bought the 4k upgrade for the FS700 yet. I figure by NAB in April, we’ll see plenty of cameras that are cheaper and smaller i’d rather buy as an eventual replacement.
Any rumor of an actual 4k camcorder, not a photo camera that happens to do 4k video?
http://store.sony.com/4k-camcorder-with-1-sensor-zid27-FDRAX100/B/cat-27-catid-All-Advanced-Camcorders
At CES Sony announced a new consumer 4k camcorder: http://tinyurl.com/qasfmep. At about $2,000 it’s targeting early adopter serious amateurs and maybe some semi-pros.
If they release a 4K capable DSLRish/mirrorless camera with an A-mount instead of E, they will have pooped on their own legs.
I can’t imagine the Sony offering being competitive. It will have great specs on paper, but something will be broken, either with audio, with sharpness, with ergonomics, with focus. I don’t know what, but the specs will be great, but the camera will be a beta.
Only place Sony is getting things right is RX, and likely, second gen QX.
Once they work out the bugs with QX, I’d actually love to see a QX E-mount or A-mount.
The real issue is something will be crippled to protect the F5/F55. Seriously the A7 could do better video. They spend so much on time the usability aspects of shooting video in that form factor I can’t believe they just gave the IQ a pass. Heck the A7 cropped to super 35mm size is exactly 4K. We know that Bionz X is fast enough to handle that. Why didn’t they give us that option?!
…to protect the camcorder. ;-(
What is 4K ? Would anyone care to explain ?
E.J. Peiker gave a good description farther above. Here it is:
“Current HD video is 1920 pixels across or approximately 2K, this is 4K or approximately 4000 pixels across. It is essentially double the resolution in each direction of 1080P video which is 1920×1080.” (That’s about 4x the pixels of HD.)
Simply modify the A99 to output 4K RAW video (4096×2560 full pixel readout) in APS-C mode and 1080p60 clean HDMI output.
Deploy the 3-axis stablization from OM-D EM10, which can shoot smooth videos.
EVF can show FF coverage with APS-C frame lines (good for framing moving objects).
Make a video handgrip with longer battery life and 2x mSATA slots for SSD storage.
Further improve the AF functions and enlarge the frame buffer for high FPS shooting (12 fps for APS-C, 6 fps for stills)
Improve the SNR, such that high ISO picture is as clean as D600/D610 for still pictures.
Just call it A99 mkII and price it against D800/5D3.
Remove the 4K function, slower fps (8fps for APS-C, 4 fps for stills) call it A88 and price it against D610/6D.