Click on image to enlarge.
An anonymous 43rumors reader sent me that graph and message:
—
I really like the new E-M1 and I was wondering about the different Olympus prices used for this camera within the EU. So I hit up the main European online Olympus stores to see the different prices. Then I decided to make a little table of this data, presenting this information. I included the both the E-M1 and E-M5, with the kits they are being offered in the EU. This could be interesting for you and your readers.
Notes:
– Not all European countries are listed. Sorry for the ones that are missing.
– The Danish and the Norwegian online stores are offline for some strange reason. They have been for the past 2 days (shop.olympus.dk, shop.olympus.no).
– The prices used for the chart are the prices advertised in the country specific Olympus online store (shop.olympus.fr for example). Prices in the EU usually include VAT. Different countries in the EU have different level of VAT (for example 27% in Hungary).
– All prices were converted to Euros. If the country did not have EUR prices, its currency was converted to Euros by using Google convert (by using conversion rate on Oct 20th, 2013).
– Some Olympus stores did not offer all the kit packages. For example Olympus online store in France is not offering the E-M1 at all. So if a tick is missing, it is probably because the online store is not showing it (or I could not find it).
– Yes, the 1442 E-M5 kit is cheaper than the body only option in Switzerland.
– The US did not have all the kits, so in those cases I selected the body only + lens for the option.
– I don’t speak Japanese, but hopefully I got everything right there too.
– Most expensive countries are: HU, PL, UK.
France also seems expensive for the E-M5 that they have.
– The cheapest one is Russia(!?).
– US and JP prices are still a lot better (although US is not including VAT I think).
I hope that others find this useful as well.
—
65 Responses
I saw the EM1 here in Japan for sale last week, and wondered why it was so cheap compared to the priced spoken before on here. Seemed almost rude to not upgrade at roughly €970 body only, and €1500 with 12-40mm f2.8 on Amazon. Although I can’t justify it really.
Funniest comment: “seemed almost rude not to upgrade”. Love it.
I finally just caved-in! LOL! My EM5 goes up on the block today for sale.
Just for info… a friend of mine just bought E-m1 with 12-40 f2.8 in Tokyo few days ago, only 198000 Yen with tax.Free Olympus bag only.
198k¥ is a good price with the 12-40, it’s 200k on Amazon including tax. Tax is 5% in Japan, if you come here on a tourist visa you can get that 5% off the price too (10k yen or around $100). I can’t as I’m a resident here, although most of the big chain electronic stores give 5% back in store credit/points.
Still, I can’t justify it, the 12-40mm would be nice, but I don’t need the upgrade per se. I’ve been eyeing up a G6 which I’ve found many second hand for 35k yen (about $350 or £220), which seems a bargain to me considering its capability and age, I could buy 5 of them for the price of the EM1 and 12-40mm and make a multi camera angle movie :-).
FYI – here’s the Norwegian prices for the E-M1 w/ the current rates:
E-M1 body only: NOK 12985 / € 1599 €/ $ 2203
E-M1 w/ 12-50 : NOK 14999 / € 1847 €/ $ 2544
E-M1 w/ 12-50 : NOK 17985 / € 2215 €/ $ 3051
(+ expedition fees / freight)
These are web-shop prices at their cheapest!
You’ll have no problems finding it even more expensive in other webshops,
let alone in the B&M stores in the streets…
No delivery yet though.
I pre-ordered the 12-40 kit on Sept. 12th, but no signs of it in the webshop stocks yet. Add to that a few weeks to get the free promotions (MMF-3 and HLD-7) sent from Olympus Germany (after confirming the camera s/n to them), and maybe I’ll be able to it with my 4/3 Zuikos before Christmas. Just maybe…
(typo, the last one should be 12-40 – blame cut’n paste 😉 :
Corrections:
E-M1 body only: NOK 12985 / € 1599 €/ $ 2203
E-M1 w/ 12-50 : NOK 14999 / € 1847 €/ $ 2544
E-M1 w/ 12-40 : NOK 17985 / € 2215 €/ $ 3051
Forgot to say: VAT included.
From Russia, with love then?
Not as bad as usual,but significantly worse than in US(1,399$ are much better than 1875$) From official russian store, just checked:
E-M1 body only: RUR 59999 / € 1375 / $ 1875 (preorder)
E-M1 w/ 12-50 : RUR 69999 / € 1605 / $ 2195
E-M1 w/ 12-40 : RUR 89999 / € 2065 / $ 2820 (preorder)
Anyway, fairly pricey…
Thanks, admin, that is a very interesting overview!
i live in France and it’s the most expensive…
If we would buy it from US(from BH for example), would we lose rebates and warranty? Or it is just a question of delivery and custom?
Olympus warranty is international WORLDWIDE, at least the first year. Afterwards, you have to send your camera to the continental repair center (Europe, Asia, US), it doesn’t matter where you bought it..
You definitely won’t lose instant rebates and I belive you are not going to lose US warranty but you might not necessarily get it extended to another country. The major obstacle you are likely to encounter is that major US stores will not ship US-spec gadgets direct to other countries. If you are in Russia, the good news is that there a few shipping middlement with warehouses in US that offer forwarding shipments abroad (as well as consolidating shipments from different stores into a single package). You should also not forget about import duties which can negate any advantage of buying abroad.
if somebody had a time I would like to see the report of inital->street->fire sale price of older models like EPL3, EP3 etc …and some prediction for EP5, EPL5, OMD-EM5 and OMD-EM1 …just to know when to go & buy :-)…maybe similar for Pana m43 models
http://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk/Olympus/Olympus-PEN-System
This website has graphs showing the price history in UK since launch – just click on the camera info. you need
maybe international warranty, i dont know.
Do the US prices include local taxes which are often added at the point of sale (in UK they are included in any advertised price)?
Does this include discount deals or are they ‘average’ full retail price.
They would not include those taxes but also note that many, probably most, do not pay any taxes in the US on this sort of thing if they order over the internet from a company that is in another state and has no presence in the state it is being ordered from. So this is a relatively accurate rendition.
There are also some states, like Oregon, that charge no sales tax at all. Saying the comparison is invalid is, well, invalid 🙂 since most people don’t pay that tax. It would only be invalid if most people did pay that tax.
It case you may not have been paying attention, starting November 1st many online retailers will be charging a tax including Amazon regardless of in state presence. Come end of next year, only if you are in a state that is sales tax free, will you not have to pay taxes. Netflix and many online content providers will also be charging taxes. The average across the USA is 7% if you want to use it for rough calculations.
The US price does not include VAT because we do not have one. If you buy online there is no local sales tax either. You are supposed to voluntarily mail the local tax to your state government but unless you are running a business and deduct your purchase as a business expense that is never enforced.
so what you are saying is, the customer is supposed to pay taxes but rarely do because they can get away without doing so. Isn’t that (strictly) illegal?
And you are not completely right about paying taxes for online purchases – if the seller has a physical presence in your state they have to collect the tax.
But this does not negate my point that in UK and other countries the advertised price *must* include any local taxes (VAT or otherwise) but in US they are advertised without taxes. So the price comparison is invalid.
I don’t think that the price comparison is “invalid” at all. On any major purchase, no one I know pays taxes on online purchases – even people who live in NYC and buy from B&H can have the purchases sent to friends/relatives in nearby states – NJ is a tunnel away. Many people avoid buying directly from Apple for the same reason, and get their hardware from a reseller who doesn’t charge taxes.
Unfortunately, I am an exception because I work overseas and so, when I shop at B&H or Adorama, I do pay the local taxes, unless I’m going to visit some friend during the same trip to whom I can have the purchases shipped. Even with paying taxes, the prices are lower than anywhere else I go to, perhaps Hong Kong and China being about the closest.
The average USA sales tax is 9.5%. but again you can avoid paying that if you buy from a business that does not operate in your state. if you don’t live in New York, Adorama and B&H are good choices.
The laws are expected to change on this in the next few years, eventually we will be forced to pay tax on all Internet transactions at time of purchase.
9.5%? You are exaggerating. Few people but New Yorkers pay that kind of sales tax.
In the US the sales taxes aren’t allowed to be advertised, and they vary depending on which state, county, and town you live in. Some people won’t owe any taxes, others could drive a mile from home and find themselves paying a different tax.
Online sales aren’t taxed if there is no business presence in the state — a hold over from catalog sales. But most states require people to report any out of state purchases over the internet. But few people do, and I think most of them don’t even know they are supposed to.
Yes, not paying sales tax is illegal. But nobody cares. I do not think most people have even heard of “use tax” unless they own a business. It is pretty easy to avoid stores with a local presence too. Unless you live in New York you just order from B&H, great service, good prices and no sales tax. There are enough states with no sales tax that for really big purchases people could still get around paying by having big purchases shipped to a friend or relative in those states.
There is growing support to change the law regarding online sales tax. It is not fair to local merchants already struggling with online competition and states are losing revenue. The supreme court ruled that forcing an online vendor to comply with the tax codes of thousands of localities is an unfair burden so congress can not just pass a law requiring sales tax be paid. They also have to create a system that allows online sellers to accurately calculate sales tax based on ZIP code and easily send it to the state and local governments. Setting up a computer system like that is no problem for private companies like UPS but seems to be a huge hurdle for the federal government.
Great content Admin, thanks a lot for this.. way to go!
Any fair price comparison should take the VAT out ! Different countries have different mix of direct taxes (income and/or fortune taxes) and indirect taxes (VAT). Usually countries having a low VAT have higher direct taxes. In CH our VAT is only 8%, but VAT is only a smaller part of the total taxes income the different public authorities are perceiving at the national, regional and local levels. Alas here the VAT difference doesn’t go in the pocket of the consumers it is “lost” somewhere between the manufacturers, the distributors and the retailers. In the end we end up paying much mire than in other EU countries.
The equation for Swiss prices is quite straightforward for retailers:
1. Take the price from neighbouring states (with VAT over 20%)
2. Convert to Swiss Francs
3. Add 10%
4. Pocket the profits
And nobody will complain, because the Swiss are taught to OBEY. All else is FORBIDDEN.
well sorry. I’m swiss and when I buy in France or Germany, I buy WITHOUT VAT. You can do the detax anywhere in any shop. Afterward, you stop at the border, you pay your 8% of swiss VAT to the custom service, the put a stamp on the paper, you send the paper back to the shop and they refund you the 20% european VAT. That’s all. So, basically, any swiss not doing that, is an idiot… you’re welcome.
+ the retail price in a shop, is decide by OLYMPUS Switzerland. It is Olympus who decide that the swiss price will be what you mention. This price will be the one you find on platform like toppreise.ch. The lowest, so to say. Retailers, then don’t have the choice, they have to add something because they have a rent to pay!
It is illegal in the EU for Olympus or any other company to dictate what the selling price of a product is. They can have an RRP (recommended retail price) but cannot prevent the retailer selling at the price they choose.
They can of course set the price that they supply to the retailer at a certain level but he should be able to obtain the products from anywhere in the EU with no restrictions. So, for new products, which are usually sold at RRP, the only difference in price between countries within the EU should be due to VAT differences.
That applies to many countries as well as the EU. Australia being one. However the price charged by the distributor/agent/ importer in this case Olympus or their contacted agent is up to that organisation.
The price charged is sometimes set to maximise local purchase and support the resellers. Olympus has done very successfully in Australia. I purchased locally the E-M5 as a result. A good move by them. The post charged by US companies offsets the 10 GST (VAT). So Olympus Australia has, by reasonable pricing, made me into a good tax payer and supported local business at the same time.
However many marketing managers just see a trapped market and take advantage. They also collude with others to set the price across a region. This can be seen in the above charts. While the price in Europe is not the same. It is close enough to show collusion at the supplier level when compared to the US, Japan and Australia.
Yes I know there is 20% or so tax. Just get beyond that for a change. Look at the start point. Although don’t forget, you do pay VAT on the importers colluded profits.
“Yes I know there is 20% or so tax. Just get beyond that for a change. Look at the start point. Although don’t forget, you do pay VAT on the importers colluded profits.”
My comment was not aimed at you directly but at some of the other readers.
The prices for Switzerland is totally wrong.
These are the cheapest webshop prices incl. shipping and Tax:
E-M1 1240 = 2’190 EUR
E-M1 Body = 1’390 EUR
E-M5 1250 = 975 EUR
E-M5 Body = 730 EUR
You can see that these are the cheapest prices all over Europe.
http://www.43rumors.com/full-new-gh-4k-camera-specs-to-be-posted-at-1400-london-time-today/
What happened to this page…. ?? It was posted earlier today :-/ Then some minutes ago it disappeared! 🙁
ahhhh…. it is still coming!
https://twitter.com/43rumors/status/392950970667524096
“@dankeeble yes. I removed the post because readers comments where negative on it.”
Is on odd reason however I feel to remove it due to “negative” comments?? :-/ I certainly wasn’t being negative in my comments on that thread! 😉
This shows what we have known for a long time. The world is subsidising the US market.
Example VAT is around 20% in many countries, where it is lower there may be other taxes to apply. So the US price + 20% is what should be a guide line price paid in non US countries. Except Australia where GST (VAT) is 10% with no other duties or taxes.
The above chart shows quite clearly that the US price + 20% is not being charged. It is way above that, mainly between 50 and 60% higher than the US price. This means that the the world rates are to high or the US rates are being subsidised by the rest.
True the US is a large market with a common language thus minimising cost. But as manuals are now all soft copy that is not relevant. So we have a situation that packing boxes are the cause, when printed in other than English. But wait. why is the UK price so high?
USA price does not include taxes. Not really a fair comparison.
Aren’t many US states sales-tax exempt?
No. Almost all US states do have sale taxes, but admidteldy at levels which are a far cry from then 20+% of Europe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_taxes_in_the_United_States
Do you ever read what you are looking at? Try reading it again that all covered. I used the US price as the base and then added the taxes. It makes a realistic comparison.
You are not paying VAT to subsidize US camera buyers, you are paying VAT to fund your government. If you were not paying VAT you would have to pay higher taxes elsewhere or run bigger deficits.
I misread your post and just noticed you were complaining about costs being higher than can be explained by VAT.
Not only is the US a big market, it is very price sensitive. Most of us here have a long history of buying the cheapest item we can find and then complain bitterly about the low quality. The choice here is often sell at a razor thin profit margin or don’t sell. When I visited Europe a few years ago I was struck by how expensive everything was. As you said, more than can be explained by VAT. I think some of it is due to Americans preferring to shop at big box discounters vs. the much smaller, nicer but more expensive stores I saw in Europe. If you have big box stores in Belgium you do a very good job of hiding them from visitors. I was not looking for one but they are hard to miss.
There are other factors to take into account like the overheads of businesses. In the US overheads are relatively low.
In the UK for example we have National Insurance contributions paid by a business for each employee (roughly 10%), high property taxes (business rates), relatively high wages (now close to the highest in the EU) and in many parts of the country extremely high rent costs.
All of these have to be paid before the business starts to make a profit which pushes up the selling price.
Here you go again with your anti-US bias. I was waiting for your post.
Your VAT supports your government and is used – along with any income tax you pay – to support your social services, etc. such as FREE health care, welfare/unemployment and so on. Also, the Euro is artificially set at a higher rate to the dollar. Why is the Euro valued at 30% over the dollar? It should not be, but there it is. Does the European economy justify that? Of course not.
So, stop complaining.
Read the post again. you missed the point. Completely.
well not quite free health care – we pay NI, but certainly more efficiently delivered (cheaper per capita). But then according to your opinion makers the NHS is some sort of socialist institution. At least Obama is trying to do something to redress the balance for the poor, but just look at the resistance right wing red necks are putting up!!
“This shows what we have known for a long time. The world is subsidising the US market.”
It is not the case. The US market is simply much bigger than any other individual country market, so some fixed costs (like advertisement, certification with local authorities, promotion/distribution costs to national retailers) are shared between higher number of units.
And lower taxes (not just 5-7% sales vs 20% VAT, but everything else from 0% tariffs to relatively low income and superlow investment taxes) play their role. We pay for low taxes when we pay $30,000 for baby delivery (directly or through insurance premiums) or $1,000 for MRI; or sending our kids to private colleges for $40-50K/year.
But for young, healthy and kid-free it is an absolute paradise. 🙂 Especially if you are well-educated and willing to work hard. 🙂
peevee. You must be brain washed.
“We pay for low taxes when we pay $30,000 for baby delivery (directly or through insurance premiums) or $1,000 for MRI” peevee, that’s not tax that’s the doctors new lear jet. Those costs do not equate to tax. Unless you are referring to the Doctors and hospital paying tax, which a good accountant will reduce to a loss anyway.
“The US market is simply much bigger than any other individual country market, so some fixed costs (like advertisement, certification with local authorities, promotion/distribution costs to national retailers) are shared between higher number of units.”
I covered that. It does not account for and additional 30%. The US distribution system is in some instances better and in others similar. Also the US market is wider spread so thinner on the ground.
“but everything else from 0% tariffs ”
You may be surprised to find that many countries have 0% tariff or duty on cameras. Australia and UK being among them.
So the US is being subsidised.
What I believe peevee meant is in the US, prices on some items may be lower, but medical care is quite costly. It’s not a “tax”, but it is financially taxing, and in fact costs of medical are the leading cause of bankruptcy in the US.
There are many reasons for the high costs of health care, but you’re wrong to think doctors are getting rich. In fact, reimbursements are steadily dropping, and many private practitioners have not been able to keep the doors open.
Likely there are numerous factors that contribute to the cost of an item in any particular place. What’s missing is actual data–what are the retail seller’s costs? the wholesaler’s costs? the importer’s costs? What is the consumer’s level of income? Let’s see the whole hierarchy and then we’ll see who is subsidizing whom. Until we have some facts, it’s just smoke and hot air.
I re looked at the comment and agree your interpretation may be appropriate. So what he is saying is that having no tax means paying is some other form such as …. Fine, Sorry Peevee I misinterpreted that part of your response.
Just goes to show that the US needs a national health care system. Then there would be more healthy people earning a wage and paying more tax.
While the issue of costs does vary considerably. Imposed costs of tax and government charges cannot be denied and must be paid. The entire tax bill for an organisation is not recovered on one sale, VAT is, but the rest no, it is amortised over the number of sales.
Again the chart demonstrates an EU 50-60% hike over the US price, which itself includes all the distribution chain and retail costs and the profit.
There’s an error in data from France… E-M5+12-50 is around 1000€ as in most european coutries:
https://www.google.fr/search?q=prix+E-M5+12-50&safe=off&prmd=ivns&source=univ&tbm=shop&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=kr5nUp1bh9fRBdDcgYAP&ved=0CBwQsxg
This is brilliant!
I knew that the UK was comparatively expensive, but this shows that it’s not quite as bad over here as I thought
I was wondering how ridiculous this was. You basically have to change the $ sign for the £ sign and the conversion is done! And most of the rest of the world don’t get those fancy rebates that BH have 🙁 Can’t wait to go to Florida next year and get my hands on the camera 🙂
As it is, it’s just useless folklore. To be useful it should:
1) remove all the taxes (he/she does not say but I assume the prices for use are before sale-tax)
2) use the average exchange rate for a year, not a random exchange rate of a given day.
Most countries give prices including tax. It is a legal requirement in some, so the buyer has no hidden extras when making a purchase.
I am sure that one reason the prices are lower in US is because of discount deals and this in turn is because the Yanks have just not caught onto MFTS in the way Europe has – and as a result they are receiving reductions in US that we in Europe can only dream of to try and motivate the market. If (a big if!) they can break the market then they can recover lost profits and the deals will wither away.
An excellent example is the OMD-EM5 – it took over 18 months for worthwhile reductions to appear in Europe because demand for it was so continuously high that it was almost a cult product and they did not need to offer reductions to sell them.
To the guy who did the price analysis – great job! A few mistakes:
“- The US did not have all the kits, so in those cases I selected the body only + lens for the option.”
And forgot to reduce the price of E-M1+12-40 by $200 rebate.
“- The cheapest one is Russia(!?).”
You mean in Europe? Probably VAT is not included there?
“(although US is not including VAT I think).”
US does not have tax, and sales and use taxes differ by state and even by locality (some don’t have them at all, and for online sales they are often ignored).
UK customer here.
EM5 looked interesting to me over last couple of years but price was just too high.
I’ve bought cheaper Panasonic bodies and lenses.
If oly had got me into their system by reducing prices like panny then perhaps I’d have built up an affinity and invested in lenses and other bodies.
To get mass appeal you sometimes have to make yourself more accessible.
Yes I know price stayed up because they’re selling well.
Too many frigging dentists out there 😉
Slight exaggeration there.
Maybe 2/3 of the Northern Hemisphere by area, and last time I checked there were more than 20 countries!
http://geizhals.at/eu is a EU-Wide priceatch. Its not a complete pricewatch many shops are missing. Its just better than nothing.