SAR reader Luke managed to get an answer from Zeiss whether the new Batis lens line have focus by wire or not. Zeiss answered that:
The Batis lenses have “focus by wire”. Like the same innovative focusing features like the Sony/Zeiss FE type lenses. To allow quick and also precise manual focusing with an AF lens, the focusing distance will change according to the speed you turn the focusing ring. If you prefer mechanically coupled focusing rings, the LOXIA lenses might be the best solution for you.
Thanks Luke for sharing Zeiss answer!
The four mew A and E-mount Zeiss lens preorders:
Zeiss Batis 85mm f/1.8 lens at Adorama, Bhphoto.
Zeiss Batis 25mm f/2.0 lens at Adorama, Bhphoto.
Zeiss 24-70mm f/2.8 ZA SSM II at Amazon, BHphoto and at Adorama.
Zeiss 16-35mm f/2.8 ZA SSM II at Amazon, BHphoto and at Adorama.
111 Responses
“the focusing distance will change according to the speed you turn the focusing ring”
This is actually the most annoying thing about the Sony FE by wire system, do other systems do this as well?
I DO AGREE!!!!!!!! Why they even think it’s a good idea?? EVERYONE HATES THIS!!!!!
I do not, I love it.
Yes. And it is annoying because it isn’t what you are used to. I find driving an automatic annoying but millions of yanks think they are great.
I don’t know about that one, this isn’t just me there are constant complaints about this. Don’t think I’ve seen someone say that they really liked that feature
I think it is a sensible feature that nobody ever asked for. Like electronic steering.
Many “sensible features” are to save the manufactures money, doesn’t mean it’s better for consumers.
I don’t think anyone would prefer throttle-by-wire, but they do it because it’s cheaper to produce
Like how people prefer the more accurate AF of CDAF, the down side being focus by wire.
I think a lot of the reason behind throttle by wire is for better traction control systems, I agree with the sentiment of your comment though.
I think that people that use AF pretty much all the time and have no need, or have never really used MF for anything serious/creative, find no problem with this. But without coupled MF you can’t:
1 free lens
2 use cheap lens extenders
3 use bellows
4 change focus during long exposure
and more.
When control is taken away for the sake of savings, it sort of ruins an experience.
Well, this lens probably was designed by Japanese here in Japan, where you have to special order manual transmissions. I’ve never seen a manual transmission in the wild. In America, I would assume that about 10% of cars are manual, and that for safety. Here in japan, I’ve seen not a one, and it’s going on 17 years.
This country is so automatic that we couldn’t buy ceiling fans without remote controls, had to special order toilets that didn’t automatically flush, or open the lid, and on and on.
Let me say this: Americans may like automatic stuff, but they have not even an ounce on the Japanese, who live in a 100% automatic society.
BTW, I ordered a manual transmission (delivery time over a month) for safety. I’m used to automatics now.
It has AF! No need to manual focus. Great thing, really.
Seriously, if you need a good MF lens, buy the Loxia.
Yeah, but it’d be nice to not have to double up on lenses for those of who frequently use both AF and MF. There’s no reason a good AF lens can’t also be a good MF lens.
people who buy these type of lenses are able to take photos with it so whats the problem? if you cant handle it buy something else – easy solution.
I was just asking a question, you don’t need to get all defensive?
@SAR_Admin, what else would you expect from a lens with an OLED screen? 🙂
Can we ask if the DoF scale and aprox. can be modified per camera? or can the lens learn which camera it is attached to so the DoF scale can adjust itself to the appropriate circles of confusion?
What I mean to say is, the perceived sharp DoF on the A7s will not be the same as the one in the A7/II or the A7r especially if we want pixel level sharpness.
Just ask on their Facebook page, they seem to respond to everybody really quick. Like 20 people have already asked if it’s focus by wire days ago
I think your question is a little jumbled. Dof scale should not change from FF camera to another. DOF scale has nothing to do with sharpness just the area of what should be in focus. Now if you move it to a aps-c camera, that might be a different story.
DoF is a function of the lens focal length, fixed, the focus distance, the lens knows this, aperture, lens knows this, and the circle of confusion (CoC). The CoC can be variable depending on what you want to do with the image. There is a minimum size based on the sensor resolution but other factors come into play. Zeiss normally uses 1/1700 or so of the sensor diagonal, or 0.025mm for a FF or 0.017mm for a APS-C. So the question, is that what Zeiss is using? Is it fixed to the FF value or does it vary with camera body? Is there a way to set the CoC to a specific value? If you want the perfect web image your CoC needs are different from the perfect 20 x 30 inch print.
Yea my bet is it won’t be as involved as all that. I think its just a typical DOF scale that reads digitally so that its more accurate when using MF being that its focus by wire in which a printed DOF scale on the lens wouldn’t work.
That would be a bit of a shame. It would have been nice if it would be more interactive. Otherwise…gimmick. It has to “add” something to be worth something. Its digital already….my best is that they can allow us to change the CoC in the form of a lens FW update just like you do for normal lenses. That would be great and IT WOULD add so much.
It does add. The distance /DoF scales on most lenses are near useless a lot of the time where this can be flexible and show the relevant information at the time, rather than have to have space for all distances / apertures available all the time. So it can offer far greater accuracy and while the CoC may not be adjustable, it could well be calibrated to more modern resolution standards which would be quite easy for a display like this, not so for engravings on a lens.
Yes, but the CoC will be the same for a FF camera and 20×30 print regardless of the pixel density (say A7R vs A7S).
Yes, but if you crop, especially if you crop quite a bit, then every single pixel counts and that print size becomes a bit more iffy if your CoC calculation made you believe that you got more in focus than what you actually got.
I am talking about raising the bar a bit, especially with higher res monitors today and the cheaper C-type prints you can have for larger sizes than 20x30in.
This. Thank you for helping out.
I know that for 24mp, 0.025 is OK, but in my experience (for larger prints and pixel level sharpness) 0.022 is better.
I don’t know what would it be for 36mp if you want to maximise that resolution for large prints. 0.018?
Scale readings should be the same on FF or APS-C
We knew this already, right? The only AF lens with mechanically coupled focus ring for E-mount is the 90 f2.8. The fact that the Batis lenses have an OLED screen should make clear that there is no mechanical coupling.
Loxia too?
Loxia does not Autofocus
Loxia is not AF with mechanically coupled focus ring..
The 90mm does not and even if it did, by your definition so too does the 28-135mm, so either way you are wrong.
You are right, the 28-135 is probably similar in that regard. The distance numbers on the barrel clearly indicate manual coupling.
The point I was making is that there is no news value to the fact that it is focus by wire. Pretty much all lenses up to now are like that due to the nature of CDAF.
No they don’t. They aren’t manually coupled. They are set distances that control the focus by wire in a different manner to the continous controllers, but still focus by wire.
All AF mirrorless lenses are focus by wire.
Ok, that makes sense.
wait, so the expensive 28-135 suffers from delay when moving the manual focus ring too?
Who said anything about a delay? My cheapy Olympus 12-40mm Pro-mediocre lens has this facility and while not perfect is perfectly serviceable.
I’m talking about Sony lenses and I thought the 28-135 PZ G OSS had mechanical coupling (since it’s use is intended for video) and if it is true it uses focus-by-wire I was wondering if it suffers from delay from the moment you move the focus ring.
There may be a delay, whether it is noticeable or not I don’t know. As I say Olympus uses the same system and it works fairly well. But it is definitely focus by wire, all mirrorless lenses are.
Why does CDAF require focus-by-wire lenses (as opposed to ultrasonic-style AF motor)?
Because the CDAF system searches for highest contrast in the frame or focus area. Which means, in contrary to PDAF, which moves to the area with highest contrast (bound by AF points of course) directly, the CDAF needs to oscillate around the point with highest contrast in order to determine the point with highest contrast.
yes but this site has to be updated with the tiniest bits of information.
No thanks. I’ll wait for the updated sony A mount version at twice the price.
Mh…
Well duh
Batis? More like batshit overpriced…
Compared to what? The closest thing I can think of to the Batis 25/2 is the new Fuji 16mm f1.4, which is $1000 and not even a FF lens.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1138987-REG/fujifilm_xf_16mm_f_1_4_r.html
No. The closest would be Sony’s 28mm f2.0 for FE mount, which is a little over $400.
Focus by wire or strictly mecanical, Batis or Loxia, your choice. FE mount or adapted, Zeiss got something for everyone … No reason to complain, just make a choice.
Some doesn’t need a reason to complain. ;P
Does the Batis have some kind of focus lock? That would be quite useful for those of us who is using hyperfocal setting.
Focus lock? Dunno what you mean by that.
I think, using hyperfocal distance is no problem with these Batis lenses due to that little OLED display, which shows the distance and the actual depth of field. If you are a street shooter, the Loxias are better anyways.
Not shure what I ment 😛 some button to disable focus preventing you from accedently shift focus. I guess one of the camera button could be assigned.
That feature you are looking for the A77II has it on the trash button. Unfortunately I haven’t seen that on the A7. If anyone has, please post.
How so? You can still turn the focus ring accidentally.
You can use the AF/MF button on the back of the camera.
The AF/MF button does not lock the focus.
Once you customize the camera options, it can. Mine does.
I probably didn’t make myself clear. It looks like you are talking about the normal AF-focus-lock, which is temporary. You lose the focus lock after you press the shutter release. However, I guess André was talking about a permanent focus lock in order to prevent accidental focus change during shooting with hyperfocal distance. I do not know of a camera that provides such functionality.
My idea was to set focus and aperture at hyperfocal/zone focus settings, and then do point and shoot without having to wait for atofocus. Nice streetphoto setup. But then you dont want focus to change accidently, so being able to contemporary lock or disable focus would be useful. Just an idea in my head …
It sounds like back button AF might work well for you. Set the camera to MF or AF-C focus mode and customize a button on the back to “AF on”. Then you will be in manual by default but can achieve AF at the click of that back button.
See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bBXpqfHn3c
That means, a way to disable the focus ring with a press on a button, right? I can’t remember that I have ever seen such a function on a lens or camera. (MF, AF or AF-FBW).
The only thing I can remember, is the possibility to mechanically lock the focus to infinity on a collapsible Elmar (Leica IIIf). That was a loooong time ago.
Don’t forget us video shooters and manual focusers too!
A Loxia 20mm f/2 and a Loxia 85 f/1.4 as counterparts will be good.
Will most likely be Loxia 85 f4 and 21 2.8 based on the ZM lenses
That 21mm, I want it, just got to have it… Zeiss please…
85/2 seems to be feasible too, even with M52 filter.
I’m waiting for the Loxia 85mm (think the whole range will be f2.0 and hoping so)
(wish either Zeiss or Sony would make an 85mm APS-C lens, I really don’t want to be using full frame lenses on a Super-35 for video, instead want lenses optimised for Super-35 (APS-C).
Would love a Loxia 18mm 2.0 that would rock!
Waiting for the Loxia 85mm 2.0 (on Super-35mm sensor (APS-C) 50mm is just not enough!
Well, I can live with that, even though for video it blows. Now, gimme that 85.
I wish there was an option in the menu to keep the focus consistent and not dependent on the speed I am using to turn with focus by wire.
I also believe Bob’s rumor a 21 Loxia is next up.
Absolutely, that would be so easy to implement in firmware and suddenly fbw would become a feature.
so you need to buy Loxia for videography and the basis for stills? who’s got that kind of cash? and so much for a compact mirrorless kit
You don’t necessarily need loxia for video or any special lens for video. You can pretty much do it with any type of lens, its just different, harder whatever you make of it. I’m not self proclaiming im great or anything, but I can do pretty much whatever with whatever lens. Anyone can.
Uh, like I put together some sort of steadicam with a tripod and its center column mounted backwards…
when you do it for work, its bette to use tools where you can get what you need the fist time you try…like pulling focus. it’s hard and an art. It doesn’t really happen well “by wire. I work as a photog and love auto focus lenses but also as a cinematog so I need lens to manually work too. Too bad they can’t make lenses that that can do both?
I understand where you’re coming from. I would love to be able to do everything in one package, but unfortunately we have to make due with what we have, especially when we don’t have much money to work with (me). Maybe when I get really good at what I do, I’ll have money to buy all these new things. 😀
I returned 55/1.8 FE because fly-wire focus doesn’t allow critical manual use. It’s possible to turn the ring so slow that the lens doesn’t react at all. It’s too easy to over-shoot the focus adjustment either way.
Allow user adjustment of the accelerometer and I might revisit fly-wire focus. Should accommodate extra long throw focus, like Otus or Zeiss MF lineup.
My fashion photography requires critical focus point at far edge of vertical frame, outside of AF sensor area. Fly-wire focus (as it is) just can’t cut it.
_______
Also, looking at the rear placement of the Batis focus ring concerns me for finger room around a7II grip. My knuckles are scraped already when using Canon EF to Emount lens adapter. Forget about using gloves. The grip is too close to the focus ring.
I wish Emount would grow up to a pro grade tool.
But I’d rather my Otus fit onto the A-Mount battleships.
a full frame lens will give you a better image because you are only using the center portion of the image circle. “the sweet spot”
Yep, plus since you do video, a Zeiss 85/1.4 from A-mount would do wonders On LA-EA3, or better yet, a Novoflex adapter with manual arpeture control.
I already own two of the focus by wire lenses and will not buy more until they implement and option for a linear adjustment. Such a shame they don’t allow it in firmware as I would happily buy more if they did. Hint Hint, not gonna buy more until they (easily) fix it.
“Hint Hint, not gonna buy more until they (easily) fix it.”
I’m sure that somewhere in Japan, a Sony Engineer has read this and is sprinting down the hall to the R&D team to pass along the big news.
All jokes aside, I think it’s a good idea though.
Yep, I can see it now. The engineer also throws the printouts and yell eureka!
Well, we can dream :p
aaaand that’s the main reason I love my A-mount ZA lenses. Mechanical Coupling FTW.
Yeah, same here, tried out a few cameras in the store and couldnt figure out whether i’m in-focus or slightly off. There is no feedback at all and it just feels strange.
Erm what? What feedback do you get from a mechanically coupled lens?
I get a feedback of a direct drive gear rather than a laggy control wheel that always is too slow to respond and always overshoots whenever you stop.
Yes but how is that going to tell you whether you are in focus or not? Electric steering doesn’t offer mechanical feedback, yet cars can still go around corners.
Its not electric steering, its electric power steering… theres a difference that the steering wheel is still directly connected to the wheels.
And it doesnt tell me whether i’m in focus or not. Mechanical drive has no lag and the focusing precision is directly related to how fast or slowly i turn the ring. I can gauge whether i’m in focus or not by purposefully overshooting the focus, as seen through EVF or LCD and then dialong back.
With electric, it lags at the start of focusing and then when you stop, it is still going. It also seemed to not do anything when i was turning the ring very very slowly. On my A65, i can focus the A-Mount converted Rokkor 58/1.4 in a few seconds and achieve critical focus in under 10. In the store I couldnt tell whether I’m in critical focus or not after more than a minute of fiddling with it. Yes, overall it looked focused, but i couldnt tell how close to critical it was.
sure i could have used the focus peaking, but that was not the purpose of the test and so far focus peaking has proved to be not very accurate on multiple cameras.
Oh boo hoo. I am sorry that you, like pretty much every other person into photography is so inept at adapting. You used it once in a store? Wow. Good on you for giving it a thorough go. Not going to buy? Great. I’m sorry you couldn’t figure it out, but at least this way you can stick with your cruddy A65 and know that it is the epitome of fine focussing equipment. Enjoy. Maybe you should have enabled DMF… but don’t let that be a concern for you, you already have the best that is available 😉
Ah screw you. Learn proper communication skills and maybe you’ll gain the ability to see the need of others. I jump on good tech when i see it. This surely isnt it. How the heck does DMF fix the laggy mess that drive by wire focus is. You just had to blurb something out without knowing all the details. And no, I wasnt in the store just once…
You said that peaking wasn’t good enough to determine focus… so… there’s that. What is it that you WANT? Apart from to talk into the abyss that is whining photographers? Take your old crap bucket and go marvel at its splendour rather than complain about things you have no intention of using? ALL mirrorless lenses are focus by wire, don’t like it? Cool, don’t buy it. Really really simple. Listening to people like you moan about it (and the millions of other things people seem to have ‘a serious problem with that requires much talking about’) is the worst.
Bulls*it! Loxia dont focus by wire! Native Samyang are mechanical as well(yes, i know that they are DSLR lenses originally). And yes, peaking has lots of issues. It might work alright in good light, but anything less than ideal conditions, such as sparkly subject or poor light and you are screwed. What is it I want? More lenses with mechanical drive or drive-by-wire that doesnt lag. Not all of us have the same $h*tty criteria for a camera as you do and we are free to discuss or moan about whatever we feel like moaning about. Its a*sh*oles like you, who instead of providing intelligent suggestions, insult people for no f*ck*ng reason, are the ones who degrade the quality of any discussion.
You seem to get a kick from visiting such discussions. Get a f*ck*ng life. I never asked you for anything.
Go play with your dolls and continue to imagine that youre a pro-the-all-knowing photographer.
Ugh. Then buy a fuckinkg Loxia you twat. What do you want? MF lenses! Then go stuffing well buy them you muppet, there are LITERALLY thousands of the things! But don’t go complaining that mirrorless AF lenses AREN’T MF lenses. You get it? CDAF lenses are focus by wire otherwise they don’t AF well. It isn’t complicated but little dck beans like yourself like to come and have a little moan like what you want is somehow important and needs to be validated by posting it on the Internet. I’m SO sorry that you can’t operate a simple function. This lens isn’t for you, but it was never going to be for you anyway so you are making yourself feel better about not buying it.
Troll.
Ugh. Then buy a f*ck*ng Loxia then. What do you want? MF lenses! Then go stuffing well buy them you muppet, there are LITERALLY thousands of the things! But don’t go complaining that mirrorless AF lenses AREN’T MF lenses. You get it? CDAF lenses are focus by wire otherwise they don’t AF well. It isn’t complicated but little d!ck beans like yourself like to come and have a little moan like what you want is somehow important and needs to be validated by posting it on the Internet. I’m SO sorry that you can’t operate a simple function. This lens isn’t for you, but it was never going to be for you anyway so you are making yourself feel better about not buying it.
Kermit is my favorite muppet. Maybe Fonzy…can’t decide. They’d have to fight to the death.
This isn’t a discussion, it never ever is on here. It is a sad old man whinge fest.
And of course Loxia and Samyang lenses aren’t focus by wire, they are MANUAL FOCUS lenses. But you are such a brave Internet warrior that little things like that aren’t important. Of course all CDAF lenses should be mechanically linked MF lenses that also happen to AF perfectly because otherwise little Internet d!ckbean will have a little iddy-biddy sook on the Internet about how the bad camera that he tried in the camera store didn’t work exactly how he expected it to on the very first try, bad camera, bad!
You own the almighty 58mm 1.4 huh. Nice lens.
Its alright. I surely wouldnt call it almighty. Its soft wide open and lacks contrast. Usable from F2 onwards. The 58/1.2 is much better in every regard.
Not a major. I didn’t like it to start with but now used to it. It’s like anything. You get used to it…
This really sucks, what’s the point of that screen then? The bad MF will slow you down whatever the case.
The screen is for setting a focus distance, not really sure how you expect that to be fast using a completely manual lens?
I can’t quite describe this…but an engraved scale and linear focusing movement is tried and true, it’s intuitive to use and has a good learning curve, maybe with this mechanism and its slowing down and speeding up you might eventually get the hang of one lens, but changing to another means step 1 all over and most likely you’ll lose the hang of using the first lens while trying to get used to the second. And the screen is tiny, less of the scale and a smaller font mean a slower read.
Oddly enough, I’m actually a big fan of the focus-by-wire in the 55mm f/1.8 FE. I find it way easier to focus than some direct-focus AF lenses.
ditto on the 35/2.8
(best buy i’ve done in a long time, ~$550 now on eebay)
Boo!
Feel free to keep your opinion to yourself. I sure didnt ask for it. And its you who is trolling. And you who is an old angry man, who apparently needs to get laid to calm the nerves. Go play with yourself, might actually help with your anger issues.
So you are allowed to share your worthless nonsensical opinion but I’m not allowed to share mine? Nice. It was you who blew up with your ranting and swearing and anger champ. I know it is really hard to face facts, but you haven’t offered one single bit of useful information to this ‘discussion’ other than the same tired old moans that AF lenses are not like MF lenses. Get over yourself.
What nonsensical opinion? All I said was that fly-by-wire MF mode is laggy and I wish more AF lenses had a mechanical coupling. That it felt better in MF mode. Or alternatively a non-laggy fly-by-wire. At which point you came back with insults for no apparent reason. You seemed to read whatever the heck you wanted to see, so that you could vent yourself. At no point I said that MF is better than AF – you made that crap up.
I didn’t say anything that warranted such a response and the way I see it, my response was exactly what you deserved. Now you seem to be offended that I said something about your troll-like comment. That is just funny 🙂
When you speak of the Otus…..we talking almighty 55 or demi-god of the optical underworld 85mm. I’d punch a squirrel for that 85 man- so sweet.