Last Friday I posted a low rated rumor from a Chinese source that unveiled a possible Sony 2012-2013 camera roadmap (Click here to read that article). I asked you which camera you would buy from the rumored list. The result is quite clear with Full Frame cameras beating every APS-C model:
[poll id=”91″]
Of course there is a difference between a “wish” and a real “purchase” of a product. And it’s inevitable that Full Frame has a sort of magic attraction when compared with APS-C cameras. But recent Nikon D800 huge preorder numbers and the Canon 5dmarkIII expectations make me wonder WHY in your opinion Sony could appeal you compared to those two cameras.
So please let me and Sony know what aspects from a Sony FF you think are appealing you:
[poll id=”92″]
If you have another reason I didn’t mention in the poll please comment this post and I will add it to the POLL. Thanks!
Reminder: The Chinese roadmap says that:
a99, 24 million pixels, 2012 (September)
a950 (a1), 36 million pixels, 2013 (February) -> The [shoplink 3032]A900 successor[/shoplink]
Fullframe NEX in late 2013.
The only thing I can tell you via trusted sources is that the A99 rumor is correct, and that other FF cameras will be announced in 2013.
159 Responses
My reason: Better colors out of the camera. Canikon (Olympus) colors leave me cold. I have no experience with Pentax or anyone else.
Even processed colors from most Sony cameras are very good. A900 had highest color accuracy between dSLR. They prefer less noise supression in favor of better CFA and thus colors. Which is exactly what I like.
Although yes, I would like to have mirrorless FF even if it would be produced by anyone else.
Yes, mirrorless fullframe would take a significant chunk out of canon & nikon fullframe sells! especially a NEX9 fullframe – because you can adapt it for every kind of lens out there for the short flange of the NEX. And add focus peaking – every lens out there.
HUGE chunk of sells from canikon!
You don’t even know what you’re talking about!!!!!
Did you?
I like everything about Sony except their flash system is aweful with no in body control and too narrow a fec range, too few manual selections (should go down to 1/256). Also they need to offer a better sound monitoring solution and allow for af with in the allowed range of their tech (f1.4 – 5.6 @ any shutter speed) on their slts. If they do that with a 24mp full frame I would pay 5000$. Especially if they can fix the in body IS during video so you can choose, mechanical IS, software IS (with crop) or no IS and selectable audio recording levels with a clean HDMI out. So for shorter clips when moving you would have the in body stabalization at the cost of over heating. For close ups you could
Use software (or stack in body with software stabalization! Wouldnt that be awesome!) or turn it off on tripod.
Doing this would make the camera competitive with Nikon/cannon for stills as the flash system would be comparable and exceed them in video offering. The camera would be ballast ic with good glass. I would probably pay 10k for it as it would be everything I need in a camera.
i find sony flash is fine. i find my newly brought F43 are better then 430 and sb700 in many ways… i have like 10+ friend who owned sb700 return their flash countless time because of malfuction/defect…. even with replaced units.
Sb900 with overheat issue? alright SB910, but GN48(M)?
nikon/canon inbody commander that requires over 8 press/button to set groupA 1/4 power to 1/8?
while we suppose to do it with only less then 6 with sony F58 commander? seriously… you lack of understanding of cameras.
for video, please google “Nex VG10” or “Nex VG20” and get the best bang for buck with video.
Well, I think the flexible live view screen make creative photography at odd angles easy.
admin, i want to know, the upcoming sony organic 3 layer sensors which will cme in end of 2013, will there be a huge differnce in image quality and low light performance compared to the current DSLT APS-C EXMOR ? am waiting to get the A57 DSLT and use it for long term , should i wait for the new sensors or go for the a57?
I doubt Admin would know that, no one has seen that camera yes. Even if anyone said yes to you, you would need to take it with a pinch if salt until the reviews are out.
If we keep waiting for the best camera, we will never set down to shoot any pictures …
ye 🙂
will a99 be a FF??? i am buying a a77… i am from Bangladesh and most of the photographers use canon and nikon and also suggest me to buy a canon or nikon product but i bought a a33 and every 1 now saying that yea sony is good…:D but i am saying sony is best…:D i ll stay with Alpha….:D
fail!
EPIC FAIL!! LOL…. i think whats he trying to say is
“…will a99 be a GREAT FF???..”
Admin: As your previous poll result showed, it is the mythical FF NEX-9 that is on top!
Your new poll does not include that choice.
I would prefer a FF NEX over anything out there. Heck, I do prefer even an APS-C NEX over any DSLRs. 🙂
Sony: Make a compact FF mirrorless with a top notch EVF and superb sensor (offset micro lenses, high DR, low noise, etc). That will set you apart from the rest.
The poll includes “because I need a compact mirrorless FF ” 🙂
Overlooked that. Sorry!
Thanks! 🙂
I don’t think a compact body is the only reason a FF NEX-9 is on top. Many would buy such a body for adapting different old and new lenses even if the body was not compact. I am sure NEX-9 would get much less votes if only Sony lenses could be used on the body.
+1
in addition: better colors and much better handling (at least to some point)
My A900s fit my hand perfectly, the vertical grip is just perfect vompared to those crappy 5d mark II or d700 vertigal grips. the viewfinder is much better than the ones of both as well (the a77 in comparison has a rather stupid button layout and is way less comfortable). only thing i’d prefer on a canon is the dial control instead of the crappy sony joystick…
I think the dial is crappy myself.
+1
Because Canon is too much better than sony 😉
yeah right.
Depends…Which Canon and in what better.
interesting that 2 times more people want an (cheap) A600 than an A57 ! Me too ! And of course that A950 is in front of A99. But I don’t understand the NEX-9 hype, putting a 300g body on a 3000g lens makes no sense to me !?
+1
+ 2. no in body IS either.
I would not understand it either if you really plan to put a 3kg lens on a 300 g body all the time. The point of a full frame mirrorrless is the versatility, flexibility and adaptability. It’s a platform with tremendous potential.
it can’t be better if they play dumb as they do with the a77 and ignore people who want thetered shooting and remote control options as in the A700.
+1
Pff, we need some real info from Sony about the (possible) upcoming cameras.
I want to know if Sony will stay in FF DSLR/DSLT market and is commited.
I fear that they might go for NEX-only focus.
The fact there is not any full frame from Sony available for purchase at this moment, and also no announcement about a future model, is not a good sign.
don´t forget on the canon FF 4K mirorrles camera that is coming .. if it will be more compact than 5D I will be really interested..because the lens situation in sony camp is really really bad
4K, 16/9 display … what makes you belive that this thing will have en EF mount, and even if they will sell a EF version of it, most people will use pl lenses on it as DSLR lenses can’t do the job for professional video. (Not because of their optical performance but because of their Design and Mechanical differences.
Why do you think a Sony FF camera could be better than a Nikon or Canon FF?
because it’s a Sony.
that’s all.
Talking future is too far, let talking the fact 😀
Sony is already behind Canon for 3 years plus. I just realized that Sony still do not have any DSLR or SLT that deliver tether and FHD video mode while Canon 5DMK2 have done it on the past 3 years.
Something is wrong on Sony strategy upon 2011 A77 lineup that piss off many serious photographers with abandoned tether and named A77 as the successor to A700. is Sony over look this? Silly! Pathetic! if you look into Sony original slogan… so I help you guy change it 😀 lol…
SONY
Make.Sorry
SONY
Make.Delay
I’m pretty sure they decided about their roadmap/lineup pretty conciously and seriously. They may have just decided to NOT target the “serious” photographer at this stage but rather focus on ambitionned amateurs ..
I for my self was ready to change system until the A77 was available,then i tested the beast and its available features and based my buying decision on those facts. I bought the A77 as it provides good overall value at a reasonable amount of money. A 5dMK2 would have been a better alternative in terms of quality and features but it was beyond my current and future (lenses with IS) budget. Luckily there’s enough choice to make everyone happy, all you need to do is analyze your needs, compare and execute.
sony is good at photography like playstation is good making caffe’ Canon rulez 5d is way year better than alkas 900
and you base this on what? The a900 produces better colors and the AF system while not the best blows the AF system of the 5d away. Just ask anyone who uses the 5d. I have been told by numerous 5d users that the AF is not that good and that the colors the a900 produce are much better and that they could not get them with the 5d. Think before you type. geeze.
FF vs FF = equal (MP no care)
AF vs AF = equal (speed nore care)
FHD vs ___ = 1 step behind
Im using camera for photos, if I wished for movies, I would get something that can do that.
Sony A900 is same level as 1Ds MK3, period (actually neither of those has HD or any video). Neither does D700 (and it doesnt seem to hurt Nikon sales).
A900 vs 5DMK2
much better colors compared to 5DMK2, which colors sux
no pattern noise (banding) in shadows
great DR
great detail (A900 has much higher lp/mm that 5DMK2 is capable, due Canon using its super-strong AA filter)
in body IS vs lens IS (depends what you shoot, IBIS is usefull for shorter focal lengths, lens IS for longer, but since 5DMK2 AF is fail, IS wont help you much anyway)
more FPS
native Zeiss lens
great battery grip
great flash (HVL-58AM)
Pretty much only thing in which is 5DMK2 “better” is that it has LV and video. But if you get camera from m4/3 line, you will get much better video than 5DMK2 will be ever able to produce.
Advantage or some superiority of 5DMK2 is only in ppl mind, that camera pretty much sux, even compared to old 5D. And if someone really wants video, theres plenty of choices on market right now, much better than 5DMK2. But there isnt much better choices for photos than A900 (cause you cant buy D800E yet :D).
Well the Alpha 580 is pretty decent for video actually it delivers way better Images at 1080/50i then the 5d MK2 does. It just needs a good lens attached to it but it does produce great images especially considering the ridiculously low price of it. (It needs really decent lenses though)
No question the 5D MK2 is a good camera and I’ve also used in a studio several times because it was the studios camera, but then again the handling is totally crap compared to the 700/850/900 and the images don’t look as good as you would expect from a FF DSLR. Worst thing is that some important lenses as e.g. the 80 1.2L focus horribly slow, no competition to my Minolta 85 F1.4G RS.
I am sorry but if you are trying to shoot any type of movement or action then AF is important and the AF of the a900 smokes the 5d. I know because I have used the a900 for sports. Friends that have the 5d have said they could never do that. Video? Really. Who cares about not having video in a DSLR. I never use video. goodness. Get a life.
@Demonius +1000 All the reasons you just cited – reasons that many internationally recognised togs are ditching Canon for Nikon now. Sony needs to crack on and produce an updated A900, I love mine but would love an update with better high Iso, slightly lighter body.
+1 Canon 5d2 and 5D original’s AF system is shit. I had 24 1.4, 35 1.4 and 50 1.4 from Canon and I had around 20% fail focus situations. I changed to Zeiss for the 25 and 50 and I still couldnt trust the AF confirm so I changed the focusing screen to a Brightscreen and began to increase my hit ratio. The 5D has a brilliant image quality but if you can’t focus properly, what is all that good for?
Although Sony’s AF may be slower, it is far more accurate and would take advantage of any other + you can attribute to the a900/a850.
With my NEX 7 now I can tell you even its average AF contrast detection is better that 5D2, although slower. Lets also think that MF on a NEX is child’s play compared to relying on an AF system that has many down sides and is around 6 -7 years old (5D2 inherited the old 5D’s AF system)
I think that Canon made serious mistake with 5DMK2 AF, hope they wont make it again with 5DMK3 (or whatever it will be). So far it seems that 5DMK3 should be “less crippled” camera compared to 5DMK2. If they wont do 5DMK3 much better than 5DMK2, then they can say goodbye to a lot of users.
Tho I never understood why Canon created 5DMK2 this way. D700 doesnt feel like crippled camera even compared to D3. It feels simply like lower level model. Not mentioning A850 or A900 which definitely feels like top notch cameras. When you handle 5DMK2, its like if someone took good camera (in this case 1DsMK3) and then removed everything they could and crippled it to level which is just balances on verge of usability.
Its like if Canon was saying to its customers “You dont want to pay more for 1DsMK3? Then play with this half broken variant of it. You dont deserve more for your money.” Which is complete opposite of what is Nikon or Sony doing.
You are obviously a fan boy.
The A77 is certainly not pathetic.
But the fact there is no Sony camera now with FF and/or tethering, that is bad indeed.
I am not a fanboy. I am seriously looking for a Sony body with tether and FHD video. as tether as concern in body, definitely the body will likely be semi-pro (apsc) or pro (FF). And now I have fall love to Sony with manual video FHD60p, just the tether missing…
And Sony not suppose to claim that A77 is succesor to A700. It mislead user imo 😀
So please enlighten me why you are still looking at a Sony body when a Canon body has what you need. This constant whining and comparing to the other side is just tiresome. I would switch to Canon camp immediately if they offer what I need, but so far they have not.
+1
+1
Hi, I own a A55 (first camera) since the day it came out. We always have prefered Sony. However, Sony is not covering everybody’s needs, and that’s why I turned to Nikon. I will not trash Sony, it is a wonderful company, I just don’t feel their main target is Pro Camera Equipment. Pre ordered D800E ’cause it better suits my needs and is out shortly. Is that or waiting for something that might never happen. I come here every day to read the news or rumors, and I don’t get the fanboys that come here and say something bad thinking that just because they said it, then it becomes a fact. We have wonderful products from wonderful brands, buy what you want, leave the rest alone. Joe is right, enjoy, respect and shut up.
sony said,
NO LV with its native, they need proper AF with LV, thats mature… and they introduce QLV.
then sony said,
NO Video with native (manual AF in early system) focus (CDAF on later system)…., they need proper AF with Video… thats mature… and they introduce SLT, video with phase detect, there is noone with video phase detect yet (nikon1 has no proper paper that shows how their phase detect works, so it still sound fishy to me)
and your point is? i think QLV and SLT is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy 1 STEP ahead of Everyone else.
and did you ever use 5DII tethering? or video? or LV… or do u even ever own a camera? your accusation sound so clueless between 5D2 or even Sony’s SLT/DLSR
Honestly the only reason is because I already own a range of Sony lenses.
I’m still using the A700 since 2007 and have been waiting for years to upgrade to FF. I wasn’t convinced that A900/850 are good enough in particular on the AF speed and video function (none).
I don’t know how long do I still have to wait for the A99 or A950 and by the time it’s launched probably CaNikon will be another step ahead. I’m not asking for a sophisticated FF camera, 16mp is good enough, good AF and ISO performance. Am I asking too much.
I am really tempted to go for Nikon D800 but am giving myself another 6 months before I dump all my Sony lenses!
Same here. Currently on A77, looking to upgrade to FF.
Need good ISO and good AF. Megapixels not important.
But I’m not sure how much longer I can wait about news for Sony FF cameras.
Canon 5D Mk III will be announced in 4 days.
So Sony, hurry up !
No need to hurry. Reviews sale, not paper releases.
Eugene the AF of the a900 and a850 is worlds better than the a700. No video of course though.
what about in body stabilisation!? thats a HUGE plus for sony
Yes, if the Sony lenses would be cheaper than the Canikon counterparts with in-lens stabilization technology.
But I’m not sure that Sony / Zeiss G lenses are cheaper?
No, Zeiss lens are not cheaper option than Canon or Nikon lens. Just better option. 🙂 Although they really lack build quality.
On other hand, you cant get 135mm f1.8 for anything else than Sony. This lens is sometimes best reason to get A900 or A850. Or STF lens, if someone is sucker for bokeh.
But you dont need new lens that much, you can use A900 and older Minolta lens, which are still very good and compared to new ones very cheap. 28-70mm f2.8 G from Minolta is something even today..
but why build a weather proof body – when sony doesnt have any weather proof lenses???
and i do have the STF lens, it is such a major head scratcher that the revised version doesnt do anything for focus creep. no focus lock on barrel. same with some of sony other lenses, they have zoom creep.
but one thing sony have exclusively is autofocus zeiss!
weather sealing is a double edged sword, u may not understand it until u seen it.
my friend canon was brought to a very cold place (mountains) for several weeks, and when he came down, he put his camera in the drybox… since the camera is in the mountain for weeks, moisture WILL build up inside (changing lens, or lens that are left in bag)… so the moisture are stuck inside on his 50F1.2 mounted on his 5D2… and he left for another assignment (1 month) without his camera (in the drybox).
to his horror when he return from his trip, due to weather seal, the moisture was stuck inside the 50F1.2 and it grew fungus spores (just little really fine markings) all over(inside) the lens! IN THE DRYBOX! his 5D2’s OVF is clawed with fungus spores~.
say hello to weather sealing! it seals the moisture inside ur camera too!
i hope it clear many misconcept of the benefits of weather sealing…. i just dont understand why ppl discriminate on camera without weather sealing. my friend is pisssed with weather sealing.
I hope Sony Alpha would like to make a hybrid-autofocus SLT camera with both phase-detection AF and contrast-detection AF based on a focus rectangle you can move around in the viewfinder, which two AF methods you can select from after the photo conditions.
Contrast-detection AF based on a rectangle area has a higher focus accuracy and manage the AF for low-contrast surfaces much better, but is slower.
Contrast-detection AF is mainly a firmware product, so should not increase the cost of including such a hybrid AF system in SLT models.
In my Sony SLT-A55 I miss the high precision and low-contrast AF of the contrast-detection AF system in my previous Canon SX1 IS camera!
But I like the speed and the object tracing AF of the Sony A55:s current phase detection AF system!
One of the things that made me stay with Sony was Minolta was bought is the swivel LCD which just gets better from model to model while Canon/Nikon continue to think that this is a feature for the non-pro models.
Correct ! I like that too.
+1
+1000
😀
one reason i buy sony for my first DSLR is that swivel LCD on my a300 😀
henk, I agree with you about in body stabilisation!
My conclusion is that the Sensor Shift body based image stabilization systems (as Sony Alpha use), with up to 5-axis stabilizing possibility, will outperforme the 2-axis in lens optical image stabilizing systems in the long run!
And that’s exciting considering that both Nikon and Canon invested in the in lens optical image stabilizing systems, with its limitations for the future!
Read about the 5-axis Sensor Shift body based image stabilizing systems if the new Olympus E-M5 mirrorless camera:
https://plus.google.com/103162570939535906961/posts/A81YUSZKpnv#103162570939535906961/posts/A81YUSZKpnv
agreed.
try
5D2+50F1.4, at F1.4, iso6400, 1/60 vs
A850+50F1.4, at F1.4, iso1600, 1/15.
result of A850 at average 1/10-1/15 speed (mind you, iso1600 F1.4 that give you 1/10-1/15 means it really Low Light…. and btw, A850 focus lock on with 100% accuracy)
here, (all shot in jpeg and color postprocessed)
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.342430939102482.92179.228819337130310&type=3
i really really love to see 5D2 do that… imagine the noise from 6400 @.@
Thank you for that excellent link. 😉
I vantaggi delle macchine fotografiche Sony riguardano la possibilità di usufruire delle strabilianti ottiche zeiss come il 135 f 1.8 (in mio possesso) costruito in esclusiva per sony e di avere i corpi macchina stabilizzati. Secondo il mio punto di vista la tecnologia SLT non è ancora pronta per sostituire il sistema specchio delle reflex tradizionali e anche se lo fosse rimarrebbe comunque lo svantaggio che tale sistema non fa confluire tutta la luce che filtra attraverso l’obiettivo al sensore che, pertanto, produce più rumore rispetto ad un analogo sensore con la stessa densità di pixel di una reflex tradizionale. Vorrei che sony produca una reflex ff tradizionale con 18 megapixel con sensore cmos tipo l’ultimo denominato xtrans della fujifilm e, nel contempo, ottiche zeiss 200 f 2 ed altri tele
When shooting still in day light, stabilizer not really important.
When shoot video with external stabilizer, stabilizer cost crop factor 1.8x
….actually no point i mentioned above. Actually I not mean Sony not good. Just good thing do not remove, like IBIS 😀 tether… continue adding good stuff in =awesome!
They are still cameras. Who in the world really cares for using them for video? That is not the primary reason for having a DSLR. If that is the only reason you use a DSLR then you might want to look into video cameras. Get a life.
why pay more if you can save money??? why pay 100% more for a video camera with smaller sensor, when you can pay 10% more and use video on your camera with bigger sensor???
🙁 this should have been a no brainer!
all the famous photogs i see use tether NOT for video!
a no brainer? not. I could care less about using the camera for video. Read what I wrote. I do not do video and I could care less about video. Why should I have to pay extra for my camera so you can do video? A real no brainer!!!
I’d say we’re already reached the point where the extra sales to videographers are sufficient to completely offset the cost of adding a video mode in.
did u say “get a life”. then what r u doing here??? LOL!
what are you doing gay? get a life? I would say that they still charge extra for the video garbage.
oh and get an education so you can get a life. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
• Deeper colour filter array, and corresponding richer colour response
• Aesthetically pleasing Minolta/G lenses
• In body stabilisation
Canon and Nikon are too willing to sacrifice the artistic qualities of the image for the sake of technical matters. To me the primary goal of a camera system should be to take the best looking picture possible.
You forgot the “… because i’m a Sony zealot fanboy.” option
BECAUSE –
Sony designs were Minolta designs reborn. Minolta was the most innovative camera company in the world with countless “firsts”. I hoped Sony would continue that tradition. I fear they will downgrade the Minolta innovation to just another boring consumer product.
Sony, you need HERO products to help sell the consumer products. Little CaNikons sell better because of trickle down legend from the big CaNikons. That’s why car companies have one SuperCar in the lineup… to help sell all the other stuff.
If you get Pros/Enthusiast speaking highly of the Top Shelf cameras, then basic consumers will be more confident in purchasing the lower end products.
FF Mirrorless that accepts full function Alpha Mount adapter. But make it an adapter system with short registration as so many other lenses can be fit… That’s one thing that made Canon so popular because many different lens brands could be fit. Now you have EVF and can make old lenses operate more efficiently on new cameras.
Sony… Please take advantage of modern technology. It’s 2012… TETHERING should be a basic standard as much as a tripod socket. No excuses for no tethering or remote control of camera functions. Nikon D800 can be controlled remotely, so there are infinite more opportunities for mounting camera to a car bumper or in the bird house. But Sony forces user to touch camera just to take a photo in real time or shoot video.
And stop releasing your products for any Tom Dick Hairy to make stupid worthless reviews with six months before release. Get your premium cameras into the hands of professionals to make excellent promos before release.
Remember Canon’s success with the Laforet video?
http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/galleries/galleries/sample_videos/reverie.shtml
That’s the first thing ANYONE saw on that camera. But Sony early reviews are made by jokers who’ve never been paid a dime to take a photograph in their life. Class up your act Sony. The Pros are speaking and the Consumers are listening to them.
Leave the Smile/Face detection for those who don’t know what a Smiling Face looks like.
Feb 2012
There is a HUGE group of people (over 1M) in the US, professionals but not photo professionals (lawyers, doctors, researchers, corporation managers, etc.). They need a very good quality camera x indoor photos AND VIDEO. VIDEO is a critical feature. Also x family photos, making business presentations, etc. Usually it is not practical (takes time) or cost/effective (too expensive) to hire a photography professional (often need is unpredictable, like a conference, an event, etc.). These individuals take many photos/ videos indoor without flash. They lack the time to set up tripods, lights, etc. (often conditions are not appropriate x it). They need a camera that can take photos (videos) in very low light ( = HIGH pixel size), excellent stabilization (preferably in the body, not lens, but this is not critical, quality is critical), very fast autofocus x video.
In my experience (using cameras x many years), the GH2 is good, but not good enough in low light. Would need at least 4x (like a Nikon D4). The Nikons I tried (5100, D7000) and Canon (60D, others) and reviews are far too slow with autofocus in video (live view). 16 Mb pixels are enough
The solution is obvious: A FF camera (with large pixel size). Like Nikon D4. With fast autofocus like GH2 or Olympus. If very fast autofocus can be implemented with contrast detection, then phase detection would not be needed and the mirror of Sony would not be needed.
Price is a factor after $2.5K for camera + a zoom lens 14 mm to 100 mm (needed x indoor and some outdoor).
The people reading photo web sites are rarely professionals in fields other than photography. They cannot speak for 500K health professionals in the US, 100K lawyers, 500K business owners, 1M educators. Uses include real estate, car repairs, medicine, school activities, education (all levels), etc. I use my SLR, a GH2, but it is limited in low light (most situations), and sometimes too slow to focus.
Problems with low light: shutter speed too long (slower than 1/15), shakes camera too much, out of focus. They can be fixed with faster focus, more sensitivity (allowing faster shutter speeds), better stabilization. A D4 or Canon with fast autofocus x video and good stabilization would do. Or a FF Sony. The technology exists. A key issue overlooked by many is that a short video, 1′ to 2′, is often critical in many business situations. It cannot be replaced with 10 fps. It would be getter to have 120 fps.
Some good points here. You might also add to your list organizations such as police departments,fire departments, prisons, city planning departments, etc.
I agree 100% with you Clyde. When was the last time you went to a wedding or any event and saw a pro shooting with a Sony. Build a Sony that the pros want to use. As the saying goes, build it and they will come. And also buy.
I can’t remember one review of NEX-7 or a77 that was worth anything beyond DigRev’s hot girlfriend holding one of the cameras for a second. But four years later, I still remember the Laforet video of the Canon 5DMKII.
Canon put the camera into the hands of a respected artist first… and the results made everyone cry in lust for more. Only later did the Geeks start ripping it apart… but it was the art that sold the camera.
Sony gives their new tech to the Geeks first… and never sponsor a professional artist to inspire how the camera can be used.
The only weddings I’ve seen shot on Sony were the ones I did. Everyone there with a little CaNikon wants to get a curious peek of it too. And that’s the point… One job where the hired Pro Tog has a Sony in hand will speak volumes more to the dozens of others there who brought their Rebel CaNikon to the party. That’s the best publicity that Sony could ask for. These wanna be shooters wanna see what the Pros are using. And they wanna be different and unique among their peers. Let them see the Cinnabar “α” everywhere they see a professional hired tog.
…and running a good marketing campaign would help too. When was the last time you saw a Sony dSLR/SLT on television? I see Nikon on television a fair bit.
Before I bought the A200 I was looking at Canon and Nikon. I simply didn’t know that Sony did dSLRs and that’s shocking!
They should put this advert on television:
http://youtu.be/OE7WMCQsJFc
All the marketing money went to that and that was that…
Sponsor someone from Magnum, Reportage by Getty Images or VII and you will see!
Your are correct. Each Sunday I check the advertisements in my newspapers. Whether it’s Staples, Best Buy, Target, Kits on up to the local stores that cater to more serious photographers, it’s Canon and Nikon. The Nikon V1 and J1 have been advertised lately like crazy. They are not great cameras, but I bet they are selling like crazy because of heavy advertising. If Sony did the same thing and offered better training and “spiffs” to the sales staff, you would see sales numbers go through the roof. People don’t always buy the best camera, they buy what is cool. That’s why there are white, yellow, blue, red and green cameras on the market. It’s old news that marketing, display, and image sell the product. Sony, I am available to do this for you.
Last 4-5 years i’ve been on a look out for a sony camera being used by a pro. I saw exactly 0. Saw ~20 with canons, ~10 with Nikons, and 0 w sony. These are rough gestimates of course, but you get a picture.
i shoot weddings, with my A300, bad camera… it limits my creativity due to its less reliable AF.
there is this one time, i attended a very close friend of mine’s wedding. i’m not the official so i just shoot my stuff from a distance and try not to block the OP… they (3 guys, acting really pro) using 7D, videos and pictures… one of them came up to me and tease my camera, and he ask to see my photo, thats the worst thing he can ask for,… after me showing off some of my photo, he walked away in silence… for the rest of the day/night, i realize, whenever i am close to them, they walked away, like avoiding me…
a week later when i pass my photo to my friend, she was stunned with my work, and she keep complaining how terrible the photo taken by the hired OP.
now, since when GEAR determine how great your photo are? i’m not PRO. im just a hobbyist.
(the wedding i was shooting with 135Z and 35G)mmmm, okay, maybe the gear does has something to do with it…. Prime with stabilizer… beat that.
Because the Sony a900 is the only full-frame SLR that will accept a Leica Summilux-R 1.4/35, and I expect its successor will, too. I don’t own one, but it is an aspirational goal for me.
I still prefer a mirrorless FF, but I would love to have the option of an SLR. I’m not too excited about SLT.
I agree with Clyde – Sony has to make some units that are aspirational, and try to hit some out of the park. To me, that means making some units that have ultimate image quality – and now that Sony is taking their sweet time in putting out their high end units they have a period to refine the sensors and look at whether they REALLY want SLT for these units. If so, then PLEASE give us the option to have mirror lock up and no AA for those of use who want to use a naked sensor, as describe by Sean Reid in this article on Luminous Landscape.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/the_naked_sensor.shtml
We want naked sensors, because as this second article on Luminous Landscape (part 2 of a series by Mark Dubovoy) “Everything Matters” – including resolution.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/everything_matters_part_2.shtml
I’d forego many other features to get the best resolving camera possible, and feel that Sony doesn’t have to surrender the field of quality images to the competition.
Finally, in terms of digial video – some companies are on the verge of putting out consumer models of the Red unit that is currently being used for recording cinema in 4k, (i.e., 8 megapixel per frame) that can simultaneously take 8 megapixel stills – which can be used for promotional or other purposes without having to use a stills photographer shooting from an angle that isn’t on line with the video (or as some photographers say, having to do later and expensive set ups with actors present to recreate scenes). So, I think it’d be well within Sony’s ability to go to 4K now – and anticipate this format’s tvs will come down in price shortly – because as some authors feel, THIS and NOT 3D is the immersive media of the future.
My main reason is because of its 1x crop for manual focus lenses. I shoot almost exclusively with film lenses and I tend to shoot landscapes. Although it’s a fairly minor reason, I really like the idea of not having to worry about the crop factor when I’m trying to get a super wide shot (other than using the 16mm E lens).
I’m not a pro and I’m fairly poor so I’ve been going as economical as possible with the lenses and adapters. I think a FF sensor on an NEX for me doubles in value because of the image quality and because of the increased range of economical wide angle lenses that open up for me.
Unless this FF NEX is approaching M9 prices, which I doubt, I will definitely be saving up for it.
Please give us choices with a Full Frame Mirrorless, Sony!
I would like to see both the new 24MP High ISO Full Frame Sensor and the 36MP High Definition Full Frame Sensor put into NEX Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras. That way the user could decide between a killer low light camera or one that has unmatched detail.
I’m more for high ISO, I love my Nikon D700 and would like a Sony Full Frame Mirrorless that offers similar performance, with video!
Honestly, my list of reasons to pick Sony is very small
In body stabilising is a massive plus
Plus I already have lenses.
Apart from that, I don’t think the a99 can beat the d800. Call me sceptical, but the d800 looks incredibly versatile and I’m not convinced by EVF yet.
Because Sony Cameras Make Sense (Ergonomically)
Because Sony Filters Retain More Saturation
I’m hoping that we get a Anx-9, A slightly larger FF-Nex-9 camera with EVF and SSS with a highly integrated AF-adapter.
I bought a nex 3 to play and 9mo later sold my A900, I still miss the SSS, but I’d prefer manual lenses every day.
Sony’s FF NEX will be better than any Nikon or Canon mirrorless FF because Canon or Nikon won’t build a better one. It’s not that they can’t build a better FF mirrorless, they just won’t, or if they do it will be intentionally crippled… it would just draw too much business away from their DSLR market.
Untill mirrorless cameras are considered a “pro” option the big guys aren’t going to muddy the waters of their pro business. Right now, mirror=pro and that’s how most people see it. That’s why you see so many soccer moms and fauxtographers with Canon Rebels… even if they only use the LCD screen and never actually look through the viewfinder.
Sony’s uniquely placed as having the tech to build a really great FF mirrorless that will attract more users and not mess with their DSLR sales in a negative way.
Pros are buying and using Mirrorless. The resistance is coming from fanboys who think that Big/Bulky/Heavy DSLRs make them look Pro.
Many Pros subscribe to the idea of “Right tool for the job.” And will use anything from a V1 to a MFD, if it fits the job.
Don’t be ridiculous, it’s about ergonomics and performance, both of which are shit on a mirror-less.
Don’t be stupid: SLTs are inferior compared to mirrorless. The sooner sony will abandon this crap the better for them. The only SLT advantage over NEX is PDAF, but this will be eliminated very soon (even without on sensor PDAF, which is another ridiculous idea).
Still, NEX-7 has MUCH better IQ (more light + superior M-mount lenses you can install)
He said dSLRs you idiot.
I shoot Primes Only. For me, the ergonomics of a small/light camera are better that an over-sized DSLR. I do use a Canon 1Ds mkII with a 90mm f/2.8 T&S lens, on a Foba stand, to shoot table top ads. But I have No Interest in hand holding a Big/Bulky/Heavy DSLR for 8 hours. YMMV.
Then stop trying to tell other people what THEY want from a camera. You like small cameras, SO WHAT?
c.d.embrey thats great that you don’t need a large body for your work but don’t be so fucking stupid to assume that other professionals use large bodies just to “LOOK” pro. The added size offers manual controls and direct access to features NOT JUST APERTURE, SHUTTER SPEED, but AEL, metering, iso, wb, drive, EVERYTHING that some pros NEED to have quick access to.
Those of us who cover events regularly have a speedlight mounted, usually with pocket wizards velcroed to either the light or body (heavy)- we are shooting with 2.8 zooms that are big and heavy, not to look cool but out of necessity. A large body helps to BALANCE that kind of lens. Grips that therefore contour to your entire hand and not just your fucking fingertips are essential when you are doing 10+ hour shoots with large lenses like these, especially with a mounted speedlight. For weddings and event using external lighting and multiple off-camera flashes for longer than the life of ONE battery, I’d use an A900 any day over an NEX7. Its NOT meant for EVERY type of photography.
1. I don’t need FullFrame.
2. Cost isn’t a factor, I buy the right tool for the job.
3. I don’t need video, because I have real video cameras.
4. I prefer Canon’s IS or Nikon’s VR to In Body.
5. Zeiss lenses are Very Good, but I like the Look of Nikon lenses better.
6. Canon and Nikon have tethering, and Sony Doesn’t. Duh.
Yeah, I agree with you, how a lens looks makes so much better pictures.
LOL
A lenses “Look” is not the exterior. It is how it renders the photo. Zeiss, Canon and Nikon all have a specific look.
Yes of course you meant that…
You seem intent on flaming the guy, but it isn’t especially clear why.
Different brands compute their lenses to render in different ways to maintain consistency within their lineup and retain a particular lens design philosophy. It was quite obvious that his comment was about that.
so what he meant was zeiss renders very good, but he like “less than” very good rendering of the nikons! (but cost doesnt matter because he a billionaire)
@ Matgay, I find the Zeiss lenses to be too “Clinically Sharp.” This can be cured by a light diffusion filter.
I think that the Cooke Cine lenses http://www.cookeoptics.com/ have the best Look of any lens.
@c.d.embrey
cookes are for large formats: larger sensor, lesser demand on lenses
The Cooke cine lenses cover Super-35, which is similar (slightly wider and shorter) to APS. They do still make one or two large format lenses, but that isn’t their primary market.
I’m a big fan of the look of Cooke lenses, too. Unfortunately they’re expensive, manual focus lenses that don’t cover 135 format.
I am very surprised you prefer lenses that are less sharp… what the hell? You know you can reduce sharpening again as stated with a lens filter, or in-camera and in post-processing?
Again.. what on earth? Sharpness is GREAT. Especially when it comes to cropping or printing large… … … confuse me.
So why are you here?
Because I own a Sony NEX 5n. And I’m impressed with it’s output.
I also own Canon, Nikon and Toyo cameras. Not a fanboy, I’m a tool user.
More like a tool.
Why do you insist on making personal attacks against people instead of addressing anything he said? He answered your question very well, but your one-line attacks convey no useful information, and won’t help anyone.
People should be allowed to express their opinions, whether you agree with them or not. Generally, people (or entities) that refuse to keep open ears and minds are doomed to fail.
I would hate to see Sony’s user base dwindle down to only the most obsessed fanboys and people intent on shutting out everyone else’s voice.
FF mirrorless could be a bit smaller than a cannon rebel… very handy!
I would get a FF nex-9 if they would make a fast prime like 50mm f1.4 for it right away, instead of a cheap and slow kit lens. Think a FF Fuji X pro… Droool
The prospect of a full frame NEX terrifies me, it will vaporize my money…
My favourite argument for a Full Frame NEX is missing, since I’d love to use my old manual full frame lenses range the same way as I’m already using them with my NEX-5.
A $3000 FF NEX-9 versus a $7000 Leica FF M9???… That could be very interesting…
i’d take the NEX9 with leica lenses anyday!!! 36mp vs 18mp? latest tech vs 4yr old tech??? save your money for the good glass!
YES!!!
Personally I would have liked to see Sony come out with a SLT A85 FF 24Mp first!
Then a SLT A99 FF 36Mp to compete with the D800.
I am a enthusiastic amateur who has never bought into the SLR 75+ year flapping mirror technology.
When Sony came out with the NEX-5 I bought it, followed by the A55 and now the A77.
Perhaps I am Sony’s SLT target market because I now have a couple of Zeiss lenses and a couple of big G telephotos…
The SLT’s got me into buying lenses!!!… That’s the point, right?
If I decide to get into FF I will wait until the NEX comes out and look at it. A comment above sounds about right… A FF NEX-9 with a Zeiss 50mm F1.4 would really hit the spot!
Not sure about the A99 unless it is really superior to the A77. If it is then I will probably upgrade from the A77 which will then join my A55 and NEX-5 on eBay…
right now a lot of people haven’t bought into the STL approach, some because of the EVF, others because of the light loss.
Seems to me if sony could just make the translucent mirror have a flip up option so you could switch between keeping it locked down (for movie/sports tracking) or flip up mode to gain that extra bit of light (for say indoor ambient light shots) straight away they’d eliminate half of the objections. In time I suspect everyone will be won over by the EVF, the tech just needs to improve.
you are forgetting that even though there is a 1/2 stop light loss from translucent mirror, it is offset by no mirror slap vibration of a regular dslr. now there is such a thing as mirror lock up, but who really uses it much? mirror lockup is slowwww.
That’s one advantage of the SLT design, but there are also disadvantages (as godsakes points out) that make some reluctant to stomach those cameras, even if they already have plenty of money invested in Sony gear.
One thing that you’re also forgetting is the time it takes to restart live view during a continuous burst (analogous to the time it takes for a DSLR to drop the mirror after an exposure). Current models don’t even try to provide live view during a burst. And don’t forget power consumption too – EVFs drain battery power.
If Sony can make big improvements in all of these areas, I think more people would be willing to stick with the Sony system.
The mirror slap is probably a bigger deal on FF but in the case of the A700 vs A77 I can’t say the mirror slap was ever much of a deal (at least not compared to the slap you get on a A850)
Also I don’t envisaged it as a mirror lock up mode (where you’d have to rely on contrast detection or manual focus) but rather as simply replacing a traditional mirror with a translucent mirror in the same mechanical housing i.e. it would be capable of flipping up at say 5fps it would just come at the cost not being able to continuously track the subject.
If nothing else it gives review sites like DXO a means of comparing image quality without the translucent mirror taking anything away.
A99 can be very interesting camera. Not better then D800 or D4, just different. It can be 24mp/8fps(with AF)/12fps(without) camera with the best LV, best AF in video. If it will be priced like A900, it can make alot of troubles for 5Dm3.
There’s no magic in FF, it’s real! It’s FF lol! You can get that awesome sexy film look! That’s my reason ^^
The lack of tethering is unexplainable. It is like Sony was ready to go to production and someone said “We forgot that tethering thing.” and the response was “Oh we will get that next time.” but of course forgot again. If the 99 does not have tethering I will be shocked and very disappointed.
Maybe you guys can clear something up for me. I do not see any benefit in the mirror. The mirrors only function is to provide an image to the view finder and does provide a bit of added protection to the sensor when the lens is removed. It also seems to be one of the limiting factors when shooting continously. We even go as far as locking up the mirror when using longer exposures to minimize vibration. Therefore, mirrorless has a significant advantage over mirror except you would need to use an EVF which I am not completely opposed to especially since I feel this will continue to improve and has already made a significant advance from previous versions. But this brings me to the next issue. Speed and accuracy of focusing. My mirrorless camera (5n) is slow. The SLT allows this to be improved exponentially. I heard nikons mirrorless focus fast and accurrate. I was just wondering if focus performance from a mirrorless format rival that of an SLT and if so why don’t they bulid a DSLR FF without the SLR and still be an alpha mount?
The Nikon 1 focuses fast due to 1/4 of the sensels on the sensor being phase detection sensors, so it behaves similarly to a SLR or SLT camera.
nikon1 is a midget sensor, less area to focus on, and midget sensors cannot get as shallow depth of field. put all of the same technology and same specs except in a larger apsc sensor, and the autofocus speed will be slower 100%
So you are basically saying at this point SLT will out perform mirrorless with respect to accuracy and speed of focusing in a FF camera.
What is the problem with fast focus and with some accuracy when a spot is selected? Even here, the NEX is slooow… 🙁
m4/3rds (GH-2, for example) focuses very fast compared to my NEX-7 (or the old NEX-5).
This is an area that Sony can improve a lot instead of trying to push the pellicle (SLT) stuff!
The new EM-5 is supposed to focus even faster!!
For the Full-Frame poll, you omitted an option for choosing not to buy a new FF from Sony. Owning an 850, D3s and 5DII for my business. I will pick a new Canon and new Nikon to replace my old cams, but will not get a new Sony FF. I have the A77 and NEX-7, and the stark difference between the SLT and non-SLT convinces me that the compromises of the SLT mirror are going to damage the IQ from the new FF camera to a level where it will not compete on any level against Canon or Nikon.
ff mirrorless = m mount lenses without crop
but corner performance would be a real challenge.
I just want high iso performance and built in IS…Nikon did wonders with Sony sensors, no reason sony can’t do wonders themselves…
My understanding is that in SLR with mirror, mirror reflects light used x focusing. With mirror UP there is no focusing (phase detection). That is why with mirror up, in video, use live view, which is slow contrast focus.
However, I wonder how many pixels are needed to focus. With a sensor with 20 Mb pixels, could 5% to 10% be used x focusing? Do sensors have defective pixels anyway (via manufacturing)? Image would not be affected in a way that can be seen. Use those pixels for phase focusing, if contrast focus cannot be done on the large lenses used with FF cameras.
Or perhaps a different algorithm could be used for focusing, mostly needed for video. In video, images follow each other, so the camera could predict the location of the focus and require less movement.
I also read that sometimes cameras are impaired due to processing power. But cameras are so expensive compared to a tablet or PC. The cost of more powerful processor could be a very small (under 10% of the cost of a camera, but provide a HUGe improvement in quality.
Would any of you guys consider NatGeo or Discovery photogs to be pros? Coz I swear i’ve seen at least one use it on an episode somewhere.
I know they do use Sony video equipment. If Sony video could lend the Sony still photography department some of its marketing people, that would be great!
Would any of you guys consider NatGeo or Discovery photogs to be pros?
Coz I swear i’ve seen at least one use it on an episode somewhere.
NatGeo & Discovery are Pro definitely.
Maybe we need to wait for more users, to be known by people
I just have to laugh when I hear people complain about the ‘big’ and ‘bulky’ weight of DSLR. Please! After coming from large and medium format film cameras to a A900 DSLR, it was great. A DSLR is a wonderful lightweight and extremely convenient tool! I truthfully don’t care what size sony’s new systems are just as long as they provide better images than the A900. I want to see 36mp +.
In all honesty, I think that the poll results won’t accurately affect how many cameras Sony can expect to sell if those models were released.
I suspect that the low-end APS-C models like the NEX-F3/SLT-a37 will sell the most (simply based on price), followed by higher end APS-C models like the NEX-G5, a600, and a57. Sales of the mirrorless FF NEX will probably be substantially lower than APS-C camera sales, and the more expensive A99/950 will probably sell even less.
But in the end, it would be awesome if Sony could introduce all of those models. If they do a good job with them, they could keep most or all current A-mount users from switching, while attracting more people to the system with the NEX and SLT designs.
If Sony makes another FF camera around the 2000USD mark, or below..they WIN! it doesn’t need video at all. make it just for photography for less than 2000USD and they win for sure. Offer video for more and it will be ok, But in this world where FF means an investment of thousands of dollars, anything below 2000USD with excellent quality and being FF will make the diference
SLT are better in performance and handling than NEX. I can imagine doing some wildlife with a 70-400 zoom attached to an NEX. 🙂
What everyone does not understand that its not the camera bodies which keeps pros away from Sony, but its lack of professional support and a good lens lineup. Both of which sony does not have.
I’m hoping for an amazing video mode a-la GH2. Not in terms of the codec, but the video downscaling instead of line skipping.
If I wanted to skip lines I’d grab a 5DMkII. Not complaining, but I’d rather have an amazing stills camera and an amazing video camera with full-frame without the shitty AF compromise.
Hopefully Sony comes out with something in the $2000-$2500 range that is decent at higher isos, or else what I’ll have to do is get a used D700, or possibly a new one since they might keep making the D700 with a price drop. I won’t be buying until the end of the year at least, but I sure would like an articulated screen on a FF.
… because I’d like to have such flexible display construction as available in the A77.
Especially for video this is great and also for shots from the hip. As long as Nikon and Canon don’t care about that, Sony will always be an option. If the Nikon D800 had such display, I would immediately order one. OK, may be 36 MP is also a little diadvantadge, but with this I could live…
I’ve been using Sony because it used to be Minolta. I chose Minolta, I stayed with the Minolta system, and the Minolta lenses are / were fantastic. The lens quality is my primary concern.
i really don´t care if the FF sony is better than canikon,or worse, or whatever.. who cares anyway..? just give us the tools and we will finish the job..
Not sure if anyone has thought of this but a 36MP A950 might just happen in February 2013 although I’d say it’s more likely it will be a 36MP SLT. Nikon announced the D800 in February this year with the 36MP Sony sensor and I’d bet that the exclusive first use agreement that they obviously have was for 1 year, nice round number, makes sense no?. Feb 2013….let’s see!
How much is the cost of NEX9 (FF) that you guys can accept?
I would said the articulated live view screen should be added to the poll. This is one of the most important reason for my to have chosen Sony.
I have seem Nikon/Canon users lie with their stomach on the floor to get a good angle to take photos. I have also seen photographers who just set the camera to wide anger and shot without looking through the view finder hoping that the photo will come up ok and then they can crop it later.