Back in February Olympus launched the Olympus E-M5 and marketing guys kept a mystery around the sensor manufacturer. When asked they always said “No comment“. Until Olympus manager Sasa confirmed that the 16 megapixel sensor is actually made by Sony (Source: DC.watch).
Now Panasonic launched the new GH3 (specs and price here). It has a 16 megapixel sensor and it looks like it is the same of the E-M5. When asked Panasonic managers keep answering “No comment” (Source: EosHD, Personal View and so on).
If our “speculation” is correct than after Nikon, Pentax, Ricoh, Casio, Olympus we also would have Panasonic using Sony sensors. That makes Sony close to a total sensor dictatorship. The only remaining bigger competitor would be Canon and Aptina (for some Nikon cameras).
One more thing. The new Leica M (pecs here) is using a 24 MP sensor which is not(!) made by Sony. it’s made by a small Belgium company named Cmosis. I think that’s great news…to have new kind of companies creating new competition. I am crossing the fingers for that small 42 people company. Good Luck!
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Sony preorder list:
A99 body Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, Jessops, Wex UK, Wex Germany, Sonystore DE–UK–FR–IT–ES–NL–SE–FI–CH and more links at Alphacameradeals.
A99 with kit lens links Alphacameradeals.
RX1 Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, Wex UK ,Wex Germany and more links at Alphacameradeals.
NEX-6 body Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, Wex UK, Wex Germany Sonystore DE–UK–FR–IT–ES–NL–SE–FI–CH and more links at Alphacameradeals.
NEX-6 with kit lens Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, Jessops, Wex Uk ,Wex Germany and more links at Alphacameradeals.
NEX-VG900 Amazon, BHphoto, Sonystore DE–UK–FR–IT–ES–NL–SE–FI–CH, Wex Uk and more links at Alphacameradeals.
NEX-VG30 Adorama, Amazon, BHphoto, Wex UK, Sonystore DE–UK–FR–IT–ES–NL–SE–FI–CH, and more links at Alphacameradeals.
Sony E-mount 16-50mm Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, Wex UK, Sonystore DE–UK–FR–IT–ES–NL–SE–FI–CH, and more links at Alphacameradeals .
Sony E-mount 35mm Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, Wex UK, Sonystore DE–UK–FR–IT–ES–NL–SE–FI–CH, and more links at Alphacameradeals.
Sony E-mount 10-18mm Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, Wex UK, Sonystore DE–UK–FR–IT–ES–NL–SE–FI–CH, and more links at Alphacameradeals.
Sony A-mount 300mm f/2.8 Amazon, BHphoto, Sonystore DE–UK–FR–IT–ES–NL–SE–FI–CH.
63 Responses
It looks like (from specs) this CMOSIS made sensor is about as good in DR but works much better with RF wides without sacrificing long lenses. The high ISO performance is unknown yet.
I meant compared with Sony EXMOR
You’re still alive?
Personally I’d love to see more alternative sensors like Foveon and Fuji’s. Innovation is needed to improve IQ. I hate it when they just increase Mpixels.
“Fuji” sensor is just custom CFA on top of the Sony’s old good 16Mp sensor.
Foveon — yes, that fuji crap — no.
you smoke bad grass, sony sensors cant even go near the iq of fujy… keep dreaming
Look at the pixel layout on Fuji sensor. It’s same as Sony’s sensor. It’s the same sensor but with custom CFA filter by Fuji
Yea, true, no Sony sensors comes close to the issues Fuji has.
Sony and Panasonic might have inked many deals recently especially in the wake of huge losses from their television business. The two companies agreed to collaborate on OLED. Not sure if that meant more than that.
That’s interesting … and would make a lot of sense.
Seen in isolation, it is quite a blow to Pana’s sensor manufacturing business if the company has to go to Sony to make a competitive flagship model.
Remember that AVCHD a video compression used by SONY and PANASONIC was developed by this two companies. So there is a tendency that PANA is using SONY sensor.
“What if….Panasonic is using a Sony sensor inside the GH3?”
It doesn’t matter. It’s still a tiny micro sensor
tiny? micro? smaller than APS-C, yes, but tiny nah…
tiny micro? sensor(OM-D) but against APS-C (NEX-7).
Use the iso comparison feature on the dpreview website of a OM-D and a d5100/d7000/nex i think you will be surprised!
I think we’ve established by now that Sony makes a lot of sensors in other companies’ cameras. I’m happy that Sony’s sensor division is getting the business. Beyond that it doesn’t really mean much of anything.
I don’t see any problem if Panasonic is using Sony’s or but I see other problems.
What were the conditions of the agreement and how much Panasonic had to sacrifice in order to get this sensor.
I mean, the GH3 needed some custom feats to work well together with what Panasonic wanted, wit Panasonic’s new Engine as weel, so as long as this sensor has those feats, it’s ok. Is the 240fps readout a sign of that? I hope so. But, still, it’s weird that Panasonic didn’t ask for the multi-aspect ratio sensor. Is that a sign that it’s just a modified version of the OM-D E-M5 sensor? I looks like that.
But if it’s really based on that sensor, how much were they able to customize for the GH3 needs? Was Panasonic able to have the sensor the way they wanted? Optimized for the video feats, optimized for the GH3 downscaling video codec, etc? Or did Panasonic engineers have to work around the sensor’s limitations?
I think that’s huge in this matter, how much sacrifice did Panasonic do in order to have a wider DR? It’s probably called LiveMOS because of the mods Panasonic asked, so it’s mixed designed sensor, like the “new low pass filter”.
The specs of the new Aptina 1″ sensor is pretty bold! 10MP@60fps and 1080p240! If the GH3 were able to do anything like that, ti would be a killer for any competition in this Hybrid market! With that amazing codec plus true slow-motion? (http://nikonrumors.com/2012/09/22/aptina-releases-new-1-inch-sensor-for-future-nikon-1-cameras.aspx/)
I don’t see any problem if Panasonic is using Sony’s or but I see other problems.
What were the conditions of the agreement and how much Panasonic had to sacrifice in order to get this sensor.
I mean, the GH3 needed some custom feats to work well together with what Panasonic wanted, wit Panasonic’s new Engine as weel, so as long as this sensor has those feats, it’s ok. Is the 240fps readout a sign of that? I hope so. But, still, it’s weird that Panasonic didn’t ask for the multi-aspect ratio sensor. Is that a sign that it’s just a modified version of the OM-D E-M5 sensor? I looks like that.
But if it’s really based on that sensor, how much were they able to customize for the GH3 needs? Was Panasonic able to have the sensor the way they wanted? Optimized for the video feats, optimized for the GH3 downscaling video codec, etc? Or did Panasonic engineers have to work around the sensor’s limitations?
I think that’s huge in this matter, how much sacrifice did Panasonic do in order to have a wider DR? It’s probably called LiveMOS because of the mods Panasonic asked, so it’s mixed designed sensor, like the “new low pass filter”.
The specs of the new Aptina 1″ sensor is pretty bold! 10MP@60fps and 1080p240! If the GH3 were able to do anything like that, ti would be a killer for any competition in this Hybrid market! With that amazing codec plus true slow-motion? (http://nikonrumors.com/2012/09/22/aptina-releases-new-1-inch-sensor-for-future-nikon-1-cameras.aspx/)
This is the Nikon 1′s sensor, with the Nikon proprietary PDAF and other technology removed, sold by Aptina for third parties.
The video specifications we already more or less knew about, Nikon admitted that the N1′ sensor can do 2k vide, after all. See here:
http://nikonrumors.com/2012/01/31/interview-with-nikon-on-the-future-of-the-nikon-1-system.aspx/
4K, but in this case it would be 4K@60fps, that’s not expected at all and fast fps was limited to smaller resolutions, to be capable of 1080p240 is also something new.
actually, Nikon1 has some interesting feats, the weird part is the smaller sensor and the fact that it didn’t make the camera so much smaller to justify that.
I just wish Sony could do a better job releasing lenses and by that I mean popular focal length fast primes!
As far as I see – popular focal length fast primes are already released for NEX.All that’s left are these less common.
An interesting read about CMOSIS sensor technology: http://www.cmosis.com/technology_main/technology
Two most interesting highlights:
(1) 90db S/N ratio, which translates to about a dynamic range of 15 eV.
(2) global shutter
That’s what CMOSIS claims anyway. Not sure if the new Leica has these features.
can you explain about global shutter,that equivalent to Instant shutter??
http://www.invisage.com/technology
Global shutter is simply electronic shutter. So camera can work without regular mechanical shutter. Usually it doesnt work with every shutter speed and it doesnt work well with fast ones.. Advantage is completely silent camera.
It seems that InVisage’s InstantShutter is a type of global shutter (at least based on their own description).
Both global shutter and rolling shutters are electronic shutters. The difference is that global shutter allows the exposure of the entire frame at the same time. The desire for a global shutter is primarily related to better video quality.
But global shutter has benefit to still image photography as well. To me personally, the biggest reason I want a camera to have global shutter is its potential for full shutter speed range flash sync. This is extremely important for fill flash photography.
The old CCD sensors had global shutters. The cheap low-end Nikon D50, for example, had full range sync. But with CMOS, it’s all limited to the mechanical shutter, which syncs up to 1/250sec for topline models, and much lower for other models.
I read about their products too, and 90dB SNR with Global Shutter look likes THE NEXT BIG THING.
Besides Canon, Sony and Aptina there are Nikon and Fuji designes. Although Fuji sensors are from Sony FAB they are designed by Fuji, Nikon ones are most likely from Renesas FAB.
So it’s far from Sony sensor dictatorship.
Nobody does it better than Sony!
Yeah,walkman failed ,PS is going lost,television or liquid display is disappear.
if the big micro(nano) electronic companies eye to image sensor chip they will
produce better than sony xmor 1000X time. nobody perfect.
Nice grammar. Try running your posts through a grammar check before posting. Nobody prefect!
WTF
What are you talking about? The Walkman was sold for than 20 years with a total of 200 million units sold!
canon will rock your head
Even if tweaked by Fuji, my eyes tell me that the sensor is made by Sony.
I’m not sure that Panasonic would used Sony sensors. However, some of the Apple’s Iphone 5 might be using Sony sensors.
http://www.t3.com/news/apple-iphone-5-camera
Remember that AVCHD a video compression used by SONY and PANASONIC was developed by this two companies. So there is a possibility that PANASONIC is using SONY sensor.
Either Sony make or don’t make sensor for other cameras… We will still be the last to get the sony camera that use Sony sensor… Look at d600, ppl are playing with that camera already…
Paranoid Keanu. 🙂
Nope its Panasonic sensor as in GX1. Similar but different. In some aspects better than OM-D (at least RAW is).
I seriously doubt this rumor. Panasonic might “develop” technology with Sony but I seriously doubt that they would lower their pride so much to actually “buy” the most important part in thier cameras. (Especially from a deep rival like Sony)
I doubt this.
then please, read the interviews, Sir. All the time, somebody ask directly if the Sensor is Sony, and they answer with “No Comments” it’s like saying, yes, it’s a Sony sensor but we don’t want to admit it. If Olympus for the OM-D went for the Sony sensor (the best for m43 right now) then I don’t see anything wrong with Panasonic going the same way for their best model.
There are other sensors companies besides Sony. I hope it is a Sony sensor. However, knowing how much pride there is between these guys, I seriously doubt they would give Sony that kind of satisfaction..LOL
Somebody will take this appart someday and we’ll find out sooner or later. I think it will be another company.
If it is a Sony? Than this is a major defeat for Panny. That would be a fact that would be used against Panny and shouted accross the floors at trade shows for years to come. Hahaha!!!
As skeptical as I am, I can’t even imagine how far Sony has reached in the sensor market.. Especially through SAR with the ‘this and that uses Sony sensor’..
Though what tells me is that even if Sony doesn’t make the best cameras – there’re a lot of non-Sony good cameras there based on Sony sensors.. So even if you don’t like Sony imaging products, you might still carry a Sony sensor with you..
For example.. iPhone 5..
P.S. Regarding ‘pride’ for not buying a competitor’s product, look at Apple. They stopped using their own processors and uses Intel instead. The cost-benefit ratio tilted. How much is ‘pride’ valued in the face of money? It definitely is a high value, but when the money value goes high enough, pride is replaced by profit.
enlighten me guys…how exactly can a former 4/3 camera use those lenses if she now uses an APS sensor ???? if the rumors are correct then panasonic would have told her customers of the new crop factor now wouldnt they ?
I was actually wondering about that – but this is not a NEX sensor or such. Possibly (dunno about Pana but for Olympus) it’s simply outsourcing. They give the layout and asks Sony to make it using their technology. It’s possible. Whose proprietary technology is it can still be debated.
Leica M’s sensor is not “made by CMOSIS”. It is designed by CMOSIS (a fabless company) and manufactured by STMicroelectronics.
who cares…
If the GH3 has a Sony sensor inside…. what is going to change in my life?
Monday i still will have to go to work!
Actually, I’d be surprised if anything posted here would ever change your or other’s life in any sugnificant way. So, why even make such comment?
Because many posters of this blog, seems like they live by this kind of stuff.
Then look at the amount of useless posts.
waste of time.
A lot of people post to relieve their stress at work~
what if sonuy is crap? sonuy is crap, go and buy canon!
Wat if your beloved sub aps-c 1.6x crop factor is. suckz? Go and buy anything that’s not canon!!
its not canon.. CYANON.. LoL
Contrary to what was proposed here my eyes still tell me that the sensors in the latest Olympus as well as in the GH3 are made by Panasonic. Not Sony.
The oly ceo has been quoted saying its sony hasn’t he?
As far as we can trust the translations, he said “made by Sony”, which is subtly different from “designed by Sony”. The former could well point to the fab only. But who cares? I guess if we carefully disassembled some cameras, we would be surprised how many components are shared between competitors. Just think of all the functionally crucial components invisible to the customer, like actuators for shutters or AF motors. As these become economically feasible only by the numbers, I would be surprised if the number of manufacturers would be in the same order of magnitude as camera brands. But nobody cares. Just for sensors, there seems to be a religious believe that these are the home of the soul of a camera (thus rendering a camera with a Sony sensor kind of a Sony camera). For me, the tangible user interface, including physical layout and software, and its behaviour, including AF speed, constitutes much more of the soul of a camera than the mere sensor.
Definitely Sony sensor. I own Sony cams and Panasonic and the GH3 has that “sony” look.
If Panasonic made the sensor they would of proudly announced it. But they didn’t. Which indicates its made by someone else.
I don’t blame them. Sony sensors produce great results for photos and DR is very good.
Even if it says “16MP Live MOS sensor” the word associated so far with the Panasonic sensors?
What if? Nothing! It doesn’t change anything.
As long as Sony keep raking in the revenues, they can spend more on R&D on revolutionary products.
What if the admin is stroking the flames of fanboys to promote ad revenues on his site? Seriously, when I buy a computer, it’s most likely has an intel CPU. I don’t feel the need to proclaim to the world that it has an intel CPU.
Honestly, what could have happened is Panasonic designed the sensor, licensed some Sony patents and sent it to Sony’s sensor fab to fab it if their own fabs can’t do a good enough job. That could be all there is to it.
So if the sensors in the new PENS and Panny m4/3, then there performance should be on par with the NEX. Add in superior lens options like the Pana-Leica 25mm and the NEX is beaten at it’s own game.