Image courtesy: Imaging Resource.
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The recent decision from Sony to drop the “NEX” brand dramatically increased the confusion on their camera and lens lineup. And apparently the recent mess on text and description at Sony EU sites supports this statement 🙂
That’s why Imaging Resource tried to get through the labyrinth created by Sony to explain how we should “understand” the new Sony strategy. IR does a good job explaining Sony’s plan but the problem is that the mass is likely not going to understand Sony’s marketing anyway 🙂
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That should have been written by Sony themselves.
The most entertaining I have read this week! Haha
It will be much clearer in the near future when they dump the a mount for good.
Creating an E-mount only alpha range would be a huge dissapointment to those of us that are heavily invested in the A-mount system. However, even though I cannot see Sony eradicating the A-mount (or at least I hope they won’t), I can somewhat see where your logic lies. The fact that Sony have considerably reduced their entry level A-mounts to just the a58 whilst they have released yet another NEX type entry level E-mount along with the a3000 (and theres another coming!) proves to me that they are trying to shift the base of their camera department to a mirror less system (with the E-mount) under the alpha name. So that in the near future we may have just an E-mount range with a couple of high end A-mounts floating about. I hope this dosnt happen.
The A-Mount isn’t going anywheres.
Mirror-less sales are receding because no one wants them. Mirror-less users are in the minority, and based on current sales figures their limited pool of users is shrinking.
They’re nothing more than upgraded point and shoot cameras, or that’s the average consumers’s perception of them. On the sales floor it’s easier to sell a D3300 or A58 than a NEX because consumers see the value in the DSLR.
The Anti A-Amount rhetoric are from those who are ill informed, and now realize that their platform has not been accepted by public. I just returned from a major event in Ottawa, and the only two types of cameras being used we’re smart phones and DSLRS. NO ONE WAS USING MIRROR-LESS cameras because they are already on their way out like the point and shoot cameras that came before them.
So if your do you self a favour and flush your NEX down the toilet where it belongs
The mirror-less camera fad is now over. Please take your useless NEX to the closest garbage receptacle.
The names wld be easy to understand if sony included 2 letters in eacj name
AC
AF
EC
EF
I will not explain what the letters mean…is ANYONE confused
Yes, and like Steve Jones said, even with style
For example with Full Frame E-Mount, are the style variations:
EFM = Middle EVF (Hump)
EFL = Left-sided EVF (NEX6/7)
EFN = None (NEX3/5)
EFS = D/SLR (ICLE-3000)
And the today know ILCE-A7 would be EFM7, and NEX-7 successor ECL7 🙂
You missed the point.
These letters are intended to SIMPLIFY the names
With your complicated naming system you are thinking too much like Sony.
It’s much, much simpler than that really though isn’t it? They’re just making it sound unnecessarily complex.
There are 2 different lens mounts – the old minolta A-mount for “traditional” DSLRs and DSLTs – and the E-Mount for mirrorless cameras. And, just like canon or nikon, you can get lenses that only cover an APSC sensor, or ones that cover a Full Frame sensor…
I agree. A mount, E mount, APS-C, full-frame. If you think this is confusing, you have bigger problems.
What is complex is that they keep changing the names and you end up with cameras in the same ‘line’ (mount + sensor size) having different naming conventions.
‘NEX’ line: A5000, NEX-7, …
‘FE’ line: A7, A7r
‘SLT’ line: A58, A77
‘SLT’ FF line: A99
‘NEX’ lenses: E XXmm
‘FE’ lenses: FE XXmm (ZA)
‘SLT APS-C’ lenses: XXmm DT
‘SLT FF’ lenses: XXmm
The lens names are pretty clear, but to be consistent, adding an A to the front of the lens name would make the distinction between E and A mount lenses easier. But having E-mount and A-mount lenses but only A-cameras (Alpha) is not really helpful. Nor is having Axxxx and NEX cameras side-by-side in their catalogue. And did I get this right that Axxxx will be the naming scheme for all new ‘NEX’ cameras? And is there a moniker that is shorter than ‘Sony mirrorless ILCs’? Along the lines of simply calling the something easy like ‘NEX’?
It was absolutely ridiculous for Sony to get rid of the NEX name. I am a Sony NEX 7 user considering the purchase of an A7 so Im not trolling her just to put Sony down. They have taken what any corporation considers the Holy Grail, that is to say a strong recognizable brand, and just thrown it away. For no reason. Idiots….
Their bullcrap reasoning of “Well the cameras were starting to be recognized as NEX instead of Alphas and blah blah, whine whine…” are you kidding me? YOU WANT THAT TYPE OF RECOGNITION SONY!
So what if the NEX name was more popular then the Alpha name? GO WITH IT! I never refer to my camera as an Alpha NEX 7, or Alpha 7 or anything with Alpha in it. Its just my NEX 7. Classy, short, recognizable. Now its replacement is going to be something like the ILCE-9000? Wow, thanks Sony. Now my camera sounds like the name of a CD player.
This is one of several reasons I am considering jumping to Fuji. Sony sees no difference between my NEX camera and a Blu Ray player. They are both just disposable consumer electronics to them. Fuji understands the camera is the tool chosen by an artist to create Art. The tool is something you can relate to and develop a bond with. The tool is pleasing to use, beautiful to look at and can help inspire you. The tool is something that will be kept and used for years, so updates to it are very much appreciated. Fuji recently released a firmware update for a camera that had been discontinued for 6 MONTHS. Go Fuji. Booo Sony.
This is just one of many misteps by Sony recently that is helping contribute to their junk status by Moodys.
To quote the Bard, “Whats in a name?” In this case, a lot.
And yes, I shoot Sony cameras. And there are a couple of shots in here from the new Fuji X-T1 🙂
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8539414@N07/
Perhaps making the NEX name disappear is to promote the convergence of A and E mount lenses, consistent with the rumored A-E dual mount camera.
Here is a good article about the Fuji firmware myth. It’s from a Nikon perspective but is the same scenario for all other mirrorless manufacturers. http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/how-myths-get-started.html
+1
+1
Say No to Beta-Firmwares!
+1
The latest firmware update for the X-Pro1 is still correcting issues with the viewfinder, for chrissakes. I don’t understand how Fuji can said to understand the “artistic needs” of photographers if their tools don’t even allow for reliable composition and focus.
You didn’t really explain how “Fuji understands the camera”. They have better naming for their bodies? That’s it?
Vlad, I tried to explain it without going into a ton of detail. Its just a personal opinion I have as a photographer and a gear user. You may not feel the same way.
Fuji understands that while a modern camera is indeed a consumer electronic item it is also much more then that. It is much more the tool of an artist. It has nothing to do with the naming of the camera (although Sony has jacked that up in an amateur way) but with many other aspects of their whole system of bodies and lenses.
Look at the design history of Fuji X cameras vs Sony A and E mounts. There is really no comparison. Sonys release strategy was all over the place, releasing new bodies every few months it seems with little or no REAL improvements. How many NEX 3’s are there? How many NEX 5’s? And the 6 is sorta better then the 7? And lets not look too closely at their lens strategy, or lack of it. That was a criticism of the NEX line for a LONG time, still is to some. Took forever for them to build up the lens line and some of their offerings left people scratching there heads. How many zooms do you need Sony before you come out with a decent set of basic, affordable primes?
A mount was the same with many cameras released with incremental upgrades an many times competing with their own brethren in e mount for a price vs performance category.
Now look at Fuji’s X system. They started with a fixed lens camera with the elegant styling of a classic rangefinder. Speaking of styling, the look of a camera does not REALLY matter…its the final image that matters. But anyone who doesnt understand that photography is a VISUAL art and that the inspiration to create can come from many sources (your tool included) is just fooling themselves. I have been creating what I believe to be some compelling images on my NEX 7 for about two years now. But the camera itself….feels like a calculator to me. One reason I use old lenses is because I like the way the feel when creating my Art. Many times they have inspired me. But the NEX itself has not much in it that inspires me in that manner. It is a tool, one that I bought because it would do the job I need it to do, but I would much prefer to DO THAT SAME JOB with a beautiful camera in the classic design if I have the choice.
Fuji gives me that choice.
Getting back to earlier, Fuji started with a fixed lens classic rangefinder style. Followed it up with the incredible X Pro 1. Then the XE1, and later the XE2 as a decent improvement. There were a couple of smaller cameras in there to help fill out the different markets but you basically have the X PRO and the XE. Now, with the XT1, you have a classic SLR style X body to choose from that in swoop is elegant, well made and pushing the bounds of what mirrorless has so far offered. All in all the strikes me as a very sensible system of cameras that Fuji has brought to market. And all the while they are using their revolutionary X trans sensor, making nice improvements along the way, and by keeping it at 16mp they have shown that they are not part of the whole MORE MEGAPICKLES!! marketing campaign.
And their lenses….wow, the lenses. Solid, beautiful primes brought to market fairly quickly. And they are pretty damn fast. And some of them have aperture rings (!) right on the lens. And they take beautiful images. The Fujinon lens lines put the E mount lens lines to shame. Plain and simple. And they did it in less time.
Again, these are my opinions. I neither expect nor require anyone else to share them. But my belief is that people at Fuji understand photographers better then the people at Sony. Its evident in the elegant design of their cameras, the strong lens line up and the support for their product.
Well, look at both of your comments and compare. The first didn’t explain anything, the second did 🙂
I do agree on some of your points, for example, the lenses. Fuji is certainly more consistent. For the most part though I disagree. As you say, opinions. I find my NEX quite inspiring and think that the Fujis are trying to bring back an interface, which, while somewhat appealing, I consider inefficient. Fuji is also releasing bodies with way too many quirks, though this is certainly mitigated by the constant fw updates. They also release plenty of cameras and if they had the money like Sony, I bet they would release more. Just look at the X-M1 and X-A1; what was the point there? And they did give up on the older interface for those.
I see them as yet another company with their pros and cons. I do admit though, I find their kaizen a bit pretentious. They do some things very right, mostly the lenses (I am still not sure if I like aperture rings though ) for me and a few other things. Yet Sony does too. I find their camera bodies to be the most interesting on the market and while struggling to fill up properly their lens lineup, there are some pretty good ones.
Looking at any brand, there are pros and cons. Still, it is interesting to see how people think 🙂
You sound like you are going to switch, I would be interested to know if metabones will change the mount on your speedbooster for a fee like sigma does with their lens.
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
The Fuji X system will, for me, be competing for my purchase $$$ with the upcoming Alpha release.
Fuji is way ahead right now, obviously, since there currently IS no new Alpha release–but also there are those fast lenses, nicely machined and detailed, and the sealing.
And above all, the apparent consistency. It will be interesting to see user reviews of the new Fuji body as it ages.
Well after reading your post and looking at your flickr account I can’t really find the ones taken with the Fuji. Anyway, I have a huge investment with my real A-Mount, ZA lenses, flash, and a ton of accessories.
Even so I’m seriously considering the new Fuji XT-1 as a travel cam, and I really have no immediate plans for another Sony camera. Heck, over Christmas, I dumped some serious bucks into my existing dinosaur A900 kit, and though I don’t regret my purchase(s), I have no plans to buy another ‘flavor of the year’ camera offering by Sony.
Sorry you didnt find them Dan. They were some of the first in my stream.
iso 6400
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8539414@N07/12230631025/
and an iso 1600 shot of my uninspiring NEX 7 🙂
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8539414@N07/12230628815/
So you want to switch to FUJI X-T1 because the name is so much more recognizable.
I actually agree it was foolish and confusing to change a naming system that people could understand and recognize.
What I dont understand is how the competition is doing any better.
Do you think Sony might realize you are punishing them for the name change and change it back ?
No Barry, I dont want to switch to the Fuji because I think the name is more recognizable. I am considering a switch to Fuji because they make cameras that can produce the images I want the way I want to produce them (which my NEX also does) but they do so in a much more classic, elegant package that I would enjoy using more while not wasting time dorking about with stupid issues like the name game.
The whole name thing is indicative of a corporate culture at Sony that I explained above in the response to Vlad. Sony sees a camera the same way they see a Blu Ray player…as a consumer electronic item you sell as a disposable unit to be replaced down the road by something ‘better’.
Fuji understands it is putting a tool in the hands of an artist.
Those are two very different corporate philosophies and I cant explain it more then that.
Don’t let the name stop you from getting a A7. I love mine but the name change is, lets just say misguided because from what I see sony’s japan and U.S divisions don’t see eye to eye. This is one of the reasons the flash overheating problem is still a problem. I do videos for my friends youtube channel and all of a sudden all the girls are getting sony nex cameras and ditching there canon dslr. Monkey see monkey do,now even more girls are looking at sony only now it is not called nex anymore??? I really like sony but they love to shoot themselves in the foot.
I am amazed (especially since Dp Review of A7), how low self confidence and pride have NEX/Alpha users.
Whinging and moaning about naming, awkward place of C2 button,lack of lenses for a few month’s old system.. blah,blah blah
The truth is that Sony is the most innovative camera company of the camera worls, made breakthrough FF camera like nobody had guts and resources to do!
In the Oly and especially Fuji cameras they are competing to show how awesome tools are their cameras…
Why is that? I thinks Sony shooters are the younger ones, some new to photography,came from a different brand ..etc
CAll me a fanboy, but I have a trust in sony cameras, after using OlyE620,EP1,EM5,G3, NEX6 and now A7.
p.s I think after the announcement of NEX6/7 successor the APS-C shooters will be drooling and things will get just better and better…
C2 button position sucks. Otherwise I agree everything is great!
The article makes something simple sound confusing.
Maybe sony should have just call FF e-mount (Nex Alpha) apsc (Nex) and Alpha A-mount as normal. That to me would have been better.
…or they could have just moved on to Beta – β – for the mirrorless line, after all there are another 20-30 more letters in the greek alphabet.
Beta would imply that Sony uses customers as guinea pigs. Hang on a second…
Symbols can have more than one meaning. While Beta is usually an rough unpolished piece of software.. its also just the 2nd letter in the Alphabet.
Just like Nex is Sonys 2nd mount system.
Some might make fun of such a name in the beginning.. but I think it would stick after a while.
Sony Omega would have sounded quite cool in my opinion. Has a nice symbol Ω, and the whole marketing game available with “Sony Alpha & Omega” :).
That could work
I think Sony should eliminate the APS-C offerings for both the E-Mount, and A-Mount, as quickly as possible. Sony should be the first camera company to launch a FF interchangeable lens camera for under $999.99.
Both the A77, and NEX 7 replacements should really be Full Frame offerings.
The elimination of APS-C for both the A-Mount, and E-Mount would allow them to streamline their lens line-up, and increase adoption for both mounts.
I could live with that. They would need some cheap FF lens like there easy choice for A-mount. I would love a nex-3n w a FF sensor w hot shoe and a dial or two.
Sony has only two mounts , A & E so now we have knuckle heads playing silly games with them . The Canon EF mount is the same on the FF 5D and APS-C 7D just like the Sony A mount on the FF A99 and APS-C A77 or Sony E mount on the FF A7 and APS-C NEX-6.
Sony should capitalize on that disadvantage. A Full Frame A59, or A79 might give Sony a distinct advantage over its competitions offerings. A FF NEX 5000 or 7000 would give Sony a leg-up in the emerging mirror-less market.
For a beginning: let’s stop using “emerging” in a context of mirrorless. They are slowly fading away – at least in terms of sales. Nothing is “emerging”. Mirrorless emerged around 2010. Now their time is slowly fading.
I really think Sony should pursue a Full Frame strategy, as its primary objective. Their goal for 2014 should be delivering a Full Frame DSLR (SLT) (A or E Mount) for under $1000.00. An A-Mount delivered for that price point would easily initiate an upgrade cycle for A-Mount users.
Your right about the mirror-less market receding at a faster rate than DSLR. It doesn’t make sense at all. You’d think that people would buy into the new tech, but they aren’t. People still prefer the DSLR form factor over the smaller mirror-less. so Sony maybe is chasing its tail on this one.
Its the same scenario in most industries where newer, and better doesn’t always generate sales.
In under 10 years, cameras with mirrors will be niche and mirrorless the standard. The transition, although not as dramatic, will be akin to film-to-digital. This time around it is a trickle up transition. Most photos taken today are with mirror less cameras (mobile phones, etc). The advances are now trickling up to enthusiast and professional cameras.
Flipping mirror tech has peaked, with perhaps the Canon 1d-x at the pinnacle of what can be done with a flipping mirror. As sensors and EVFs continue to advance, the mirror will increasingly become unnecessary.
Its the Form Factor not the technology inside of it that people are buying into. Most people don’t care about flippin mirrors. They want something that takes excellent photos, that looks, and preforms like professional camera should, which is where most mirror-less cameras fall short.
Should the mirror-less industry overcome the performance gap in the near future they may make inroads. Its likely those future cameras will look like more like the DSLR form factor, and less like NEX.
“If it looks like a DSLR, focuses like a DSLR and is stabilized like a DSLR, it’s a DSLR”
The maturing of mirror-less technology is only just beginning. So the idea that the mirror-less market is dying is rather premature…The idea that the form factor of a DSLR some how oozes real ‘cameraness’ (yes I know it’s not a real word) is akin to saying 60 years ago that a Large format camera is for more professional than 35mm camera…DSLR’s are fast becoming an anachronism simply by the virtue of technological progression. Mirrored cameras are at the pinnacle of technological possibilities… Mirror-less is at the start of their potential….”That Mr Anderson is the sound of inevitability”
For many years I also thought mirror-less cameras where toys… I have know have gone to the A7…Now if I shoot with an optical view finder it feels like I am using out of date equipment…
@GAV we’re all happy you bought a new camera/squeaker toy.
However the mirror-less segment is receding, at a faster rate than the DSLR. Google it.
Mirror-less Achilles is backwards compatibility. Nice cameras but I’m not willing to drop 10K or more to buy the lenses I need. Plus if you already own an A850 or better why would you even bother.
So most photographers who are already invested in a platform aren’t willing to make the jump to mirror-less unless it supports the lens mount they already own. Only a small percentage of photographers are.
So we (The majority of A-Mount users) are just waiting for the 54mp mirror-less A-Mounts (2015/16) that gives us all of the advantages of the A7r without incurring the costs of buying an additional 10K worth of lenses.
Until then most of us are happy with our A77/A850/A99 cameras, and collection of Zeiss and G-Series lenses
Well, Sony also supports a number of mounts on the video division. The 4k Sony alpha prototype featured at nab 2013 featured an FZ mount with an a-mount adapter & 24-70. The FZ mount is the sony mount featured on the f5 & f55 cameras and is highly adaptable .
Sony did the right thing with their mounts, moving from SLR/SLT to mirrorless REQUIRES a new mount if you want to benefit from dropping of the mirror box. At least they have one mount for each type (E for SLT and A for mirrorless).
Canon and Nikon got slightly tricked into quickly following Sony to come up with new mounts for mirrorless, respectively EF-M for Canon, and 1-mount for Nikon but both seem too narrow to fit anything larger than APCS :). If they ever make FF mirrorless cameras they will have to add third mounts to their systems.
Probalby Sony deliberately made the E-mount just as wide to fit a FF sensor so that this wouldn’t give away their plans having too much space around the APSC sensor at the time of the first NEX bodies.
What still looks somewhat messy to me is the model naming system that Sony are using:
A# – full frame mirorrless (A7, A7r)
A## – APSC & FF SLT cameras
A### – used previously for APCS & FF SLRs
A### – APCS mirorrless cameras (A3000, A5000)
RX# – FF compact (RX1, RX1r)
RX## – 1″ compact with large zoom
RX### – 1″ compacts (RX100, RX100 MII)
P.S. I always hoped RX## range is for APSC compacts!!!)
The RX1.5 will be APS-C.
“The fun continues with the newest Sony full-frame models, the Alpha ILCE-7 and ILCE-7R, which sport the same E-mount as used on the former NEX line, but now require the new “FE” lenses to provide full-frame image coverage. When E-mount lenses are attached to FE-capable cameras, a similar situation occurs as in the A-mount scenario mentioned above, in that you’ll experience vignetting in the image unless you instruct the camera to crop its images to match the smaller image circle. The setting is called “APS-C size capture”, and can be set to on, off and auto.”
He must have taken a stupid pill. The Samyang full frame E mount lenses do not vignette on full frame E mount cameras (Vg900, A7,A7r). The E mount and FE mount is the same exact mount like the EF Canon mount for FF Canon 5D and APS-C 7D.
The mounts are the same but the size of the sensor is not the same for every camera that uses the mount.
With APSC you get like a sort of crop that cuts off the edges of the image compared to fullframe and so voila! Less vignetting.
So when you mount a lens designed for APSC and not fullframe on a fullframe camera you will get more vignetting than usual.
It depends on the lens how much it will vignette,but putting a lens designed for APSC on a camera with fullframe does not usually give as good results as using a lens designed for fullformat.
Which is why they would recommend using FE-mount lenses since they are designed for fullframe and not E-mount lenses that are designed for APSC.
The question is not if you could mount an E-mount lens designed for APSC on a fullframe camera but if you would want to.
Now,in summary: lenses for APSC will vignette more on fullformat and lenses for fullformat will vignette less on APSC.
So a FE-mount lens mounted on a fullframe camera will likely vignette less than an E-mount lens would if it was mounted on a fullframe camera.
Given that they are similar focal lengths of course.
That is what they are trying to say.
I agree that dropping the NEX name for Alpha is not helping customers –
they could have created some other name if they thought NEX was getting a bad rep –
Olympus and Fuji and Panasonic like to use the same menu system from their low end to their high end – what a novel concept – not having their customers have to learn a totally new menu system –
Sony NO – like NEX menu system vs RX, RX10, RX100 Alpha99 etc – why???
I think Fuji particularly are gaining on Sony in sales in the APS-C system cameras –
more lenses, firmware updates etc. etc.
I still think that Olympus and Panasonic have the best controls and menu systems and features – Fuji typically lacks in features but has a real good IQ – and good looks
I also agree on the naming convention – what a mess RX100/m2 a small compact camera and RX1/r FF and very costly –
Kind a reminds me of the NEX menu system – one always has to try to guess where things are
Was that article meant to be a spoof? It just succeeded in making something simple sound complex. There are only two mounts, not four. You simply have two classes of lenses for each – those where the image circle covers a 35mm “full frame” and those for cropped format.
Of course the model numbering could do with cleaning up so it clearly shows the mount, the frame coverage and, possibly the “style”, but the underlying principles are simple enough.
it’s correct to show 4 mounts, because you can use 4 kinds of lenses on it. APS-C or FF E-mount lenses and APS-C or FF A-mount lenses.
actually they show only two different Mounts, admin. Each with two sensor dimensions.
+1
+1000
Ever since going digital, most mounts have supported both APS-C and Fullframe lenses.
And it’s often confusing which lenses are which, with different code letters and 3rd party manufacturers not matching those codes, but having there own.
Nikon make it even more confusing, because the bodies dictate the features available for older lenses, affecting whether the autofocus will work, as well as autoexposure.
It’s always been a minefield.
I think Sony were trying to make it less confusing and more consistent.
I also think they failed.
(and it doesn’t help that their web sites are often still using the old nomenclature)
I hope it clears up when the old brands are gone. Maybe they use the digits to seperate the mounts. Or there’s something else coming up.
However, I don’t understand why they abandoned the NEX brand. In my opinion, it had a very good reputation, maybe even better than Alpha. And it would have made the life of their customers much easier.
I bet, it is all about accessability. Some odd marketing guys said, different mounts are to technical. They had confusion with APS-C SLTs, FF SLTs, entry-level NEX and FF NEX’ that can keep on with FF SLT, and NEX’ that look like SLT. We only seperate by customer level (entry, mid, enthusiast) and they’re all pro – hence Alpha. Yeah, well, but the customer has to get technical when buying a interchangable lens camera. Because it’s not 1, 2, 3. The only way out of this is to drop one lens mount entirely. And if they get IS on E-Mount, they’ll drop A mount – maybe, I guess … Or the guy who came up with this naming crap get’s fired and we get our old, beloved Cybershot, NEX and Alpha brands back. That made at least sense to me.
Sony got the best engineers but the marketing department is really lousy!
The naming is bad and confusing specially for new customers.
For the consumer it’s still easy enough. You either like bigger cameras (SLT/ A-mount) or smaller cameras (mirrorless/ E-mount). Then you have an option for fullframe at a premium experience.
Canikon only have long-flange mounts with their DLSRs and Oly, Panasonic, Fuji only have short-flange mounts and no fullframe options.
So the current ‘confusion’ is a consequence of Sony’s ability to successfully compete in multiple markets.
Part of the confusion is because people tend to associate the A letter from A-Mount with the greek letter Alpha.
So, to be clear, A-Mount _doesn’t_ mean ALPHA-Mount.
A-mount was called “Alpha” mount for ages – even during Minolta times (I have a film Alpha 7 – from Minolta. The true Alpha 7). So there is no confusion – A-mount was always Alpha mount.
You are mistaken, this is incorrect information. The mount was never called Alpha mount.
Minolta (and later Konica Minolta) used the Dynax (Europe), Maxxum (America) and Alpha (Asia) brandnames for camera bodies. The mount itself was always just called A mount.
Confusion continues, even on this site, because people use A where they should be using α, so people think of the Latin letter A when the Greek letter Alpha is intended, and vice versa.
As much as I like my Sony gear I do recognize that at times, Sony is its own worst enemy. From their pathetic SonyStyle website to their total lack of customer service, it’s often times difficult to defend Sony as a viable alternative. I’ve stopped wondering why or how a company can seemingly go so far out of their way to embarrass themselves.
the first mistake (of a long list) was to drop the OVF, for wildelife this was just a nogo!
The New Sites on international do a very good job.. too many people look at the US site only and forget.. there is a world to the right of NY and Left of LA 🙂
The UK site for English speakers gives a good idea of how Sony will deal with this.
Lenses page from top link on main Sony camera Page:
http://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/lenses
If you can’t figure this out.. imagine what ISO, F-Stop EV, DOF, AF-C AF-S will do to you…
Some of the complaints assume that people only get stupid when buying but then will get smarter… Mount type is easy compared to all the variables people getting into photography past the Smartphone will have to deal with.
The only reason I can guess for why Sony wants to confuse the two lines of cameras (A-mount and E-mount) is that Sony eventually wants to discontinue the A-mount but, they want to do it in a slow, quiet and non-intrusive way so the users wouldn’t feel an abrupt siege. Otherwise, I find Sony managers are still totally off in speculating why the market isn’t responding adequately fast to their camera products as they wish.
Why is it that Nikon customers have no problem with the multiple mounts concept? Also Canon? Canon is probably the better example. They have EF-S, EF and EF-M. EF-S can’t be used on EF cameras, but EF can be used on EF-S cameras. And EF-M isn’t compatible with any unless you use an adapter that makes it an EF-S camera. In the case of Nikon, all lenses are called “Nikkor” regardless of mount.
Customers seem to be handling these situations just fine (though how many customers there are for the smaller mounts is debatable).
In fact, I’m convinced people around here are the only ones who are confused due to having known of the old branding. A new customer can be easily edified “Sony’s alpha camera line has two different classes of lenses (A and E) and two sensor sizes (APS-C and Full-frame) and not all lenses are compatible with all cameras.” Ta-da. Now they know what to be concerned about when choosing a camera and lens.
Personally, as someone who participates in a Sony Alpha photographers group where people spend most of their time talking about photography instead of gear, I see the confused between DT and non-DT alpha lenses all the time. It’s easily remedied. So is E versus A and FE versus E.
Except “ILCE” are also marketed as “A” !?! A7, A5000… Go figure !
It’s my understanding that ‘ILCE’ is a ‘product code’, not a ‘product name’. For example, the camera is called the Sony α7, but this camera has a product code Sony ILCE-7 (kind of like Leica M vs Leica M 240).
Unfortunately it’s not the case
See this article with Mark Weir, senior technology manager at Sony Digital Imaging in which he specifically says that the mirrorless cameras should be called ‘ILCE’ now instead of ‘NEX’:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2014/01/10/whither-nex-what-does-the-end-of-the-nex-moniker-mean-for-e-mount-fans
Quote: “We wanted to be sure that everyone recognized that E-mount cameras are very much Alpha-brand cameras, not NEX-brand cameras. So I think the primary motivation here is the unification of all of our interchaangeable-lens cameras — whether they are E-mount or A-mount — and a recognition that they’re all Alpha models.
That’s really our primary objective, because what we saw happen was a model name prefix somehow grew to become the brand. So what we’ve done since the introduction of the Sony A3000 last spring is to change the model name prefix. The brand is still Sony Alpha, but the model name prefix has been changed from NEX to ILCE, meaning ‘interchangeable-lens camera, E-mount.”
I don’t think the quotes from the Sony manager in that link really contradict what I said. For example, he says, “The next E-mount models that were introduced were the Alpha 7 and the Alpha 7R, and their model names are ILCE-7 and ILCE-7R, respectively.” What he calls “models” and “model names”, I would call “products” and “product codes”.
ILCE means Interchangeable Lens Camera E Mount
ILCA means Interchangeable Lens Camera A Mount
Following the ILC naming convention, current A mount cameras is ILCA-A99, ILCA-A77 while E mount would be ILCE-A7, ILCE-A7r, ILCE-A5000, ILCE-A3000.
Honestly, I’m quite curious who suggested to name it such way. And Sony just makes it confusing even more with the introduction of DSLR shaped ILCEs
Am I the only one who is noticing that in their “Body Compatibility” chart, they claim that “E-mount” lenses are compatible with “Full-frame A-mount w/cropping (no adapter)” bodies.
I really don’t think this is the case in reality. It’s pathetic how an article which is supposed to clarify things gets something as basic as this wrong.
No E-mount lens can work with an A-mount body – it’s as simple as that. Not discussing the use of adapters here, of course.
Why not? What is the E-Mount camera missing or how is the E-Mount lens different from the A-Mount DT lens? To my understanding, the mount is the same, or am I missing something?
You are entirely mistaken. The A-mount and E-mount are different sizes.
The two systems are designed for different flange focal distances.
If the flange focal distance (ffd) of a certain lens (such as an A-mount lens) is longer than the ffd of a camera (like E-mount cameras), you can use an adapter to connect the two. If the ffd of a certain lens (such as E-mount lenses) is shorter than the ffd of a certain camera (such as A-mount cameras) then the two are incompatible regardless of physical mount
I can understand it but I’m still confused.
Why A3000 and A5000 don’t look anything like each other?
Why Nex-3 series replaced by A5000 series and not A3000?
That means Nex-5,6,7 would need a bump in model numbers as well.
The issue right now is how do you differentiate DSLR shaped E-mount vs NEX E-mount cause previously the general idea of wanting a small camera that packs a DSLR punch would be E mount, but then Sony releases an E-Mount A3000 which looks like a DSLR, and then there’s the A5000 which looks like the regular NEX cameras we know.
Regarding mounts and lenses and I don’t see how it’s confusing as it’s the same for Canon/Nikon
Sony
FE lens = 35mm Full Frame lens
E lens = APSC lens
Mounted on:
35mm E mount sensor = FE + E (auto cropped or vignette)
APSC E mount sensor = FE (x1.5 of focal length) + E
—
Nikon
FX lens = 35mm Full Frame lens
DX lens = APSC lens
Mounted on:
35mm F mount sensor = FX + DX (auto cropped or vignette)
APSC F mount sensor = FX (x1.5 of focal length) + DX
—
Canon
EF lens = 35mm Full Frame lens
EF-S lens = APSC lens
Mounted on:
EF mount sensor = EF + not compatible with EF-S
EF-S mount sensor = EF (x1.6 of focal length) + EF-S
Sony marketing people, imho, are idiots. So many energy they put to get photographers confused. One mount would let engineers to create more lenses and more sublime strong and clear line of cameras. Now it’s like a gypsy market in Shanghai. Stupid naming scheme doesn’t help as well.
Also, NEX was a perfect name. Nobody cares for bland and hardly memorable Alpha bs. But everybody loved NEX. And these morons killed milking cow with their own crooked minds. Idiots? Yes, they are!
Also there should be one Sony a7 camera not a7 and a7a. WTF? Sony marketing department is playing it’s game like a teenager on drugs with rich parents and no control whatsoever. Eventually, every photographer, who was considering Sony, will go with another brand with clearer and professionally created line of products. Sony has great engineers but so far other departments are very weak.
I’m guessing you’re referring to the A7 and A7r instead of A7a?
the r is fine as Sony means it’ll be the higher resolution body. No one has problem with Nikon D800 and D800e or the Nikon D3 and D3x
Easy to understand but sony’s new nex camera names are seriously flawed. Dumb, dumb, dumb. A5000 I don’t even know what thats suppose to be the succesor of. Confusing. Although, I do believe they did well to ditch the NEX name….. but should have called it t Eta or Epta. You know, greek letter for e or whatever.
ETA e- mount Mirrorless
ALPHA a-mount SLT
Works for me. Actually, I kinda like the sound of those. Personal opinion ofcourse. Solves the cluster you know what they created with the stupis nex monikor. To bad they traded one bruised eye for another.
One other thing. For the love of God stop calling a-mount the “old” mount. Cameras and lenses get old, not the freaking mount. DSLR shape is just as much an ADVANTAGE as much as mirrorless fanboys refuse to admit. The shape and size isn’t going away because its still a highly fuctional design. And they are getting lighter as of late as well.
I really don’t understand what’s the fucking problem, really.
If a buyer/seller know what he/she’s talking about there is no problem.
Old models are replaced by new ones: old models numbers and branding (NEX) must be forgotten.
They belong to the past.
For those willing to buy the very first camera, an Alpha will be an Alpha with 2 different mounts and sensor sizes.
I’m really surprise by the whining about this.
Pointless article.
The picture makes everything clear:
4 screws = E-mount
6 screws = A-mount!
🙂
Emount = two less screws to hold the mount aligned to the body.
Flex much?
Considering the lens that is supposed to be mounted on it will be lighter then DSLR, the less screw is of no issue. All of this just makes it obvious that Sony knows that mirrorless will not be able to fully replace the function of DSLRs, Sony A mount users should be assured.
why don’t keep the old system? Because they were getting out of options for a proper numbering sequence. They got themselves in a bad situation with the NEX-5N. Why not use NEX-5C instead of N? Because they used that designation for China.. Then They got a NEX-C3 as a succesor for the NEX-3, and a more reasonable designation with the F3, but then they jumped several letters with the NEX-3N. They just shoot on the foot themselves.
Canon got their numbering sequence right (only with the High-end models) instead of doing a Canon 5D and then 6D. they decided to use Mark numbers. That way they can get a track of legacy for a certain level of product.
The old numbering sequence was just about right if they didn’t keep jumping several letters. NEX-5 series could have used (for example) C, F, G, N, R, S, T, U, V, W, X and Z. But nope, they used N, R and T only. And with the 3-series, C, F and N only. They had 11 years worth of numbering sequency, but decided to mess things up earlier.
Talked to a Sony guy about why they made name changes and skiped NEX? They want todays A-mount photographers to start buying E-mount cameraswhen upgrading/complementing. A7 and new A7000 for using their old glas (especially tele lenses) . Naming everything A and Alpha was logical?
New cameras will have E-mount only and a new much better A-adapter that integrates better with bodies. Some bodies will be bigger in size than A7-line but all having E-mount as native.
Its nice to know some random Sony sales guy figured it all out. Nope….he didn’t. Total speculation and I’ll wait to here its from the horses mouth. It makes more sense to say the want e-mount users to start upgrading to a-mount as the more professional and all around more versatile line.
One thing we should have learned by now is that even people within Sony, at least those outside of the “inner clique” in Japan, are speculating when they talk about future Sony plans more than a month or so away as much as we are.
FE-Mount looks so damn cool – I only wish they’ll skip that orange ring for even more decent understatement…
There’s no FE-Mount! Don’t spread misinformation! 🙂
By the wayI find the Orange Ring Sexy 😉
The mount system is really not that confusing…I don’t know what people are complaining about…It’s not rocket science!!
This article illustrates the foolishness of the new naming system.
It uhh s so complex that consumers cannot tell from the names what is compatable with what. They must seek a refferrence source in order to make sure.
Because of the compexity even those who do understand the names will continually get confused and make errors.
In this case the author states incorrectly that an E mount lens is incompatable with a mount cameras.
For many people selecting a sony system with compatable componens will be virtually impossible without having to return incorrect purchase.
The camera names give absolutely no hint about what the camera is.
Making the process of purchasing a first camera so complicated as to insure failure on the part of first time sony buyers.
New buyers will therefore seek canon or nikin because the people who sell the cameras understand these brands better and can simplify the purchasing process.
Again I will say the type of mount and format should be part of the product name for all cameras and lenses
AF
AC
EF
EC
THEN THEY CAN NAME THE CAMERA ANYTHING WITHOUT CONFUSING EVERYONE.
If sony wont do that than every product should include a free secret decoder spy ring to decode the product names.
What a total mess!
Sony have badly mismanaged things over the last few months, with the A5000 pre-launch price drop and the absurd situation with ‘steadyshot on all E-mount cameras’ appearing on the official website (along with drawings!) showing the chaos and incompetence currently rampent in their consumer imaging division
Sony need to recognise that they have exisiting customers not just potential A7/r buyers using Canon and Nikon… they need to start talking to their existing users, and more importantly listening to the responses!
That is not part of the sony philosophy.
Sony hires very competent executives and engineers therefore the the input of consumers like us is valueless.
Sony produces a premium product better than anyone elses.
Therefore the actions of insignifficant competitors like Samsung is not worth paying attention to.
😀
But be careful, I’m not sure that everybody gets irony 😉
If I was a Sony engineer or product-side employee – and hand off these pretty amazing cameras to the complete clowns in sales (distributors HATE Sony) and marketing – I would be hella’ pissed!
Genetic testing equipment product lines are easier to understand than they’ve made the Alpha line(s).
I agree that dropping the NEX name is a mistake by Sony. To the degree they bothered to do any marketing in America, they built the NEX brand. Sony Alphas are practically unknown here at mass merchandisers. Best Buy sells the a3000 and I noticed yesterday Target picked it up as well. No a-mounts. Best Buy also sells a limited line of NEXs.
But maybe that’s Sony’s strategy here. Mass market e-mounts to noobs at brick and mortar mass merchandisers and a-mounts more serious photographers will only learn about at photo specialty shops or through online research and mail order.
If the distribution is kept separate there’s less chance for confusion.
For the umpteenth time, compact e-mounts fans with an almost irrational zealotry to kill off the a-mount have to realize the ergonomics of a DSLR are much preferred by many over tiny compacts. I’m unlikely to ever buy a NEX styled camera because they’re uncomfortable and awkward to use.
I toyed around yesterday with an a3000. Forgetting quality/feature issues, its more comfortable than any APS-C NEX. Still, its handling rises merely to mediocre because it’s still too small to get a decent grip. I have average size hands for a guy.
I don’t care of a camera has a mirror or not if it performs.
This part of SAR started with a smile when reading Imaging Resources but after thinking about is and reading you all…
Do I dare to go on investing in Sony? I’m about to cash my preordered FE24-70 and that is 1.200 Euro with taxes here.
Will Sony kill their camera business? I’m not sure anymore. If Canon had an A7r…
They are a healthy #3 with a substantial base of business. I wouldn’t worry about their future – we simply like to chat and complain about it.
If you feel the Sony lens and camera lineup and system is most appealing to you – please pull the trigger. You’ll really enjoy using the cameras – I can assure you of this.
Just imagine how screwed up this will be when they release a hybrid. Sony makes amazing products but they need to strategicalky align their products better. Their also to stupid to admit they screwed up and just bring the nex name back.