Something personal first:
Every time I post a “bigger than usual” rumor I confess that I do hit the “Publish” button with quite a mixed feeling. On one side it’s nice after a long work of digging and searching to share a news to you folk. On the other side there is certain anxiety caused by many factors. First it’s hard for me to use right words because and right arguments in a non native language. I hope you are always aware of that. I often see that your “perception” of a rumor often differs a bit (or a lot) depending on what kind of words I used or not. So I am going to be very careful within that post 🙂 Than of course the biggest anxiety is that a rumor turns out to be wrong. I have been mostly right on SR5 rumors I posted in the past but I know well that all my long work will get messed up if I do one very big mistake only. And the day may come this will happen. I know for certain that there are different “elements” that have interest to spread wrong rumors. There are many reasons to do that (and I may explain them in detail in a future post). And that’s why the biggest work I do on SAR is not the writing of the article, but the long an patient work of waiting and searching and again waiting and trying to find out more from different sources.
Technical aspects of the “E-mount FF”
After posting the E-mount FF rumor sceptical argued that 1) an FF sensor wouldn’t fit within the current E-mount 2) FF E-mount lenses would be almost impossible to make. I am glad that David Kilpatrick wrote that article on Photoclubalpha (Click here). It’s a very technical summary that clearly explains you that “it is possible“. And Sony itself (read Toru Kotsumotu at DC.watch) said that the NEX mount has been designed with Full Frame sensor in mind. Again, thanks to David for your very well written article!
The Sony strategy around the “E-mount FF”
I will sum up in very short what I heard from trusted sources:
1) There will be soon a Sony official news related to the E-mount FF. Actually from what I heard it looks like Sony “anticipated” and pushed the E-mount FF development.
2) At least the first E-mount FF camera is not something interesting for 98% of our readers. They will be Camcorders. To make it even more clear. No NEX-7 alike E-mount FF camera is coming right now. But I have been told it is “on schedule”. And there are different prototypes, some with E-mount FF and some with A mount FF. I will have more info about that within that week!
3) For now Sony decided to NOT introduce any E-mount FF lenses. The initial strategy is to use current Alpha mount lenses via a “special adapter” and other Full Frame lenses (read Leica and so on) via adapter. It is my personal understanding that current E-mount lenses are NOT designed for FF. But current E-mount lenses will work in crop mode on future E-Mount FF cameras.
4) There is no info yet if Sony will ever design FF E-mount lenses for that system. My very personal suggestion for Sony on that point is….Do it!!!
Why I do believe the “E-mount FF” could be a (too slow) revolution.
The Canon/Nikon domination in the Full Frame world is almost absolute. It is my believe that one way to become competitive is to offer something completely new like it would be by launching a Full Frame mirrorless system. Now I believe to know through my sources that Sony is going to do that…but my fear is that they will do it too slowly. It would have been nice to have E-Mount FF lenses right from the start (but again they will not!). The risk is they will still “give” Nikon and Canon the chance to catch up after some time. The current limited NEX lens range is an example of how Sony should NOT act. The cameras are extremely popular but the camera owners can’t buy the right lenses for it. Sony missed the chance to expand considerably their market share explosively and they misses some “easy” earnings too.
So like it was with the SLT and NEX (APS-C) introduction Sony will again “start a new revolution” but with the risk that they will be “too slow in fulfilling it“. Let’s hope they will listen to the voice of the real customers…you!
Big hug,
Andrea (the Admin)
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P.S: Thanks to all the donators for covering my server upgrade costs. I now removed the donation button I posted on Friday. Thanks again!
90 Responses
Andrea, please rest assured that MOST of your readers appreciate your work here and would never be able to do it ourselves. SAR has become the DEFINITIVE resource for upcoming Sony Alpha and related camera products, a fact that’s been recognized by the dozens of blogs and other websites that reference it. What you’ve built here is awesome, and the fact that you do it all in a non-native language is even more amazing.
Thank you for all your hard work here. The rumors may not always be what people want to hear, and in some cases people aren’t interested in one product versus another, but the fact is that we’re all very privileged to have this source of information.
Oh, and BTW: FIRST! Someone had to do it, right? 🙂
+1. I totally agree, this is an excellent site.
+2, I definitely agree. I appreciate the time and effort you put into this site.
+3 Keep up the good work Andrea! Many us us simply do not speak unless we have something positive to say. Don’t let the constant negitive posters detour you from your great work on SAR…we should all just take more pictures, they speak more more words than we can all write! Cheers
PS english is my 1st and only language, so I am jealous you can speak (type) it so well as a second or third
+++ I hear you. Great post redfern and great job Andrea
…and yes Andrea, the FF E-mount revolution could prove too slow if they really first release a FF E-mount which will be a super expensive video device. The competition will get time to develop their own FF Leica alternative to be released shortly after the FF NEX-7x or NEX-8 probably due in ultimo 2013.
The FF NEX, whenever it comes, will be a true Leica M9/M10 alternative + much more
I doubt that anyone would come out with a FF mirrorless to compete with Sony in 2013. Fuji barely got their system started. m43 is just m43. Canikon is too conservative to cannibalize their own DSLR. Pentax/Ricoh is still busy sorting their mess out to have any real R&D in this.
Sony is really “rushing” this out if they are going to have a FF NEX by next year. Still, they should. If it’s a good cam (to most people would be good low light), they would have the hearts of most alternative/legacy users. They just need to materialize 1 or 2 essential FF NEX lenses (be it a 50 or a 35) by 2014 then the system would explode from there. FF is not for soccer moms or P&S upgraders so prime is the way to go. Then they just need to drop the whole SLT and merge the two (SLT adapter for “legacy” Alpha lenses, especially those longer than 200mm).
+1
Our critical comments usually is not to you or your work, but rather to Sony strategy or we discussing idea as such.
+3 Entirely agree!
+3 Good job as usual, Andrea, please hold on! It is obvious that the NEX system has many advantages. My modest question is about the discussed firmware upgrade for the NEX-7. Do you have any news about it?
+4. Believe or not – life is (tiny) little bit more interesting with SAR and precipitating next rumours along with Sony (good or bad) ideas. 🙂 😉
What he said!
Andrea we love the work you do here. I appreciate all the hard work. Keep it up !!
I definitely agree. I really enjoy looking at your site, thanks mate.
+3 ! Include the fact that some of readers are in the same situation. English is not our mother langage.
One news. Voigtlander represnetative told me that the f:2,5/35mm will be available in september and the f:4/21mm in October.
Thanks for your site and your work.
A Sony FF E-mount lens could be simply an Alpha lens with the adapter permanently stuck on the back.
Whether a Sony FF still camera starts a revolution depends on the price. Bearing in mind the short life of digital cameras before they become obsolete, the 7 is already expensive. If the price is much higher, sales will not be large, I think.
NEX-7 is expensive? In comparison to what? Last time I checked, the Fuji is $600 more, the om-d is only $200 cheaper. Among these 3 new APS-C mirrorless, NEX-7 has more features as a camera (not counting in the lens system) with the best ISO 100 IQ. Granted, Sony should come out with a sensible price for the FF NEX, but definitely still be much more than the $1200 price tag. $2000 is reasonable, if not on the cheap side (given it will be similar to the NEX-7 with some improved features). People have to realize that FF is not cheap. It is only a rumor that Canikon would come out with a sub-$2000 FF, but only time will tell the actual usability/availability of these cams. Clocking in 20K frames with my NEX-7 and I have not regretted paying that $1200.
Well the NEX7 ($1,198.00) costs more than a good APS-C DSLR like the D7000 ($1,096.95) or a Pentax K5 ($879.00) which is weather sealed. Unless the EVF is very expensive to produce, I can’t imagine it costs that much more to make. Still, since it is newer than both those cameras, and fairly unique, the price is probably not that high.
Compared to the excellent XF prime lenses for the Fuji XPro, the price of the Zeiss 24mm Sonnar seems very high (almost twice the cost)- if you can even find one.
>A Sony FF E-mount lens could be simply an Alpha lens with the adapter permanently stuck on the back.
They won’t do it. This will damage their reputation.
Anyways, there’s a lot more FF lenses than there are E-mount lenses.
I think the only way this camera can be successful is that they start with A mount and add SLT and Emount adapters. That way they have enough lenses right away, they can go full phase detect (in case sensor based phase detect is too slow) and they give Emount lens owners a chance to use their lenses. and let’s not forget SSS which according to the article mentioned is not possible (unless they use pixel shift which would result in crop) with E mount. last note: Andrea you have to be sure people trust you and appreciate your work on this site, otherwise we wouldn’t come here. Forget about few whiners and don’t worry about trolls.
You can’t make an E mount adaptor for an A-mount camera. The A mount is much further from the sensor, so such an adaptor (if made) would allow only close macro focussing. No E-mount lens would focus to infinity.
Sure you can – just make a camera with interchangeable bayonets – so that you could remove A-mount with SLT box and AF system and put in E-mount instead. 😉
Yep, but as I tried both, the 24mm CZ is at least better than the Fuji 19mm. The AF is quieter, the bokeh seems nicer and the overall sharpness from f/2 onwards is at least comparable. Sure, that doesn’t justify double the price, but you get a little bit more for that money.
GUESS: FF NEX may have 1.5x times longer back focus length (flange back length) than current crop-body NEX, so that it get 1.5x wider projection of the light from the lens onto the FF sensor. It need 2 times more sensitive sensor for dimmer light, very efficient bionz process and cooling mechanism. It may cost very higher than nex-7 and a99.
If you just multiply the flange distance by 1.5 it will not multiply the image by 1.5 !!
For a start this image won’t be in focus !
Andrea, don’t be too hard on yourself about the SR5 thing.
I have followed the site for quite awhile and you put far more effort into the rumor site than any of the other photo rumor site admins.
We need to find out why Sony has done so much foot-dragging concerning lens. This attitude about adapters is the same one that Sony had about the E-mount. It took them a LONG time to get it into their corporate skulls that the E-mount needed a full array of dedicated lenses. We need to put the pressure on Sony NOW to start designing FF lenses for the coming mirrorless camera, since it is a lengthy delay from blueprint to mass-produced product.
“We need to find out why Sony has done so much foot-dragging concerning lens.”
My guess is that most people who buy a NEX camera with the kit zoom never buy another lens, so cameras are much more profitable than lenses.
Considering development costs, some lenses may not be profitable at all.
I think it could be the mirrorless alpha mount camera (just like Pentax K-01) that would be very interesting once the on-chip PDAF can kill off the CDAF on a large size sensor.
PDAF is not going to kill off CDAF. CDAF is accurate, no front or back focus. PDAF can measure distance CDAF cannot. Current CDAF system especially from Olympus and Panasonic are extremely fast. A hybrid system is the best which is what the manufacturers are doing.
Yes, according to this
http://www.photographyblog.com/articles/head_to_head_review_olympus_om-d_e-m5_v_nikon_d7000/ the focusing speed on the OM-D is as good as on the D7000 and more accurate. The only place it deems to fall down a little is on tracking moving objects.
So it seems that plain CDAF is capable of being very good.
The link you posted doesn’t prove the point. Because it doesn’t take in account that lenses were made larger and more expensive than they could be if CDAF would be better.
Andrea, I really appreciate your effort and you’re doing well. Been following you since 2 years ago, and many rumors are spot on (I would say…90% of them) and many forums and websites do refer to your work. I just wanted to say thanks for your time and effort.
Say Hi, and Thanks to your top sources too.
And if you find some insider of Sony (those that are willing to hear and help get the best ideas for both A-mount and E-mount systems from the user base) say him/her that we really need Sony to push the lens and accesories research and development along firmwares.
From a market perspective it would be one of the least interesting options, since it wood rule or the use of any glass from other brands and legacy glass in general.
You’d limit the market potential incredibly from the start.
Should have checked my message on my phone before trusting auto correct…
What it should have said:
“From a market perspective, it would be one of the least interesting options, since it would rule out the use of any glass from other brands and legacy glass in general.
You’d limit the market potential incredibly from the start.”
Should have checked the user id as well 🙂
Oh dear…. coffee break! 😉
Andrea, I have been following SAR since the very early days of the A7xx rumours. You kept me from swapping my A700 for the then newly released D7000, which I would have regretted after seeing the A77.
Keep up the good work.
Andrea, I detect embarrassment in your writing: don’t be. I and many others appreciate your work here and the usual few trolls are just part of any forum.
Some write like they know how stuff works: most of them don’t know squat. Nerds and professors are usually stupid.
Some bash you for a free service because you don’t say what they want.
I believe most trolls are marketing people from Sony’s competition. Gently tell them to piss off.
Thanks mate and keep up the good work.
A full-frame E mount MUST HAVE native lenses eventually. If the only fully-supported (AF, aperture, EXIF data) lenses are A mount, one loses compactness especially for wide-angles. If this was a permanent situation, people would switch to FF mirrorless systems that do have native lenses.
In principle many would use NEX FF as a true alternative to Leica. I do not see a problem for this group who enjoys using glass made for Leica M-mount. Why would this group necessarily want native NEX FF lenses. If they want AF and or IS once in a while then they can just use the NEX FF cropped with the cropped sensor NEX lenses or even A-mount FF lenses with Sony adapter…
Remember, the NEX with an M-adapter is still an extremely compact system camera let alone a FF system camera. I see no problems whatsoever
You’re right, but: The question is whether users who happily use non-native lenses are sufficient for keeping the mount commercially successful. I doubt that, especially if competitors offer native FF lenses for mirrorless systems.
Which competitors might that be? Leica? If Sony actually comes out with a FF NEX next year. They would have at least 1-2 year head start before anyone wants to jump in. However, in order to lure in the Leica shooters, they have to work on those microlenses for WAs. Curve sensor would not be a viable option since it would degrade any telephoto performance. Something gotta give, so it would be interesting to see how Sony is going to handle this. The NEX-7 already has more resolving capability than the M9. If it has not been the corner smearing and color cast issue, it would win most Leica shooters out there.
A dangerous game would this be. What if e.g. Canon published a FF mirrorless with an appropriate lens lineup next year? They have the competence, they have the money.
>not be a viable option since it would degrade any telephoto performance.
It doesn’t have to be. Optical designer can use negative group in rear of the lens (that is, *telephoto* (strange, yeah?) lens design) to shift exit pupil closer to image plane.
The problem with curved sensor is that most of existing lenses produce flat images.
Rumours is rumours and I always read it with a pinch of salt, so not sure why people can get upset if it is wrong. They should just grow up.
Anyway, keep up the good work! : )
This! +1
I am read your post everyday, this is a great site, true or not is not important. Wrong rumours can help us feedback to Sony, (if Sony is reading all these) to let sony knows what we really dying to have. Whatever the rumour is just leak it to us. You are doing the difficult job well and we really appreciate it, great effort! : )
Don’t be apologetic, your work is always appreciated.
Any news for the new alpha FF camera(s)?
I always thanks and love to the rumor from you.
Thanks again for your hard work!
news on A99? .. nothing?? 🙁
from this source: http://www.sonysdf.com/alpha/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=71633
this machine named NEX-V995E, announced with LA-EA3
27/8 debut for the a99 & 50 1.2….. soon see how good that source is 😉
Here is the thing, FF sensors used to be very expensive to produce, but over time they get cheaper and cheaper as the fab techniques get cheaper and the yields higher. It will get to a point where Sony is actually better off producing FF sensors over APS-C, especially in it’s current status as a sensor supplier.
The market is calling for bigger sensors, starting at compact and mirrorless cams, this means that DSLRs will have to follow suit, why would (avg consumer) carry around a big bulky camera, when they can get the same IQ in something that goes in their pocket? They won’t. So there has to be another express advantage to DSLRs in all forms above mirrorless and cams such as the RX100 (which incidentally is selling very well, mostly due to it’s ‘massive’ sensor).
Nikon will be launching a ~$1500 FF DSLR. Something previously not possible due to high cost of components required. Next year we will see everyone with $1500 FF DSLRs. The year after that $1000 FF DSLRs and so on. That is a pretty rapid rate of change. DSLRs within a few years will all be FF, because demand for FF sensors will outstrip APS-C and R&D money will be spent on higher end FF sensors, yields get better, fab processes get cheaper etc.
So what does all this have to do with a FF NEX / E-Mount camera? Well two things, one is that the mounts are converging and becoming largely interchangeable, if they can do FF in E-Mount and full support A-Mount lenses then why they wouldn’t switch to fully E-Mount cameras is beyond me, so Alphas will probably become FF E-Mount. NEX too will become FF E-Mount but ‘designed for APS-C’ lenses, which will essentially mean you have to use A-Mount lenses (the more ‘pro’ lenses) to get the full FF benefit. It will be a sales technique, somewhat of a gimmick! Buy this little NEX now and when you are ready, upgrade to the Full Frame experience through A-Mount lenses… and honestly this is no bad thing.
So while FF sensors are more expensive to make than APS-C at present, making JUST full frame sensors, especially being they will soon be all they are making for DSLRs, will actually cost less. It will be the ‘system’ the differentiates the cameras, rather than their physical sensor size.
And of course enthusiasts will love it as well for adapting old lenses (which Sony have embraced already), so it does make a lot of sense. It should also attract of a lot of attention and people to the brand, it will be a halo product that people might buy to use their legacy glass or glass from a different manufacturer, but having experienced how good it can be, will start investing in native and semi-native lenses as well, start getting more and more tied to the brand.
Nikon aren’t doing it, Canon aren’t doing it, m43’s certainly aren’t doing it, Fuji ‘might’ do it. Even if this launches without a single FF lens it will definitely have the interest of the enthusiasts and at what cost? Nikon and Canon won’t do it because they would fear cannibalizing their own SLRs, but Sony won’t be worried about that, not in the slightest.
This has turned into a ramble… hope someone gets the point because I think I lost it somewhere…
The bulk of the sensor cost is the silicon so even with 100% yields (and FF yields will always be lower than APS) FF sensors will be 2x the cost of APS-C.
The bulk of the cost of materials is the silicon, the bulk of the cost for low run silicon like FF sensors is in the R&D and tooling / preparing for fabrication. That and the lower yield rate, but that should be significantly improving. This is a large reason why they don’t bring out a new sensor ever week, they have to make a significant enough return on investment. While FF will always cost more, due to greater material usage, the gap will close significantly the greater ROI they get from greater adoption, higher yields. The price difference will become small enough that they can build them into low cost cameras before we know it. In fact it will get to a point where FF sensors will be cheaper than APS-C because the ROI in APS-C will falter and fade away, if every manufacturer is mostly buying FF sensors.
While part of the market wants “larger sensors” – part also wants “smaller cameras”. APS-C cameras are a pretty good compromise Of course current APS-C DSLRs are much bigger than they need to be as they uses mounts designed for “full-frame” 35mm film cameras. It costs more to make lenses to cover full frame format too – so the price difference is not only in the sensor. APS-C cameras are always going to be significantly cheaper than a full frame camera using similar technology – and they can be significantly smaller too – especially if you take the lenses into account.
APS-C sensors are still getting better – and they really have more than enough IQ for all but the most demanding photographers making large prints. (A lot of people seem to think they need full frame though.)
I really don’t think APS-C is ever going to be outsold by “full frame” – the two formats will go on, side by side.
APS-C vs FF
Sports Cars vs Pickup Trucks
Strangely, pickup trucks beat those «sport cars» in every aspect 🙂
A Hug back! thanx for everything Andrea!
To much to read.
It is better just wait and see what Sony release next.
Andrea, you are doing a nearly perfect job at an inherently imperfect enterprise. A rumor site cannot be 100% right all the time. You are giving information with clear explanations of the basis for that information so we can judge for ourselves how much weight to give it. And you seem to be careful about what you publish even on those terms. Keep up the good work. Yours is one of the first websites (on any topic – and the first on photography) that I check every day.
Id say you have the balance just 🙂
If rumors don’t come true, Ive still enjoyed the discussion.
Its like camera news but more entertaining 🙂
Keep up the good work on all 3(4) sites!
Keith
I agree with others, thanks for your time in getting the info onto the site, its one of my daily stops when I browse the web.
Please know that when being critical of rumors posted its not an attack on you in any way – for me its always a discussion on the direction Sony is going with its cameras and since I have a FS100 + 5n + lenses and such – I have a lot invested and I want to see Sony make the right moves to strengthen its position in the imaging world. My criticisms are always opinions on Sony’s strategy and the logic (or lack of) behind some of its decisions.
How about some VG news? Any updates to the VG20 or a VG30 on the horizon?
Thanks again.
@andrea
Your work here is fantastic.
Many thanks from Venezuela.
Please do not worry! We will still love you if you get a rumor wrong! 😉 it makes it more fun!
Andrea, when you are asking Sony to shift to E-mount, you do not think on the existing several million a-mount lenses and their respective owners. Sony cannot throw away the base of users, which are not less valued than the market share.
The resources are limited on the one hand and introducing affordable FF E-mount lens will certanly make a lot of current a-mount owners doubt in the future of the mount on the other hand. That can lead to loss a users confidence and a market share.
Sony will shift to the E-mount. Its inevitable. DSLR/DSLT sales are not growing. Its business. Sadly they’re diluting their efforts and resources. Its past time for convergence.
A few years back folks on other site used to say this one wasn’t worth reading and all the “rumors” we just made up rubbish. Funny, now every camera site I read contains “reports over on SAR say….” or “info courtesy of SAR…”. You’re a pretty reliable source of info Andrea, stick with it. If things occasionally go awry, dont worry about it, thats the nature of journalism.
Of course Sony should do this. Of course they will screw it up. In neither Alpha endeavours — A-mount or E-mount — have they suggested they know the way to build camera systems. However, they have shown that their expertise/folly is in building cameras.
Fast forward to the present/future – a full-frame E-mount. No native lenses. This is simply Sony saying “Lenses? We don’t need no steenkin lenses. Why you no learn that before?” I.e. Sony creates another opportunity for others to exploit.
Don’t worry. Fuji will deliver.
Hi Andrea,
Completely agree with redfern’s comments regarding this site and above all your dedication to this site and the other sites that you run.
For Sony Alpha news I always come here first. And from what I’ve seen most of the other leading tech websites do as well.
Brilliant work, excellent site, I salute you.
Now can you get a place on the Sony Board to get them to move on from just making cameras, to making camera systems!!!
>Let’s hope they will listen to the voice of the real customers
…and never make an E-mount FF, focusing on real Alpha cameras instead.
Dear Andrea
Since a couple of month I really appreciate your hard work and your enthusiasm for SAR.
Look, making mistakes is as human as breathing, eating or sleeping.
What I learned in the past month is that you always try to avoid misinformation and misguidance.
So if it will happen someday that someone of the sources fools you or you get sold to a hoax I wouldn’t mind or blame you at all. Could happen to each and everyone of us every day.
So please just continue doing what you are always doing here and doing it brilliant – feed us with Sony news.
Thx & best regards from good old Germany
D.
Hi Andreas
Would you have any more info and/or pics to come about NEX6 ?
Cant wait !
Cheers
TT
A full frame Nex style camera with A-mount and Stabilization would be a dream camera (in my opinion)
An a99 (a77 size) and alpha mount lenses is the dream combo, nex bodies are too small leading to lens heavy combo.
Si
First, thanks for doing a great job with the site. As someone considering a move to Sony I consider it required reading. As to your English, as a former college instructor I can assure you that you handle the language better than many US natives.
I agree Sony has an opportunity with a FF mirrorless camera. As a longtime mirrorless user I see mirrorless as a natural fit for such areas as studio still life and product, architecture and landscape – the very areas that also benefit most from a large sensor. Sony has a great chance here to break into the professional and high-end amateur market. Even without native lenses a FF E-mount could be a success. After all, most of the photographers in this market are well-established and have a stock of lenses. Autofocus performance is almost a non-issue for many of these people, although it must be dead accurate when they do use it. So long as someone – Sony or independent makers – offers quality adapters for A-mount, Nikon, Canon, Leica and medium-format lenses the camera will have some success. Offer it with a the right selection of quality lenses and it could be a huge hit.
Just my opinion, but it seems to be Panasonic and Olympus had a great opportunity in mirrorless, then lost out by being too slow to appeal to the high end of the market. (I currently use Panasonic.) Had they moved quickly to offer professional grade lenses and bodies they could have built a base of committed users before the other camera makers caught on. Instead they wasted energy on projects such as their endless string of entry-level kit lenses. Sony now has an opening to learn from that mistake and beat them at their own game with larger sensors and an integrated line of E and Alpha mount cameras – but only if they are smart enough and quick enough to act before Canon or Nikon makes their real move.
I would prefer an A mount mirrorless full frame camera to come out first. Perhaps with a NEX E mount adapter.
NEX is a product name, and mirrorless is just a design element of a camera, and good ergonomics are necessary to make any product held by people useable in the long run.
I would like to see a mirrorless camera with the ergonomics similar but a little smaller and lighter than my a850 or an the a77.
I for one have found the small size of the NEX difficult doing serious production work. The NEX -7 as it is too small for my hands; I shoot mainly in manual mode and making the needed setting adjustments over several hour long shoot hard for me. Also I find it awkward using a tripod with lenses like my Zeiss 135/f1.8 that doesn’t have a tripod collar like my 70-200/f2.8 does, lenses with a collar are easy with the NEX as it’s more like an extension to the lens.
Andrea, many of us appreciate what you do and the care you take handling the rumors. Keep up the good work and do not let up on being thorough and careful in your posting. That is what is needed to keep things in perspective.
First, I don’t think that moving to 35FF is the formula for revolution. The bulk of sales is in the aps-c or smaller format. It’s not just the cost. I know that eventually, they could come out with a U$1,500 35FF DSLR. But then again, aps-c or m4/3 is not going to be just sitting down and just be U$500 off that price. A full featured aps-c or m4/3 camera will then have to be in the U$700 when that U$1,500 35FF DSLR comes.
I believe that the revolution is in a MILC that can perform at least like a 60d or D7000 in shooting framerates and buffer, IQ, AF speed and accuracy, etc. In short, what these cameras can basically do, it a MILC should be able to do it. That’s the revolution.
In short, the revolution is when MILC will supplant DSLRs. It’s not a 35FF vs aps-c or m4/3 battle. It’s a DSLR vs MILC paradigm where the revolution will be, regardless of sensor size. As long as the performance of the MILC can match today’s 60d or d7000, that already will spell the momentum that will hard to reverse.
I still think Sony will eventually make a 35FF MILC. But I think we are 2-3 years from that. I don’t think it will be this year. AT the earliest, late 2013. Most likely, late 2014.
To go 35FF, is not just a technological hurdle. It would mean, building a new lens lineup. Though it is true that alpha lenses can be used, we know that the convergence of video and photos necessitates the creation of new lenses that addresses video. Hence we know that later on, there is a need to break off from also the old optimization and function of exiting lenses. Future lenses must be designed with video in mind, hence the motors will have to be different, and likely there will be a need to put another motor or function to also move the AF, without the need of the focusing collar.
Going 35FF would mean fighting two fronts. I think 2014 is the best time to attack this front because there is still a need to secure the aps-c beachfront. What is good about the NEX is if the mount is indeed big and can accommodate a 35FF sensor, then Sony surely has thought about this way, way in the beginning when they designed the next. It means, they foresaw this, and considered this, a possibility. The only question now is when, not if.
Andrea, SAR is like a morning newspaper for me:))). You are doing a wonderful job. On a side note, Sony is gradually pissing me off with no support of their advanced/pro line of alpha cameras. I need it for work and I do need that 4000-8000 ISO range and good jpeg engine for certain applications that pay my bills, as well as a more advanced AF module. I’d hate to sell off 9k of Zeiss and G lenses. Please, Sony get your matters together and release the beast already.
any a99 rumors? 😀
SONY Biggest Mistake is that stop making FF Cameras. look at the BIG HUGE GAP THAT Sony has of Full Frame cameras Almost a year!!!! and Sony Started not to far from Nikon making FF, Canon Has the most time, and Sony and Nikon started later about the same. Look where Nikon is now, and Look where sony is now at FF cameras, Also why would you have to FF systems??? yeah make you consumers buy two systems the NEX supposed to be affordable and portable!!!!
Good job, Andrea. I like reading this site and it helped me to make the decision to get the original NEX5 instead of NEX7, which came out a year later, and I had taken many memorable pictures with my NEX5.
It is hard to have all people to like you, that is why they are looking for excuses to put you down. Don’t worry about them to much, they will do it one way or the other, with or without mistake on your part.
The fact is, there are way more people who enjoy your site than the haters. So keep up the good work!
Outstanding work. Thanks for all your efforts.
First of all great site, and do not worry about the “words” thing as most intelligent people have traveled or studied another language and can figure out what you are saying.
Also, congratulations on having a great and FUN site, keep up the great work!
I think what Sony should do may sound extreme to some. But doing the reverse of what everyone thinks may make sense from a mechanical and production point of view.
1) No new A-mount lenses, FF or crop.
2) all new lenses will be E-mount FF and crop
3) develop a simple adapter to convert the E-mount lenses to A-mount, basically an extension tube 😉
It seems to me it’s much easier to make a short lens longer, than a long lens even longer! I’m sure it’s more complicated than that though…
A FF NEX may successfully compete with the rumored Leica M10, even without dedicated lenses, especially if its interface and ergonomics are tuned for the use of manual focus adapted lenses.
But this would remain a niche camera, and an expensive one (perhaps not by Leica’s standards).
What I don’t really understand is why they would introduce a FF camcorder as a priority. I mean, virtually all cine lenses cover Super 35, i.e. APS-C, at most. I know you can use FF photo lenses to film movies, but I’d still find odd that they would release a FF camcorder.
People do shoot videos with 5DmkII, a camera with no EVF and barely suited do that purpose. You need to collect a lot of third party assist thingies. They will pay a much larger price for body which has all needed out-of-the-box.
…….but with the risk that they will be “too slow in fulfilling it“.
1000% correct.
Thanks Andrea for your work.
Andrea said a good point, “The cameras are extremely popular but the camera owners can’t buy the right lenses for it.”
Sony is really lag behind on the development of high quality optic. She does not success Minolta’s technology. Zeiss seems help but it only serve a few of people who can afford while G series is also too limited. I think can slow down a little bit on the camera body and push lot more lenses to the market which should be more profitable.
Still think the 50/1.8 OSS might cover (most of the) FF, the back opening is much larger than kit lens and 16mm have. Also most 50mm designs are traditionally FF based.
There’s no point in an FF camera without lenses… unless you’re into legacy lenses, like many hard-core Nex users are. I’m not sure that this is a limitation, but personally, I’ll stick with APS-C.
This could be a really impressive ploy by Sony — the competitors are now launching systems that can’t go FF, so Sony can claim the high-end.
As for not the right lenses for current Nex, this is not so. While not every lens is for everyone, the lens selection contains the most important/wanted lenses by normal, average people. The 18-55/55-210 is a fantastic combo. The CZ24 should appeal to the higher end. While I think a 60mm might have made more sense, the 50mm is highly regarded. And even the 16mm that people love to hate works really well for me, and I’ve very glad that Sony made it and at a great price-point (especially given the wide-angle adapter). But give them time — they will have more lenses.
But I’m tired of hearing about how bad the lens situation is. I’m only waiting on perhaps one lens — a more affordable, pancake 24mm, should that appear. The larger market is going to be able to work with the existing lenses.