image on top shows current A7.
The Sony A7s keeps surprising us! It will get announced on Sunday already(!) and it will record 4K video. And now I just learned it features a new 12 megapixel Full Frame sensor! It completely goes in the opposite direction of the market who calls for “more megapixels”. And I think Sony’s move makes a lot of sense: Larger pixels, cleaner high ISO images, more fps! This is going to be an amazing 4K camera!
Reminder: The A7s will be unveiled live at 2pm in Las Vegas (on Sunday). You can follow the live video stream on SAR!!! This is the time in other time zones:
– 5pm New York time on Sunday April 6
– 10pm (22:00) London time on Sunday April 6
– 11pm (23:00) Berlin time on Sunday April 6
– 6am (06:00) Tokyo time on Monday April 7
Follow SAR via RSS feed (Click here), Twitter (Click here) or Facebook fan page (Click here) to not miss any rumor that will be posted between now and the announcement! Stay tuned!!!!!!!!
Personal note: Sorry for my messy English and the many typos. I am travelling across Tuscany and some places have bad connection. I am working in extreme conditions 🙁
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Reminder (SR = Sonyrumor):
SR1=probably fake rumor
SR2=rumor from unknown sources
SR3=50% chance it is correct
SR4=rumor from known sources
SR5=almost certainly correct!
0 Responses
Now we know why this isn’t a replacement for the original A7 and A7R
Correct. This is a shot at the growing DSLR video business. I don’t know that I would BUY this but I sure might RENT it for video shoots…
I am preordering 🙂
I would too, but then I might wait a month after the release so the price drops $500.
+1. $500 sounds about right based on what has been happenning
They should surprise us with a better video codec, sensor stabilization and silent shutter.
12 MP FF Sensor, my bet 10~12 fps, iso up to 204800, the only thing we need is good glass for this kind of speed, i.e, sports or fast action related.
if A6000 is 11fps with 24Mp and A77II is 14fps with 24Mp also, I think A7s will be 22~28fps with 12Mp.
This…is so tempting but also a little useless for me. On the one hand I’ve been begging for a lower megapixel ff sensor, that has 4k ready video since I use it for work. But I can’t use THIS for work considering the battery life….arggghhh if they dropped this thing in a VG camcorder I’d run through a wall to get it.
Sure you can. There are AC supplies that plug into the battery compartment, and even Quantum-style 7.4 battery packs. Worst case, use the battery grip.
That’s what I meant to say. 🙂
You know…that’s not bad idea I don’t know why I’ve not though about it before. I’ve always thought the quantum packs as being used for flashes…if it works to power camera’s just the same I’ll really have to look into that.
I meant “quantum style” – not quantum flash packs per se. Let me get back to you with a link someone posted on DP Review with an ebay kit he’s using. My email address is my name (one word) at gmail.
Is it that hard to keep a few batteries handy and swap them out? I only ask this because I have a BMPCC, which has the battery life of a fleeting thought, and I don’t mind swapping batteries of the incredible quality the camera puts out. So to get exactly what you’re looking for it, isn’t swapping batteries every half hour or hour of constant work that big of a deal?
It is because the things I shoot interviews, lectures and presentations mostly. Where lectures and presentations are concerned the lighting is terrible and a full-frame 12mp sensor would be just magic, however I’m not in a position to buy and operate several cameras and watch to swap out batteries when they die. I’ve obviously been making do without what I’m asking for, but the reason I ask for a VG-camcorder with a 12mp sensor and 18+ hour life is because I could really put it to use.
Can’t you just use the battery grip for the A7’s? Isn’t the battery time long enough then?
In theory you can use the multi port and use one of the 12000 Mah power packs for phones, You should get about 12 hours off that
As Jwilkinson says — buy a power pack for mobile phones or tablets. Look for one with good rating and make sure it outputs at least 2A (ampere). The ones that support tablets are usually 2A or more. I’ve got a 10 000 mAh one for when i travel and it can charge my tablet 3 times over if needed.
For my alpha i got 5x spare batteries though. One battery usually last me a day though but that’s because i only shoot still images.
How do you know anything about battery life. Sony knows video and they know what people need. It is just a marketing decision as to what they will provide for this market/price segment.
Same pixel density as my D50 or D3; glad I hung onto D50, maybe the value go up again more than the battery.
Wow, im officially impressed by that decision. Lets see if it has 60p and good bit-rates.
Let’s see if it has 120p too.
I would love for that, but not even the FS700 will do 120fps. I can almost guarantee that it wont.
maybe it will do 120 at 2K, maybe.
VERY INTERESTING.
But they sacrifice perhaps more IQ than needed.
Perfect FIFA tool, just record all the action in 4k and then choose the shoots.
Or shoot some 12mpix if you like.
12 MP 3:2 means it will do 16:9 with all pixels being used for video, which make for a very clean video feed. I expect the video crowd will love this if the price is not too high and Sony manages not to cripple to many key features for the pro video. It might also make a nice sports cam with high frame rates, depends a bit on what focus system gets used.
OMG if this has sony XAVC codec sony has a winner here for video
can it give clean iso 12800 ,, i am certainly fling with my thoughts !!
Holy sh*t, 12 megapickles definitely aren’t what I expected.
Will it be worth selling a7R and getting this instead?
Why have you bought the A7r in the first place?
This is gonna be a whole lot different a camera, than what the A7r stands for.
if you are into video, sports or photojournalism…
this new camera is a total different thing!
From what I was ‘told’ last year, this is close to what Sony need to get the photojournalist on board. A 4 K video camera with ‘photo’ profile, which means 24 full frame per seconds almost silently (no camera mechanical noise), excellent ‘ordinary’ noise level, maybe up to 25,400 (not the pixel peepers noise, but what real news and sports photographers uses).
These pro don’t need pixels hi-count, the smaller size lenses of the E format is a plus, so is the weight. The Zeiss lens are on par with the mechanical expectation of pros.
So this is less a 4 video camera than a 4k 24 fps photo camera
AWESOME!!!
Seems to be a GH4 competitor for sure. Less megapixels makes it more optimized for video. Wouldn’t be surprised if it’s released around the time GH4 is released. If it has the killer AF that the A6000 has, I may just retract my GH4 order. Granted the GH4 still has the 10bit 4:2:2 option and SDI out through the interface which is unrivaled at this point for those who need that in a small camera like this.
I don’t think it’s aimed at the GH4 but at the 5D, sensor size and price wise.
Even my 5 year old camera has a 12.1 Mpix sensor. dis camera will sux.
Seriously tho… The camera had my curiosity, now it has my attention.
Stills more Mpix than all your remaining teeth
It’s only after you’ve lost everything that you’re free to do anything.
Hahaha, Tuscany … rough conditions … poor you, I’ll take those poor conditions any day …
I was thinking the same! It doesn’t get more extreme than Tuscany… 🙂
This camera will top out the dxo low light test?
I don’t think so, because the top cameras of low light test are analog noise-elimination, but sony’s sensor are digital noise-elimination which will cause good performance at low-ISO but not really good as analog at low-light
Will A7s have the same price like” D4s comparing to D800 ” to A7R?
Link for preorder Sony please, nothing else….
impressive, finally a video optimized sensor, iso performance will be great
12MP means full sensor readout and no moire. RIP GH4
+1
I so hope Sony will be rewarded for being so bad ass =) GOod stuff!
Absolut nothing about the new FE lenses? So sad………..
Early May is the announcement date for the next batch of FE lenses or so the rumour goes….
This news absolutely requires the making of fast manual glass. Who out there will step up and make it for the FE mount?
Ok, I’m an alpha shooter and would have never bought the A7 and A7R. This camera? Your speakin my language Sony- you got me interested now. Please, this sounds REALLY f’in interesting….I shouldn’t be excited but I’m getting there.
Holy shit! I’m going to implode! With only 12Mpix the full well capacity is going to be enormous and if read noise is similar to latest Sony-sensors, then this camera will have DR unforeseen in DXomark.
With 12Mpix the full well capacity could be close to 150000 electrons. If the read noise was like in A7 and A7R, which have ~3-4 electrons read noise, then A7s will have dynamic range over 15 stops. This is very interesting.
The standard DXO ratings are based on a fixed output size so, all things being equal, will be much the same. Assuming the QE is similar, then (averaged across the output size), the maximum photons that can be detected will be similar as, of course, will the shot noise. Of course, things won’t be exactly the same, so you might expect slightly better output. Of course, at what DXO call “screen” level – that is native resolution, a 12MP sensor will have a big advantage, but I never understand why people fixate on that as output isn’t greatly better for any given output size yet you take a hit on resolution and, of course, the ability to crop.
However, this is surely missing the point. The real advantage of the lower pixel count is to be found on video and still frame rates. It should be possible to achieve 4K video without any line skipping (at 16:9), and I suspect that will also be true for normal HD video at 30fps as, in theory, a 2×2 array of sensors could be combined to produce a single RGB pixel output. Both approaches would give excellent DR and noise much reduced moire.
There is also the side effect that very high frame rates would be achievable, subject to the capability of the shutter. You could imagine something approaching 20fps for still images, without exceeding the data rates that Sony can already achieve.
I hope it has full sensor readout for video, better video codec, 12bit or 14bit per color channel video capture. This will be something like Black magic, GH4 and 5d mk3 competitor
at best its going to be 10-bit, most likely 8 with 10-bit out.
I don’t know about that, the more bits the more data and there is a limit that cards can take in datarate speed, it’s more likely to be the usual 8-bit 4:2:0 internally and uncompressed 10-bit 4:2:2 via HDMI out.
You mean the usual 4:2:0, right?
Yeah, corrected.
The GH4 seems to have a very efficient IPB 100mnps 4K codec, if Sony use their best codec, cards can take up to 200mbps but I’m not sure if much more than that.
Yes, but UHS-1 can handle 800mbits (really more like 600 real world) and UHS-2 doubles that. Card speed isn’t the limit it once was. XQD is straight PCIE so even faster.
But can it sustain it for video as well? If not, Why didn’t Panasonic made a 400mbps All-I 4K codec for the GH4? Wouldn’t it be more demanding from the processor and therefore also have heat and battery life issues?
Possibly. But I think Panasonic, like Sony, is more concerned over market segmentation. Look at the BMPCC which will write raw video at a rate of over 400mbps to UHS-1 cards (of course you do need fast ones!) and Panasonic themselves has switched from their proprietary P2 cards to UHS-2 in their higher end cameras. I think it is telling that they didn’t go with UHS-2 in the GH4. Of course it may have to do with battery and processor issues but their high SD cards that will do it. Personally I wonder if the gotcha of the A7s is that it takes only XQD cards. Sony has a lot more invested in that standard than UHS-2
BMPCC does so but with 1080p, not 4K, which means it has less compression, although I don’t know how it affects the processing part, it should have some effect on it, besides it reading larger data it’s also compression larger data. Panasonic took the All-I compression for 1080p up to 200mbps and that’s 1080p 8-bit 4:2:0, taking that as a base, 10-bit 4:2:2 4K would be much more. So I think that overall, whatever it may be, they are still not quite ready for 4K in 10-bit 4:2:2.
I think Sony could make a push for those cards but wasn’t there some news about them giving up on that? Only Nikon was actually using them, I think that there was not a Sony camera with that input for XQD cards.
But I’m curious to know about the IQ, codec, datarate, etc. Could this come with IBIS as the cherry on top of the cake?
The BMPCC is only 1080p but the data rate for the raw files is something around 50-70MBps I believe which is 400-560Mbps. So way higher than anything the GH4 is using. You just need very, very fast cards. I really doubt Sony will be using raw video internally. Not even the F55 does that but maybe externally.
Both Toshiba and Panasonic make UHS-2 cards that will write over 100MBps.
I’m not aware that XQD was discontinued. I read only recently that support was added to the F5/55. Things may have changed.
XQD looks cool on paper but it feels like another memory stick and isn’t faster than UHS-2 (currently)
Can Sony make it right again? I think that this might end up using the same codec as the one used in the AX100, which is a XAVC-S 60mbps, which sounds basically like a AVCHD for 4K, highly compressed. The FS100 does a nice job with a AVCHD codec, actually it probably does the best the codec can handle. So, can it match GH4’s IPB 100mbps codec for 4K? Or will Sony actually use a less compressed one? they should though.
I think it will depend on the price (honestly). If the camera is meant to compete against the 1D (and priced like it) then I think we’ll see XAVC in similar flavor a as the F5. If it is meant to compete with the GH4 then it will prob be throttled like you suggest. Sad but what I expect.
In my vision, Sony is aiming at 5D much more than GH4. Panasonic’s camera are better for video, but Sony’s marketing power far exceeds of Panasonic’s and GH series still remains as a niche camera – the GH4 might change that though.
I don’t think Sony is aiming at the 1D-C because that rumored hexagonal modular camera seems more like a $10K unit than this A7S, So I’m expecing 5D/D800 like price.
EOSHD just release a note saying that he has sources that confirms the XAVC-S and its 60mbps, with a 1.1x crop for UHD only – no cinema 4K for this camera.
Will Sony really do all the things right when choosing the sensor size and pixel but screwing and crippling the camera on the software front? It would be such a waste of Sony finally making sense. If the XAVC-S can’t hold against the GH4’s then it will depend on the HDMI output.
Panasonic was very clever in pipelining everything at 10-bit 4:2:2 and only transforming it in 8-bit 4:2:0 in the last stage of encoding, which means that the HDMI output just gives you that, true 10-bit 4:2:2, whereas a lot of manufacturers processes everything in 8-bit 4:2:0 kind of cheating and transforming it in 10-bit 4:2:2 and that explains why with some cameras even having the uncompressed file it doesn’t hold grading so well, because the info was never there to begin with.
So, how is Sony going to do this? Will the HDMI ou be a true 10-bit 4:2:2 or a mimic? If a mimic, it will really be a big waste for such a camera but nonetheless, this camera can be the next high ISO king, I guess.
The hexagonal body won’t go after the 1D-C market share because it isn’t a cross-over stills/video/action body. If that design sees the light of day I think it will be an F3/FS100 replacement.
You could be right about the limitations but I hope you’re wrong. How silly and artificial. Of course if you are right the price will drop quickly…. sigh. Why does Sony bring the biggest weapon to a gun fight only to shoot itself in the foot?
Well, not necessary directly but as a series, the 1D-C might have a DSLR body but it’s a EOS-C Cinema camera and the hexagonal camera should be aimed at the same market.
Well, I really wished Sony could do things differently. Fuji wouldn’t had the chance to create the X-Series had Sony taken the E-mount seriously delivering lenses and investing in high-end cameras. But I’m glad Fuji could enter the market.
With the A-mount I think Sony really tried but they gave up quite fast and they are trying to figure what to do with it. The answer should be in the market that having a bigger camera doesn’t bother so much, which makes me wonder how far Sony will take it before dropping it completely.
Had Sony made a A7000, that would bebb a great camera, it would have all the pros of the A6000 plus mic/headphone inputs and more – weather sealing possibly. But not wanting to hurt the A7, they dropped it for the A6000 only.
I hope Sony can deliver but I’ve been conditioned by Sony itself to only believe it when I see it.
With the new rumor of XAVC-s vs XAVC you are more likely right. It will be put against the 5D and the GH4. The idea of a speedy, low MP, 4k video camera seemed like a great compliment to Sony’s FS line which, while not lined up exactly, competes with the Cinema EOS line.
It seems that the XAVC-S format allows higher bitrate so, there is a slightly chance that Sony might use higher bitrates than 60mbps and the question remains, can Sony deliver the total package?
I think that the EOS-C competes in part against the FS but also against the CineAlta as well.
So, there WAS a catch.
As I see it, Sony chose the A7 formfacotr which was already a problem before, they had to choose a different and slower shutter so it could fit the camera. The smaller form factor is likely the reason why it doesn’t do 4K internally.
It probably overheats if it was to do it, so it’s easier to just output a clean HDMI out rather than taking all that data and encoding it internally. Sony is not wrong per se, they are just no caring consumers for that, aiming higher since the higher crowd are willing to use an external recorder for it – which there aren’t many yet.
It’s a let down, clearly, with the 12MP it was possible that Sony would finally deliver it for consumers, great video and 4K in a FF sensor, but not exactly.
But as I take it against the 5D, it does a good job, it should dethrone the 5D as the low light king in video and the IQ should be better than the soft image from Canon, in that sense it may be a good camera but for the most part, if anyone thought this could threaten the GH4, it’s not a 4K threat.
The only area in which it may compete is for those that were thinking about using the GH4 with the YAGH interface most of the part, so depending on the price of accessories to make the A7s a more complete camera, it might be a comeptition for the GH4+YAGH combo, but at least you can unplug the YAGH in the GH4 is you want so, whereas with the A7s, you would lose 4K capabilities.
that’s what I was trying to say. Which puts it in a really great spot IMO. compressed sharp video at the 8-bit for day-to-day work. Easier to work with and store.
10-bit for low end production work, or as a B-cam.
perfect pairing for the FS700 for me.
Thanks I do not know much about video, just read what video folks dream of. What you describe is pretty much 5d mk3 right? Is video RAW anything different i.e. Blackmagic?
kind of, except the 5D has terrible auto focus in video (which does matter for Steadicam work)
the 5D in general lacks alot of core usability features that sony has had for years, but has had accessory support.
Raw video is like raw stills, it does matter. But file sizes can be a bear, so its nice (IMO) to have both options.
It can describe the 5D but I was actually comparing to the Panasonic GH4 which actually records 4K, so all this part about datarate can be comparable and Canon uses kind of inefficient and old codec, Panasonic does a better job with smaller files but for the GH4, it requeres a new type of card, which guarantees minimum writing speed of 30MB/s. Which means a codec can output up to 240mbps, Panasonic uses 100mbps for IPB compression in 4K and 200mbps All-I in 1080p. It looks weird that the 1080p takes more space but All-I means it compress each frame and if it was to do the same with 4K I think it would take 2x~4x more. And all of that just for 8-bit 4:2:0 data, imagine if it was more.
Video RAW is very similar to photo RAW, you have all the data there and it’s great for grading the footage in the post, since you won’t destroy the information, just like with photo. And as with photography, it takes a whole lot of extra space. BlackMagic’s 4K Production Camera eats one SDD pretty quickly.
8bit is fine, seriously. It just needs a good high-bit rate codec. I mean, maybe if you hit 200Mbps it might benefit from 10bit, but otherwise all that extra bit-depth is lost in the compression…
Bam! I called 12mp in the last post.
When cropped to 16×9 it will be about 8mp – so full readout for 4K 16×9 video. Video theoretically should look clean, sharp and artifact free – if Sony doesn’t cripple the output to protect it’s higher end video options.
It will probably be ‘limited’ to 8bit 4:2:0 recording. Still, if its a good high bit-rate codec it will be pretty awesome. But save the 10bit 4:2:2 for the pro F-range cams.
ye I read you comment in the other post, you here right one :D:D in your prediction, while everybody else was saying 16 / 24 mp.
Well it will be nice if it happens and Sony offers better output than previous alpha video.
Finally, a camera with a density of pixel that fits the quality of sony lenses.
/sarcasm off
Nice move from Sony. Now please, cancel the video and produce nex7 design…
Great.
More E-effin-mount news.
YAWN!
Ugh…I actually did yawn. Time to close SAR for a few more days.
This website deals with all things related to Sony’s Photo and Video products, that means everything they have to offer or any news related to those sections of their business. If you haven’t understood that by now maybe you should close SAR for more than a few days and never comeback.
I imagine there will be a lot of serious A-mount photographers doing the same thing. Abandoning both SAR and Sony.
This E-mount craze is a joke for the noobs.
Amazing, I hope it’ll push 4k @60fps !
I think 120fps won’t be a problem.
!!!
That’s mean “s” like “slomo” /o/
So, this is the 4k FF camera the rumors have been about??
Not A-Mount, but a modification of A7?
Since admin also wrote that he has “zero info on A99-II”, it means NO NEW A-MOUNT FF THIS YEAR.
HUGE disappointment……………..
He didn’t even know about this camera until today. So a99 II can come anytime and a77 II is schedule for next month. Don’t get panic
There were rumors there will be new 4k FF camera. So, probably, here it is, in the shape of A7S.
Well, we EXPECT the A77II will come in May…!
A reviewer of the a7/a7R I listened to said he had talked with a Sony engineer who said they tried to make the a7 (and a7R?) 4k but ran into overheat issues.
I’m a bit surprised by the mp nosedive but it seems to have the videophiles cheering so it’s all good. Whether or not Sony always planned this route for the video niche is an interesting question because obviously 4k will eventually see broad adoption in bodies as part of a full feature set even if a higher pixel count degrades performance a bit.
Holy Cr*p…Take my money!!
Bummer, this mean I have to order both A7s and A7r …
And an a7 if you want to shoot action.
You will have to buy a camera for each purpose.
It’s not a good strategy if Sony want to take market shares from Canon and Nikon.
No different than nikon with there ‘S’ and ‘X’ models
this is bad new, I’m still saving for my A7, those plans just might change on sunday ,,,
Different shooters hsve differrent needs and the BEST way to provide for that is to provide choices.
Thats why I both totally aprove of this camera and totally have no use for this camera.
Its better to make a camera, that excels in one thing, than a camera, that is mediocre in everything. A55 was already an attempt to make it good in everything. They got close, but EVF and Video overheat, left a bitter aftertaste.
Sony actually making sense instead of going just for big numbers? Is it April Fool’s Day? LOL.
Holy balls! Manual focus E-mount Zeiss lenses and a 12mp camera are strangely very encouraging. It’s a hint that they are actually listening and understanding.
I still hardly believe my eye it is full frame and can do 4k in this size of body and produce good quality video for us. A-mount size camera still doesn’t release any good video quality, at least not muddy in aps-c sensor, not to mention full frame. Sony so far only having rx10 can read every pixel on sensor which make it produce good video quality, but it is 1 inch sensor size only so pretty easy to do that.
So if this a7s if really is full frame and can record good quality at 4k, then it will be the winner! Good for underwater and aerial shooting cause of the small and lightweight! If it gives 10bit internal in this small size of body(dream yet) then no doubt, it completely going to kill other camera, especially in coming gh4. But i will put my 10bit internal hope at FZ/A mount dslr size 4k camera that coming in next few months? Not sure seem Sony is hidding secret now?
Finger cross, anyway i just got my fs700, so i will patiently wait a small size camera that do good video for aerial and under water shoot in future.
Yes, yes, yes, I want one !!!!
This Camera is going to be a Night Monster
The Canon C300 will be about $11,999.00 better than this one.
no way this beast can cost only $2000
Yeah I suspect it will be priced close to the 1DC … But then the rest of the A7 series is very competitively priced so maybe it will ONLY be in the $3-5k range!
Maybe not. I got ahead of myself.
I so totally want to trade my A7 for this…
I’ll take it off your hands…
How much?
i don’t know how megapixels play into things besides higher resolution images. i don’t do video, but can someone explain why 12 megapixels is so exciting from a photography aspect? i was about to go with the A7 for wedding photography so trying to see if this is worth waiting for…
Lower mega-pixel count = less noise, much cleaner image (and the possibility of more dynamic-range too).
Definitely wait for the A7s. the 12mp will offer waaaay better low light quality and 12mp will be easily big enough for any wedding output…
Perhaps much cleaner images at higher sensitivity. Think Nikon D4s, Df – 16MPs
Sony can POSSIBLY ATTACK INTO THIS SEGMENT. D4s has also one of the best AF systemS to date, uncompressed RAW, tons of customisation. Sony are far from D4. So A7s at best may end up more like enthusiast camera competing with Nikon Df.
Sony does a great job with its RAW files so no problem there. A6000 AF looks pretty schmick, so if that goes in no problems there…New sensor so will be a generation ahead of what Nikon has so image quality will be excellent…So no problem there..I can customize the A7 as much as I need so no problem there…
Did I miss anything??
on most DSLRs when in video it skips lines on the sensor to get down to the 2Mps of 1080p.
12mp at 4K when put into 16:9 is a 1:1 pixel readout, which means way cleaner and sharper footage, as well as potential better color accuracy.
For stills the only reason this would be better is if has the A6000 focusing system and the potential of better High ISO
would the A6000 Af system be any benefit if i was planning to use the L4 adapter for my A-mount lenses?
not with the LA-EA4 no, maybe with the EA3 with the SSM glass. maybe.
without specs this is speculation obviously, they may add some killer still features.
no, that adapter has its own (phase detection) autofocus system.
IMHO it may also have a much faster fps rate than the A7, maybe 10 fps?
Very likely, ones of the things I love about the A77 for doing stop-action work.
It’s likely not a good choice as a primary camera for wedding still coverage.
It is not exciting for stills, small benefits large drawbacks. It is exciting for video because it is limited in maximum resolution. If you shoot a 36 MP still and only need 8 MP for a print, your program or the printer will downsize the image making use of all the data to give you a clean print. If you have a 36 MP sensor and only need 8 MP for video, or 2 MP for HD, in the past the cameras have just been dumping the extra data, so you end up with much less of the original image information. Each pixel is smaller and has more noise. For a still image you can average all the data to get a low noise print but not for video. A few cameras are now taking all the video information and downsampling to the HD resolution. This takes a lot of horsepower and few large sensor camera have been able to do it, maybe none. So with only a 12 MP sensor the camera will make use of all the sensor data, there might be fewer pixels but that is no loss to video. Not having to do fancy interpolations on the fly also reduces the processing power required. So big gain for video, a net loss for stills unless you need really high frames per second, we do not know what this camera will do but potentially it could offer very high still frame rates, 30 to 60 fps is certainly possible.
This is probably going to be a 1.3 crop in video, making it a super 35 eq.
that’s fine with me.
Well it is the standard, I have no beefs either. that would make speed boosters usable on it as well.
It could just be cropped to 16×9 in video mode but 4×3 no crop in still mode.
This rumor is too good to be true. However, it is true, I’ll likely buy one (or two) immediately.
12 megapixel FF and 4K?
I will KILL for this camera!
Street price?
Lol, me too. Was thinking about saving for the A77II, but if priced aggressively maybe I will go for this one (I’m interested in both stills and video).
SAR pixelphobics will be finally getting the camera they have been asking for.
Although I dont share your needs I sincerly hope this turns out to be a great camera for you.
I do believe sony should buid something for everyone and this camera is a great idea.
Silly for anti-pixel still shooters but great for video shooters who want their pixels without down sampling. Choice is a good thing for everyone: 12, 24 or 36.
A-mount users deserve such choices.
I do not think we need to battle over how many mp sony should make but do think sony should provide us the choice including super high resolution for those of us that want that choice.
I’m with you on a higher res option. I rented an a7r earlier this week to shoot a residence for designers with canon t-s lenses. 36mp isn’t much of a leap up from 24mp. I considered renting medium format but the expense wasn’t worth it.
Despite wanting a high res option, it doesn’t make sense in a video-focused model.
Agreed no single camera is best for everyone. Or every shooting situation.
Oh man, this sounds fantastic. It’s what the VG900 should have been!
incoming VG910 (maybe??)
Interesting thought, but I doubt they’re continuing with the line, sadly. It’s already been about 6 months since the usual refresh period of the VGxx series, and there has been absolutely no word on the rumor front about it. It’s too bad, honestly. It was a flawed design, but definitely different and it could’ve been fixed. If only they didn’t cripple them to protect their higher end models and DSLRs it wouldn’t have gotten the bad reputation all non-VG owners hold.
one can dream, loved the form factor of the VG cams for run and gun work. Just needed this senor and a second control dial, would have been very happy with it.
I agree! It was so great, but the sensors really weren’t great and the controls weren’t perfect. I also always wished it was weather sealed and had ND filters, but, if it did, than it’d be better than the FS100!
Smaller ARWs are certainly a good thing. But less noise … the fill factor will probably be slightly better than with 36MP. But: I doubt whether there is a noticable difference in noise between 12MP and 36MP, scaled down to 12MP.
im curious about the comparison after down scaling as well
I would be surprised if this is the preferred choice of any dedicated stills shooters. The ISO gain (if any) isn’t going to be much in my mind.
12MP and 4K makes a lot of sense for videographers! Not bad for stills either, tons of people hardly ever print a shot, so being a very clean shot at high ISOs will be fantastic for web photo show and even for smaller than poster size prints!
Please Sony use good codecs for the video !
No consumer grade codecs (Hey, one can hope right ?)
Sony nie posiada szybkich procesorów i może dla tego ten aparat będzie miał “tylko” 12 mpix by spełnić najwyższe wymagania nagrywania w 4 K
hm i wonder if that 12mpixel will bring any noise benefit over downscaled 24/36 mpixels.
should be awesome for video though, with a slight crop it´ll do 4k with 1:1 output.
Admin but is 12 MP foveon like sensor?It could be great…..
How about 3 layers of 12 mp
That would be cool but I’m doubtful. Would love to be proved wrong!
Infact it’s what’s in my mind…..too good to be true…
Cleaner high ISO images, just like the A7 is cleaner at high ISO than the A7R! Oh wait.
Let’s not fall for that fallacy again. It may be better at high ISO for still imaging, it may not. MP count tells us very little on that subject (coming from the same sensor designer), see the example above.
Shouldn’t low MP sensor produce washed out and blurry images like those from 4MP HTC One compared to “normal” 13MP sensor of Samsung when talking smartphones? 1:1 sensor readout is probably a good thing
I have HTC One. The problem is not megapixels in that phone. Compact cameras were in 3-5 mp range for quite a while and fared well. Heck, the first DSLR was like 1.5 mp or something close to that.
The problem with HTC one is that 1) User error – clean the damn lens, just like with any other phone or camera and it will do great, and 2) Update your phone. Old camera app
was horrible, new one is better, but still isn’t great. Best of all, get something like Camera FV-5, and the phone will stop focus breathing and will start taking pretty good images. Where it lacks in resolution, it gains in low light and dynamic range. I just wish it had a 50mm equivalent lens in the rear.
As they say – its not equipment 99% of the time, its the user.
12 MP isn’t quite the same as 4 MP though. But since we are talking about Bayer sensors (interpolation), 4 MP Bayer output as seen from the HTC, with typical jpeg compression and NR applied, isn’t all that great indeed, especially when displayed on large quality displays or a decent/larger sized print.
4K video on the other hand…
If Sony doesnt lock the HDMI and their XAVC codec is 100mbp/s 4k…the Lumix GH4 is dead on arrival.
I mean seriously…Panny had high expectations for the GH4. They are going into NAB finding out that tbeir new baby is still born.
Sony…you got them beat. Dont screw it up by crippling your HDMI port or forcing only 60 Mbp/s 4k codec!!
Yes potentially rather embarrassing for panasonic….
I would say light leaks and shutter shocks are much more of an embarrassment for the Sony fanboys, at least Panny’s gear works properly. Sony has a history of providing sub-standard video quality while Panny always punches above its weight and outperforms it’s peers. A7 video has been a real joke up to this point so I hope they’ve finally changed up their game after all these years. I won’t be holding my breath however.
A7 video didn’t need to be super amazing. Song’s video catalogue owns Hollywood: Panasonic need to punch above their weight else they won’t survive. GH4 won’t come near either A7 in still quality, either. The GH4 brings serious video to the table, no doubt, but it is the only Lumix to do so. Panasonic as a manufacturer simply lacks Sony’s versatility. Don’t get too hyped, yet. Sony owns 50% of the global mirrorless market. This means they’re doing something correctly.
I find it very curious that you make excuses for Sony’s past
shortcomings and then attempt to compensate by talking up something unrelated
such as their movie distribution business.
“A7 video didn’t need to be super amazing”… Huh??
By the way, here are the sales numbers for last year –
Olympus 29.8%
Panasonic 23.3%
Sony 20.1%
Personally, I could care less about the sales numbers within this group and wish you all the best with [finally] receiving a well-spec’d hybrid camera… just don’t be such a fanboy about it, you humiliate yourself in the process.
This camera has become so exciting. I can’t wait until Sunday to see the announced specs and some samples.
why not stay at least the 24.3 and not the 36 WHY 12? bummer. i hope that’s not true.
12 MP is for 4K video. I do not see this as a big seller for the landscape and portrait crowd. Might be of interest to sports photographers, most online or print uses for sports are OK at 12 MP, lose a little crop-ability but might gain a bunch of fps. How it focuses will matter to sports shooters more I think.
Or, alternatively, if it is much cheaper than A7, Say in the RX10-A77 range for body only, it could be a first FF camera, that is moving into APSc territory.
It will not be cheaper than the A7, not for 4K video on FF. The only other camera right now with that is the $10,000 + Canon 1DC. It might be in the range of the A7r, but we will find out Sunday so not a long wait.
If it’s true, it was decided on 12 mp because of pixel size performance increases.
I wonder if they worked with Sony Pro / broadcast / ENG division on the design.
Why not a a7rs with 32mpx and phase detection on sensor and with pixel binning for 4k video like the rx10 ? You got an a7, a7r and a7s in one camera.
All that processing generates heat and greater battery.. Do you want to use that processing power to provide higher fps, or do you want to pixel bin?
Pixel binning (2×2) for 4k video like what is done by the rx10.
Before binning, you have to read every pixel out, and you cannot readout 36 mpix full frame at 30 fps.
The rx10 reads 20mpx at 60 fps !
It reads a 1-inch sensor at 60 fps, not a FF one.
It does not read out 20 mpix at 60 fps. Why do you think that?
12mp full frame will kill the 16mp Nikon D4s in low light and is perfect for 1:1 cinema 4K (4096×2160). Now Sony has 12mp, 24mp and 36mp full frame choices !
Will it be a 16×9 sensor? Or will it crop 16×9 form the middle of a standard FF ratio? How will it handle APSC crop? Will you be able to get true 4k using APSC lenses or only true 4K from FE full frame lenses?
I’m sure this can be a 4k-only camera for full frame lenses. There are way too many APSC Sony lenses out there to ignore.
Very interesting math on this. I would suspect that 16 megapixel sensor might have been better with all the cropping involved?
They might have made this sensor specifically for future Sony Pro 4K video cameras but are re purposing it into this form factor.
WOW! I’m truly shocked.
(this is only a guess)
video is going to be a center crop of the 4K, which would be the surface area of Super35, most (if not all) e-mount lenses should work in video mode with 4K if thats the case.
Doubtful. It could be a 1.25x crop of a FF, for video stabilization. Math backs that up. 4k is 8MP. A 16:9 of a FF 3:2 12mp sensor is about 10mp. a 1.25x crop of 10mp is 8mp, which is 4k. So i’d say that they will implement the same video stabilization as they have done in A57, A58, A65, A77 and A99. Which is a digital image stabilization by the use of a crop factor.
And no, it will not be Super35 aspect ratio, because that would equal approximately 7.5 Mpix and I highly doubt that they would do an in-camera upscaling to a 4k resolution of approx 8.3 MP.
1.25x crop of 10mp is not 8 mp, you forgot the square. it is about 1.1x crop.
Thanks, hmm, in that case, it might just be possible to get away with Super35 on a FF sensor and have video stabilization as well. But still you can’t use APSC lenses for video, like @disqus_6eMwJIGFZT:disqus suggested. Image circle isn’t big enough.
Admin, looks like a bug in the disquis. Not sure if this is something that is customizable or has to be reported. Please see my comment, that starts with “Thanks, hmm…”. I’ve tried to add @ jwilkinson, by using a suggestion list, clicked on the nickname, and when I submitted, the nickname turned into that jibberish.
Full frame is 35.8 x 23.9mm Super35 is 24 x 12.7 mm which is a 1.3 crop. Well in the image circle of most APS-C lenses
IE 12MP->9MP of 4K
My guess is 4×3 for stills hence the 12 mp and cropped down to 4x2ish for video. All the pixels will be used for video except whats cropped out to get down to 4×2.
Stills are 3×2, not 4×3. And video is 16×9-16×7, or 1.78-2.39. There will be quite a bit of physical cropping involved. depending on an aspect ratio, it could be somewhere between 8 and 10 mpix. And that’s at full sensor width.
I don’t understand many of these posts. If you want high mpix then buy an A7, or A7r. If you want better video and possible a better sports camera, then buy the A7s. One camera can’t be optimized for all uses. Rather than complaining, you should thank Sony for providing so many options.
I am not a pro and cannot afford to buy three cameras for each purpose and carry them along with me. I do not want 3 specialized camera.
Why do Sony sell a a6000 with blazing af, a high megapixel A7r with no phase detection pixels and now a a7s camera for 4k video at the same time and cannot sell a very good camera with 32mpx and phase dection and af like the a6000 and pixel binning for 4k like the rx10. This is typical for Sony marketing strategy.
Same reason car manufacturers offer different models and each model also has different trims. Pick one to fit your budget and enjoy it.
It’s not for technical reasons but for marketing reasons they release so many cameras, in one year you will got all futures in one camera. But in the meantime many will buy all this cameras.
You are wrong. There are both technical limitations and marketing at play.
It’s for both reasons. I would love one camera that can do it all too but I also understand that manufacturers need to provide different choices for different people’s performance and budget needs.
The a6000 body sells for 600 euros, adding it’s af in the a7r would not rise the price of it a lot. But if you want 36mpx with fast af you have to buy another a7ra in 6 months.
Every manufacturer purposely cripples each product in one way or another to provide choices for different reasons. Just accept we all have different needs not only in cameras but in all facets of our lives and no manufacturer of any product can produce something that’s perfect for everyone. People’s needs constantly change also so how can any manufacturer constantly keep up?
Yes every manufacturer cripples each of it product but Sony is a master in this game. And if you look at the market share against Canon and Nikon, for each a7x what is sold canon and Nikon sells 10x more d600s and 5ds. Sony is more a company for gear heads as for photographers.
Thats a pretty bad comparison. Canon and Nikon have a fat market share and a higher market awareness as well as market brainwashing in any photography school. Sony might be targeting Canon and Nikon, but they’re in no position to challenge either at this point. What they seem to be doing is winning over the mirrorless market, so that when DSLR market shrinks to the point where Nikon cannot sustain itself there, Sony will already have a large piece of mirrorless market to themselves. While Nikon is only invested in photography, Canon is invested in other businesses as well, so it will be much harder to challenge that giant.
Sony has a lot of new and good ideas, but what I miss is a real strategy behind the product range. Fuji has great cams, with a full range of lenses, primes and zooms and is in the mirroless market less time, the flag ship xt1 has all the new technology of the company at an affordable price.
My observation is that Sony has a very talented engineering staff and a marketing department so incompetent it boggles ones mind.
That’s very true !
But Sony engineers should influence the product strategy they design and not only do what the marketing dpt order, but this should not easy to do in such a big company.
gtfo troll, canon is the manufacturer that cripples more their bottom cameras, look at the new rebel camera, completly striped of features old sensor old processor, Look at sony a6000 which is a far superior camera and cheaper completely packed with new features.
Sony fanboy
Many will buy all these cameras?! LOL, not bloody likely.
You are a lucky one, man !
Cost? isn’t that obvious.
If you actually NEEDED all those things you have the money for them.
Costs ? Yes but one camera with all future would cost far less as to buy all three cameras.
Don’t think so, a combined MACK Truck and Ferrari will cost you plenty.
In one year or even six months your will have both for the same price.
Maybe because it is not possible at this time for Sony to do so? Maybe there are design and engineering limitations considering the size of this camera and the fact that the A7 series are FF cameras and the a6000s are not? There are other cameras that offer the things you ask for, if you aren’t aware of it, why not buy one of those instead?
The af of a6000 is not a matter of size but CPU speed, software and af phase pixels. This could be integrated in an a7r without problem.
The are no other camera with 36 mpx in mirroless.
I own a a7r and a a6000.
I hope I will not buy a a7s to.
it is a matter of size, longer wires limit your readoyt frequency.
Yes but at pdaf read out is in 100-500 hz range at max not in the ghz range.
You are not even close. 500Hz would not be enough even for pixels, but both for AF and live view, they read out whole lines. You probably thinking about frame frequency, but data frequency is in small words, close to pixels, and with hundreds of lines and thousands of pixels in each lines and 240Hz frame rate (like in decent EVFs for Oly and Pana, don’t know about Sony) it comes to tens or hundreds of megapixels per second.
The Sony rx10 reads the hole 20mpx sensor at at 60fps.
That’s 1,2 giga pixels/s
http://www.eoshd.com/content/11337/surprise-new-sony-rx10-sensor-full-pixel-readout-5k-raw-video-output
The a6000 sensor has 179 pdaf pixels. You have 179^1/2 = 14 lines to read out or 6000 pixel/line x 14 lines x 240hz = approx. 20mpx/s.
And again the rx10 can read the full sensor at 60 fps approx 1,2 giga pixels/s.
And you think that there is zero lead time in producing a large array pdaf FF sensor? That’s a lot to ask them to produce with a wafer yield high enough to keep you from complaining that the price is too high.
The 24 mm ff sensors of the a7 has pdaf, the pixel size of the aps-c sensor of the a6000 is smaller as the pixels of the a7r. And you think it’s not possible to integrate pdaf on a 36mpx ff at a reasonable price ?
It requires a brand new sensor design and a brand new TSMC configuration, to get a good yield for the price to be low enough. Its easier to improve a yield of an existing sensor that still has yield issues, than of a brand new sensor, that has yield issues.
The 24mpx with pdaf is brand new to, the 36mpx of the Nikon d800 which is a Sony was released two years ago.
Afaik sensor size indeed affects readout speed and. Pdaf sensor speed. Quite a bit. So it’s actually a lot harder to make a ff sensor behave like the a6000 aps c sensor. Just wait for future generations. We will get there I the end.
The a6000 has 179 phase pixels to read out. I think it would took the same amount of time to read theses pdaf pixels from a ff sensor.
Because what you want has nothing to do with what is ready to go at a marketable price.
It’s a lot easier to do pixel binning in 1″ RX10 sensor because it’s back-illuminated. Even the APS-C sensors are still front-illuminated and you want a FF!
Why?
And why not manufacture a ff bsi sensor for video and better noise if it is the case?
Cost. Newer tech usually goes to smaller sensors first.
Bsi in not a new tech and is used as mainstream tech for low end inexpensive smartphones sensors.
Pdaf on bsi sensors:
http://image-sensors-world.blogspot.fr/2014/04/samsung-galaxy-s5-sensor-has-phase.html
And in one moth you will got a a7g with 20mp and global shutter without 4k and without phase detection pixels.
Probably perfect as second cam with A7R as first. As EOS-1D and 1Ds in the past.
I doubt this can be used for speed (e.g 1D series) unless they have completely put in a new shutter or at least replaced it with a global one. At 10fps the current shutter will make the camera feel like a jackhammer 🙂
At least there is no mirror to move inside. But i think/hope they use a new or modified shutter.
If the cam matches or overrides the speed of the A6000 and the picture quality of the Nikon D700, it will be right for me and many others.
you can actually crop a fair bit with 12Mp.
I dont need 4K but I quite fancy the smaller ARW files.
Price?
The A7 can be found for less than £1K with lens now.
Well, basically 4k is like shooting at 25fps at 9 MPix.
8 mpix
If it does 4096×2160 cinema 4K like the GH4 the math shows 8,847,360 px
4k usually does not mean cinema, it usually means UHD – 3840 x 2160 = 8,294,400 px.
You’re going to spend close to 2000 to get smaller raw files instead of a 100+ for a 2TB hard drive that can store all you want?
Never said i will pay 2000. whatever 2000 is. dollar I suppose?
Two question:
1 – What’s your point?
2 – What’s wrong with wanting smaller ARW to start with?
I have have about 2.8TB worth of storage at the moment and come back from shoots with 40GB + worth of pictures.
Smaller raws would be handy, plus they’re easier to work with.
I have a A77 and the files are a bit demanding for my computer.
12MP is plenty. I’m still vastly satisfied with the low res files from my A200.
My comment is gone.
What makes you think i’d spend 2K for it? 2K what? 2000 bananas?
Nothing wrong with smaller raws, it’s easier to worth with and takes less space.
I have 2.8 TB at the moment and come back from shoots with 40GB + worth of pics.
Out of curiosity, what kinds of situations require you to shoot 40GBs of photos? Also, which camera(s) are these from?
Asian weddings.
They last for days and they want as many shots as possible.
The families are very big and everyone comes. they require a series of shots with pretty much everyone. you end up with 1000s of shots.
There is that and big panorama. I use raws for flexibility. I to 200MP + panoramas. I will try bigger soon but it may prove a bit fastidious without a robot!
I shoot with both A200 (raw file up to 15Mb) and A77 (up to 25Mb).
Asian weddings… ok makes sense then.
people are drooling about this camera yet they have no lenses to use it.
I have 4 native e mount lenses to use, ranging from 24mm-20mm
I also have my canon lenses.
And my Sony A mount lenses.
And my Minolta lenses.
And my Sigma lenses.
And my Zeiss lenses.
I guess I have no lenses then.
200mm*
it defeats the whole purpose of a compact mirrorless retard you have to use adapters with lenses that are already too big.
And the only 5 that exist 2 of them are very similar to other 2 so it’s about a choice of 3 not 5.
Please tell me what you are going to do any differently with a 28-70mm F3.5-5.6 or with a 24-70mm F4.
Better use a dslr you’ll save money and it will actually be lighter and even maybe smaller if you use other than those 5 lenses.
5(-ish) full frame E-mount lenses currently, 5 more coming this year, plus (according to Zeiss) up to 5 manual focus Zeiss FE lenses, plus all A-mount with adapter, plus a crap ton of vintage MF lenses. Oh, and these 41 lenses: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?atclk=Mount+Type_Sony+E-Mount&ci=1884&N=4028759430+4190025432
Really?? I have the 35, 55, the 70-200 arrives in a couple of weeks. the wide angle zoom will be here in a couple of months. Just in time for my A7s to arrive..Not seeing the problem…
If this is a lower res sensor maybe a lot of the rangefinder lenses might also become more usable.
Some of us have all the lenses we want to use on a A7/A7R/A7S and we do… better than staying home and whining when other people are actually enjoying these cameras.
I’m pretty sure A7S is to feature thick AA filter, so rangefinder lenses won’t be really more usable.
If “s” is for sports they should definately improve that laggy EVF.
You can read out from 12 mpix sensor 3 times faster than from 36mpix at the same ratio of skipped lines – or can read out all of it for perfect (better than OVF) picture in the dark.
You dont need the entire sensor to be read out to see in the dark in high isos. Cameras have been doing that for ages now… needed faster lenses back then but it’s not new.
Does anyone else remember, like, 5 years ago when the D3s and D700 were unstoppably great cameras that every photographer used and loved and printed posters from? If this really does have the new AF, it could be an amazing camera for most people.
They printed lots of posters from D3/D700/D3s for smurfs… I mean the tiny creatures, not the movie 🙂
oh shit, i am definitely gettting this one
Man, I can’t wait to take exciting video of my cat. I want full professional video of every fine furry detail. .
*Miaow*
Sony in challenging Canon’s DSLR video market – way to go!!
What if this thing has global shutter.
Then, if priced right, it will take over the world.
Global shutter is for a7g !
No, a7g comes with a shiny grill, spinning lens caps and a subwoofer.
A7, A7r, A7s… next step: A7b/w or A7m
don’t forget a7xxx, strictly for Adult Photo and Video work. It has a special feature, where anyone close to the camera gets an instant raging hardon. ……Even women…. 🙂
Lol, but what is the technology behind it, blue smoke ?
Comes with a retro mode that adds mustaches and sideburns… even to other parts of bodies.
Finally there’s ‘climax shutter’… we all know how that works.
Wow, I’ve got to say I’m super-excited by the sounds of that. Less pixels on bigger sensor is gonna mean epic things. That’s gonna be super bright. For the first time I feel excited ever since Sony killed the NEX line… this could be my NEXt to replace my 5R. Here’s to hoping for a touch/flip screen!
Gee, just imagine how excited people would be if Sony made it 1mp. ;^)
1. Wait and see how wrong you are about the MP thing. If you know the math you might know by how much you were wrong too.
2. Sony didn’t kill the Nex line. They didn’t come over to our houses, drag our cameras to the porch and shoot them. It’s only a name change. Are you that lame to judge a camera by its name? Then you should be saving your pennies to buy a Leica or a Nikon.
Guys! I already heard this camera has light leaks if you shine a lighthouse fog light at it at ISO 208,000 and a 6-day exposure. I’ll pass on such a seriously flawed camera
.
lololol
I think I will have the same problem as well as when you turn the camera around, shake it up and down, change lens, put the body cap on, and finally power off the camera only to find the camera can no longer take pics.
Good one 🙂
+100 ! Excellent ! Purely excellent remark !
lol…
I’ve heard it cannot do 6-day exposures at all! I’ll pass on this camera.
Sounds like good specs for my needs (mainly video). If it records to a 50 mb/s 4:2:2 codec, it’ll be revolutionary.
Hopefully we’ll see some decent test video and AF tests soon. Got a GH4 on order, but would prefer to stay full frame. Been waiting for 2 years for a camera that makes me sell my 5d3. If the AF matches the A6000 and the video quality/DR is good, I’m dumping the 5d3 for a A7s/A6000, metabones EF adapter and BOOM!
Doesn’t the lossy raw compression negate most of the SNR advantage of larger pixels?
Assumed advantage. See A7 vs A7R (nearly the same, main difference comes from OSPDAF pixels and circuitry with the A7R thus taking the victory).
No one has demonstrated that anything of any actual significance has been lost in the ARW algorithm; in fact several websites have gone out of their way to show that it’s a tempest in a teacup.
Actually, I’ve been getting artifacts in high-contrast areas of my NEX-6 images and was trying to figure out where they were coming from. It appears to use the lossy compression as well, so that would explain a lot. I have no problem with Sony making lossy raws an option, but most of the time I’d prefer an ACTUAL RAW file.
Does depend on what program you use as well.
I seems only those who don’t actually own an A7 think there is a problem with RAW compression…Go figure…
I’m surprised they are sticking with the name A7 for three different cameras with very little in common, sporting 12, 24 and 36 MP sensors. It would be OK if they are modifying the pre-existing 24 or 36 MP sensor for this camera but they obviously not, it’s a whole new project. Is there a shortage of camera names at the moment?
Very little in common, are you serious! Maybe the A7s will actually be a lot different, but there is very little difference between the A7 and A7R…
Excited to see what this camera can do, 4K video or not, 12MP is plenty for stills aswell.
WOW WOW Sony came back to game !!! Great .All people looks towards PANASONIC GH4 , and what a surprise . I am gonna hold with shopping gh4 .
I wish Sony had the Olympus 5 axis IS
Really interested in this! If this has a sensor as good as the A7 or A7r at 14 stops dynamic range, coupled that with some sort of 4K recorder. Yes please. :3
At 12 mpix FF, they can make 16-bit RAWs and capture 16EV of DR.
Didn’t see Nikon do that in their D3/D700/D3S. Two of those were Nikon’s highest end models.
Unless if you’re saying some magic has happened since then…
Great, now you can take high def pictures of your cat taking a shit. Hope your mom approves.
Haha! Get outta here.
And in “the year of the A-Mount” we see yet another E-Mount camera
:-/
Fuck A-mount. 😀
You made a mistake…let me fix this for you:
“Fuck e-mount”
Your welcome.
What’s A-mount?
Im an A-mount user and this might be the time I will be biting the E-mount bait and finally purchasing an adapter to be used on A7S. Now what do I do with a99 when this new baby comes out?
You can shove it in the A-hole.
A is not a mount it’s a hole. Design is red and gaping.
S…stabilized à la ibis olympus way?
YES SONY FINALLY U LISTEN! We are super excited! Will this be the dream camera event photographers have been waiting for? 12 mp means better low light performance and easy time for lightroom to edit and process pictures! Fast AF and fast fps means we can capture every special moments in split second! It is compact and lightweight so it can be mounted on a glidecam for 1080p 60fps(downscaled from 4k) video for super smooth slow motion shot! I would jump up in joy if it can do 120fps.
Your next important progress is the battery life. Thanks Sony!
downscale to 1080p 60fps wouldn’t be possible, i don’t expect they bring a 4k 60fps videomode. But 30fps, yes.
As long as it has AVCHD 1080p 60fps in 28mbps or even better the XAVCS 1080 120fps 50mbps then I will be a happy shooter. I find no use for shooting in 4k anyways. My computer can barely process the 1000+ 24mp images from a99 and it is already having a hard time playing 4k in youtube lol.
I’m just so hyped about this new 12mp , fast AF and better low light sensor. Our admin does really know how to bring traffic here LOL
“Your next important progress is the battery life. Thanks Sony!”
Battery life with 12 mpix will be triple of A7r with 36.
Professor, of electrical engineering, I presume.
Close enough. Energy per shot (without flash or with externally powered flash) is primarily spent on:
1) image readout
2) image processing
3) writing the image to the card.
All of them are proportional to number of megapixels.
Of course CIPA is testing every second shot with camera-powered flash (if the camera has one) so CIPA numbers don’t show linear dependence – but in real life there will be almost linear one.
I hope you are right, we will know soon enough.
This might kill Nikon D4s ! This might be a bomb!
Now we know A7r=A7 resolution , A7s=A7 speed.
Been hearing about Sony killing Nikon and Canon for years. Get over yourself, get off your couch and go learn how to use your camera.
I love Sony but I know they will never kill anyone in the still camera race.
Not so far fetched…
“As a result of their innovations, the products that Minolta launched with The William Esty Company increased their camera sales from third, behind Canon & Nikon, to first in the U.S. marketplace.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minolta
Wow , an ad agency comment reported on wikipedia if that is not rock solid information I don’t know what is lol
They need to offer bitrates similar to what the g4 offers if they want to grab the potential buyers, since this camera is more for the enthusiast videographer.
Yes, we have enough of megapixels race (!) . We want low light 12 Mpix video sensor. Mos of the people expose stills in the internet. And there 5 Mpix is enough.
I just canceled my pre-order GH4 .
I will wait until Sunday to see the A7s specs before I cancel my GH4 pre-order. But if it is a 12mp full frame A7s with 4K it’s a done deal since I have all the lenses I need.
Oh in Tuscany! in my land. Have a nice trip!
Sony might have something here for the enthusiast videographers, Full Frame sensor, 4k, no line skipping. They just need to provide super high bitrates, if not idk if this will grab the attention of the pros since it already lacks lens selection.
Finally, worthy sensor for D700 replacement. Go get it Nikon!
I wonder how many Panisonic internal company emails were caused by SARs today? I wonder how many Panisonic managers and engineers visited this web site today!
This has to be an incredable punch in Panisonic’s stomach. I guess that they expected competition eventually….but maybe not this quickly.
A7s codec and any HDMI crippling will make or break this new Sony.
Cmon Sony….you are on the right track…victory is almost in your hands!
Dont mess it up by crippling this A7s with locked HDMI and 60Mbp/s XAVC. Give itcat least 8bit 100mbp/s XAVCs and clean 4:2:2 HDMI out!!!
I hope also it has some slow-motion video! Come on Sony! remember that compact, Casio EX-F1, which had a Sony sensor capable of 60fps burst in stills and 300-600-1200fps in video! Now with much better IQ!
Nobody has mentioned the card socket.
How much you wanna be that it uses XQD cards?
SDXC might not be what Sony wants for 100 Mbps XAVCs recording.
More to wonder about!!
I agree they will likely go XQD (there’s a prior thread) but UHS-2 cards are just as fast and backwards compatible so personally of hope that’s what they use. But it’s Sony so…
Oh boy, I love this forum. Any major announcement is preceded by a Big Bang leak of images and or specs around 48 hours before it is official.
Many of us complain in one way or another but still come back to either agree or disagree. However there is something in common: we like Sony products in different ways.
This is really interesting. I think Sony is doing quite well with the cameras recently. Keep it up!
So I’ll get about 5MP with a NEX lense…Need to come out with some light weight FE mount zoom lenses for video.
Vs. 3MP… that you can get by putting a mFT lens on this camera 😀
Here you go – the upcoming record holder in the DXO low light score.
It wasn’t too long ago (D3S) Nikon gave up on their 12MP FF sensor. We saw how it fell behind higher res sensors when compared properly.
This might do it, but not sure by how much of a margin.
Normal, it has the resolution of the first 6 mpix d70 sensor, and this one will have that again, unless it was a 3 layer chip with 3×12 mpix, it has not larger picture but better rendering all over, like Sigma’s Foveon.
Your last 4 posts are incomprehensible, are you retarded?
3 products in 6 month and now “One more thing”.
Commercially, I think it’s Sony strategy to test the REAL market response with A7r/s series and pave way for A9, which would optimize the need for Pro, Semi-Pro, Photographer and Videoman, at a reasonable price and unique hardware(like a user-friendly Foveon sensor).
As a A7r user, I really hate my AF but I don’t complaint Sony announce another A7s. My landscape friend don’t give a xxxx on the A7s. They love A7r.
Just give us “One More Thing”. Learn from Apple. Stay hungry stay foolish.
Hope A7s got a faster AF than my 5d3. Sony, you know, a lot of us buying cameras are Daddy with little kids and family. Support!
3 products in 6 month and now “One more thing”.
and still nothing most of us await.
Smells like Foveon.
If I were to wager a guess, 12MP is there to match that crappy NEX glass….
Not that I mind 12MP. If it does 4k video, focuses faster, and has good high ISO, it would be a win.
Still, I’m not getting into a system without IBIS.
1 – If it is a video-centric, 12 mp makes perfect sense. It has nothing to do with lenses. 4K 16×9 video is only 8mp. The FE primes can resolve 36+mp just fine. A-mount lenses can as well. I’d take that wager against you.
2 – Sony sells a system with IBIS.
Yup. And I own many grand worth of equipment in the system with IBIS. NEX seems the future, though, and I’d be sad to lose IBIS. It’s not clear if A-mount has a future.
Does the 12mp Canon EOS 1D C DSLR also have crappy glass ? Does the 16mp Nikon D4s have crappy glass ?
1DC is 18MP btw.
12MP (Bayer) is the lazy way of getting 4K from a camera… but this will be priced cheap so, it’s not that bad.
> Does the 12mp Canon EOS 1D C DSLR also have crappy glass ?
No
> Does the 16mp Nikon D4s have crappy glass ?
No
> What about the 36mp A7r ?
Yes
> Could it be that 12mp is perfect for a full frame 4K camera ?
Maybe
Dxo seems to rate the FE 70-200 quite highly. http://www.dxomark.com/Reviews/Sony-FE-70-200mm-F4-G-OSS-lens-review-Classy-contender it might be a good match with this new camera.
DxO also thought the FE 24-70 was pretty decent but that hasn’t stopped the haters.
DxO is not reliable about lenses.
Have you seen how Dxo Optics can better image quality of about every lens ?
Full frame empire!
if this was price bellow $1500 …. this will be nice
At least 18 mp, fuji full frame is on the way and I’m sure it will have 18 mp.
I guess 18mp is the perfect number for faggots like you.
That was so mature!
Are you sure that your sexuality insult is not a reflection of your own persona. Calling yourself after a character played by the ultimate pretty boy actor Brad Pitt is a bit , well dubious lol
Never meant it as an insult. I just guessed.
I guess it’s either you are, or not, not possible to be more or less. Maybe you should try to find an other word for when you want to disrespect people? Its not a bad word you know. Yo know, you are a homo to! homosapiens! hetero or gay… dosen’t matter. Stupidity on the other hand…
18 mp with uber crappy video as usual.
Luckily I’ve alredy sold my A7r and 55. Another pointless camera from Sony. Where are the lenses???
They keep building pointless cameras because idiots like you keep buying them.
I don’t make the same mistake twice. I’m not going to reply to your insult. You’re rude, I won’t lose time with you. 😉
For their sake I hope this is not a plain/Bayer 12MP FF sensor because that’s really not enough to produce a high quality 4K image. Maybe this is that layered business or a 42.6MP Bayer filter with binning to get 12mp/4k stills/video:
http://genotypewritings.blogspot.com/2012/04/more-resolution-without-going-foveon.html
However good the image capturing method is, im sure Sony will screw it up by putting some lousy codec.
Yes it is enough. In fact, it, cropped to 8.3mpix, is just right. With bayer filter, it is exactly what 4:2:2 video (which everybody uses) is made for.
Not right is not the same as not good enough. Have you read that I posted?
Again, by downscaling higher-res sensor, you are not going to get any better video in 4:2:2 (or any better JPEG which is also 4:2:2).
This is not about 4:2:2 colour compression, this is about spatial resolution. It’s also not the same as downscaling (resampling)… you clearly have not compared the method I suggested against typical downsampling (blinear, etc. Etc.).
Also go to any video forum and check how this makes the mentioned Canon cine cameras produce sharp images.
Please read again for the third time if you don’t get it.
dude you are suggesting that canon use stacked sensor technology lol, they don´t.
12 mp is perfect because theres no line skipping at 16:9.
Are you stupid in addition to being illiterate? Stick to a subject you know… nintendo wii perhaps?
Gynotypewriter is talking out his ass again.
Judging by your inability to reproduce spellings given right in front of you by pressing the matching keys on a keyboard, it’s pretty clear your IQ is below 10.
I read your pathetic “blog” and it’s total BS Gynotypewriter .
I’ve seen better come backs in xbox/ps/wii forums ROFL
WTF is happening to this forum!!!! shut the FU up!
Below 10 LOL, below 50 is already 5 standard deviations below and he’d already be one of the dumbest people on the planet.
Tyran was made redundant and was replaced by a gherkin. His mom hasn’t been happier.
How did you know? 🙁
Who asked for your opinion zipper head.
Was I even talking to you? You’re a little too over-conscious of yourself considering your IQ, aren’t you?
hey cunt, how about you gtfo from sar instead of being rude to everyone who disagrees with you.
Seen plenty better people soil themselves when they met me. So, don’t give yourself too much credit.
If you learned to ask instead of talking rubbish, you’d at least be able to reach average levels of intelligence in no time.
If you want to play the rude game sure I can play it too australian faggot.
No matter how lousy the codec is it would not be an issue with the level or work you’re doing.
You mean the video work that I don’t do? Lol.. bad logic day?
I use D4 as my main camera. I most likely won’t be upgrading to D4s. But this A7s, I’m getting quite excited. If it turns out to be what we are hoping, I will buy it!!! I’ll need to buy new lens but body is significantly cheaper than D4s. The price of D4s, I can buy A7s with 2 lenses and enjoy both world of Nikon and Sony FF. I also own a55, a77, nex7, I really like how Sony make their camera to differentiate from Canon/Nikon.
If you’re using it for video, then you only need the Novoflex Nikon to E mount, it works great, no internal reflections and will work with your Nikon G lenses 😉
I am guessing you don’t need a professional support network or near-bullet proof reliability and build quality or world-class AF tracking or one of the most comprehensive selections of native AF lenses anywhere…
Yes, this camera sounds cool, as did the A7 and A7R, but to compare them to a professional workhorse like a D4 is just a bit silly. Perhaps Sony will eventually develop a complete camera system, or they may just keep putting out camera bodies faster than lenses.
That said, I do hope Sony is able to do it. There is a huge opening for a smaller full frame system with a relatively complete set of lenses. Trouble is, if they don’t do it fast enough, it makes it much easier for a competitor to swoop in and get the sales.
Just because professionals with horse brains use cameras like the D4/D4s it doesn’t make the cameras workhorses.
Pretty much every manufacturer’s lens line up is usable on FE bodies. Some people don’t need AF or high FPS. Photography can exist without dudes in shorts all sitting in a box at a sports event, spraying and praying for good shots
And I would agree that anyone who isn’t a professional sports / press / wildlife photographer wouldn’t be very smart to spend all that money on a D4. The person who wrote the original post about the D4 must not be one of those photographers if he / she thinks this new Sony camera can meet the same needs.
Luckily there are all sorts of camera and lenses out there to meet every need. Pointing out that Sony (or Pentax or Olympus or Fuji) doesn’t have a camera that can compete with something like a D4 isn’t some sort of personal insult.
🙂 I think you totally misunderstood. I’m not replacing my D4. And I don’t need another camera that is similar to D4 (it would be pointless for me). That’s why I don’t think I will be buying D4s. Before D4s spec was officially announced, I initially planned on upgrading to it. Now that I’m not so interested in it after I had a chance to try it, it would be a lot more interesting to spend my D4s fund on something vastly different. Like I mentioned in my original post, I really like how Sony differentiate its camera from Canon and Nikon. If A7s turns out to be what I think it is, it would be totally worth invest in it and 2 or 3 of its lenses. I can picture myself using it side by side with my Nikons.
The D4 is an overpriced POS, made for posers like you who are willing to pay 4 times what it’s actually worth.
I do not own a D4. I have no need for that level of camera.
Is it really not obvious that there is a world of difference between a D4 or 1Dx camera and an A7? For 98% of photography, either will do the job, but the D4 is designed to be used in the harshest environments and for very specific customers.
All I was saying is that anyone who really needs the full capabilities of something like a D4 would not be looking to replace it with a Sony A7 whatever (or a mid-level camera from any manufacturer).
If they came out with 4K at 60fps and 150Mbps XAVC-S like the AX1 using the new
UHS-II SDXC cards that would be unreal but I don’t think Sony would do
that this soon.
Sadly I think you’re right. I hate to sound so negative but Sony is bound to screw up something about this camera. If they give us what we want we won’t have to but more camera than we need.
Is Sony gave what you want the camera would include a personal vibrator to shove up your ass.
you surely dont need UHS-II support to write 150Mbps. Thats possible with almost any Card today.
So almost any card will record 4K at 60fps ? I don’t think so.
that only depends on the bitrate used, not the resolution and framerate. and your 150Mbps are are around 20MB/s – most better cards are able to write that. nothing extreme required.
they are a bit late to compete Nikon’s D700 to my opinion. So, once more a camera with low resolution and high ISO capability, in simple words a toy for those who need such a thing, like D4 or DF from Nikon. hope this one at least has a correct AF system. Why do they not put this camera on the market with sensors in 2 mpixel steps, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20, 22, 24 mpix and so on, at least anyone will then be served like a king, except those who seek then for odd numbers.
IMO 12 MP is more for video performance and to have deep buffers. Even the D800 shoots at just 4 fps.
To refer to the D4 as a toy (the DF isn’t but it’s more controversial) simply makes you sound ignorant. The majority of people will never need more resolution than a 13inch print requires. 12 MP is plenty for those of us who don’t need to crop hard to fix shots.
Before i shake my head and criticize the “thing” I wait first what really is about. 12 mpix, 500000 ISO clean, could be of interest for some, specially those Hi ISO fanatics. If this rumor is true, it is anyway not for me.
Shitmael, you win first runner up for the most idiotic post of the day.
How rude!
She’s just the jealous type.
your the idiot, what he said was valid.
it would not have had clean 500000 ISO even if it had been 1 mpix.
12m…too low for comfort. In the end it looks like I’m still getting Sigma first
S.FYu, you win the award for the most idiotic post of the day.
No, this honor has to go to you. What contributions you’ve made to this post!
F##¤rs, all of you! Ok, leave it now.
Must take one to know one
S. Yu – congrats on getting the award for being the coolest troll on Net!
may be a 3 layer sensor like sigma?
s for “SIGMA” lol
thought about it too, may it be 3 layers ey?!
Please read the comments below, if you want to be amazed and amused about the prime quality of relevant comments on this website…
The troll quality on SAR has, unfortunately, been going down the drain as the number of rumors per week has also fallen.
NOT a new sensor. Nothing more than the Nikon D3/D3S/D700 sensor packed into a Sony a7 body. Don’t believe everything you read or hear.
I guess Sony thought “Hey Canon is milking the hell out of their customers with inferior 7-8 year old image sensors, maybe we should get on that bandwagon”.
The Sony “a” series camera that I purchase will have the a6000’s focus system or better and a NEW 54.+ image sensor(basically the ff version of sony’s 24+mp sensor) or better.
Yeah because that old sensor can churn out 4K video… Right.
Yeah Nikon are all about selling their sensors to others… Right.
about that sensor… 12mp = 4288 x 2844
4k = 3840 x 2160
you probably believe them when they say “4k is 4x the resolution of 1080p” when it’s not… just about double the resolution of 1920 x 1080p.
It is the sensor that is manipulated by new processors and algorithms.
They could have made the D90/D700/D3s/D3x with 4k if they wanted to.
that sensor surely cant read-out 4k video, nor will it be suitable for autofocus in a mirrorless camera. might not even be possible to couple it with modern hardware (processor, buffer etc.),
about that sensor… 12mp = 4288 x 2844
4k = 3840 x 2160
you probably believe them when they say “4k is 4x the resolution of 1080p” when it’s not… just about double the resolution of 1920 x 1080p
when you double the pixels in each direction, if course you get four times the amount and resolution. you can fit 4 full hd videos in that one 4k “space”.
It is the sensor that is manipulated by new processors and algorithms.
They could have made the D90/D700/D3s/D3x with 4k if they wanted to.
remember.. Magic Lantern was able to make the old Canon 50d able to produce raw HD video up to 1080p & 2k resolution, on the 5d mark III The Magic Lantern hack enabled 2k & 4k video.
Manufacturers holding back, disabling features is nothing new.
Yeah cause Sony designed and made that sensor for Nikon… Right.
did they?.. you see?… you learn something everyday.
Yes I learned a Nikon made sensor which can’t shoot 4k is being sold to Sony (who’s strength is in sensor manufacturing) and being used in a Sony camera. 🙂
Ha ha haaa.. it is not the sensor that is not able to shoot in 4k, it is the processor and or algorithms used that limits the abilities of the sensor. The Canon 50d could not shoot video at all… remember that? then came along Magic Lantern.
4K is less resolution than that 12mp sensor. Canon 5d mark III could not shoot raw video or 2k-4k video before the Magic Lantern hack.
The Nikon D90 – D3x could shoot 2k-4k video if Nikon wanted them to.
Yes but to shoot 4k you need a specialized sensor. Do you see Magic Lantern giving 4k shooting with any camera ?
And lastly look at the sensor dimensions. The D700 had a 23.9x36mm size while this has a 35.6 x 23.8mm size. Completely different dimensions means completely different sensor.
And since when does Nikon sell sensors to anybody ? Let alone a company which is the leading sensor manufacturer in the world ? 😛
he he he… those are basically the same measurements reversed. seriously… do you think Sony is going to spend millions developing a 12mp sensor? Sony & Nikon are in bed together (as are many corporations) so nothing is impossible. Magic Lantern made the 7 year old Canon 50D (which was originally unable to shoot video at all) shoot hd video… case closed.
Do you see the difference between 35.6 and 36mm ?? That is the difference between two different sensors. Sensors within 0.1mm are generally the same but such a big difference means an entirely new sensor.
Check out sensor dimensions of the 24 MP sensors Nikon uses. The D5300 and D7100 use the same sensor one without AA filter and one with. So dimensions are same.
D3200 is also 24 MP but uses a different sensor and so the dimensions are off.
And if Nikon and Sony are in bed together. Why is Nikon taking their business to Aptina, Toshiba and others ?
If after all these facts you still want to believe Nikon has made this sensor and sold it to Sony (making it the only sensor Sony has bought from someone !) then go ahead.
The Canon 50D can shoot video because the sensor was capable. The 500D uses the same sensor and shoots HD video.
ha ha haaa… do you BELIEVE the difference between 35.6 and 36mm? Sony can put a border around the same sensor and give it new dimensions . Thats how marketing and advertisement work. These companies do not practice monogamy, they are in bed with more than 2 or more companies regularly. I guess your one of those gullible customers who are easily manipulated by tricky marketing and advertisement.
Enjoy your Sony D3s err A7s.
Ha ha, so Sony went to all that trouble of adding a border just to fool you !!! Amazing !!! You must be really special to Sony for them to do that. 😛
Well I am not buying this camera. I am not a video guy.
The only gullible person here is you who knows nothing about sensors but doesn’t let that stop you from making some ridiculous statements with zero facts to back them up.
Its all hearsay from your end. I have backed up my statements with facts –
Fact 1 – Sony is the largest large sensor manufacturer in the world.
Fact 2 – Nikon gets Sensors from a variety of vendors including Sony, Aptina and Toshiba.
Fact 3 – Both the D700 and A7s sensor size is different.
Fact 4 – The D700 cannot do 4k video but the A7s can.
Fact 5 – The D700 was launched in 2008. Besides Canon no one else uses such old sensors least of all Sony. All new Sony releases are with newer sensors.
But don’t let the facts get in the way of your feeling that both are using the same sensor. 🙂
“Don’t believe everything you read or hear”… So i don’t believe you.
Can it shoot at 4k fps? 🙂
I wish find new lense tomorrow, not a camera for video without a full prime set
Maybe the 12 MPix is the compromise needed to read out a full frame sensor at 60fps without overheating. That is, if the camera does not subsample.
3860×2880, a 11.1MP resolution, should be easily cropped to 4K. So probably they chose a relatively lower MP count for the sake of easy cropping and of course, speeds. I hope it turns out really good and will bring a new ‘Speedy FF Mirrorless’ League.
Another E-mount ? 🙁
yay
Surprised and confused. I seriously believe that the camera might just aim for the film production rather than still image. Although it sounds exciting that a low pixel density
camera may come but I think Sony may not lower the price of A7S. It is because the sensor should be made in a relative lower quantity which means a high per unit cost. Besides, if it is able to record in 4K, the memory module should be capable to record birate over 100mbps. The heat generated from the card write-in might be a problem from the compact body that may affect the noise reduction performance. I think that’s not a good idea to maintain the same body design with such a high demanding work flow. And the battery life seems not enough using FP50W in such high data rate process of 4K shooting.
My speculation is Sony may mime the concept of GH4. The most valuable part might not be the body of A7S but the peripheral module such as XLR plug, SDI 3G output, with extended battery pack. Of course, RAW recording from external device is a must for this advance camera. It may also provide moderate high speed recording up to 100-120fps in 1080p to compete with GH4(never go beyond FS700!).
Referring from the sensor of Nikon D700, the pixel width might be 4256 pixels. In order to provide a more efficient read-out, there will be a slightly 1.1x cropping when recording in 4K (4096 pixels). But the problem is still the same as the depth of field is not easy to handle for such a large sensor. The other problem is that Sony is still weak in lenses option. FE lenses are limited that A7S might heavily rely on Canon EF lenses. The A-mount lenses might help but not much film production equips with this lens series.
So let’s wait and see how Sony positions this camera. I always feel that Sony provides a
better specification in video recording comparing with Canon(e.g. 60fps vs 30fps,) but she just gives not enough effort on lenses option and education to the users to better utilize the video feature of the E-mount series. The gap between amateur and professional is a way to far when Canon does a better job on this issue(EOS to cinema EOS). Sony has lost the potential market long time ago to protect the professional line such as FS series and F series. Just hope Sony learns something about this issue.
Depth of field is very easy to handle, just change your distance to subject or use different aperture. If you want to use smaller aperture, you can compensate the light loss by using higher ISO. I don’t understand what’s so difficult.
I know the difference between E-mount and A-mount
A-mount Sony bought it
E-mount they made it
Do the math !!!
Come on !
Thats true but hides the real picture.
A mount is a complete system (lenses, flashes, accessories) with a few holes in the lens line up.
E mount is a starter system (Few pro zooms, few but expensive primes). Has little to interest serious photographers and is better suited for soccer moms and amateurs looking for portability with good IQ.
That’s kind of a narrowminded way of looking at it. E-mounts can produce professional images easily. I’m starting to wonder what people consider “professional” nowadays. Its not really the camera, its the person shooting it.
Look maybe I was being harsh but lets face it IQ is not the issue here.
I am a small time pro and even I will never consider the E mount for any serious work. I might get one for casual stuff but never for serious work.
A lot of my pro friends think the same way.
Some of my friends are thinking of the Fuji or Olympus system as the number of good quality zoom lenses are plenty there. But hardly anyone is convinced with the E mount lens offerings. Slow consumer zooms with a few expensive f4 zooms and even more expensive primes doesn’t convince a lot of people.
And less said about the Sony flash system the better. Poor battery life, slow AF (aside from the A6000) and pathetic tracking performance sum up the E mount offerings.
I convinced a friend to pick up the NEX 6. He loved the IQ but the kit lens was pretty sucky and so was the AF. He got a Olympus PEN and was much happier.
Because the camera makes the photographer right?
“That’s a gud picture, you must have a gud camera.”
Give me a break.
Lower megapixels does not produce cleaner images. A downsampled higher res image is cleaner. DXO wrote an article about this.
Absolutely true. Probably 12 MP is more to do with smaller file sizes for a deeper buffer and higher fps rates.
This is basic physics. Even I wrote about it before dxo did theirs: http://www.flickr.com/photos/genotypewriter/3012247230/
granted, mine isn’t for the same type of audience.
Hi picturewow that means for 36MP SENSOR if I choose to set the MP at 15MP it will cleaner?
Dynamic range is another different matter though.
What exactly do you call a down sampled image if not lower mega pixels?
Even if a specific sensor displayed less noise when it’s output was downsampled it doesn’t change the simple physics behind the relationship between photosite size and light gathering ability.
It’s highly dependant on the pixel level quality of any given sensor.
It’s not an absolute rule by any means. Some sensors still exhibit more noise even when downsampled and you also defeat the object of having more pixels to begin with. The Sony NEX-7 vs 5N comparisons were a good example of this. Owners were quick to point put that their 24mp images were NEARLY as clean as images from the 5N when scaled down to the same size but what’s the point in that?
It maybe costs 5000$… Will remain only a product from the shelf. Only dreams of ordinary mortals. If it cost $ 7-800 on the camera body would start to be a fair and reasonable thing
greed
Could this mean a global shutter at last? 🙂
Dream about it. Sony PMW-F55 price $28,990. super 35mm sensor with global shutter
yeah top dollar of course…….
12?
12?
12 fucking megapixels?
Ah well, not buying that then.
The connection between megapixels and final image is less precise than promotion and pixel-peepers would have you believe. I have 16x20s from my 6mp Nikon D70 that look excellent when displayed next to prints made with my D300 12mp sensor, the 16mp Nikon D7000 and Sony NEX-6. I haven’t made prints from my A7, but I am sure that, when displayed in similar size prints, its 24mp images won’t likely be visually different from the D70s. I expect a modern A7s sensor to produce visually equal or superior images.
Those who’ve purchased the A7r to get a higher density sensor may have gained some additional cropping ability of speculative routine utility, and a lot of unhappy issues betraying the inadequacy of high-pixel sensors with their favorite old (and new) lenses.
16×20 inches? cm?
Normal people use all photo sizes in cms like it was always the use when we where in the lab. The standard photo was 9/13, the large size 13/18 and A4 is 22/20 so a piture of 16/18, next size is 18/24
So cocain and photography share the use of the metric system all over the world? I get the stuff until you mention A4, an A4 is not 2220cms, Well, thanks for trying.
LOL!!!!
we shot down Nikon with the Df and their ridiculous 16mpix FF, we will literally kill Sony for this one, but, as usual, it will sell and some will like the ISO 500 000 performance. All what is on the market is made to satisfy someone anyway, even if we do not see any reason for such a nonsense.
12mp = greater dynamic range, greater contrast range, faster operation.
I’d rather a 12mp image with more range and contrast than 20 with less.
I just read some comments and now I am convinced that humankind is doomed – please god, kill us all.
I was convinced of that long ago. I am still waiting for the giant meteor to drop.
Why not a 24 or 36mpix with chiite ouf shooting small raw format?
12MP for Video or Crop mode for high fps is fine.
But, I need more pixels for still pictures, 12MP per color is also fine!
Does it have global shutter with a flash sync at 1/2000 or faster?
How about OSPDAF? With larger pixels can it focus even faster then A6000???
For stills 12MP is mostly useless for my needs.
Er, why’s that?
Yay, a third camera to go with their 5 lenses….something doesn’t seem right.
Right on the spot mate 🙂
for serious video work that not really a limiting factor because most people tend to use manual third party glass anyway
sounds great I wish this rumor is currect , the 12mp sensor may be a bit low res but still the lower amount of megapixels means that each pixel is larger moreover it may even have a bigger bofer and more FPS if not even talking about low light preformence…
any lenses for it???? sony doesn’t even have any cine lens for this camera!!!
To my knowledge Sony makes very few Cinema lens period. But since most “cinema” lenses are MF put a PL adapter.
so, I buy full frame mirrorless because it’s small and light and then I use an huge heavy and expensive adapter + lenses.
SURE. makes sense.
better to get a propper dslr in that case. duh.
If the small and versatile body can do the job of the big and bulky dslr, why r u making so much noise?
Its the overall package that it’s shrunk in size. Duh.
not sure if you are trolling or if it’s just sarcasm.
using an adapter is by definition a very bad idea that compromises image quality.
also adds cost weight and size.
it’s not small when you add an adapter that you are forced to use in conjunction to heavy and big lens. makes no sense.
it’s NOT shrunken in size.
A D600 is smaller and lighter than a A7 with a LA-E4 adapter. Also cheaper since doesn’t require a 400$ adapter in order to have a full range of lenses.
you’re not wrong, but try to use a Voigt or Leica, even Zeiss M mount lens on your D600 and you’re in the sh.. If you can live with Nikon and some hybrid glass, that is all ok. Then, all mirrorless have the advantage that in normal situtaions, let’s say an A7 with a 35 mm standard lens, you carry less weight around all day, even with some Leica glass it is lighter. You do not need the La4 adapter unless you want to use A mount glass. A normal adapter for other brands weights just nothing, and the pleasure with A and NEX cameras is manual focusing. Maybe Nikon will find out some day that focus peaking is a simple must in actual cameras. They did not even find it necessary to include it in their Df.
keep your glas and stfu. don’t know why you care so much since you are the best photographer in the entire universe.
go play tetris or something.
who started the game? Oh yes, before i forget, I hate Tetris …..
You have the best cameras in the universe as anyone can read, so both together we could do great things. Welcome to the club then, smartass
I shoot in clubs. I can’t use the A7. There’s no wide angle zoom. it’s too heavy with adapters and those don’t allow to use OS,
You have a showcase for your cameras ?
yep, i have one, it is indeed a glassed front dry storage. you need those in the tropical regions to keep humidity out. I call it the show case.
I am using tiny Voigtländer glass on the a7. Works like a charm.
didn’t realised that Voigtländer made an AF ultra wide zoom with FE mount.
maybe be you could enlighten us all.
-.-
So..why should super-slomo-monster SONY do one time the right for normal money?
still-stand-picture = photograph = many pixels and as the marketing said it the folks
film = a 8 mpx on a f5 is much and there you go first with 12.000,-usd $ in and get the body.
2014 we have a new world-also affecte of 4k-and-sony-marketing. this is devlish-because
normaly you first start with the top of the chain, FILMBIZZ at least the people out, who should
will want maybe buy… but in this days we have a palanless time and other new incoming, who did it ( if the bmc c 4k is it maybee… okay if i see it from my point/ alexxa/ c500/ f65/ f5/ so on
you get MUCH for LESS MONEY/// but mention not forget lenses, but with 3500,-$ for one you
are good in biz..) so the GH-4 of Panasonic / and the expensive Cine35-cams of them..yes/ and
the power of kinereaw-4k cams and so on.
SONY can couls would do it right..maybee but so often not.
money for nothing… okay.
and
dynamic range think about a 16 bit 4:4:4 and 24 -28 more stop range.
yes it is since fiction…one day.
on the other side smartphones push in. ( about the films and pictures we must not talk
maybee somtimes one has the luuk of quiete hand…)-but if you pay only 15,-$ omth and
get the 4k-film-foto-machine WHY TO BRING IN 1500 ore more usd $
WHY? see… the market is more dead the companies want to say it.
a 199usd$ 2k cam taht rocks in 10 bit- taht would be a gasp from sony..
but never bee..
not easy to understand anything of this…
Its sony whats to undetstand heheh
can you repeat this in clear text sometimes
Not everyone reads cloaked Bible code.
But the upping of the photo makes the 16 2:12 and mandulated dooney whopper.
and
if you increase the metaphysical ostrich of the kinetic mandolin you could trade places with the farmer’s cow!!!
WHY NOT MAKE MORE GASOLINE WITH ARTICHOKES?!!!!!?!?!?!
Hmmmm… Very interesting. I was dubious but this sound intriguing, if it means it has ultra clean high ISO Nikon Df beating performance it is only a good thing.
agreed
Some ppl…
You give more MP , they rant.. Gives a small MP, they rant..
There’s no satisfying these lot, is there?
User Group (for updates and sharing without all the advertising):
http://facebook.com/a7Susers
http://twitter.com/a7Susers
http://vimeo.com/groups/a7s
Could the “s” also stand for small? I think of a patent from Sony last year. There was a full frame sensor inside of a nex 5 body.
It is fine if the 12MP camera price at USD700
There is no correlation of price to mpx – you just show that you are a muppet if you think this.
Kids, please go to learn a bit more in the school!
The difference of A7 and A7r not only pricing, it counts into MP too.
Boris was very rude but he is correct. Price and MP don’t have a big correlation. The D4 is much more expensive than the D800.
The A7r has more mag alloy than plastic which contributes to a higher price. In addition the sensor has gapless micro lenses for a better performance with manual lenses. All these add to the higher price. The actual sensor cost difference between the two isn’t going to be a terribly big difference.
The main problem with FF sensors is that the silicon yield is low. Unfortunately as things stand the A7 is currently the cheapest FF camera and my bet is that this new A7s will probably be in the price range of the A7r or higher.
Possibly off-topic, but there are lots of A99’s on ebay right now.
So if this new 12mp camera is for videographers (can’t imagine who would buy 12mp sensor camera in 2014 for stills), what does the S stand for? Smut edition?
They could just develop a mount instead of the old ccd matrices would put and lost the first chance.
This camera is a bloody joke. smallest ff camera but with accessories it’s bloody huge, External recorder needed is a waste of money as they will be worthless soon, and so will this toy camera.
no a6000 focusing? g.t.f.o.o.h.
This camera is a cash grab by sony.
It has a 12!… 12MP sensor!… in 2014? not even a LAYERED 12MP sensor? and NO WAY do I believe for one second that that 12mp sensor is new… IT’S OLD!.. ONLY THE PROCESSOR AND ALGORITHMS & VIDEO CODEC ARE NEW!
I wish I had one here so I could shit on it.
the S stands for ShitHeads, because that’s who’s going to think this camera is a great purchase in 2014.