Preorders:
Sony Alpha a7II (Body Only) for $1,698 at Amazon (Click here), BHphoto (Click here), Adorama (Click here), SonyStore (Click here).
Sony Alpha a7II with FE 28-70mm OSS Lens for $1,998 at Amazon (Click here), BHphoto (Click here), Adorama (Click here), SonyStore (Click here).
Sony 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 G SSM II Lens for $1,148 at BHphoto (Click here).
A couple of friendly sources 😉 told me the new Sony A7m2 will likely ship from late January (max early February) in USA and Canada. This is the same shipping period scheduled for Europe. They also told me no American and no European store was informed about the launch of this camera. That explains why there are no proerders available yet.
The Chinese site Weixin reports that A7m2 preorders at Sony Store China (and likely also other countries) will start on November 27.
For now only store accepting preorders is Amazon Japan and is listed at Digitalrev. As soon as it will available on Sony Store US, Sony Store Germany and so on I will post it here on SAR!
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266 Responses
1st blood!
So how was the holiday?
where?
You are not far away from your 1000th first bloods. 🙂
lol…
cannot denied Sony did excellent job by bringing IBIS into the mirrorless FF. also cannot denied Sony still a troll too, always purposely ignore some stuffs supposedly comes with this A7II such as hybrid AF system (A6000) and 120fps 720p (XACV S) in A7S lol…
The AF system looks to be quite similar to A6000 apart from frame coverage actually. Mostly it seems to be software / processing upgrades but it still looks like a significant enough update from the A7 in this regard.
you say it, quite similar means not exactly the same we seen in A6000. making no sense if this hybrid AF system only available for PRO mirrorless FF. This should be the new baseline for every newer camera which included this A7II
Well to be exactly the same they would have to have the same sensor, as the AF ‘system’ is the sensor (and processor)… which is a bit tricky considering one is full frame and the other is crop.
Point is, AF isn’t a ‘thing’ they plonk in the camera and say “go!”, it is a part of the sensor, it requires a new sensor, if there isn’t one… it doesn’t get A6000 AF. Oh and A6000 AF isn’t ‘all that’, it’s pretty ok, but lacks finesse.
Admin, I believe the information you received about no USA store being notified about the launch is incorrect. B&H had their A7 II Explora information page up and running on the same night as the Japan announcement (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/news/just-announced-sony-a7-mark-ii-mirrorless-camera)
Interesting that they chose to announce it now, just before a peak sales season. Will it freeze their own sales until then, no one wanting to get stuck with buying last year’s fashion darling? Or do they think it will freeze sales of the competition while people anxiously await this year’s magic bullet, eventually enjoying it for at least a few months before Sony starts slashing its retail price?
No problem for Sony, their FY ends March 31th …
I’m so glad they figured out how to incorporate IBIS into it!! Now do the same with the A7R II, and give it a better shutter!
Sony right clicked Olympus then copied and pasted into A7II 😀 lol…
And we should give a fcuk becaaaause?
You saw 5-axis and decided it’s the same thing. Talk about copy and paste. It’s not like Minolta brought the first stabilized sensor and that Sony are the only one with FFIBIS since 2007, right?
Where is the A7R II & A7S II release specs? C’mon admin pull your finger out
It’s fairly easy to anticipate what the specs will be. The one thing that surely must be included is EFCS for the A7R, which should be possible as Nikon have managed it on a closely related sensor.
I guess the video will include XAVC (for the A7R), but I don’t see any other major changes. Just tweaks. It will have to be done fast, as I think an awful lot of people will hold off buying the A7R (in particular) in anticipation of IBIS.
The question remains. Why did Sony need a blitz like that. Is the competition has something big/competitive up in their sleeve for December?
If someone was going to purchase an A7 and now an A7II, Sony still gets their money, just a little later. If someone was going to purchase another brand’s product and now switches to Sony, win for Sony. If Sony had delayed the announcement post-holiday, now everyone who purchase an A7 for the holidays, would be upset that a mkII model was released right after the holidays – everyone say a big Thank You to Sony for being so nice now. A corporation has no obligation to be “nice” after all.
I agree. Nice gesture.
Smart, not nice 😉 Sony simply is saying: there’s something interesting on the way, don’t waste your money now.
You make no sense. Read Tom V’s post that I agree with.
if this wasn’t deliberate, I would fire the marketing people.
So for video use, there are many / most instances where stabilization is NOT desired, but for settling in and locking into a shot, it could be quite helpful. I wonder if there is a way to enable IBIS when needed, in a controlled fashion, or if it is something that can only be setup up between shots?
(SR5) A9 PRO Mirrorless FF to be announce at CP+ 2015. Ship on March! Price about $3499
Major features:
– 28MP APSC newest sensor
– 5 axis IBIS
– global shutter
– weather sealed aluminium body
– 4K internal, 8K external
– 256.000 ISO
Where does this comes from, What’s a good things it is.
I wouldn’t buy your FF ML featuring Samsungs half format sensor. 🙂
Sorry it’s APCS
Where are my reply, that’s weird.
It’s available for pre-order in Australia with the same January expected delivery. RRP is $1999, same as A7 and places are preordering for $1599 which is cheaper than A7 was at launch. Also comes with LA-EA4 or Metabones adapter.
Lucky folks!
does anyone know when it will be released in south korea?
WE HAVE AWAKEN THE SLEEPING GIANT.
Canon has reacted.
All AOS M mirrorless cameras have been recalled from stores and Canon is expected to release new profesional quality mirrorless AOS M cameras possiply early January.
In addition to working with M series lenses as I predicted they will also be fully compatable with all Canon autofocus lenses built since 1987.
An adapter is available and unlike the laea4 adadptor it has no optics and no mirror…it is simply compatable via an extension tube like device.
As I have been saying….over and over again… Sony will need to compete against Canikon high end mirrorless systems, and thier systems will be fully compatable with thier vastly greater lens selection.
Unless Sony finds a way to be fully compatable with Canikon glass the will not challenge Canikon dominence like they think they will.
In fact Canikon will instantly become a major mirrorless force due to thier superior lens selection.
This will happen..probably in January.
Wow you really have stopped taking your meds. Please someone get Barry some help… and a bib!
You continue to make assinine comments like this because you would rather do that than deal with the truth.
Most of my predictions have come true..despite your critisism.And most are highly liked once they do come out.
High res , full color pixels, ibis on E mount and other innovations I have repeatedlyr been hollering for…long before most other people..are here or almost here….but you continue with peanut gallery like comments.
Currently I am speaking out about the need for full compatability…few other people are speaking out about it .
This is one more of my suggestions that Sony would be wise to listen to…even though my suggestions..as they usually are..are being made before people like you are ready for them.
So we get IBIS and now it needs to be FULLY COMPATIOBIBLYNESS with CANONONNIKONONNENESS otherwise what? Barry gonna cry? Not going to happen Barry. Sad for you I know. Oh and ‘the sleeping giant’ already ‘woke up’ and created their grand statement for the mirrorless market after ‘carefully assessing the market for 4 years’ and dropped the turd that is the EOS-M, which incidentally was of course ‘FULLY COMPATIOBIBLYNESS with the great catalogue of Canon lenses’… if you can call it that. And no, you have been talking about STACKED sensors Barry, because you GUESS and have ZERO knowledge about anything at all really. You didn’t even know WHY mirrorless cameras have a hard time focussing DSLR lenses, yet make all these broad sweeping comments about ABSOLUTE DRIBBLING NONSENSE. Take your meds Barry and get some help.
Barry says “Whaaaaaaaaaaaa! I want my mommy, abortabort not being nice to me, Whaaaaaaaaaa!
Full compatibility is impossible in marketing and business world.. No way Canikon will allow Sony to use their wide selection of glasses perfectly, otherwise Sony will conquer the entire market because all you need is 1 Sony body and you can use hundreds of Canikon lenses on it.. So when Canikon releases a new lens, it would benefit Sony too, but why the hell Canikon wanna kill themselves? This will surely be brought to court with Canikon vs Sony
Barry, can you make predictions for my eurolotto numbers?
Yes
12, 56, 08, 89, 26……will not win.
Well, I hope Canikon will not come with IBIS
Barry from Delphi. The new oracle. 🙂
Capital letters is shouting.
I agree that if it is true that they recall EOS M from stores is a sign on the horizon.
Did you have any doubts that Canon will make their AF lens range compatible with a new ML? This is a must in order to be competitive from day 1.
I assume that it was a pain in their butts when they recognized that many Canon pros went onto the A7 train as second line equipment.
It will for economical reasons not be possible to come up with a complete assortment of M-lenses, so compatibility and adaptibility with/of legacy Canon lenses is more or less a must.
I as a Sony loyal customer and A7 (and future A9) fan appreciate serious competition as competition is always good for further innovation.
>Did you have any doubts that Canon will make their AF lens range compatible with a new ML? This is a must in order to be competitive from day 1.
Sony still hasn’t achieved this. There’s no way to make an A-Mount lens work with A6000’s AF system. And IBIS has just only been added.
Oh dear god. You people… seriously.
Barry actually makes a lot of sense. A mirrorless system that would be fully compatible with DSLR lenses (working natively with OSPDAF with a simple extension tube) would be a killer.
And how do you think that might happen? Yes a mirrorless camera that can see through time would also be ‘killer’. All the ‘work around’ options have drawbacks, simply because DSLR lenses are designed to be focussed by PDAF modules, the very best way to do this is to use them with their own PDAF module when using them on a mirrorless camera. Currently Sony are the only ones with the technology for this with their SLT designs. Canon have Dual Pixel AF, but this, like ALL the OSPDAF stuff to date is not as effective as SLT. DPAF does not work with all lenses and does NOT work perfectly with Canon’s entire catalogue of lenses, DPAF works best with STM lenses, of which there are about 7, 2 of which are full frame.
A lens is currently optimised to the voltage, speed etc of the cameras operating system for optimum performance…and that differs for differren camera systems.
Two way this can happen.
The adapter can contain electronics that convert the voltages, speed etc that the camera does not understand into voltages, speeds etc that the camera does understandk…easy to do.
Alternatively the camera can recognize the lens parameters and convert them to parameters consistant with the cameras opperating system.
Sigma has a usb docking port for thier global vision lenses that allowsfirmware updates to the lens.
Such a device can be used to update the electronics of mount adapters.
When the camera manucacturers change thier protocalls..thereby crpling 3rd party lense..this would always keep the lenses ahead of the cameras.
Of course Sony could easily come up with different solutions that are better than the ones I suggest.
Oh my, this is even more naiive then the other posts. barry stop talking about electronics. It is very clear that you lack evena 6th grader’s understanding of it.
This. He learned some new words the other days from Mr Hogan and now thinks he knows more than ever before… when really he is just more confused than ever before. I never thought I would say this, ever in a million years… But I actually just feel sorry for him now.
Did you copy and paste this Barry from someone else? Be honest, it’s the internet, I will know. Too bad you took the wrong information about the wrong topic and posted it here as if you know what you are talking about… Sad.
Truely simplistic view on lens designs. A USB dock cannot replace chips and focus motors.
You say “I do not believe there is no way to make them compatable. They are only incompatable because they were deliberately made incompatable for exclusivity” and then “And how do you think that might happen? All the ‘work around’ options have drawbacks, simply because DSLR lenses are designed to be focussed by PDAF modules”
So which is it?
DPAF is a way to make classic DSLR autofocus in video-mode, it’s a different story.
Uhm what? You are quoting two different people, I think your Disqus is messing with you there.
Oh… sorry, my bad.
There is a hypothesis on local forums that Sony may be updating their existing line up with SSM-II to make them more compatible with OSPDAF. 70200G2 still can’t work with A6000’s AF via LA-EA3, but maybe it will with A9?
A-Mount lenses worked with A99’s OSPDAF somehow (although that was different, it was only auxiliary there).
I really have no idea what’s possible and what’s not anymore, Sony managed to really change the game a lot recently. I wouldn’t be surprised if they pulled off something like that too.
That could definitely be something to do with it, but I would think that the actual optical formulas would need to change for it to be effective. Yes some motor changes will probably help somewhat, but accelerating are retarding large pieces of glass very quickly is not that easy to do.
The points on the A99 are mostly used for tracking information, I don’t believe they actually are used for anything that controls the movement of the lens in any way, but unlike say pure CDAF info on sensor (or colour detection tracking type features) the on sensor PDAF provides depth and directional information between focus points.
Thing is, there is actually very little ‘wrong’ with SLT as a solution for adapting legacy lenses, they get the AF system they need when you use them and then that system is not present when you use native lenses – simple really. Plus the SLT system can be updated without having to update the whole camera, or the adapter can have other specialised features just for when using A-Mount lenses. I don’t know about you but I use different lenses for different types of shooting, sometimes I need something that can follow something that moves quickly, other times I don’t, so I keep different lenses around right? Well in this case I keep A-Mount lenses for some things and E-Mount lenses for others and use what is most suitable at the time.
A9 will presumably have cool AF… and LA-EA5 too… and you pay twice for both. And only benefit from each half the time. And the SLT adapter still loses light (can just buy an SLT camera then). I don’t know, the idea of buying a new FE body and new A-Mount lenses to use with an SLT adapter just seems weird to me.
More like a stop-gap solution, until all FE counterparts of A-Mount lenses are released. Or maybe the Barry option is possible somehow (still a temporary solution… even it worked with LA-EA3, it’s still a less sturdy construction, probably worse weather-sealing and having to use an adapter slows down changing lenses. They’d have to release all native FE lenses at some point anyway).
How much do you think you are really paying for the ‘AF in the A9’? Well you buy the LA-EA5 if you need DSLR like tracking, or you don’t if you don’t… Surely that makes some kind of sense? I mean you get the camera cheaper because it doesn’t have an SLT setup in it and then choose whether you need one or not and pay for it accordingly.
You lose light any which way, on sensor PDAF or SLT.
It’s about having the best of both worlds without having to buy two different cameras, as I have been reminded recently many people here (and elsewhere) have both – They have both for a reason.
>Well you buy the LA-EA5 if you need DSLR like tracking, or you don’t if you don’t… Surely that makes some kind of sense?
Not really… Sony think they can make a DSLR-quality AF without a mirror, while providing more accurate CDAF, Eye-AF and stuff. That’s the only way mirrorless makes sense to me, if it has full capabilities of a DSLT and adds some advantages of its own. If I still need an SLT mirror to focus, I’d just stick to an SLT camera.
By ‘advantages of its own’ I mean primarily ISO. The notions of ‘compactness’ and ‘versatility’ are vastly overrated: FE lenses aren’t more compact, and the most versatile system is Canon’s.
>You lose light any which way, on sensor PDAF or SLT.
I was going to disprove that by looking it up on DxO… but A6000 seems to have only a marginal advantage over the A77-II.
Well in this case… even if Sony manages to pull off DSLR-quality mirrorless, it will still only be ‘as good’ as a DSLT.
In fact… if you lose light through OSPDAF, then you again lose even more via an SLT adapter? So it’s an even worse solution than I thought.
And still a few years wait until we get wide-aperture lenses we can use without a lousy adapter.
Your reply is a bit off track and a little difficult to follow through the many topics covered here, but I will give it a go (and try to fully recall the context):
Sony doesn’t ‘think’ it can make anything of the sort, which is why A-Mount is still around and why A-Mount adapters exist. SLT was a technology developed quite specifically to meet the demands of using a live view type camera with DSLR lenses, something that at the time had not been achieved well (and mostly still hasn’t other than by Sony).
As for ‘well if I still need SLT for fast focus I might as well stick with an SLT camera’ – That’s fine enough I guess, but there are times when you don’t need SLT focussing as well as that mirrorless can improve focussing at a very rapid rate, when used with mirrorless lenses. SLT is only required for lenses that were not designed for mirrorless. Developing a camera that uses both, but you only ‘pay’ for the SLT component if you need the SLT component makes a lot of sense. On top of this you can upgrade the SLT side of things without having to upgrade or change you camera, considering better AF is normally a big part of ‘upgrading’ this is a nice position to be in.
It would certainly have full capabilities of an SLT when used with SLT lenses and then expanded capabilities with newer lenses designed for the newer style of AF. So unless you never plan to buy a new lens ever again and going to stick with the A-Mounts that you have, then this is a plus.
Yes, putting PDAF on sensor does seem to drop performance. Putting it in front of the sensor also does.
‘Still a few years wait until we get wide-aperture lenses we can use without a lousy adapter’ – Depends what lenses you are talking about really. You say a lousy adapter after just telling me that SLT is better, which is confusing to say the least.
Personally I prefer native lenses even though I use a bunch of A-Mounts, mostly because I prefer the accuracy of them to PDAF lenses and don’t shoot all that much (fast) moving (shoot plenty of moving subjects of course). I am sick to death of front focus / back focus issues, on every DSLR / DSLT camera I have ever owned (Canon, Nikon, Sony, Pentax). It is something I am completely and utterly over, but for times where I need tracking there is nothing better than a decent PDAF system. This is why one camera with both capabilities is insanely important to me, at least until tracking can be done on-sensor to the levels available these days with dedicated PDAF systems.
Hmm… do you see A-Mount continuing on as a kind of “SLT option” for E-Mount bodies?
Now that E-Mount has stabilization, and if they release LA-EA5 with more serious PDAF (LA-EA4 is actually lousy), is it possible that kind of a modular system will emerge, with E-Mount bodies, native lenses, and for those who aren’t satisfied with mirrorless AF, SLT modules with A-Mount lenses?
I thought if they pull off fast mirrorless AF, A-Mount’d be dead, because why keep 4 product lines…
I mean, FE is getting closer and closer… IBIS, fixed ergonomics, improved battery life with a grip, A6000 AF… but at the same time Sony is releasing 24-70G2 and 16-35G2 for A-Mount…
I’m honestly confused.
I think they are setting the wheels in motion. I think SLT has advantages right now and will continue to be developed until mirrorless can completely replace it AND they are developing / will continue to develop A-Mount compatibility using SLT tech to prove future integration / compatibility.
I wonder if we’ll ever see an FE 500mm f/4 or such 🙂
I mean, “mirrorless can completely replace it”, it’d make sense, right?
I guess this depends more on demand, how many of the A-Mounts do they ship? How many E-Mount versions would they ship if they bothered to make one? Would it be worth developing for them as a brand and vs how many they would actually sell. If the market was there, then most definitely!
Canon is also perfecting a process to turn a lump of coal into a perfectly cut diamond. Professor Animalsbybarry is assisting, an announcement shall be made sometime in January.
We won’t share the kool aid with you. You’re already high 😀
I wish I was…. 🙂
I do not believe there is no way to make them compatable.
They are only incompatable because they were deliberately made incompatable for exclusivity.
A mount lenses perform exactly the same funtions as E mount lenses and Canikon lenses.
Parameters like voltages, motor speeds, ids etc are different only to keep the systems proprietary.
What was done by choice can be undone by choice.
This post clearly demonstrates how little you actually understand about electronics and autofocus systems.
In general, no. Stepper motors vs ringtype/micro motors and different communication chips to begin with. Especially the not so new A mount glass cannot support the fast communication required for current hybrid systems. Same goes for not so new Canon glass.
Here’s your song Barry:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjI7VeIA7ZI
What makes you think that it’s possible to make legacy lenses compatible with all features of new mounts? Advanced hybrid AF like that on the RS6000 requires a very tight communication interface with the lens, and it’s been a problem for all camera manufacturers.
You can see an example of that with the micro four-thirds mount. There are AF compatibility issues with previous four-thirds lenses designed for DSLR bodies, and even MFT issues with lenses designed for CAF working fully with hybrid.
It’s extremely likely that Canon would hit similar technical compatibility issues with their legacy lenses. None (except, maybe the most recent) will have been designed with the requirements of hybrid AF systems. I would therefore expect some loss of functionality or performance on many legacy lenses, even though they don’t have to deal with screw drive lenses.
Duott drank the same kool aid as Barry.
>What makes you think that it’s possible to make legacy lenses compatible with all features of new mounts?
Nothing really. I just agree with Barry that it’d be a killer combo if they somehow pulled it off.
Blabla.
Even if they do as described, none of that great legacy Canon glass will focus fast and smooth, despite dual pixel layout. Only STM glass will.
If the G7X and EOS M are any sign, they have a long way to go to bring their non DSLR’s up to speed in general. Not to mention the fact that their live view feeds from their sensors has been lagging in quality for years. Let’s see them do a good quality EVF first.
The fact is Canon is actually recalling thier current EOS M cameras from stores.
Clearly thes early models were just testing the waters and we will soon see a new serious mirrorless camera from them.
Look at the giant red flag..Canon is actually recalling a new camera line to introduce a better new camera line to replace it.
Clearly the do not want the current EOS M cameras around for some very good reason.
You’re confusing hearsay with fact. Just because a rumor website states it to be so, doesn’t make it confirmed as a fact.
Did you ever think it may be possible (if true) they are being recalled because they suck?
They are recalling them to introduce something better.
Clearly the quality of these earlier models will not is not something Canon wants to be judged by or they would not take the unprecedented step of recalling them.
If you are a camera collecter however you may want to buy one of these recalled cameras and never unseal the box.
Yes as in the case of the Nikon D600 recall which resulted in the miraculous D610. 🙂
Silly Canon fanboi…
I am a Sony user..curently..but I am not oblivious to what others are doing.
Personally I now need a new lens like the Sigma 150-600 sport.
I will buy whatever camera I need to to be able to use a good . Long lens .
That may or may not be a Sony camera.
It appears that Sony will be making the best new camera..but I need to put a lens on that new camera amd that is what makes buying Sony difficult.
Sigma 150-600 Sport? Why haven’t you mentioned that before?
Is that what they did in the US, recall them for something better? Or are people reading too much into things, hoping it ‘means’ something? Barry, I honestly think you would be better off with a Canon, you clearly think they are the ones who are going to innovate and have the best products, so please make haste for your nearest Canon dealer, they are probably setting up the displays for their amazing new mirrorless right now AND there will be a product manager there who will tell you ‘nudge nudge, wink wink’ about all their product plans! Go, quickly before you miss them!
+ 1000
Yes they ‘recalled’ them out of the US 2 years ago as well… TOTALLY a sign of something AWESOME coming out of Canon REALLY SOON.
Sure…..let´s see if the new Canon mirrorless can be unique with 4K and 5-axis IBIS….
Calm down Barry. Calm down. However, I’d certainly agree that if Sony (or, for that matter, a third party) can make an adapter that is fully compatible with Canon lenses, it would be a massive gain for Sony. (The third party adapter idea is a long shot, as it’s very likely that such an adapter would need camera firmware support. I suspect it is probably not possible to make a Canon mount lens appear as a completely compatible native E-mount one. There are probably behavioural differences which can’t be masked).
However, look at it from Canon’s point of view. To them, such an adapter would be a massive problem. It would remove the major barrier to Canon users migrating to E-mount. So it’s a really big risk. As usual, the market leader has the most to lose.
One little issue of course, is if Sony did produce such an adapter (assuming they can get the engineering to work), would it be open to legal challenge? Things like interfaces are often tied up with all sorts of patent, licensing and copyright issues. The legal issues can get complicated. Whilst Canon might not get too concerned over smaller competitors, the could get more aggressive if they feel under real commercial pressure.
And yet Canon’s track record with the EOS-M is that they actually produced less native lenses than any other mirrorless manufacturer – canon.co.uk lists only 4 and that’s 2.5 years since the launch!
SLR lenses are designed to work with phase detect autofocus – the big heavy glass is fine when you jump to the focus point quickly, but do not work well when using the incremental movements of contrast detect – that’s why Sony added the mirror into their adaptor so that it could still focus quickly.
Sure Canon could release a camera that steals the FF mirrorless market – but in theory the EOS-M could have done that with the APS-C mirrorless market too and yet it flopped.
And if all that were true (not going to happen and I think Barry is hallucinating) the sensor would still suck.
Barry, you talk as every reasonable man would think. But marketing is the real barrier, not technology.
But thumbs up, go on.
You left out 10 axis stabilization.
WTF is an AOS?
Barry, Barry, wake up! You were dreaming, it’s time for group.
Barry doing his best Admiral Yamamoto impression: “WE HAVE AWAKEN THE SLEEPING GIANT”
Correct…they are his words.
Barry, don’t mean to be rude, but please: COMPATIBLE / COMPATIBILITY, not compatable / compatability
Wonderful, we might have the EOS-M3. The same old 18mp APS-C sensor, now without the banding. Still the same awful noise and lack of DR, but at least without banding. I cannot wait to see this camera, if it’s as amusing as the last two it’s going to give Canon bashers plenty of fodder.
No! IT will be the 70D sensor, so AF will be improved a little… with some lenses. It will have a new dial and be able to use the add on EVF from the G1X II, plus a new more pro price. This is the equivalent of the ‘big’ update for the 7D II that was what 6+ years in the making, this IS Canon getting serious about mirrorless 😉
So what? A 70D is as good as the best, can you prove otherwise? Do it out of your own experience, do not post links to internet “experts”.
No! Impossible!
Hahaha yea… they are so short on money they have to disassemble the piles of unsold Ms to recycle their parts. Get real. The rumor is an obvious fake. The M3 will come for sure but that doesn’t have anything to do with the current nonsense that’s going through the web.
The M3 will have AF worse than any Sony mirrorless, it will have a sensor worse than any Sony mirrorless, it won’t focus EF lenses as fast as a Sony mirrorless with LAEA2/4 and it won’t have IBIS. And the best part is that any high-end mirrorless from Canon will cost the same as an A7II.
Canon has lots of lenses but many of them are kinda shi++y. There is only a handful that someone concerned with IQ would actually use, so having hundreds of lenses to choose from is not as great as some seem to think.
Anyway, all I see in the comments these days is discussion about marketing strategies and business… Is this a business rumors forum? Of all the aspects of photography we could discuss, you guys chose the most boring topic.
That said, I think Sony has been making some great stuff. I’d really like to see what the next gen A7s is like and this rumored A9. The a6000 is awesome but I’d really like something more robust for my backpacking trips. Actual weather resistance is a feature that is often overlooked despite how obviously important it is. I can’t be the only one that likes to shoot in real life conditions, right?
I personally still wouldn’t put my money on the the big two’s mirrorless cameras. Just look at what they currently have it’s a joke of a camera. Canon’s mirror less will probably replace their rebel line and nikons probably will still be CX sensor size. No full frame mirror less in my crystal ball. They are just too worried about cannibalizing their dslr sales to make any bold moves.
DSLR / DSLT exist only as a vestige of film photography and serve no usefull function in digital photography.
It is 100% certain that all DSLR cameras will be replaced by mirrorless.
There is absolutely no question about this fact…the only question is when.
Canon and Nikon will replace thier DSLR cameras with mirrorless and they will produce mirr poo rless cameras of better quality than any DSLR or mirrorless camera they currently produce.
Your crystal ball technology is even older than film and clearly not accurate.
I totally agree with mirrorless being the future no doubt if not Sony is screw. but as early as January for Canon or Nikon to come out with something to compete against Sony is a bit far fetch especially with what the M camera was. Their mirrorless foundation is a bit too weak. They still need a generation or two to be where Sony is now.
Canon has a high resolution new technology sensor they have been working on for a long time now…possibly Foveon like and I would not be surprised if it is mirrorless, or at least has a mirrorless version.
Nikon will use whatever Sony makes however I do not think it will be introduced as soon as either Canon or Sony.
If Sony introduces a color sampling sensor …APCS …it will give them a substantial advantage over Canons Fovion like sensor.
Not enough of an advantage however to overcome Canons lens advantage…therefore if Sony is Canikon lens fully compatable they will take the lead…otherwise Canon will maintain the lead.
Sorry, but no. DSLRs serve a lot of useful purposes in real world photography. I would show you the pics I took today, but I cannot do that in a free forum. I could not have taken any of those pictures with electronic toys, anyway, and there you have to trust me.
There is nothong DSLR can do that mirrorless will not soon do better.
Howevee todays mirrorless cameras are still mere toys.
Yep. Toys.
Yeah … that’s mere rubbish.
.
You’ve been b-tching for years that lack of IBIS meant that a mount lenses are not “fully” compatible even though we both know that is bs since that is not a function of the lens. Either way, Sony has done some spectacular engineering and achieved IBIS on only the second generation of FE bodies. So now you are b-tching about the SLT in the adaptor despite the SLT in your current camera. I am left to conclude that you really just want to complain. No one here cares if you prefer to purchase a low res canon camera, if it works for you then it is fabulous but your arguments truly have become pure, cynical trolling as the things you wish for are delivered (ibis) and you still complain and the things you predict are proven wrong (your mythical sony rep prediction).
Furthermore, you have been complaining that Sony had the audacity to release the e mount system and show it more love than a mount. You tell people that if you buy into Sony they will go changing mounts again and screw you over (paraphrasing). Now you are praising canon for discontinuing their current mirror less system because it was so ill conceived and starting over (even recalling cameras from stores).
Do you need massive resolution to compensate for being so blind?
There are 3 seperate issues…
A mount users…here Sony has done sone really good stuff they have with the introduction of ibis provoded a safety net that thier stuff will remain usefull and allowed a transition fro A to E mount…probabably the laea4 will even see an upgrade to make it faster.
The second issue is taking market share from Canikon…to achieve that will require Canikon lens compatability.
Is it fair to put such a burden on Sony that Canikon does not have to deal with…no…but if Sony wants to be #1 that is the burden they will have to bear.
Thirdly there is the issue of lens selection..this will not be resolved overnite..if ever..but lens compatability will serve the function.
E-mount has the greatest selection of lenses in the world. There are enough AF choices between a & e mount (new & legacy minolta) and practically every other lens can be mounted. Plus market share arguments are for fan boys not photographers. You’re grasping at straws.
Wow, you are sounding more and more like the Apple haters on the net. Canon is expected to have a new mirrorless entry in January, based on withdrawal of products, and this new product will be so amazing that it will destroy Sony; conclusion : this will happen… probably…
In this long string of comments about mirrorless compatability many of the comments site the difficulty of achieving that compatability.
Mayby I have suggested how it can be done or mayby ….probably….. Sony can come up with a better solution.
If Sony wants to gain Canikon market share a solution will be needed…otherwise Canon will continue to dominate the market .
Sony is working towards that goal, but we must keep our expectations realistic.
Canon FAR from dominate the mirrorless market. Canon dominate in DSLRs, so when people ask what kind of DSLR should they buy people say Canon. What do you think they say when asked what kind of mirrorless should they buy? In mindshare Canon have already lost the mirrorless game, nobody in their right mind will recommend a Canon for a mirrorless at present. Will that change? Did it change for Sony in DSLRs? No. Think about that for a minute, no matter how good Sony DSLRs were, Canon were too entrenched. Now the exact opposite is true.
Sony is so far ahead technologically now with the introduction of the A7II that it almost seems impossible for Canon or Nikon to catch up. Photographers looking to replace their DSLRs are buying Sony mirrorless cameras. That’s not likely to change.
The ONLY reason Canon is in the position it is in today is because they fully embraced AF, they ditched their old platform mercilessly and went full steam ahead with AF. Nikon were ponderous and Pentax were even worse. They both suffered massively for their mistakes and never ever regained the market. Canon and Nikon are Nikon and Pentax right now, Sony is Canon. Olympus (and Panasonic) are Minolta, first to the fore but ultimately not at the finish line.
Nikon was hardly ponderous. And the reason Canon could afford to ditch FD and move to EOS in 1988 was because they had a very small percentage — relative to Nikon — of the professional market at that time. Nikon had no choice but to balance the long-established legacy needs of its professional user base. They couldn’t afford to drop the F-mount.
And equating Pentax with Nikon and saying the both never recovered is ridiculous. Pentax never really recovered by the late ’90s, it’s true. Meanwhile, Nikon (along with Canon) continue to dominate the camera market in raw sales.
You kids need to learn your history. 😉
Yes and no. I think you may have misconstrued what I said so let me rephrase: Nikon were on top but they were relatively slow because they had to support a large user base, Canon jumped in with both feet and ended up on top and that has not changed. Sorry but it hasn’t, Nikon play second fiddle to Canon. Pentax were much worse off but their biggest stumbling was in the digital era.
Sony are like Canon was back then, jumping in on mirrorless while Canon is like Nikon, being slow and ponderous. In this scenario Nikon are like Pentax to a degree. It is history repeating but the names are switched around.
Sorry, but only in the imaginations of Canon fanboys does Nikon play second fiddle to Canon. More pros still shoot with Nikon. That is fact.
Care to back up your ‘facts’? At any rate did I say ‘pros’? No.
No, l don’t, actually. I’m not going to do simple research for you. Do some digging yourself (beyond a few biased websites, that is).
No, you didn’t say pros, I did. Unless you’d like to define what you meant by “…second fiddle”?
Im a poor that shoots with Nikon and I guarantee you, at least in the USA, Canon pros outnumber Nikon pros at least 2 to 1 and in some genres, especially sports and wildlife it’s more like 10 to 1.
So far ahead, how, exactly? Sure, they make great sensors, they have 4K, and they’ve put 5-axis IBIS in this camera. But…
– They are behind in autofocus performance
– They are behind in ergonomics
– They are behind in build quality
– They are behind in system support
– They are behind in native lens offerings
Until they sort those issues — assuming they ever do and don’t just change-up their entire lineup once again in a few years — they’re not much of a threat to Nikon or Canon yet, particularly given that DSLR sales continue to decimate mirrorless sales in relative terms.
And again cherry picking and nonsense. Let’s just brush over the stabilization and the 4K, and discuss the huge difference in build quality, because mirrorless are falling apart.
Truth is truth. What you believe won’t change the facts. Deal with it.
Lol.
That is one point of view, the one Sony would like to believe.
On the flip side…Canikon, and more specically Canon currently owns the pro and dslr market.
They have the glass, and thier users have thier glass.
They will not give that up for a new Sony camera.
If only Canon is fully compatable than Canon will keep thier marked share and take away Sony mirrorless market share..even if Sony makes a better camera.
Barry let me ask you something, do you like using your A-Mount glass on your E-Mount camera body? Simple enough question.
Well that’s a good question in general.
Do you see any difference / compromise when using your a-mount natively or via adapter?
I quite like it, it certainly suits the modularity I am after. Though the question is aimed at Barry because I know what he will say, which is that a) he doesn’t HAVE an E-Mount camera and that b) he wouldn’t use his A-Mount lenses (probably a Sony 75-300mm) on an E-Mount camera with adapter. To which I then reply “what makes you think people will be so overjoyed to do the same thing with a Canon mirrorless then?”… To which he won’t understand and we will move on. Playing Barry is a bit like playing chess 😉
Anyway, I like the adapter, works fine for many things, having a few more AF points would be about all I could ask for, or even if it had just 5 but nicely spread and reasonably sensitive at the moment I treat it like single point.
Sure why not!! Soon e-mount bodies will be similar to the size of my a77ii 😉 looks like the a7ii is in the right direction hehe
I have not and will not buy an E mount unless it is fully 100% compatable with A mount lenses.
Alternatively ..since I now find myself wanting to buy a lens that only comes in Canikon I would probably now also buy a pro level E mount if it were fully compatable with this lens…because the camera will never leave the lens.
I most certainly will not buy an E mount it Sony does not resolve these issues.
“That is one point of view, the one Sony would like to believe.”
Said the guy pitting an inexistent product from Canon against an upcoming Sony and calling it a winner.
Awesome! Now that we cleared that up, what’s this I am hearing about an A9. I cannot wait to hear the specs on that. Any news on that cameras release date?
I think the average consumer of the “into” DSLRs doesn’t care wether the camera is mirrorless or not, if Nikon or Canon goes mirrorless and keeps a similar form factor (DSLR-looking) they’ll retain their popularity- if they adopt IBIS they’re almost certain to keep their market share healthy. The enthusiasts like ourselves who read reviews and forums are the ones who look into specs but in the end, if Canon/NIkon adopt quickly to mirrorless and make them slightly smaller with IBIS and able to use current lenses- I see no problem………if they take awhile they will lose pros and enthusiasts to Sony.
Agreed. And they’ve lost PLENTY of pros AND enthusiasts already.
“…lost PLENTY of pros…”
Define “plenty”. And have you got stats to back that up?
Really? How many plenty? 2? 3? 4? (I am stretching it here)
I reckon they may lose some first-time buyers of the nerdier sort, but not those who are actually into photography. Still, a mirrorless with a large mount and consequently small wide angles might get C and N into a better position.
dslrs are a dying breed…i say in 5 yrs only the hardcore pros will use them…other than that, everyone will be going to mirrorless
Barry please calm down! “Mayby” you are a better tech guy than the Sony squad or “plobably” not! Is it really Barry writing today?
Why do I keep reading this about Sony being far technologically?
Let’s make a quick comparison between an A7 and a decent DSLR:
1) Autofocus: no context, the DSLR is faster and more accurate (yes, also more accurate).
2) Manual focus: the DSLR has far better focus control because of the optical viewfinder, which can be fitted with a special focussing screen. The A7 only helps when you want to magnify the centre frame. Peaking is neat but far from conclusive.
3) Burst: the dslr wins hands down.
4) General responsiveness: the DSLR wins.
5) Mirror slap: the Sony wins hands down.
6) Build quality: no context, the A7 has wobbly mounts and plasticky parts.
7) Sensor quality: Sony may have a slight edge on Canon at the lower ISO, but not on Nikon. Internet “experts” like to blow this out of proportion, but the difference is barely noticeable in real life shots. The crippled raw files may also work against Sony. In general, these things are of little relevance unless you shoot in a lab and measurbate with the results.
8) Radio flashes: only Canon has them proprietary. Phottix for Sony are coming out now.
9) A7: battery life is lousy
10) Anti flicker system: only Canon 7D2 has got it, and it will probably spread to other models. This is a real tech advance if it works well.
11) Stabilisation: the new Sony will have an edge if it works well and if the subject is still – but then, there are tripods in all sizes. Not an issue for many photogs.
12) Compatibility with 3rd party lenses: Sony has the edge, but Canon is also compatible with many other brands (including Nikon). Certain lens designs, chiefly rangefinder designs, do not agree with E mount. The differenc3e boils down to: one cannot put a Minolta lens on a Canon but one can put it on an A7. Not a big deal for me.
13) Size of lenses: the stupidly narrow E mount does not allow for small wide angles a la Biogon. Bad design. It’s a draw.
14) I am leaving out the huge gap in lens assortment, because that is not a “technological” point strictly speaking.
In a nutshell: marketing people like to waffle on about “technology”, but I clearly see that DSLRs get me the shot I want, even in difficult circs, and the A7 simply fall very short.
troll lol
I agree with most of his points. I played with A7 and though I loved its IQ but almost all rest was lousy and poor experience – handling, menu, shutter loudness, weak AF in low light, unconvinient centered EVF, grip, battery, unbalanced with larger lenses. I felt I hold in hand rather a tech gadget, than a true photography tool.
Read what he said, carefully this time. Stating the truth is not trolling.
The Sony A-Series cameras still have serious operational deficiencies that prevent most pros from using them. Will they get better? Of course they will. If anything, all the noise Sony is making right now will move the whole industry forward technologically as others keep watch and begin to introduce improvements of their own … yes, including Nikon and Canon.
he didn’t need to come here to say those stuff 😛 this is a Sony forum to hear all the positive things that come 😉
Read what he said. Full of bad generalizations and cherry-picking as usual.
That he omitted certain details — whether intentionally or not — does not invalidate the points he did make. To sum up: Sony cameras still have significant shortfalls, and Nikon and Canon DSLRs are under no substantive threat from mirrorless (anyone’s mirrorless) cameras at this moment in time. Maybe down the road … but not now.
He not only omitted things, his points are often factually incorrect or badly generalized. And, yes, Sony cameras do have shortcomings, just not really the one she mentioned.
As to DSLRs vs mirrorless and who’s winning that’s a big discussion, but given that most people only rely on some market share to defend their points, it is not really worth the effort to talk about it.
hi,
read this
http://www.eoshd.com/2014/09/market-dslrs-shrinking-dramatically-canon-nikon-blame/
Yes, I’ve seen that chart — and others like it from CIPA — before. What it shows, among other things, is that despite their significant decline, DSLRs are STILL outselling mirrorless cameras by more than 2 to 1 … and that mirrorless is largely flat-lining.
He didn’t have to come here to say all that 😉 its a Sony forum hehe where all the positive things about Sony cameras are talked about 😉
What a trolling post!
Truth hurts, huh? lol
What a stupid answer…
This post lost me after “Why…”
1) false on the second point in general terms
2) absolutely false. Most current DSLR’s do not even allow for changing focus screens and even when they do, they still fall short to single button magnification plus peaking
3) depends, a 6D tops out at 4.5 fps.
4) depends. In LV they tend to be slow in comparison still
6) depends on the models compared
7) DR is not of little relevance to many exploiting the benefits of those extra usable stops on (almost) a daily basis, compared to Canon
9) again depends. If you use your Nikon or especially Canon in LV regularly, the tables actually turn in favor of Sony, where Sony has up to 50% extra battery life in LV than recent Canon cameras.
11) Typical argument from someone who hasn’t used IBIS extensively. There is overlap, but there are many areas where tripods are no option or simply undersirable. you would know that had you had both.
But thanks for taking the time to share some old fashioned untruths and half truths.
Thanks for the “insight” – feel better now? Use the tool that suits you. It’s the art that counts at the end.
While most here will probably accuse you of being a Canon troll, I’ll actually respond from the perspective of someone that shoots with Nikon, Canon, Sony, Phase One and others. I use both the A7R and D810 professionally everyday and the others (including Canon 5D3, 1Dx, 1D4, etc) often enough to be very capable with them. You have some good points but also some serious misunderstandings:
1. Faster yes, more accurate only on moving subjects, on stationary subjects on sensor AF is more accurate as it does not have any inherent tolerances to deal with that an AF system that is in a different location than the sensor has.
2. Not even close and your statement “The A7 only helps when you want to magnify the centre frame” clearly shows that you don’t know the A7 since you can move the magnified point anywhere in the frame for extremely precise focus anywhere. This one really is no contest.
3. True for the a7 against some, not all DSLRs but there are mirrorless cameras that are much faster than any DSLR from a burst rate perspective.
4. That is very subjective without defining what general responsiveness actually is.
5. Well since there isn’t a mirror… but the lighter mass of the A7 bodies does make it more susceptible to shutter induced vibrations than most DSLRs are.
6. The a7S and A7 II do not have the wobbly mount. That really isn’t build quality anyway. A lot more goes into it. You didn’t specify which DSLR, there are many DSLRs on the market with much cheaper build quality and there are some with better. Your generalization is inaccurate without specifics.
7.Agreed, Sony is needlessly crippling the RAW files. In many cases it doesn’t really matter but in some it does.
8. Agreed
9. Agreed
10. Actually the D810 also has anti-flicker
11. I don’t put much credence in stabilization either as I am a tripod shooter but for some it makes a big difference
12. I think Sony and other mirrorless cameras have a large edge here.
13. Why should Sony design a mount specific for the Biogon???
14. Agreed
Thanks for taking the time EJ. Still:
1) I shoot moving things.
2) What you say is true, but you need time to move the mag point, which is too slow for me. You can also move the mag point on Canon DSLRs in live view, with the joystick, and I don’t like it, either. A precision matte screen does not need that.
OVFs are still better for me, even though I think it’s Canon and Nikon’s weakest point. An old Leica R has a much nicer viewfinder: that should change.
To the various trolls / disturbed teenagers, probably the usual paid shills posting under many names: LOL. I am enjoying your frustration. Feel bad and get drunk, it’s Saturday.
You just wrote a bunch of nonsense and the vast majority of your points got completely destroyed, yet you feel bad for others? Haha, you already started drinking then?
Nerdy keyboard fauxtographers (you) and photographers (me) belong in two different worlds… I still enjoy your pain.
Yeah, yeah…
The troll talking points for this week, sensor and body envy does tend to get the creative juices flowing. Unfortunately is made up of mostly half truths and outright BS. Very entertaining though.
Oh please. Yes you bought into the hype of a warmed over 7D that was 6+ years in the making. You have ‘read’ some ‘stuff’ on the internet and now feel VERY informed to tell the world how they have it wrong. Really rather entertaining! So please, do go on, tell us how wrong we are and how we should have the most overpriced steaming pile of camera ever to hit the market (including that Leica 60).
Oh and quick summary:
1) wrong
2) so so wrong
3) wrong
4) vague but still wrong
5) obvious, but rather pointless attempt at giving the MILC a ‘win’ in your oh so unbiased overview
6) wrong
7) hahaha you can tell a Canon troll by the way they justify their sensors suddenly ‘it doesn’t matter’… like any of these things matter
8) sure
9) Another ‘fact’ you read on the internet, well done you
10) bahahahaha! Dude if this is the ‘big’ advancement of your cruddy little 7D II it’s time to give up on Canon. Oh and by nature of mirrorless design, this could be written into to every mirrorless camera since the beginning, if anyone ever thought it important enough to do.
11) Have the edge? Yep, another way to ‘downplay’ the advantages of one system, much like your sensor debate. How about this: hands down, no contest, not even worth talking about?
12) edge? They are on completely different planets. No contest.
13) wrong
14) lens assortment? Well the Sony has just about every lens ever made… How about the Canon? Canon can’t even support their previous mount/s… Oh but the Sony can. Then there is the ‘AF lenses’, yes Canon have more, because they have to make three iterations of everything then make it with IS to try and milk more money out of their stupid paying customers.
In a nutshell there are always someone like you who comes armed with ill informed ‘internet facts’ and ‘gonna tell these upstarts what-for’ with every new Sony release. I’m just sorry you chose that steaming pile as your weapon of choice, but don’t worry someone will be over soon comparing the A7 II to the Nikon Df… It is going to be a fun week!
Yawn, another gadget seeker…
But at the end of the day, when it’s all said and done. Canon Sensors Still Suck!
I love them. I am sure you have plenty of experience yourself to counter that, right paid nerd?
coming from a 6D user. Glad I made the switch to Sony A-mount last week! You can view my Canon shots here and the most recent Sony shot too 😉
http://www.flickr.com/balancedphoto
Some are nice, some are not; however, they are all static, so you don’t need a reflex. Your subjects wait. You don’t need a DSLR then.
PS if you want to throw things out of focus, you need to guide the viewer to where they should look. IMG_0092, for example, fails at that. I would cast some white sidelight across their trainers to guide the viewer. Maybe an off-camera flash at 75 to 90 degrees from the right?
IMG_0017-2: the girl is pretty but the huge distracting highlight (the sun) above her head takes my eyes away.
In many other pics, are you sure you need the colour? The baby for example, does he need the colour? Removing redundant information is another powerful tool.
Sorry, I am done.
Thanks 🙂
I’ve only been taking pictures since April this year. Still got lots to learn. Criticism helps 🙂
I am sorry for sounding pedantic 🙂 Get a phottix odin and play, it changed my world. I am not very old either!
😉
show us your photo. oh wait, just iphone shots?
Lol
The usual nerd with a fake name, as usual, cannot provide any evidence… Nerdhhhhh!
Here you go Mr. Troll https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z4m4lnjxkY
Reposting this, as the last one was “deleted because of spam” (nice one, admin).
I’ll mostly focus on the half truths and untruths in your post:
1) false on the second point in general terms, as it depends (for example static: no).
2) absolutely false. Most current DSLR’s do not even allow for changing focus screens and even when they do, they still fall short to single button magnification plus peaking
3) depends, a 6D tops out at 4.5 fps.
4) depends. In LV, DSLR’s tend to be slow in comparison still
6) depends on the models compared
7) DR is not of little relevance to many exploiting the benefits of those extra usable stops on (almost) a daily basis, compared to Canon
9) again depends. If you use your Nikon or especially Canon in LV regularly, the tables actually turn in favor of Sony, where Sony has up to 50% extra battery life in LV than recent Canon cameras.
11) Typical argument from someone who hasn’t used IBIS extensively. There is overlap, but there are many areas where tripods are no option or simply undersirable. you would know that had you had both.
But thanks for taking the time to share some old fashioned truths, untruths and half truths.
Rubbish. Another fauxtographer. What a waste of space…
At least you manage to sum up your posts.
I agree on all or most. The battle here is between gadget and tool. Whatever the tools here say, I always prefer the tool to the gadget 🙂
I have nasty experiences with Sony consumer products, too: a telephone and a laptop quit on me just after the guarantee was over. The projector is great, instead. This camera falls into the telephone category, so I am not going to touch it with a 10 foot bargepole.
You prefer a tool because you are a “tool” and a troll.
Maybe “the tools here” means untermenschhen like you 😉
Oooooo, I wouldn’t want to enter a context that you were in. You are so smart. No context.
I know, you’d better stay out, you are just a knurd…
Hahahahahahaha
kid, real man look at statistics. dlsr sales dropping, mirrorless sales going up.
understand?
Mirrorless is struggling to catch up to DLSR so far.
However, Sony seems pretty confident they can change it with A9, which may turn out to be the first DLSR-quality mirrorless.
We’ll see in February.
There are many camera blogs currently online, but I have to admit SAR is the most informative and entertaining. Always first with latest news, and lively discussion intermingled with humor.
I agree. You could wait forever for any worth wile canikon news!
Ok fans, here it is: The nomination for douchebag of the week;
Tibor Kádár
It was a close competition with fellow douchebag LOL Troll being first runner up. Lets have a big round of boos for Tibor The Troll!
I’m pissed, should have won the contest.
LOL looks like he has a mouth full of Shhhhhaving cream.
Douching is a disgusting American habit. Do you come from the cradle of decivilisation?
Tibor looks like he just swallowed a goldfish.
Wow, today it’s a real fun reading some of the comments! Some trolls should visit 43rumors, they will feel less lonely and in a good company. :))
(Poor Barry, got smacked hard by almost everyone today..)
Ah yes m43, where they are under the delusion that there m43 sensor is better than a sony full frame sensor – LOL
Nothing different from those saying that a “full frame” is better than a medum format sensor 😉
Where are they?
Where are the others?
Nobody is really saying that FF better than MF, MF just costs 8x times more than FF, while 43 costs same as FF 🙂
M43? The thing that costs more than FF and performs like a compact?
Yes!
Not my problem…
Don’t bash ALL of m43. Get Pen E-5 and PanaLeica 15mm or 25mm, walk around in all kinds of light… and if you still want to complain after that, it is ok then 🙂
The E-5 is almost small enough as a carry everywhere camera. For me it is perfect for this purpose and as back up. Plus now it is getting cheap.
Well, the setup you mention is the same size (and costs more) as an a6000 with a 35mm, which has an EVF. It is also the same size as a RX1. Although, I certainly wouldn’t complain about shooting with an e-p5.
… almost. I went for the E-P5 because of the 5-axis stabilization and better options for HDR. The prices for both are similar (at least for me). One of the Sony 35mm does have OS, but I think the 5-axis is better (plus can be used with multiple lenses). I look at it as a handheld, discrete set up… so Olympus won by a whisker.
However, yes, I almost chose something close to what you mention. If I could wait, I’d see if Sony puts the 5-axis into something like a6000… then the equation changes again 🙂
However, I am tired of waiting for something better always just around the corner. I was happy with the quality of the E-P5 and the lens selection. In about 5 years I will do this again.
I was just teasing 🙂
The e-p5 is a great camera. The fact that we are basing our choices on extra features such as IBIS says a lot about what our cameras are capable of nowadays.
great, everyone you went for the cheap e-p5. ok, time to switch to mirrorlessrumors.com . please dont ever come back here. we all know money is the problem for you.
Cheap?
Poor m43, this new Sony gadget is going to murder it. I hope you have plenty of cash for the switchover.
I don’t switch, I’m adding a MM 😉
Mangled Minx?
Minging Minx?
I am going to buy to m43 camera from panasonic: IQ is more than enough for my purposes, the AF is much better, cameras are better thought out, 4×3 suits still photography better than silly 3×2.
LOL…. LOL was bashing Sony all the time for not having a focus scale on their lenses, now Sony added focus indicator and Zeiss produced manual lenses, now he bashes Sony for AF.
I said when the a7R came out that it was a straight kick to the nads of Canikon. It appears they are still doubled over and the screams of pain just go on. 😉
Especially yours. Lack of material?
http://carnagepro.com/
They are pretty crappy, got anything better?
let’s see what you got? i’m waiting…
Wait on, nobody serious shares their pics on a free forum. Yours?
However, I can tell you one thing without even bothering looking: you are a waste of space.
Interesting. You ever heard of Flickr, Photobucket, I could go on.
I ran web sites for so long it’s almost easier for me to make one than go through the Flickr etc nonsense. Mine is dead simple and 1000px wide is what you can steal. I print so I’m not all that concerned.
Just ignore him. He usually posts comments under different names to have some kind of reaction from people.. 🙂 Ignoring him is the worst thing you can do to him.
So where is your stuff big boy? We are waiting.
Why should you be concerned? Are you tense?
Keep waiting, if you can buy a Sony you can also wait for my pics… Sukker.
You got nothing but talk. A poor excuse for a photographer.
And you? Make us lauch, come on with your crap. I am waiting.
I have no idea what you are talking about.
keep trolling…..keyboard warrior
Some great work Chris, ok Tom lets see some of yours.
They are so bad you should not speak at all – just sayin’.
YES! The screams are: WHERE are the lenses! 😛 LOL
Plus, as an afterthought, I still wonder WHERE are reasonable bracketing functions for HDR? Bracketing with timer release? Yep, ALL, still absent. Have they removed the RAW compression btw?
Sony cameras ARE NOT ready for prime time.
I am excited at this and if it performs well, THIS will be my FF camera (I was thinking Nikon D810 previously), but maybe in 2 or 3 years… or if I have to wait longer, or if all the other things are not fixed, I may still go with Nikon.
Stick with your Iphone, it’s all you will ever need. And stop dreaming.
Yes, dopey, I will take your advice… maybe… after I get an IPhone. I’ll stick with Nikon for FF, for now. See here: http://www.neocamera.com/list_lenses.php?mount=nikon&sort=focalwide
That’s a great list! No adapter needed.
That raw compression is troubling. I just read an article on museums using Sony a series cameras for reproduction quality imaging, and it was roundly dismissed in favor of d800e because of the compression. Causes artifacts in high contrast artworks, like book pages.
If the big time means professional work, nikon is just laughing at Sony.
Roundly dismissed by measurebators on the internet… who would have thunk it?
Oh snap! You got me. Except that it was an article in a technical trade journal, but witty reply nonetheless! I’m stinging from your rebuke, really I am.
It was dismissed in reality: they don’t need any uncontrolled fluctuations which sony cameras have.
Funny you mention lenses when the FF line up is growing faster than your Fujifilm lineup during the same time span.
And I wonder why you make an issue out of RAW compression that is only rarely visible in extreme transitions (neighbouring pixels on both ends of the scale) after pushing shadows about 4 stops or more, when you’re fine with X-trans output that suffers from NR built into the demosaicing process, which removes a lot more visible (especially color) information than the above mentioned compression.
Something with a glass house and such.
As for bracketing, a $6 remote, could already solve the remote issue. The A7II offers 5 frames with up to 2 EV steps.
I agree that the lens line up may get fixed. I did write I am willing to wait for new lenses. Let’s see what happens on this front.
Yes, agreed. I considered and dismissed getting an X-T1. There is no proof for the X-Trans advantage, just hype and RAW processing has troubles. The lens line up has gotten better, but is still not there, especially in terms of OS.
Remotes and gadgets are a problem when for example you are walking in the mountains and climbing… setting up takes time and remotes gets lost… it is another gadget to worry about. You either make less photos or end up running behind as the Sun is setting. I should not be forced to waste my time any more than necessary because sometimes it matters.
The RAW compression also seems to make a difference in image quality benchmarks. It indicates to me that Sony perhaps has not fixed the electronics as it should. I am happy with them adding compression, but only IF it is *lossless*.
The compression does not affect benchmarks. The color filter (typically more selective on most Sony cameras) *may*.
Huh? So, you want to do bracketing, which would either require a tripod or some steady surface, but somehow it is the remote that will slow you down?
Yes. When you are on a rock on a cliff somewhere and need to concentrate, the simpler the action the better. Instead you need to concentrate on not falling or stepping off and not on remotes. Plus remotes can be dropped between rocks (maybe archeologists will find them again), or can be dropped into water. Set camera, press button and wait is a two step action (so far I carry my DSLR on a lightweight carbon tripod without taking it off). Try it, it is a little hard to explain.
However, this is one situation where I am going with Olympus E-P5 for its 5-Axis stabilization and will try to do handheld HDR.
You know the A7 II has 5-axis stabilisation too right? It’s kind of it’s ‘thing’. Oh and aren’t Olympus RAWs still 12 bit? At any rate the IQ difference between the two is about 2 stops in every direction… So your comments seem to be based purely on internet speculation than any real understanding of the differences.
Yes, and its size is? However, it was not a clear choice for me. Had I known about the new Sony has 5-axis (this is new, the previous OS did not match Olympus one), I may have waited a few months.
You said “this is one situation where I am going with Olympus E-P5”, “going with” is future tense, you did not say “went with”. I like how you say Sony aren’t ready for the prime time and then go on to say you are using an E-P5 instead… If you think an E-P5 is ‘prime time’ then I’m sure you will be happy enough with anything, compressed RAWs or no, this stomps all over the E-P5.
Different application in this case. One is handheld walkabout camera (I just got E-P5) and the other is the best FF candidate. Two different things. I have several cameras for different uses (even the old Fuji W3 3D and a full spectrum converted E-PM2). In terms of FF, for me, Sony is not ready. I hope this explains the distinction.
It does somewhat, but to me they are in the same class. I also have a W3 🙂
I wish for a new version of the W3… but I think this line has been abandoned. I also hope the Sony 5-axis FF succeed eventually… but I will not buy in this early.
stop giving excuses, go load up your wallet first.
Nikon is affordable if you do not develpp a lens obsession and only get what you use it as you need it. Full frame Sony will not be much cheaper when you count in the lenses.
I scream because I saw your pics, they are really bad. You don’t need a camera, you need a pacifier.
What have you got?
for a lot of users, maybe an A7000 with IBIS would make even more sense? equip the 24MP miracle sensor from A6000 with IBIS, add XAVC-S support, and that’s a great camera already…
Do not forget 4K video.
No 8K.
Yes…. and non-stabilized 28/2 pancake please…
Everyone wants to jump from one ship to the next as soon as something comes out. Fuji XT-1 came out and everyone shiiit their pants. “I’m leaving Olympus, I don’t need NEX, more lenses…blah blah.” Same thing with GH4, EM1….heck, I even here people are seriously considering Samsung NX1….A7 this, A7II that. Gotta trade now my A7R for the new kid on the block. The A7S is what, yesterday’s news with 5 axis available.
As a self confessed camera addict I’ve found a slight fix for all this hysteria. It’s called film. When you want something new just go buy a good film camera. It’ll give you the same giddy high but your wallet won’t be empty. All the while posers can keep losing all of their cash in the exchange. Maybe after all the guys who never left go of their A900 are the ones really lauphing. Still chugging along, taking great pics and wondering where all the real photographers are.