I now have been told the A77 can go from 100 to 16.000 ISO and has the ability to shot even at 50 ISO if you need it. As you know the new sensor will feature a 24,3 Megapixel sensor. If you wonder about the A77 and A65 differences than I can tell you that:
1) A77 has 19 point AF system with 11 cross sensors while the A65 has only 3 cross sensors.
2) A77 can do 12 fps while the A65 can do 10fps.
3) A77 has new 3 way tilting LCD, A65 has “classic” tilting LCD
4) A77 can do 50 ISO while A65 can not.
5) The A77 has a magnesium body while the A65 has not.
6) The A77 has 1/8000 shutter while A65 has a 1/4000 shutter
7) The A77 has a top LCD screen while the A65 has it not.
8 ) The A77 is Dust and Moisture proof while the A65 is not
There are also other small differences but those are the most important ones. As you already know the A77 and A65 (and the NEX-7) do share the same 24 Megapixel sensor, same 3 million dot OLED viewfinder. Price is:
- Sony Alpha 77 + 16-50mm f/2.8 SSM = 1800€
- Sony Alpha 77 body only = 1050€
- Sony Alpha 65 + 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 SAM = 1000€
- Sony Alpha 65 body only = 900€
And that’s the competition price:
Check Canon 7D price at [shopcountry 6954].
Check Nikon D7000 price at price at [shopcountry 6952].
[poll id=”64″]
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Reminder (SR = Sonyrumor):
SR1=probably fake rumor
SR2=rumor from unknown sources
SR3=50% chance it is correct
SR4=rumor from known sources (60-80% the rumor is correct)
SR5=almost certainly correct!
212 Responses
“Sony Alpha 77 + 16-50mm f/2.8 SAM” I hope “SAM” is a typo, or just the way they call that lens…
It’s SSM. Andrea made just a typo while copying from older stuff, I guess. 🙂
Yes, exactly, I copied it and forgot that there was an error in that article!
SAM stands for “Smooth Autofocus Motor”
ISO 16,000???? What happened to 102,400???
standard sensitivity i guess, so it will be expandable to 25,600 and 51,200, at least with the multishot technology
Maybe they give three stops of extended ISO?
comment deleted
In fact, what is ISO 16000? It’s not even a full stop at 12800 or 25600, doesn’t seem to make much sense…
Could it be 1638400 ISO?
Sir, you are crazy..
Half a stop more than 12800? Depends on how they round it, I guess.
Ah ah… It sounds impossible, but 16.000 has no sense, for months SAR told us “800.000 ISO”, “thousands of ISO”. 1 million 600 thousand it’s “just” twice 800.000 ISO.
In 1/2 stop increments; you get (rounded to the first integer): … 12.800 –> 18.102 –> 25.600…
In 1/3 stops, you get … 12.800 –> 16.127 –> 20.319 –> 25.600…
They took +1/3 EV to beat Nikon new camera using their own sensor?
Hm… comparing to Nikon it would be actually +2/3 EV as SLT takes 1/3 already.
D7100 goes up to ISO 20300. You read it here first.
compare nikon d7000, AF point and ISO still big different !
hm… ok, so it might not work. Erm… so I have no idea why they would make this value. Maybe it’s where their “acceptable quality” border ends?
Maybe they just added +1/3 stop ISO ratings to compensate for the 1/3 stop light loss of the SLT mirror? Thus a camera with an ISO of 12800 without SLT would give you the same shutter speed as a camera with an SLT and an ISO of 16000.
this makes some sense.
At least this explains it somewhat, but I still really don’t think this would make any sense as it is impossible to market well. First, they don’t really advertise the pellicle mirror taking light away at all for obvious reasons. Second, they still could have just extended it to ISO 25600.
Anyway, we will see. 🙂 I am much more interested in the new EVF, especially the size.
It’s make sense with iso16000
Since nex-fs100 30db gain=iso16000
Maybe a77 shares the same exmor sensor with fs100,therefore it supports avchd2.0 and 50p
Sorry but thats not making any sense at all.
Unlike The VG-10 the FS-100E isn’t an repackaged Stills Camera.
The FS-100E shares the same Sensor as The PMW-F3 that was Specifically designed for video so unlike the SLR and SLT Sensors it only has 2,2 Megapixels of Effective resolution. An other highly important difference is that this sensor has an Native ISO of ISO800 (equiv.) for that particualar reasons the FS-100E has Built in ND-Filter as nearly all Professional Camcorders have, otherwise you would have a lot of trouble shooting Day-lite making it near to impossible without an Mattebox.
The 28Mbps mentioned on top mean that it could hardly meat 4:2:0 Image quality while the F3 Sensor Reaches can output 4:4:4 on the PMW-F3 and 4:2:2 on the FS-100E du to the Video Optimisation of the Sensor. If they would try to Output 4:4:4 from an 24,3MP Sensor that would mean an incredibly high amount of data that has to be processed inside of the camera with no benefit at all from doing so.
A77 of corz!~
All of this and just 150 USD difference? duh… looks like no point in getting the A65, really. 🙁
Hopefully the A99 will have a faster shutter than 1/8000.
Nice, Iso 50. The a77 seems to be a really nice photographic tool.
I’m looking forward to using ISO 50 a lot if this is true….ISO 50 = maximum resolution!!!
Not if the native sweet-spot of the sensor is in the ISO160-200-area as with many earlier sony sensors. Then ISO50 would only be better for longer shutterspeeds or larger apertures at the cost of DR, resolution would stay the same.
I’d be happy with it even if resolution would be equal to ISO 100. Just for the sake of having free ND filter option always available in the camera 🙂
ISO 50 is my favorite part of the news!
Indeed.
Me too!
Does anyone know whether the new 16-50 is going to be weatherproof as well? That’s important!!!
It is a weather-sealed lens, meant to corrilate with the release of the A77…along the lines of Pentax bodies with lenses…same principle…should be a great lens, even if it is only for APS-C. Huge improvement over the old standard 18-70 f3.5-f5.6…
You should rather compare it with Zeiss 16-80 than old kit lens. They will be the same segment, at least price-wise. 🙂
Awesome… need to save… money….
Look good. Can’t wait any more!! Thanks Andrea 🙂
a55 has got 25600 but a77 only 16000?
today, from a sony rep in Prague: the new 24 MP sensor has 1/3 stop better iso performance than the 16MP one.
knowing that they increased the native one to 16.000…it’s possible.
more resolution and more iso performance. great!
no word about DR though…
I’m still not really persuaded by the SLT design: It would be perfect when the mirror removes when taking a photo as with traditional DSLRs (at least optionally). I do not want to loose 1/3 of the light. While the SLT design is certainly a smart approach to get fast AF in live view and video, the implementation is not the best solution to get the best still photo iq possible. (The NEX7 should be superior to the A77.) I hope that the upcoming full framers will have the option to get the translucent mirror out of the way when taking a photo.
You’re being pedantic. That ‘loss’ of light really isn’t noticeable and its more than covered by the improving sensor technology anyway. You would never be able to tell two equally sized images apart from an SLT vs non-SLT. Especially if the SLT camera has a newer sensor.
I’m pedantic – touché. 1/3 stop sounds not much, 1/3 of the amount of light coming through the lens sounds much. If you don’t want “good enough”, but “as good as possible” the difference is relevant. And it would be not that compiplicated to solve the light loss. By the way: dxomark rated the Alpha 580 and the SLT 55. As far as I konw both have the same 16 MP sensor. The 580 scored with 80, the SLT 55 with 73 points. (Though, I’m not sure if I agree to all the findings of dxomark.) When you look at other cameras you know, you will notice that this makes a difference – at least when you’re pedantic with iq.
If you’re that pedantic and into landscapes, why would you even get an APS-C camera? Get full frame or medium format if the ultimate in image quality, dynamic range etc matters! 🙂
That pellicle mirror isn’t permanently fixed in front of the sensor and you can turn it out of the way of light if you’re OK with loosing PDAF. (saw that done on A33 ten days ago)
It’s just not designed to be flipping back and worth automatically.
And to be precise that 30% light loss is over half stop. (50% less light is equal to one stop)
Sony doesn’t use pellicle mirrors.
So you could focus, turn away the translucnet mirror and shoot? How exactly does this work? At least for landscape work this would be helpfull. But if this is really possible the mirror can move. The less I understand why it doesn’t work as with traditional SLRs …
You’re right about the light loss … my bad, should have thought twice about it. But this makes things even worse.
ISO 16,000 doesn’t make much sense. I know the old A700 does “in-between” ISOs, such as 320, 640, 1000 etc., but why stop at 16,000 on the A77? Not to mention that it seems a bit low – I was expecting maybe up to 25,600, not that I need that much. As long as it can do clean images up to 6,400 or maybe 12,800, I’ll be happy enough.
With regards to the A65 screen – I have to say that it looks a bit more advanced than a “classic” tilting LCD on the photo at the top of this page, so what’s the deal here?
Maybe that’s where acceptable quality for Sony ends with this camera?
It seem to be reasonable explanation. However I hope for clean and detailed! ISO6400.
+1
1050 € ? Wasnt it told than it will be 1200 – 1300 ? But ye, a77 definitely !
1050 EURO = 1200-1300 USD.
Wow, from the spec listed above, A77 is exactly what I have been waiting for:
1) 19 point AF system with 11 cross sensors – sweet!
2) 12 fps – don’t need it maybe “regular” hi burst can go 8 fps?
3) 3 way tilting LCD – nice for vertical low angle shots, hopefully the hinge is durable enough!
4) 50 ISO – awesome feature, less ND filter stack up!
5) magnesium body – Who doesn’t want that?!
6) 1/8000 shutter – Nice, so I can use f1.8 in bright daylight!
7) top LCD screen – not sure if I will use it a lot but is good to have!
body only for 1050€ (US$1100-1200)? Where is pre-order form? I will skip 16-50 and get 16-35 instead so I am A99 ready!
“6) 1/8000 shutter – Nice, so I can use f1.8 in bright daylight!”
That’s what 50 iso is for. No more ND filters for video in bright sun!!!
The A77 sounds like it’s going to be one hell of a camera. I was wondering about getting the A65 but with those specs I’ll now pay the extra and go with the A77. With full HD and manual controls, weather sealing, fast AF, 24 mp, better EVF etc. it will be worth every penny and should last me the following five years.
Better EVF? Where did you read that A77 will have better EVF than A65? Did I miss something?
Ooops. I meant better than the A55.
Not just magnesium but water and dust proof. All outdoor photographers need it ;))
And wait for dust and waterproof flashes 🙂
Dust and waterproof flash is the new Sony HVL-43AM 😉
I bought mine a month ago in anticipation of the A77. For those of you who can’t wait for the A77, now would be a good time to order the HVL-43AM. That way, by the time the A77 arrives, you will be comfortable with the new flash and there will be less technology overload.
I surprised that I don’t see more discussion of Sony flashes on Sonyalpharumors.
BTW Andrea could You ask Your sources about AF system – 19 points is good – but if there will af point control system like on A580 – it will be very bad – too much time to move from one point to other. No shortcut to central point. No eye-following system. Any chace that something WILL be in A77?
AFAIK the eye-following system is a patent of Canon, and as long as patent remains – you won’t see it in any other brand.
They could always license it. I’m sure Canon would be perfectly happy to make some cash off a bit of technology they’ve already buried.
Hehe, this would be very good, for sure. Though I’m not so sure if Canon is willing to license is to it’s direct competitor, but… after all – who knows, if often happens that competitors license technologies, or even one buy parts from another (Apple/Samsung being one big example here – they fight not only for maket share, but also in courts, while at the time they still exchange technologies).
Japanese companies cross-license all the time, and in the case of Sony and Canon, they use each others’ parts in their point and shoots.
It’s not in the business culture over there for companies to set out to destroy each other. If it boosts profits for both companies, then everyone is happy.
Sony has a ‘face’ tracking system built in to most of it’s cameras… it may be semantics vs ‘eye’ tracking, but they could use that…
Couldn’t you jump to center AF point on A700 by pressing down on the “joystick” button in the center?
Oops, this message meant for Alexey above.
Yes, you could do it on the A700, but not the A580.
On my A580 I just hit the “AF” button and it resets to the centre AF point…
What size is the A65? Is it similar to A55 or bigger?
I’d like to buy a small SLT, but A35 is crappy, A65 probably too bulky/expensive and A55 is old. 🙁
Well Goldilocks…
Pick the A77 cause it is juuuuuust right.
😉
a35 crappy? How do you know that? It’s an entry level camera but crappy? Sony has fixed the over heating and battery prob the a33 had in the new a35 as far I know! 🙂
And looking at spec – either A77 will be higher priced, either 65 lower – too much differences between for just 150Eur. For now 65 is noncomparable.
And else one question – A580 in auto ISO could make ISO 150 320 or 640 1000 – in manual only 200 400 800 1600- what about A77? May iso manually entered will be availiable?
I’m sure it will be delectable in 1/2 or 1/3 stops, just like the a700
Has the DR of the new 24MP sensor increased or will it still be several stops behind film?
a77 here I come! a77 please arrive in the USA early!
This time it should be in Canada first!!! 🙂
There seems to be a lot of expensive differences between the 2 cameras, but very little price difference in the RRP. Either the 77 is under priced or the 65 is over priced.
The photo there, although obviously ‘unofficial’ shows 2 cameras with identical LCD hinge mechanisms, either that picture is wrong, or these rumours ore off target.
The hinges could still be the same on both cameras but the 3rd axis on the A77 could be the ability to swivle (?) or turn around the LCD’s own axis with I guess the A65 can not. I’m just guessing…
I hop it’s the second answer, 65 over priced 🙂 Price of the A77 naked is similar to Pentax K5 (which have alloy body, sealed, tons of buttons, switch and wheels 😉
K5 was released at a much higher price of around $1600-1700 – thats significantly more than A77
And else one – SLT means no more BIG BADA BOOM shutter sound that could awake people sleeping hundred meters away.
Andrea, could you ask your sources if they know if the A77 now has support for 14 bit RAW? Even the Nikon D5100 got this now, and not a “pro” camera. And the auto-ISO range, is the upper limit above ISO1600? The A700 has ISO200-1600 if I remember right. If A77 got maximum ISO 16.000 I would expect the auto-ISO range also larger, maybe maximum ISO 6400.
But agree with others, ISO 50 if true is more important then ISO above 6400 for me.
Hope ot get more info abour that soon!
Question: When is A77 available for purchase in Sweden/Europe? I know its been said several times before…
By the way – did you noticed that the bad news about A77 getting price raised up to 1299$ body only somehow disappeared? It’s a great week in did for people awaiting A77! 🙂
Maybe they can thank the American politicians avoiding willfully inflicting economic armageddon on themselves for that?
If the US had defaulted, we’d probably be looking at 100 yen = US$1.50 or something.
max ISO 16.000?
really sure about this?
Sure!
I think 50 – 16000 in ISO – and will be ISO boosted mode via jpg multishot.
why A77 only 19 AF point, nikon d7000 at least 39 AF point! Let me sad to see that !
Who cares about the number? I’d rather have the performance. Look at a Canon 5d2 – it’s terrible at AF. The Sony system is very simple, but it works really well imo. The a850 will lock onto just about anything with that center point.
nah, Canon has issues with sensitivity, that’s something bit different than the amount of AF points for the AF-C mode. Never the less – amount still doesn’t count. Nikon can have 52 AF points, but who cares if it 11 point AF system performs roughly equally well? Autofocus isn’t about the amount of points but the performance of system. Nikon is said to have best AF system these days with their XXXxxx amount of points, but Canon (or Sony for that matter) cameras don’t lag noticeably behind them even despite of having only a fraction of points.
Plus the SLT fixed mirror has an advantage with continuous focus where the auto focus sensor isn’t blocked out by a moving mirror.
😉
A77 has 19 point AF system with 11 cross sensors. 🙂
And you have 38 chance that the camera focus where you don’t want 😉 I always use central AF and AF lock on my K7. Maybe in high speed sports, it’s better to let the camera decide for you where you want the focus.
Canon 7D has “only” 19 points AF and it is still one of most sophisticated AF systems in APS-C camera and is easily superior to D7000 despite its 39 points. Number of points alone doesn’t define the strength of the AF system.
Poll is missing an option, NEITHER. I won’t be buying either of them as SLT is not for me.
You should probably not visit this site any more then Darren, since that’s all Sony will concentrate on now when it comes to cameras.
You should probably stop visiting this site then, since Sony are only making SLT cameras from now on. See ya!
Yep, maybe I am waiting for FF dSLT after I saw the body only price. With A77 I need to buy super wide prime like 14mm but with FF dSLT I can use my CZ as walkaround lens and occasionally use minolta 17-35 for tight spaces.
Andrea, how about size wise? how does it compare to the A580 for instance?
Mahmoud, Size of the A77 is pretty much identical to the A700.
Andrea,
Can you by any chance find out about size and weight differences between the A65 and the A77, please?
I tried to do some calculations based on the images and the A77 looks like it is exactly the same size as the A700. No idea for the A65, but I would expect it to be the same as A55.
Considering the photo on top of this page – A65 is equal to A77. What makes sense – it’ll be cheaper to build this way both of the cameras.
I wish for you to be right. I am considering replacing my A55 (I love it so much that I would replace it by anything better in a heartbeat), however I am not sure how the top LCD on the A77 affects ergonomy (the area could be used for buttons) compared to the A65. Also, I would need to consider buying a new carrying back and backpack if the size difference was too big. Will need to wait for more info I guess.
Ok!
hi admin i want to ask will the price of A77 in asia be more cheap?(becuz i live in hong kong)and if yes, may you tell me how much?(you think)
Yes maybe it is 1/16.000 shutter and not ISO speed? 😉
And yes, in polls please include an option “not interested in SLT camera”,
so we can see how many prosent of voters are “traditional DSLR” shooters
only. But maybe they are not so many visiting this website?
Thanks, again.
And yes, in polls please include an option “not interested in SLT camera”,
so we can see how many prosent of voters are “traditional DSLR” shooters
only.
In that case, also need to include “not Sony fans” so we can differentiate between Sony DSLR users who still prefer DSLR, and canikon fanboy’s opinion that we can ignore 😀
Can we also have an option for doleful Minolta refugees? 😛
Andrea – a big concern of SLT technology is ghosting. Please can you ask your sources if Sony have fixed this issue, or at least improved it?
Another question for them – will the A77/A65 have AF micro adjust?
An earlier rumour said yes, the a77 will have AF microadjustment
If A65 and A77 will not have a micro AF adjustment that can be changed by the owner (like the A850/A900) has and many other competeing DSLR all the AF performance is useless, if the focus does not hit.
I hope it will not change like the high ISO. (Even the NEX3 has higher ISO than 16000. All the mid range competition have already 25600. )
I thought so too, but that’s not true.
That’s it? Max ISO 16000? :/
And, please, some news concerning 2.8 cross sensor(s)!
Andrea, please, any news about A77 medium-high ISO quality (let’s say… about 5000-6400 ISO)? Thank you for your work!
lack of iso 50-100 forces me not to use my minolta 50/1.4 with my a550 at bright day
make me have to carry bulky 1dmark3 pair with plastic fantastic 50/1.8
:p
ISO 50 is greate!
But where is the iso of > 100.000??? I hope the ISO will go up at least to 25k and the iso will be very good!
According to DPR
The ISO for Nikon D3s which is the current high ISO king.
ISO 200, 400, 800, 1600, 3200, 6400, 12800 (100-102400 with boost)
D300s
ISO 200 – 3200 in 1, 1/2 or 1/3 EV steps (100 – 6400 with boost)
D3X
ISO 100, 200, 400, 800, 1600 (50-6400 with boost)
CANON
60D
ISO Auto, 100, 200, 400, 800, 1600, 3200, 6400, (12800 with boost)
7D
ISO Auto, 100, 200, 400, 800, 1600, 3200, 6400, (12800 with boost)
1D MKIV
ISO 100, 200, 400, 800, 1600, 3200, 6400, 12800 (50, 25600, 51200 and 102400 with boost)
5D MKII
ISO Auto, 100 – 6400 in 1/3 stops, plus 50, 12800, 25600 as option
So it appears that the highest native ISO is 12800 and everything above that is boosted.
The lowest is also only 100..below that is also boosted.
If Sony has implemented native 16000 ISO……….they win.
The “ISO in the hundreds of thousands” quoted by Sony reps is probably true with either multi shot stack or straight ISO boost.
🙂
There isn’t such thing as boosted ISO. Or, if you prefer to look at it this way: Every ISO setting is boosted base ISO (100 in most cameras).
Canon and Nikon use “boost” term in order to appeal public better, look that they have quality high-ISOs, while they have it equally high as Sony for that matter, that’s especially true with Nikon who uses same sensors as Sony, yet their cameras don’t have ISO 12800 in native mode.
It’s as boosted as Nikon doesn’t use APS-C sensors, but DX instead (which is another Nikonian BS, cause the DX format is just their label on Sony APS-C sensors – same thing with FX).
Agreed everything above or below BASE ISO is boosted but….
Tell this to DPR
Maybe we should all go back to film and there would be no argument.
😉
Yea… well… DPR lives in their own world. Lucky enough – they don’t test much stuff these days so there isn’t anything to argue about ;]
The nominal base ISO of CMOS sensors is in the ballpark of 200, though each design is slightly different.
You are only partly true. The difference between boosted and non-boosted modes is that the boosted modes basically just do the amplification in software, instead of hardware. In “regular” ISO modes the amplification gets done before A/D conversion / quantization and thus (typically) gives higher quality then doing it later in the software. The software-based amplification in “extended / boosted” modes is equivalent to increasing the exposure during raw conversion – in other words its essentially a gimmick or a convenience feature depending on how you want to look at it.
And sony is a 24mpx camera APS-C, so 16000 iso may be the maximum usable setting.
Initially, the A65 seemed interesting as there were rumours that the main differences were missing top LCD and no magnesium body.
But the differences in the AF and shutter make the A65 appear severyl crippled compared to A77.
Have there been any rumors regarding the price of the NEX-7?
Two big questions – what is the viewfinder magnification and does A77 support DOF _area_ preview in viewfinder (marked with other color) like NEXes when DOF button is pressed?
at first iso 16000 might seem very weird, but given that the SLT design uses up 1/3 of the light for the phase af system, and that iso 16000 is only 1/3 stops faster than 12.800 itțs makes perfect sense to have that iso stop, so the slt wonțt lost any shutter speed compared to a normal slr which shoots at iso 12.800.
canțt wait to see if the iso is really improved, a good iso 16000 should be more than enough for any kind of shooting.
I’m not sure that makes much sense – if an SLT camera had a sensor rated at 16,000 ISO, assuming the mirror absorbed 1/3 of a stop, such a sensor in a non-SLT camera would be at about 20,000 ISO. Of course this is all a bit arbitrary, because a lot of the decisions are made by just what level of amplification is applied, how much noise and loss of SNR can be tolerated. Also (as DXOMark shows), the true sensitivity of a sensor is often not precisely what the manufacturers claim.
Look at the DXOMark sensitivity comparison of the A55 & A580 and you find they are identical (and both below the nominal numbers). However, look at the SNR & DR comparisons and that’s where you find the difference between the SLT & non-SLT numbers – they A580 is about 1/3rd stop better at the same nominal sensitivity. Basically the amplification has been increased on the A55 so there’s more noise present.
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/%28appareil1%29/675|0/%28brand%29/Sony/%28appareil2%29/685|0/%28brand2%29/Sony
If it turns out that an (unboosted) ISO 16,000 is the maximum, then marketing stats is most likely the reason.
no, because it wouldn’t raise iso to match the shutter speed it would just allow the shutter speed to go lower 😛
i know the sensitivities are rarely those specified by manufacturers, but think of this When shooting with a a77 at iso 16000 you have the same shutter speed as shooting with an a580 at 12800.
Right now afaik if you are shooting with an a55 at 12800 you get the same shutter speed as an a580 at iso 12800 but higher noise cause the camera tries to pump up iso a bit to match the shutter speeds.
That’s not how it works – if you are shooting identical scenes with identical lighting, lens, aperture and ISO on an A55 and an A580 you will require an identical shutter speed (as the A55 & A580 are clearly calibrated for the same sensitivity). However, what will happen is you’ll get marginally more dynamic range (due to lower noise) on the A580 as the amplification used on the A580 will be lower.
The same applies on an A77/A580 comparison (assuming the sensitivities are calibrated the same). You need the same aperture/shutter speed for the same scene shot at the same ISO. The difference will be in the SNR, but as the A77 sensor is new and might out-perform the A580, we can’t say yet which would have the better SNR & DR.
You can’t just compare A77/A580 because of sensor resolution.
Downsample a A77 file to the 16.2 MP of the A580 and it will have better high ISO… at least I hope so 🙂
G
Surely the point is that as long as the 24mpix sensor is equal to or better than the 16mpix at the same settings, it wins by default? You are getting no less ISO but gaining 8mpix.
Technically speaking, whether you gain or lose from the 8 extra MP can only be determined from the total amount of information available. If the 50% increase in MP was more than counterbalanced by a reduced SNR from the 24MP sensor, then it would, overall, be worse. Then there’s the effect of losing 1/3rd of the light on an SLT.
I suspect that Sony will have done the job properly, but if the amount of information gathered on the 24MP SLT camera is better than the 16MP on an A580 it will have been an excellent bit of engineering as that’s a tough challenge. Of course the extra MP does allow for a more freedom in good lighting conditions – the real test is in the tough ones.
SMALL Differences??? The Only small difference is in the price! 150$ more for these features is nothing!!!
– With the combination of ISO 50 with the 1/8000 shutter speed can use the camera much better in bright light
– Of course full movement of the screen in all axes is a big advantage
– Magnesium Body and wheather sealing in a camera with this price? Great!
– More fps & better AF -> Thats why the people are buying SLTs
All these feature for just 150$, I can’t believe it…
You said it ! For $150, you get a better AF system, 2 extra fps, a magnesium weather sealed body, a nice 1/8000 shutter speed coupled with ISO 50 and a more variable LCD screen and top LCD. Who would want to skimp $150 for so many more features ???
What’s the deal with that price for the A77 kit. A 16-50 2.8 SSM is nice, but not 750 Euro nice. That’s an awful big premium to pay over the fairly well-regarded Tamron or Sigma equivalents.
You noticed that it’s always like that? Not only in these but tele and UWA lenses as well? Nothing weird here. Regardless of lens or label on it (Canon and Nikon folks also have their lenses more expensive than Sigma/Tamron counterparts)
But the is no comparable Sigma/Tamron, is there (16mm Wide, weathersealed)?
The Zeiss 16-35 isn’t weather sealed either unfortunately
But the new 16-80 SSM is sealed, as far as I understood it
Oh right – but you said ultra-wide, and 16mm on cropped sensor isn’t ultra-wide!
What 16-80 SSM? Did you mean 16-50 SSM?
I am really interested in a 16-80 SSM. So if you have any info on that please reply ASAP!!!!
ISO 50 is what I have hoped for… awesome!
Note on pictures: what about reconsider previously leaked pictures as pictures of A65? There is no top LCD.
I think the 50 is Boosted though.
Native ISO is 100-16000
🙂
SLT mirror takes 1/3 EV so if sensor native ISO is 100 than actual native ISO of camera will be 1/3 EV less than 100, which is 80 ISO. IMO the minimum ISO of sensor itself is around 60-64 what with SLT design gives you roughly 50 ISO as a result of mirror+sensor.
Pentax in their recent camera made 60 ISO using Sony sensor, so likely Sony did the same trick here, and what they display on a screen with A77 is actual camera ISO, making it 50.
I wonder if they’ve addressed the overheating issue during video shoots and I wonder if they have 1 or 2 stops of bracketing. Not just 1/3 stops.
@baldy,
The NEX-5 has either 0.3 or 0.7 EV for bracketing.
Like you, I also hope Sony would offer 1.0 EV as well for bracketing on the NEX-5N, NEX-7 and A77.
16.000 usable ISO, that’s awesome!
It depends on a definition of “usable”. Some claimed that A100 got ISO 3200 usable. It did not. Even after Lightroom 3 blessings.
Last I checked my A100 only goes up to ISO 1600…so I would say that ISO 3200 on the A100 is by definition “Unusable”
ok… A200 than. 😉 😛 I’m sure on of these got 3200…
My A900 goes up to 6400…in theory.
everything in from 50 – 16000 is usable.[period!]
yes, it’s only depend on view size, at 800×600, even the cheaper p&s 1600iso is OK with some NR.
To Admin:
will the A77 have peaking?
Spoke to an Sony employee, he confirmed the announcement on late August.
He said also, the EVF and Monitor will be OLED (not 100% confirmed) and the A77 should be available early october in europe.
He said, Sony tried to kick Nikon & Canon into the n***:
youtube.com/watch?v=_J6lUmlKz0Y
Greets
PS:
Convinced him to reserve a A77 for me.
argg…boring. 600D still no demand ><"
Funny that. Well you might be able to find someone who will trade an A230 for one, maybe.
With the A77 I hope to have clean 6400 ISO.
With the A700 I can comfortably shoot at 1600 and 3200 is a stretch.
2 stops in 4 years
😉
do you take pictures in your closet?
No but occasionally nightclubs/bars/concerts/candle lit restaurants
🙂
It’s make sense with iso16000
Since nex-fs100 30db gain=iso16000
Maybe a77 shares the same exmor sensor with fs100,therefore it supports avchd2.0 and 50p
No One concerned about the SLT Ghosting stuff…? I remember reading about it on the forums a while back. Was it false?
I wasn’t concerned about it on the A3x/5x models either.
Looking at http://www.intlmag.org/showcase/MgShowcase6_Oct08FINAL.pdf (advantages of magnesium over plastic casing), the last paragraph says
‘In addition to magnesium’s excellent strength-to-weight ratio for
die-cast components, the ultra-light metal offers 100 times better
heat dissipation than plastics…’
I wonder if this will mean that the a77 will be able to record video for longer than the a65?
If I had the money to spare, A77 would be a no-brainer. Only 150 Euros difference and you get a much better camera. 1/8000s will be quite valuable.
honestly I can’t wait to see how fast that AF really is, that is the farmost important feature for me….along the video which was ok even on a55….a700 with 2-3 fps more, decent video and I’m buying….90% of my shooting is action photography and I make a living from that….i constantly feel my 70-400G is not giving me 100% of it’s max performance
Whats the deal with complaining about the iso 16000?
Altho im a very noob at photography (1 year).
I dont even like to go higher than iso3200 (a580).
For real, how many of u actually use iso12800 or higher?
Oh, I’d just need a ready-to-use 4000-5000 ISO jpg on-camera (no RAW, but jpg)… without my actual pain with A700…! No problem if it doens’t arrive to 1000000 ISO, I don’t ask anything more than “clean” 4000-5000 ISO…
“For real, how many of u actually use iso12800 or higher?”
I wish I could. But my a300 rarely offers such chance)
ISO 12800 is useful for night photography. Sometimes it’s soo dark you can’t see much and the EVF/LV is blank. So I took a shot at highest iso to check the composition, before taking the real shot.
And higher max ISO usually means the camera can take picture with lower noise at lower ISO as well.
the iso 50 and 1/8000 sec shutter will be awesome with Guam’s super bright sunny days…Hope the a77 lives up to the expectations…wife gave permission to purchase camera body…Just not sure if I am going for the a77 or NEX 7
I told my “boss” that I wasn’t planning on replacing my a850 for another year or so, and this year’s camera money would be going to replacing more of my old Minolta lenses………….
that might be tuff because this new Sony camera (a77) looks mighty sweet AND Sony has shown no new full-frame lenses for several years now with a exception of that optically questionable Zeiss 24/f2.0 that was released a year ago this month and is in the same focal range as 2 other Zeiss zooms that I own already.
I can’t wait to hear what Sony has planned for the a900 replacement AND a full-frame lens roadmap from Sony would also be very helpful.
Well, the 85/2.8 is technically a full frame lens…
Hopefully some more FF lenses will be announced with the A99.
Of course you are correct!
I forget about that one and the 28-70/f2.8 I think it is, since I have the Zeiss 85/f1.4 and 24-70/f2.8
I guess that I like others keep hoping Sony will modernize and make a few improvements on many of the older lenses and add a few choices to round out the line-up
I had noticed that on B&H photos website that Sony has 19 lenses listed as full-frame while Canon has 110 and Nikon has 107 to choose from.
If Sony is serious about full-frame camera bodies then it will need to address this a little.
I’m not sure yet that they are serious or will produce new or more lenses.
Ture, most of us only need 4 or 5 lenses so thinking that Sony needs fo market 100 lenses is silly
But there is a big difference between Nikon, Canon and Sony in the full-frame market
If you add Minolta lenses, you’d probably be looking at 60+
For what it’s worth, I have 10 Minolta lenses and only one Sony. Of course, Minolta isn’t designing lenses any longer, so we need Sony to take up the mantle.
.
There would be nothing unusual ISO 16,000, many very nice feature to be real. If only comes to 16,000 ISO, means that we can achieve maximum quality at high ISO to 6400.
If you get adequate 24mpix images at ISO 3,200 I’d be very impressed. The 16mpix A55 does pretty well already. I don’t think we’ll be using 16,000 though. 😉
I agree…clean iso 6400 would make me content…but wouldn’t mind if it was clean through higher iso’s ; )
The A77 clearly looks like the better buy to me. When you’re spending that much on a camera the difference in price seems very small.
Will they have extended ISO beyond the weird and low 16,000?….and whether there will be multi-frame NR to further boost the ISO? (even a580/a55 has 25,600)
Any idea on the price tag for the NEX7?
Also wanted to ask if either the A77 or NEX7 have body stabilization,
if so, I’m already thinking on selling my gh2 + lenses…
High ISO will only be useful if the noise problem has been addressed. My a850 stinks when above 3200. Also if someone can educate me on the memory cards. I was a bit disappointed to hear that they dropped the compact flash. It seems that the CF card writes way faster than either SD or MS cards. I thought this would be important considering it can shoot at 12fps.
A VERY VERY *clean* 6400 ISO performance will satisfy any photographer use on earth !! (CLEAN and CLEAR image @ 6400 ISO for Raw, will be perfect). Look forward the A77
Any rumors for Leica Len’s work with Sony’s (Nex / Alpha) ?
Leica R mount lenses can be converted to A mount, and there are adaptors for fitting both R and M mount lenses to the NEX’s E mount.
Andrea,
could we expect the NEX-7 to be watersealed too?
iso 50 also on the Nex-7 would be Great !?
What is the flash sync speed? With and without SSS? The a55 was real poor on this, less than the a700.
For due to the features mentioned in the Post you would have to be insane to go for the A65 just to save 150 Lousy Euros, especially the Magnesium body with the Sealing are vital Features for me making the A65 no option at all. The Cross-type Sensors, the LCD on top and ISO 50 are Nice to have but wouldn’t necessarily change my mind. As for the 3 Way Display I would even prefer a fixed display as on my 700, the FPS don’t really matter to me everything above 5 is satisfying for me.
Can somebody tell me what currency the author is quoting in so that I can calculate in US dollar$ ???
Why would you calculate ? Most of the time electronics sold for Euro 1000 in Europe are sold for US 1000 in US. I would say at least 90 % of the time. Even more many products are sold for the same “number” of dollars , euros and pounds, even if the excahnge rate would make it very different. Wait until Sony anounces the price.
euro’s but dont try to convert USA always gets its cameras cheper than europe. 1050e is almost $1500 but us price will be $1299 Max.
When 1/3 of light is lost for af in SLT…
Is APS-C SLT is just equivalent to 4/3 SLR?
I mean comparing light loss via translucent mirror or loss via sensor surface reduction.
If you take the simple approach of the number of photons that reach the surface and say that is directly proportional to sensor area adjusted for light-loss on an SLT you get the following
Micro 4/3rds: 18mm x 13.5mm = 243 sq mm
APS-C (using A55 sensor dimensions): 23.5 x 15.6 = 366.6 sq mm
If we now take two-thirds of the latter, this would then be 244.4 effective sq mm.
On that rather crude basis, then a micro 4/3rd sensor will be roughly equivalent to an SLT-equipped APS-C assuming that the sensor technologies are comparable.
However, that isn’t the full story. The larger sensor still has larger photo-sites, deeper electron wells and at base ISO should be capable of better performance. Indeed if you go to DXOMark and compare the A55 with the best of the 4/3rds system cameras, the high ISO performance of the Sony is only a little bit better on SNR & DR. However, at lower ISOs the A55 has as much as 2 more stops of DR, quite probably because it can hold onto highlights better without saturating.
So, I would expect the A77 to comfortably outperform any micro 4/3rds system. I suspect it will have better SNR and DR throughput the ISO range with a much larger DR at lower ISO settings.
highest ISO is always joke so prediction is:
16000 = unusable at all
8000 = emergency purposes, still crap
4000 = usable
Many thanks for the clarifications Steve.
I was afraid that this pellicle mirror technology is really a limitation… Seems not that much… At least not as much as dropping performances to a lower category sensor.
Hey, i’m in love with Photography and I want a Sony Slt to be my first “real” camera. I am thinking about the a65 and i am wondering whether it is a good camera for beginners or not. I want to try out and play with aperature and shutter speed to be crative ;-D Do you think a65 would be the right one for me or any other camera?!
Probably overkill, but that isn’t necessarily a bad thing, as you can grow into it.
Just make sure you also budget for at least one properly good lens to go with it
Or consider an older Sony camera. a700 is a good camera and cheaper.
Consider A580. It isn’t too expensive, old school OVF plus very good high ISO (same image quality as a 7D, so that is what some people are saying on the web).
I think that many of us are forgetting, or taking for granted, the effect of SSS relative to other brands, in this high ISO discussion.
Folks have complained in the past about the relatively poor high-ISO capabilities of the Sony line in general, when compared to Canon and especially Nikon. However, it was never truly apples-to-apples unless using a stabilized lens on these other brands. For example, even with a mild two-stop effective in-body stabilization, at the same aperture and shutter-speed combination my Sony could shoot at ISO 800, for example, rather than ISO 3200 with the others.
So even with ISO 12,800 (leaving the ISO 16,000 out of the equation for a moment) and two stops’ stabilization, that’s equivalent to ISO 51,200 on another camera that doesn’t use a stabilized lens, if we wish to compose a photo at the same aperture and shutter speed.
I realize that there are many variables to consider for even a single photo, but clean ISO 6400 or even 12,800 with in-body SSS makes for a very formidable photographic tool.
Interesting. This is hardly the “hundreds of thousands” ISO range that was originally hinted at. However, I will take CLEAN/USABLE images in a lower range vs heavily noisy ones in an upper range. Right now, shooting with the A700, between the agorabasta settings and noise reduction in LR3, I’m able to use upper range ISO 3200 and produce usable images in a pinch. If the images coming out of the camera are giving me clean images at ISO6400 or ISO12800, it will truly be amazing.
I’m wondering what the quality of the ISO 50 will be in a final image, and I’m wondering how well the all-cross type AF points will work in the field. I’m definitely itching for a better AF system compared to the A700’s.
Considering that I’ll be getting the vgrip with the body… and I’m in need of replacing the tamron 17-50/2.8 lens, the A77+16-50/2.8/ssm is looking pretty sweet. Albeit pricey… Sept can’t come soon enough. Seriously.
Of what use or advantage is the ISO 50???
Saves using ND filters on fast lenses/in bright conditions. Depending on the implementation, ISO 50 is going to give worse IQ than a native ISO 100.
Sony should lower the price when the state of global economy is down.