According to “Zeiss insiders” the company has no plan to release any new Zeiss Touit lens this year. And it’s yet unclear if Zeiss will launch any new Touit lens in 2016. As stated officially by Zeiss weeks ago their focus now is on Full Frame lenses. Zeiss will launch a wide angle Loxia FE lens in September/October. Just let’s hope Zeiss will increase the Loxia lens production because it’s still impossible to find them in Stock in USA (see BH).
P.S.: Zeiss US dropped the price on the APS-C E-mount Touit lenses:
$300 off on the Zeiss 12mm f/2.8 Touit at Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here) and BHphoto (Click here).
$221 off on the Zeiss 32mm f/1.8 Touit at Amazon (Click here), Adorama (Click here) and BHphoto (Click here).
125 Responses
Makes sense.
“Zeiss will launch a wide angle Loxia FE lens in September/October.” Admin, any news regarding a short tele Loxia, say around 85mm? Because that’s a lens I reallyreallyreally need.
That’s the one I was waiting for as well. With the Batis 85mm, I think that will be perfect for me, and it would surprise me to see a Loxia 85, since they will have just released the Batis. I’m hoping for a 105mm or 135mm Loxia. 🙂
I’m drooling over the prospect of a 105mm Loxia. 🙂
Zeiss should just forget about the Touit and Loxia and concentrate on the Batis line. It’s not 1970 any more.
Ughh, if your future is an LCD display on a lens, no thanks.
An this is an Sr4 about nothing.
Well, some APS-C E-mount camera owners may care to know what’s the plan from Zeiss for their camera.
Damn, some commenters only think abotu themselves allt he time as they would be the only reader here 🙂
thank for for the rumor, i found it quite informative.
Well E mount shooters can always just use the FF options (though they wont have the size advantage). Probably the biggest thing with this would be for Fuji owners hoping for more touit lens’s.
I think the Fuji owners are quite happy with their Fujinon lenses. Fuji doesn’t fail to deliver some high quality glass, Zeiss will hardly be missed.
I´m waiting for a 15 mm Batis
There won’t be such lens. Loxia will go wider, but Batis will only go longer 100mm or 135mm etc.
The problem with loxia, is no autofokus
That’s exactly why people like me love and buy Zeiss Loxia – because of their superb and unparalleled mechanical manual focus. Focus-by-wire doesn’t even compare…
People like you are the minority.
Most people want full AF.
And then there are people that want a cinematic lens, which means mechanical focus, de-clicked aperture and no focus breathing.
I am not sure, but I think the loxias have focus breathing and are therefore not fully cinematic featured.
Be that as it may, but the fact remains that Loxia is a very successful and popular lens series with glorious reviews everywhere. And from that perspective it’s easy to see why Zeiss would want to expand that series.
I am not sure if Loxia is very successful:
In Amazon the Loxias have less than 5 reviews (35+50mm added).
Sony FE55/f1.8 has has 78 reviews (comparable price / comparable size / comparable focal-length / comparable f-stop / but AF instead of MF)
=> I estimate, the Sony FE55 is ~20 times more often sold than the Loxia. And I am convinced, the main reason is because the Sony has AF and the Loxia is only MF.
We will see how Zeiss Batis will sell 🙂
And I am convinced the main reason is because the FE 55 was released earlier.
To me Loxia looks very niche. So of course I would expect the ZA Zeiss to sell more, which seemed to be a big success reputation wise. But just the ZA 55mm would sell 20 time more (B&H photo has 8 vs 93 comments, so maybe it is closer to 15 times, but doesnt matter, worlds apart), but to me that doesn’t meen the Loxia is not a success. It’s all relative.
The Loxia’s are niche lenses that serve a particular customer that want manual focus, compact, high quality lenses for still cameras.
Absolutely, if you want the most accurate focus it needs to be manual. I have the Loxia 50 and love it, I am a little old school however and was brought up on manual lenses.
AF for 15mm is very simple. Set focus to 2 m, aperture f/4.0. Then all is sharp from 1 m to infinity.
The market for highend APS-C is very small. And unfortunate for Zeiss, Sony has very competitive lenses in these focal length (50/1.8, 35/1.8, 24/1.8 and 10-18/4). Furthermore, the Touits were not really “Zeiss-like”, considering their price tag.
Agreed. I’m guessing the Touit lenses sold very poorly until they had that killer 2 for 1 (almost) sale. I don’t think its an indicator of Sony abandoning APS-c, more just a reality that advanced enthusiasts that buy expensive primes don’t shoot APS-c – they shoot FF. The Touit’s were just priced too high compared to Sony’s offerings and casual shooters (most APS-c buyers) don’t buy expensive primes.
“Zeiss-like” – well put. I think the IQ on the Touits I have are superb, but yeah, they just don’t feel as “Zeiss” as the Zeiss primes I have for my DSLR, as strange as that may sound. One thing that really surprised me with the 12mm is just how cheap and flimsy the lens hood is. I could snap that thing into pieces with one hand if I really wanted to.
Batis 18mm + Loxia 21mm
I really hope the Loxia would be small.
APS-C is dead. We all know it, but still trying to not see the elephant in a room. Lenses for aps-c suck. QC is bad. One has to go over 3 copies to find at least ok-ish copy of lens. Sony clearly switched to FF and FE lenses as their IQ is much better and more consistent. Last lens for aps-c was released long time ago. No more aps-c lenses and no more roadmap even. Bye-bye aps-c. I sold my A6000 3 months ago for pennies (prices are dirt cheap) and went FF.
The only people who stayed in aps-c are losers with no money, or BIF lovers – everyone else is converting to FF. The End is Near! Convert until too late!
All three lenses I bought were fine. I must be lucky or something.
However, I’d have to agree, APS-C is being left out.
Yes – but DSLRs are deader. And there are many winters until there the last Canikon DSLR is produced. And we will see even more winters, until the last APS-C is sold.
APS-C mirrorless is and will be the counterpart to m4/3.
Aps-c is still an overwhelming majority of all ILC cameras sold. Check Amazon rankings, in the top 100 of all cameras sold there are 20 crop cams and two FF. DSLR’s outsell mirrorless 3:1 and again most are crop. Sony may not care, but it’s the driver for the rest of the industry.
You don’t say!
Well it’s not like Sony can be bothered to make any new APS-C lenses, so why should Zeiss?
I think you missed out why Zeiss created the Loxia lineup in the first place and ppl can say all they want but I always find manual lenses render images differently from autofocus lenses
That’s biggest pile of crap I’ve ever read.
Touit for Zeiss = A-mount for Sony
They exist, never an official EOL, but pretty much there already
Correction: Touit for Zeiss = A-mount and aps-c for Sony.
They exist, never an official EOL, but pretty much there already
Ah come on, you can do better then that. APS is here to stay, Sony A-mount is not dead at this time (they just came with two upgraded lenses and the A77mII) I think the A-mount is not here for ever as the DSLRs will die a slow and horrible death in the future… (not only A-mount but Canon and Nikon DSLR mounts too!)
I hoped for Zeiss Touit 16mm f/1.8 🙁
If the Loxia lenses are hard to find because Zeiss underestimated demand, I hope it won’t make the same mistake with the Batis lenses and that it has the production capacity to cope.
Why should Zeiss forget about a success? Loxia have been selling more than expected, and a lot of people a waiting for both wider an longer Loxia lenses.
Because once the retro fad is over, no one’s going to buy any of these lenses.
Loxia certainly doesn’t look retro, totally new design style. Leica lenses look the same for ages, call them timeless. The optical designs are both state of the art.
People who buy the Loxia are happy they don’t have to droll out 3000 bugs for the Summicron-M.
Personally I don’t see any clear winner in this battle here:
http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2015/03/16/battle-of-the-champions-leica-m-50-apo-vs-sony-a7ii-50-zeiss-loxia-by-brad-husick/
Totally different market than the AF bunch (and focus by wire), or for people who don’t want to lug around the Otis.
Anyway, for me the Summicron-R is in the post, still USD 700 below the Loxia, and while certainly a much older design, still despite the age at least having some distant eye contact to the Loxia.
http://www.dearsusan.net/2014/10/10/zeiss-loxia-50-sony-fe-55-leica-summicron-50-great-normal-lens-shootout/
At some point a whole lot of people are going to wake up with a major FF hangover, surrounded by a lot of unnecessarily bulky, heavy, expensive gear.
Good! Useless… why zeiss for amador aps and emount?
Zeiss wanted in on the mirrorless game and placed its initial bet on Sony NEX and Fuji X. It failed miserably.
But this time around their second try with Sony A7 (Loxia and soon Batis) seems to be a runaway success. It is understandable that Zeiss now focuses on full frame only. There is much more potential for them.
Maybe Batis will be a runaway success because they are modern AF-lenses.
But if I look at the Loxia-customer reviews in amazon, it seems like the Loxia-line flopped even more than the Touits.
Amazon reviews are not exactly a reputable source to determine success of a product. Especially when they haven’t really been available on Amazon at all (currently 3rd party re-sellers from Japan)
It’s the best and the most reliable sources about sales number I currently have. And I know it is not accureate! But a factor of 20 is quite something.
If you have something better, please let me know!
I will look at that numbers and IF you are right, I will then recall my statement and post something different.
BTW: same picture on amazon.de – I have no clue, if is was available or not because I never was interested in that lens.
So many factors you’re not considering in your simple # of reviews comparison.
One huge one being the FE 55 has been available for over a year longer than the Loxia.
It’s so funny to read how you try to find arguments pro Loxia, guys.
I told you factor 20:
FE55: 78 reviews
Loxia50: 2 reviews
———————
= 40 x more reviews – that compensates the year more availability
So, hurry up and write your own reviews for the Loxia to prove me beeing wrong.
You really don’t get it. It has nothing to do with Loxia, you’re making a bogus comparison based *solely* on # of reviews.
FE 55: 78 Reviews
Leica 50 F0.95: 5 reviews. Wow this must be a terrible lens.
Here’s another comparison
FE 55: 78 Reviews
Velveeta Shells Dinner: 262 Reviews.
I conclude Velveeta > FE 55.
http://www.amazon.com/Velveeta-Shells-Dinner-12-oz/dp/B000QJ8SY0/ref=sr_1_19?ie=UTF8&qid=1433800581&sr=8-19&keywords=cheese
No – I said that Loxia it is just sold terribly – looks like a flop.
Thread-starting post of Mike:
“But this time around their second try with Sony A7 (Loxia and soon
Batis) seems to be a runaway success. It is understandable that Zeiss
now focuses on full frame only.”
And if you are 10 friends up-voting each other, that does not change the facts!
I actually don’t know any of the people up voting. Yes you said Loxia was a flop but again for like the 4th time your basis of it being a flop is *solely based on # of reviews*. <— This is the issue
You keep quoting price, it actually has nothing to do with price either that's what my silly comparison was made to show and you still jumped right into it.
Loxia is made for a completely different market, of course it hasn't sold as many copies as the FE 55 and they never intended it to.
How do you know Zeiss doesn't consider Loxia a wild success? (Which they have stated BTW, and Zeiss knows much more about Zeiss's sales/marketing strategy than you do)
How do you know their sales target wasn't like 1000 lenses world wide?
All BS!
1) You started comparing BMW with Civic – don’t tell me I was starting to quote the price.
2) Explaing me the difference of the market of Loxia50 compared to FE55
3) I trust my own intellect more than marketing BS! If Zeiss states the Loxia was a flop, it is bad for their stock price.
4) I think we can agree that I don’t need to write a comment to that BS!
Oh sorry – didn’t read well:
Leica 50 F0.95 – $10.000 = 10 time more expensive!!!
THIS is like comparing Ferrari and Honda civic…
And LOL – $10.000 Leica has more reviews than $1000 Loxia50!
Qed
Companies like Leica, Zeiss, Ferrari, Porsche etc. manufacture high end low volume products. They have been in business for many decades, this is a successful business model for their respective product lines. Your interpretation of a successful business model is for low to mid range consumer products and is not a valid model to evaluate high end products.
Well…. let’s see
Porsche 911 = $100.000
Ferrari 458 = $200.000
————–
Mazda MX-5 = $ 25.000 = 4-8 times cheaper
Sony FE55 = $998
Zeiss Touit 50 = $995 = 1.003 times cheaper
Ahh – now I understand! It’s the price difference that turns the Loxia into a success-story, even with low sales numbers. It is built complete different customer segment with bigger wallets – ROFL
I guess the Otus lenses, ZF lenses, ZE lenses and ZM lenses aren’t successful either since they aren’t “modern AF-lenses”?
Just because you prefer one thing does not mean everyone does.
I am just looking at the number of reviews within amazon.com and compare this to similar lenses for the same mount.
It is not ONLY my personal preference – it’s the personal preference of most customers.
Apples to Oranges. That’s like saying a Honda Civic is better than a BMW 5-series simply because there are more # of reviews. Very flawed method of comparison
Honda Civic: $20.000
BMW 2er: $45.000
Ahh- I see Apples and Oranges
Wait:
Sony FE55 = $998
Zeiss Touit 50 = $995
Hmmm…. Apples and pears???
Guys – I really don’t get why you are midjudging the situation here?!?
The Touits are very much overpriced, that’s the problem. Isn’t it $499 now?
Yes, overpriced. And not well selling.
@b&h / amazon, current prices are:
Touit 32mm = $500
Touit 12mm = $700
Touit 50mm = $1000
Loxia 50mm = $950 / $1000
Loxia 35mm = $1300 / $1400
In sync with what Sony is doing. Logical, albeit unfortunate for those of us who liked the NEXes and continue to like APS-C E-mount.
Considering the upcoming Batis 25/2, the wa Loxia shall be below 20mm, shouldn’t it?
18/3,5 or something like that would be appreciated – at least by me 🙂
Anything between 18 and 21 would be welcome.
Batis is not Loxia. Some of us want that high precision manual focus and the aperture ring.
Thanks for explaining the difference between Loxia and Batis. 🙂
Just kidding. I was aware that some people are going for manual only lenses. Personally I prefer purchasing AF lenses, however I am often operating manual focus – and I do love my Canon TS-E 24 II (which is manually only by the way, and very precise, too).
So, my comment above was more a personal wish, as I am already owning a very good 24mm, but sometimes desiring slightly more angle.
Totally agree with Andre here. I need a 25/f2 loxia sooner o later if am staying with this e-mount
Both Loxia’s are in stock at Amazon, and I think they pretty much always are. Not sure why folks have been having a hard time finding them.
No they aren’t, they are available from 3rd party re-sellers in Japan which does not include a warranty at all. People are wanting to purchase from authorized US dealers so they get the warranty as well.
What other focal lengths to they really need to make? With the new Batis lenses they basically have ever length covered for crop..
12-25-32-50-55-85
Only this would be maybe OSS versions.
Edit: its not like the Touit are really that much cheaper
That’s a good point. I really like the Touit lenses (I have the 12 and 32), but when you look at how much they cost, and the FF primes they have out there that complement the focal lengths, I can’t see them being able to offer Touit alternatives for much cheaper (based on their current Touit pricing), so what would be the point?
The Touits have dropped considerably in price. 1/3rd the price of the Batis Lenses which no one has yet. I think the Batis will be like bigger Touits with a OLed readout.
That’s a shame, we’re crying out for another £750 apsc macro…
Don’t worry folks … They’ll make ’em when they get a-round-Touit.
hehehehehe
Well, It’s so easy Sony to distinguish the A-PSC E-mount as “amateurish” and the full frame as “pro”.
Moreover, the typical Zeiss price tag is unacceptable for less than full frame coverage.
Currently only the Touit 12mm has the right to exist. And the only reason is because there is nothing similar on the market right now.
The 50mm is hardly sold, because you can get the SEL50/f1.8 for way less money, and with OSS, a 1/3 stop faster and with a smaller size.
The 32mm was sold as long there was no competition lens on the market. But now there is the Sony FE 28/f2 and I think the Sony-lens will kill the Touit 32mm sales. (Same price / same size + prepared for FF)
In general I think Touit-line is not very successful, because the lenses are too big (for APS), too expensive, and lack of OSS. It is no wonder when we see no new Touit this year.
Too big? That 32mm couldn’t be much smaller… (and it’s a great lens)
FE28/2 is 11mm shorter… (and it’s a great lens, too)
Fair enough, but they’re both so small that I wouldn’t really list size as a detriment against the Touit. They both weigh exactly the same (200g). I am intrigued by the 28mm, though; can’t wait to try it out.
it’s really a pleasure to use it, really sharp wide open; at least on my 7s. Today I got the Zeiss 16-35, need to compare these both at 28mm….
Don’t forget – FE28 is FF, Touit is only APS-C and FF-lenses are usually a little bigger in their dimensions.
And nevertheless FE28 is more compact – that’s why I said, the Touit lenses are too big.
With the Touit 50mm, 4cm longer than SEL50f18 there is another example why I call the Touits too big.
A Zeiss concentration on FE mount is going to facilitate A7 series (and future A9 series) dominance. This system will rise to the #1 position within 5 years.
Not really. Expensive lenses that few can afford does not make a system. Canon sells Rebel cameras and 18-55mm, 55-250mm and other cheap lenses by the truck load.
This market is the largest one disappearing to smart phone and compact sales though.The high end APS-C and FF market will probably be the bread and butter of these companies in the future
It is true that Zeiss is not cheap; however, they are high quality. Smartphones are replacing the lower end of the spectrum; high end camera systems are the future.
Alas, I would like to see these high quality Zeiss (and Sony) lenses being offered at more affordable prices. If they could maintain high quality while bringing the costs down a bit, then they’ll see a rapid increase in the number of Canikon converts.
I have to disagree… only expensive stuff can make a system, even for decades…. we call it “Leica”
Those Rebel cameras and cheap kit lenses is exactly what’s wrong with camera industry today. That is the part of market that’s shrinking off, not the high-end cameras and lenses. They might be still selling them by truck load, but they will not year from now, and that is a fact.
Word! A revolution is upon us yet again, as smartphone cameras get better and better, people are going to find every excuse to ditch those point and shoots and bulky cheap DSLR kits.
That revolution won’t be FF. It’ll be olympus and panasonic that dominate that rebel category.
Nothing wrong with the rebels they’re great cameras that produce gorgeous images. No they are not sexy but they get the job done.
The asian tourists that stroll around my city used to have all the Rebels with kit lens, now I see either a Sony nexalike (again with the boring kit lens) or a micro 43rd one.
E-Mount is Dead.
DSLR useres are a slow-dieing breed.
Alas, some people still love vinyl records… some people still love film… and there will always be some purists who love a big, bulky DSLR with a flappy mirror inside.
Purists like flappy bird? That bird loves flappy stuff.
Humans are a slow dying breed. I say live and let live. I’ll die with my A77II by my side. Bury me in a casket full of A900’s. Throw me off a bridge with DSLR’s tied to my legs instead of cinder blocks.
I agree with you; live and let live!
The majority old school photographers, especially those from the film days, will feel more comfortable with a large DSLR and flapping mirror. That’s okay!
I new to photography and don’t have years worth of lenses for a Canikon system built up, so going with the newer and more quickly advancing technology of mirrorless makes better sense for me. Live and let live. 😉
I have FE as well. I just got done this weekend shooting a Buddhist Monastary for fun with two cameras- A7 and A77II. Can’t complain, they both did the job admirably. Side by side, I don’t think it’s worth arguing one over the other. It doesn’t work that way in practice. Sure, FE is probably what I’ll be focused on in the future. There is zero rush however- I say just get er done!
Uh Isn’t it “Live and let die”?
I use a 32mm Touit E on my A 6000 and sometimes on my A7r and it’s a great lens. Don’t understand why it gets bashed. Would have bought the Macro but not for 1K.
Probably because the much cheaper Sony 35mm f1.8 OSS is nearly as good and has OSS. Plus the Touit used to cost > $1k but since no one saw any reason to buy it at that price they brought it down to a more sane $499.
I have the sony 35mm too, the Zeiss is a much more favorable lens..ie: the images look better, the color is much more pleasing. I understand Zeiss is shifting gears to kick out the Batis line but the Touits are sweet glass.
APS-C is dead 😉
Would love a wide angle loxia
Full frame is going to die a horrible death one day, and when that happens Sony is going to wipe Zeiss’s eyes with a printout of their Touit lens roadmap.
Joking right?
He’s right, in the sense that “one day” could be hundreds of years from now.
It won’t be a quick death, it will be slow. But yes it will die, simply because there’s nothing magical about the dimensions so reverentially referred to as Full Frame. They’re just an accident of history, and fit in with the large base of existing lenses developed for film dimensions. FF has some advantages in terms of current sensor technology but those are temporary, and eventually smaller form factors will deliver even better image quality.
I don’t think one format has to “win”, and I happily use both, so don’t have a dog in the fight, but I think your thinking on this is backwards. What’s so magical about APS-C over FF? Compactness? You can’t get too much more compact than the RX1… Once they get the A7-type ILC cameras down to RX1 form factor, if that’s what’s truly desired, what’s the call for APS-C? And given that large base of existing lenses for 35mm, it seems much more likely that APS-C would die than FF, though I don’t picture that happening real soon either.
agree!
If there will be format that wins, I give the most chances to the one with the biggest sensor in the smallest body:
Bodies can not get too small, because we photographers need a minimum size for buttons and controls. A5000-bodies are likely the minimum-body size for serious photographers. If someone can place a bigger sensor in the same body-size, it is an advantage over a smaller sensor in terms of IQ.
APS-C lenses are more compact than FF-lenses. But FF bodies can work with APS-C lenses when only the inner area is used. So smaller sensor-bodies don’t have a real advantage in terms of lens-size. And with IL-Cameras it’s the user’s choice if the camera is equipped with a big FF-lens or a smaller APS-C lens and getting APS-C image quality. (I now ignore pixel density, here)
Bottom line: I give the win to FF in the long term over APS-C (same as m4/3)
“If someone can place a bigger sensor in the same body-size, it is an advantage over a smaller sensor in terms of IQ.”
That is the hype. The reality is that there are numerous other factors in play, involving the details of the cells and the fabrication. The fact that the overall sensor dimensions are larger says nothing about the individual cells.
No one got very excited about the physical dimensions of a sensor until some marketing genius came up with the term “full frame”.
I believe APS-C will die a slow death. m43 sensors have caught up with the IQ but have significantly smaller lenses.
If you can make a perfect APS-C sensor with perfect picture quality – you can put 2 of this small sensor into a double sized one:
double amount of “cells” => double pixel count => better IQ
It’s up to you if you want to use only inner part of big-sensor for small APS-C lenses, or complete sensor for FF lenses.
But, see, I don’t disagree with any of that. My point is that the FF hype is now way over the top and it makes me mad to see the entire industry frantically climbing into that single boat. I use the a6000 for just about everything, so I’d like to see a continuing upgrade of that system – until the day when something truly better – not bigger – comes along.
That’s fair.
36x36mm2, we could still use the FF lenses. Then move to 44×33, 60×60 etc. Not everybody wants smaller and more DOF.. Bigger optics gives more freedom to control the bokeh.. Otherwise if you want everything sharp, smaller sensors and therefore optics are much better. For me I went from M43 to APS-C to FF. Never looked back. As FF is affordable now, for series hobbyists, either move up or down from APS-C. But that is just my opinion. APS-C is a good comprimise as well, good DOF flexibility already and not too big.
Nope!
At 35 mm the release order was other way round:
Zeiss Loxia 35/2 – $1400 – release Dec 2014, 1 review on amazon
Sony SEL35F14 – $1600 – release Mar 2015, 8 reviews
…so, when’s the next announcement again?
I think I’m going to add a 300mm 2.8 for weddings. Man, I’d love to use a 500mm F4 for group shots. Just image the sickness of a freaking 500 for massive group shots..maybe even a 1.4x telecoverter. I’m talking assistants and communicate via cellphone. I go like way back and epiclly destroy the background….lay it to waste…punish it…TAKE NO PRISONERS. I’m thinking 4k 500mm footage..hang it from the church rafters- remote control. Maybe I’m getting a bit carried away here.
Epic. 😉
It’s an increasingly mobile world and for me, the small size and weight of the a6000 pretty much end the discussion, I just won’t travel or walk around with a DSLR any more. I think many people will get to the same point and the FF DSLR will be seen as “Dad’s camera”.
Thanks – didn’t realize that B&H has a lot of reviews as well! And as expected it’s the same picture as amazon:
Sony FE55 is sells very well, the Touits are selling quite well. But using the term “(runaway) success” for Loxias just raises my hackles.
I am quite confident that Batis line will sell very well!
Especially 85mm! But many of the 25mm sales will be eaten by FE28/2.
Let’s wait until end of July when the first Batis will be shipped.