I just got info about the new E-mount camcorder form a source (Thanks a lot!). He said:
New Sony F cam Friday is S35, not FF. 4K internally, but 8 bit XAVC-L (note the L) 100 Mbit max. No HFR as far as I can tell, 30fps max in 4K. Looks like a baby FS7. Price will be between old FS700 and current FS7, likely $5,000-6,500 USD. Differentiation on FS7 is much better CODEC, higher frame rates (incl 60p 4K), option for RAW and ProRes, bigger build.
A second highly trusted source sent me this:
Sony will shock everybody soon with their new creation.
Don’t know if he refers to the one camcorder I shared the specs about or about a second product (FF camcorder, A7sII or whatever).
The camcorder will be announced on September 11 at 9am CET (Berlin time). You can follow the event live on the following Sony Uk page. I will also embed the live streaming on SAR.
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50 Responses
I could imagine the A6000 successor to be a “shocking” experience.
Beside that, I see a trend moving from S35 to full frame video.
I guess the second source talks about the same thing that first source says.. Nothing more!
And anyway: IBC is a show for broadcasters!!!
These days it doesn’t matter if its a show for new llama breeding technology, as long as it’s in some way related to technology. 🙂
Lol, I hope you’re right, i need a new camera!
I think it might be a new A7s sensor with high framerate and maybe even better lowlight capability. Or how about a global shutter? That’s the kind of shock I’d like 😉
“shock” is negative
“surprise” is positive
“30fps max in 4K” and “(incl 60p 4K)”…. XAVC-L can do 10 bits and 4k60p internaly….This is just a rumor…
If Sony do release a baby FS7 with S35 this will (IMO) be a complete missed opportunity ! there is noting exciting about a scaled down FS7 in a camcorder body. My fear is it will now be a fixed lens camcorder. The above specs would shock alright, but for the wrong reasons ! Anyway we will have to wait and see !
Industry should serve broadcasters better. Here we have only few HD channels and zero 4K content.
they will drop the a mount.. thats the shock.
Probably not going to happen but I really hope something is mentioned on the A6100/A7000, I’ve been patiently holding off buying the A6000 for hopes of 4K video. I think the predictions of 60fps 4K and insane dynamic range are right. It would answer the question of why the long delay over supposed over heating issues. I bet we do get the even faster AF, 15 fps photos (with continuous auto-focus), as well as ISO results similar to super 35 on the A7R ii. Throw in some slow-motion and a back-lit sensor. I would normally say no way a manufacturer gives us all of this but with Sony, it very well may be true.
I’d love to see all that in a small a6000 body, but Sony– while they do have the balls to offer cutting edge features ahead of everyone else (the kind that Canon execs pee themselves while worrying over at night)– Sony isn’t going to deliver on everything you mentioned.
If the a6XXX got the new PD AF that the a7r II has, a bigger and better LCD screen, and 4K at 30 FPS, then I would be not only impressed, but ready to buy it.
I’m pretty sure BSI will be included (which could have been the delay- not the 4K)– but really high ISO or DR would be a very bad strategy since Sony has put almost all its eggs in the a7 basket for now, and an APS-C camera without the profitable new lens lineup can’t compete in sensor image quality. It’d upend their entire business model.
No HFR modes and smaller codecs (no RAW & ProRes option) would be ok.
But no 50 / 60 FPS 4K mode would be a “no go”.
(At least at a price inbetween the FS700 and FS7.)
I wonder how Canon manages to sell the C100 mk 2, a FHD camera for 5500$ and Sony won’t be able to sell a decent 4K one for a similar price?
Well – Because it´s the only option actually for Canon users to get decent video quality AND good AF performance (even better than with the Sony cams to be precise – Alltogether with the nice Canon colours).
Though: In the case of Sony (and a possible upcoming “FS3”) it would make no sense to offer only 30 FPS 4K max. – As Sony already offers system cameras with the same performance and pristine image quality (A7s + external recorder, A7r II and soon for sure also with the A6100 / A7000). ^^
Yes, cameras that overheat in 4K recording after 5 minutes of use outside. 🙁
Sure. They are still no camcorders. And a mess compared to the quite temperature stable Panasonic bodies (especially the new RX100 IV is a mess – yes).
But it would be weird too, if you get the same 4K quality (and framerate) out of a RX10 II for example (which is also coming with XAVC-S 100MBit and S-LOG 2) – Compared to the new upcoming Sony FS camcorder ^^.
🙂
Oh please, what you described is an idiot in the midst of a worst case scenario. Just like compressed RAW, these rare “what if” scenarios seem to be the only things that stick in people’s minds around here.
Yes, the a7r II has a heating issue, and so do a lot of other well respected cameras if you don’t treat them right. There are a couple simple tricks to keep the a7r II from overheating while recording 4K, but if you’re an imbecile, and you must absolutely know if something can be broken, then yes, you can make this camera malfunction.
I think Sony should be working on a way to address the issue, but it’s not like you can’t work around the problem for now with 1/2 a brain and a desire to make it work, not break it.
From the EOSHD forums, take out the hot battery after the first 29 minute clip has recorded. Insert a new, room temp battery. Then cycle like this. If you have to stop recording anyway, it shouldn’t kill you to change the battery– and it seems to work.
Of course I can work around the problem, I choose a different camera for the job. And please keep your ugly remarks for yourself, go shoot with the A7RII for a serious payed video job and then we can discuss about how “vaporous” the overheating issues is or not!?
Maybe RX replacement with medium format,curved etc ?
A99II
come on sony, shock me with an 85/1.2 Batis doesnt cut it…
Come on Sony… I need A7SII!
Many people waiting on A6100/A7000 and may be A99 ii or may be A7sII…or at least a lens roadmap update without dates and may be even with only limited lens specs like last year
The source meant:
“Sony will shock everybody soon with the PRICE of their new creation”
But A7rII seems to be to cheap for the market, so …
“Baby FS7″…”bigger build”
Huh?
Bigger build, I think he’s referring to the FS7 so this new one should be smaller, hence the words “baby FS7”
“New Creation” suggest something that doesn’t exist yet…not an upgrade of existing models. How about a full radio flash system with transceivers and on-camera control of groups? Expanded lens roadmap to include long tele, prime or zoom, never previously mentioned and sorely lacking.
where is A7000/ A6xxx?
Any chance to see a tilt-shift lense soon?
Is it a Taser? :/
I still think this camcorder will have a full frame sensor otherwise why did they put the a7s in there ?
I find nothing shocking about those specs. A slightly cheaper, and crippled FS7? Yawn. The only problem with recording in ProRes is the cost of xqd cards. Just charge normal prices for those, and skip xavc-L until h265.
You can record ProRes 422 in 4K at ~140 MB/s, which is well under the 250 MB/s limit of the new SanDisk U3 cards. The QXD cards are for professionals who don’t want to trust their data (like a TV series or feature film) to SD cards, period. There are reasons why Sony’s media costs so much (admittedly, it’s partly because that they *can* charge that– but it’s not everything).
XQD cards are for people who want to use an FS-7 as a camcorder, period. It has nothing to do with trust. It doesn’t have a slot for anything else. (It won’t record 4k to the sd card slot). Xavc-L at 4k currently isn’t recognized by fcpx, so I really don’t consider that a feature. 128GB xqd cards are $700, and write at 400 MB/s. That’s over twice the price of an equivalent cf card, and 4 times an equal ssd. There is no equivalent sd card that I know of.
Well, I wouldn’t trust a high value recording to any SD card. I’ve had $150 SD cards split in 2 under no rough handling. They are all built to rather shoddy consumer spec. The are not super reliable. The QXD cards are many, many times more reliable. (If this is what your replay was about.)
That’s not what I’m talking about. My point is more that Sony forces XQD cards over nonproprietary formats, simply to make more money, not because other options are technically inferior.
I don’t/wouldn’t use sd cards for a camcorder either, but not completely because they’re not rugged. They’re simply not spec’ed high enough. CF cards, or SSDs on the other hand are comparable to XQD cards, and a fraction of the price per GB. Even the UHS-3 cards only come in sizes up to 64GB. Really, I think the FS-7, or similar should have a dock/connector for a SSD.
I’ve shot with a Shogun, (connected to A7S) which works in this manner, and a 1TB SSD for that was $360. The rig worked about as well as the FS-7, except the handling was worse. Not having to deal with the size limitation was necessary for this gig. xavc-L doesn’t work for me, or at least is a major pain.
If size is the issue, CF cards would work better than XQD cards at half the cost per GB and deliver over 500MB/s. Sony keeps trying to be in the media business, but they suck at it. Almost intentionally, as they can force their way in via hardware. Memory stick was stupid, and so is XQD.
I’ll agree with you halfway. When you say CF you mean CFast, right? CF is old and needs to retire for reasons other than transfer speeds. CFast, while not totally proprietary is still essentially a duopoloy and the prices are really high as well– and they won’t come down in time to matter for the next 1 to 2 years.
An SSD is too big for the FS5 form factor– but could Sony introduce an M.2 SSD drive port? Of course. But that’s not how most mid to high end cameras work. Panasonic has their “special” memory, so does RED, so does ARRI, and even some external recorders require, or heavily push their own proprietary memory.
Just like Sony could have made the FS5 out perform the FS7, or Canon could give C300 owners an upgrade to 4K, business just doesn’t work this way. They will make money where they can, good or bad.
That’s why companies like Blackmagic are such a breath of fresh air. Both because they aren’t trying to r*pe you, and also because they over deliver by so much. A $1,000 Pocket Cinema Camera gives you RAW .DNG files and 4 versions of ProRes– the highest being 10-bit HQ at 220mb/s. I own 3 of these cameras for largely that reason. The color science is amazing too. They are high maintenance cameras, but the image is nearly on par with the very best out there.
Would I rather have an FS7? Definitely. But that’d cost me about $36,000 for three cameras with one lens each (I’ve done the math) as opposed to about $6,500 for the 3 pocket cameras, 3 speed boosters, all other accessories, and 8 great lenses.
Oh yeah, Memory Stick was really stupid. So was MiniDisc. (I bought both.) :/
If those are the real stats then I’m sorry Sony Ursa mini is looking really good now. I mean 4.6k 75fps all the right codecs. I think sony needs to do more on the cinema side to take over Blackmagic, and Reds shares. That’s why I think the leaked stats are off.
It’s easy to shock everyone, it’s just a matter of announcing something like the XC-10.
“30fps max in 4K” or “higher frame rates (incl 60p 4K)”?
Maybe a lesser specified FS7 style camera with a full-frame sensor aimed more at the multi-media/still photographer market is what will appear? That’d tick all the boxes…….. 🙂
This makes no sense at all; first it says that its max FPS is 30P in 4K, then goes on to say that it can do 60P in 4K?…
Still nothing that replaces the FS700 for me. Which makes me happy. 4k 60p + 4k 120p is a big deal.
Not as shocking as the A99II!
I’m sure it’ll be a good camera but if it’s not full frame, and if it’s still 8 bit, low frame rate, it’s not for me. At all. Unlock the a7s II sensor and put it in a large enough body for Xenu’s sake…
It won’t be a fixed lens camcorder. 😉
I don’t think Sony has every *really* pursued the cinema crowd with it’s sub-$20K cameras. They want to sell to videographers who want a cinematic image, but videographers nonetheless.
The Ursa Mini is an absolute giant killer. If it ever comes out and there aren’t any reliability or workflow issues, I’d take that camera over an F5 or F55 without thinking twice. Shooting at 4.6K, which offers 50 percent more resolution over 4K, and in a compressed RAW codec… there’s just nothing like it under $50K.
But Blackmagic is Blackmagic. I hope they get the Ursa Mini right. If they do, it will affect Sony and absolutely affect Canon. The only thing Canon has, for now, is their dual pixel AF, and their reputation for solid build quality. But you can’t charge two or three times what others do just for that. Any their lenses that work on S35 sensors are old and limited, just like everyone else.
Well, Sony made the FE PZ 28-135mm cinema lens for some reason, and it couldn’t have been just for their photo cameras that also do video. If the lens was 16-90mm instead, I think Sony would still be filling backlogged orders for the FS7. And Canon would have to force their lens designers back into the office to do some real work. 😉
The S35 format for cameras under $20K is still artificially held back by the lack of just one (!) fast cinema zoom. Canon is so risk adverse they wouldn’t even joke about the idea, but Sony almost did it with the 28-135mm– it’s just built for a full frame photo sensor, not full frame cinema. So maybe the new FS will actually have the a7s sensor in it. I hope it does.