Last week I reported about the registration of a new Sony System Camera at the Indonesian agency Postel. The camera is registered with the code “WW024382” which usually defines a Full Frame camera.
An anonymous source said that this is the cheap entry level FF E-mount camera.
I am yet not sure about the rumor but like I told you before Sony indeed published a patent describing such a camera. And here is the official design:
Let’s hope the new source is right but for now keep your feet on solid ground!
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Reminder (SR = Sonyrumor):
SR1=probably fake rumor
SR2=rumor from unknown sources
SR3=50% chance it is correct
SR4=rumor from known sources
SR5=almost certainly correct!
0 Responses
Any news about new entry level FF A-mount camera?
I would like to know as well since there have been rumors of a full frame a-mount at Photokina as well.
Easy, they will just drop the price of A99 for a while.
I would love to see such a choice. That would be nothing but great!
Where are the lenses???
Which lenses? It will be normal e-mount.
Yes, where are the FE lenses?
I don’t need another FE camera, I need lenses
Lens development needs time. FE is brand new. The others were not faster, e.g. Fuji released X with 3 primes. And FE camera development doesn’t slow FE lens development down, because they are completely different teams.
Lens need more time than camera?
I dont think so
Well, it’s true. Why should a new FF camera need much time? They can always base it on existing models and just replace components. A new lens means new optical complex calculation. One thing is Electronics, the other optics. That’s a fact, whether you think so or not ;)…
Sony is great at electronics design and manufacturing. They’re not an optical company. Do understand.
“They’re not an optical company. Do understand.”
Spoken like an old noob. Take a look at Panasonic, Samsung and even Samyang. They all make very good lenses and some better than what the traditional “optical companies” make.
1. zeiss is the maker of most FE lenses, not sony
2. sony has many lenses, they know how to make lenses
Two issues with your logic:
1. Sony designs and make the lenses. Zeiss approves.
2. How do you then explain the bad Sony Zeiss lenses?
Wrong. Zeiss lenses are designed by Zeiss.
What bad Sony Zeiss lenses?
The 24 70 F4 is not the best lens, but its not a bad lens.
Bottom line, we need 2-3 more lenses for this mount.
zeiss doesn’t have a clue about the additional electronics sony uses in the construction to even design lenses. Even if they did, it would be far too difficult for the two parties to work together with a wide variety of products. This is not like in the days of Hasselblad and Zeiss.
Also Zeiss probably has no where near the capacity to build such a wide variety in world-electronic market quantities. If they did, their own ZF/ZE/ZM lenses made in Germany won’t cost as much. The others are made by Cosina.
Sonnar / planner are Zeiss designs. We talked about optical issues, no?
in the electronic area, Sony don’t have any problems 🙂
They barely resemble the original designs. And they are not the only ones making lenses with such designs. For example Fuji has classic Planars in their current cameras with no attribution to Zeiss.
Sony designs the lenses and pays for the label. Zeiss approves.
“Zeiss lenses are designed by Zeiss”.
Depends on how you define ‘design’. The optical formula is Zeiss, but the specific lens design is done by Sony.
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lesnumeriques.com%2Fobjectif%2Frencontre-avec-naoki-miyagawa-pere-meilleur-50-mm-moment-a1818.html&edit-text=
I agree. But again to my first comment, what is taking so long?
The optical formula exist, the electronic knowledge exist.
Till now, only 5 lenses…
Yawn…..16-35 24-70 35 55 70-200.
Cheap is a relative term that with Sony means expensive.
Uhm, Sony A7 is currently the cheapest new fullframe camera. So what are you talking about? If this camera even goes under the A7’s price…
What about the lenses? They aren’t that cheap. One thing I don;t like about mirror less (and I own two), is the fast decline in resell value. When the A7 came out it was 1500Euros. Now you get a new one below 1000Euros, I don’t speak about used ones.
Resale values of all cameras are affected. If they aren’t then it’s a dead or a niche system… like Pentax or Leica.
Look at the prices of DSLRs. The price of a D610 is almost the same it was 1.5 years ago when I bought it. Same applies to D800E or other top models, until a new generation replaces them.
You should look at the D600 price, not the D610 price since there’s no replacement for the D610. The prices have also come down by about 25% since launch.
Haven’t checked D800/E prices but will soon go down further since the D810 is there now. Also the extra of the D800E makes no sense now since the 810 does the same and better.
Agree, as soon as a replacement surfaces, prizes drop, I think I wrote exactly that. Same will apply to D800/E now that the D810 is available.
You wrote a statement which implied that this was solely a mirrorless issue. It very clearly isn’t. With modern cameras, technology changes so quickly and sensors and processors get better with each generation. Of course older models are going to lose resale value, regardless of whether it’s a mirrorless or a DLSR.
I have the impression that mirror less loose their value faster than DSLRs. But maybe I’m wrong. However, other share that opinion (look at Lloyd Chambers opinion on that and A7r, for example).
I read Lloyd Chambers on slow Ken Rockwell days 🙂
If you’re not afraid of manual focus, there are tons of great legacy lenses you can purchase for next to nothing (comparatively) which preserve their resale value and sometimes even go up in value. Most of these can be adapted fairly easily to the E mount system.
Sony ain’t cheap but you are?
Sony is quite affordable for the bodies, compared to most of the other companies. They offer great value for the money.
…….
Would be a perfect travel companion when I don’t feel like lugging around my A7R.
this: http://camerasize.com/compare/#478,487
and this: http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/media/2014/01/shims-1024×835.jpg
I said it then and say it now, it will be the new A5 NEX-5T replacement. It will be under $1k body only as a guess. Dropping well below $800 during the first 6 months. NEX-5 series is their most popular mirrorless and a5000 was never a replacement for it. Just like A7 replaces NEX-7.
The very fact that this rumoured camera is FF rules it out as a replacement for the NEX-5T. Different market, different price, and it requires FE lenses to work at full potential.
Uhm same market, close on price and who cares what lenses it uses, 99% of 5 series users won’t move beyond the kit lens. Apart from the cheap cryfest whiners on SAR that is 😉 It’s a premium compact camera with top IQ. It isn’t really for ‘photographers’ or at the very least ‘internet photographers’. It will outsell A7 2:1 if not more like 5:1.
So what kit lens are you expecting to use on it? The 28-70mm?
Existing users of the 5T (or any other NEX-5x) with a collection of APS-C only lenses will care very much what lenses it uses.
The 5T launched at $699.00 inc. kit lens. That is not close on price, even if your fantasy body only price of $1K becomes reality.
Well a) there is the FE35 which has huge room to be discounted if Sony wanted to in a ‘kit’ and b) nothing stopping one of those new lenses being a compact 24-50mm f4 or similar. Secondly, I don’t think the NEX-5T etc sold well on price alone, otherwise the 3 series would outsell it. I think that people are prepared to pay for a NEX-5 that is FF if it is compact and relatively simple (with all the bells and whistles of WiFi etc). For those on a budget and wanting APS-C there is the a5000 and a6000, the latter of which is not much more and the former is less expensive than the 5 series.
And as explained it would be a VERY small number of buyers that have a ‘collection of lenses’.
That may be true, but the kit lens only buyers are not going to have any interest in spending a few hundred extra on a compact-FF. The fact they are using the kit lens only suggests they are pretty happy with what they have. As I said, different market.
The ILCE-5100 is already listed doofus and yes the A5000 is the NEX-5T replacement just like the A58 was the A57 replacement. Just because you don’t like it, doesn’t make it not so, get over it.
Thanks Dickbean. I couldn’t care less about the piddly NEX-5 or a5000, but just wait and watch.
The A5000 is more of a successor to the Nex-3, as anyone on this forum will tell you.
Great, I’ll buy one if it will have touchscreen.
are you happy now when new Sonys have (well, a sort of) focus range indicator?
How about a cheap entry-level FF A-Mount camera?
I cannot hear about I need lenses anymore …
There. Are lenses around from Sony, Zeiss, and other third party companies …..
What do you need? 132mm f2.31 …. Or something similarly special?
I know top photographers having 2-3 fixed lenses only, and get 10.000 for a single photograph with a body more than 20 years old.
The E-System doese have plenty and more to come every year …. So what!
Whiners will be whiners (or trolls if you like) anyway…
Sometimes manual focus is not an option. Adapters can cause issues (alignment), especially when paired with a 36MP sensor (look lens rentals.com for an analysis).
“Adapters can cause issues (alignment), especially when paired with a 36MP sensor (look lens rentals.com for an analysis).”
BS. Also the lensrentals guy doesn’t claim anything outrageous like that. Did you even read his article or did you just pick things up from others who read it in some blog’s comments section?
There are many reliable source. http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/09/there-is-no-free-lunch-episode-763-lens-adapters clearly PROVES that problems exists when looking at the borders, Ming Thein is another. Before using unqualified language proof these wrong, please.
As he said, did you READ and UNDERSTAND the article or just the hype (and maybe headlines)?
Citation: “In the examples above, though, center resolution is pretty much unchanged, it’s only when you get away from center that you start to see issues. So someone shooting portraits and centered subjects is unlikely to notice an issue. A landscape photographer, though, would likely see some problems along the edges of the image.” They test only for +/- 12 degrees instead of 30. So things could get worse. There are situations when you don’t see it, but it’s possible (that’s why I said “can cause issues”)
Again, have you used cameras? This is not a problem in the real world. As for Llyod Chambers… he’s the guy who whines and wants to write a petition about how the A7’s menus are so difficult for him to use.
Don’t read things you don’t know the context of.
Again, I don’t say it is always a problem and degrades image quality drastically. For lower resolution cameras it is less of an issue, too. But the D800/A7r are bought for making use of the MP and for printing big. Here it is possible to see it and I try to avoid using adapters if possible. But you are free to use them, of course. I think my comment above was not offensive and not at all against Sony. Don’t understand your immediate drastic reaction.
It’s overblown… just like all problems people on internet forums face with camera they’ve never used.
Again, have you read the article? Roger goes to say that lenses made for short back focus systems might not perform at their best when adapted to other systems with short back focus due to the sensor glass thickness being different. This is something we have all known for a long time. We also know that it’s not that big a deal… although true in theory.
And Ming Thein… nice guy and a good photographer… can’t see how that’s related understanding optics.
There is precisely zero reason for a decently engineered adapter should introduce alignment errors. It’s not rocket science and (for the dumb ones at least) essentially just an extension tube, and you get sets of those which macro-photographers have been happily stacking for years.
The issues with adapters are all about the functional interfacing and the extent to which automatic capabilities work (and that’s often in the nature of the lens). Basic optical issues – that is internal reflections, how “square” the mating faces are to each other and any “slop” in the mounting are simple precision engineering issues.
It could be made, but will cost more than 10 Dollars. We are not talking about mm here. Novoflex is making better ones, but they are not cheap and lightweight.
Yes… I use the Voigtlander 12mm on my a7r using a LTM to M adapter and then a M to E helicoid adapter. It’s not the most solid setup but even then I haven’t experienced any issues. .. and I’m very pedantic.
I do wonder if some of the issues that people think are caused by adapters are just some issues with sensor compatibility, especially with the thickness of the sensor stack (including the protective glass element). We all know that lenses which are “highly non-telecentric” cause issues on high MP count sensors, but it seems that effects might be more subtle.
http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2014/06/sensor-stack-thickness-when-does-it-matter
That’s a different topic all together. Like I said earlier, it also is an issue only with typical short back focus/non-SLR lenses.
Even if the adapter is manufactured to the same tolerance as the original lens and mount you’ve still doubled the potential misalignment.
Precise alignment is only really crucial with ultra wide lenses, but it is crucial with ultra wide lenses.
Macro extension tubes, teleconverters etc. are all used with long lenses with greater depth of focus so alignment issues don’t tend to show up.
The biggest issue with adapters tends to be a tendency to go past infinity focus, which generally isn’t really a problem. Mostly the complaints about adapted lenses tend to be much ado about nothing. Learn to manual focus and you’ll make yourself a much better photographer.
Since I use Voigtländer lenses I’m used to it, but thanks for the advice.
How about just one wide prime in the 14mm – 28mm range, any aperture. Is that too specific a wish?
Sigma DN 19/2.8? (Which I happen to own and find a terriffic lens). Oh, I heard there is also a Sony 20/2.8 pancake… 😉 And since we are at it, there are a few pretty awesome Samyangs too (12/2, 14/2.8, 16/2…).
14/2.8, 16/2 don’t really count, they are SLR designs.
Actually only the 14/2.8 counts as it’s the only prime lens wider than 35mm with an E-mount that projects a large enough image circle to actually cover the sensor of the A7.
And it’s manual focus and manual aperture.
lol, Sony has three for E-mount: 16/2.8, 20/2.8, 24/1.8
and zero of them cover the sensor of the A7.
Mea culpa
The A7 is already a very cheap construction with paper thin plastics. If they make it any thinner and cheaper, good luck to them! I would wait until the price drops by 50% before buying one. The prices do plummet rather quickly.
Spoken like someone that doesn’t own an A7…..Do you realise how retard@d you sound…
I do and I have one taken apart (and put back together, it is being used). Hence the comments. Watch your language!
I am yet to see any issues regarding construction….language used… or otherwise…Cheap nonsense…
While I don’t agree with Gav about his use of the word retarded or his spellings… I do agree that your claim is a bit overblown. Cameras don’t fall apart in your hands the moment you pick them up. Ever thought about the amount of real-world stress you would need to put on an a7 or even a Nex-3 series to actually break one?
“Ever thought about the amount of real-world stress you would need to put on an a7 or even a Nex-3 series to actually break one?”
I do not imagine. I *know* how a NEX-C3 or a NEX-5n is constructed and how strong or fragile they are. It does not take much to break them.
The A7 is even more fragile!
Yeah I’m sure thousands of a7, C3 and 5N bodies fell apart in peoples’ hands after you saw the insides.
It is nice that you appreciate nuances after “deep” thinking. 😉
They do not because there is a new body every few months.
And sony users are guaranteed to upgrade every time a new body comes along?
Even still you make it sound like they don’t last as long as some milk left outside on a summer day… in India! 🙂
Do you use NEX cameras as hammers?
My 5N has a small crack in cover glass because I dropped it. It makes no f%%%ng sense to make camera bodies stronger than glass and electronics which is inside of them, except… to suit camera fetishists.
I don’t think they would design it at a lower material quality.
Take an A7, give it a lower res rear screen, a lower res EVF. Then use a shutter with min 1/4000, slower processor, etc.
In order to not to jeopardize own business, they will probably not go lower than 999 €.
That is reachable with the mods I put above as example. The best A7 offers in goG are somewhere around 1179 €.
However I don’t know why a cheaper than A7 model is required. The price of the A7 is to be seen as very low for FF.
In my opinion they would need some more budget lenses for budget FF camera in order to create an FF entry level market.
The thing about what you’re saying is that there are already a nearly infinite number of budget lens options if you’re willing to go manual focus. I get that AF is a big deal and everybody wants it, but Manual Focus is fun and if you’re willing to forego AF, you have a near unlimited amount of choices in the form of legacy lenses adapted to E mount, many of which are really great and half to a quarter of the price of a lens of similar caliber made today. Point being, there’s really no need to worry about the lack of native lenses when a large part of what makes Mirrorless awesome is the short flange length and the ability to adapt any lens you want.
EDIT: I have no idea why, but this message has been auto filtered.
Could Sony marketing – who never heard of stuff like surveys, focus groups, or any old school market research – be reading SAR and deciding to throw some more FE mud at the wall in the form of a FE without the hump that apparently offends so many? That’d drop the price and the body collectors would have one more to share with their pitiful handful of FE lenses.
yes! it is the new QX FF “camera”.
A QX FF E-mount (with no lens) could be really cool, if it was responsive and functional enough with the phone screen. My ultimate future photography fantasy would be a FF E-mount QX that pairs with some sort of Google Glass. Hold the lens behind your back, focus manually with the Voigtlander 35mm 1.2 (adapted to e-mount), magnify to check focus, and grab a sharp photo without ever looking in direction you’re shooting. The possibilities that would open up….
“The possibilities that would open up….”
Never seen anyone wanting to go to jail that badly… you must have good reasons 😀
Why not just use Play Memories Mobile app instead of waiting for something that might never materialise?
Right now the PlayMemories app isn’t responsive enough to replace the camera screen. I’m hoping wireless technology catches up.
I shoot candids often. The more stealth the camera, the better.
Oh now it has to be a FF QX camera with a fast refresh rate too? 🙂
Well then are you currently using a wired external monitor? Or are you trying to invent ways to not do things now? 🙂
I was looking towards the future. I don’t expect this tech around the corner. I’m not waiting for it. I’m enjoying my A7s. I am waiting for this supposed NEX-5 style FF. That would make an incredible backup/travel/socializing camera.
Why are you trolling?
So, whining about a feature that you don’t even need currently is not trolling?
He’s trolling here because nobody reads his own blog.
ROFL just because it was too advanced for you to read don’t think everyone else is as low functioning 😀
So no new information…
NEX-5 style Full Frame – Hoping hoping hoping hoping
I would rather have an A-mount FF with a body size of the A7.
That’s like saying you want a 396 big block in the size of a 396 small block 😀
Ahh…. not really, dude.
So by your logic, just replacing the E bayonet on an A7 with an A bayonet would just do? lol
Bzzzzt… wrong answer but thanks for playing.
You’ve been hanging out on SAR longer than I and if you can’t figure out the advantages/disadvantages of mirrorless versus SLTs you’re hopeless, dude. ;^)
Stupid things I can expect EarlFargis to say?
*ding* *ding* *ding*
Utterly impossible. You can’t reduce the size of the mirror box as A-Mount lenses have to be mounted that far from the sensor or they simply will not focus at infinity. In fact, you’d be luck to be able to focus on anything a metre away.
I Sony had been able to design a camera using A-Mount, why do you think they’d go to the trouble of designing a completely new one?
It’s possible (albeit very costly): they can use an array of focal reducers xD
Or you can design a camera where sensor, like collapsible lens, moves posterior to camera body when turned on.
Well since it is referred to anonymous sources, let me be another anonymous source who says. No, it´s the high end Alpha 9. 😉
While Sony is doing some good stuff with E mount A mount is has atrophied.
The E mount system is still not fully compatable with anything but native E mount…everything else involves compromises as they only..sort of work…
A mount lenses will probably always be lacking in some directions such as long telephoto and tele macro leses..and I dont see that changing since it is not thier emphasis.
If Sony truly wants to move towards E mount and phase out A mount the must build something FULLY compatable with A mount..most noticeably with full high speed focus compatability and IBIS.
If Sony actually does intend to continue A mount as another parallel system they are currently falling short of that goal.
My hope would be that we will see the next generation of sensor tech on A mount first..as I see no other reasonable justification for the apparent A mount neglect.
It is most frustrating that stuff available for years is unavailable to A mount users such as 36mp.
Perhaps Sony now plans to skip it altogether and go directly to the rumored 54mp stacked sensor…Canon may very well force that choice on them this September.
“tele macro Ljubljana enses”.
I’m sorry, what?
Just a minor little stroke, no big deal.
This is unbelievable… you did manage to squeeze in the stacked sensor to this post too.
Why not a 3 sensor camera, Barry? It’s a lot easier to get a good product now that way than via the stacked approach.
it seems to me that you changed your opinion about 3 sensor cameras?
Since when?
Sony fumbled the a-mount system they bought off Minolta, lost interest, and never fully developed the system. They ran off and started the e-mount APS-C system and even quicker lost interest in it. Like the a-mount, they consolidated bodies. Now it’s full speed ahead on FEs. If this rumor is true then we’ll end up with more FE bodies than either APC-C lines which is counterintuitive since FFs tend to be more expensive and a smaller market. Sure FE lenses work on all e-mounts but there’s little expectation Sony e-mount lens line-up will ever match Sony’s a-mount meager also-ran selection.
We can laugh at Canikon foot-dragging and lack of innovation but they definitely understand the importance of system support, an area where Sony is clueless. 2 guys at work are getting into DSLRs. Both come to me for advice but won’t consider Sony and took the easier choice of Canon where there simply are more choices for lenses – doesn’t matter if they only plan to buy cheap kit/start zooms – it’s all about aspiration when attracting photo noobs.
Earl Fargis, you don’t realy believe what you are writing are you?
Sony lost interest in the A-Mount? They came with an very innovative new camera, the A77m2 just reacently, and rumors for the new A99 are out there too! Only the low range A-mount users are not getting a new camera at the moment, what is not that strange as Sony said that the A-mount is more for the high end users.
Then APS E-mount, Sony just came with the A6000, a camera that is accepted as very good and that is just a few months available, So how do you see that they areloosing interest?
Then the FF E-mount lenses. It makes sense that Sony will come with FF lenses now they have a FF camera. They showed interest in the APS Emount by making the FF mirrorless compatible with the APS mirrorless range, so we can use the lenses we want on both cameras (On the FF cameras in cropmode for the APS lenses). So Sony is doing what Canon and Nikon are doing for their DSLR range of cameras: Make FF lenses that fit on both, make those lenses in APS that are needed for the smaller sensors (mostly kit lenses and WA lenses)
Canon hasa whooping 16 APS lenses for their DSLRs, 6 of then are 18-55mm kit lenses, 2 of them 55-250mm lenses and 2 of then are 18-35 lenses. What makes the total amount of real choice just 9 APS lenses (less then 10% of all the Canon lenses) None of these lenses are prime and just 0ne is a 2.8 zoom lens… Sony has 12 APS lenses for their E-mount 5 are primes…
A77Ii is not a new camera just a remake of an old camera with a few improvements that managed to trickle down from E mount.
Thats why it does not have a new name..just a77Ii
What improvements trickled down from e-mount?
Barry, Can you explain when a camera is new and when it is a remake? Personal I think it is a real new camera when major parts in the camera are new. For the A77m2 that is there is a totaly new processor (Bionz X) a totaly new AF unit, a new designed Sensor (with capless microlenses), a new LCD screen (higher resoluton), build in WIFI and some minor changes too… Yes the processor is the same as used in the latest E-mount cameras, but the sensor is not (it has no PD pixels) the PD AF system is not (as the E-mount has no separte PD unit)
I think Sony would not do the trouble to design a new PDAF system when they would abandon the A-mount any time soon. The A99m2 will come out too, so I do expect a A5x camera…
And about the name? Sony went for the RX100 and RX1 for a system with a following number,so maybe that is what they do for the A line now too?
Can’t argue with that.
What Barry means is that the camera doesn’t have the sensor that he personally demanded. Therefore any other improvements, no matter how great, are completely overlooked.
You really think the upgrades of the a77II are “great”? Seriously?
I wasn’t making a judgement either way.
But anyone requiring a faster, more accurate and more advanced AF system may well see the upgrades as “great”. The AF system in the A77 was like all recent PDAF A-mounts – pretty average.
While I cannot define an absolute deviding line between an upgrade and a new camera..
To me…same name, same body, same resolution..and mostly the same funtions…
Make the a77II an upgrade rather than a new camera.
Even Sony when speaking of this camera refers to it as an upgrade of the a77.
Why would you start off a statement asking me if I believe what I’m writing? Really.
If you read what I wrote, you could easily answer your own questions. The fact that the only way I can respond is basically repeating what I said in response proves you’re just doing some knee-jerk fanboy spew.
The a6000 makes my case. It’s a consolidation of their product line which has cheesed of many e-mount fans who keep crying for a NEX-7 replacement. The a77II, again, is an example of product consolidation. My a65 is orphaned with no planned replacement. Meanwhile, they’re pumping out endless FE bodies: the a7, a7R, a7S and now this rumored (not sure I agree with Admin’s assessment) budget FE – more budget than the a7 even.
Visit Canon’s web site and look at their lens line-up. Then look at Sony’s – I recommend a-mount lenses since it’s the most complete line-up – and if you can’t see the difference you’re hopeless. I’m so frustrated with Sony’s lenses I’ve switched to picking up old Minolta lenses on Fleabay. Sad to say, Minolta in the ’80s and ’90s has a far better line-up than Sony does today. Yeah, Sony’s fumbled that ball badly.
I forget, does this mean we’ve got more full frame bodies than lenses yet?
Don’t forget about Sony’s new curved sensors that will significantly reduce the size, weight, and cost of lenses as we know it. If they chose to release an ILC body with a curved sensor, many current lens configurations will be obsolete or they may only stick around for nostalgia, along with clunky adapters. It’s pretty tough to maintain an industry standard system nowadays when technology is changing so rapidly. I’m beginning to think investing in the integrated lens and body systems (e.g. RX Series) maybe a better choice, and then keep buying the latest version every year. That way I don’t get stuck with expensive, incompatible, obsolete lens systems.
The curved sensor will only work on a fixed lens. If they try to create a curved sensor that bends with different reach lenses the distortion would be too hard to internally anticipate and you’d get some very strange image distortion. About the only thing that might currently work, is an interchangeable curved sensor prototype, that you swap when you change the lens, but this would be a waste of time, as it would become a ludicrously expensive system.
True, but Sony has not only patents for curved sensors, but also light field sensors as well. If implemented together they could compensate for multi-focal lenses simply through onboard processing. That would be interesting. Another interesting development in fixed lens technology, is the completely flat lens made of silicon and gold that the Harvard School of Engineering has been developing. Although it has yet to be applied to photography it doesn’t seem very far off.
Offer it in a kit with the 35 2.8. Oh wait…
if this is NEX5 body like FF camera with only about 14 MP with exceptional low light performance, take my money Sony! 🙂
Does anyone else think it might be better for Sony to be announcing some more FF E mount glass before they introduce any more cameras?
Welcome to how Sony do things, us A-mount users have had years of it.
For my sins I’m an A mount user as well – good job too, otherwise the range of autofocus lenses I could use would be completely rubbish. However putting an A mount lens onto an A7 series camera with a LAEA4 adaptor makes the combination big and heavy – negating one of the main reasons for having a mirrorless camera in the first place. Attached is a photo of my A7R with the Sony 16mm Fisheye – one of the smaller A mount lenses. So, for the time being, my A7R remains an interesting experiment. I use my A6000 and OMD for travelling and my A99 in the studio.
I would use the same approach but with the SAL50F14 and SAL28F28. Those are really small!
Yeah, just as I thought. That adaptor is huge and a bit ridiculous. I’m sure it works fine but no way in hell am I going to throw my Zeiss glass on that thing- especially the 135mm. So what do I do (rambling to myself again). I sold my a900 yesterday and now I’m FF’less. If I go e mount it’s got to be all native lenses- no adaptors unless manual focus voigtlander or leica glass. 55 I can deal with- 35mm is decent but no 85 or 135. Damn, you just can’t have it all. I’ll wait until Photokina to make up my mind. For now I’ll just use the M43 stuff I have- (rambling again…..)
Would you buy into any of the possible Zeiss manual focus lenses to be released?
I certainly buy into Zeiss releasing FF E mount lenses, but I see no reason why they need to be manual focused; their Touit lenses show what can be done. The 12mm is one of my fave lenses on my A6000.
what can be done — you mean overpriced, oversized lenses with mediocre IQ at given price?
Camera development and lens development are not interchangeable. You can’t simply move resources from one to another as the skills required, the manufacturing setup and so on are largely non-transferable. Also, every lens has to be designed individually. You can’t just reuse the lens elements from one lens into a different one. I suspect there’s a bottleneck in lens design and the skills required are in short supply.
In comparison, cameras are assembled from common parts in families. The A7 all use essentially the same body and major modules, like the shutter, sensor mounting, battery, EVF, rear screen and so on. It’s therefore much easier to produce a new camera as a variation on a theme. Also, mirror-less systems cameras have few moving parts and no complex optics. As such, the skills will be readily transferable from other consumer electronics devices. There are specialist
In short, much easier to produce a new camera than a new lens and the former also has a much shorter lifespan in production. You might say a digital camera body is for Christmas (well, maybe two or three Christmases), whilst a lens is for life….
Well, you are certainly right. That is a problem. And what do we do with problems? We solve them. Who solves the problems of this kind? Managers do. If you know that people starve for new lenses, then you create a strategy for making those lenses. You hire more staff, you outsource the lens production to another factory, you DO something… Unfortunately, Sony is doing nothing on this field, except making the problem worse with creating full frame e-mount cameras.
Sony already outsource some lens design and production. If the problem is industry demand, it takes time to fix.
Also, one of the big selling points is the ability to adapt alien lenses to the mount. I suspect that rather than wait for sufficient new FF lenses to be designed, Sony has to produce the EF mount cameras in order to avoid being upstaged by another manufacturer.
Anyway, it’s primarily Sony’s commercial issue and their strategy. If it’s unsatisfactory, people will vote with their feet.
But e-mount is almost 5 years old, and certainly had a few more years
of development. Even if Sony was certain that the concept would fail, five years after, they are competing for the title of the most selling system in Japan and Korea. Isn’t that convincing enough to start thinking about a strategy for making more lenses? Their management should be fired along with marketing department…
According to my count, there appear to be 19 native E mount (including FF lenses). I simply don’t think that Sony will re-engineer (at this stage) A-Mount lenses where there there will be no significant reduction in bulk. For instance, an FF E-Mount 70-200 f2.8 is going to be pretty well the same physical size as the A-Mount lens+adapter. The distance from the sensor and the lens diameter are essentially defined by the basic optical design, speed and focal length.
Anyway, we’ll see. As I say, if the strategy doesn’t work, people will vote with their feet.
nb. E-Mount is not yet 5 years old. The first camera was announced in May 2010, so it’s a little over 4 years old.
Sony’s roadmap shows 5 new FE E-mount lenses per year for a total of 15 new lenses by 2015. If they are really able to fullfill that, it could win other brand users over. There is a large group of people wanting native FE-mount lenses of various focal lengths as well as fast zooms. I don’t think (although I hope for that) that Nikon or Canon is having a FF mirror less by 2015 with 15 lenses. For people wanting to be lighter on average Sony will probably be the only FF mirror less system option. As I am in for another FF I will go with a D810 now, as Sony doesn’t have the native lenses I want and need NOW. But I guess the resell value of the D810 will be high enough in 2016 to reconsider.
If either Nikon or Canon were to announce a mirrorless FF model, then they’d be faced with exactly the same problem as Sony (assuming that it used a new mount to provide a more compact camera). They would be faced with the problem of producing a completely new range of lenses in a short time and the reality is surely, like Sony, they would have to rely on adapters to extend that range to the legacy mount.
Neither Canon or Nikon would suddenly be able to produce 20 new lenses to completely new optical designs, and they would also face the issue that the great majority of their customer base were heavily invested in the old system.
The option remains open to design a mirrorless camera which just uses the same mount will just forgo the mirror and OVF, but I see little appetite for that as it will remain bulky and would be handicapped by the existing lens range being suboptimal.
I can’t see the M43 manufacturers launch an FF as they would have even more of a problem.
Of course, there’s Leica, but that lacks AF and they aren’t really in the market.
So I’d concur. It’s not obvious who else would produce a new FF compact camera. Possibly a company might license E-Mount from Sony, but that would cost a lot in royalties (and I don’t count Hasselblad).
Hm, Fuji is certainly not faster. Nor were Minolta, Nikon, Canon etc. back then. The current lens lineup of DSLRs (and SLTs) were built in centuries(!). The current speed of how many lenses per year are developed is mugh higher than before.
Canon were much faster, they released 13 EF lenses within 9 months of launch of the system, and had 26 lenses within two and a half years.
I can’t dispute your point from a technical point of view. However three A7 cameras plus one to follow, and only two prime lenses that fit them directly is something that simply has to be sorted by Sony.
Money, however is interchangable – if they planned in advance they could have hired more staff in the lens department and fewer in camera bodies to achieve a more reasonable lens to body ratio!
Sony is currently laying off people not hiring.
So you don’t believe that Sony will announce a bunch of lenses by the end of this year?
At Photokina Zeiss will announce 4-5 FF E-mount lenses. Expect Sony to announce at least three more lenses, A Macro G, the FE 16-35 and a fast portrait prime…
If they do this they are sticking to the roadmap, do you think that the roadmap is not ambitious enough, and are examples of company who have developed a system much quicker?
Canon released 13 lenses in the first 9 months of the EF system. This included prime, zoom, fisheye, telephoto and macro lenses from 15mm to 300mm
In comparison Sony only managed five, with no wide prime, macro, fisheye or telephoto prime.
Not quite the same – Sony put out two new full frame adapters so dozens of Sony / Minolta lenses can be used with no loss of lens functionality including excellent primes of many focal lengths.
Sony released over 20 lenses in the first -36 months of the E-mount system. This included prime, zoom, fisheye, telephoto and macro lenses from 15mm to 300mm.
Unfair comparison.
EF’s flange distance is similar to FD’s, so releasing lenses for EF was just adapting them to autofocus whereas Sony needs completely new designs for E-mount.
Look instead how many lenses Canon released for their EF-M system.
Canon had option to simply add focus motors to existing FD lenses and repackaging them. Whereas Sony needs completely new designs for E-mount.
And now fair comparison: how many lenses Canon released for their EF-M system?
I believe in what Sony are doing, otherwise I would not have ditched all my Canon gear in favour of Sony a couple of years ago, having been a Canon devotee since my EOS 650 back in 1984. As such I wouldn’t consider myself a crybaby; I would just like to see a better balance between lenses and cameras as there is in A and E mount, with a bit of help from third parties like Zeiss and Sigma and legacy glass from Monolta.
I’m with you. The lack of lenses is for the E-mount what Thom has been discussing recently as “the one disqualifying” thing.
The gaps are huge. By far not all lenses are good. Some are great., though. The pancakes are bad.
I’ve come to think they simply don’t have the people to do lenses. Electronics, yes, but optics, no. That’s also why they have outsourced so much of the design to Zeiss. Who take their cut, of course.
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Thank you for reiterating the biggest crybaby complaint that we keep hearing every day. How bout something original.
This post is original. Let me see- wow, lots of good points on this one. Just checked, I don’t think you’ve posted anything substantial on this thread. Please hand the IPAD back over to your mom and get off the internet.
Come on SONY!! Just put the A7 sensor into the A6000, then u will have all my money!!! XD
It won’t fit through the front window.
I tot they both same e-mount?
Sensor is mounted from the rear
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWKPLAtdLaw
Why no news about the A99 Mk2?
Because it is an imaginary camera that Sony knows nothing about?
And neither do you apparently.
Good. Then I am in contact with reality 🙂
Because it’s probably going to just be a warmed over A99 with a 36MP sensor. Overpriced and lacking in any serious upgrades. I await the same thing- but I’m not expecting much.
We should be asking- where is the A99S and A99M as well.
If you only had a clue, some of the stupidest post ever. Are you trying to overtake Shitmeal as the biggest as*hol* on the board?
Take the telephoto lens out of your asss and STFU.
Also wondering
Because Sony has put tighter controls on rumors it’s feeding to SAR so we’ll get leaks about 2 weeks before Sony is ready to do a formal announcement as a teaser. Sony is foot-dragging on the A99II to align it to around Photokina. You won’t get any news worth squat on it until late August.
Just noticed the a7/35mm kit is going for about £1800, so this could be significantly cheaper than the rx1…
I’d like to see the cybershot build quality applied to the A7 series. That and redesign that god aweful looking EVF hump.
Great, turn the A7 into a point and shoot. Brilliant!
Please read up on the following article. You seem to be confused:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point-and-shoot_camera
I’ve been testing an a7s since yesterday. I’m used to the sharp, comfortable a99 EVF. The a7s EVF quality is on par, though slightly less comfortable on the face. If reducing the hump makes it less comfortable, lessens quality or gives it a smaller viewing experience it would be a truly idiotic design choice.
It simply makes sense and I cannot see the hump when I’m looking into it. It’s a good camera for photographers, Leica still owns the market of aesthetes.
Yeah, good point. I’ve downloaded a few A7S files and am impressed. You can jack the shadows up like 3 stops no problem and very little noise. It’s like turning on the lights. Although, I’m still more attracted to the A7R. Honestly, haven’t tried either and now I will. Need a new full frame and soon.
I rented an a7r for some interior shoots (to use Canon TS lenses). The achievable quality is fantastic. With the fast AF and low light ability the a7s is more of a handheld performance camera whereas the a7r is better to a slow pace of shooting, perhaps on a tripod, etc.
I could raise shadows with my former Pentax K-5 up to 4 stops with very little noise. So, it is not really a unique feature, there are numerous cameras on market that are superior in this aspect over the A7S.
Same given volume, the design with hump takes more space in a bag. Size advantage is one of few mirrorless camera advantages Sony which Sony uses.
So how many pros moved to A7* cameras from CaNikon?
I don’t know, but I do know that I never forget that I have a canon 1d body, lens & flash on my shoulder whereas I generally forget that an a7 is on me. It’s certainly a fantastic second body and potentially a great primary body for many.
Canon could have simply put a FF sensor in 1100D-like body and it would be same in size as A7.
Does it exist?
I don’t think Sony knows what to do with Alpha mount. On the one hand, they don’t have the money to upgrade everthing to SSM. After the 135mm you’re still stuck with screw drive for the 85mm and still no 20mm Zeiss option- IMO that’s a gap. If your paying this kind of money you want state of the art- pure and simple.
Telephoto lenses still not being produced- 300 F4 and a 400 F4.5. They will be expensive, but that’s not the consumers problem. Sony should be making these lenses and offering options. Lets not even talk about the pricing issues with G series lenses.
Camera bodies? I’m ok with the A77II but you now have your pro series cameras being outperformed in e mount bodies. This should not be- period. You’ve done nothing in the past year to squelch distrust and uncertainty. you still haven’t fixed the A99 flash problem. Add to that the ongoing stigma of SLT tech and the closing gab in mirrorless AF performance.
Let’s be honest, what can you really do at this point?
I guess the A99 flash problem will be fixed by the A99II, they certainly fixed my A77 problems with the A77II, I’ve shot a lot of flash recently and using same external flash it is spot on!
I’d buy the A77II as I loved the A77. But, I just don’t see the point given I have mostly FF glass- to many options out there. But, I do plan on trying it out- just have to give it at least one quick spin.
You could try killing yourself to end the misery.
What a useful reply. Oh whilst you are at it – why don’t you tell us a-mount is dead.
On the inside, I’m already dead. That’s why I might go shoot with Canon full frame- no soul.
I’m sorry, this news item is about E-mount camera. Why start talking about A-mount lenses? Are you mad?
Yes honey, I like your dress. By the way, did you know that A-mount lenses don’t have built-in image stabilization? Let’s talk about lens prices. Hey wait, why are you leaving?
Just to be pedantic, the Sigma 120-400mm has optical stabilisation. 🙂
There is an ongoing discount in my local store for the Zeiss 135mm f/1.8, so I believe, one of the things we have seen as rumors in the past few months about the SAL135F18Z being replaced is correct. Got mine when the discount offer began. I would like it to have SSM and Weatherseals, I will stick with the old version for a while.
speaking of needing more lens announcements, from a manufacturing point of view, how difficult would it be for zeiss, sony, ect to change the mount type on all these supposedly wonderful a-mount lenses to offer an e-mount variant of existing already developed tried and true lenses? is there a bunch of other stuff involved besides just sticking an fe/e-mount mount on the end of it in assembly?
Different flange distance
The flange distance isn’t the same (distance between the back of the lens to the sensor plan). If you wear glasses try to put them 3cm away from your eyes and you will understand.
They could do that, problem is it would cause all the cry babies to complain the lenses are too big.
ha. i bet. just can win hunh? who cares if lenses are big..? use small lenses if your wrists are delicate..i can hold up the 85 f/1.2L attached to the a7r for at least 4 minutes before my arm cramps up and my wrist compound fractures… i say bring it on.
If you don’t mind the size then the additional length that the laea4 adds will be negligible to you.
They compain already… So no change there 😉
in FE70-200/4 the rear element is so remote from sensor so it could be a DSLR design as well.
Yes, there’s a bunch of other things involved besides simply changing mounts. It’s basically making an axe yielding orangutan talking with a chainsaw operating chimp. Ok, that may be a bit over the top, but it expresses my confidence in Sony not doing such a thing.
Another entry level FF E-mount? Where is the entry level A-mount for people like me who already have several A mount lenses???? And the lenses I use (24-70, 85, 135, 70-200 F2.8) not even available in E-mount. If I use the LA-EA4 adapter, it will use the inferior AF on the adapter, but not the faster on sensor PDAF like on A6000. Sony, you want existing A-mount users to jump ship to Canon and Nikon?
Jump frog.
I think the writing is on the wall for A-mount, unfortunately. It doesn’t seem profitable for them to keep supporting it, when true mirrorless cams for E-mount cost so much less to manufacture. LensRentals did a really good write-up about just how simple the A7 is to make.
How does that explain the release of the latest lenses such as the 50Z, 500G, and the rumored 400G (developed with Olympus?)? Isn’t the Barry cam going to be A-mount?
It appears to be profitable enough to spend a shed load of money on developing the A77II. The R&D put into that new PDAF system isn’t going to be cheap and that technology can not be transferred into an mirrorless body either, it was developed exclusively for cameras WITH the SLT mirror.
The evidence for Sony keeping SLT and A-mount is overwhelming yet people are still saying Sony are ditching it. I just don’t get what goes through peoples heads, there have been rumours of Sony withdrawing from dSLR since the A100 in 2006………..
I want nagging A-mount users to jump ship to Canon and Nikon.
Be careful what you wish for. If that really happened then there wouldn’t be a commercially viable A-mount.
A6000 form factor plus zeiss 24mm f2,8 or faster on the press release and…please take my money
Dreams come true, YEAH!
If this turns out to be true it will be the most boring, disappointing end to a mystery since The Village.
There is a fantastic collection of E mount cameras available, and a fantastic collection of A mount lenses…they dont work too well together.
You are wrong Barry, they work great! No complaints here. It must be you…
You can make them work but must make compromises so they do not work GREAT.
First and foremost ..no image stabilzation.
With 3rd party lenses the focus is slower than with native E mount.
With A mount you need to stick this redicilous gadjet with a mirror and batteries in between your lens and camera..like putting one camera in front of another then sticking a lens on it….there are many colrfull ways I could descrbe it but WORKS GREAT is definitely not the description I would choose.
Wrong again, no batteries in the adapters. If you want credibility, stop spewing bs.
So far I tested a minolta 35-70 and a Sony 85mm 2.8 on an a7s via the la-ea4 adapter this week and they worked well on it. The insane sensitivity of the a7s more than compensates for the lack of stabilization. I’m going to test out my SSM lenses within the next couple of days.
Really long lenses and macro will prove more problematic..in fact back in the film days I never experienced camera shake issues with wide normal or portrait lenses even with fairly long exposures. And I managed with long lenses and macro but not as easy.
But my comment that use of anything except native E mount involves compromises still holds true.
Unless it’s an inanimate still life, slowing down the shutter speed has a reasonable limit before slight subject movement results in blur (regardless of stabilization) whereas increasing ISO is only limited by what one accepts as a reasonable amount of noise. If you are shooting at ISO 1600 / 1/40th with IBIS then you can do 1/160th & 6400, etc. Ultimately / eventually this fantastic sensitivity and future improvements can mitigate the need for stabilization IBIS or OSS.
No. There is a theoretical limit because the light IS NOISY by its NATURE. If it turns out wrong, that will be a larger breakthrough in physics than those of Einsten.
The theoretical limit is well above the mechanical limit for ibis / OSS Shake compensation.
does 6400 ISO on A7S look like 1600 ISO on A99?
It is at least as good. The noise performance is even superior to the canon 1dx (I compared them side by side).
Care to prove with some 6400 A7S ISO vs. 1600 ISO A99 comparison?
No I do not care to prove it for you or anyone else. However I do intend to test and compare my a99 and the a7s because I rented it to prove it for myself. I will share some test shots with those who have a genuine interest beyond cynicism.
Someone needs to release small but really sharp f/4-f/5 primes for such camera
You mean Pentax ?
This is exactly what I thought – the Pentax Limited Series of lenses. I
am just not sure if such compact lenses can be designed for the E-mount
short flange distance, i.e. to be mounted so close to the sensor.
Any update about this camera?