The following rumor has been sent to me be a new source I am in contact with for a couple of months. He is a new source and we still have to see if he is telling us the truth or not. That’s why you have to take everything here with a huge grain of salt. I am sure the first NEX-FF photocamera is coming in October and I posted two SR5 rumors (read one and read two).
What you read now is ranked SR2 (20-40% chance it may be correct). The new source said he got it via “friends”, he is not directly involved with Sony. So even if he could be honest…he may didn’t get the right info. Anyway, it’s a rumor site and sometimes even new source proved to be correct. Let’s see in one month if that new source will become one of my trusted 🙂
This is what he writes about the NEX-FF:
– ibis /5 axis/ up to 4,5 stops gain
– similiar design with nex-7 but some 15% more massive /in terms of dimensions and some 20% more weight than 7
– 1400 focus points, much improved metering
– 3,5,8,12 fps modes, also something they called ‘mega fast mode’ 14 pcs
– 1 new flash unit
– 1/4000sec
– ‘improved video’ /whatever that means/
– new chip. Now, about chip, it will be decided which version will be implemented – 24, 32 or 36 mpix, the best results /speed and accuracy/ was achieved with 32 mpix chip, the most vivid colours and iso were with 24mpix and 36mpix is not so 10+ on tests. Also, this chip is little slower when put on ibis system.
– buffer – at least 1gb
– wifi – yes
– 3” screen, articulated in 3 axis
– 2 colours /black and some gray version/
– some new global software support
– new small adapter for a lenses
– New Oled EVF
I repeat, don’t take this too serious now. But if (I repeat “if”) he is sharing the correct specs that is definitely going to be a nice camera! I hope trusted sources can soon tell me if these specs are correct, close to correct or wrong. Thanks!!!
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Reminder (SR = Sonyrumor):
SR1=probably fake rumor
SR2=rumor from unknown sources
SR3=50% chance it is correct
SR4=rumor from known sources
SR5=almost certainly correct!
176 Responses
hmm sounds like a dream camera 🙂
1/4000 sec shutter speed doesn’t sound great for a camera +$3K
If I ever spent $3K on a camera , i sure wouldn’t want it to have ‘mega fast mode’ written on he front …
1/4000 with and ordinary shutter sux, global shutter otoh …
But some ofthe strange parts (1/4000, slower readout due to IBIS etc.) almost make it believable.
I agree.
At least they shud have replicated speed of Nikon 1…..1/8000 mechanical and 1/16000 electronic shutter
Sounds like my own wish list, maybe too nice to be true. Let’s see in one month. Any news about this sensor shift?
no SR5 news yet.
Perhaps, Z-shift in ILC-9000 then?
Think Z-shift will only be on the DSLR like bodies Axxxx and mirrorless A-mount when they come out in 2014
WISHLIST – Admin you mentioned – – 1 new flash unit
Any info is appreciated. – Please say it is
Functionally above the current SONY hvl-F60 Flash Unit Flagship.
If this is the finest Sony can provide,in a full year since MIS intro
Sony Camera is doomed.
also
SAR READERS QUESTION – Your help appreciated –
We need to find and test multiple work arounds for the
SONY highly proprietary MIS Multi-Interface comm port shoe
and the poor flashes.
We hear that some SONY MIS based Shoe cameras –
sometimes be able to TRIGGER other flash units which
Might Allow other NON-Sony Flash units to be used (even if NON-TTL)
MAY WE ASK??
What are you experiences with this and
what flash units from
What manufactures might work?
Are you finding ANY ebay electronics adapters available?
Hearing “Sometimes” be able to TRIGGER in the SONY proprietary MIS shoe
Is a concern to us
Clearly we need to eliminate points of failure
We need Flash units that work every time
The HVL-F60 overheating and MIS proprietary port is terrible
and we need to find a work around.
SONY support is recommending we buy more flashes as back ups – Nice.
We have three and they just do not cool down.
Of course long ago, We have tried battery swap outs for cool batteries.
Clearly this issue is ripe for quick electronics adapter.
SAR READERS – Your help is appreciated, we would like to get back to TTL
Thank You.
I have used multiple nikon sb28 and a sb80 with my nex-6. I used a pixel attached to the sony minolta adapter that was attached to the nex-6. I used a pc cord from the receiver to the sb28. I used velcro to attach the receiver to the sb28 since the receiver uses the minolta shoe. This worked fine but I sold my set of pixel trigger and receivers to get a set that were made for nikon/canon. I figured it would be easier since they used regular hot shoe and I could just connect the trigger directly to my nex-6 without the adapter and both the trigger and receiver used aaa batteries.
I liked my other setup better even though it had more steps. It seams to me the pixel triggers were more reliable. I plan to purchase another set and do it how I had it before. The second set was not a pixel brand.
THANK YOU. –
The specs don’t sound unreal, but we should know for sure when the camera or cameras are officially announced next month. I just hope there are more than a couple of lenses made available for the FF E mount Nex when it goes on sale
1400 focus points. Dont belive this
Bazillion focus points sounds better..:D
What are those?
Not really impossible if they use on-sensor-PDAF. If one point = one pixel, it is about 0.0014mp of the total of 32mp sensor.
Canon 70D has 20.000.000 focus points
that says “super mega fast” all over it 🙂
With CDAF they could have as many points as they want.
These don’t necessarily have to be “points” in the same sense they are on conventional DSLRs. I’ve seen many cameras that have square regions for contrast detect AF. But if it’s 1400, they’re likely talking about on-sensor phase detect pixels. Like others have said, if you’re going to have 24 or more million pixels, a manufacturer sparing 1400 of them for AF is imaginable.
There’s no way Sony hasn’t decided what sensor they are using for a camera that is going to be announced in October. I wouldn’t believe this guy at all, unless his sources got that information some time ago, in which it may be somewhat accurate but still outdated.
Yep, exactly what I was thinking. Plus I don’t believe all that rubbish about “vivid colours” etc. and I’m yet to be convinced it will have IBIS (I hope I’m wrong).
Oh, and ‘mega fast mode’? Just LOL.
Another thing, “Also, this chip is little slower when put on ibis system”. What is that supposed to mean?
My guess, it is because more data has to be read and processed very fast to calculate IBIS next correction.
I think this “mega fast mode” will work with JPEGs only.
Only the 1400 focus points and the gray version sound new to me, the rest was already speculated since months – and indeed it describes nearly also my dream camera.
At $3000 I will buy it in a heartbeat if it plays nice with my M lenses.
+1 !
No way i want this one for 2000$ with a 24Mpx sensor, 2500$ for 32 Mpx and 3000$ for 36 Mpx model and Zshift.
if it s more i will snap Sony CEO’s head 😉
PS: 2000$ = 2000€ = 2000£ to not request too much to Sony 😉
1/4000? That’s rubbish. Should be 1/8000.
yep, if true that’s one of the very few disappointments.
no need, there will be slow zeiss with it 😛
Was this deliberately made up to make it less “too good to be true”? hehehehe
+1. that’s slow
That’s crap, a camera price 2k+ for body only should have 1/8000 and at least 1/250 flash sync! ISO50 is also welcome. I do miss that stuff on D600 some times (except for iso). No wonder D600 is not considered pro…
Relax, 1/4000 is the flash sync speed.. because it will has global electronic shutter. LoL. (SR1)
C’mon dude Sony rep just called me to ensure flash sync is 1/16000 and cam is compatible with all flash systems including remote switch for sun (SR6) %P
My NEX-VG900 has 30-1/8000 in still mode and 1/10,000 in video mode.
Will the IBIS be in both proclaimed NEX FF models? The budget and high end one? Or how should I understand these specifications? Will there be only one FF model?
>15% more massive
>20% more weight
>video specs: better – Whatever that means
Sounds legit.
>15% more massive
>20% more weight
with FF sensor and added 5 axis IBIS, sounds to good to be true.
Interested in adapter for alpha lens，will it be FF version of EA-LA2?
Hardly. My bet for LA-EA3 with motor.
Yeah.. adapter with built-in motor is inevitable if they want to replace dedicated A-mount camera with E-mount + adapter.
If Sony release an “LA-EA4” with built-in motor, the important part is will it be based on SLT technology and have its own PDAF module, or will the NEX-FF’s on-sensor PDAF be good enough to focus A-mount lenses properly (including older screw driven lenses)?
I guarantee that if this thing ships within next 6 months, resolution has been fixed before summer. It takes months to bring the product to production, prepare it and arrange component sourcing. All components must be ordered min 3 to 4 months before manufacturing starts. This line alone make the whole rumour looks suspect.
really like dream camera to me.. if this true i will be happy 🙂
>> new small adapter for a lenses
Off-Topic:
Couldn’t be the big surprise (mentioned yesterday) a speed-booster like A-mount adapter for APS-C E-mount cameras?
I mean A-mount FF to E-Mount APS-C with speed booster and full AF
(just dreaming?)
IMO –
SB is BS for most uses, except for low light shooting and some kind of portraiture.
It can’t be general purpose tool.
Why not? With SB, FF lenses get back their original FoV, uncropped. It’s probably slower being manual focus only combination, but so are other manual lenses adapted to NEX body.
Yep, just dreaming. Sony would not want to impact on their own FF camera sales.
I don’t think they put ibis stabilisation. Too many lenses with optical stabilisation.
And for now none of adaptors can use without some compromises.. so i don’t believe now can be different, with using fullframe lenses from a-system.
Ah cool, can you point me to a full frame (FE) E-Mount lens with OIS? Ta muchly
What about the auto-focusing feature for legacy manual lenses
I think that is an exclusive feature of the ICLE-models.
Doesn’t fit into the compact NEX form factor.
What do you mean auto focus legacy manual lenses?
The shifty sensor,shown some threads ago, moves back&forward, and it should allow auto focus on manual lenses. Usually I call legacy lenses those little MF jewels from Voigtländer, Leica, Zeiss.
Has the purpose of sensor shift ever been confirmed? I’d assumed it was designed to accommodate lenses with longer flange distance (which could be a feature of the hybrid mount). I get that it could have a knock on of allowing af on mf lenses, but I can’t really see how that benefits Sony (who’d prefer you to buy an af lens from them instead).
I think it could appeal those who already own M mount lenses (as I do) but don’t want/like/need to invest money on a Leica rangefinder.
Moveable to accommodate both a-mount & e-mount?
Correct.
Z shifting sensor is not being designed for the purpose of auto focusing manual legacy lenses. It is to accommodate lenses with longer flange distance.
“Shifty sensor” would mean body has to be much thicker to be of any use.
Search for Z-Axis sensor
that would be very cool but probably not that fast and would probably make the camera quite a bit thicker since the sensor would have to have room to move back and forth.
36mp please if you want the fastest af you should go with a dslr anyway at the moment. many will use old mf lenses (leica m!) anyway so af is not important for them but colour and iso definitely.
and I also thougth that ibis is not possible with nex and ff?
anyway image stabilization is so overrated it really doesn’t help that much (I have a om-d) and one of my best images was a pano at night handeld with ibis off (I had a few beers so I was happy I could even set the shutterspeed (1/50), iso (800) and aperture (I think 2 or maybe 2.2 or 1.8 something in that range) to a suitable value and didn’t check if the ibis was on) anyway I didn’t have a extremely steady hand at that time (the beers) and the images (pano) still turned out fine. if ibis would have been on and I would have chosen a slower shutterspeed the people in the image that were moving would have been blurred even more.
so what I’m trying to say is that I found that stabilization is really not important (at least for me (I mean I was drunk and could barely set the image parameters for the pano, and the images still weren’t blurred) with shorter lenses (it was the pana 20/1.7) and why buy a ff nex if you want to put long lenses on it? just get a A99.
Simon, can you link that photo you took please? I’d like to see it. As an OMD-Em5 user I find IBIS a great add on for low light/infrared photo.
For those who don’t like 5axis IBIS: it’s like ABS on cars, you may need it or not, maybe most of times you don’t, but it’s good to have it.
don’t know if that works, I only have it on fb and it’s no 100% of course:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/883129_10151498070048620_1810945904_o.jpg
also the snowflakes wouldn’t be visible anymore at a longer shutter speed.
I’m not saying stabilization is bad, but for me in the future I won’t pay much more for it (and I won’t be fooled again that this is almost as good as a larger sensor, or faster lenses), since I found that it helps much less than I first thought (it is great for test, you can handhold really long exposures and it is perfect if nothing moves in the frame, but in such a situation I would simply use a tripod) if you use long lenses or you simply like to handhold landscapes in low light then stabilization is much more important of course.
Thank you so much. Yes, as I wrote IBIS is not necessary, but comes in help for dim light landscapes and portraits. Those who complain that moving people/objects are blurred don’t understand what IBIS does.
for me even for portraits stabilization isn’t that helpful, except you tell the person not to move but that isn’t optimal, or you could again use a tripod.
@Simon Well, usually I tell people not to move, it takes few seconds when manual focusing.. Tripod? You use it, and it’s ok for you, but I don’t carry tripods around: I find it a pain, walking trough Venetian streets, dodging tourists, or in my mountains. I don’t have a studio, where I would leave a tripod, but I rarely use a Gorillapod (medium size) when I’m in Infrared mood on mountains.
I choose to carry a couple more primes in my bag instead of a tripod.
Of course this is not a rule, it’s based on my experience and my needs.
Back to the IBIS: I believe Sony can manage to put in a body 20% bigger than a NEX7, and I hope they’ll do.
That’s amazing. We should learn a lesson based on your experience whilst being drunk doing photography.
I don’t know what to say.
Ibis is a wonderful thing.
Give me 1/8000 and I’m sold!
That would be nice but the larger the sensor the harder it is to achieve high shutter and flash sync speeds. The shutter has to travel a longer distance. That might have been one thing they had to sacrifice to keep the camera small. Expecting a much smaller NEX-7 style camera to match or exceed every feature of a pro SLR is not realistic.
get a ND filter, it’s $10
“ibis /5 axis/ up to 4,5 stops gain”
The first sentence from the “new” source tells us he is lying. Look at the size of full-frame sensor. It’s much much bigger than APSC. There is no way in hell you can stabilize such a big sensor in Nex like body. This isn’t a small M4/3 sensor.
Bogus.
.. an expert in the field said. Ha. Believe what you want but do not say it is impossible unless you are able to prove it.
Before the A900, people said it’d be impossible to have a stabilized FF camera at all. Despite its size.
yep I remember that 🙂
This comment is what we used to refer to as “NIH” (Not Invented Here). I worked in research and development at IBM for many years, helping bring invention to fruition. Frequently when a creative inventor explained how the previously un-doable can be accomplished, an “expert” in the field would proclaim “That won’t work.”
That’s what experts are for. Engineering experts in particular are there to tell you what won’t work or can’t be done.
I am pretty sure that 1 GB buffer is fake too. It’s CDAF camera (not a sport camera like Nikon D4). There is absolutely no reason why Sony would put 1 GB buffer on it.
Fake.
Why not 1GB? It is about 12-15 RAW+JPG images. RAM is cheap.
RAM is cheap and this rumor puts a lot of emphasis on frames per second. Nikon put 1 GB buffers on their mirrorless cameras, it is not limited to pro SLRs. A $3000 camera should have this as a minimum.
Yeah, I’m actually surprised its not more at those resolution and specs. Phones and tablets only have a gig or two because of power reasons but a camera buffer will only drain power while you are actually taking a picture which is really not much of the time a camera is powered on. Most of the time is spent composing an image or chimping which presumably would use the built-in RAM of a the ASIC/CPU.
I think you are right to call it a fake because of that figure.
The figure is not in itself strange, but if you grab the camera or a spec sheet, you would see some thing like “Buffer for 14 RAW’s” or something alike.
No one talks about buffer sizes in terms of GB.
OTOH, if he/she was into designing the camera then I’m not sure he would know anything about new flash och new adapter.
And, what is ‘smaller’ adapter??? Shorter??? thinnner than the mount radius???
Not supporting FF???
Full-frame sensor being stabilized in Nex like body right away tells us that this is fake.
The only thing that I could think of that is missing is a touch screen!
1/4000,, design problems?
Some of this may be true but no one with any knowledge is going to confirm it as they think they are the only ones testing or as a website/magazine want a good relationship with Sony.
I would prefer a fixed rear screen if that would keep the body smaller.
Fixed LCD is bad for street photo and for video.
I *love* the NEX tilt screen. Seriously changed how I photograph and not just for street photography. I use it as a waist level finder and work the camera like a miniature 501-series Hasselblad. I find it really helps to stabilize the camera. A fixed screen wouldn’t save much space and might actually contribute to overheating. On the 5N lifting the screen makes a noticeable difference in video shooting times because it allows better air circulation on the processor and sensor.
That said I was very skeptical of the feature at first. Also I’m concerned that this 3-axis tilt screen will either work like Canon’s (not good as a waist level finder) or add bulk or complexity to an otherwise elegant design. The current screen is about as delicate as I want a moveable part to be and still have a camera feel robust.
I hope for the A77/99 screen. I shoot often in portrait and the tilting LCD doesn’t help there.
I’ve never used the A77 or A99 screen–well not extensively. Is it robust and also compact enough?
It seems really robust. Haven’t used one for a really extensive period to be able to judge properly though. As to being compact, it will be less compact than a tilting one, but not really bigger to make any significant difference. You should check it out, it certainly is my favorite implementation.
I’m also pretty skeptical. Most of this is a re-hash of old rumors. Is that just because those rumors are true? Maybe. However I’m skeptical of IBIS, like a lot of people, but even more of a camera that has IBIS *and* a 3-axis articulating screen *and* it’s only 15% bigger–unless all that is in the thickness of camera and even then I’m skeptical.
Also am I the only one who finds all those frame rates odd? There must be something to them like reduced resolution otherwise that seems like needless options to wade through.
IF these are the specs–or the specs of an initial prototype–since whatever will be announced next month was finalized a long time ago. I’m hoping for the 32mpx (corner performance being equal). It has 25% higher resolution which would make up for a bit (maybe even a stop) less ISO while the 36mp has only a 12% difference above that. Plus the 32mp version should crop to right around 12mp in APS-C mode which is a resolution I like (and also a good resolution for 4k in 16:9 which I suspect is the “better” video spec).
Up to 14 MB/sec with a 30+ MP sensor? I doubt you’ll manage this throughput with one processor. More processors would involve a different form factor. So, too nice to be true. I sincerely hope Sony doesn’t repeat the NEX-7 failure by putting too many pixels on the sensor. I’d prefer a 18 – 24 MP sensor without corner problems over 30+ MP any time.
Let’s see, waiting for another 2-4 weeks until the rumors get SR5 is tough but it seems we have no choice. Good to know the thing is coming. I hope they get it right (as they did with the RX1)
I don’t think it’s that hard to believe–although it is likely that 14fps is JPG only as others have speculated. Remember most of the camera ASICS (the CPUs running all the electronics) use a specialized version of the ubiquitous ARM processors–the same ones that power all the fancy smart phones. If you look at the newer version of CPUs there they can process an obscene amount of data for short bursts and for those short bursts power consumption is less of an issue.
At $2-3k there’s more room to put in an expensive dual or quad-core chip. Plus the NEX cameras can already to 10fps at 24mp and once the data is read off the sensor data is data no matter if it comes from an APS-C sized sensor or a full-frame. It is very conceivable that a new, bigger, more expensive camera released two years after the NEX-7 is running a processor (Moore’s law) with twice the raw computational power. Some of that will be devoted to keeping the frame rate while increasing the megapixels, the rest will be to tracking the subject using the new AF system.
Is that how it works? I don’t know but it very well could. Now IBIS and some of the other specs are harder to believe because there are physical and material constraints.
but if native Emount and std. FF size body there would be piles of room in there for more parts and heatsinks
32mp is 33% higher resolution versus 24mp while 24mp is 25% less resolution versus 32mp;)
32 mp os only 11.6% more resolution (pixels/mm ) than 24mp.
32 mp ff is actually lower resolution than 24mp c..
I will not be buying this camera.
Ah yes, you are right. My math was based on straight numbers and not based on the actual area of the sensors. I’m not buying it because I can’t afford it and my NEX 6 does enough for what I purposes. Still will be interesting to see what’s coming in October though.
There are a lot of very exciting NEX rumours surfacing recently & its all good to hear. What drives me crazy though is that none of them fit my hopes. All I want is a new NEX 7 (or whatever number) in the affordable APS-C range that gives us a clear top end model. Because right now the current 7 is the most outdated model, but still the only one with 24mp.
IMHO – 24MP is so enough for everybody… Why compromise speed, ISO, color for more pixels? As an owner of A850, I say: SONY, it’s about time to produce one outstanding 24MPx FF sensor!
About 2000$ should be for 24mpix . Canon and Nikon have offer for full frame 1,500 $ . So I do not see the point overpaid .
All the speculation says ~$3000 FF. If indeed it can be $2K or UNDER, then I might be tempted. Over 2K is simply not my zone for NEX, I want under 1K & if i get crazy I might spend $1200. Its simply asking too much to consider more for NEX if you are not a PRO.
Your statement implies that the only important factor is the pixel count. $100 per mpix is about right for you ? I couldn’t less agree. I’d pay $3000 for a 24 mpix and still, there are some 32 mpix that are not worth $2000 for me.
Go Sony. By by competition………..Sony writing history again.
Everyone is writing his history. 😉
YOU DO NOT SPEAK FOR EVERYBODY!!!!!!!!!!
Yhos is absolutely not enough redolution for me or anyone that actually works big.
It may however be enough for people that just sit in front of thier tv snd whatch thier pictures.
I am also a D800e user and the higher mp count is a blessing you in effect get the best of both worlds better detail and performance at low ISO at high ISO you have far more flexibility with processing regarding NR etc the more information you start with the better the post processing results. Using my mates D4 and my D800e in similar shooting situations the end results at high ISO are not that different.The only downside [ if you can call it that nowadays with cheap storage} are the larger files.
‘ the higher mp count is a blessing you in effect get the best of both worlds better detail and performance at low ISO at high ISO’
actually its the other way round. adding mega pixel without increasing the size of the sensor results in smaller sensor pixel (the ones that catch the light while taking a picture). as a result the dynamic range decreases and the signal/noise ratio gets worse. more megapixel doe not equal more ‘real’ resolution. you only increase the size of the image. if you want better image quality (more detail, less noise, more dynamic range) go for the best lenses and a bigger format/sensor.
You mean like this?
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/(appareil1)/832%7C0/(brand)/Sony/(appareil2)/736%7C0/(brand2)/Sony/(appareil3)/737%7C0/(brand3)/Sony
You fail to grasp that for some people resolution is everything.
Some of us dont need the best colors or highest iso we need to actually be able to discern the most details.
Please help me understand… 24 mpix is 6000 pix by 4000 pix. If I take just the width, 6000 pix printed at 266 dpi makes a printout of 22 inches (56 cm). Are you really printing larger than that? If so, I understand your need for more.
Inxustry standard is 300ppithe minimum not 266.
24mp is only suitable for up to 16×20″
I print often at 72″or larger.
72 inches at 300 dpi, you need 21,600 x 14,400 pix sensor (311 mpix). Shouldn’t you consider medium format for that? I’m not being sarcastic… I like to understand.
AT
That 300PPI “standard” is used for magazines and is considered high enough quality for close viewing. You don’t really need it for half a meter print to look good. And, depending on the image, you will not be able to see much difference between a 266PPI and 300PPI.
“24mp is only suitable for up to 16×20″”
Given that you did not qualify that statement, it is nonsense. It is only true for specific situations.
I usually print 16 x 12, but it happened that a pic has been print 39 inches to be displayed after winning a contest. It was a b&w portrait taken with a 16MP camera. Perhaps megapixels are not the only important thing? Just asking.
AFAIC, 24MP would be more than enough for me (photography is a passion and too rarely a job, for me).
You clearly don’t print all that often if you dont realise that nobody in their right mind would print something that large at 300DPI
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about if you nake thst statement.
Art reproductions (almost which i do indeed print all the time) are made at 300dpi.
More importantly as far as the camera res is concerned is that i need to see both my subject in its enterety and detais such as individual scale or feather structure when i use the pitures for referrence.
Those of you rhat say get a medium format clearly have no idea of the difficulty in using it for animals.
That was a response to ZeevK
@animalsbybarry
For the last 10-12 years I worked at R&D for several companies that build the best wide format (up to 1.8 meters wide) and ultra-wide format (up to 5 meters wide) printers & presses, both using Ink-Jet and Laser technology. I do know a little bit what I am talking about. In most cases, the larger prints are viewed from a larger distance so only in very bizarre situations these images are displayed for “pixel-peeping”. A 70x50cm poster hanging on the wall looks the same (resolution & sharpness) if printed from 24MPx DSLR or 70Mpx digital back on Hasselblad.
On top of that, most current lenses are not able to deliver true 32~36~40MPx resolution (definetly not all over the entire frame) – so the high resolution is quite gimmick…
Noise-free 24Mpx image, with rich colors and high acutance is more usable for any application, than more noisy and slower 32MPx or 36MPx sensor.
BUT I know SONY and know whom do they talk and listen… this camera will have the slowes & noisiest FF sensor, inferior in every aspect to anything competition has in FF – except the Holly Grail of Pixel Count.
+1 I to work in the sensor industry. At last someone talking sense.
Oh! I see. I’ve been running on 24 mpix for the last 18 months (NEX-7), and I am definitely switching to the NEX FF (my NEX 7 is on eBay). I consider myself as a typical enthousiast (not pro) and I also think that I am about in the center of the target audience for the high end NEX system. Given that I wish to shoot, carry and edit about 1000 photos each time I travel, I’d be happy with 24 mpix for a few more years, or until proven otherwise. In terms of printing, I mostly print photo books from Aperture (Apple). Mostly 11 inch, sometimes a spread at 22 inch. Am I making sense?
And for some reasons people still don’t grasp the concept that there is little to no correlation between pixel density and noise for a given output in practise.
Also, there is no such thing as “true 36 MP” output. Fact is that most lenses can still resolve much more than what current sensors deliver. You’ll have to talk multitudes of current sensor resolutions before that’s even an “issue”, especially with Bayer sensors.
Post scriptum:
Even if you would downsample for example 72 MP FF files to 24 MP files, the output (not limited by circumstances in general) would still beat that of any native 24 MP FF sensor, for the simple fact that you end up with more (Foveon like) and more accurate colour resolution (unlike Foveon) and less artifacts (moiré etc.).
+1 here
Firstly the lens resolution limit nonsense has been debunked here at least 1000x so i will skip debunking it again.
As for the need for more resolution in addition to prints photos serve other functions.
I utilize pictures for reference for paintings.
In a bird for example i need to see both the entire bird and the structure of the featers. I cannot accurately paint a feather unless i can see the prts that make up the feather. Similar structural details are necessary for other subjects.
I stitch multiple images together to get what i need and this generally requires a picture of over 100mp.
Try creating high res images of living moving animals with a 24mp camera on a regular basis and you too will become obsesed with higher resolution.
I’d like to clarify a few things, as I am not entirely following.
Why would high resolution be a gimmick? Every lens would only benefit from a higher resolution, it won’t somehow become worse. Acutance doesn’t strike me as a property of low MP sensors. A higher 36MP sensor will resolve more detail than a 24MP one. Admittedly, it is all diminishing returns, but the result will never be worse.
Why would a 36MP sensor would be “noisier” or “slower” than a 24MP one?
If you know sensors perhaps you can explain why sony
Should not be able to make a ff sensor of exactly the same wuality and resolution as thier current best c sensor (2.25 as many megapixels)
If this were an available choice it would satisfy high resolution fanatics like myself.
Yes Barry, we have heard it all before. Bigger is better! Did you say you worked in the porno industry?
I must admit prior to getting my D800 , I had heard all the arguments against higher MP cameras .To be blunt they are all nonsense every single lens you put on the camera will do better even cheap low end options. You end up with excellent high res detailed low ISO prints and due to the extra detail you have a great deal of flexibility regarding post processing high ISO files. I did a little experiment with my friend who shoots with a D4 compared to my D800 at high ISO. At the same output and detail size they are just about equal. Obviously the D4 has other advantages for pro shooting fps , battery life etc
Try it for yourself download any of the RAW files available from the various test sites , when post processing for the same output size the detail advantage of the D800 allows one to add some NR while still at worst maintaining the same level of detail. I really hope that Sony opt for at least 36mp , as my main objective for a FF Nex would be as a landscape tool that I can easily carry with a selection of my favourite primes
Here are the results from one of the cheapest Nikon lenses the £140 50mm F1.8G on a 12mp D700 and the 36mp D800.
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Lenses/Compare-Camera-Lenses/Compare-lenses/%28lens1%29/435/%28brand%29/Nikkor/%28camera1%29/441/%28lens2%29/435/%28brand2%29/Nikkor/%28camera2%29/792
Wheelus.
Clearly you are annoyed that i state my opinion multiple times.
Your response is to tell me multiple times not to state my opinion.
Thats not going to happen but i hear your concern and have a solution for you.
If you dont like to read my posts DONT.
If better vídeo means XAVC 4:2:2 10 bits, that would be fantastic
+1+1+1+1+1+1+1
+1 +1 +1 +1 +1 ………. ! 🙂
I want that too but its not going to happen 🙁 Look at the price difference between the AX1 and P series camcorders. The only major difference being 4:2:2 vs 4:2:0. No way Sony would undercut camcorder sales by offering a camera for half the price ($3k vs $6k) that shot at the same color depth.
Now I do think, for those who want it, 4K 4:2:0 will be an option. It would be awesome if 4:2:2 were available in HD.
Yes !!!! +1
4:2:2 – 10 bits – 1080P – 24P – 48P
No more, not less!!!
And the same thing for the NEX-VG series !
Please Mrs and Mr Sony !
I´m not so sure, the PXW-Z100 is 6K with it´s fixed lenses. The Nex FF should be 2.5-3K body only. With cine lenses, an external recorder and a basic rig, it could be as high as 6-10K. Who knows, but with BMPCC offering prores 4:2:2 10 bits and DNG RAW (14 bits, 5:1 compressed) for 1K, I think we may have a chance of Sony to realize it could get a much bigger piece of the pie with better video, getting ahead of Canon/Nikon, which offer poor codec (H264 with very low bitrates) or hacked solutions (ML for Canon.
+1
I don’t disagree with your logic. I would love for that to be true but I really don’t think it is going to happen.
1. Sony still strongly protects its other markets despite convergence and not only is there the PMW but the F5 which is codec limited itself. A mirrorless that costs 20% as the F5 with similar codecs and imaging (probably more moire but FF vs S35) would risk some serious cannibalization.
2. If Sony were going to try to one-up the competition they’d have done it with the AX1 and PMW. They didn’t. Those are both great cameras but still very evolutionary despite the jump to 4k (IMHO).
3. Sony won’t go for ProRes regardless what bit depth they go far because they are all guns behind the XAVC standard (AKA their variation on high-level MP4) which *is* good and I believe will be on the new camera in some form–prob at higher bitrates and possible with an intra-frame mode.
Sony also is hoping to create something with a broader appeal (I believe) than the BMCC cameras. Raw video has a lot of buzz right now and the image quality if amazing but it is very difficult to deal with. Therefore I don’t think Sony sees it as a real threat at this level. Yet.
Sony has to integrate the XAVC codec in NEX and Alpha systems.
1080P only but 4:2:2 – 10bits with 50 mbs minimum (XQD Cards for debit ?).
Now is the time !!! Panasonic, Canon, Balckmagic are again going to evolve…
4K & RAW has to stay for the systems FS, F and PVW
And I do not agree, camera F5,55 and PVW are not rival to the system NEX and Alpha.
F5 and 55 are cameras cinema (sensor, codec, PL etc.)
PVW is camera of report (motorized zoom, XLR etc.)
Sony has already stated that it plans to move the XAVC codec into consumer products but under the name “XAVC-S” which is what the AX1 shoots. The AX1 is a high-end consumer product in Sony’s standards. Despite any “Pro” labels the FF NEX will fall into that same category–at least it isn’t as pro as the F line of cameras.
Which is why I agree raw video will stay in the F line of cameras. I do think that 4k is very possible/probable for the FF NEX because:
1. it will help differentiate Sony
2. it means more to consumers than 10-bit full-HD (while I agree with you I’d rather have 4:2:2 @ 1080P)
3. Sony is pushing 4K *hard*. Plus a $3k mirrorless vs a $4k small sensor all-in-camcorder is not likely to cannibalize much.
In the end though as much as I *want* to agree with you I don’t. Yes, the F series are cinema cameras but the 5D proved that “cinema” isn’t safe from convergent still/video cameras. 4:2:2 (& raw) is a Pro feature so Sony wants it to stay with the Pro’s. Ironically I think 4K is more of a consumer feature at this point.
I predict the FF NEX will have the AX1’s video specs but with a full frame sensor–which would still be an awesome camera but concedes the “serious” indie filmmaking to Canon (ML) & BMCC. It would be great to be wrong!!
+1
The digital Bolex samples are looking good for a $3K camera so maybe these cheaper camera’s that are coming out will force sony to get into the low end of the market.
+1 !
Or there’s the BMCC Pocket Camera for $1k! But in the end those are video only (albeit high quality video for the price) and my interest in the FF NEX would be for shooting stills and also some video. If you just, or mostly, shoot video there are probably better options out there now.
We (NEX users) got rid of this archaic, mechanical, fragile and large component called “mirror”. I am happy to have a camera that has close to 0% mechanical parts. I fear IBIS for that reason… I’m a bit rough with my equipment. For instance, my camera is always in my bag and I’m always riding a motorcycle. Should I fear IBIS or not? Wouldn’t you consider it as the most fragile part of your camera?
Careful there Alain, I think there are many mechanical cameras/lens from 50 year old+ still working fine, but how many people can say the same for electronic for even 5 years?
True.
Very, very true. My srT-101 & 303 still working perfectly, and the only problem is that it is difficult to find original or 100% compatible batteries.
For last 40 years that I use cameras, I can say the more electronics got into them – the less reliable they become. Some models (like Canon T90 was wiped out from the market because of unreliable electronic board).
Only once I had a true mechanical failure – the famous DYNAX 7D First Black Frame, rest of failures as I can recall are all related to electronic parts: Main Board of 700si, capacitors in X-700, switches in XG-7, and just lately NEX-5N failed during Venice Masks Carnival (main board replaced) and NEX external flash died during a trip to Las Vegas.
Electronics, especially the “made in China” type (which is almost 100% today) is truly awful these days…
@Alain I have my OMD-Em5 always with me, in a bag with primes or in my hand, even when I jump around during my walks in my mountains, and it works perfectly.
It happened that a sudden blow of wind hit me while I was changing lens, and small pieces of dust and wood (I was sitting on the top of a mountain) entered the camera and hit the sensor.
I managed to remove the biggest pieces, but the day afterI went to my fav shop and asked for a professional cleaning.
The owner said clearly that he didn’t know how much strenght he should have put while cleaning the sensor: in facts the whole sensor moves like it’s floating.
To make the story short: the sensor was cleaned as every other sensor, it gave no problems at all and it’s still working as on day one.
Don’t fear IBIS 😉
Thx Mr Sartori, this brings down my anxiety to a manageable level 😉
I shoot mostly manual glass and would prefer a mechanically simpler and smaller camera.
“20-40% chance it may be correct”???
hahahaha hahahaha hahaha
This site is hilarious..
I kindly asked SAR reader if they want me to post that SR2 rumor. They said yes, they want it. And now you blame me? Get a life Eric 🙂
Thanks Andrea, as much as I too have my doubts about this rumors I appreciate you sharing it. Keep up the good work. Haters gunna hate.
It’s a rumor site, not a Sony pre-announcement site. Absolutely correct to share a SR2 rumor.
+ 1000 for admin.
Why future tense? It already IS a fantastic.
SONY, as a camcorder manufacturer. These high video specs are not yet even at her 60K prof.camcorder, neither at her 6k “look like pro” camcorder.
To cannibalize the sales of own cameras? no way
Looking at how vague the information has been so far, I’m betting that we’re not going to hear about a solid product in 2 days time. If a final ready-to-fly version is out there with a real name, rumor sites will not just know what the specs are but also have photos posted all over.
I’m guessing Sony will just announce the development of it and show a prototype. There is no doubt that such a camera is in the works. The release of the FE lenses might happen because they still can be used on current bodies and on the VG900.
Let’s hope I’m wrong…
No I think Sony is trying REALLY hard to keep this one under wraps. All the announcements and such point to it really happening.
While 24-36mp cameras are what the majority of people want it is not enough for the 10% that need higher rsolution.
If it is sonys intention to entice canon and nikon users to buy one yhe will need a compeling reason such as the highest possible resolution.
This camera will be purchased by people who will buy whatever sony makes.
For the more demanding customers sony needs more.
– ibis /5 axis/ up to 4,5 stops gain
Don’t believe this.
– 3,5,8,12 fps modes, also something they called ‘mega fast mode’ 14 pcs
Nice if true.
– 1/4000sec
Ok, but sometimes usefull with 1/8000
– new chip.
Of course. Number og MP’s same for me as long as excellent performance.
– buffer – at least 1gb
Ok, 2 GB is even better.
– 3” screen, articulated in 3 axis
Excellent.
– 2 colours /black and some gray version/
Gray? Would be better with retro design e.g. black and metal
– new small adapter for a lenses
Well… the difference in flange distance (A vs. E-mount) will always be there so it can’t be very small.
– New Oled EVF
Of course.
There is nothing extreme about these specs, so all could be true or not.
Anyone could guess on something like this.
Love SR2’s, makes the roulette even more exciting 🙂
Now that the Canon 70D is out. Low light AF will be measured and compared. I would like to see something BELOW 0EV AF. More PRO DSLR like. AF is where SONY has to lead on PDAF/CDAF on Sensor. This is SONY’s chance to LEAD.
* THE NEW FLASH (with TTL RADIO trigger), NO Flash DELAY, and NO Over Head is SOOOO NEEDED. Also with SONY RADIO Receivers for Strobes and Manual Flashes to you can MIX your legacy stuff in easily. SONY would sell a lot of Flash and Flash ACC. make it CLS like
1/8000 for a $3,000 Full Frame … but if 1/4000 is Flash Sync and Silent … that could turn to an advantage.
If Olympus IBIS that could be a “User Noticeable” improvement over what is currently available on the a99. That falls in a Love it category for me.
IF, 32mp makes it FASTER , and IBIS .. with Olympus Superior sensor CLEAN thrown in on Full Frame … I am totally “IN” for that !!! and I am a D800 shooter. 🙂
WIFI/NFC s/b standard by now on ALL SONY.
Weather Sealed ? with wheels that have the solid feel of the RX1 ? and this is starting to sound like the small PRO camera people have been asking for. NOW you just need the f1.4 ZEISS prime lens. and the basic PRO 24-70 and 70-200 BUT do a Sigma “like” surprise and make it f2 !
32 or 36 mp is only useful if they have the optics to render 32 or 36 mp, otherwise it is just pointless specs – like using a regular lens, such as the 24-70mm on a D800. If they will have the optics to render that many megapixels, then that would be great, but I highly doubt it.
In my opinion, retaining the same NEX series design is a mistake, as it is an uninspiring, ugly design, and the system will be even more imbalanced than the current NEX-series cameras – lenses are far too big for the bodies.
That said, it is great to hear that Sony is pushing ahead with a full frame option, as it will inspire others to do the same, such as Fuji. Sony produces very good sensors, but the camera designs, other than the RX1, are uninspiring to say the least. They should produce a new design for their full frame options, rather than retaining the NEX design.
Funny I like the NEX look and form factor. Yes, it isn’t quiet the objet d’art (or perhaps objet d’nostalgia) that some other cameras are I find most of them very functional and forward thinking. While I do appreciate the minimalism of a simple three dial (shutter speed, aperture, ISO/EV compensation) setup, digital cameras are capable of so much more when considering color adjustments, focusing types, video, etc. The flexibility of the tri-navi system embodies that adaptability and I hope they keep it for the FF NEX.
Trade offs I suppose.
I personally prefer the shape and form factor of NEX, I just want more control dials. And I’ve tested RX1 in store – didn’t like the build quality at all, I hate that small screw-like round shutter-button with a hole in it!, strange menus on both sides etc. It’s just unbearable and not pleasant to hold in hands, feels cheap and ugly. RX100 has a much better build and feel to it. Also, very high price, no zoom, no ILC. If it were ILC I might consider it.
Everyone has there preference. But, one thing is for sure, the NEX series cameras are very imbalanced – the lenses are far too big for the bodies. They better do a better job with their lenses going forward, in my opinion. Otherwise, the system will be a failure.
I don’t see the 35mm, 50mm, 16-50mm, 16mm, 20mm, 24mm, 18-55mm or even the 16-70mm lenses to be particularly big on most of the current NEX bodies. Less imbalanced than say a 24-70 on a D600.
That’s what your left hand is for; to hold big lenses with.
And yet for everyone who complains about size there’s someone else who complains they aren’t fast enough! (which would mean larger) Make the body bigger and there’s a chorus of people complaining that now it is too close to an SLR.
Maybe m4/3 (smaller sensor so generally smaller lenses) or Fuji (bigger bodies) would be a better choice for you? A full-frame sensor doesn’t have to mean lenses much bigger than APS-C but the ain’t going to be smaller! (at the same focal length and speed–not talking about “equivalent” focal lengths which can sometimes work in FF’s advantage (ZE 24mm vs. FE 35mm).
Hopefully they are wrong on the 1/4000s shutter… that would be sad.
And I hope the new EVF will be big!
This with 1/8000 and its perfect. Sony, if you’re listening, PLEASE put in 1/8000