Working on rumors never has been easy. But now it’s getting even more difficult to predict Sony’s roadmap. As I have learned from my sources Sony is on the verge of major changes in their camera business strategy. The financial crisis forces them to re-think the products roadmap (and as I will tell you later this is actually a good news). Usually companies do plan 2-3 years in advance. But from what I am hearing Sony is about to decide to speed up the transition to a “full mirrorless roadmap“. In concrete this means that some of the cameras and lenses that have been planed for a 2013 release may will NOT introduced. And some that have been planed for a 2014 release may come earlier.
Confused? Don’t worry. This is just to say that it will be difficult for us to be reliable on rumors about cameras coming in 6-12 months because the management is currently discussing the release (or not release) of some of these products.
I am now working (and waiting) to get some reliable details about the changing roadmap. But one thing I can tell. This is a good news! Sony definitely wants to challenge Nikon and Canon…that’s their plan! But to do so they have to clearly focus on producing unique products that are unmatched or not even available in the Canon and Nikon palette. And do not make any mistake, both E and A mount lines will be developed and reinforced. But if the roadmap change will come the reinforcement will be more “revolutionary” than “evolutionary”.
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P.S.: Sorry for my English. It’s difficult to express sensible information in a non native language. Would love to explain such difficult stuff in German 🙂
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127 Responses
3 suggestions to Sony.
1. Competitive pricing.
2. Competitive pricing.
3. Vastly reduced focus on the Cybershot lines.
Sony has always been competitive on pricing for quite a lot of products. And the Cybershot line now includes the RX100 and RX1.
Yes, the Cybershot line has diversified to half baked cams.
I would say they are rather great.
+1
2 half baked products that nobody else offers.
🙂
True. No one else offers and not many need. Wait for better versions with a built in EVF and separate hotshoe in a Rx300 and a Rx3. This is exactly what happened with the NEX line.
It took 3 iterations to the NEX-6 from the 5 that was sold even without a body cap since they did not make one when they made that camera.
I would vote for affordable and available lenses.
What nonsense – you could have picked up a camera with the same sensor as a D3x for less than a third of the price in the form of an A900 or 850. Also, you can’t compare an A99 and D600 on the basis of price alone, as the D600 doesn’t do a good job with autofocus in video mode – which peoole don’t realize they’ll really like/need (amateurs don’t use follow focus and have crew along to focus their videos, so comparisons to “pros” is ridiculous). Your assertion that Sony cams are too expensive is also ridiculous.
Too many “ridiculous” in a post. Amazing that you could make such a big story! LOL!
What exactly “assertion” means and what did I “assert”? 🙂
On-chip focussing would eliminate the need for a mirror – and if sony can also make kick-ass sensors for themselves ONLY – and then sell them bodies capable of adding spacers to accept ALL lenses like NEX, they’d present a good case for changing, since investing in another company’s lenses would no longer be a meaningful impediment to switching.
NEX is very competitive price wise with the XPro1/XE1, or the OMD-EM5, or leica x2.
confusing and sad at the same time, i knew that their financial crisis would also effect the camera segment
lets hope if they release earlier it will be something finished and not half baked
‘Transition to a “full mirrorless roadmap“’ Does that mean A-mount will further become the ugly sibling of the family?
More like: Less popular one. So no change really here. NEXes will keep being strong player in mirrorless market, while A-mount will focus on Full Frame and pro uses reinforced by Hasselblad DSLRs.
At least – that’s how I see it.
Hasselblad DSLR? You mean like an H4D? ‘Cause they aren’t going to sell many blinged-up Sony rebadges.
It may well be that Nex cameras are outselling Alpha cameras, but I’ve seen nothing to suggest the difference is two or three times. Both product lines continue to sell, it’s only point and shoots which are going to struggle in the medium term.
No, more like: A900 mk II for 5 times as much 😉 Hassel already announced that they plan to release a DSLR in cooperation with Sony and that’s means: A-mount and FF sensor.
“but I’ve seen nothing to suggest the difference is two or three times” – did I mention two or three times difference anywhere?
“it’s only point and shoots which are going to struggle in the medium term.”
– yea, true, but I’m quite sure that cybershots outsell NEXes and Alphas quite easily… problem is that they drop quickly and unless they start making large-sensor compacts for decent prices (like RX100, or cheaper) : They won’t stand a chance to survive in a long term.
‘“but I’ve seen nothing to suggest the difference is two or three times” – did I mention two or three times difference anywhere?’
No, but neither did I say you did. I was merely trying to put some perspective on the A mount being less popular, if it indeed is.
As long as they don’t delay A-mount lenses, then for me it’s ok.
yep, same here!
Well I hope too it will not affect release of rumored A-mount lenses (Zeiss 50/1.4 and 70-200GII). That would be disappointment. I would spend my >$3000 for third party lenses then.
If the 70-200GII is just the current optical design with whether sealing and a new motor as it appears to be, would you really buy a third party lens instead if they take too long to release it? Sounds like cutting off the nose to spite the face.
I expect new 70-200G to be better optically too. I expect it to be sharper at long end. New Sigma proves it can be done. New Tammy has been announced recently.
The newest Sony E-mount camera is already the focusing manner having both CD-AF and PD-AF on the image sensor.
Well, people put question, why Sony do not append CD-AF on their A-mount camera? (A-mount = SLT camera, E-mount = mirrorless camera )
We want Sony put a turn switch on the A-mount camera. The mode-A: PD-AF with the SLT manner working. But the mode-B: can switch the translucent mirror to be locked up, and on-image-sensor method to perform the CD-AF and PD-AF, ( to make the SLT camera can also be switched to a large mirrorless camera manner working).
Some camera lovers did not want translucent mirror manner, and others who did not want an E-mount camera. Well, the switchable AF multi-modes can make A-mount camera to be better, can be liked with more people.
My A580 already offers both CDAF and PDAF in Live View mode (the mirror flips down briefly for the PDAF option), but CDAF is much slower than PDAF, even with the associated mirror ‘bounce’. There’s no need to do a ‘mirror’ lock-up with an SLT camera to achieve CDAF since that would be using the image sensor anyway.
But there is one for pixel-peeping.
A580 was no PD-AF on the image sensor.
On the Image Sensor with built-in PD-AF and CD-AF.
Just is the newest NEX-6,
Sounds like same as the PD-AF, but the built-in PD-AF on the image sensor is another one new method, makes you can take locked up of mirror but runs the PD-AF.
On-image-sensor built-in PD-AF the speed is still a bit slower compared to a traditional AF sensor manner. So, the translucent mirror can be switched and lockup to be still needed in recently.
That is saying an A-mount camera to have dual PD-AF detection. (The a99 has dual PD-AF detection system). Actually says like the a99 ought to append CD-AF manner and mirror can be switchable to lock up.
On-image-sensor built-in PD-AF that is yet not in the dark lighting good working, like Nikon mirrorless camera is automatic to switch between PD-AF and CD-AF.
For the long-term future, in A-mount camera the translucent mirror will be disappeared away, once the on-image-sensor built-in PD-AF matured up.
In next year, maybe Nikon will launch a hybrid AF DSLR camera to be on-image-sensor built-in PD-AF and CD-AF on Live-View. And, the electronic 1st shutter curtain method also likely used in Nikon at 2013.
In 2012 is a main chance, but Sony not clutched at.
“On-image-sensor built-in PD-AF the speed is still a bit slower compared to a traditional AF sensor manner.” – a bit? 😉 hehehehe
I’d say: Significantly. I’m yet to see a mirrorless that can match even entry-level DSLR performance. And I tested quite a few, including Panasonic that somehow gets a lot of praise for AF (while some of P&S got better AF).
@Sky walker
obviously, you do not know Nikon V1 PD-AF is no much slower than the d3100, but not including low lighting, in low lighting Nikon V1 is automatic to switch to CD-AF.
I hope this means the RX1 was more successful than expected and leads Sony to give us full frame E mount earlier. Also higher quality E mount lenses for any format.
To be fair, Sony has been producing some fantastic products, with the E 10-18mm F/4 being a great example. It needs to be the worst they do though. Their future lenses need to be this good or better.
AND FOR THE LOVE OF FSM GET RID OF THE SH!TTY NEX MENUING SYSTEM EVERYONE IN THE WORLD HATES IT. Cyber-shot group, RX in particular, needs to take over NEX design PRONTO. The two most amazing cameras released in a decade are both Cyber-shot, not alpha.
” The two most amazing cameras released in a decade are both Cyber-shot, not alpha.”
– What do you mean? The A77 was TIPA Best Imaging Innovation of 2011, and A55 hit the The 50 Best Inventions of the Year Award by Time magazine.
Ignorant, or just loving compacts way too much?
Gee, polite much? The RX1 got the Photokina star award 2012 and is nominated for the CEA Best of Innovations 2013. The RX100 got the EISA award 2012-2013. And you can expect more to come.
I find both of those to be way more amazing than some translucent mirror.
I suspect the Emount lenses on the road map (e.g., the G zoom lens) that were supposed to be coming are being reworked to fit a full frame NEX camera of the future. I doubt there will be delays of Amount lenses unless those resources are being diverted to help develop more Emount FF lenses.
This would be excellent if correct. SONY can emerge as the leader in mirrorless and dominate with it’s E mount if it positions itself correctly. The fullframe RX1 already drew fantastic positive exposure for SONY.
So every Sony ILC released hasn’t been as “amazing” as a bunch of cybershots? You need to get out more!
On-image-sensor built-in PD-AF the speed is still a bit slower compared to a traditional AF sensor manner. So, the translucent mirror can be switched and lockup to be still needed in recently.
That is saying an A-mount camera to have dual PD-AF detection. (The a99 has dual PD-AF detection system). Actually says like the a99 ought to append CD-AF manner and mirror can be switchable to lock up.
On-image-sensor built-in PD-AF that is yet not in the dark lighting good working, like Nikon mirrorless camera is automatic to switch between PD-AF and CD-AF.
For the long-term future, in A-mount camera the translucent mirror will be disappeared away, once the on-image-sensor built-in PD-AF matured up.
In next year, maybe Nikon will launch a hybrid AF DSLR camera to be on-image-sensor built-in PD-AF and CD-AF on Live-View. And, the electronic 1st shutter curtain method also likely used in Nikon at 2013.
In 2012 is a main chance, but Sony not clutched at.
obviously, you do not know Nikon V1 PD-AF is no much slower than the d3100, but not including low lighting, in low lighting Nikon V1 is automatic to switch to CD-AF.
Good work admin !
Some questions:
1. Will the upcoming A79 be mirrorless?
2. Will the upcoming A79 have PDAF pixels just like A99?
3. Will the upcoming APS-C Alpha cameras cancal the additional crop factor when shooting videos?
4. Will the upcoming A79 support tethered shooting for lower budget studio work(cannot justify the price of FF body and FF standrd zoom/ultrawide zoom but would be happy to spend those money on flash system!)
It will not be mirror-less, the AF performance isn’t good enough yet.
And even less people will buy it (except collectors), given the uncertain future.
Hmm Maybe they quit from A-mount and SLT ? ;/
read carefully. Admin just told that they won’t and you whine that they will? Oh, come on…
It was inevitable that Sony go all mirrorless sooner than later. Full frame A-mount mirrorless (and APS-C) in a year? Bring it on! Built in SSS as well, on a mirrorless A-mount camera? Release it as soon as the technology and cost permits. This will indeed be the cameras many of us are waiting for.
The earlier the big and ugly DSLRs disappear from our streets, the better!
That’s why I bought well-designed, and nice reflex camera.
Ugly DSLRs mostly disappeared 3-4 years ago. Most of the recent are actually quite cool. Both in terms of ergonomics and design (eg. iF Design Award for A77).
sorry, but I don’t care about the design if something is just too fat for what it is. Remove the mirrorbox and we can talk…
Oh I forgot the NEX-7 already exists 😉
I guess that depends on the size of ones hands and how long one shoots for? Mirrorless cameras so far are light, but not especially ergonomic.
so heavy and big is ergonomic?
Hans, not everybody has tiny hands and not everybody shoots in summer. So, yes, bigger and heavier is more ergonomic for some people, some situations, etc. A NEX-5N may be smaller and lighter, but strains your hand more due to its grip. It’s all trade offs.
You can keep your tiny camera for your tiny hands, I want a camera with a good balance for long glass, plenty of dedicated buttons and dials, one that can be used with gloves in the cold too.
I guess if you are a girl, small cameras are ok though.
I am not a girl and I don’t have tiny hands. I don’t even feel cold in winter. And now?
And now, it means that you don’t need or want a big DSLR. That’s it.
@Frank
You, sir, have outdated thinking, that is, of 20th century. Now input devices are larger than electronics, which suggests total redesign of camera exterior. Yet no manufacturer does that, because photographers are crying for big black cameras and are convincing casual people to buy them.
For your “long glass” (btw, do these lenses exist for NEX?), additional battery grip which provides more weight, grip and controls would be perfectly adequate.
Long glass isn’t stable when holding it in front of face in arms. It would much more reliable to hold it laying on shoulders. EVF is a big help here. Detachable one.
Boooe – you are completely clueless on what you are talking about. Talking is silver but silence is gold <- ever heard about it? Best time to make use of it.
come on, please tell, why A77 has EVF in that camel hump, how is THAT ergonomic?
Well, looking through the viewfinder I do not see my own camera (unless in a mirror) so I do not care much how it looks as long as it delivers.
Weight and size are important though when traveling.
But we’ll see what happens.
As I told you before. A mount will go mirrorless. I predict it will happen in 5 years. But not sure other areas are ready if it happen faster.
A-Mount could be made mirrorless today, but cameras won’t get much smaller due to flange distance reqirement of the a-mount. E-mount will be the mirrorless future, hopefully soon for Full-frame as well!
**NEWS FLASH** A-mount will go mirror-less in five years…
Like we didn’t already know that. 😀
very good news.
entry level compact camera market is dead… too much competition from mobile phones
The camera market will focus more and more on expert/high quality compacts camera, mirorless and DSLR.
But as the mirorless camera will become better and better, they will also capture some market shares from DSLR.
Just waiting for more E-mount lenses, especialy compact ones and very high quality ones!
I do want to have the 36MP Sensor… no matter in which camera.
well, you can have that today, can’t you?
LOL
Nothing really new here we all new that mirrorless was the future and that the SLT would be an intermediate step as technology improved.
If Sony is ready with the technology then they need to use it and bring the products to market.
Here’s a revolutionary thought, just build proper lenses for the bodies already sold.
+1 Here.
Easiest way for Sony to challenge Nikon, Stop selling them Sensors to Nikon!
Canon seems to be going downhill by itself so it doesn’t deserve any special attention 😉
Kidding 😀
Microsoft invested hundreds of millions of dollars in Apple in the 90’s. I think this is Nikon’s way of investing in Sony. And it could simply be a win-win situation. Sony gets their percentage and Nikon gets a superior sensor.
Most of what Andrea labels “unique” is not.
Unique could be, e.g., electronically moving&titling sensor (replacing bulky and inconvenient in-lens T&S adaptors)
oops, wrong place for previous comment.
@ksr
That would be worse for Sony than it is for Nikon. People would buy Nikon anyway.
Also, Sony Imaging and Sony Semiconductor are not the same thing.
What is the point in our time in SLT and SLR? Now there is mirrorles.
Photo-camera for pictures.
Design FUJI X-E1
was hoping for a A58 16mp OLED evf and mirrorless with the focus range lock of the A99 tho since thats a long shot and also the new body will have the new flash mount i think im just going to pick up a A57 to cover me for the next few years
I think when one looks at the tech that Sony innovates in Sensors and image processing we can expect that to continue as a very profitable division of Sony. They cannot continue producing point and shoots which are about to be beaten by smart phones, those will go. So I expect Cybershots to become high end in the RX100 and RX1 vein, there is definitely a differentiated buyer for those. Nex is doing almost unbelievably well well and I think the A99 reports are extremely positive in this new area of hybrid still and video photography. Every camera will be Wi Fi enabled, makes sense as camera’s become more optical computing platforms type of devices. Sensor sizes and a total redesign of sensors is on the cards. 56mp is not far off. 2013/2014. As for optics, well these two are being redesigned and that is a very interesting development.
Sony does not need a complicated road map. All they need to do to win my business is to produce a:
Mirrorless
Full Frame
AA filter free
High resolution
PDAF+CDAF on the sensor
Universal automatic adapter mount
Camera.
Have to agree – those features are the way of the future. On-sensor focussing will eliminate the SLT, which should actually lower costs and squeeze out all the possible performance from the light entering the camera.
And if it’s not implied, it should be small.
The future should be full mirrorless, layered sensors. I can’t help imagining a high-mp sensor with huge resolution as Sigma Foveon plus high iso as Sony Exmor. That would be the closest thing to perfection.
Unfortunately Sony chickened out on the RX1, which could have been a great camera:
1. They made it too small for a secure grip.
2. They made it too small for sufficient processing power making the image quality and ISO capability pretty much ordinary.
3. They didn’t have the guts to introduce the new universal automatic adapter mount.
My thinking
1) Release full frame NEX
2) Release more NEX stuff
3) Abandon Alpha immediately.
It is waste of time to invest in Alpha. CaNikon are thousands of miles ahead of A99 even D600 is tons better DSLR then A99 can ever hope to be. Trying to win CaNikon battle on their turf is silly.
NEX is different and even today NEX-7 is better than D600. I just needed full frame NEX-7 with 85/1.8 lens to not buy D600.
A99 no I do not need vastly overpriced yesteryear technology.
Bring your D600 and its dirty sensor to my house and put it up against my A99. Or if I am in your neighborhood, I’ll have my A99 with me. If, in fact, you own a D600.
I guess you have vast experience with the A99?
I agree, a dirty sensor that you have to clean after every 1000 shots because of OIL (!!!) spots and thereby invalidating your guarantee or a left AF issue, rear screen colour issues and plenty more issues, see here for a “little” taste http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/1021 really make me want to change to Nikon…Nikon brought out a whole bunch of lemons lately, have lousy service practice and leave their customers in the dark…
You ARE kidding?
Stef.
NEX TROLLS…
god… worse then a flu.
Full mirrorless? That’s a very good news for me. Challenging Canon and Nikon with Sony Alpha DSLT cameras are like fighting two guys with guns with a knife (you could win but it might take a (very) long time). Strengthening mirrorless NEX with entry 3, mid 5, semi 6, pro 7, mirrorless FF 9, complete (and sometimes unnecessary) lenses ans accessories would provide solid ground for Sony to become a major still image camera maker. As technology moves forward perhaps Sony could make its DSLT cameras to become full DSLM/T cameras.
Or perhaps there should be an Android Experia – NEX phone/camera… who knows…
So is the current “rumor” that the rumored 2013 A-Mount full-frame will be of a mirrorless design?
Good business strategy is to put more resources in the areas of your business which show the most promise. The biggest problem right now is everyone and their mom owns a Nex. Only the people reading this have any interest in upgrading their current model. I imagine 90% of Nex owners never upgrade again and half of those only use the kit lens. So new models are made to attract new buyers and those are going to decrease over time or attract upgrades, which is a small percent of the market. So what about the 10% of the market who will upgrade? They only have so much patience before they realize the bodies aren’t wholesale improvements and the native lens portfolio is an issue. And some of those folks are OK with their Nex-7 and 24mm Zeiss until something groundbreaking happens like the RX-1. Then they sell the Nex-7 and 24mm in the used market, at Zero net profit to Sony above the RX-1.
no sony has put weather seal + standard hot shoe in recent products. If he put IBIS in NEX & put OSS in tele-lens (plus really improved AF pattern + larger battery).
N/C high end market will be impact some.
If Sony does pull away from the SLT/SLR market people will drop their alphas faster than humanly possible.
I know if they’ll be focusing Nex I’ll be switching to Nikon and not spending anymore on Sony.
I totally disagree. It will be a luxury to shoot Sony/Minolta. If Sony drops the Alpha, they should do us all a favor and open the software and hardware specification to allow a new culture of homegrown enthusiasts.
I am afraid Sony will give up support for scew-driven and SAM lenses just like they changed the hot shoe. The A-mount may stay, but possibly only with SSM. In the transitonal phase to the full mirrorless roadmap they may use CDAF and on-sensor PDAF. Screw-driven lenses don’t work well with CDAF.
That may explain why some lenses are dropped. These could be screw-driven or SAM lenses. They just don’t make sense anymore. Instead, they reassign resources to speed up development of SSM lenses already in the pipeline.
Sony wont give up screw driven AF for a long time, at least in upper models, and the reasons are this:
16/2.8 fisheye
20/2.8
28/2.8
35/1.4
50/2.8 macro
50/1.4
100/2.8 macro
Zeiss 85/1.4
Zeiss 135/1.8
11-18
16-80
16-105
18-200
18-250
24-105
As Hellven said, there are just too many Sony/Zeiss lenses out there with screw drive for them to abandon it completely just yet. What remains to be seen is what level of support they will have. We know it’s possible for screw-driven lenses to work with on-sensor PDAF, since the 50/1.4 works already. But will Sony do the legwork to address all of their existing catalog of lenses for on-sensor PDAF, or will they just do a few? What about third-party and legacy Minolta lenses? I have about a dozen wonderful Minolta lenses (including several Gs), and my gut tells me these will never benefit from on-sensor PDAF.
In which case, even if they keep the screw drive in the body, my classic lenses will be MF-only once they drop the mirror and go to on-sensor PDAF. I really don’t look forward to that day.
So, should I wait with getting A99 and stick with A77 with 24-70CZ?
No way! The A99 is orders of magnitude better than the A77 and your glass will shine with the A99, especially with AF-D.
1. We have the RX1 and the RX100 – what kind will the RX10 be? Have high hopes on that one..
2. Opposite to some above I believe Sony can build SLR/SLT style cameras as good as CaNikon does. (The A99 has weaker sides but also stronger sides.) The problem is to create a total offering that makes Sony more attractive than CaNikon – to professionals and enthusiasts.
just sold my 5N when i still can and plan to switch to fuji. This company is in downward spiral since 2001 and ANY system from Sony is just not reliable, just like the Alpha system. better idea to just get the standalone camera like the rx100 or even rx1 from sony.
Not reliable? Have you even used a Sony Alpha SLR/SLT? Please enlighten us how they’re not reliable? You sound like a lost fanboy on the wrong website.
What he means is that it is hard to deduce what Sony will do next. I dont why many are missing the point here. Admin has stated that it will be hard to give accurate rumors of any cameras coming up in the near future because Sony is about to change is future road map. S why would this be if the present map was working? Could it be that the SLT is underselling? How about the the a99, how better is it doing in the market? Not that good if I may think, considering that in the US for an a99 you could get a 32 inch TV. Really? Another pointer is the recent advert that is pushing for nex cameras. Was that just a mishap? I dont think so. If we can remove ourselves as users and just look at the shareholders, I think everybody would have voted for the nex.
sony is losing money and cant continue to do so, things need to change.
sorry for any misunderstanding as I was referring to the commitment from Sony to the system is not reliable, not the quality of the product.
These new cameras should drop the hot shoe. Yep… no hot shoe at all… because the flash system is so screwed up that it doesn’t matter having one anyway. Make the high ISO performance so good that no flash is necessary. Make the dynamic range so good that no fill flash or balance flash is necessary. Make the shutter so fast that no high speed flash is necessary to stop action.
Yes come’on Sony! You can do it all without a wacky jacks flash system.
Wait… better keep that new hot shoe because everyone is rushing to buy the $800 XLR adapter.
External flash and strobes are an important part of why DSLRs are still prized. It makes sense for SONY to replicate that functionality. And fill flash balances subject/background exposure, it’s not a question of just DR.
This news means will be not getting the promised lenses anytime soon. Sony keeps failing to understand that people need lenses for an interchangeable lens camera system. People buy into a SYSTEM, not an individual camera. I foresee Sony releasing the FF mirrorless camera with ONE native FF E-Mount lens. I’m guessing another 18-50mm OSS or perhaps a a 24-70mm OSS. They will pack an adapter with the inception cameras and say “All of our A mount lens will work great with this new adapter.” Seriously, it pains Sony to make lenses. It doesn’t matter that they knew three years prior to introducing the camera that they would be making FF E-mount lenses. When the FF NEX comes out, enthusiast and reviewers with yell at Sony that they must provide proper FF NEX E-Mount lenses besides a kit lens. Sony will be derided for making a small FF camera that needs a bulky adapter and big A- mount lenses. But Sony will not listen. That’s what’s in store for the future. The Sony reps will respond that they have “Conveyed the concerns to Sony management,” and NOTHING will happen.
Go and buy an EOS-M or an XE1 then. I am sorry, but SONY are way ahead of the competition in lens support and are only slightly behind 4/3. And those that really want quality IQ spend the money and buy Leica and Zeiss and Voigtlander. Meanwhile the average consumer is mostly content with a normal range zoom.
John M. your comment makes no sense. Comparing a Sony FF camera to APS-C cameras is comparing apples to oranges. You appear to not understand there are NO extant FF E-mount lenses, nor do you understand Sony’s past/current track record of under-delivering on lenses. This news from Andrea is stating that Sony is letting the ‘Roadmap’ dates slip even further behind. Saying someone should alternately buy the two-native-lens Canon APS-C EOS-M seems even further devoid of logic. If you mean to say Sony has the most amount of mirrorless lens models, that’s incorrect as well- Samsung has that distinction. Not sure why you brought up quality, but my current Zeiss Contax lens (like many other lenses) will not cover the full image circle needed for full-frame imaging. A-mount lenses will be far larger than the pending mirrorless FF Sony body, esp. when the required adapter is attached, thus negating the usefullness of the smaller camera body. Lastly you mention the “Average consumer using [only] a zoom.” Anyone who is willing to spend $2500. or more is far from “Average.” There will surely be people that are upset there is only 1 FF E-mount lens for their expensive camera [if we even get that one zoom lens].
For others unclear on the concept, using current E-mount lenses on the
upcoming Sony FF mirrorless cam, will result in a smaller image area of the FF sensor being used than a FF lens.
I was responding to the complaint that SONY are slow to deliver lenses on E-mount for APS-C.
Using Wikipedia. EOS-M currently has 2 lenses available. Fuji X-mount has I believe 3 with more planned. Conversely Samsung has 12 native lenses and SONY also has 12. However SONY have additional lenses from Zeiss (1, with 3 coming) and Sigma (2).
In comparison with competitors, SONY are fine in terms of lens choice. Yes, they are behind u4/3, but it’s not nearly so bad for the consumer as some pretend. It has taken decades for Canon and Nikon to build up their selections.
But I am genuinely curious, which Contax lens are you using that does not cover full-frame? Contax in all it’s variations was a 35mm SLR standard. They’re very popular on Canon (no mirror clearance issues).
Just to add, it’s the ZM series of Zeiss that work great on NEX because they are 1/3 the size of SLR lenses like alpha or contax. Likewise M rather than R lenses for Leica.
You have to give SONY a chance to introduce this stuff.
Again the news we are posting about is that Sony is again delaying it’s lens roadmap. A little background research shows that this is nothing new for Sony. The Leica M and Contax G have only a APS-C sized coverage circle at the 18mm E-Mount spec. The Contax G series are not SLR lenses, they are rangefinder non-retrofocal lenses. Yes, the manual ZM Zeiss series will cover FF, but you are quite wrong in the size comparison. The size of the ZM Zeiss with adapter is far bigger than the size of the Contax G with anadapter.
Why we should give Sony a chance? Because history shows us that Sony consistently fails to deliver needed lenses in a timely manner. Sony has already delivered the NEX FF VG900, and it DOES NOT have a auto FF E-mount lens. Filmakers usally pull focus manually, so this is not as big an issue as it will be on a FF still camera. If we put pressure on Sony now, they may do the right thing and support their product with FF mirrorless lenses when the FF NEX bows in 2013.
Zony, Go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lens_mount. And look at the table for Leica M and Contax G and you will see they both list a 35mm frame size. Fullframe refers to the 35mm film standard. To be able to be used in a film camera they had to be able to cover a fullframe image circle.
And I own both ZM and Contax G lenses (and adaptors) and they are substantially the same size. The ZMs are in very fact slightly smaller because they avoid electronics or mechanical linkages for focus.
If you don’t think SONY should be given a chance, before they have even released a e-mount 35mm stills camera, then you are an unreasonable customer, and the reason why SONY produced the RX1 rather than a FF ILC NEX.
Only 12 Sony cameras in Amazon’s Top 100:
Cyber-shot DSC-WX150, Cyber-shot W610, Cyber-shot W620, Cyber-shot W650, Cyber-shot W690, Cyber-shot HX20V, Cyber-shot HX200V, the Cyber-shot HX30V. No SLTs or RXes far and wide.
In the “Most Wished for 100”: Sony Nex, the RX1, the RX100, the HX20V. No SLTs far and wide.
In the “Best Rated” list: several versions of the A57 and the RX100.
Looks like it’s a long and tedious process to become serious competition to Canon and Nikon.
By the way: the Sony camera department IS making money, so they appear to be on the right track.
Also, if they succeeded in adding focusing information to the sensor, which is something they are working on, there really is no need for a mirror anymore, not even a translucent mirror. That could be one of the reasons for a changed roadmap.
The sooner Sony gets rid of the pellicle mirror, the better.
A lot of people with an opinion here based on apparently no experience of the products…
I have an RX100 – a fantastic camera.
So good in fact, it made my me buy an A99.
Believe me, as someone with both Canon 5D2 and now A99 rigs, I can tell you that the A99 SLT is one fantastic camera.
Sony are on the right track. The A99 rocks.
Rufus: Why would you buy a Sony A99 just because of your love of RX100 if you already have a Canon 5D MkII and matching lenses? It makes no sense unless you have a lot of money to throw away. That seems to be the SONY target market: Newly minted wealthy people in Asia or Europe who still value SONY brand and want the brand name on their expensive photo toys.
Meanwhile in the real world, the Nikon 36mpx FF D800 is selling on the street and on Ebay for much less than the 24mpx old sensor A99 by up to $300. Meanwhile I cannot find a single A99 anywhere in my large metro city to examine or try out and even online there are very few A99s for sale in the USA.
Sony has had an opportunity to stop sabotaging its own SLR-type products by poor pricing, poor scale of manufacturing and poor marketing. But every year Sony manages to show that it cannot be trusted to run a competent SLR business.
Even the successful NEX series has been sabotaged by SONY by the lack of production of hq, fast,small lenses and the introduction of the NEX-7 with the crippled high-noise 24mpx sensor.
Investment in the production of a wide range of lenses is the critical determining factor if a company stands by its camera bodies and system for the long haul. You be the judge for SONY.
Their marketing is so bad that you fell for it and have been eating acid here for quite some time. So if we are to judge Sony the way you suggest, we can judge your intellect too? 😉
hey, you are wrong on the 24.3mp sensor being older than the old real old 36.7mp used by Nikon.
the Sony 24.3mp is the latest Sony FF chip to date.
Fullframe NEX is mostly a forum hype. I do not want to put even bigger lenses on a small NEX body. Sony just needs to produce better lenses. Then NEX is more than sufficient for consumer market. NEX 7 delivers amazing image quality. Why go fullframe with bigger and heavier lenses? Sony needs to release more fast high quality primes and a quality zoom.
Go away, Nut
A NEX with a full frame sensor doesn’t need to be used with FF lenses all the time. With current lenses, you can use crop mode. Turn landscape to portrait (or square) mode without rotating the camera. Cool, isn’t it?
But the price will be expensive, so I think I’m settled with APS-C NEX.
NEX 7 sensor turns corners purple on wides. It does so on SONY’s own e-mount 16/2.8 and on the new wide zoom. It’s the reason why many of us purchased the superior 5n/5r/6 instead. Sony’s new fullframe sensor has no such colour shift, but they need to remove the AA filter to avoid refraction causing detail to be smeared.
A FF NEX is attractive because a mirroless flange adaptor for any lens could be attached so that all the good glass from other manufacturers could be used. At that point, product loyalty based on previous lens purchases would be finished, and switching to Sony much much easier. To make switching even more attractive, Sony would have to use killer sensors that they won’t sell to other manufacturers (or select few, such as Hassie).
Most of what Andrea labels “unique” is not.
Unique could be, e.g., electronically moving&titling sensor (replacing bulky and inconvenient in-lens T&S adaptors)
Sony can build best cameras and lenses, but if you can not find them in the stores, there will be no revenue for the company.
Their marketing strategy is not better than Minolta.
A99, NEX-6 and Nikon D600 were announced in September 2012.In the middle of November one could try and buy D600 everywhere, in every BestBuy and even Costco together with whole array of other Nikon DSLR’s.
I am yet to see A99 and NEX-6 “in flesh”, so instead of spending my money for Sony cameras I got myself Mac computer.
Before Sony will get their acts together Nikon will sell thousand of well priced cameras and lenses to go with them.
For Sony it is another lost Christmas season opportunity to make money,they late again.
Year from now A99 will be old story.
There is not even A99 review on Dpreview website.
Hopefully Sony will not drop their A Mount… I know people love mirrorless camera. But if Sony drop A Mount, I am sure people will start to switch system.
-A55 owner.
It’s about time Sony wakes up. Reduce work on compacts. They’re losing marketshare to smartphones. Reduce work on DSLT. It’s a declining market, and they will never catch Canikon in their own turf. Mirrorless is where they need to focus their energy. Forget about converting dinosaur DSLT into mirrorless. Just focus on NEX. The 10 people around the world who owns Alpha systems will complain, but the millions who buy NEX will be happy… so will Sony’s shareholders and debt holders.
New FF NEX mount. Make it happen!
Good video codec[ALL-I OR XAVC] on full frame. no moire or aliasing pls….
New roadmap please include 100mm macro for Emount please!!! 300mm super zoom please!!! These are basic camera needs!!!