As reported on Amateur Photographer and Photographyblog Sony stressed to say that A-mount stays well alive. Both lineups will continue. And Sony even told at PB that “a new mid to high-end Alpha mount camera body is currently under development. Due to be released in 2014”
I will work on new A and E-mount rumors from today on!
Note: Because of WordPress technical issues on Aksimet only registered member can write comments for now. We hope to solve it soon!
Specs and Preorders in US and Canada (Click on store name to see direct preorder page / some links via Dealsrunner):
Dedicated Sony announcement page at Amazon US (Click here).
Sony A7r body at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
Sony A7 body at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
Sony A7 with 28-70mm kit lens at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
Sony RX10 at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
Zeiss 24-70mm at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
Zeiss 35mm at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
Zeiss 55mm at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
70-200mm A-mount at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
Sony A-Mount to E-Mount Lens Adapter at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto.
Sony A to E adapter with mirror at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto.
A7/A7r leather case at Amazon, Adorama, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
A7/A7r vertical grip at Amazon, BHphoto, SonystoreUS.
Sony W Series Battery Charger at Amazon, BHphoto.
Sony FA-CS1M Off-Camera Shoe at BHphoto.
Semi-Hard LCD Screen Protector for A7-A7r at Amazon, BHphoto.
Specs and Preorders in Europe:
Sony A7r body at Sony DE, UK, FR, IT, FI, WexUK, WexDE.
Sony A7 body at Sony DE, UK, FR, IT, FI, FR, WexUK, WexDE.
Sony A7 with 28-70mm kit Sony DE, UK, FR, IT, FI, FR, WexUK, WexDE.
Sony RX10 at Sony DE, WexUK, WexDE.
Zeiss 35mm at Sony DE.
Zeiss 55mm at Sony DE.
121 Responses
:)!!!!
The pre order is now on Sony’s Australian website but its a ripoff compared to others around the world at $1999 or US$1908 for A7 and $2499 or US $2290.
Sorry second price is for the A7R.
I should have paid more attention instead of rushing to feed my dog as i made a few mistakes, I wish you could edit instead of clogging up the comments. A7R is US$2395 when converted back so is a little closer to the US price but I don’t understand why they didn’t keep the A7 close.
What happened to the supposed revolutionary A Mount mirrorless FF cameras that even the Sony CEO was following and pushing it?
They announced it yesterday.
Yesterday was ” game changing”
Revelutionary is for 2015.
Yesterday was ” game changing”
Revelutionary is for 2015.
A new type of none Bayer sensor???
Lets hope they re-think their pricing of A-mount lenses! The new 70-200 G II is $1000 more expensive than the older model, without any significant changes in design.
The Canon with IS costs less than the new Sony, and unless Sony has done something to improve the optics, the Canon is sharper.
I will spend half as much and buy the Tamron 70-200 USD. It will look great in my camera bag next to the Tamron 24-70 USD that I bought after returning my Sony Zeiss 24-70 that wasn’t as sharp as the Tamron, and saved me about $700 in the process.
I have been faithful to Sony since buying my first a700, and I was faithful to Minolta before that. However, if Sony is going to ignore the needs of the precious few working professionals out there like myself who rely on their cameras to feed their families, how long do they think they will keep what little share of the pro market they currently hold???
$3000 for a sub-par 70-200 isn’t going to cut it Sony.
+1
Sony is doing its best to completely p**s me off.
During the past years I really got used to experience certain disappointments with them. But lately they have been crossing the line and making me seriously considering to give up.
4,5 years waiting for an Alpha FF successor (which even then has multiple drawbacks), only few new/updated lenses, new pro flash not really pro, Nex7 with corner issues and no successor on the horizon, except for the 24/1.8 Zeiss every E-Mount lens had centering issues, getting the 70400G2 for 1,5x price with no significant improvements except SSM speed, releasing the Planar 50 for a tremendous price of 1,4k€ (at least a fourth too expensive), skipping the FF successor from the roadmap for the E-Mount hunchbacks (which have a good spec, but also a lot of drawbacks), announcing the slightly improved 70200G2 for 3!!!! 3k€ (analogue 70400G2 still not sealed), and now they are smashing our hopes for a FF Amount in early 2014 by announcing a “Semi-Pro” Amount which will certainly be an APS-C only.
As you can read, it is not just being trivial criticism but speaking out serious disappointments with a brand I used to love since roughly 15 years (including other consumer and prosumer electronics) now.
Cmon Sony – do something about it. I am sure I am not the only one thinking that way.
… this is because, they still need to sell a lot more copies of the A99 in its ridiculously high price tag…. simple.
If E-mount sales go through the roof, and E-mount users love 70-200mm F4. Then Sony will give them a 70-200mm F2.8. Why? cuz money is there. Then there will be 85mm and 135mm and 24-70mm, etc.
I will not be surprised if the E-mount 70-200mm F4 kicks the 70-200mm F2.8 ass at F4 and up.
It is not hard to improve optical Minolta design. Tamron did it will its new lens.
Canon 70-200 f/2.8 (without IS, as is the Sony) costs $1200.
3000$ is exactly 2,5 times more expensive. What the hell are they thinking?!
2,5 times more expensive and 2,5 times worse in terms of optical quality. Ironic, isn’t it? 😉
It seems, more than ever, that Sony is trying to sell their cameras as low as possible and then make big bucks on lenses.
$3000,00 for the 70-200mm F2.8? SRSLY?
I would rather wait for the reviews before I make any comments.
is there any? someone must have tested it.
Their big glass cannot compete with Canon, neither design-wise nor on economies of scale which Sony does not have. The most sensible thing for an A7 owner wanting to do wildlife is getting a Metabones adaptor for Canon lenses. I do not understand why they even bother releasing something like the f4/500mm for A-mount. Its optical quality is traling behind the Canon. It does not have IS. It is huge in comparison and it costs almost twice as much on the street. Do the Sony camera division managers understand their business well enough, I wonder.
IS tis going to be a FF camera?
Read below: “have news soon…”
Admin: Still, no preorder links for NL? I ordered direct though I would have wanted go through here as a mark of support..
I am with you DiBok i think Sony Sony try to prepair us for the A mount end.
3 GI lens latly updated to GII the 300G/70-400G & now 70-200G we have now the new version without any signifisant improvement. These lens excepth the 70-400G were desind from Minolta. They wer very good and still very good but i cant beleive that after 10 years Sony couldnt desing a complete new lens. This means for me that Sony just trying with minor expense in research and develop to keep A mount alive until the E mount is strong enought to stop the production of A mount lens and cameras.
Come on Sony you are playing a very dangerous game to loose your existing A mount customers
Dear Andrea, after all this FF hype I suppose a lot of people would like to know more about the future of E-mount cameras in rangefinder style, i.e. NEX. Me and many others have heavily invested in a NEX-7 plus several native lenses, and neither want to switch to FF nor to APS-C in DSLR-style. I simply cannot imagine that this whole camera line will be discontinued. What about all these recently introduced E-Mount Touit lenses etc.? Any reassurance by your research will be greatly appreciated!
Admin, I am most interested in knowing if there will be third E-mount model anytime soon, possibly with IBIS and a touch screen 🙂 I don’t care about the form factor or design, just the features 🙂 but it should be smaller than A99.
I meant E-mount full frame of course.
Hopefully Sony bring out mirrorless A-mount with OSPDAF Z-shift and 5 axis IBSIS in early 2014 as earlier rumored
Don’t believe every dream you read about here. The only rumors here which come true are the ones predicted by common sense.
Common sense would dictate that all camera manufacturers will be 95% mirrorless and OSPDAF.
The smart camera makers would include some form of IBIS
The truly innovative one would include Z-shift which would allow almost any lens ever made to auto focus.
🙂
I never doubted A-mount would survive. But the big question is, will it be another SLT or have Sony been able to refine OSPDAF so much it is good enough to replace the PDAF of SLT? That I highly doubt.
I doubt that too, otherwise Sony would advertise the A7’s PDAF like that. Well, they don’t.
… living in the la la land of marketing BS … if you try out the NEX-6, it’s AF speed is nowhere near the DSLR-based PDAF.
canon was in the same position of no new models for a while in their semi pro range, and responded by releasing a 7D firmware update with new features, thus kicking sales up. Here’s hoping for the A77/99, although I’m not too confident 🙁
Sony sucks when it comes to fw updates 🙁
+1
I also hope that Sony will make a firmware update for us.
However, I doubt about it.
Sony is totally focus on potential user to expand their share.
They don’t care much about the current user.
Same here. With the new GII lenses a A77 FW update is more than overdue.
A58 and following camera models have better tracking algorithms than in A99 (not even talking about A77 – does it have one? I cant remeber – 😉 ).
Wasn’t that after about 4 years? You’d have to wait almost another 2 years since the A77 is just over two years old. 😉
haha yes, good point!
Perhaps four years from a glacial company like Canon is not four years from a release heavy company like Sony, who works in dog years by comparison 🙂
And anyway, it feels like an eternity already what with all the other cool stuff that Sony is passing us by with 😀
Yay a new commenting system.
+1
The 70-200 update was massively disappointing. I wish Canikon offered me the features that I love from the a99; if they did I would switch in a heartbeat. Thankfully there is the Tamron 70-200 which is awesome, and will almost certainly outperform the new Sony offering. Hopefully semipro is referring to the a99, 5dIII, D800 market, so will be at least FF.
Disappointing? What’s happening people? Sony’s glass is the most exceptional in market. No other lens makers come close. I’m sure It will blow away every 70-200 on earth.
Even the New Tamron A009 has much better IQ compare to current Sony 70-200G.
http://g2.img-dpreview.com/3428BACDDF694C4D81F9F70BF2E105E8.jpg
http://g3.img-dpreview.com/EAD949B348AE4274852D4C581945D57E.jpg
i would say the price is disappointing, but i would like to see more review before giving a final judging. But i still very hard to believe it can match the price point easily, unless it really giving very kick ass quality, if not i will just look for 3rd party lens
I generally agree with you, but everything about the “new” lens is identical to the old one … Except the price.
Disqus garbage? Seriously? 🙁
IMHO Previous commenting system was much better. Disqus got so many issues that it’s hard to believe sometimes how bad it is.
@Andrea : Do you have more information about the new coming semipro-camera ?
Will it be a APSC or FF?
SLT or mirrorless ?
Let’s see if this works.
It works.
@Admin just a week ago you said “The “real” A-mount FF are coming in early 2014” is that what we can expect?
have news soon…
Sony is doing its best to completely p**s me off.
During the past years I really got used to experience certain disappointments with them. But lately they have been crossing the line and making me seriously considering to give up.
4,5 years waiting for an Alpha FF successor (which even then has multiple drawbacks), only few new/updated lenses, new pro flash not really pro, Nex7 with corner issues and no successor on the horizon, except for the 24/1.8 Zeiss every E-Mount lens had centering issues, getting the 70400G2 for 1,5x price with no significant improvements except SSM speed, releasing the Planar 50 for a tremendous price of 1,4k€ (at least a fourth too expensive), skipping the FF successor from the roadmap for the E-Mount hunchbacks (which have a good spec, but also a lot of drawbacks), announcing the slightly improved 70200G2 for 3!!!! 3k€ (analogue 70400G2 still not sealed), and now they are smashing our hopes for a FF Amount in early 2014 by announcing a “Semi-Pro” Amount which will certainly be an APS-C only.
As you can read, it is not just being trivial criticism but speaking out serious disappointments with a brand I used to love since roughly 15 years (including other consumer and prosumer electronics) now.
Cmon Sony – do something about it. I am sure I am not the only one thinking that way.
You’ve waited just 6 more months than Canon and Nikon users to get that FF successor. I am using the 10-18 lens on my NEX-7 and I very rarely have any corner issues. What FF successor are they skipping for the A7/r? Those do sound like very trivial and subjective issues.
Don’t agree.
And I assume these criticism neither being trivial nor subjective.
Don’t get me wrong with the comment on the NEX7. I love it so far.
And I didn’t say I can’t live with it shortcomings. I also have rarely matters with it, because I know the issue and I am able to circle around it by either composing or setting the camera. But fact of the matter is that it has certain issues with its sensor.
Have you seen any A-mount movement besides some lenses?
As far as I remember Andrea mentioned beginning of the year, that they will bind resources to the E-mount projects. So it can be understood, that it has been skipped (schedule wise) for the A7.
Don’t get me wrong here. I am not one of the blamers. More a Sony fanboy, that is a little bit “p.o.” at the moment.
DiBok, don’t get me wrong, I actually do think that you raised valid points, I just don’t agree with the ones that I pointed out in my comment 🙂 For example, I can’t say I have much problems with the NEX-7 using Sony lenses and I don’t see why Sony should be doing anything to help us use adapted lenses (although, admittedly, it would be nice if they do).
On the other hand, I do agree with your disappointment with the lack of movement on the Alpha side and some of the pricing lately. It’s good that at least Sony is finally starting to communicate.
That sounds better to me, Vlad.
I usually like your communication here, so I was a bit confused why you compared to CaNikon guys. I am pretty much experienced in Roadmap items to market products periods from my job.
On the other hand I did not exactly specify what I meant.
It did not disapoint me, that there was no successor of the A99 coming quickly.
I was disapointed that the promised high end model (rumored as A1) did not come, and that they currently only announce the semi-pro model which I understand as an advanced APS-C model.
And to be honest I don’t understand the A7R as an appropriate placeholder for the High end model. Not IQ wise, I can’t judge that without testing it. I refer to AF, to battery type, to shutter noise, and to some objective early hands-on tests.
DiBok, looking at my comment, I could’ve explained better 🙂
I see your point about the A cameras. I hope that new 2014 camera will make A-mount users happy. Maybe they’ll make an FF successor to the A77? The A7/r certainly look like enthusiast models, not really high-end. I don’t consider them place holders, but it is getting confusing lately with all these Sony lines.
Your issues are not in the corners…
Vlad–There’s no reason to be argumentative and inarticulate. The issues that DirkB raised were supported by facts that are most certainly not subjective. And clearly the issues are not trivial to DirkB.
Consider my positiion: Leica film guy, now I shoot Canon, but I have many nice A-mount lenses for which I would enjoy a new Sony A-mount FF, but which I don’t strictly “need”. I have no real horse in this race, so I can speak as close to “objectively” as possible.
Major issues: SLT was clearly a temporary experiment, Sony said so themselves. Anything in the light path that blocks some light and that has the potential to either distort over time, or fail entirely, is undesirable. Also, the system itself won’t receive any long-term attention from Sony, which is equally undesirable. It is already being phased out. No rational person who is interested in real photography is going to invest in a system that has a service life of only a couple of years, unless they can get it extremely cheaply–and the A99 isn’t cheap. Undesirable.
Lenses–the criticism is of Sony, not of the entire spectrum of A-mount lenses. I love my old A-mount glass: 100 macro, 200 hs, 50/1.7, I even have an excellent example of the beercan, the best I have seen. New offerings from Zeiss, Tamron, and Sigma are interesting–but from Sony? Not. Fair enough, if all they want to do is bodies, but if they were to forego the lens business, one would expect the quality of their bodies to rise accordingly–which they have not, as far as A-mount is concerned. And it’s not that they have actually decided not to do lenses, it is that the lenses they have done are absurd, relative to market options. Any time you buy a body, you are subsidizing this lens absurdity, which makes the bodies less competitive as compared to other brands, on price. Undesirable.
Processing engines–I’m a patent attorney, and I understand the coding game as it is shaped by patent law. Inferior engines are acceptable if Sony is unable to conclude appropriate licensing deals, or doesn’t have the capability or won’t commit the resources to developing a better proprietary engine. The field is crowded. I could see the long lapse in bringing out a new and better engine, if Sony was waiting for existing patents to expire–but nothing seems to be happening on this front. Consumers are waiting a long time to receive the same, relatively inferior processing engines. Undesirable.
etc.
These issues are neither “trivial” nor subjective. Yes, the totality of the decision of what system to invest in is ultimately subjective, but it relies in part on objective realities–realities that prevent people like myself, DirkB, and others from investing further in the A-mount system.
The “new mid to high-end Alpha mount body” will have to demonstrate something really significant, not just in relation to the former A-mount lineup, but in relation to other brand offerings as well, in order for people in my position to pull the trigger.
The waiting has almost turned from vexing, to boring. At some point it would be reasonable to conclude that past history reflects the ethos of the company, and that it will NEVER actually change, and that its types of offerings will never really change. From my position, the very next A-mount offering is their last opportunity, unless it is not FF and is followed closely in time by an FF offering, in which case that will be their very last opportunity.
Life’s too short to wait much longer for Sony to address fundamental issues, since there are plenty of other options. Thanks for reading.
Why should I consider your position after you calling me “argumentative and inarticulate”? My arguments were also supported by facts, we did wait only 6 months more than other brands. And how is that not trivial? I have the widest Sony lens on the NEX-7 and I barely have any issues, that is also a fact. I’ve seen a problem in maybe 10 shots (all of them fixable) from several thousands, how is that not trivial?
But let’s discuss your position, because I disagree on some points.
SLT is a technology used in the final product, which is an A-mount camera. Technologies come and go, I don’t see how it is related to the service life of the system? They are discontinuing a transitional feature, not the product. And, admittedly, it does indeed have shortcomings (as well as advantages), but half a stop lesser performance in low light? I don’t see this as some a big issue for the majority of users. So, trivial and subjective.
Lenses, I am skipping as I mostly agree. Not trivial.
Processing engines, I am not sure what are we discussing here, could you elaborate?
“These issues are neither “trivial” nor subjective.”
> If you look one more time at my first comment, I listed several points and called them trivial, I certainly did not disagree with everything DirkB said.
Vlad–
No need to get your undies in a bundle. You make the mistake of assuming that it was you who I wanted to consider my position–a mistake that is understandable, given the wording that I used.
I directed the comment toward all posters, not to you in particular.
But, as you say, let’s discuss your position:
I am speaking A-mount, not NEX.
You can slice the baloney however thinly you want. Playing your semantic game, I will suggest that the “featuring” of the SLT “technology” identifies the class of “product”, the same as does “SLR” or “rangefinder” or “mirrorless”. It is a technology around which the system is built, and upon which the system depends. It is the central identifying feature of the system.
With its discontinuance, that system will not continue to evolve. No support for the system. No further development of superior pellicles within the constraints of the system. No further extraction of performance from existing systems. No further exploration of system capabilities. No further development of dependent systems. You know what I mean. This appears to be another instance of you being argumentative. They are in fact discontinuing not only the SLT “feature”, they are discontinuing the SLT-based “product”, and the entire SLT-based “product line”.
That is an objective fact.
Your first comment asked “What FF successor are they skipping for the A7/r?” Answer: the native alpha-mount mirrorless FF successor to the SLT-based A99. Why not have just released that instead of the A7/r, with the same features, only in A-mount? After all there are existing A-mount FF lenses that could have been used with it, but no, they had to release a new system for which there were no native FE lenses, unless I am mistaken. In any case, it can easily be argued that they skipped a native alpha-mount mirrorless FF successor to the SLT-based A99 in favor of the A7/r.
Again, it is an objective fact that they released the A7/r before that successor alpha-mount FF.
Regarding the SLT half-stop: you gloss over the fact, and substitute your own judgment as the most important thing. Not only is there a half-stop, but there is a potential reliability issue. Whether these things are trivial to you is not relevant–the point is that they are non-trivial to some, including DirkB, and that their judgment is based on an objective fact–the half-stop.
“The majority of users”. Nice strawman. Neither DirkB nor myself ever claimed to represent the position of “the majority of users”. If you wish to have a discussion with yourself, fine. The objective facts are, however, universal to “all users”.
And the lens issue, as far as Sony is concerned. The fact that there are Zeiss, Sigma, Tamron, and legacy Minolta do not make Sony a better company, and do not make their imaging division any better.
I’m not a fanboy, but I do hold out hope–although hope only lasts for so long. In my case, you have to go back to the A580 as the last sign of hope, because although it was not FF and it still had a mirror, at least it was native A-mount, had no SLT, and at least tried to do some of the basics well at its price point. Inferior body, inferior processing engine, inferior sensor, etc.–but it all worked, with IBIS.
If I’m going to invest in a FF system (I still own an 850), I want it to get the basics right–not just at a price point, but actually right. That wasn’t the A99. Hopefully it will be the successor. I would like to come on here and state the following facts:
1) focussing functionally implemented on-chip, fast as anything out there, no over-heating
2) sensor as good as any on the market
3) processing as good as any on the market
4) more robust system than SLT, with less potential sources of failure
5) native A-mount with IBIS.
Not sure how you arrive at a “semantics game” from what I wrote. Maybe I am too articulate?
“With its discontinuance, that system will not continue to evolve. No support for the system. No further development of superior pellicles within the constraints of the system. No further extraction of performance from existing systems. No further exploration of system capabilities. No further development of dependent systems. You know what I mean.”
> I have no clue what you mean. Which system will not evolve or won’t be supported? Sony are switching technologies, going from SLT to on-sensor PDAF, that’s it. The feature, AF, is there, it’s certainly an evolution and the A-system lenses will be supported. Where’s the problem?
“Why not have just released that (A99 successor) instead of the A7/r, with the same features, only in A-mount? After all there are existing A-mount FF lenses that could have been used with it, but no, they had to release a new system for which there were no native FE lenses, unless I am mistaken. In any case, it can easily be argued that they skipped a native alpha-mount mirrorless FF successor to the SLT-based A99 in favor of the A7/r.”
> Seems like a strange conclusion, given that the A99 is one year old. So not easily argued at all. And by your logic, it would be impossible to release a new system.
“Regarding the SLT half-stop: you gloss over the fact, and substitute your own judgment as the most important thing. Not only is there a half-stop, but there is a potential reliability issue. Whether these things are trivial to you is not relevant–the point is that they are non-trivial to some, including DirkB, and that their judgment is based on an objective fact–the half-stop.”
> Wow, you really don’t make any sense. Did you even read what I wrote above? I don’t gloss over the fact. And what reliability issue? I acknowledge that it is a problem for some, but I assume (and consider this a very logical assumption) that it is a trivial matter for the majority of users. Consequently, I don’t see what Sony is doing wrong here, which is the point of the whole discussion.
““The majority of users”. Nice strawman. Neither DirkB nor myself ever claimed to represent the position of “the majority of users”.”
> The majority of users is for whom Sony is making cameras.
@not everyman
Stop inventing “facts”.
Vladimir is right, SLT is technology, not a system. That’s not mere semantics since the goal of SLT was to achieve fast LV and video AF capabilities without flipping mirrors. Whatever comes next will attempt to achieve the same or improve, but will not change the system.
Your reliability concerns with SLT have no real factual basis, especially since you use classic DSLR’s as a benchmark. They have as many or more issues due to more moving parts. A new SLT mirror costs less than $100 and no labour costs if you use 2 minutes of your own time. Enter mirror box replacements, OVF realignment, metering sensor calibration issues etc.
The A580 had a flash delay issue too but its sensor was not inferior to the competition. Similar to the best Nikon sensor back then overall. That being said, the suggestion that the A580 was the last one that really works, just shows you lack long time experience with SLT cameras, more than anything factual.
And that’s coming from someone who owns (pause) both.
Ignore auto corrections on names.
Let me counter again…
SLT is indeed different than SLR/DLSR. However, it has no bearing on the survival of A-mount or the functionality of A-mount lenses on future bodies for that matter. It’s a piece of plastic helping the archaic PDAF sensor. So, it’s a “feature”. If Sony can make the OSPDAF works, then we move on to the next one and your lenses will work just fine.
If you concern about the re-sale value, I understand that point of view. But you can just shoot your A99 until it fails you. Those 100k+ pictures will be more than likely making up for the loss of $2.5k you paid for the camera.
You talk about the SLT as a product/system. Since I don’t get what you’re going with this, you can give me a possible scenario in which you think phasing out SLT would be bad for A-mount system.
I got the A99 knowing that it would be obsolete quickly. But I can keep on shooting without worrying about it since A99 was the only FF with EVF and full time liveview at the time. It is still the only EVF FF camera with good ergonomics for long lenses and heavy lenses.
As to why they release the A7/r first, it makes more sense since FF E-mount has been very desirable, not only to many Sony shooters but other system as well. Potentially, it will draw a much larger user base than Sony ever could hope for with the A-mount system. Sony has to survive in this business in order to continue on. I don’t see how it doesn’t make sense to you. And the A99 is not that old to warrant an immediate release of the successor.
And I notice a funny thing. I claim that you don’t speak for the majority users. But you keep saying your argument as the “objective facts.” And such facts are relevant to “all users.” Obviously, if they are such relevant, objective facts, I would not be here to argue with you. Heck, if it is such hard truth, we don’t have any A-mount shooter right now since the imminent death of SLT would spell doom to the whole system.
Now, come to the five “facts” that you want to address to all users out there. If Sony can’t meet these five “facts” then they would, again, fail as an imaging company and will eventually phase out of existence.
1. On-chip: I assume you mean the Exmor processor dealing with manipulating the electrical signal into RAW file. As far as I know, I have not heard of any over-heating Exmor issue. The sensor, on the other hand, is over-heating because it’s now on full-time liveview mode. If video (yes, no such over-heating for stills) is such an important thing to you, please get yourself a proper camcorder or another camera for such use. Most pro videographers would only make short clips. I can think of a few director would go for the long sequence (most notably the guy made Gravity), but they obviously don’t shoot those with a mirrorless camera. I understand some people demand all-in-one solution. If so, you shouldn’t get Sony camera and whine about it. It’s well-documented.
2. Well, if you have not realized this, Sony has the best sensor on the market right now. Whether their implementation of such sensor on their camera is good enough for you is another matter (obviously the imaging department and the microchip department don’t know how to communicate effectively).
3. Again, to point 2. Is it such a big deal that Nikon, Pentax, and Olympus can squeeze a bit more out of Sony sensor than Sony? Real life shooting most likely will not show any noticeable differences. I have shot extensively with the A700 and A900, and I’m happy with what they have done with the A99.
4. Yes, I agree. SLT is a stop-gap. But replacing SLT would not affect how your lenses or any accessories would behave in the future. So you can skip the A99 right now, or any later SLT for that matter. But Sony will eventually phase out the SLT “feature.” If you can’t wait that long, it’s OK too. Buy whatever you need, it would not concern me or other A-mount shooters.
5. I thought we already have IBIS for A-mount this whole time. I’m now confused why you even bring it up…. And IBIS is not such a deal-breaker (I wouldn’t dare to claim this as an “objective facts”). After shooting with the NEX for a while, I rarely use the IBIS feature on my A99. I learned to better my shooting technique, and I know those pict that I can’t make due to motion blur would be likely worthless in my eyes anyway. Other people would think otherwise, so it’s not really an objective facts. I wouldn’t say no to additional feature though.
I’m on the same route.
Heavy investments in Minolta G Glass (years ago) and now Zeissglass. Almost switched to Nikon a few times, but the investment was too large and confident Sony would bring one or two D4 or 1D competitors.
I understand that the success of the RX1 and the Nexmodels pushed the tempo for the A7 and RX10, but boy, please Sony give me a replacement for my A850. I want a fast (>8fps) professional system for my A-mountglass! I even paid big bugs for the Minolta 200mm f\4 macro!! I’m a proud owner (and user).
I’d rather buy a new professional body than to sell all my stuff. Please let me stay! I want that sooooo much! Don’t want to give up my Minoltaglass. Please Sony, please! Hear me (and others!)!
That semi-pro camera they are making might end up being that replacement. Maybe the A77 successor will be a FF, same like they switched the NEXes.
Vlad–
It really is difficult to discuss anything with you, for 2 reasons: 1) you don’t seem to be a good listener/reader, and 2) you are too beholden to your existing conclusions and biases.
Zohee35–
SLT is a “system-level” technology. Is it your belief that the LV and AF implementations were not designed around the pellicle mirror, i.e. that the mirror could have been substituted for the mirror and mirror box without any further changes?
Like Vlad, you are erecting strawmen. As far as I remember, I didn’t compare SLT to mirror+box as far as reliability was concerned. My suggestion was that a system employing a pellicle mirror is less reliable than a mirrorless system, a suggestion that I still find reasonable for a number of reasons, not least of which is anecdotal evidence: I personally know of 2 pellicle mirrors that have failed in service, yet I haven’t personally heard any stories of, say, NEX sensor failure. I don’t care how “easy and cheap” it is to fix or replace a pellicle mirror–I would rather not have one in need of fixing or replacement, at all.
Regarding my comment that the A580 sensor was inferior, I did not mean relative to the competition, I meant relative to other offerings even from Sony. It was not FF, and was inferior thereto, a fact that was reflected in the a580 pricing.
And may I ask, what “facts” did I “invent”? Half-stop SLT loss? Discontinuance of SLT? A7/r release before FF native A-mount A99 successor? The significantly higher pricing of Sony lens offerings relative to those from, for instance, Sigma and Tamron, not to mention comparable offerings from, say, Canon?
You are correct in one respect, that I have limited SLT experience. I do have some, including time on an A99. I must say that I enjoy my time with the A99, but it was also that time that convinced me not to buy it myself. Half-stop loss? Don’t like it, it affected me negatively. It was a mixed bag in other departments as well, for instance the screen–yes, it pivots, unlike FF offerings from other brands, but the pivot mechanism itself does nothing to inspire confidence. Would I use it? Yes. Would I buy it myself? Not at that price. Would I buy something that was more robust, without a pellicle mirror, possibly for even more money? Yes. Limited experience, but sufficient to decide against the A99.
Like I said, I still hold out hope for that mirrorless native A-mount FF that gets the basics right.
My question to you is what do you think is meant by “semi-pro”? What other offerings from Sony have been characterized in this way? A77? FWIW, I would consider my 850 body to have been “pro”-level in its day.
Not an everyman, when you can’t make an argument, just go for the personal attacks, right? 🙂
Rolleiflex, I just read your comment with the 5 points.
I retract my earlier comment, that I have expressed myself inadequately…it is in fact you who have terrible reading comprehension.
Please re-read what I considered to be “objective facts”.
Let me counter your point. All of your “objective” argument sound more like a gear head than a photographer to me.
Your major issue: The SLT tech. We all know it’s going to be a temporary solution. But will it just stop working after Sony finally goes mirrorless with A-mount? Definitely not. People are still shooting with the A900/A850. I don’t know what your definition of a “real” photographer would be, but you don’t need to assume that your “old” camera would stop working when the new tech comes out. And who said that Sony would stop servicing these A99s. Non-sense again. As an attorney, your argument is extremely flaw.
Lens: Heck, clearly people that whine about the lens selection is not really into this stuff for photography. You buy into a system when said system has what you need as a whole. You don’t buy it because of the brand, because of one minute advantage… All I need is already offered by Sony. If I’m into tilt shift lenses, why would I invest in a Sony system? Non-sense again.
Processing engine: yes, you all need the latest 15fps…. Again, if the current processing engine is not up to your task, why are you still here? Pick the one that is suitable for you. For me, I know what I need for my work, I pick the platform that is most suitable. As a landscape photographer and my type of shooting, Sony with EVF and full time LV is the best system out there.
+1 I do share the opinion that it’s the best system for landscape.
Rolleiflex, please see my latest response to Vlad above.
I in fact still own an 850 body, although I don’t use it because live view is critical to me, and given other offerings from Canon, there is no particular reason not to have it.
As far as lenses go, I was criticizing Sony for their current lens offerings, not the system offerings. The criticism was of Sony and how they run their business, which reflects on the bodies they produce, and how they price and service them. I never “whined about lens selection”, as you suggest. A business that doesn’t pick its spots well ends up delivering inferior value relative to those who do. Sony could probably just end its lens production, and “the system” would probably be better for it, because they might be able to commit those resources to producing better-value bodies.
And I thought I had made it abundantly clear why I’m still here, because I have lots of old A-mount glass that I would enjoy being able to use on a body that I want.
A gearhead I am not. In addition to shooting with my FF stuff, I still frequently shoot an old Canon A95!!!!! Bring on the flame, I can feel the heat building. But I use tools that are appropriate to the task, not because they have a suite of technology that I find appealing.
Last time I check, shooting with an old camera doesn’t qualify anyone as a photographer. Nor having a bunch of old A-mount lenses would make your argument more valid. Would all of the advances in technology suddenly stop your A850 from taking pictures? No. So if you don’t want to sell your A-mount lenses, keep shooting with them on the A850. Yes, shooting pictures would define one as a photographer, not chasing after the latest greatest, or because of having a bunch of lenses.
You bought the A850 knowing that it wouldn’t have Liveview and now you complain? The A99 has even better Liveview than anything from Canikon and you complain it wouldn’t suit your need? Clearly, you don’t know what you need. Is there a perfect camera out there for you? If there is, buy it. If there is not, then now you know there is no such thing as a perfect camera. You learn the pros and cons, and see what you need more than the others.
Asking Sony to stop producing lenses would help your argument how? Would that guarantee the survival of Sony as an imaging company? I highly doubt that. Again, if you think Sony doesn’t offer the lens you want, you clearly get into the wrong system. I’m not trying to defend Sony, but you would make your life better as a photographer by switching rather than waiting forever.
I was contemplating Nikon and Canon when A99 was announced. Both 5DIII and D800E seemed to offer better value than the A99, but in the end, the only thing I “really” need is to get consistent, accurate focus on my Contax. And that’s why I got the A99 and paid dearly for the custom mounts (non-Leitax). I know I’m among the very few A99 shooters, but I know my need and I’m still happy with my choice. There are so much grieves with Canikon shooters on the screen replacement for manual focus. But obviously, to some, Sony would not be worth the switch. Again, they know their needs.
@rolleiflex That part about Contax really piqued my interest. How is the experience on the A99? And how easy was the conversion?
Vlad, that’s not a personal attack, it merely attempts to describe your style of argumentation.
You did, however, rub me the wrong way in your initial response to DirkB, marginalizing his concerns as “trivial” and incorrectly regarding his recitation of certain objective facts as “subjective”.
I understand that you have since limited that comment, and to the extent that such limiting makes any of my points irrelevant or meaningless, you have my apologies.
However, there are things to be displeased about WRT Sony and its A-mount offerings. Hence the relative paucity of A99 sales. For me, there are enough things of sufficient importance that they justified my having jumped ship, if only temporarily; also it has been long enough that if it is much longer, I will stop thinking about Sony at all.
Not an everyman, I don’t consider myself that horrible, but I agree, I could’ve formulated better my initial comment. Anyway, let’s end this here, before the comment system falls apart again 🙂
Can’t comment using my WP account anymore? Had to use my G+.
I am working to solve this. We had a major issue with WP comment system today. So this was a last minute decision to install Disquis to get rid of many problems in one.
Rolleiflex, wow.
There are 2 options: 1) you guys have terrible reading comprehension, or 2) I haven’t been expressing myself at all well.
I will be magnanimous and assume the latter.
I did not try to qualify myself as a photographer by admitting to occasionally using an A95; I used it as an example to show that I am not a gearhead, as was suggested.
If I may correct you, the 850 does not take pictures, the photographer takes pictures. Would an advance in technology cause me to suddenly stop taking pictures with the 850? Yes: live view. Not only would it, it DID.
Also, I did not buy the 850 complaining that it did not have live view, as you suggest. I do, however, now justifiably regard it as inferior for my needs, compared to other systems that do have live view. Which brings me to another point: I most certainly know what I need.
Regarding the lens offerings and jumping ship: I thought I had made it abundantly clear that I’m currently shooting Canon for FF.
My life is good, Rolleiflex–I’m not beholden to Sony. I would only like to see a new mirrorless FF native A-mount offering to replace my 850 for use with my A-mount glass. I most certainly do not NEED such an offering, but I would sure like to see it, because I would most likely buy it. Unfortunately for me, Sony decided to release the A7/r first.
Vlad–OK, I’m good with that. I suspect that you and I are more alike, than not! One thing we can agree on, that we hope that Sony imaging will thrive while providing us each with what we need.
wow, all comments on the older articles are gone due to the new commenting system :O
@SAR_Admin:disqus
Will you fix that? Don’t wanna stress you though, I know you’re doing this in your free time.
What about the news of olympus will make lenses for Sony? any details?
I would like to see more full-frame, prosumer level lenses with SSM. I only have an A77 but given how fast full frame cameras are coming down in price, a full frame camera is in my future at some point. I have older Minolta/KM full frame lenses. The 16-50 DT SSM is a great lens but I’m reluctant to invest in it since it’s not full frame. The Zeiss lenses are great but too expensive for me even on the used market.
Some suggestions for prosumer lenses:
24-70 f/4
24-105 f/4
70-200 f/4
85mm f/1.8
10-20mm updated
Canon’s 70-200 (withous IS, as is the Sony’s) is $1200.
What’s up with the Sony’s $3000 price for the new 70-200?? It’s 2,5 times more expensive
cant wait for new emount rumor.. goodbye NEX, hello A3 A5 maybe?
A mount will continue makes sense as the a7 and a7r have little to offer a mount users.
CMOS on the other hand is near the end of its usefull lifetime because it is old technology.
I suspect this is the reason sony is not making major changes ( such as really high resolution ) to CMOS sensors.
I anxiosly await the next sensor technology.o
If Sony is content to regurgitate the old minolta lens design for the 70-200 and other lenses, why would continuing with CMOS be any different?
They have no choice.
The compeditors are ALL working on organic sensors.
You may have noticed that for the 36mp sensor they simple altered the manufactering temperatur slightly therfore reducing the viewing distance and call it
” Completely redesighned optimised for the shorter flange distancd of the new ff e mount”
MUCH HYPE little substance.
Sony is a tech company first and formost. they are also one of the biggest sensor manufacturers. It only makes sense that they are pushing sensor tech, as well as every other area of the camera functions.
Sony lens are ok, definitely poor for the price. But again Sony is a tech company, its always been they’re strategy to leave lens (for the most part) to 3rd party manufacturers.
The new A7/r and RX1 and RX100 are all prime examples of this, new engineering with Zeiss glass (or in the A7 case, Zeiss being the only usable glass)
May I ask which system you are shooting right now? Talking about poor Sony lens value without substantiating any data is quite easy. I admit Sony is delusional with the pricing of the 70-200II, 300II, and 500 (or even that 70-400II). But it seems to be the trend nowadays. Nikon is asking 1700 for that ridiculous 58/1.4 (soft WO). It seems like Canon is still sane but we’ll see.
Barry, other competitors are working on the organic sensors, but until I see one, I wouldn’t be worried too much. Heck, it’s easier to talk the big talk than to have anything substantial. And you only want the high MP camera, so these two A7/r would not do it for you. Just wait for the next announcement (not like Canikon has any higher MP at the moment). I wouldn’t discount Sony ability in producing good sensor. They’re the best right now (clearly put Canon to shame while all others have to buy Sony’s). The here and now, Sony is a step ahead of the competitors in these segments, mirrorless and sensor tech.
” until i see one i would not be worried much”
Sony cannot afford to think like you.
If sony were to wait to see thier competitors new tech sensor they would be several years behind in development and totally destroyed as a viable camera manufacturer.
High res is the future. The reason all these new higher quality lenses are coming out every day is to be ready for the new higher resolution cameras that are coming…..rather than listen to ill informed skeptics who keep crying ” DONT MAKE A BETTER CAMERA BECAUSE THE LENSES ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH.” Sony will not put a lot of money into developing new highres cmos because cmos is outdated technology.
Remember what i am saying now and tell me in 2015 if i was rite or wrong.
You are absolutely rite that these two new cameras are not for me.
Yes they appear to be good cameras for many people but not well suited for macro and long telephoto work which is most of what i do.
I think Sony and Canon have organic sensors at the same of development. It’s just there is more rumors of Canon testing them.
Other manufacturets are also working on it.
It is unlikely that we will see a new tech sensor or high res sensor from sony in 2014 but it seems likely we will see both in 2015.
This is speculation on my part based on putting together rumors I have read.
Chris
I dont think you are rite about sonys new lenses being the same as the old ones.
I believe all the new lenses coming out will have higher contrast at higher resolution than the old ones.
This will probably result in little or no visible difference on todays cameras and with todays standardized rating methods.
When new much higher resolution sensors come out in a couple of years the differences will be VERY apparent and sony will be ready for the new hogher res cameras with sharper higher contrast lenses.
In 2 years tell me if i was correct.
Barry,
I want to be wrong about the “new” 70-200, but nothing in Sony’s specifications, features or marketing tells me otherwise. Trust me, I want you to be correct and that this lens will be an upgrade to the old version (I’ve been waiting on getting a 70-200 in a-mount). But…
Here are the specs for the old 70-200:
Minimum Focus Distance : 4′ (1.2m)
Magnification : x 0.21
Lens Groups-Elements : 16 groups, 19 elements
Filter Diameter : 77 mm
Lens Weight : 2 lbs 15 oz (1300g)
Aperture (Max.) : f/2.8
Aperture (Min.) : f/32
Focus-hold Button : Yes
SSM Focusing : Built-in
Aspheric Elements : no aspheric
Aperture Blade : 9 blades (Circular aperture)
Here are the specs for the “new” 70-200:
Minimum Focus Distance : 4′ (1.2m)
Magnification : x 0.21
Lens Groups-Elements : 16 groups, 19 elements
Filter Diameter : 77 mm
Lens Weight : 2 lbs 15 oz (1300g)
Aperture (Max.) : f/2.8
Aperture (Min.) : f/32
Focus-hold Button : Yes
SSM Focusing : Built-in
Aspheric Elements : no aspheric
Aperture Blade : 9 blades (Circular aperture)
The internal and performance specs are identical. Physically, the lens is identical. The dimensions & weight are identical. I can only reasonably conclude that coating(s) may have been changed on one or more elements. Maybe the Super Sonic Motor has been upgraded (pure conjecture on my part). For this, Sony is asking for a 50% premium over the previous incarnation, which was already priced high for an old optical formula without Internal Stabilization. I am not one to complain about Sony’s premium pricing. In fact, I would be fine with the 50% price increase IF the lens had actually been upgraded to be close to the benchmark set by Canon with their Version II of the 70-200 2.8 IS . Canon upgraded their lens 10 years after it’s release with 23 elements in 19 groups (1 Fluorite and 5 UD elements) and a truly excellent Internal Stabilization system. Canon upped the price to $2500 – but it is a worthwhile upgrade. At least when Sony gave the 70-400 a makeover they increased the price by 10% (and marginally improved the minimum focusing distance).
Barry, how would you feel if next year the a77 successor is released with a “new’ 24mp APS-C CMOS sensor and is priced at 50% more than the a77?
Chris
I spoke to a sony rep so this is official.
The new 70_200 f4 has a new ssm motor that they claim is much faster than the old one.
That is the only difference in the new lens. Opically they are identical.
As far as the how would i feel part of you questio….
About the same as i do now about the a7 and a7r
Given the relatively minor update (newer S S Motor), do you feel a 50% higher price is justified? It is now the highest priced 70-200mm 2.8 SLR lens available. By MSRP it is 20% higher than the next highest priced lens (Canon’s), although by street price it is nearly 40% higher (the canon can be had for $2200).
—–
Sorry the a7r isn’ for you. Maybe since they are so small you can stack two of them for around 60mp (accounting for stitching overlap).
Only if the faster focus is REALLY REALLY IMPORTANT to you
As for me absolutely nothing about these cameras are suitable for me.
Cannot use a mount lenses effectively
No IBIS
No sensor shift so not usefull for non af lenses.
Short viewing distance so only suited for wide angle to possibly normal lenses.
Not good for macro or long lenses.
Lower resolution than a77 so insufficient dof for macro or tlephoto work.
The new e mount lenses are uselss for what i do.
While these seem like nice cameras for some people and they will probably sell well sony has not produced a single new product that I can use in quite a while.( except for a few very expensive long a mount lense but they do not have close focusing so I cant use them either)
Hopefully the situation will improve in 2014-2015
I will wait for something I can use….sony is making nothing for me yet.
Insofar as focusing speed and accuracy, Lens speed isn’t the problem, the slt camera AF system is.
still hoping on a FF with >8 fps. I’ll buy it immidiately!
When they say mid/high end, are we talking an a77 replacement or a 6d/d600 alike? If it’s the latter, shut up and take my money! The a7 is fine, but without ibis (or stabilised primes) it’s not for me.
still waiting to replace my shutter lagging alpha 77 brought a QX100 last month to take the load off my Alpha 77, but the alpha 77 is still good for video and Astronomy photos just not fast sport. Waste about 500 photos (out of focus) out of 1500 each ice hockey game because it cannot keep up. I am waiting for the replacement line for the alpha 77 hoping that all the batteries and grips still fit on the new one. Would be nice to have a camera that does not need to click as well, I take ~ 200,000 photos+ a year(facebook my cloud storage partner). Just noticed the Nokia 1020 phone has a mechanical shutter how many shots will that capture before it breaks. I use my galaxy S4 as a camera a lot. I would be gutted if the camera broke before the network contract expired.
I am glad to hear A mount is not dead . Looking forwards to hear their new produce.
It sounds like, based on this rumor, that the a77 will be updated next year. It makes sense since it is their oldest camera body (@ 2 years old). Although there is a chance that it could refer to a full frame a88 (850 successor) since that fills the full frame prosumer space and there is a large gap in the lineup between a77 and a99.
Unfortunately it also sounds like there will be no a99 successor next year. Given that the a99 is only a year old, it does make sense that t would be replaced in 2015…hopefully not in Oct of 2015 though.
I’ll be hitting up team Nikon in 2014!
Awesome!
Firmware update..good luck waiting for that one!
“a new mid to high-end Alpha mount camera body is currently under development. Due to be released in 2014”
I thought all ILC are named ALPHA only from now on, so the question is:
“Will there be another A mount soon?”
The a in a-mount stands for alpha mount. Even if the model name is aXY or alpha NEX – these are e-mount cameras not alpha or a-mount. Sony likes to keep you thinking when they name their products.
Will E-mount be the only path to using both Legacy glass and Alpha mount??? Will the next A-mount provide the rumored hybrid mount that will accept both A-mount and provide use an adapter for legacy lenses? I do not own any E-mount glass and doubt that I ever will. I already own every A-mount lens that I could possibly need. I’m committed!
I disturbs me that I must buy an adapter “with a mirror” to use my Alpha glass. So far I don’t see any real advantage to buying a Full Frame E-mount for use on a A7/R over using the lenses I already own with an adapter, other than total elimination of any mirror and possible built in stabilization. I think I could live with these small compromises and buy an A7R with the LAEA4 adapter. Fast focus is important to me as I photograph hummingbirds on the wing. My current A900 needs a lot of “luck” to archive critical focus.
Does the near future hold any promise over the current compromises?
Dave
These cameras are not the best choice for A mount lens users.
They are more geared towards winning over canon/nikon users.
Wait and see what sony comes out with next…there may be better choices ahead.
@ animalsbybarry, I’m sure that’s good advice. The rumors of IBIS, Z-axis focus, on-sensor phase detect all have a lot of appeal. I trust Andrea will let us know soon what’s ahead. I worry that good support for A-mount lenses and legacy lenses are mutually exclusive. I wonder if the 2014 A-mount camera will include the “Hybrid mount” that will give us a path to also use legacy and even E-mount glass.
Let’s hope Andree has some very good news for us soon.
What you say makes good sense. First an inexpensive camera directed at winning Nikon and Canon users to the Sony camp. Next an even better camera for we loyal A-mount customers.
I doubt the a-mount will have a hybrid mount. Why? No one who shoots a-mount is going to want to use the inferior e-mount glass. If any system would greatly benefit from hybrid mount it would be the e-mount.
Or they could just get their stuff together and stick to one mount. E-mount sucks. Who wants f4 zooms at that price? It means half the time (clubs, night, smokey jazz bars) you can’t actually use the camera unless you like grainy fuzziness
YAY!!! 😀
oh oh oh wait! the emounts are coming with pop-up flash! THAT WILL SAVE THE DAY.
… and here I was believing the rumors of an alpha body with no mirror and olympus stabilization… right… instead lets just start a whole new lens line up???
wow…