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Yesterday I got a total of three messages from SAR readers that are in contacts with Sony representatives. In short, what they all told me is that Sony is no more hiding the NEX-FF announcement in October. Sony people are now free to talk about the fact that the NEX-FF is coming. Here are the three messages I got yesterday:
Message 1:
Apparently they are not even hiding the fact that’s new FF cameras are coming (NEX FF included). My source told me that apparently more details will be shared next week. He usually don’t share this kind of informations, but here it was so obvious that he couldn’t even hide it 🙂
Message 2:
I work in the bicycle industry and sony has a huge booth at the yearly trade show next to go pro. Sony representatives told me that I was going to get an action cam to demo soon and that I was going to be blown away by the new full frame mirror less that is on the way. He said that the FF mount will be announced but he thinks the ff a mount will make a mark.
Message 3 (translated by me):
Sony representative told me two FF E-mount cameras are coming. One like the NEX-7 and one like the RX1.
In short dear SAR readers…keep your eyes open! If you find something interesting to share to the SAR community drop me a message! Thanks!
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Message to sources: You can send me more info anonymously by using the contact form you see on the very right of your browser. You can also contact me directly at sonyalpharumors@gmail.com.
For readers: Subscribe the RSS feed (Click here) and Twitter (Click here) stream and the Facebook fan page (Click here) in order to not miss any news!
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Reminder (SR = Sonyrumor):
SR1=probably fake rumor
SR2=rumor from unknown sources
SR3=50% chance it is correct
SR4=rumor from known sources
SR5=almost certainly correct!
186 Responses
First to comment!!!
And first to order the next FF when it will be available
I already am the first in line sorry 🙂
Admin .Have their been any rumors regarding a medium format SLT ? .Without the complex expencive glass prism it would be possible to make one the size or a regular DSLR and with a partnership with Hassy and a Z shift 5 Axsis stability PD why hold back.?
Better make it mirrorless, easier to adapt lenses. Also behaves more like view camera.
A Hasselblad involvement would be bad news. The last thing we want is another Sony camera with Hasselblad’s name on it. Not just because they look desperate, but also because the prices will be ridiculously high.
In the electronic age, Sony is a far more capable company than Hasselblad has ever been. Sony makes their own lenses for one thing… something Hasselblad had to rely on Zeiss and Fuji for in the past. In terms of the general camera innovation part, Sony has done far more than Hasselblad.
I put my name on the waiting list at my local camera store back in August when I first heard about the rumors here on SAR! The sales guy said at the time that he know nothing about a nex-ff but he put me on the list if I put down a deposit. So I am first on the list! Well I sold my nex7 and 3 lenses last week for a decent price still. I am keeping the zeiss 24mm for now just in case I could us it on the FF.
You can most definetely use aps-c lenses on a ff camera but image will be cropped to aps-c or you won’t see a full coverage of the ff frame.
The 24 1.8 is the last lens I would keep just to use in the crop mode of a ff nex. The leaked Sony Zeiss FE 35mm f/2.8 ZA is will be better in every imaginable way.
I came from the CanXX world and actually I still have a dslr that starts with a single digit 6 😉 In that world I could use a FF lens on a crop sensor body but you cant use a ef-s lens on a FF body. So I am not clear what “using the aps-c lens in crop mode on a nex-ff” really means.
It happened to be so with canon ef-s lenses, but other manufacturers allow mounting crop lenses on FF bodies, and even sigma’s and tamron’s crop lenses can be mounted to canon ff bodies.
There are two issues when putting aps-c lenses on a ff camera: 1. Mechanical compatibility and 2. coverage.
The first is only an issue for Canon’s own EF-S lenses as they have a baffle that sticks out from the back which can cause the large mirror of a ff camera to hit it. If using any non-canon aps-c lens on a canon body this is not a problem.
The second is the most basic issue. Aps-c lenses typically create an image circle that is too small to cover ff. In digital, Nikon and Sony crop the image circle of aps-c lenses on ff cameras to the aps-c size. This can be turned off through the menus to get the whole frame which would typically show heavy vignetting.
A new full frame A-Mount is excellent news. Is it a A99 replacement? Is it a 36mp model with the same sensor as Nikon’s d800.
I’ve never heard of anyone ordering a camera without knowing the specs first.
This kind of fanboyism is what drives Sony to create wizbang gadgets instead of distinctive tools.
I want to know flash sync, max shutter speed, resolution, color depth, etc… I want to know it has third party accessory support.
Otherwise we’ll get plastic lens mounts, lower LCD resolution, and a camera with no hope of a reliable intelligent flash system.
I ordered based on what I know about the performance of the rx1. I have been planning to upgrade to the rx1 but didn’t because I don’t want fixed lens. If the new cam performs anything like the rx1, I would have no regret. Plus the deposit is refundable anyway so I have nothing to loose.
I’m mostly interested in The Second Model.
?
Sorry–meant for the previous post.
The RX1 shaped NEX FF rumor is consistent with the David Kilpatrick report.
yep. Could be a more compact model without the built-in EVF of the NEX-7
In which case it would be the cheaper FF E camera.
Not necessarily. The EVF will cost a bundle, so will the thumb grip and other nick nacks- just like the RX1.
Given the fact that one can not use a flash while the EVF is in use and no tilt LCD, I wonder why they would bother making such a half baked contraption.
Why not? There are loads of people using 5s (n, t or whatever), 3 (on any flavour) without EVFs. It gives the opportunity of using a system with a less expensive body than with the fully featured body.
I would be fine with articulated viewfinder and a fixed back screen.
I would rather use the word CASTRATION 😉 instead of contraception
contraption is not the same as contraception, unless you want to tell the potentially mother to be that she can avoid growing a ‘contraption’ in her.
This definitely does not have anything to do with contraception.
Sorry guys, when hot-tempered i’m often misreading 😀
Even if it was written contraption i read contraception which was closed to my point of view of castration about the cheap nex ff rumour at the moment :p
EVFs are not needed for anything. Never use them. If you need to look thru a small hole, don’t assume everybody wants to.
Half-baked? One-quarter baked – and for nearly 4000 EUR. Either they have no clue, or they are hunting for suckers.
EVF is a must
Tobias, are you being a troll or are you trying to sound funny?
If you are serious, then you clearly barely take any photos, if you did, you would know that on a bright day, you can’t see anything on the external LCD screen.
Stan: you get a shade for the articulated LCD panel and use it the way videographers use a monitor.
That sounds crazy to not have built-in viewfinder on a maybe 2000-2500 euro camera.
I know that RX1 is called professional camera but does professional photographers only use LCD for shooting pics nowadays???
I can understand to use LCD on a camcorder but viewfinder is still mandatory to me.
Under sunlight, LCD display is not enough efficient to see if the picture is blurry or not and i dont want to count on camera skills to make the image perfect ;).
Moreover LCD display is maybe great for making panorama or on compact camera but i ll never agree that an expensive camera ( even if the high end camera cost further more than 2000 euro, the average price of a camera is below 2000 euro) could not have viewfinder as an option.
If pro SAR readers can convince me of worthlessness of a viewfinder i m waiting for your arguments :p.
Meanwhile no viewfinder on cheap Nex FF will be the BIGGEST mistake of sony for me
you may read could have viewfinder as an option :p
and thx Andrea for the suspense since a few months and apologies for my passionate comments 😉
Thx for your explanation Hendrick the Wise 😀
I guess i will have play smart.
To wait and see quietly till spring 2014 before making my choice and spare enough.
Ciao
I am a professional and I used LCD and EVF.
LCD when I want to look amateurish.
EVF in low light to stabilize.
Everyone has their needs and wants.
Viewfinder doesnt necessarily meant pro.
..and how do you manage to use a flash with the EVF or your “pro” work does not need a flash?
It is people like you that is suppressing Sony developing any meaningful system and still remaining a P&S company.
My pro work doesnt need flash.
Because flash is the hallmark of professionalism.
Just like the guy who said that 35mm is the hallmark of boring photographs.
My point of view was that if Pro needs EVF, i wonder why they made RX1 a pro camera alike without it.
I m using more and more EVF because i sometimes ruined pictures in sunlight and low light conditions because of blur or light problems ( too dark or too bright pics) i did not notice well on LCD display.
Moreover you said you are using both so would you buy one camera with you could do mainly amateurish and have hard time for making great pics ?
If someone (pro or non pro) needs something, and camera company doesnt offer it, that someone doesnt buy whats on offer, right?
So, I got along with a NEX 7 and 5n, one E mount lens and three M mount lenses. Worked for magazines like that even though many people said NEX is not a professional tool.
Sh1t, I even shot two weddings with them.
I used to have two 5D2s but I never looked back at SLRs quite simply because I don’t like them.
I use an RX1, RX100 and 5n with the 50mm. I love that combo and not really tempted by the FF NEX but I do understand if the FF NEXs come in 7ish and 5N/T-ish flavours.
I feel sorry for the familes that let a NEX user who does not use flash (and that too used Leica mount lenses) to shoot their weddings.
Is there more than one person posting as hendrick other than the guy who changed his name. To the imposter, I thought you were a street photographer so could understand “pro” shots without flash during the day.
I changed my name because of the wank3r who has an unhealthy attraction to using the same name here and appears to wish his opinions would blend with mine.
Slingers: Steet photography? LOL. That is pure amateur stuff. That is done with my iPhone (even that comes with a built in flash). LOL.
Have you seen a wedding photog that will not use flash (and get paid)?
Douglas gets paid!
http://www.douglasfry.com/wedding-photographer.php
I knew it! You are a ringer who actually use Canon gear trying to promote Sony P&S cams.
I bet Hendrick is just trolling around, but I’ll bite:
Jeff Ascough shoots paid weddings without flash as well.
http://photo.net/learn/wedding/wedding-photography-tips-with-jeff-ascough/
why couldn’t you use flash with an EVF? Of course not with an external EVF which goes into the hotshoe, but there is no problem using it with a built in EVF.
Miika, Correct! the whole discussion is all about that! Built in EVF + hotshoe allows for flash.
Neo, Any Sony shooters that you know who does it without flash? Links please!
Because the camera brand matters?
Obviously one couldnt do with an Olympus what you can do with a Nikon that couldnt do what a Canon does without having that Metz flash?
Idiot
Hendrick the imposter:
Photos speak for themselves and speak to the ability and skill of a photographer far more than a gear list. I sometimes get potential wedding clients ask me about equipment – but that is because they do not know any better.
Hendrick the elder:
Photographing a wedding on dual NEXs and using natural light only sounds a bit challenging, but as I said photos speak for themselves. If you want to quiet critics who are trolling you based on speculation, show off your nex wedding photos and let them argue for you.
Christopher: While I agree that it is all about the photog, it also includes his/ her choice of gear. Certain things can not be done with a box Brownie.
Please no name calling. My name is Hendrick. 🙂
Christopher,
I don’t comment on SAR to argue for Sony equipment or show my photography. I comment here because since I’ve been a reader in SAR I saw there were so many misleading posts with dubious information, or sometimes instigating dismissal of camera gear by the mere token of a brand association.
I use Sony today because I like what I get from these cameras and how I get it. To me, no one else would fit the bill although Fuji is close (largely because the X Pro 1 has the same form factor as my old Contax G2)
When I see comments like annoyinghendrick’s (thinking of renaming him to Flash Hendrick) that are plainly misleading (read below about Nikon D7100 using a Sony sensor and his comparison of ergonomics) I feel its best to ensure facts are said straight. When I say I like something, it’s clear that it is a subjective statement. Others make their personal statements sound like facts (remember the sales figures, market share, prfoessional needs, etc) and this is where I believe many SAR readers will be ill informed.
If let uncorrected, many SAR readers would believe that A mount is dead because so many commenters (when they see the lack of A mount rumors) write that the mount will die. What do they know what Sony has planned?
In the end, I also can’t show any work because that would out me and I can’t afford that.
“Hendrick the imposter” I like it! 🙂
Please note that Hendrick the elder stated that one of his cameras is an RX1 and not just dual nex to shoot weddings. That camera is as capable as any camera at 35mm. I have been thinking a lot about how much I shoot at 35mm and am considering getting an RX1 myself since I could still use my radiotriggers with it. I do not think that a FF camera is needed for every picture taken at a wedding and remain professional looking. Lately I will shoot an a99 for the formal shots, especially the portraits, but I use an EM5 and the 20mm Panny or 45mm prime from Oly often in the reception. Or I could use my Nex 7 too. I think not using flash, especially during the dancing, adds a lot of character to the pictures. I like using as much natural light as possible and then use off camera fill flash (as little as possible). When outdoors I shoot so much in the shade that using an LCD only to compose the shot would not be a problem. But I prefer an EVF overall.
Well said! 🙂
[BTW, contraption (earlier post- look up the meaning) and I did not say contraception.]
I also don’t understand why there is such a bunch of cameras – at all levels – without an OVF/EVF!
For people like me wearing varifocals glasses it’s not possible to use the LCD as an eyefinder! Holding an eyefinderless camera in shooting position our eyes cannot focus to the LCD because for distances around 30cm we have to look through the lowest part of our glasses not the central part…
Using an OVF/EVF I can adjust the eyefinder so that I can either look through the central part of my glasses or without my glasses.
What I miss with current OVF/EVF implementations is a non mechanical implementation of that adjustment so that the camera can store different settings – at the moment it’s quite annoying to switch camera bodies between my girl friend and me just because of the eyefinder settings…
Price difference helps the sales of a camera system.
Fuji does it.
Panasonic does it.
Olympus does it.
Sony does it.
How many people could not afford a NEX 7 and instead went for a 5n at the time?
A part from price, some people prioritize size. Nex5 are cheaper and they are the smallest cameras in their segment.
>>>For people like me wearing varifocals glasses it’s not possible to use the LCD as an eyefinder! Holding an eyefinderless camera in shooting position our eyes cannot focus to the LCD because for distances around 30cm we have to look through the lowest part of our glasses not the central part…
This is why you see many P&S users using their iPads to make photos on bushwalks. They can actuall see something on the large iPad screen.
Officials from Sony have already explained the decision not to include a built-in EVF in RX1: There are still people who prefer OVF and that does not fit into Sony’s vision and the future of EVF. So, basically, they decided to make the viewfinder optional via the hotshoe to accomodate both, OVF and EVF fans, keep the price down for the body a little and make some more money at the same time selling the valuable accessory.
Remember NEX-5 + 16/.28 + FDA-SV1 (the optical view finder usable only on acertain NEx cams for the 16mm lens only)?
How brilliant was that? LOL!
Message 3 seems to support DK’s ‘RX1 NEX’ rumour.
Admin you are a drug-dealer: GAS is your stuff…
Hope we will get all infos soon, so I can concentrate on other things. 🙂
Addicted? 🙂
YES! Amount FF!!!!! make me happy!
yep, finally some light on A-mount rumors…
+1
+1
Interesting. The strategic pre-release leaking of “confidential” information is more and more common and becoming the new marketing standard in, at least, the camera industry.
+1 … because it works 🙂
It’s called predatory preannouncement. Only works for weak players in the market, who otherwise might lose their customers to freshly released products of their competition. Also used by weak and me-too players whose products are late to the market.
Market leaders don’t do it normally. They prefer to sell their current model until the warehouses are full of the new model and then switch quickly.
Not necessarily true. Market leaders also pre-announce. Some even lay down their entire plans for the next 3 years and the products that will come. Example, Intel.
Pre-announcing is not just a strategy of weak players. Anybody can use it if they know what they want to establish. The strong brand may pre-announce even years ahead so that the market will see how they plan to service the market. A follower can dream on as best as they can in the full knowledge of what the leader will do, but if they cannot match it or cannot leap frog the tech or manufacturing or any value chain advantage, they can only watch.
If a product is weak, it does not matter where it comes from (coming from a weak player or leader), no amount of pre-announcing is going to sway the market. Example, Blackberry’s own smartphone offerings (a follower not a leader to Android and Apple). Or Canon’s half-baked mirrorless (an example of a leader, but without the tech for a good AF, it fails).
Pre-announcement works best when you know your competitor cannot touch you for the next year or more. That means, they have no product or do not have the means to compete with you. This leaves them (whether they are leaders or not) to just keep quiet. Even announcements from them will fall short because it will pale in comparison to what the competitor can offer.
Within the context of what Sony is doing, will Canon or Nikon be able to respond in 6 months? I doubt it. Even if they have all the money, or resources, you just can’t turn around on a dime if you haven’t done the R&D years back. Even if you have this tech and ability, you just don’t turn your supply chain, or do this without a BIG strategic turn or change of plans that is not in the books. For Canon or Nikon to go the same route, it will now be their problem to solve the lens issues, the R&D needed to make existing lenses work properly, etc. This is why people who have been bashing Sony for many years of not having enough lenses, don’t really understand that lens is another MAJOR expense and needs careful planning because lenses require it’s own support, it’s own manufacturing plants, and it’s own raw material, own warehouse to keep inventories, and distribution, marketing, etc. In short, lenses are really a separate business involving hundred of millions of dollars, maybe even a billion if one is to do it by themselves.
Agreed.
Preannouncements are used for industrial and commercial equipment, where customers need to do planning for years ahead. Boeing and Airbus need to let their customers plan for years ahead.
For consumer items the situation is often different. You do not want the customers to postpone their purchases and start waiting for the new model.
boring… a complete useless post!
Please, Sir, piss off.
+1
lol dream on …
One like the RX1?
That would be interesting. Especially if it works properly with ZM lenses 🙂
Crossing fingers for that.
I wouldn’t mind so much the colour cast, but the smudging must be solved.
I would not hold my breath. How many M lenses have a large flattened rear element? In some modern lenses the rear element is larger than the front one. I suspect Sony and Zeiss have learned how to make small lenses better suited to shorter register. I hope they improved the sensor too but not up to the demands of RF UWA glass.
You are quite probably right. Even if it somehow works, it would be unintentional. I just hope someone makes a proper mirrorless camera supporting these lenses, which doesn’t as much as a Leica.
Guess you haven’t heard of the Ricoh’s M module?
The M module is APS-C.
The A mount mirrorless…YES IM SO HAPPPPPPY :’)))
FF A Mount!!
I am looking forward to the A-mount mirrorless announcement. If the specs and low light performance are better than my a99 (which is already very good), I will be one happy wedding photographer!
Ren Murray
Golden Era Photography
http://www.goldeneraphoto.com
Very nice pictures Ren!
I like your work. Is it all done with a sony?
Thank you, and yes, I shoot Sony exclusively. Currently using an a99 as my main body, and an a580, a57 and still have my a700, as well as my Minolta Maxxum 7, which I plan to keep forever!
I want a NEX FF that is waterproof. Look at Nikon 1 AW 1. But with a FF sensor
Waterproof 40M Underwater Housing Case for Camera Sony NEX:
http://www.amazon.com/Waterproof-Underwater-Housing-18-55mm-LF120/dp/B009WNAO9S
So what are peoples best guesses on cost and release date? Im very keen to buy a large sensor camera for videoing the norhtern lights and fireflies and similair low light stuff.
Im keen to stay with Sony but I ve also just heard about this from Cannon:
http://petapixel.com/2013/09/13/canon-debuts-exciting-prototype-sensor-exceptional-low-light-capability/
What I’m hoping for right now is news about the new ICLE 7 and the sensor shift thing… why are there no more rumors on that? Was it just a fake rumor?
Hmm… so is the A99 successor (A-mount mirrorless) coming at the same time as NEX-FF, or will it be later on? Assuming it is a direct successor to the A99, of course.
Perhaps it will not be so much the A99 successor but something that competes more directly with the “advanced amateur” full-frames of Canon and Nikon, i.e. D600 and 6D. A little cheaper, smaller and lighter.
“action cam” I don’t think that will be a cheap camera.
So the trick is to leak information, just not too soon so the buzz doesn’t die down. I hope this also means they are delaying the announcement until the camera is actually ready to ship this time…
Yes, Sony handles this very good. And it is a lot cheaper than ads.
i might be a bit more reluctant to buy a FF NEX first as there is still a chance of one more coming next year 😮 i’ll see the offerings first when they are announced next month
Looks like two FF NEX in October, and new A-mount based FF(s) after the new year. So no point in waiting on more FF NEX next year if you want a NEX. If you are undecided between A-mount and E-mount then waiting may be in order. It is possible Sony will state the future release of A-mount without producing a lot of details to keep the A-mount is dead rumors down.
Perpsonally… I Will not believe any representative regarding evaluation of any comming model.
They are usually the last in the chain of info.
The only thing they may get… if they are lucky before the announcement (and just few days before) is the model name and category.
This is a good news . And we need more ZEISS lens ！
no, what we need is to have sigma to make just as good lenses as zeiss but for a fraction of the price..
It would be amazing if Sigma began offering their latest gems like their 34mm F1.4 or the 18-35mm F1.8 zoom lens for e mount. Since Sony introduced the A series e mount cameras, I’m hoping now, lens manufacturers and Sony will release faster lenses since size would be less of a concern with a camera with such a large grip. Constant F4 zooms are fine with me as long as you’re getting excellent performance, but for those times I’d like to get super shallow depth of field for those more artistic shots, I’d love for Sony or anyone else to release F1.4 primes.
ohhhh noooo ….
PICS OR IT DIDNT HAPPEN!
****************************
BRING
US
PICTURES!
I’m more curious on a-mount innovation, as FF-NEX profile is getting clear.
Seems to explain why I’m feeling more and more like joining a Cheerleading-Site here that’s heating up the excitement until real specs only very shortly before the official announcement.
+10
If Sony gives us a new R1, perhaps a FF with a fixed Zeiss 24-120mm 2.8-4.5 zoom and EVF, I am going to sell my car and go for it. Will it ever happen?
This will never happen, as 24-120 mm f2.8-4.5 lens would be a specialty lens only appealing to small fraction of customers. Thus creating a special camera for it will not pay for itself.
The type of person who would buy such a lens would also like to have 120-300 and 14-24, so they will go to interchangeable lens model. Welcome to Nikon.
I really want to hear more rumors about A-mount cameras and lenses, then E-mount to be honest.
I would really love to see next Sony A-mount camera either a FF or crop cameras to be bigger and more massive in construction. I don’t understand why high end products like A77 and A99 are so small and light. I perfer bigger and heavier cameras in my hands.
Something like Nikon D4 or Canon 1Dx would be awesome to have.
We need Sony camera with integrated battery grip and I am sure that there are many people which would by such a camera.
+1 !!!
Same here, I need professional cameras, I need studio cameras, I need professional lens.
I wish be treated like professional by a professional company, I wish invest my money in equip from a trusted company.
And I will wish not be disturbed by a company that did not show me future perspective, if the company cannot show me a roadmap to my investments.
… if you want this from Sony, then you are looking in the wrong place….sorry, sad, but true….
Unfortunately you’re right.
Nikon don’t give you a roadmap either.
Fuji seem to be the best for roadmaps
I do not need explain that Nikon have 4 full frame, 10 APS cameras and various lens.
Nikon got 3 FF and 3 APS-C. All the other are previous generation models or variants with 1 part being swapped.
The first and last Sony attempt like that was A900/A850. Did not quite work due to poor high ISO performance of the Sony sensor in the cameras.
I would gladly buy an A900 unchanged except for a good sensor.
+1
Oh, I so very much wish there would by D4 competitor from Sony with intergrated grip and rugged body.
That’s like asking why Toyota doesn’t do 22 inch wheels on their Corollas to make them appeal to racers. 1. Adding such things wont make the original product any better and 2. If you want the real deal, it’s already out there… why not just get it and be happy?
I’d be much more exited if leafshutter lens rumor is true. This will finally mean that you can finally get quite shutter and flash sync up to 1/500-1/1000. If the lens are up to sniff such proposition will definitely be an interesting move to make PROs look at the system.
Just curious: with the all-electric E-mount is there any reason Sony *could* build lenses with built-in leaf shutters? Hasselblad had a system with both leaf and plane shutters didn’t they? That could be cool.
“but he thinks the ff a mount will make a mark.”
My fear is that rumors are coming from people without a deep photographic knowledge — Who may consider the A3000 to be “A mount” since it is dSLR-shaped and starts with an A.
Clearly, true A-mount inventory is being cleared out. Looking at the deep discounts on the A77 for example — such discounts and inventory clearance is usually just before the replacement is announced, not months and months earlier.
And that makes sense — if the A77 replacement is the A7… If the A99 replacement is the A9.
My fear is that rumors about future A-mount cameras, are essentially being misinterpreted when the sources are actually referring to “A” cameras like the A3000 and A7 and A9.
Though given the very limited selection of full frame lenses for the E-mount, full frame A-mount still makes sense for at least a few more years while the E-mount FF lens lineup is built up.
I think that the new cameras will use model numbers: ILCA for a-mount/ ILCE for e-mount. The a3000 already uses this model number. Now for the numbers…
I have a random question totally unrelated to this post so I apologize for taking up space on this reply feed. But, is there a gain in image sharpness or any sort of visible benefit to having more mega pixels? Like, I have the 5n now and have tossed around the idea of getting the NEX7 successor when it comes out, mostly because I love the trinav controls and being able to crop my images without too much detail lost.
I also like the idea of being able to print larger sizes in a pixel dense 300ppi image to hang on my walls since I find an indescribable satisfaction from not only taking and editing photos, but also being able to hold and enjoy physical prints of my best images. But, if I print smaller sizes like say, a standard 8×10, would I see any benefit in sharpness or clarity, or any other factor, from a 24mp sensor over my current 16mp?? Or are the benefits mostly seen in being able to print larger and having the ability to crop your images without losing too much detail?
Thanks for any clarification in advance guys!
Sharpness is a function of the lens that can be affected by megapixel count.
If we have lens A, B and C (A being a sharp lens, B an OK lens, and C a mediocre lens) and have 3 cameras: 8, 16, 24mp, we can safely assume that:
– All lenses will look relatively same-ish at 8mp. This is because the sensor cannot gather more details from the lens (the sensor becomes the bottle neck)
– Lens C will show its weakness at 16mp, while B and A will be fairly close in “resolution” (which I will define below for this purpose)
– At 24mp, C is already considered a bad lens. B will show its weaknesses compared to A. A can show its resolving power at 24mp.
Sharpness and resolution are not the same. In the example above, even a bad lens can look “sharp” when the sensor cannot resolve much information.
But when we get into the high megapixel counts, sharpness of a lens can be easily shown. This is because a lens can now match or exceed a sensor resolution capability so the pricier sharp lenses will find real value in higher megapixel cameras (or rather said, you will see why they can cost considerably more when you have a higher megapixel count to resolve)
Photozone.de has examples (from many cameras at different resolutions) that you can see how the same lens would be good in some cameras and not so good on others (often with more mp)
Hope this helps
Lens, megapixel, sensor size. In particularly, images taken with fixed lens on FF has up to 1.5 times microcontrast boost compared to APS-C and the same lens, thanks to lower enlargement because of 1.5 times linearly larger sensor.
Thanks for the reply, it clears a lot up for me! This would explain why I actually find my kit zoom to be relatively sharp in comparison to my 24mm Zeiss prime. Though I can see the obvious benefits of its much shallower depth of field at that focal length, I was worried that I had just spent a huge chunk of change on that alone with very little noticeable sharpness, even when pixel peeping. Sharpening the images up in Lightroom and the difference becomes smaller. So if I got the NEX7, I should clearly see the lens sharpness differences then right? And the image should be noticeably better when using my Zeiss lens or also the 50mm prime since the 16mp sensor was the limitation to the lens performance right?
I never understood why there were complaints from people about the kit zoom being soft when I never saw it being all that soft compared to the Zeiss. I suppose all the complaints came from either pixel peepers or 7 owners then huh?
Your assumptions are right.
When you upgrade to a higher megapixels sensor, you will see the differences between the lenses increase.
As a 24mm Zeiss owner, this review will lay it out best for you.
http://www.slrlensreview.com/web/reviews/carl-zeiss-lenses-swhorizontalmenu-172/zeiss-wide-angle/804-carl-zeiss-sonnar-24mm-f18-nex-lens-review
He uses both a NEX 7 and 5n.
Pay particular attention to the Line Widths per Picture Height graph (LW/PH) which shows the increased ‘resolution’.
Ben: I had the same doubts some years ago, then I realised it’s just a marketing scam.
Huge megapixel counts are not for everybody, and most people don’t need them.
A good lens has so much more than “sharpness”, for example:
resistance to flare
good and durable construction
quality of out-of-focus areas
low lateral aberrations
low longitudinal aberrations
Don’t make the typical beginner’s mistake and shoot wide open and check for extreme corner sharpness. This is what toy manufacturers want you to do, so you feel frustrated with whatever you have got and give them more dosh. Photozone, DXO & co are well incompetent, but sometimes give useful information re some of my points above. Don’t rely on those! Either test stuff yourself, or look up someone else’s shots, which were taken with one or the other product you may be interested in.
Sorry I meant “Photozone, DXO & co are well incompetent, and rarely give useful information re my points above.”
+1 Great points!
“But, is there a gain in image sharpness or any sort of visible benefit to having more mega pixels?”
Yes, if the camera is good.
Take a look at the Nikon D7100 and the Sony NEX-7. Both offer 24mp resolution. The Nikon has a better sensor and also has no AA (blur) filter. Incidentally both the sensors are produced by Sony.
In addition, the 7100 offers better ergonomics. Hence shake induced blurs are minimal compared to the NEX-7.
The RX-1 performs way better (final printed image quality) than those two cams despite having its own drwabacks.
Like you, I am also hopeful that the NEX-7 successor will offer the goods.
You don’t know much about what you talk about.
The D7100 sensor is made by Toshiba.
D7100 is an SLR, not a compact camera. Ergonomics comparison here is subjective since they are not in the same tier of camera categories.
You are putting yourself in a pickle. Yes, the D7100 sensor is different (better) than the one in the !
NEX-7 on many technical levels. Sony holds a big stake in Toshiba. Come to 21st century
What evidence do you have that Toshiba sensor is actually a Sony sensor?
Also that the NEX-7 has *more* shake than a mirror-slapping DSLR?
The point is not about the brand (check the original post before Hendrick the nasty twisted it) but the performance.
D7100 sensor has copper wiring as opposed to NEX-7 sensor ( search the web and you will find it).
This translates to better performance. Some of the websites quoted have rated these cameras and check them out. 🙂
Also, this isn’t about A vs E. 24mp sensor was the question.
As a Sony user, would I expect the best sensor available in a system camera or I will have to be content with a cybershot?
That is the qusetion that Sony will have to address.
LOL. Copper wiring?? Are you sure you aren’t talking about Denon D7100 headphones or something?
The biggest difference between Sony and Nikon sensor performance, when we’re talking about the same silicon base layer, is that Sony uses a more opaque color filter, which improves color at the cost of some DR and SNR (same with medium format digital.)
Why are you lolling, GH? Instead of the speculation and dissemination false information based on that speculation, check this out (you will have to scroll down a bit to see aluminum (Al) and copper (Cu) used by different manufacturers).
http://www.chipworks.com/en/technical-competitive-analysis/resources/blog/inside-the-nikon-d5200-dslr-toshiba-found/
I am well known to be a big fan of higher resolution.
I agree we are not even close to to having a sensor that can outresolve a high quality lens.
When discussing megapixels and resolution people sometimes get confused because they forget to specify the sensor size.
A full frame sensor is 2.25x the size of a c sensor.
If both sizes were to have the same megapixels such as 32mp as an example then the fuul frame would have much lower resolution than the c
If the ff were to have 75mp than the resolution of the two would be the same, the quality would be the same and if we shoot both eith the same ff lenses the ff would have more omage
Some people prefer a lower resolution ff (same megapixels)If they think yhe image will in some way be better. I do not share that preferrence I would like a ff with the same resolution and quality but 2.25x the pixels as the c size camera.
what about RX10 ?
I personally think that a 1DC competitor with e-mount would be fantastic. I do think that Sony’s would, sadly, be priced similarly to the 1DC because the FS700 can do 4k at around $13k though. So, the Sony would have to have to combine both the resolving power of a D800, the speed and versatility of a 1DC, and the pro video features and quality (zebras, histogram, audio controls, XLR with external box, no moire/aliasing, and peaking) of their video line of cameras to compete effectively in the 1DC’s market.
I’m looking at you NAB 2013 concept camera!!
The concept at NAB look not like a dedicated video camera like the C100 not a 1DC/1DX derivative that can take still.
It would make sense for 1Dx cam over 1Dc. Sony has many vid cameras.
@Fire1 Very true. A 1DX is more profitable in the long run, while a camera like the 1DC is in a very niche market occupied by enthusiasts and working professionals. Personally I love the idea of a hybrid camera, which is why I really want to see Sony’s 1DC. Sadly, like you said, it probably won’t happen. And, although there were rumors about 4K video in Sony’s SLR lineup, I’m worried that with the introduction of the new 4K XDCAMs there is no room for a 4K interchangeable lens SLR in the lineup. The only way I can see it work is if 4K is limited to 24p and 25p, which I’m personally fine with and differentiates the 4K in the cameras enough to somewhat work. Even then, though, the FS100 does not fit in with it and would need to be to be more like an FS700 while the 4K external boxes for the FS700, F55, and F5 would need to go down in price.
Ugh. I’d hate to be the person who needs to do this for a living.
I think the “trick” will be in the codecs. Besides the FS100 and FS700 you buy for the optimized sensor and frame rate (FS700’s case) plus they are both nearing the end of their life cycle–the FS100 in particular.
I think the new FF cameras may shoot 4k but it will be 8bit XAVC-S *only*. That way the only directly competitive Sony product is the AX1, but that’s a whole different animal. Or the FS700 but it has super high frame rates.
However, the 4K will be a (or Sony will think it is) a great buzz-y keyword to get sales from would-be filmmakers and the like. I’m not sure it will work because more and more people are better educated about the benefits of color, bit-rate, and the buzz is all about raw video these days. Those are all things Sony wants to keep exclusive to its PMW and F lines of cameras.
WoW, this is some great news thanks admin. atleast there talking about new a-mounts kind off
In did, finally something interesting instead of usual E-mount spam.
Interesting as it sounds like they will be adding still another mount. So there will the A, E, and “FF” mount. It’s right there in what he said. I wonder how they will divide their lens production resources.
Not surprising as E mount is being adapted to other lens mounts that Sony does not make any money out. Undoubtedly the new one will be proprietary.
How exactly did you come to that conclusion.
Sony makes two interchangeable camera mounts. A-mount and E-mount, where the E stands for eighteen, as in 18mm flange distance. Simple really.
Now it just so happens that both the A-mount and E-mount will be enclosing either APS-C and FF sensors, both mounts with their distinct advantages. WHY would Sony p… off the Sony users or camera fans by introducing a third camera mount???
Don’t feed the troIls.
Im afraid you’re completely off the ball on this one.
Sony, from day 1 of their Nex line, has said that they made the E mount to be able to take a FF sensor. The difference between E and FE is no more than the difference between Nikon’s DX and FX. The designations are just used for identification purposes but the mechanical interface would be the same for both aps-c and ff Nex cameras.
Even if Sony introduced a new mount it’s not going to be a problem because aps-c lenses on a FF sensor would be a complete waste. If Sony made a mount with an even shorter flange distance than the E mount, it’s only better for people because more lenses would be usable via adapters… not there are many that can’t be used on the existing E mount.
Interesting, right after a99 production termination. Please, oh please, Sony, give me an excuse not to get a Canon 6D.
Admin:
Can you elaborate on this comment: “he thinks the ff a mount will make a mark?”
Thanks
+1
+2
Currently the NEX 7 body costs US$1100.00. IMO a NEX FF shouldn’t be over US$1800.00, unless it has SSI (Steady Shot Inside).
Unlikely. Look at the past threads. People are expecting $2000-2500+ in average.
Please allow stop down shooting mode to maximize EVF potential. This is the one big advantage for using adapted lenses. They don’t suffer from focus shift because you actually view and focus at the real aperture. This allows real live view of depth of field too. The native auto lenses are at big disadvantage because they always show wide aperture view even when shooting closed down. Stop down shooting mode would be more consistent too, because the aperture doesn’t have to open/close with every shot.
Lenses usually back focus a little bit when closed down from maximum. This makes critical focus impossible for close up head shots. You don’t see the actual focus point when lens view is wide open. Give me the option to shoot live at the actual aperture chosen… even if it’s all manual focus, I don’t care. Just provide stop down mode like the old adapter lenses offer. It’s important to anyone who understands why.
This would be solved if DOF preview could be configured as a toggle.
Im sorry, but there is no way that a Sony representative at a bike show would know anything about any future cameras. He probably got his information off of here!
What about action camera’s? I guess that is the Cybershot department, where the RX camera’s all come from… I think it’s plausable.
They don’t get told anything, they are sales reps! There’s don’t find out about Sony’s latest and greatest until we do.
You are wrong.
Action cams are big in outdoor sports like biking. I find it completely plausible that a Sony rep would give out info about the action cam at a big bike show.
I was the one who posted the rumor about the A mount ff and the E mount FF. Sony had engineers and Their Manager of Strategic Business Development on hand. Sony is actually taking the action cam very serious and investing a lot of R&D into it. It is funny that they are using outside distributors to sell this camera too. I can post price lists now LOL. The reason the FF A mount camera came up is because the sony managers got super excited when I pulled out my A850 with zeiss lens. They rarely see anyone using it and they asked why I do not have the A99? I told them I was going to wait and they smiled and said I would be happy I did.
I hope Sony will include a new Flash with this FF A cam, after the F60 very serious flaw.
Yes, please share the price info if possible. 🙂
Where is the Like button when you want it ???
I am with Danny Boy. What about RX-10???
This purpose of a well timed rumor is to build interest. The result of a premature fabrication pretending to be a rumor becomes a long and painful turnoff.
on the 7th day the A-mount rose again
I thought it was on the third day?!
And the big mirror that blocked the entrance was magically removed.
yep
I haven’t been this excited since they announced… the NEX-7. The NEX-FF will (fingers-crossed) be a game-changing revolutionary device. Price no longer matters if it meets our expectations.
Can’t wait for the new A-mount FF camera..
The A mount FF you all are going on about looks more like typo in that text admin posted than a real sentence that makes sense…
Sony, just don’t screw it up. A99 uber hyped 102 points double AF module along with the overheating HVL-60 turned out to be a major flop, a toy and more of a slap on the face of the remaining Sony pro shooters. I’m still curious what they may come up with, but I don’t hold my breath any more.
Tune it to work fast, intuitive and hire some WORKING PROFESSIONALS to test the crap out of the new gear, fix what they find wrong and THEN release it. Do it right the first time.
Well, they gave A99 to working professionals and see what came out? Better they’d give it to reviewers, or people like that – those that actually worked with dozens of different cameras from different manufacturers and can point out mistakes easily without using their habits from years of experience using exactly the same gear over and over again mixed with Sony Marketing BS.
Being a working professional can actually be a disadvantage when it comes to finding issues with a camera. A99 was brilliant from a perspective of very narrow type of the work, but it couldn’t stand on it’s own as an universal all-around tool. And that’s what people want if they are given only 1 full frame to choose from.
+1
Has there been any further rumors about the sensor based AF. I would jump on the camera if this was true. I love the old school 3 lens selection , I have a 21mm distagon , new Sigma 35mm F1.4, and my favorite focal length on FF my Sony 135 F/1.8z , which covers a lot of my type of shooting.Even if the sensor AF does not come to pass I will still be getting the Nex FF as I am happy with manual focus though sometimes AF is pretty handy.One deal-breaker for me would be mp count I want 30mp minimum.