The Korean site Naver posted these slides from a Sony Korea presentation (translation on courtesy of Dicahub and SAR reader Park). There are a couple of interesting info:
– Sony is now entering “Phase 2” of their product startegy. From 2014 towards focsu will be on the High End A and E-mount market.
– In Korea Sony has the chance to become the leader of the system camera market (DSLR+Mirrorless) by end of this year! They have 31% of the whole market in Korea and 53% of the mirrorless market.
– Sony said they have 50% share of the global sensor market (on a quantity basis).
– Sony said A6000’s 24.3MP sensor is a newly designed sensor. On-chip design is applied on this sensor as that of A7 and A7r, which gives about 20% increase in sensitivity over NEX-7’s sensor.
Well, I am not surprised to hear they want to focus on the higher end market. It’s where you make the money in these days! Let’s hope we wills ee all these new stuff very soon 🙂
More slides:
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come on? really? hm, I want APS-C RX100 III? 🙂
Why stop there? Go for a Full Frame RX100R3
Pah! Amateurs! Medium Format RX100 MKIII
What’s wrong with you?! Only large format will do! Lensless – let microlenses focus each pixel! 🙂
Call it the Pic-man….give it an MP3 player too! Perfection.
Pff. Real men carry a 4×5 in their back pocket!
Why stop there? Medium format RX0.1
Why stop there? Large format RX001
We’re at the end of the 1st quarter of 2014 and haven’t seen a sign of a high end a or e-mount body. In fact all we’ve seen officially so far this year are mid (a6000) or entry level (a3500)… Arguably the a77ii is as high as you’ll get from apsc, but I doubt we’ll see that before June, and the ff rumours point to September (Photokina).
On the 1st slide, it says “focus to change paradigm middle- and higher-range market AFTER 2014”.
I’ve heard a rumour that Sony has won Canon this quarter in Korea in the whole system camera market.
In the first slide, is that camera in the top right the first shot of the next A-mount?! Given it is blurred to make it hard to tell, but the mount flange looks to be much larger…
Thanks Andrea, you have brightened my day 🙂
What does that mean for the current A and E line of products then? Does that mean that the A7/r will not be high end anymore? Or the a99?
I think the A7r will keep being the A7r and being as high end as it is today. They just mean that in their view there’s space for higher-end cameras likely the A9/A9r
I don’t know. I think this probably means that the A7r will no longer take good quality pictures because it will no longer be top of the line. Isn’t that how this works? Also, clearly A mount and E mount are now doomed! DOOOMED!!!
Sony’s probably going to drop both A mount and E mount and create an entirely new system called the pic-man which will double as an MP3 player.
Yeah, there is that rumor. All the A7rs will stop working as soon as the higher end models are released. Just like all the NEX-6s and 7s stopped working when the a6000 was released 🙂
I just noticed as well that although the graphic cakes have Company A, B, or C, the colours could imply the actual identity of the companies:
Red: Canon
Yellow: Nikon
Blue: Samsung
Dark Blue: Olympus
I don’t think company A is Samsung. Although it is Korea, they might enjoy some home-field advantage…
That’s why I assumed A is Samsung. Home turf and all.
I see more oly here(korea) than samsung… even koreans r hesistant to buy samsung cameras..
Interesting. Any particular reason for Koreans to be hesitant towards Samsung for cameras? As far as I understand it, Samsung and LG are the preferred brands of Koreans (I know a few Koreans here in Europe) for almost anything in Korea. I imagined that Samsung relied on its strength of the strong consumer goods portfolio they already have.
I lived a year in Korea, the reason for their preference for Samsung/LG/Hyundai is simple, foreign brands are dealing with import taxes. In general and to my big surprise, electronics are not cheap in Korea, also not Samsung and LG.
That is definitely true.. but for the camera market, Koreans, like everybody else, are somehow taught that Canon is the best out there. Even in the mirrorless market, we mostly purchase Sony NEX series. It seems like in the camera market, Koreans still prefer and trust Japanese manufacturers than their own (same as every other country out there so far).
apparently my previous comment didn’t get posted…
but yeah Samsung and LG are preferred.. but even Koreans are pretty Canon-minded when comes to cameras. They all think and believe (like rest of the world) that Canon is the best.
The A99 had always been (until very recently) classified as a mid level camera by Sony. The A7R is placed a notch below the A99 (The NEX and such being called “gadgets”). Their only flagship (“pro level” camera) was the discontinued A900.
This development is interesting and is a welcome sign that things are getting better with Sony’s plan with the camera products. If only they will try to get the maximum out of their sensors in their own cams….
First I was concerned about A-mount dying, now I am concerned that I might be priced out of A-mount!
With the new wave of (FF) upcoming cameras from C an N, you have to think differently. The Sony cam will be competitively priced.
Check the price of Nikon’s new D4s to get a reality check.
the d4s is 6500 usd at B&H. that is pretty high.
Indeed. It is the same number in Euros in the EU.
Yesterday’s Q from the Admin about a medium format (albeit in a different category) camera from Sony for US $5,000- how does that sound, purely in terms of the price tag? 🙂
It sounds amazing, but then again: April fools is around the corner.
Too early for that. LOL.
A commercial medium format CMOS sensor/camera also sounded impossible until Sony made one available.
The sensor size is about the same of the 40mp sensor in the phase, pentax and hassy backs. the pentax camera is only 6.500 usd. although is subpar compared to the phase one and hasseblad package. maybe sony can make a 5 grands mamiya 7 like body. I think is doable and would take medium format price down to normality. Sony brought down to normality High End DSLR prices once they introduced the a900.
EXACTLY.
WTF.
C-company is obviously Canon. A or B is Nikon?
I am surprised how well Alpha is doing in mirrorless market in Korea. 51%? Do they include DSLT in mirrorless?
Thats allllll the mirrorless oly.. n such compated to allll the dslr
DSLTs are considered DSLRs for marketing purposes. They are Sony’s equivalent to Canon/Nikon’s DSLRs, with which they compete. The CIPA organisation include them in their DSLR shipment numbers.
So does this mean A and E mount are officially dead?
I am SO angry at Sony!!! >:-(
5LeggedInsect …. How did you read that into this. I see it as the opposite they will push A and E mount more. Especially in Asia
NO. I do macro photography of mushroom roots with entry-level cameras, and if Sony makes a camera that isn’t optimal for my use case, it is the same as destroying all their systems!!!
you’re so right. I never dared to say, but yes. That’s the point.
I know, this is outrageous! As a professional magma tube photographer (I’ve been published in all of the magma periodicals) Sony really needs to develop a camera system that can withstand 1000’s of degrees of temperature fluctuation. It’s outrageous that they are so short sighted and incapable of catering to their demographics!!!
@Rabblerabble I have the opposite problem as an astrophotographer , who likes to take my photos from the moon { no atmosphere makes for very clear shots} If the gear can stand the -153°C cold during the night I am out.Anyway I cant afford the high-end I spent all my spare cash on a space shuttle
Sony is over flowing with entry level cameras. High end is new territory.
no! this means that i just drаnk my third coffee.
Here’s a little tip for you.
Pretty sure Sony doesn’t give a rat’s ass how angry you are at them. You can cry and scream and kick all 5 of your legs until you’re blue in the face and Sony will still do whatever it wants to.
Go troll elsewhere.
Why troll somewhere else when the biting fish are plentiful here? 🙂
So lets see some actual A mount cameras already.
One full frame A mount camera does not make a serious dent in high end DSLR gear. How about better flash support and more lenses please.
Sonys inflatable plans to dominate the digital photography market…
They should better dedicate themselves to photography instead of drawing we-rule-the-world slides.
Fuji would never act like this. Completely different approach.
Don’t see anything about new E-mount lenses?
no worries. they are coming late spring of 2052.
(as a nice retro lenses)
SEL70200f4 is coming in the next few weeks (if not available already) and 5 more lenses this year.
Not for APSC E mount and price is crazy for people who doesn’t need such quality level
Translation: High-end = larger sensors.
Yes, but from what perspective? From iPhone?
Hmm, it doesn’t bode well for APSC e-mount owners that aren’t rolling in money. Surprising after the Nex line was such a success – surely there are a lot of owners out there that would happily stay with Sony but just cant’ run to high level full frame systems?
did you miss the A6000?
It’s not the bodies so much as it is the lenses. As far as new stuff goes, we’re probably going to be stuck with bulky, expensive FE lenses.
Yes – to be persuaded to continue investing in the system I wan’t to know that lenses will continue to get developed (particularly as the current lens offering is still somewhat limited) and that new bodies will get released as technology improves (new sensor tech, IBIS etc). Otherwise the whole system becomes dated and the second hand value diminishes.
I would love a full frame camera system (particularly one as portable as the A7) but the reality is I can’t afford the bodies and certainly not the lenses – if I could there is a good chance I would have bought a canon 6d and not a nex 5n!
I am pretty happy with my Nex 5n (but could be tempted by the a6000 and would love a good value decent quality ultra wide angle). But the current outlook is making me seriously consider selling out altogether and very reluctant to continue investing.
Ditto. I haven’t bought into a system yet, myself. Just going by the bodies, if I were to buy today, I would order an a6000, hands down. But the relative lack of lenses makes me really hesitant to buy in. MFT might not have quite the raw sensor power, but they’ve got a MUCH better selection of lenses!
What lens are you looking for? The NEX system seems pretty complete to me.
Off the top of my head…
Anything at all below f/1.8 (other than the odd manual Samyang). You can get a 50mm f/1.4 from Canon or Nikon for about the same price as Sony’s f/1.8, and they’re smaller to boot.
Primes longer than 60mm. Something along the lines of the Olympus 75mm f/1.8.
Longer tele zooms. E-mount currently tops out at what, 210mm? On MFT, you can get a 300mm (=400mm on APS-C) for under $500.
An f/2.8 zoom, like the Olympus 12-40.
I’m sure there’s others…
1) If the difference between 1.8 and 1.4 means that much to your photography, I feel bad for you.
2) The Nikon and Canon versions aren’t optically stabilized, and their bokeh is worse imho. As a system, the NEX is much much smaller than either Canon or Nikon when mounted on a DSLR.
3) Learn to adapt lenses. The long lenses you want are much much cheaper with a simple adapter.
4) Who wants a crap tele? Birders aren’t going to give up their rigs for e-mount anyway. The lens you want is a Nikon 300 Ai-s, I picked one up for $200 and it is amazing on NEX.
5) The Oly 12-40 has no better DOF or low light performance than zeiss 16-70.
Waiting for the others, those were pretty weak.
Wow, really, no difference between f/4 and f/2.8 in low light? Yeah, OK, I’m not even gonna bother replying to the rest of that post…
I agree Colin. I bought into the NEX6 line thinking I could build with it as I progressed. But with good lenses at a $1000 a pop, and with Sony giving me a clear upgrade path, I’m thinking that I cut my losses now and find another system to grow with.
Meant to say NOT giving me a clear upgrade path
You could always just hit the Edit button, you know. 😛
Phase 1: Get underpants.
Phase 2: ……..
Phase 3: Profit!
http://www.cipa.jp/stats/documents/e/d-2013_e.pdf
The mirrorless market share compared to DSLR for the whole of Asia {excluding Japan} still only accounts for 25% of the overall interchangeable lens market .
Considering the truly massive population numbers in Asia {admittedly many are poor} you are still getting 3 out of four cameras being DSLR. I do not know what
percentage of these sales involve South Korea, but it looks like Sony are doing
some serious cherry picking to find a market { maybe the only market ?} that they can claim to dominate.
It’s a Sony Korea presentation. Do you expect them to talk about the market in Brunei?
No , I do not expect any reality from Sony regarding the overall finacial failure of both their DSLR { crashed and almost gone} and mirrorless { lost money hand over fist} businesses. Anymore, than I expect sense from Zohee35.
However, I accidentally typed SONY when I was commenting on the thread posted by Admin. It should have read as :
“”, it looks like…. YOU…. are doing some serious cherry picking to find a market { maybe the only market ?} that they can claim to dominate.””
Yes, such cherry picking of Sony SOUTH KOREA, to talk about South Korea.
I’ve come to the conclusion that I have it all wrong. I’ve gone from sony aps-c to full frame and then adding in a second system with micro four thirds. What the heck am I thinking. It’s time to go 4×5 and just do slide film. Heck, maybe even do a Mamiya 6 with a 50, 80 and 150mm lens and stick with film. Here I though I had it all figured out….film is the final frontier.
And … If both of us do it, they’ll bring back Velvia?
Good for Sony! Go dominate that market! Ownnnn it!
HEY SONY, IF YOU WANT TO DEAR TARGETING PRO MARKET, PLEASE BRING US SOME PROFESSIONAL WIRELESS RADIO TRIGER AND MAKE POCKET WIZZARD FOR SONY!!
What good will this be when all of their flashes are inferior?
with pocket wizzard or something similiar you can have advantage than using flash when use long range, studio lighting and hypersync speed on profesional lighting so you can freezing action in higher shutter speed to maximum shutter with out loos power of lighting, ambient, and more :))
Will Sony be venturing into high end with compressed raw and rapid model updates rather than long term firmware support and a real ear to what clients want?
Clearly, A is samsung in mirrorless pie chart
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/tech/2013/08/133_140729.html
“Sony Korea and Samsung Electronics account for a
combined 80 percent of the domestic mirrorless camera market, with Sony
taking the lead with a 51 percent share.”
Assuming sony’s so so DSLT sales, and samsung’s zero DSLR sales, we can conclude A in ILC pie chart is samsung too, and mirrorless holds 50% of total ILC market in S.K.
And we now know C is canon and B is nikon
Also, as pointed below, the color represented for each company is same as that’s brand’s color
Orange -> sony alpha
Blue -> Samsung
Red -> Canon
Yellow -> Nikon
Doesn’t look too good for new APS-C E-mount lenses. So if you’re a NEX-6, NEX-7, or A6000 owner hoping Sony brings out some new lenses, you’re probably only going to see bulky and expensive FF stuff.
Pretty sure Sony will continue to bring out E mount lenses. Hence the A6000 not being FF. Just not at the some rate as FE mount.
I’ll believe it when I see it, I guess…
Is this a statement that Sony’s sensor chip division has failed to find a way to dramatically improve the sensitivity of APS-C chips?
It’s very hard to improve SNR as this stage. Actually, it is no sony to worry about increase sensitivty of aps-c chips. sony apc-s sensor is best in market, the new 24MP sensor (in nikon D5300 and pentax k-3) is very close or slight better than toshiba(in nikon D7100 and D5200) and samsung’s, leap ahead of canon’s current aps-c sensor (in 70D)
Some one may claim fujifilm has best high-iso performance,
however
1. fujifilm is known to cheat their ISO marking by one stop
2. all fujifilm aps-c model use a sony sensor, that has be spotted.
They all “cheat” their ISO bottom line is you can shoot at the same shutter speed and aperture on Fuji as you can on Sony or Nikon and especially mFT and get clearly better results at high ISO with both more detail and less noise. The sensor in the D5300 is the Nikon designed Toshiba fabricated sensor not Sony.
No and No
At same marked ISO, and same aperture, fujifilm need double the shutter time to achieve same brightness as nikon, that I called cheat.
And D5300 use sony IMX193, which is reported by chipworks tears down.I don’t think it is designed by nikon
Yes, the D5300 definitely has the Sony sensor. The D5200 and D7100 have the Toshiba sensor, which is not a Nikon design. The D3200 and D3300 have a Nikon-designed sensor manufactured by Renesas. So three different 24 Mp sensors.
I predict olympus is in the best position in terms of mirrorless over the next 5 years. Sure, they’re slice of the market isn’t big, but their mirrorless cameras make the most sense in terms of both body and lens size. As the next generation of sensors come out, it’s the smaller formats that will have the most to gain. You can already get .95 speed lenses for the oly if your that serious about razor thin totally impractical depth of field. In terms of full frame mirrorless I see Sony taking continuing to dominate. I do not anticipate them fumbling in terms of lens selection like the a mount- it’s a matter of long term survival now.
As far as alpha, who knows…none of us know. As an alpha shooter I don’t care either- lenses are great and I’m satified with what I already have. Adaptors- ok, I guess I can live with that. It’s all about the lenses anyway and alpha still rules as far as that goes.
The EM-1 is a bulky porker, big and heavy, leveraging the least in terms of sensor format size. At the same size, A7 and XT1 make more sense in terms of the promise- the sole promise- of merely cameras: size and weight.
“merely cameras” = mirrorless cameras.
Ronin you are right they are all merely cameras , my wife has pointed this out to me on a number of occasions lol
That’s the reason for the EM5 and now the EM10- much smaller and both offer less bulk in terms of a grip. Size isn’t the only advantage- greater depth of field at wide open aperatures is HUGE. A7 and XT1- they are excellent in terms of their own respective formats. Although, check out stevehuffphoto and see his comparision between the EM5 images and the A7R. I can’t tell the freaking difference and I doubt most people could. I own a Ep5 and its fantastic. I still use my a900 for the big stuff and sold off the a77. All zeiss for sony full frame and now I’m building a micro line up- IMO in terms of real use the results are EXCELLENT.
There is no DOF advantage for mFT you can stop down the lens on a larger format to achieve the same DOF if needed. The often significant advanatge in sensor image quality ,easily compensates for this ,if needed. As diffraction occurs at the same DOF on all formats even at maximum { non-diffraction limited } DOF on mFT you can get the same DOF on larger formats.
Other than the deluded Olympus mFT users { yes, it is always Olympus users} the image quality of mFT is poorer than their rivals at every ISO from base onwards { poorer shadow detail,DR etc} and by high ISO the difference is very obvious indeed. Though not for Olympus users obviously lol
“There is no DOF advantage”- Wrong. It depends on application and a larger DOF at…say…1.4 is an advantage in terms of keeping your subject completely in focus. You can stop down on FF, but often FF glass does not offer the best sharpness at wide open. Check out the reviews on most Zuiko lenses- tac sharp at wide open. Voigtlanders 17, 25 and 42.5mm .95’s have been shown to be tac sharp at around 1.2- 1.4.
Diluded- well, maybe. I’m in both camps so whatever. I’ve done comparisons between my zeiss and zuiko lenses. People split hairs over performance they’ll never use or be able to discern between. You want massive wall sized prints- go A7R. You plan on viewing your pics on a decent 24in LED LCD- it doesn’t matter in most circumstances. You have to operate in the extremes to really tell the difference.
I have to agree with BobTB, but I’d also say that FF will have advantage in everything, except lens and body size.
A mFT at 24mm f/1.2 ISO800 is the same as FF 50mm f/2.8 ISO3200
Both will have the same angle of view, same DOF, with roughly the same noise levels. The advantage of a FF, is that in general a FF f/1.4 lens is much sharper at 1.4 than a mFT lens at f/0.7(1.4 + 2 stops, if my math is right). In addition, diffraction would set in at the same F stop for a 58mp FF as a 15mp mFT sensor.
So a FF camera does not just have a usable ISO range advantage, it also has an equivalent(f-stop) sharpness advantage wide open(1.4 FF vs 0.7 mFT), has an advantage in number of lenses available at their maximum available f-stop(1.4), and it has an advantage in diffraction, since no FF sensor goes above 36mp today.
FF will have the advantage in everything except lens and body size and *price*. 🙂
Pics are on the way- I’ll let you guys do the comparision. Just gotta get off of work.
Yeah, totally forgot that one 🙂
Depends on many different factors. 6D is one of the smallest and lightest full frames available and the a99 trimmed quite a lot of weight. Lens size? Can’t agree either- depends more on lens selection. Sony’s 50mm 1.4 is dang small. If your looking at legacy lenses minolta’s 24mm 2.8 and 20mm are almost micro four thirds sized- tiny in comparison and cheap as hell. Price? If your willing to go a generation older you can get a full frame in practically any system for under a grand slightly used. It’s all relative and you can match a price point to almost any format depending on your needs and particular willingness to consider used. Full frame has “advantages” no doubt but I do not believe it has “the advantage” in practical terms outside of the 2% of extreme high end user applications.
that’s a fact, add to this the fact that we all look at computer screen size, and print in small album prints, maybe an A3+ sometime, and then seek for any reason to spend that much money.
You are right about size { if you ignore equivalence } I am not so sure about price.There are some pretty expensive options in mirrorless .For lenses that when compared apples to apples with FF glass { DOF, AOV and total light} become pretty pedestrian
Case in point Panasonic 42.5mm F1.2 does the exact same job as an 85mm F2.4 on FF by same I mean same DOF , same AOV and same total light. It costs £1249 the excellent Nikon 85mm F1.8g { the 85mm f1.8 is an excellent performer even on the 36mp D800e}.The Sony 24mm F1.8 costs £670 while doing the same job as a 35mm F2.8 the Canon 35mm F2 with IS built in COSTS £450.
A mFT portrait fan buying the Panasonic 42.5 with the cheapest current Panasonic body with EVF the GX7 will be spending £1920 . A Nikon FF shooter buying the D610 + Nikon 85mm F1.8g gets , better DOF control, better total light gathering, better sensor, better DR , better resolution better shadow noise etc £1720. For those not disabled or otherwise impaired you tell me what is the best buy.
There is no ‘equivalence’ on exposure. f/2 is f/2, whether it’s MFT, APS-C, or FF. Gathering twice the light is irrelevant if it’s spread over an area twice as large – the illumination of a given area on the sensor is the same.
I agree that both of those Panasonics are overpriced at the moment, but that’s cherry-picking it. A Fujifilm X-E1 + XF 56mm f/1.2 will set you back $1600 – about $300 less than that D610 body alone. In that case, you’ve got slightly shallower DoF and probably better low-light performance than with an f/1.8 on that Nikon. And of course, you’ve got a far smaller setup that way, and some of us are quite willing to pay a little more if it means we don’t have to lug around such bulky gear.
FF never has an advantage in everything, it has for example too much native DOF to make good tourism shots where all is clear from front to rear, even APSC is not suitable in many occasions, 4/3 or 1″ makes here the deal. To be the’ man for all situations, you need 2 formats, a FF or APSC, and a 1″ or smaller. I do not want a FF and the reason is simple, for the shots I do it wont serve me. I use APSC and 1″, maybe I will get a 4/3 for tourism too, lets wait what the new Kodak camera will bring us. To me the best camera that has almost all you want or need is GX7. With an APSC sensor I would have bought it right away. Sony seems not to be able or interested to make such a perfect machine with a better sensor.
What makes you think that endless DOF shots as done by mobile phones and cheap point of shoot cameras are “good” tourism shots. If this is what you want a 28mm lens on FF at F8 will give you DOF from a 4ft to infinity. Set it at its hyperfocal distance and you would even need to bother focussing
You are wrong about diffraction , it is at the same DOF regardless of format , a mFT lens at F8 will be affected the same as a FF at F16.
Diffraction does not just depend on sensor size, It also depends on pixel size. a 16mp mFT and a 58mp FF will both have diffraction at f8. A 16 mp FF on the other hand, will have diffraction set in at F16.
Here’s a calculator, to help you with diffraction math. Make sure to switch to advanced mode and set circle of confusion based on pixels.
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/diffraction-photography.htm
All camera makers have announced that they intend to focus on the high-end market.
Which means you have the same players focusing on a smaller demographic with overpriced lenses and bodies.
The high-end market means bigger margins. Since they all failed in low-margin compacts, this is the only space left for them.
But with cameras and lenses already too pricey, and with results indistinguishable from models two generations old, fewer and fewer people are willing to constantly feed the high-end overpriced products.
This is a losing strategy, of course. But what choice do they have? All other players are going after the high-end market. What would my boss think if we didn’t too? What would the shareholders think?
And so product churn continues, with more and more minor feature changes across generations. Fake newness at a high price point. Unsustainable. Who will be the last ones standing?
New sensor technology is on the horizon in 15-16.That’s why I most likely will not invest in an A77II or A99II. I don’t see the point. I doubt the results will offer any perceivable difference. Your comments are spot on. I do think that organic non-bayer sensors with possibly sensors that can adjust individual exposure at the pixel level could o it. We already have to many options and the market is beyond oversaturated. I really don’t see the future at this point but time will tell.
Call me crazy. I bought into the NEX cameras early. Buying a 5 and then a 7 (for EVF and 24mp) and a 6 (also EVF but better lower light w/16mp). Have got a lot of the lenses including the Zeiss.
A lot to the DSLRs had APS-C but the NEX is considerably smaller and lighter. I am intrigued by the A6000. But now am going to wait.
SONY, WHAT WE ALL REALLY NEED FOR OUR NEXs/A#000, IS A LONGER E-MOUNT LENS. Their had been a rumor of a SEL70400G2. Yes e-mount and APS-C. SONY DON’T THROUGH THE APS-C USERS UNDER THE BUS, BUT WE NEED A LONG LENS WITH OSS.
Give us a true NEX7 successor! We don’t need full frame, APS-C is as good as full frame with better DOF for most of us!
Well… how is it that the word ‘we’ is so commonly employed when the intent is to influence others (in this case the company) ?! – *I* do indeed ‘need’/want full frame, as I make large prints; and DOF of large size sensor is *my* preference, too; would it not be just as unrealistic to state ‘ ‘we’ need large sensors, and full frame DOF is better for most of us’ ?!
well I join the comment of Zoran, then the “we” is justified. Satisfied now smartbut?
note also that 24 mpix picture is enough to cover a housewall and here it doesn’t matters if it come out of a FF or a APS-C or even 4/3. With a fractal resizing software, like Alien Skin Blow Up, you cover a house wall wit a 6 mpix D40 shot. So, your comment on “we” and FF is crap, just your own opinion is here expressed and billions of people have 7 billions of opinions and for each of them, the only one that counts is his own. So, accept that anyone can express his opinion.
Now, to when a real NEX-7 successor?
That makes it 2 vs 2. Cause I join Petervq. My A65 is lacking, when it comes down to low noise ISO range. My brother’s D7000 is lacking in that regard as well. I’d prefer a cheap FF, and cheap is the keyword, with usable ISO in the 2k-3k range, just like current A7 and A7r.
MFT might be your best bet. You could probably buy a used Em-5 and a long lens for the price of whatever Sony will release.
The current long range lenses for mFT are both slow and pretty average { I have a couple of them } .Unless you are talking about using adapted Olympus FT lenses which while excellent performers are both huge and very expensive
Not sure what all the APS-C moaning is all about?? It’s like moaning for the sake of moaning… The A6000 is a far superior camera any NEX. The A7 and future variants can happily shoot your lenses in a cropped mode. Embrace to future and get over it!…
Alright Stan, Melvis, BobTB. Here you go. Two pictures- I have noise tests but this was a DOF comparison I did. Well, the first one is the 50mm zeiss at 3.5 and the other is the Olympus 45mm at 1.8. Both were shot at 100 ISO RAW Auto white balance.
I’m not sure what you’re trying to show here, Olympus’s equivalent focal length of 90mm?
For DOF comparison you need a 24mm 1.8 lens to match that 3.5 Zeiss. Otherwise you have to increase your focus distance to be twice of the A900. Sorry, there is nothing to compare here, whatsoever.
Equivalent focal length of 90..yes…but still a 45mm with the bokeh of a 45mm not a 90mm. I think it’s a fair comparison. What am I trying to show…Well, I have lots of other comparisons (and honestly these aren’t the best) but my point is I think bokeh is subjective. I also think the fact that the Olympus can give that much separation is pretty dang impressive. Anyway, its not every day you see both lenses like these put side by side. Maybe I’ll do some better shots this weekend.
Actually no, a bokeh is of a 90mm lens, not a 45. DOF changes with focal length equivalency, arpeture, sensor size and distance to the subject.
No, DoF is only a function of physical focal length, aperture and subject distance. A lens that isn’t attached to a camera still has a DoF.
However, if you change sensor size, and still want the same angle of view, then you have to change the focal length, thereby changing DoF. So sensor size only affects DoF indirectly, by forcing you to change focal length to maintain angle of view.
You just said exactly what I said, only in different words… Focal length equivalency = angle of view. This affects perspective. Perspective affects the smoothness of differential focus. Sensor size, affects angle of view of any given lens, again, focal length equivalency. At the same f-stop, a 50mm lens at 50ft and 100mm lens at 100ft would give you the same framing, and the same depth of field. Perspective will be different though and it will be harder to judge the out of focus quality. Thats why I was telling THKPIC to use a focal length equivalent to 24mm on Olympus. Cause that pretty much equals to a 50 on a FF.
Ok, here is a noise comparison between the a900 and the EP5. Yeah, the picture sucks but I’m doing this on the fly! Both shot JPEG. First is a900 and second is EP5 both at 3200ISO.
So are you trying to show bad JPEG processing of A900?
I don’t mean to be critical of your test, but JPEG isn’t exactly a really good way to compare. What I see from your pictures is that at 3200 A900 is almost unusable, while Olympus is perfect? So why the heck are you still using A900 then?
No, not trying to show anything really. I use the a900 because its awesome. A little luminance in PP and those files pop. Plus, as you stated they are JPEG. The raw files do show less noise but this was a JPEG comparison.
The A900 is coming up on 6yrs old that is getting on in digital terms. To compare a camera to another download a controlled RAW file Focus Numerique do the best here with consistent lighting and exposure for each image turn off the default NR in ACR an voila you can see just how good or bad they are . Olympus mess with their claimed ISO all the time on the Ep5 the in camera 3200 ISO achieves a score of just 1550 iso while the A900 at an in camera setting of 3200ISO is measuring at 2390.
The A900 at 1600ISO in camera is just narrowly behind the score of the EP5 at its in camera 3200 ISO setting.
Yes, I do stand corrected as I figured this out last night. The above images aren’t equal as I didn’t realize the A900 has the NR turned off while the Oly had it turned on. Well, you learn something every day. However, the actual files between the two with noise reduction both off were still fairly close. Also, I didn’t see a lot of difference on the a900 between JPEG and RAW file noise- different type of grain but similar noise levels.
I am glad to hear it. I would love more high quality lenses in E-Mount most of all.
I tire of this nonsense where we have folks reading into everything about Sony’s camera business to include releases of A-mount products. I have yet to see any evidence from Sony, anything whatsoever that Sony plans to release another A-mount camera. When they say they are moving to phase two, which is alleged to be higher end cameras, why does there have to be an assumption that it includes the A-mount.
Also, Sony’s statement that they will continue to support A-mount certainly does not mean they will release new cameras. Support is often tied to products released. I understand that Sony suffers terribly in the support of older cameras (slight older) but that should be no reason to believe support means new cameras.
“Sony said A6000′s 24.3MP sensor is a newly designed sensor. On-chip design is applied on this sensor as that of A7 and A7r, which gives about 20% increase in sensitivity over NEX-7′s sensor.”
That is all ok and known, now take this bloody sensor and make a camera to replace NEX-7 in a way that we can call it a replacement for NEX-7, not any NEX-6 copy like a6000.
And nexxt Year we make it…and belive me the year after it it will be
and yes we hear a rumor that… NO NOTHING NO SONY CAM BUY!!!
the only Cam i think is the Fs-700, but this is a 7000,-$ machine.
Down you also can pull your money to garbage ore burn it.
SONY thinks in old MARKETING and think that people are idiots.
The ony thing that happended is, taht now i have the money and buy
new CINERAW MINI 4K becaus it does, what others only preacha.
MY MONY IS MINE AND GOES ONLY IF IT IT IS WORTH.
SONY should kill its departement and restart fast with r7 low price cams.
only full sebnsor and with good first lense in one , down 699,-$
if not others can.
we have 2014 not 1414…
Exactly. Spot on.
There was this “the year of A-Mount post”, now this “Sony targets high-end market” post, and a lot of “a huge surprise is coming” posts, but 0 cameras and 0 lenses to justify that so far. Not even a roadmap or an announcement, let alone a product of the shelf.
Release the A99mkII , if you go A-Mount.
Or the 24-70 f/2.8 FE, if you go E-Mount.
But come on, Sony, do something already!
Sony we need affordable FE mount lenses. Your mirrorless bodies are affordable and provide immense bang for buck, which has driven many consumers away from DSLRs to feature driven MILCs.
The next step is to produce high quality FE lenses that are attainable for the mass of consumers. Lenses in the price range between 150-400 dollars. Canon has wonderful lenses like the 40 2.8 pancake for less than 200 and nikon the 35mm and 50mm 1.8g for around 220. Sony doesnt need to produce 200 dollar lenses that perform like zeiss counterparts, but at least match the performance of these budget modern lenses from Nikon and Canon.
This is the last step in taking down the two beasts (canon and nikon).