Canon 120 Megapixel FF prototype could be launched in 2017.
Amateur Photographer interviewed Kimio Maki from Sony. As you know Canon recently did show a new 120MP Canon DSLR prototype with the target to go on sale in 2017. Asked about the High megapixel future of Sony Kimio Maki answered:
“If the customer needs 100-million pixels, if the customer needs more than 100-million pixels, we will create such kind of a product. Right now we don’t get a strong demand from the customers for this.”
I certainly do not need 120MP but maybe you do?
[poll id=”240″]
177 Responses
Voted yes just to see the world burn.
43 MP are already stupid.
its for the gear freaks .. but it has no real value for 99% of all a7R 2 customers.
the camera is lacking in too many aspects to be a PROFESSIONAL tool.
and amateurs don´t need 43MP.. don´t kid yourself.
show me your livingrooms where you have your big prints or shut up. 🙂
And what about creating such kind of product like fast FE LENSES above 90mm ? Or such kind of product like A-Mount CAMERAS for such kind of 10 years SONY CUSTOMERS ? …..
If it works well with on sensor HDR, why not?
only if medium format size sensor
The resolution debate has been going on since digital cameras came out.
Interestingly during the film era no one ever. Questioned if we needed finer grain, higher resolution film…they always wanted it.
I rememberwhen 3mp came out there were lots of people complaining who needs more mp.
Not because they dont want more but because itf everyone has more they will be compeled to have more too.
When higher res..such as 100+ mp comes out
Admin….you talk here about 100mp+ sensor
It is important to also let your readers know about Quanta image sensor to put this into proper perspective.
Currently Petapixel, ImageSensor WorldBlogspot and others are posting articles about it.
The recent Petapixel article is very clearly written and easy to understand.
It is a bit unfair to ask for a vote on high resolution without also showing what the potential for high resolution is.
I doubt one will be able to hand-shoot anything sharp with longer lens at 120+Mp FF.
Many camera camera support methots are available that will allow that.
For example a flag carrier …such as used in parades. .put the base of a monopod in it to support your camera with long lens.
Lensmaster…a british company makes an EXCELLENT compact lightwieght , inexpensive gimbol specifically for a monopod.
Want a little more stability…Monfrotto. makes an inexpensive plastic compact shoulder brace that will fit between your monopod and gimbol.
Even more support…lean your back aganst a solid object like a tree…support camera with both hands lock your elbows into your ribs, and hold your breath for an instant while gently depressing shutter button.
Always shoot at least burst of 3 shots and do not use the first or last shot.
This will..with a little practice..consistently produce tripod-like results handheld with ling lenses.
Also available is the Cotton Carrier stabilization system….this will work similar to my monopod technique but has less weight capacity….abought 6 lb max
Teddybear..I often get comments such as yours…I know long lenses such as 600mm or longer can be handheld with excellent results because I do it all the time…but it requires practice and good technique.
I have posted another response to you with some of the methods I use, I hope they will be usefull to you.
If you try some of these methods without success…the tripod is an excellent tool.
Seems you didn’t understand what I’m talking about, Resolution grows, pixel size gets smaller, every micro handshake becomes more and more visible – no matter how stable your hands are, you need shorter and shorter exposures to compensate for your shaking hands. You don’t even need 600mm – you’ll feel it on nearly every lens you’ve got. Plus you’ll have a diffraction-limited sensor right off the bat on the /4 zooms.
I know exactly what you are talking about and I have told you how to get the results you want.
Now would you rather try to convince me it can’t be done or just do it.
Here’s a clue….”I DO IT ALL THE TIME WITH EXCELLENT RESULTS”
So you will find it much easier to get excellent results yourself with my advice than convincing me it can’t be done.
I am however quite certain you can convince yourself it can’t be done.
You do what all the time with excellent results? Shooting @600mm @120Mpix? Obviously you’ve got no clue what is this about.
You indicated a lack of ability to take good pictures wth a long lens , handheld on a high resolution camera.
To do this takes a degree of skill and practicr bit it can be done.
I have shared with you some of my techniqies for doing so to be helpfull.
Yhe proper response should be” thank you I will try that”
Instead you react to me with hostility and demand proof of my worthiness to advise you.
Therefore I revise my advice to you to something more appropriate to your attitude
Go f___ yourself…!!!
All true, some people want higher resolution, they want to print bigger e.g.
But not everyone wants that. E.g. I want bigger sensors, bigger lenses, medium or large format sensors. For different purposes. I don’t need more pixels. I want 44x33mm2 sensors not because they can cram more pixels into it. Heck I want 56x56mm2 and use the old Zeiss lenses. Or bigger. If you can give me an 56×56 12mp sensor over a 36×24 120mp, I’d chose the first one every day!
I answered YES… but we will need 10 to 20 Tb SSD Hard drives, 1 Tb very fast memory cards and Quantum processors on our Mac/Pc !!
I need 100Mpixels mirrorless camera with ISO100k usable
I, Sony’s consumer, need a camera with a fullsize body, you will “create” this kind of product?
First of all we need a successor of the A99. And we need it now!!!!
I dont know why, but this photo makes me angry.
Sure it is important to be a pioneer for new technical achievements.
Although I don’t believe that Canon’s release indication is reasonable for a capable 120MP product, 2017 would be unclever timing.
Where and how to store the data?
Interesting that no one asks the questions why almost every SD compatible device does only support UHS-I, or why are UHS-II cards certified at a maximun of 30 MB/s write speed guaranteed.
Simply because neither the memory manufacturers nor the camera/electronic device manufacturers can handle the necessary heat dissipation.
First, there is a typo : Canon 120mm…Shouldn’t that be Canon 120mp?
As to ‘needing’ high megapixel count, that is the wrong question.
It simply comes down to what is offered, for how much, and the consequences.
If a manufacturer sold a camera, such as the Canon 120mp touted, for the same price as the A7Rii for example, which gave greater resolution while all other aspects of performance remained the same, providing there was no issue with file handling and storage people would certainly want one.
However, the simple fact is we are getting to a point of diminishing returns. Making such a ‘monster’ will likely be expensive, the files WILL cause processing and storage issues, diffraction rears its head in a big way, and the benefits seen at the final point will be marginal if even visible at all.
It’s likely there will be a few select people who could make good use of such things, but I can’t see the economics that would make it justifiable.
Quanta Image Sensor (QIS). (Gigapixel Sensor)
,, In the QIS, the goal is to count every photon that strikes the image sensor, and to provide resolution of 1 billion or more specialized photoelements (called jots) per sensor”
http://engineering.dartmouth.edu/research/advanced-image-sensors-and-camera-systems/
I have been talking about this for a while now…petapixel also posted an article about it.
Many people are not aware of the potential of technology such as this, and when asked about higher res say they dont want it.
I belive the need is there, and like many products people do not think they want it until they see it…then they will want it.
With Quanta sensor you can basically choose any combination of resolution, iso, dynamic range and shutter speed you you want.
The sensor records everything, and the processor simply discards the extra data.
I hope the new technology like QIS, Quantumfilm Sensor, APCS or the Graphene Sensor find a way in photo/ video cameras for consumers.
Quantum thin film is a process that can be easily incorporated into current CMOS proceess with the addition of new facilites…it is a process similar to electroplating.
Sony is known to be involved in this technology ang they are building new manufacturing capability.
Another promising Sensor technology is Black Silicone. ..this is very differrent from CMOS production therefore I would not expect established sensor manufacturers to adopt it
Graphene share many advantages with QTF so I doubt we will see both technologies developed….since Sony has a current interest in quantum thin film I strongly suspect that is the technology of choice.
If you have been following the news you are probably aware that Sony has acquired Softkinetic, best known for Time of Flght ToF cameras, and has sighned a licensing agreement with Melexis to combine ToF with Sony CIS tec and advanced gesture recognition software.
ToF is a non-scaning ranging system utilizin a laser or led pulse to illuminate the subject….range is simultaneously determined at all picel locations based on the speed of light…currently manufacture version is 15mp and 600 fps.
Advanced gesture recognition will allow a driver to communicate with a vehicle by gesture rather that touchscreen or voice.
Sony CIS adds
Stacked TSV process flow
RGBW filter array
And Back DTI for pixel isolation.
This is current tech and will be manufactured in Sony wafer manufacturing facilities.
With driverless cars on the way this technology will be big …I am no certain what impact it will have on photography though.
Thank for your more in-depth information!
Yes I read that Sony has interest in Quantumfilm technology. But I found nothing about a interest from Sony in Graphene. Only Samsung has a patent from a image sensor from this.
Yes possibly because the quantumfilm often to be mentioned in the same breath with graphene, both comes in feature products from Sony.
Since we know Sony is involved in Quantum Thin Film is is unlikely they will also be developing a graphene sensor.
The two technologies seem to hve simolar advantages and to develope both would be redundant.
Sony has recently heavily invested in new manufacturing capacity and shortly before that commited to development of QTF
So I suspect actual production of QTF products to already be underway.
We also know that Sony CIS sensors currently in use in I phones have rgdw pixel array, so it would surprise me if the next a6xxx or a7000 camera does not have rgbw.
I would also guess 42mp will be chosen for the same reason it was chosen for ff,
Iso, dynamic range etc should be comparable to a7rii but readout should be faster so I would guess around 12 fps burst speed.
Autofocus should be better…because af is always being improved.
This would,..if scaled to ff…result in a 100mp ff camera perfect to compete with the new Canon 120mp camera.
I therfore expect Sony to build a 100mp camera comparable in performance to the a7rii with rgbw pixel array, and back dti for pixel isolation.
I am hoping for a new 300-600 f4.8 lens with 150mm barrel extender…for close up/macro mode and drop in dedicated 1.8x tc.
Do you think about possibly intend to buy the 120MP or the 250MP camera?
Canon just demonstrated thier 250mp sensor with a new technology desighned to eliminatethe atmospheric turbulence assocoated with long lenses at long distances…very impressive, but the dynamic range appeared very lacking.
It is too soon for me to decide…I got my apetite wet with the 120mp and now they are trying to tempt me with 250mp.
I will need to know more than just the megapixel count, and I am sure whatever Canon makes Sony will make a competing product.
I would buy the 42mp apsc.
I would also want a super high mp ff but will need to know more to drcide which one.
Also relevent is what new lenses will be available.
You also not buy the a7rII?
I have the a7rii
Got it the first day it shiped
🙂
Well, 100mp FF its like the same pixel size that Nikon 1 sensors, so anything above F4 will be diffraction limited.
Now, take in consideration that canon also developed a 240mp APSC and then, you are about 600mp FF, with pixel size like smartphones, that’s anything above F1.4 diffraction limited.
While photons are really small, we are approaching wave length size, that’s a physical limit.
And then you had optics physical limits, its well know that the size of the front element plus aperture, its what give you more resolution, thats the reason why modern high resolution lenses are bigger, I’m looking at you Zeiss otus.
The fact its that sensors in smart phones are better than anything you can buy with canikon right now, they simple had better technology.
The reason why you get so bad pictures its because the toy lenses they had.
When canon released the 50mp DSLRs, people releazid how bad are most of their lenses, only the latest will get you high resolution pictures.
The more clear problem this new camera show from old lenses, was CA, see CA its mesaured in every lenses test, just that before it was smaller that the size of pixels, now that pixels are smaller, it will show up when older DSLR with bigger pixels won’t show up, but now you will get CA plagued pictures, just like compact cameras always had because of their tiny pixels.
Diffraction, ISO, data processing, are sure problems that will be escalated, just like small sensors compacts always had.
When Sony last year say they will release the ultimate sensitive and ultimate resolution camera.
Sure canon wet their pants, that’s why they rushed this high resolution camera, and the so cheap full HD ff camera that can record 4milion Iso, lol
Of course Sony knows better, they know nobody will be buying full HD in a few years, only 4k, ceartanly they know no pro will settle for full HD today, also they released the 42mp, because its the minimum to get full sensor ff 8k and because its the smaller pixel size you can go (maximum mp you can get) while still not diffraction limited at F8, anything with more megapixels in ff will get smushy (like compact and smart phones cameras) pictures at the trusty f8
Canikon are clueless, that’s why samsung will buy Nikon before 2020, and canon will follow Olympus fate.
Re diffraction. it’s limited thinking based on technology of yesterday. But I agree Canon lenses are very average – poor.
I’m excited by 100MP+ cameras. I’ve used 80 and it’s simply amazing.
Umm, no. The modern canon zooms and their telephotos don’t have any peers. Many of their standard lenses are also about as good as anything else out there with a couple of exceptions. I’m not a canon fan boy, having recently switched over from canon to the sony a7r II. Some of the zeiss lenses are aat least as good or better, but that amounts to a limited selection in comparison. However, I will say that I doubt very many lenses out there will fully resolve 100MP+ sensors.
Sony the statement is to impressive. …
How many customers must interests for a new product before a new product goes in planing, testing, manufacture and finally in selling?
This is what I like about Sony. They speak with their customers and communicate such things as possibilities, they deliver on things which are being requested like lossless compression. Most of the the other companies keep their customers in the dark. If I’m going to spend a lot of money on a system, I want to know that the investment is going to be something I can build upon in the future, even better is to find out WHEN such developments will occur so I don’t have to look elsewhere when I need something more.
Really? I think the A-Mount crowd is way louder than for example the 14-bit RAW crowd… and who did Sony listen to?
When it comes to 14-bit RAW, Sony listened to dpreview actually.
Adding an option for uncompressed RAW is a minor firmware fix, not comparable to making a complete camera.
When Canon dropped the FD-mount, there was a loud FD-mount crowd.
When Olympus dropped the four thirds mount, there was a loud four thirds crowd.
Why listen to the crowd if their request is to invest in dead technology???
A-mount crowd no longer exists in reality. It has been getting more and more scarce for a while now. Yes, there are still many, but I would not call it “crowd” anymore.
Sony has been listening to long term mirrorless users that understand the pitfalls more than most. They even comment on here sometimes.
Sony has officially said there are no new a mount cameras planned. I think the group that wants them is small.
I think Sony can only hear where the money is going~
Canon executives are getting delusional. What a sad sad story …
The man got his own reasons…
Canon fanboys have been touting this as Canon ‘innovation’. Wow! More MP, woot, look how innovative Canon are! If Sony made a FF version of the sensor in the RX100 it will crush all their little spirits and they could do it right now (for a price) if they saw a market need for such a thing.
While Canon may very well release this thing in that time frame I can guarantee it will be a high priced niche product sold to industry mostly and as a way of saying ‘look what we can do’ much like their 1,000,000 ISO camera or whatever it is.
Good for you to be on the winning side. I think it will be a niche product for most and not many lenses are diffraction limited at f2.8-f4 to make full use of the resolution.
Haha it’s not about sides, just think it’s funny that Canon fans think this is somehow Canon (only) innovation.
I find this brand fanboyism quite ridiculous.
Sure, you can be a fan of a great product, your favorite tool. But why does that brand have to become exclusive? You somehow can’t have a Sony and a Canon tool in your toolbox? I don’t get the rivalry except if people have buyers remorse and are in denial. Like crop sensor advocates but then brand advocates. Hahaha.
100mpx would be fine but with a dynamic range of 12 and floor noise of the 5DS no thank you.
Although the interest for a 120MP Sensor or 250MP Sensor is not high. I estimate both comes! I see test Videos from Canon with the 250MP and the progress is detailed progressed.
The Ultra High MP Cameras are a niche product with a very high price for customers who need / want this. And for special uses like military, astronomy etc.
I wont buy stuff like that, cause i would prefer the incredible high-iso performance of the a7s(ii) over the high megapixels. I usually dont crop and dont downscale my pictures…. And i would love to take movies in 4k in near darkness 🙂
There might be some market for 100+ MP sensors, probably industrial.
But there definitely is a market for a new professional Sony body. The FE mount is gathering some impressive glass (e.g. 35/1.4 Distagon and 25/2 Batis). It’s time to provide a body with some basic essential features: dual card slots, faster AF (see Olympus/Panasonic), proper flash system, etc…
Yes, dual card slots and good AF in all circumstances, and I will add better battery life, better zoom lens, and better lens quality control. If Sony gives us this they can convince a lot of professionals…
Big brother is watching. A 1,8 Gigapixel camera in use:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGxNyaXfJsA
That’s pretty creepy.
And just to remind, Canon had that 4mil ISO prototype early, but Sony was the one that made it possible for consumers.
It makes me mad that marketing works and people are still looking at the MPs. This is what manufacturers want because this is an area where “improved” product can be thrown on the marked every year. But photographers should actually buy a new sensor if it improves the *dynamic range*. This is much more difficult to achieve, so companies are not interested in photographers waiting for improvement here.
Sony sensors achieved superior DR over Canons quite time ago, but it doesn’t seem having made any major effect on marketshare xD
The difference has been and remains marginal. MP doubles every three years or so, and DR?
I have a solution for you. Just measure megapixel improvements in stops, not absolute values, so it’ll be comparable to DR improvements this way.
DR at low ISO is about 3 stops between D810 and 5Dmark III. It is really relevant because it is in range where it can be useful, further improvements will be even less useful. What are you going to use high DR camera for?
I think one thing people love photography is because it could capture so many details in very short time, some of the details we didn’t even notice while press the shutter, and a picture is something we have the entire life time to look back
So you see, bigger print is not the only reason for higher megapixel camera, sometimes people just enjoy zoom in a lot to find back the details they missed in life, to have a second chance appreciate what they once were
and I think a good picture is like a secret garden with infinitive mysteries, no matter how many times you looked, you can always find something new about it
Only if they will ‘need’ it.
As there is no real need, just ‘want’… I’m taking they’ll won’t jump on this too soon.
If you complain that lenses don’t resolve ..erm something… read this: http://vgrin.host56.com/photo/articles/pixels/index.htm
So what’s your conclusion? Please explain.
skip to the pic at the bottom if you’re too lazy to read all of this
With such a resolution we would need capable lenses, and also the right discipline to take a perfect shot. (No, not interested in such a camera, I don’t need it, and I usually don’t crop photos)
You saying you neither have the lenses nor the discipline?
I’m (almost) sure you can understand what I wrote. 😉
So you saying that along with your discipline and the lenses, you also lack the certainty to tell a serious sentence from a joke? 😉
36 Mpx, 42Mpx, 50 Mpx, 100, 120, 250…
Considering that 99.9999% of the time, the pictures are only viewed on monitors, TVs, on web or postcard-sized print, and are downscaled for these purposes, I don’t see all that need for such high Mpx.
Secondly, if Sony want to quickly provide a means of high resolution, they could implement the same sensor-shift as Hasselblad, Olympus and Pentax – Olympus EM5m2’s implementation yields 4× the raw Mpx count and 2.5× for jpg, from 8 shots. If they implement a faster, hand-holdable alternative of 4 shots basically de-moiréd 2x resolution raw, the 42 Mpx A7r2 could get 84 Mpx.
“… only viewed on monitors…” ?? only ??? The iMac 5K has already 15Mpx and this is just the beginning of a future where resolution independent software makes high resolution screens widespread. In a not so distant future we will have huge TV sets with 30, 60Mpx or more.
Seriously, you don’t need a crystal ball to see what’s coming.
Canon 120mp sensor…….12 stops of DR….capped at ISO1600
When you have higher res monitors (lets say we get to 300ppi) in the future and we get to have excellent DR (approaching either negative film or black and white film) then we can think of more MP.
Problem is, it is easier to sell MP than DR because most consumers do not ever work their images and most shoot jpg to keep as is.
Who knows, maybe “professional” gear will be aimed at DR, noise management and MP balance while “amateur/consumer” stuff can be just focused on MP to sell to the masses.
So, my suggestion is that we concern ourselves with improving the image quality of the MP we have today (42 is great and I’ve been working with 21-24 for the past 5 years and it’s all good) I don’t know what tech is in their labs. Why don’t we bring something new to the table that most of us haven’t seen yet.
Also, more R+D in UX for cameras would be welcome from Sony. Mirrorless as a form factor needs a bit more polishing in that area.
There may be an interest for a 120mpix camera in the future, but first a few developments need to happen:
– Higher performance computers and cheaper storage – very likely.
– Displays that can utilize the much higher resolution. (4K is good enough for 42mpix?) – possibly
– Printer technology develop to utilize 120 mpix resolution – not very likely
– Sensor/processor technology and program code developed to allow not just higher resolution but also better dynamic range, color space and low light performance (not just more resolution is not enough). – likely
Photographers need to only to be rich, lots time in the gym training to be able to carry around camera and lenses required 🙂 (The Otus 28/1.4 is 1.4kg, imagine a future Otus 21/1.4 120mpix version weight and size…. To be fitted on a tank replacing the gun. A good thought in many aspects, but not very practiclal.)
We need faster prime lenses! A prime portrait lens. A prime landscape lens.
I’d be happy with UHS-II in my A7rII, can’t imagine how slow 100mp would be writing to the card.
it writes at around 35mb per second i think?
Aside from UI issues and a few small usability frustrations, the most annoying thing is how slow the A7rII writes to the card. Fire a short burst of 3-4 shots and be prepared to wait to review your shots. Even one shot takes a couple seconds to review.
You are correct.
im not sure they listen to their customers, might of lucked into a7 success, things like the hotshoe, abandoning half or more of their customers, stupid record button placement on the a7 series etc etc.
however you feel about baby darling e mount can do no wrong, they have thrown away a decent portion of dslr market through inaction and stupidity
Sony has been listening to a few long term e mount users. Not directly though. But not mr high megapixel as deluded as he is.
The record button itself is stupid, not it’s placement.
Why wouldn’t you want a dedicated record button?
Every camera has a shutter release button for this, which has already (hopefully) the ergonomically best placement. Since the ergonomically best place is already occupied, the superfluous record button will always end up in awkward places.
But the stupidest thing is, that the record button allows (always accidental) recording during stills mode. The record button is as useful as a second a*shole on the elbow.
You may think different, but thats my take on the record button.
How will you be able to take Still shots while the Camera is recording videos then?
Do you simply hate the capability of doing this?
“hate” is the wrong word.
See, the world isn’t just black and white. There are pros and cons, they can be important or not etc.. But when the list of cons is way longer than the list of pros (is there any other pro than taking pictures during video?), I just tend to call that thing bullsh*t. You know, what I mean?
I just don’t like the record button.
I don’t see why one wouldn’t take a Still image while recording. Given the right chance, given the right moment, it’s better to do it than not to do it due to…whatever reasons you have.
I never, I repeat: NEVER, took a single still image during video. When I do video, than I do video. I concentrate on the video. Taking still images is a totally different process for me.
During video, the record button is at the wrong place.
During stills shooting, the accidentally pressed record button gets on my nerves. (Yes, I know I can deactivate it, but this makes that stupid thing not better)
Is it really that hard to understand that I don’t like that thing?
You like it? No problemo. 🙂
So you know that it can be deactivated. And you know that it can be reassigned to a different location. What other reasons do you have, other than insisting on losing a feature, and insisting on missing potential moments?
Please have mercy. I’m just a human being.
This thing just gets on my nerves. Period. People are different. Some hate spiders, some, like me, love spiders (no joke) and dont’t like that damn movie record button. I can’t help, thats the way it is.
For photo, who needs 100MP or more other than security services or Deckard in Blade Runner.. Like who needs 14EV or more … as actually there is no way to watch 100Mp with 14EV on any hardware and even 90% of the final pothos are converted from to jpg just limited to 8EV.. and best “out of price” monitors are 10EVmax .. People who just enjoy photos and flashy whith washed colours can really get bests pictures from RAW with 1OEV and 24MP postprocessed to 8EV and 4K downsampled.
You seem to have quite some misunderstanding.
You need the dynamic range capabilities not for displaying the files 1:1 on your monitor. You need it because the dynamic range of the subject (AKA the real world in front of you) can have way more latitude than 14EV. The lower latitude of your monitor, or, even worse, your printer is the reason why you have to compress the higher latitude captured with your camera. To do so (capturing that latitude of nature) you need a sensor with high dynamic range capabilities (ideally more than 14EV).
To learn more about this, understanding the zone system (by Ansel Adams) is the best way to start.
I do not need 100MP. Most people don’t. But as long as we use Bayer sensors that basically need 4 pixels for one pixel full color information, a 100MP sensor would be equivalent to a 25MP Foveon-style sensor (if your camera would not upsample the Bayer output). Sounds not that much anymore, right? And secondly, the future lays in resolution independent display devices. Apples retina displays are just the beginning. There is no doubt that we will need more resolution in the future.
Obviously not you
LOL. Just because you can’t display 14EV doesn’t mean that you don’t need to capture it. The tone level is maped to the displaying latitude (or to a smaller one).
You transfom the captured information into the small contrast ratio. Displays or rendering formats (JPEG) aren’t defining the needed DR…it’s just your scene.
100MP would be fine, if they would implement some pixel-binning on the hardware level, so that one can switch between 100MP and 25MP (100MP/4 = 25MP) modes.
But better make it 128MP, forward looking to 8K (which is 32MP and 32MP times 4 is 128MP).
Photos of my cat will be so detailed!
You will see the fleas she has. O_O
cameras , sensors, …..lenses is what is important for PRO photographers ::
not 6 bodies in 2 years!!
where is the 85 mm sony original G lense, please no answers for Zeiss Batis, great lenses but orginial Sony lenses…promised for weeks, where is a 135 mm 1.8 or 2.8in FE mount, a wireless commuting speedlight , a 16 mm prime lense, 20 mm prime lense, a 24-70 2.8 pro bread and butter lense, a PRO A9 body with 2 Sd card slots is really missing , USB 3.0 not dinosaurir USB 2.0 for this big files , a pancake 40 mm lense, a 70-200 2.8 lense, 200mm 2.8 lense, 16-35 2.8 and so on….. after 2,5 years even some of this goodies could be launched . I have a Sony A7 and A7R from the first hour…. is the system for Pro use or for amateurs whats the direction of sony. more support with profoto air remote system for B1 HSS, TTL. ……
I love the system but its somehow hard to understand the roadmap, oh no problem I’M a happy betatester since the first hour and love the system but please sony hurry up with the triple for pros 16-35 2.8,24-70 2.8, 70-200 2.8
I’d like to pixel peep a Sony that can unequivocally best the D810 (in good light) first, then you can worry about ramping up the Mp
I’ve seen some tests that show the a7rii bests the Nikon above iso 800, where it’s pretty much equivalent. Is that not significant? But, I think a part of your point relates to the fact that it takes more than megapixels to make a good sensor – and there are grounds to suspect that a 120 Mp camera will be deficient in other ways.
I wonder how Canon is doing with the 5dsr? Now that they’re winning the megapixel war, are they harvesting the (or some) spoils? Is 50 megapixels a number that will get its users to dump the 5dmkiii, or will they older camera stay in use because the video is better in the old cam (correct me if I’m wrong here)? Would a 120 mp monster do video at all? Then, there’s the matter of cost recovery – would Canon produce a new camera that would undercut the 5dsr, when the latter is only new to the market? IMHO, the 120 mp camera would only come out as an act of desperation, to try to infuse some excitement back into their dslr sales. Comments???
I think you can expect 4-5 years of life cycle before the 50Mp is replaced by an actual commercial product.
Since 2012, Nikon hasn’t been able to find a replacement for their D800 sensor yet.
One factor in favor of Sony getting into higher Mp cameras is that the pixels will get smaller, and benefit more from BSI technology. Also stacking the sensor and putting processors on the backside too will increase speed of throughput. I’d say that the teck that would make huge Mp cameras feasible has alreaady been developed. Now, it’s a waiting game to see what the competition does – but of course development will likely progress so that Sony doesn’t get caught too far behind, if they don’t again decide to take the lead.
It took Sony 3 years to make a better sensor than the D800 sensor. It will take a similar time frame for them to overcome the current 42 Mp camera, which is already better than Canon’s 50 Mp sensor.
So I don’t know where you have teise unrealistic expectations from.
Making a sensor that surpassed the 36 Mp sensor was very hard.
Making a sensor that will surpass the 42 Mp BSI sensor will be even harder.
The 1″ sensor in the Rx1mkII and Rx100mvi, already has the pixel density and stacked construction. So, based on the fact that they only have to ramp up the size, not quality or construction of the sensor, I’d say they can produce a super high resolution full frame sensor with pretty decent dynamic range and also have the speed to handle the large files. The basic technology is already mastered, and waiting for further implementation.
The 1 inch sensor has completely different circumstances for its production. Let’s take an example where you produce a wafer, and your process gets 20 significant errors.
These 20 errors could destroy up to 20 out of 513 sensors in the 1 inch wafer.
These same 20 errors could destroy 20 out of 57 sensors in the Full Frame wafer.
So you have to understand it’s not just about the capability. It’s also about the manufacturing efficiency. If you can only prduce 4 healthy Sensors out of a whole wafer, your cameras will have to cost 20 000 Dollars each. And nobody wants that to happen.
So they wait until they mastered the manufacturing.
>these 20 errors
So? Megapixel counts don’t appear in these figures.
There is a completely natural assumption that the current 42 Mp sensor require a more advanced process than that 36 Mp sensor, which required 180nm process.
By the same logic, Sony may have to need a completely new process for its next generation sensor.
Yes I would be interested in a +100MP, and it could be done now, by upscale the sensor from the RX100 iv and you would have a sensor well over 100MP.
I for one would have great use for such a camera for my fine art work. I print large and a lot of other photographers who produce large prints would also love such a camera. If one can’t think of a reason why one would need such a camera than it has no use for you. Different raw file size options would be vital as such a resolution may not be necessary for say some commercial work for example. ISO would probably be more limited at such high a resolution but if there was an ability to shoot a smaller raw option and gain iso that would be fab. Something like Phase One do on their IQ backs. That way you can balance it out depending on the subject matter, lighting, time of day etc. Lenses would need some catching up to get full bang for your buck in terms of image quality. Of course such a high resolution would still result in an increase in detail over say a 50 or 42 megapixel camera even if the optics were not up to scratch.
The customer needs a new APS-C e-mount and a few good APS-C lenses…
Want vs Need. Man’s greed drives civilization forward~
Canon and Sony playing cards
Canon…I bet 50mp with and without aa filter
Sony…I raise you to 42mp with bsi and 12mp with half a million iso.
Canon I raise ypu to 2mp with 4 million iso and a 120 mp prototype
Sony…I will match your 100mp prototype if my customers wany it and raise you a 42mp ff with fixed 35mm lens and the best imsge quality ever
Canon…I raise that to 250mp prototype with 800mm lens and Turbulence elimination…
Nikon…Im out these stakes are too high for me
Moderator…it’s you bet Sony. 😀
Most of your Canon bets are all talk. You won’t get very far with all your decayed 500nm fabs.
This Is Getting Out Of Hand. MP Are Not The Only Thing That Create Good Pictures Lol
If it brings the same quality of image, bring it on! Customer has nothing to loss and bigger area to crop
– Super resolution mode (Like the E-M5II)
Customers need A-mount cameras, why didn’t they continue them?
Why do so many customers buy Canon and Nikon DSLR’s then? The reason for the death of A-Mount is that there are not enough customers. So, I have no idea what you are talking about.
a-mount is on life support but not dead. there is a reasonable demand for a-mount in western countries, but the much bigger asian market finds a-mount cameras too big.
That’s what I say, if there would be a “reasonable demand for a-mount”, like you say, then A-Mount wouldn’t be in danger.
Theres reasonable demand, pentax have done alot in recent years, with similfer market share , so its really a management choice, a stupid one really as even if it delayed other products, would that actually matter?, the worst that would of happened is a me too announcement about a7r2 to counter canon.
When I say “reasonable” then it is of course within the company context. So it meant reasonable demand compared to other product lines. A Sony management that would make decisions based on Pentax’ financial report would be really stupid.
Couldnt be simpler yet some people just somehow missed that point. Sony is in this like any company, to make money so if the A-mount was making money and E mount was not then we would be seeing the opposite of what its happening.
Get it people?
Look at the next post from “redfern”. Sounds pretty bad. 🙁
And will there be enough customers for a 100+ mp Sony camera? I think the poll results speak otherwise. Furthermore, don’t be surprised if Sony suddenly decides to ditch the E mount once you spent enough money on it.
Agreed, I also think there will be not enough customers for a 100+MP camera. Not yet. But soon there will.
Your second sentence reflects exactly the misunderstanding I was referring to.
Sony will not ditch E-Mount because you spent enough money on it. There is no “enough” money in a company. They will ditch it, if you spend NOT enough money (compared to other product lines, e.g. FE-Mount) on it.
People buy E-Mount because it is more affordable. Size and weight may also be factors, but the price/performance ratio is the most important.
Sonys E-Mount prices were very aggressive in the past. We like that. High value and a low price tag. A company (or better its shareholders) don’t like that. They like the opposite. Ditching E-Mount (or A-Mount) means, we paid NOT enough compared to FE-Mount customers.
BTW, I would be very surprised if they ditch E-Mount soon, because as far as I know, their E-Mount business is profitable.
Indeed. you are right.
Well I was just saying that seeing how Sony handled the A-mount case, it is not impossible for them to ditch the E-mount when it becomes unprofitable in the far future.
Sony’s decisions are based on customer needs? That’s definitely news! /s
I’m assuming this is for real? I’m suprised a rep. would say they have nothing planned when no one else has mentioned anything other than- we plan on supporting the system. I have to deal with this issue at some point.
Yeah, you can find it on their Sony UK Facebook page, under the “Visitor Posts” section. The original post is from Sept 24, and they only responded yesterday. I’m surprised, as well. Especially since they took so long to reply that the original post was already buried. Makes me wonder if they actually took that time to ask around before getting back to him with an answer.
Dammit, you know what this means.
Did it trouble you when they wrote that E 16/2.8 has good IQ typical to primes?
What do you think, they can’t base their decisions on single customer needs.
But, if this screenshoot is real, then it is (sad) breaking news. Clear words from Sony, that’s what the guy wanted.
Yeah, the writing is literally on the wall now.
@Admin: have you seen this?
@Admin: This is definitely SR5!
Probably not. What if it’s a new employee who doesn’t know much? Usually they respond that they have no information regarding future products and cannot comment on them.
Probably. But do you expect a new employee, who doesn’t know much, posting on Sony’s official facebook page?
Sony should be honest here. Because they know that people dont buy A-Mount gear anymore. So the best thing is to say that they have given up on A-Mount. Then people who sit on the fence can decide what kind of solution they are going for
I can bet that if he asked about 8 new e-mount lenses the answer would be the same.
For the love of Jebus- please let us know if they reply to you again.
I wasn’t the one who posted the original question. I just noticed it when going through their wall. But I’ll keep my eye on it. (Doubt they’ll respond again, though.)
They replied to someone else with an even clearer response that they checked and have no FF A-mount planned. If it was a mistake, would they make it twice?
Seems, this will be the last SR5 rumor towards A-Mount in history.
Sony is a big corporation where management have wet dreams about market dominance. So it’s no surprise that there will be no A99ii, I think they will release something like an A7Pro, a big beefy A7.
For astrophotography, the bigger the better (i.e., more detail, more sky coverage). The largest custom-built camera in use by professional astronomers has 1.4 Billion pixels. Even larger ones are under development.
Would like Sony improve the Dynamic range, BSI, noise suppression and keep megapixels maximum of 50mp. The storage HD is not keeping up to the pace of UHD Video, high res pixels and would we need to replace our lenses to resolve this resolution.
You could have already offered this feature. Multi-composite shot for A7RII. Get er done!
that was funny right there
I agree! Give us a software multi-shot upgrade now. And work on future products to compete Canon and Nikon.
Higher performance computers … coming soon
Displays that can utilize the much higher resolution … coming soon
Printer technology …. what??? You mean huge, ultra high res digital picture frames, right? (The “little” iMac 5K screen has already 15Mpx)
Sure we want better DR, but what has resolution to do with DR?
I hope our kids don’t know anymore what a tank is. (Just dreaming)
100 megapixels would be purr-fect for cat photos posted on the ‘net. Or you could print 8 foot x 12 foot cat portraits.
Unfortunately cats are DOF-limited. Sony would need to incorporate focus stacking or Lytro-like tech, preferably both.
It seems that true medium format is the real challenge to the market, we have yet to see a 645 sensor on the market.
Something like a RX645s with 55-90mm f/4.5-6.9 from Fuji would do the trick. Specially if the sensor is based on the A7s that would make the sensor about 32Mp.
i buy your product, when
-you improve battery life
-add 60GB ssd inside
-and ditch all the unnecessary old bulky ports.
Are you talking about the new MacBook or a camera? Sony ain’t Apple.
Unnecessary bulky ports? All of the few ports are necessary for the collective needs of users and add little bulk. Meanwhile a 60gb SSD is unnecessary considering how inexpensive 64gb SD cards sell for.
60GB was an example. 250 GB if you want, the speed of read and write data would improve significantly. Sony a7rII is slow, one of the reason I returned it. I did good as the price dropped 600 euros.
Adding an mSata SSD and the architecture to support it may expand the body quite a bit. It would have to have more of a benefit than simply improve read/write speeds because that can be accomplished with faster SD card slots / cards.
It could mitigate the need for a second SD card slot if used for redundancy. If Sony were to add a pre-roll recording feature for video, that could be cool (if you hit record you get the 30 seconds or whatever that precede hitting the record button).
Apple should design their camera. in couple of years SD cards will be gone. I do have more negatives about Sony a7XX that is why I will wait for the next generation and if not I’m just nor that rich to buy crap. (hope you forgive me 😉
If Apple designed it you would only get 64gb of storage and no memory card slot or USB.
I need whatever Sony tells me to need. Resistance is futile.
Nobody’s gonna care about mps after Leica SL comes out on Tue. Leica is the ISIS to the necks of the apostates of the photographic “industry”. Chop chop, Sony…
Folks…here it is! It’s official. Here are the 2017 A7RIIIIIII specs.
100MP
No dual card slots
Your welcome.
oh you are soooooooooooooooooooooooo clover….
Your making him blush…now he is Crimson and Clover.
I recently asked myself, what all these professional cinematographers do? They all record to one card or one SSD. They do not have any redundancy. Seems, that Hollywood is doomed without dual card or dual SSD recording.
Like uncompressed RAW, dual card slots are welcomed, but they are both overrated (mostly by amateurs, I guess).
Well, I am a professional who relies on dual card slots. I record medium jpegs on card 1 and either raw or largest jpegs on card 2. Throughout my shooting, I transmit selects from card 1 which appear on large screens for those I am photographing to view. These photos also get routed to a Dropbox folder so an associate can pull photos for press rushes and get them out to the client immediately. I do this at least twice a day.
Later I import the full size photos from card 2 and do not bother with card 1. Card 1 only get formatted about twice a month. However there have been a few instances over the years where the redundancy saved me because card 2 died / corrupted or Lightroom failed to import some photos. Card 1 covered my @ss.
Some of us need redundancy.
why would you need MF with only 32 mp? if for lowlight, it’s too slow lens. 1.5x zooms make little sense on digital, it’s better to have more mp and crop, when fixed lens delivers more sharpness than zoom one.
Low MP and slow lenses for cost and size, it could be smaller than a DSLR that way.
If I would have perfect lens which may resolve such resolution why not? Actually than more resolution of the sensor – than better. Same as dinamic range and sensitivity. And it is always possible to set the resolution you need in camera menu. But currently for JPEG only for Sony. Canon has sRaw modes since long ago. Sony also should! This is the main problem ).
Oh really, Sony do what customers needs? That is a new one?
I need A-mount pro camera, so will you do it Sony?
I do not need 100M pixels. I need to know if I can trust Sony to invest in their cameras. I want to use Sony for pro shootings. A7 series is too small, weak battery life, 1card slot, weak AF, small body with zero ergonomics for long shootings/big hands.
Sony please check out Nikon D3s, D4 (how many pixels they have? not more than 20M and those are PRO? yes they are!!!!!!!!!!)
Get back to us with something that compares, and then let’s talk seriously.
100M pixels? Another gadget?