Image courtesy: Camerasize.
One question you have is if the current E-mount can be paired with a much larger Full Frame sensor. One of my sources answer was clearly…YES! A reminder: Sony manager Toru Kotsumotu (Source: DC.watch) and David Kilpatrick (Source: Photoclubalpha) said that a FF sensor within an E-mount is possible. And if you look at the image on top (Courtesy: Camerasize) you can see that the E-mount can indeed fit an FF sensor inside the camera. For comparison just look at the M9 mount 🙂
UDPATE: This is an image made by Alphacorner (Thanks!)
That said I am working on the full details from the new Sony NEX FF strategy. All I can say is that you don’t have to expect a sort of FF NEX-7 to be launched now. If the rumors I am getting are correct there will be a “different” kind of camera first…Stay tuned on SAR!
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Something different. A close friend from our rumor websites started a small blog to tell her daily stories in Greece. If you are interested in these kind of stories check it out: www.greekdiaries.me (Good Luck!)
133 Responses
1st again…Nailed it!!
I can see this new hybrid camera being the ultimate walk around rangefinder especially adapting some nice Leica/canon FF lenses, particularly with the focus peaking feature. Now just add stabilisation and oh man…heaven!!!
Don’t tell me you can’t add IBIS into a small body…Olympus do in their much smaller m43 bodies!!
Are you on SAR 24 hours per day??? 🙂
yes…almost! 🙂
addicted to photography 🙁
Waiting for the perfect camera…which by the sounds of it is nearly here!!
Love SAR
go shooting instead bro
There is disease about gadget addicition…
Photographers usually shoot, cameras will always evolve, but any camera today can do the job.
I’ve been waiting for a small FF digital camera since 2008, and from the reaction of yesterdays rumor, I’m not the only one.:)
Enough NEX….. More a99 please 🙂
Soon they are the same thing. Alpha and Nex systems are about to become integrated.
You are my hero.
There’s no way it’ll be a rangefinder.
If you make a screenshot of that Camerasize page, select the Leica sensor and copy it over the e-mount, it shows that it should fit without mayor problems. Only the very inside ring in the Nex 7 should be ‘cut’ a little bit for the corners to fit, as is done in the Leica M9. The electronic connections at the bottom of the E-mount are not in the way. Try it yourself! 🙂
This is of course on condition that the images on the Camerasize are, from a size point of view, accurate…
They are!
They are not. The camera size (picture size) are different with A33, A55 and A37.
Can your source confirm that there will be new E mount lenses? Otherwise I see my buying more voigtlander lenses or Zeiss ZM lenses. In that case, it would just be a cheap Leica M, because I don’t see the point of using big SLR lenses in a NEX-like body when the point of the shorter flange distance and the mirrorless design is to allow for smaller, better corrected lenses (see biogons vs distagons in the distortion department)
I hope the FF NEX would not be treated like NEX, lack of lenses at launch, lack of lenses some years down the line, and only one Zeiss lens for a little while while they try and figure out that prime lenses make a system as successful as zoom lenses for soccer moms and that Joe six pack that Sarah Palin would have loved to nail.
Yes. I already wrote many times….three new lenses coming!!!
Three new lenses for FF NEX?
ops sorry, not for the FF NEX. For the APS-C NEX. I will have some info about the FF NEX lenses soon…
How can it be that you slap an SR5 sticker on every rumour these days, however unsubstantiated?
Becuase I am sure of it. In one month you will see if I am wrong or not. Easy…can’t you wait a bit? 🙂
P.S.: Remember the days when people attacked me when I said Sony was about to release an SLT camera with semitransparent mirror. Ah, did I enjoy my revenge 🙂
Yeah, I can imagine these Fanboys roaming around your house with baseball bats and chainsaws blaming you a canonikon…
Hehe, I’m not sure if you enjoyed it for long – most of the folks that were so very much opposed to SLT already left Sony some time ago and now shoot other brand. Lucky enough – we’ve got open market and everyone can choose their path 🙂
I think you’re sure of it, because you want to believe it. However, long before the NEX-7 was official, there were pictures of it (that some thought to be fake), but not so with the alleged change on the A99 to an ISO hotshoe, that, magically, is also an AIS or IAS hotshoe. There’s not even a prototype like there was for the A900.
The entire NEX concept is one of compactness, but with existing criticism of the lack of lenses for the system, you think thew will now make a model that requires full frame lenses? All they need is to develop a wideangle converter to be placed between existing A-mount lenses and the NEX bodies. Such a converter would increase the speed of the lenses with a factor of 1.5 f-stops, and they already have a 24 Mpix sensor, so what more could one want?
Man, your mixing up lens speed with viewing angle.
So a teleconverter does not reduce the speed of a given lens?
What happens with a teleconverter is that light is spread over a larger area, so using a 1.4x converter will reduce lens speed by 1 f-stop (e.g. from f:2.8 to f:4) and a 2x converter reduces speed by 2 f-stops (e.g. from f:2.8 to f:5.6).
Conversely, a wideangle converter placed between the lens and the body will concentrate light on a smaller area, like a magnifying glass that you can use to set fire to paper etc.
If properly made, it will increase sharpness – just like a teleconverter generally reduces sharpness.
Andrea quite obviously does not do that, Klipsen.
I know that it’s an exaggeration, but at least for the rumours closest to his heart he does. The full frame NEX is one, the ISO hotshoe another. He so wishes them both to be true that the mere mention of them becomes an SR5.
We have yet to see photos, patents, drawings or any other more tangible indications of those “highest degree of probability” rumours.
Yes, Andrea does get more excited about things he believes are revolutionary. But I suspect he uses the same methodology as always in labeling a rumor SR5 or SR3 or whatever: how reliable has the rumor source proven to be, and is the rumor corroborated by other reliable rumor sources.
This year, it does seem that Sony is keeping things closer to their collective chest. The A99 announcement is still a good three to four weeks away–still plenty of time to see pictures etc. before the actual announcement. Sometimes Andrea stumbles across key information just days before the formal announcement.
Are you new to this site? SR5 rumors are always (or almost always) on target. They obviously have reliable sources.
Reliable sources, you say. Then shouldn’t they be marked SR4?
This has stopped me in my tracks. I was thinking having a d5100 and an nex was stupid, both aps-c why spend all that money on 2 systems so i sold my nex to buy a rx100, with upgrading the d5100 to a d600 FF when it comes out. If this is true my have 2 cameras at all? Sell all my gear and get this bad boy with a few primes.
sell your gear everytime something new comes out.yeah!
Yeah!
Nikon lenses fit in the E-mount. I know, because I tried (by mistake) to use a E-mount cap on a Nikon lens. And obviously, the Nikon F mount can be used with an FF sensor.
I’m getting tired of this now. THERE ISN’T GOING TO BE A FULL FRAME NEX. The E-mount was designed for Aps-c. it is bigger than an equivalent film mount would be but digital requires that as it needs telecentric retrofocus lenses. Have you guys never looked at a 4/3 mount? Look how big it is relative to the sensor size.
Sure you can get a 135 sensor in there, but that doesn’t make it viable. All current FF cameras are a compromise since they use smaller than optimal mounts to serve a legacy user and lens base. The M9 has required a special curved sensor and lots of software corrections to get over the corner smearing, vignetting and colour shift. How much do you think a NEX with a special curved sensor would cost?
No E-mount lens outputs a FF imaging circle. Are you prepared to wait for a a whole new range to be created? Let me help you out – you’ll have a long wait, because they aren’t coming.
A mirrorless A mount camera? Sure. E-mount – NO.
Very soon I expect you to say here: ” Sorry, I was completely wrong” 🙂
I suspect you’re right. The rumors have been swirling on and off about this pretty much from the beginning of NEX, and Sony is also doing Super35 sized sensors in the NEX video cameras, which are a bit different in size, too.
But my problem is simple: lenses. Many of the current lenses have corner issues as it is with APS. For a FF NEX strategy to work, we’ll need new lenses. Adapters aren’t the answer. I judge Sony to be behind in lens offerings for the two mounts they already have. We don’t need a third option, we need more (and in some cases better) lenses.
Also, if I’m understanding you correctly, a FF NEX will put Sony into the position of making four different types of lenses (more if you want to count the video gear): APS NEX, FF NEX, APS A, and FF A. True, you get some benefit from overlap at the longer focal lengths, but this also becomes a marketing issue: you need to channel the right customer to the right thing, and missing lenses in any of the four areas really complicate things. Nikon already has that problem with just three lens needs (CX, DX, and FX). Four will be harder.
Hi Thom!
I am close to get the details about how this will work. I think Sony knows the issue with the lenses and they will do an “open” and “universl” system. Will post about it next week as soon as I get some more confirmations…
Thom,
This is not about Sony about to create yet another line of lenses. It’s about Sony integrating Alpha and E mounts into one system.
Okay. But is that the right answer? Because such a strategy comes with other issues. Nor does it solve the E-mount lens problem.
My questions are:
1) What will happen to the A mount now?
2) What will happen to the SLT system (PDAF on sensor coming)?
Wait now I re-read your comment. Actually if rumors I am getting are correct…we both are right 🙂
That’s good to hear. Sony doing right by A-mount users!
Please! Curved sensor is really a SciFi for consumers products nowadays. I guess what you want to cite is “offset microlenses” which is already present in M9,C3,5N and F3 (stupidly lack in NEX 7).
No nex has adjusted microlenses array. It just happened NEX-5N doesn’t show color shift with RF WAs: it smeares a lot instead. For example, Super Elmar 18 ASPH is sharper on edges of M9 (full frame) than on ones of NEX-5N. This lens is flawless with Ricoh GXR M-mount module.
@customercopy
Curved sensor on the M9. Pull the other one.
Do you have a reliable reference for such a claim?
What about the short sensor to mount distance (flange) ? How will they manage to get the light to hit the corners of the larger sensor at a reasonable angle ? Really big rear lens elements ? Re-designed sensor pixels/microlenses ?
Why bother with ff sensor if the optical compromises are too great to deliver ?
Also, what’s the point of a 300 gram body with a ff zoom lens of 700 grams or more ? Will this use prime lenses only ?
There will be adapters for an optimal flange distance!
Ah, that makes sense – so if you stick an aps-c lens on you get a cropped shot and if you use a new FF e-mount lens ( or e-compatible-mount lens ?) + the new adapter, then you get a FF NEX. So it would seem likely that the current a-mount adapter will work too. No need for curved sensors etc.
Thanks Andrea.
exactly. I am working on these details now. Hope to explain the exact technique next week!
OK, just a quick thought, do you mean sony would leave day-dreamers to use M lens on ff NEX with serious soft corners, and develop ff E-mount lens(just attach a buit-in adapter with existing ff A lens) and also a smaller adapter with A lenses? Or they would like to give a fully adjusted offset microlenses sensor to suit any rangefinder lenses with ease, but MAYBE not competitive with SLR/T lenses? Anyone tried SLR/T lenses on M9 to check the compatitivity for image corners?
It’s just a matter of the lenses’ back focus distance and sensor coverage. Currently, there are two options – aps-c e-mount and FF a-mount.
It seems this will be an e-mount body that can do what the current NEX can : both a-mount FF lenses with 1.5x multiplier with the existing adapter, and aps-c e-mount (in an aps-c crop mode – not using all of the FF sensor area).
And it seems there will be a third option – a new set of lenses with a third back focus distance ( allowed by using an adapter ).
Seems very logical for a company that wants to sell bodies and doesn’t make many lenses. They get a new breed of body and only need to develop a few lenses and adapter to suit it, and they get to test the market to see if this new body will sell well.
My only worry is that they will spread themselves thin and not develop any of these options well enough to make them stand the test of time. Betamax or Mini-Disc anyone ?
So, smearing and color shift with M-mount lenses?
Well, I will pass it then.
Oh great, so lenses will stick out even further than they do now, bringing more “unbalance” to the whole. I sure hope Sony will have some pancakes lined up with this one.
No doubt it’ll still be smaller and lighter than a D600 or EOS-6D, which is the point of NEX, and indeed, a real theme for Sony and many Japanese co – miniaturisation. Of course, not truly miniature but… you get the point.
I don’t find the NEX 5N at all “unbalanced” when I am using a large Nikon legacy lens. I am just glad to have “film back” that is smaller and lighter than a Nikon SLR, thus reducing the overall weight.
Try thinking of the lens as the main part of the equipment, with the sensor-holder as an attachment.
Yes, exactly. That I thought was the point, the design concept, of the original NEX-5 design: the lens barrel attached to a focal plane.
If the new FF cameras are 200gr lighter than the older ones, then it is a good evolution, isn’t it?
The problem is balance and grip for a heavy lens on a thin small body – it’s hard to keep steady.
That’s what I thought … but practice proved me wrong.
With a DSLR, the camera carries the lens. With a Nex, it’s rather the reverse.
You simply carry the camera by holding the lens.
Takes 5 sec. to adjust 🙂
A curved sensor?? Wow, had no idea that was possible, but makes sense. I think the standard e-mount lenses will work, but with a 1.6x crop. Only a ff lense will be able to take advantage of the whole sensor.
M9 killer??
Jay
But the flange distance with the same mount could be a major problem of CA. Leica M9 already got problem. so do NEX 7. I doubt Sony will use the same mount for Fullframe NEX.
One suggestion to Sony. Instead of interchangeable lens, make it interchangeable mount.
User can choose Leica M-mount, E-mount or even Contax G-mount for their existing lenses. This will also solve Sony’s problem of lack of lenses.
Instead of developing lenses for E-mount, A-mount, APS-C, FF…., just focusing in developing killer camera bodies and a few high quality lenses.
Isn’t an interchangeable mount exactly what we have already?
I suppose there could be “official” Sony mount adapters, but the various companies in the market seem to be already doing a good job of supplying adapters for most lenses.
A integrated yet removable mount with all the electronic contacts is not the same as those third party adapters.
Sorry if this was already posted.. I just bought a NEX-7 and NEX7 lenses to go with it. Will my lenses work with this new FF body without an adapter ? If it requires an adapter I assume AF will work as well ?
Thanks
J
No, all your NEX lenses now are only APS-C
Buy it!
great idea man!!
I still doubt this rumor. There are contraditive conclusions if the E-mount can fit an FF-sensor or not.
Somehow, Sony must do something extra, but they proably do, they have pulled rabbit out of hats before.
This post is from a Swedish forum, posted by a very knowledgeable and smart person.
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fotosidan.se%2Fforum%2Fshowpost.php%3Fp%3D1858685%26postcount%3D1074
I am not sure who is right here, but convinced if there will be an FF NEX, Sony has to change the mount somehow. Pherhaps there will be another even shorter mount, without any native lenses, that always need an adapter and that there will be E-mount adapters supplied with the cameras or something.
There is a “trick” from Sony. I am working on the rumor now…
Is the “trick” sensor plane shift?
There’s no trick necessary, I think. Just look at this NEX-F3 picture on that Swedish site showing a much bigger sensor than than full frame. E-Mount’s metal ring has an inside diameter of 47 mm on the camera side. This gets reduced by the lenses’ bodies that’s got to fit inside, which is the metal brim of 2 mm on every lens and this comes exactly to 43 mm or probably the real full frame need of 43.2666 mm. So that Swedish photoshop montage is wrong and the NEX-7 montage by Alphacorner on top here is right.
Measuring an E-Mount lens back the inside diameter of the metal lens mounting ring is 42 mm which is also enough to project a full frame image on the sensor still more than a centimetre away. But you’ll get a dramatic risk of scratching your back lenses, when they’re huge and close to the mounting ring.
If they need to, they could probably make the mount wider and make some kind of a ring to go on current E-mount lenses that would fit _inside_ the wider mount. Anyway who will buy a full frame camera to use crop E-mount lenses?
Or maybe they will make this camera with some sort of inter-changable mount?
Mats, Sony itself (different Sony people on different occasions) has said the mount can be used with a full-frame sensor, with an “adjustment.” Honestly, I believe that is definitive.
“… there will be another even shorter mount, without any native lenses, that always need an adapter and that there will be E-mount adapters supplied with the cameras or something.”
+1
Does the FF Nex and the new EA50 mean the VG20 is the end of the line for the VG series? Will there be a new VG camera? A firmware update for the unloved VG20? Any word?
I check here every day hoping to see news of a new VG or a firmware update.
Personally, I think it makes a lot of sense for Sony to offer transition for current FF A mount customers to new mirrorless technology. My guess is that FF NEX would be an A mount and I view it is a next generation hybrid still/video DSLR rather than top range NEX. It would be wise strategy for Sony to take and quickly discontinue the SLT that clearly fails to gain any traction vs. Nikon and Canon. Sony would end up with 2 modern mirrorless systems – NEX for entry/enthusiasts level and A mount for enthusiasts/pro users.
If, Sony dose this. I will move to Nikon, I shoot with an A580 and A 850. I have been waiting and listening to rumors about the 850/900 replacements for 2 years. The A580 feels light and the construction is weak when attached to the heavy ZIess, 70-200 2.8, 300mm 2.8 and the 600mm f4. The bayonet on the 580 body is loose from these heavy lenses. The A850 is solid and balances well. If, Sony wants to offer something different. They should use thier great sensor technology and develop a medium format camera system and a 6×17 panorama camera.
You will get your A99. Beyond that I think it is game over for traditional large DSLR/SLT at Sony
So, i remember people saying about a square sensor in produtcion… Is that the sony trick? 1:1 sensor?
=D
Thanks for the link to greekdiaries! It is a great way for non-Europeans to get the perspective of a thoughtful observer on what is happening in Greece.
Greek? Are you reffering to my post?
It is a google translation from a post in a Swedish forum.
I was referring to the last part of the original rumor posted by admin, not to any of the replies.
Saw that myself now. Sorry for the confusion.
Admin, if the FF-NEX wont be NEX-7 style, would it look like an A99?
i dont see a point in that…i’m sure it wont be the size of NEX-5
Andrea, thanks for SAR to start with. Great job!
There was a rumor about Sony playing with a square sensor (1:1). Did you hear anything new on that front (perhaps FF square sensor camera, most likely not NEX)?
Thanks!
Sony has the following secret long-term strategy:
1. Cell phones with 2 cameras. One with 28 mm lens. Other one with 75 mm lens. Pixels will have diagonal arrangement and with digital zoom, there will be resolution over 4 MP from 28 to 200 mm. It will be superior system to the Nokia one camera cell phone.
2. Small sensor ultrazoom cameras
3. 1″ system, fixed lenses, zoom and ultrazoom
4. NEX system
5. NEX FF system. That is the FF NEX system described in this article. Sensor phase detect autofocus. Short NEX flange distance. FF sensor. Inexpensive adaptors for FF and APC Alpha lenses. NEX and APC Alpha lenses will produce about half the resolution, because they will not cover the whole sensor area. The reason Sony is slow in developing lenses is because future lenses will be either NEX, with emphasis on collapsable, and FF with short flange distance and built-in image stabilization. They will mount directly to the hybrid camera NEX mount and with an adapter will mount to Alpha bodies. The FF NEX cameras will have in-body image stabilization, which will be defeatable or could be combined, for super results, with stabilized lenses.
FF and APC Alpha system will eventually, but very slowly, fade away. Nikon and Canon, will follow Sony, but will hang on to their current system much longer. Sony system will be superior especially because it will better integrate the video function and there will not be mirror shake. Consumer level camcorders will become the thing of the past.
I remember a few months back the admin made a post about a camera with a hybrid mount that allowed a mount and e mount lenses to be mounted.
I bet this is the same camera. It’ll be a full frame camera made primarily for existing full frame a mount lenses but it’ll allow e mount lenses to be adapted. That will be the trick the admin is referring to. This will also allow old lenses to be adapted. So people can adapt their lenses the way they do on the nex but have a 35mm sized sensor.
Then the clouds will darken and we will enter a period that will be called “The wailing” because of all the crying people will do because of how bad the corners are.
That the NEX mount is universal could explain why Sony has not been quick to develop and release APSC specific lenses.
If I knew that an NEX-FF was coming down the pipe, I would want to spend more development on lenses for the mirrorless full frame.
If Sony has indeed had this foresight, we may well see a well-conceived system with enough disruptive force to take on Canikon.
Maybe this is a revolutionary development!
Yeah, Sony simply waited until Nikon & Canon had disappointed the mirrorless scene with their “solutions” which both were not inspiring at all. Smart move, Sony, feeding a rumour site immediately after Canon started to offer their mirrorless “thing”.
I’m hoping that the FF NEX will have a new kind of hybrid lens mount that will allow using both E-mount and A-mount lenses without an adapter, as well as a possible new type of FF E-mount lens. Few current E-mount and A-mount users are going to be willing to invest in another set of lenses and I don’t see how Sony can afford to lose those customers.
You can’t have a true “hybrid” A-mount E-mount. The flange distances are way different and E-mount wouldn’t fit inside the A-mount (let alone the lenses). Must be some kind of adapter or interchangeable mount.
The missile that FF can fire on APS, m4/3, and anything smaller is a simple one: greater subject isolation. In photography, this is paramount—period.
End of discussion. Leave out better ISO performance (ISO could be irrelevant in the future)—greater dynamic range could be irrelevant in the future.
Who wants (or more importantly needs FFF (f*****g full frame))? In another few years FF will be a tiny minority sport, rather like medium format today. Sensor development will ensure that superb quality will be available from APS-C or smaller sensors, thereby making FF largely redundant.
Actually, all formats are full frame if you use all of the sensor for recording images!
I await missiles from FFF lunatics.
Do you print large images @ 300dpi?
Yes I do, still do not need FFF
How large can can you print an image @ 300 dpi? From a crop sensor.
As big as I want. I do not give a monkey’s whether 300 dpi is better than 240 dpi (the industry standard). The prints I get from APS-C and m43 are just fine thank you.
Then Nokia PureView 808 is for you, but if you want to create images with a traditional depth of field worldwide common since the very first Leica of 1913/25 you need full frame. You might name it habituation, but if you show nearly identical photos taken with full frame or an iPhone most people will feel more comfortable with full frame and name the smaller sensor something like “plastic look”. On the other hand today’s camera technology is coming to a point where diffraction and simply lens building quality is limiting further miniaturisation and more pixels per inch. Therefore I’d rather expect APS-C or µ4/3 to die instead of full frame…
Sorry, you are talking garbage. Where do you get this “plastic look” crap?
You are clearly one of the FFF lunatics expected to reply. The reality is that APS-C and soon smaller formats can cope perfectly well with all commercial demands that can be made of image quality.
Keep firing as you wish, I believe that the vast majority of photographers could not give a stuff about FFF!
You’re the one firing, mate. I wrote my personal opinion while accepting yours and now you’re starting the war while ignoring my quite qualified explanation completely. Nobody wants you to buy a full frame camera, but why are you so unable to accept people who are really excited about that?
BTW I don’t care about “commercial demands” and that “plastic look crap” is quite a common term by film makers, who excessively use ND filters for a depth of field near full frame plus grading to get a traditional film look – you might name these guys “lunatics”, but even the professional ones do. And you might have seen adverts sometimes or somewhere, that also this commercial demands prefer full frame or often larger formats plus photoshop instead of the original sensor output, don’t you?
There’s fundamental noise limitations and we are already there: almost no progress between D3s and D4 in 3 years.
So you won’t see any improvement. Any APS-C will still be worse than prechistoric canon 5d in high ISO (I mean up to ISO 3200), not to mention newer FF cameras.
It think your completely wrong here. FF will be the next big buzz word with canikon both releasing budget models this year. FF is the next MP ISO war. If anything is going to die out it will be APS-C DSLR’s and m4/3 CSC’s.
Is that full frame APS-C, m43 or whatever that will die out?
FF DSLR’s will get cheaper and cheaper until eventual there will be no APS-C DSLR’s. Nikon are rumoured to be releasing a APS-C CSC if this is true, it’s look like the majority are backing the APS-C sensor for CSC’s. I don’t think any will die off but if they did it wouldn’t be FF.
You guys are right, FF is the next frontier. The research money that was going into APS-C will go into FF. Once the D600 comes out, it will create the new FF price-point that competitors will try and shatter. It’s only natural that full frame become cheaper and cheaper.
I’m like other’s here that worry about Sony’s lens range getting spread too thin. They would of course make native FF lenses for the shorter flange distance of the NEX FF cam.
Andrea usually is not this confident unless there truly will be a product, he doesn’t have that many misses.
If you want to be creative and value a nice bokeh, full frame is a better option than APS-C. That’s also the reason why some people prefer fast primes: not for the extra light, but for the nicer bokeh. And for a lot of enthousiasts, photography is about being creative… That kind of ‘superb quality’ isn’t feasable with APS-C and certainly not with smaller sized sensors. But if you only want images that are sharp all the way, yes then full frame is overkill…
Smart move by Sony. I always thought they would do this. Of course it means they will need new lenses, but that is no big deal. It will be much the same as EF/EFS on Canon. -Dunadan
I hope the FF NEX at least has a hybrid lens mount so I can use my A-mount lenses on it without an adapter. I already own a bunch of E-mount and A-mount lenses and there’s absolutely no way I’m going to invest in a third set.
so if the new FF camera uses E mount, but needs a whole new range of (presumably larger) lenses, whats the real advantage over just making an A mount NEX?
Nex lenses aren’t significantly smaller than A mount anyway.
Adding more complication to a market which is already aimed at the simpler end of the market just doesn’t make any sense.
Presuming its possible, an A mount nex would sell like hotcakes
The flange distance on an a-mount would make it to large.
Regardless of sensor evolution, I’ve been really happy with quality of my photos from various Sony cameras ranging from SLT-a57/65, Nex-5n and surprisingly RX-100. Those 3 sizes cover every situation.
I think SAR and Admin deserve a lot of credit by us and Sony in creating excitement and providing information about the new cameras and lenses. Thank you!
So, if I understood correctly, the rumor is that the new FF camera will have an E-mount and an adapter for A-mount lenses? And it will be a hybrid photo/video camera? So basically, not a nex-7 with a FF sensor, but an A99 with a hybrid E-A mount? Weird.
Although… it may make sense as an EOS 5D killer. Sony missed that market and the hundreds of videographers who have jumped on the 5D bandwagon could adapt whatever lenses they have to an E-mount.
If FF NEX ever come, i guess it will have longer nose than current NEX, so longer flange distance around 1 centimeter, with the same E-mount ring at the top. Because the focal point is somewhere between sensor plane and the lens, longer flange distance than current one , will make 1.5xtimes longer and wider (FF) projection of the light on the sensor plane. THen, FF NEX body may take ALPHA body’s look.
If FF NEX ever come, i guess it will have ALPHA-like longer nose than current NEX, so longer flange distance around 1 centimeter, with the same E-mount ring at the top. Because the focal point is somewhere between sensor plane and the lens, longer flange distance than current one , will make 1.5 x times longer and wider (FF) projection of the light on the new wider (FF) sensor plane. THen, FF NEX body may take ALPHA body’s look.
I still think (and hope) that Sony decides to keep e mount lenses APS-C. We are finally starting to see good focal lengths from them in that regard, which I’m not willing to lose. Having A mount be the FF system makes sense because those lenses work on alpha, nex FF with adapter, and Minolta film bodies.
But this seems to point at shorter than nex flange, sturdy adapter to E mount (then you put further adapters on this) or it accepts an LA-EA3 with a larger mirror directly to the shorter flange mount. Companies will probably make mounts to the shorter flange as well, but they don’t have to necessarily. Whatever happens I’m sure it’s exciting, with them doing a nex 6 it’s clear that they are keying in to what people want
I get the notion Sony’s strategy in the cameramarket is one of trial and error; Make different cameras and see what folks will buy.
Remember the horrible looking DSLR’s with small grips? Nobody liked them and Sony reverted to traditional bigger grips with a releasebutton.
To differ themselves from Canikon they also come up with new techniques. Who could imagine the SLT concept before Sony introduced it?
Sony A900/A850 was no success compared to 5DII and D700 as it is really not possible for a smaller player to fight Canikon on their own homeground. Therefore it is a must to be innovative and offer something different to attract customers. Sony did this by going for SLT and the early introduction of NEX mirrorless cameras where neither Nikon nor Canon at the time had any foothold.
A fullframe NEX (-9?) would be another step offering a camera nobydy else (except M9 which, even if it offered live-view and a EVF (expected in the M10!) is simply too expensive for most people.) sell.
Sony NEX cameras are already the most popular for adapting old legacy lenses. A fullframe NEX will be very welcome among the “Legacy lens digital photograpers” (who generally are more serious about their photography and therefore more willing to pay the price for a fullframe camera), a market Sony almost created by themselves when the very adaptable NEX with its short flange distance accepting even Leica lenses was introduced.
Considering the many legacy lens NEX photographers the number of potential FF NEX upgraders are vast. Add to that all who think a fullframe mirrorless using the full lenscircle of their old legacy lenses will be the reason to make the first step into mirrorless.
If priced right Sony don’t need any fullframe NEX lenses to sell a lot of FF NEX cameras! The smaller NEX cameras are also propably more cheap to produce than traditional SLR/SLT cameras (like NEX-7 versus A77) and therefore more profitable. Another reason for Sony to make a FF NEX camera!
“Remember the horrible looking DSLR’s with small grips? Nobody liked them and Sony reverted to traditional bigger grips with a releasebutton”
EnPassant,
Those models were basically ‘warmed-over’ in-betweens, while everyone in R&D worked like hell to get the new Nex-system and the SLT-technology ready for launch about a year later.
It is entirely possible for Sony to fight against CaNikon, just don’t forget that A900 was introduced after CaNikon FF bodies.
……last Saturday i was on the way to buy a NEX-7. The dealer is also an contractor for Leica. I was planning to use Leica lenses use on the Nex-7,
because till now Sony is not able to deliver real Lenses for to Sensor of the NEX-7.
So I playing also a little bit with a Leica M9………. wow I dream from the old analog times (Minolta SLR without any gadgets and electronic, just manual, but with a great lens)
you guess? I go home without a NEX-7, but with a dream of a Camera like my analog in the past. So I’m waiting for a Camera like this:
small, full frame, easy to use, fast manual focusing with a fast Lens for a huge “Bokeh” ;-), sharp corners in landscape and documentary photography, no color aberration, quiet shutter.
I hope sony has understand, that they are in the right direction with camras like RX100 and bring out somhing like a usbility of a RX100, the sensor of a D800e, build quality, viewfinder and the Lenses like Leica
Imagine “You, you may say I’m a dreamer, but I’m not the only one”
so we wil see what Sony with FF NEX and Leica with M10 or M10 mini, next month on the Photokina will present
FF NEX heat dissipation: HOW? NEX-7’s compact body is heated somewhat after long-exposure shot. FF sensor has 2x times surface than APS-C one, then two times more heat than APS-C. This will make FF NEX body take more volume than current one for fast heat dissipation and stable operation.
Just because it’s NEX doesn’t mean it has to be compact. Think of the NEX FS700 video camera, for example. As long as it’s much smaller than a Nikon D800 or a 5D Mark III, it will be a worthwhile product. I’m thinking it will be around the size of a Leica M9, and Alpha mount lenses won’t look too out of place on it.
Will the full frame nex still do bracketing at 0.7
No, E-mount can’t support a full frame sensor and work properly.
The fake rendering is nice, but it forgets that lenses need to screw in the mount, and then they prevent lights to get to both upper corners of the sensor.
You cannot compare to Leica M-mount, whose flange distance is much longer.
The faster, or the more telecentric the lense get, the bigger the problem.
If Sony forces it, then it will most likely have severe optical flaws, just like both LA-EA adapter have with fast lenses (crop bokeh, internal obturation of light).
It will be an A mount mirrorless. By the way I use both adapters on NEX7 with 135mm and 85mm Zeiss FF glass and have ZERO problems.
That’s only because you don’t know where to look, fact is you have additional vignetting, bokeh croping and light obstruction because the adapters chambers are too small (hint: compare with a reflex or SLT).
With the LA-EA1 it shows with f/2 lenses and faster, with the LA-EA2 with f/1.4 (and faster, but there’s none atm), and maybe with f/1.8, I don’t know.
fyi: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1042&message=36846243
Sony has the following secret long-term strategy:
1. Cell phones with 2 cameras. One with 28 mm lens. Other one with 75 mm lens. Pixels will have diagonal arrangement and with digital zoom, there will be resolution over 4 MP from 28 to 200 mm. It will be superior system to the Nokia one camera cell phone.
2. Small sensor ultrazoom cameras
3. 1″ system, fixed lenses, zoom and ultrazoom
4. NEX system
5. NEX FF system. That is the FF NEX system described in this article. Sensor phase detect autofocus. Short NEX flange distance. FF sensor. Inexpensive adaptors for FF and APC Alpha lenses. NEX and APC Alpha lenses will produce about half the resolution, because they will not cover the whole sensor area. The reason Sony is slow in developing lenses is because future lenses will be either NEX, with emphasis on collapsable, and FF with short flange distance and built-in image stabilization. They will mount directly to the hybrid camera NEX mount and with an adapter will mount to Alpha bodies. The FF NEX cameras will have in-body image stabilization, which will be defeatable or could be combined, for super results, with stabilized lenses.
FF and APC Alpha system will eventually, but very slowly, fade away. Nikon and Canon, will follow Sony, but will hang on to their current system much longer. Sony system will be superior especially because it will better integrate the video function and there will not be mirror shake. Consumer level camcorders will become the thing of the past.
Cool August! SARS are getting better day by day. What’s next?
This will be the next Sony standard without useable lenses. They have some good old Minolta designs and a hand full of Zeiss designs – and that’s it.
Nikon 1 and Canon EOS M are much more versatile from the first day on!!!
But it’s true, the sensors are great – at least in theory ….
🙁
You can use NEX and Alpha lenses, both with full electronic support.
As an owner of a NEX5, I can not image of using an Alpha lens as a general purpose lens. The 18-55 is nice looking, but really bad optical design.
Sony do not bring their ideas to an end. They release the next body and the next, but still no lenses. Their primary claim is to have the newest specs within their bodies. One body per month is almost true.
No time for consistent firmware upgrades and only rumors about really useable lenses.
That’s the truth 🙁
But I know and understand: they want to earn money – with the crowd.
But wait…what about the “expert” poster a few months back who “proved” that the E-mount couldn’t accommodate full-frame (despite having a larger diameter (46.1 mm) than several other mounts, including Nikon (44 mm), that already feature full frame? Hopefully that guy went back under his rock.