Nikon Japan said that the Nikon D3200 sensor is different from Sony’s 24 megapixel sensor. I guess they mean that while the basic design may be similar Nikon engineers applied their own “tweaks” on it. Anyway, the Nikon D3200 and the A65 and A77 are really completely different cameras. But from a pure general marketing point of view it may be difficult to explain the $300 price difference between the Nikon D3200 ($699 at Amazon) and the Sony A65 ($999 at A.) to average “john” customers. And there is a big $800 difference with the A77 to consider too ($1499 with kit lens). I repeat, of course the A65 and A77 have many features the Nikon has not but I am curious to here your very “instinctive” answer:
[poll id=”99″]
Maybe it’s just me, but I am a bit frustrated to see that the Nikon D3200 and Nikon D800 are on top of the DSLR sales rankings (Click here). Not that Nikon doesn’t deserve it, but Sony maybe could do a bit more to push their own Alpha range?
164 Responses
Why the hell should a entry-level camera, with samll view-finder, nearly no buttons for direct control hurt the sale of the A77, they aim at totaly different markets.
If this camera hurts sony sales then the sales of the a57 or a35
lots of reasons. One of them is:
its Nikon! Nikon = better than Sony (in the view of 80% of all customers)
another:
80% of all customers dont care about the features of the A65, when the D3200 is 700$ and offers the same or even better IQ (no trans. mirror, Nikon colors and processing)
To be honest, the D3200 sounds very very good!
But with you’re reason the d3200 would not cut the sony sales as well, because some one buying the d3200 didn’t even consider the a6 or even the a77
+1. Thomas’ argument doesn’t stand.
nikon colors? not as good as Sony imho.
Yea… what the heck are Nikon colors?! Last time I heard any word on “Nikon colors” it was something along the lines “works only in black&white, cause sensor sacrifices colors for lower noise”. lol
Well, you can always boost saturation in post. Aside from colour intensity, Nikon also have a different colour palette from Sony and Canon. I find it rather murky.
No IBIS
No bracketing
No HSS
4 FPS
No in camera motor
Doesn’t sound that good to me.
But its a NikYawn so it will sell tons.
Umm, the d3200 does have IBIS and it shoots 9 FPS
but i agree, the a77 rocks!!
UMM you better read this a little closer
http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/04/19/Nikon-D3200-with-WiFi-Option#press
No IBIS
4FPS
“Ready to tag along for any outing, the Nikon D3200’s compact, lightweight body makes it easy to pack for a quick day trip or the long haul. A host of advanced features, including a super high resolution 24.2-megapixel DX-format CMOS sensor, Full HD (1080p) video recording with full time autofocus (AF) and 4 frames-per-second (fps) high-speed continuous shooting mode, prepare the D3200 for challenging lighting conditions and fast paced action.”
“Image stabilization No”
😉
UMM someone doesn’t know how to read!
Don’t forget that the EVF/SLT is still a new concept in the press and itself not yet always a positive.
If test scores show-up that give a cheaper d3200 an edge Sony’s SLT will be in trouble.
I see
No Photo Enthusiast would buy a bottom-of-the-line camera. Well, maybe a Canon Fanboy, you do see a lot of Rebels with “L” lenses 😉
When/if Nikon releases a D7100 that could be a different story.
Most consumers, like most people, are pretty ignorant about most things. Reason #1 I don’t pay much attention to the opinions of the safety dancing status quo.
Once Sony realizes they no longer need to maintain their exclusivity contract with Nikon the gloves will come off. Tic-toc…
Nikon colors…?! Oh my god you really do know shit don’t you Thomas!! Maybe less noise but don’t you dare start claiming that Nikon offers a better image in any other way!
+1. Autofocus speed of the Nikon is very poor. This camera can’t be compared in any aspect to the A77. The sensor is the same (or almost) and that is it.
Agreed. Speaking as a guy who sells both Sony and Nikon side by side daily; Sony, at least this store, sells itself well to the people who are shopping for cameras in this market. The speed alone sells mom and dad simply because they are tired of slow cameras, regardless of make, and they are willing to take a few more shots because they know that the percentage of keepers is likely to be higher simply due to Sony’s ability to capture at the rate the customers believe they need. The image quality is plenty good for this crowd as well. Hobbyists freaking out about Nikon at $699 aren’t being logical: the vast majority of the people in this category come to a camera store looking for assistance in choosing their camera because they AREN’T hobbyists. They just want a good camera for a good price. And Sony’s speed, the multi-frame HAND-HELD capture modes, the intrigue of wireless flash in an entry level product, the size and the weight… they all add up to a superior product FOR THEIR NEEDS, in their minds.
It’s quite simple to sell a Sony over a Canon or a Nikon in this category. It takes very little effort. Typically the camera does it for you. Put it in live view, put the Nikon and the Canon in live view and watch the competition slow to a crawl while Sony still rolls AND AUTOFOCUSES at a minimum of 5fps. Bingo. Sold.
Don’t fret over Nikon and their obsession over swearing what is Sony is NOT… Sony will do fine. All it takes is a semi-motivated salescat and a customer who’s open. And most of them are.
Since when the great Nikon’s sales are affected by Sony at all?
does those nikon dslrs have translucent mirror? no thn i dnt think so,
the speed superiorty of autofocus and countinous video focusing, it wouldnt, for the the million loyal nikon fans its good for them and the billion sony fans always was good for them 🙂 sales will be good for both.
C’mon let’s speak about A99, shouldn’t we? 😀
+1000
Enough Sony, Don’t let your costumers waiting anymore.
From my brief experience of D3200, I should admit that the noise control from ISO 1600-6400 is still handling well over Sony. The key point is the JPG engine of Nikon still better than Sony’s. I am not sure will it hurt A65’s sales. But it should hinder the customers shift to Sony when there is already an option.
To be honest, I’m one of the impacted. Wanted a A750 or A600 at least. Last time thought about A580at least. Now, I’ll take D3200. If Sony dropped OVF, I’ll upgrade later for Nikon.
D3200 impact isn’t so big, A65 may be more then A77. But still.
But there is D7100 coming with 24 mp. It will impact heavily.
Not true, JPEG engine of A65/A77 is very good.
If anything, tha d3200 has no translucent mirror, which would give the same ISO performance as Nex7.
And if the noise performance is better, I bet the sharpness will be affected, what I see a lot with Nikon sensors. Less noise and more blurry pictures, even RAW.
You were never considering the A65/A77 in the first place. The reason you chose the D3200 is because there was nothing you liked in the Sony lineup, not because the Nikon is somehow better.
Sony marketing hurts the sale of those cameras more than anything Nikon does.
they’re not even competing on the same level… i wouldn’t say that one will affect the sale of another, either way.
exactly
Of course it does. Nobody will buy the D3200 over the A77, but having the A77 sensor in an entry level Nikon also kills the appeal of the Sony camera(s) and the customer considering the A77 is more likely to buy a Nikon substitute (whatever is Nikons higher end APS-C).
I don’t get the ad hoc reasoning here. First the A77 and A65 should have had the 16MP sensor to be much more successful. Note, a sensor that was already found in entry level cameras from Sony AND Nikon. Now some people assume (while some evidence points to the opposite…) Nikon starts using that 24MP sensor in an entry level camera, it’s hell on earth again.
Fact, sensors don’t define classes, cameras do. I bought an entry level Sony with the D300S sensor for less than a third of the price. Did that affect Nikon D300s sales significantly, or even at all? If you want to fault something, fault marketing and advertisement.
“Fact, sensors don’t define classes, cameras do.” Exactly.
Suddenly, the highly controversial 24MP sensor became the sensor to have, now that Nikon uses it, lol.
I’m still trying to get my head around that one too.
Same thing happened with the A900 sensor. “Who needs 24 Mpix? 12 Mpix is much better”. Said Nikonians, when they “only” had the D3 and the D700. Then came the D3x, and all of a sudden there was plenty reason for a 24 Mpix, full frame sensor. I guess I wasn’t the only one to predict that change in attitude.
first, what the hell sony is thinking ‘letting’ nikon uses it on their entry level camera? nikon is laughing at sony now…. its a bold move by nikon to put the 24mp on a $699 camera… then sony will introduce the A58, A59, and nikon still stuck with D7000 for 3 years. maybe..
Yes,
Exactly.
For me all the sony strategy from the a33/a55 was great and well oriented…
Except the A57 which in my opinion was the big error!
Of course the noise properties of D3200 will be better than A77 or A65. Nikon always squeezes a bit more out of the sensors than Sony. Furthermore, the camera has not to deal with 0.5 EV light loss caused by the SLT mirror and that means a half stop better noise properties without any extra effort.
D3200 has also features that are missing in the A77: Tethered shooting. It is absolutely poor that this is missing even in the A77, while it was available in A700, 850 and 900. With the wireless Nikon adaptor
http://www.nikon.de/de_DE/product/accessories/slr/slr-connectivity/wireless/wu-1a-wireless-mobile-adapter
you can control your camera even with your smartphone and view the taken photos and videos directly wireless, which is very usefull especially for studio photographers to show the photos directly on a large screen.
After A77 was presented, Paul Genge said, that Sony might add the tethered shooting to the A77 firmware if it turns out that there is a big request for it. Well, up to now, Sony was mainly occupied with bugfixes, so there is a little hope that this feature might return in a later version of the firmware.
It has to deal with mirror flap and some unstabilized primes for example.
I tried tethered shooting with my 850 but could not accomplish this. I did not realize 850 allowed for tethered shooting.
Poke,
As a fellow a850 shooter I read often that the a850 has tethering but as far as I know that’s not true; the a850/a900 will not tether.
I was told that I could use the a700 software but I tried it back in 2009 without luck.
The a700 did allow some tethering features.
Steve,
Hopefully, the new FF will allow tethering but I don’t know if the new SLT will be a better studio camera than the 850. At least I won’t waste any time trying to figure out tethering with my 850. Thanks!
Hi. You can control the a900 from the computer and put the photos in a folder. Then watch the folder with lightroom. Its very easy. Furthermore as russian software developer makes a dedicated thether software for the sony cameras.
So thethet shooting works on the a700, a900, and a850.
David,
I’ve read this before and have tried to make it work from a Windows Vista x64 then later after Windows 7 x64 shipped I tried it again.
Just now I tried using LR4 and still no luck….
BTY, my Nikon d7000 works in LR4 so its not Lightroom
Do you think its windows 7 x64?
This russian software guy I’ve been hearing about for years, how can I find this?
It works for me as well with the A900. I’ve been using it to copy slides.
Hi. You can control the a900 from the computer and put the photos in a folder. Then watch the folder with lightroom. Its very easy. Furthermore as russian software developer makes a dedicated thether software for the sony cameras.
So thethet shooting works on the a700, a900, and a850.
Hi. You can control the a900 from the computer and put the photos in a folder. Then watch the folder with lightroom. Its very easy. Furthermore as russian software developer makes a dedicated tether software for the sony cameras.
So tether shooting works on the a700, a900, and a850.
I guess Sony also will release a entry level 24MP camera soon.
Have you ever looked in a Canon or Nikon viewfinder when the
camera is in live view mode? 😉 (it is of course just black)
So the Sony SLT with EVF has some avantages.
Also the mirorless market is growing.
The Sony NEX system is eating from both Canon, Nikon and Sony SLT.
This is just good, for Sony.
While both Sony and Nikon sensors have 24Mp, they are not the same, not related. Nikon has has at least three sensor sources – Sony, Aptina and Nikon itself. This 24Mp looks (the physical chip) like Nikon creation, and is very different looking from Sony chips.
For me, dropping OVF and increasing prices with not yet perfect EVF was a mistake. Nikon should take over Sony DSLR divison as long as Canon will not do it. Alpha is no more the right choice for a fotographer
Just not for you maybe.
I think this sensor business with Nikon is turning into another big Sony blunder. They should have stipulated in what type of cameras Nikon could use the sensors as not to damage Sony in this current manner. Apart from that, I think Sony leads in camera innovation: I was convinced when I got my A100, when I got the A350, the NEX-5 and now the NEX-7.
Should Sony gives up Alpha division, the first company that comes to my mind that’s willing to pay premium to buy it is Samsung.
We don’t even know for sure that it’s the same sensor! Physical size is slightly different.
Besides this, who thinks DSLR with mirror will be industry standard in 10 years? Not me! Mirrorless cameras have come so far in such a small space of time that they are surely the future! Look at the Zeiss lenses on Sony P&S cameras! I predict 30MP+ RAW + 10-250mm focal range on hand held pocket size camera easily within 10 years. Traditional size DSLR will die a slow death.
The point of all this is that D3200 is just another evolutionary step. DSLR, and especially FF, is a shrinking market. Shrinking fast. If Sony can be first with Mirrorless FF, HD quality EVF and including CDAF it will control the market. Believe it!!
I pretty much agree. The only thing I question is FF mirrorless. ’cause fast FF lenses are too damned heavy.
“Traditional size DSLR will die a slow death” – no they won’t. I have both crop and full frame cameras. While crop cameras are light and fun, FF gives that very special feel with fast glass that crop sensor can’t deliver. Big glass needs a sturdy balanced body. 35mm Full fame is the golden medium between Compact and Medium Format.
I believe Nikon thought that crop (APS-C) sensors were the future when they put out the D2 line while Canon pushed full frame models. As it turns out, they were wrong, and had to make their own full frame DSLRs to compete.
I don’t think full frame DSLRs will die out, because they will continue to offer top notch speed and low light performance for sports shooters. Right now, the ISO performance of even the best APS-C DSLRs are more than a stop behind full frame models. Full frame models will likely stay ahead in the future.
Come on, let’s face it – I have NEX-7 and I ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT, but it can’t get even close to what my D800 offers! Same with my old D7000. I also had A55, which despite the good image quality feels like a toy.
I do agree that Sony rules in technology aspect, but they still are trying to catch up the big names in the photography business.
I also think that if they have kept “Minolta” as a name for their high end cameras, they would have better market share today. Same as Ricoh with Pentax.
Look at Samsung – I believe their sensors are as good as Sony (or close) and their body design can match either Nikon or Canon, but the lack of good name is not in favor and won’t make them very popular – at least for several more years.
I do not own Sony stocks, therefore I can care less.
Sincerely.
You mean you COULDN’T care less, right?
yeah! you are right. thank you for pointing that out.
but can I say: I do not give a damn!
The Nikon is very much entry level compared even to the A65. Takes very little investigation to find out. Then we have quality feel, ergonomics and usability.
Many start with how much they are ready to spend and then Sony and Canon entry level will loose out to the 3200’s seductive 24 mpix.
Well, 24mpx in a APS-C for an entry level is way too much. But – the megapixel count is for people which buy their first DSLR a big factor. Mind, those people dont care about weather proof body, lens micro adjust or all the advanced camera features. They keep their camera on AUTO most of the time. They just usually point and shoot, just with a DSLR.
For those people I can imagine that with that price tag they will buy the D3200 which I think still competes mainly with the A57. However the A57 has a higher price tag and lower mpx. So I am mainly sure that the A57 sales will be hurt signifficantly by the D3200. The A65 and A77 sales – to some extent, although I think if – then the A65 will be hurt.
As a consumer I hope Sony will react pricewise and will drop the price of the A57, A65 and A77, whereby the A57 should drop most. Amazing that we are discussing a possible price drop for a camera which is just now hitting the slelf.
We will see how good D3200 sells and now Sony should better fight back with an 24mp A600
at $ 499 … Such a big error not having build an A580 successor before this Nikon!
image quality is not only a sharpness matter. Sony colours are great. many photographers like Sony for that reason. usabilty, handlings, build quality are also taken into account..Each brand has it own character..Canon, nikon, Pentax, Olympus or Panasonic. By saying that one is better u r indirectly willing that other brands should follow nikon coz it’s the best…well luckily each camera has its own character and it’s fine! imagine if all the cameras of any brand produce the same colours…all photographers would produce the same kinda of pics..BORING!!! be grateful to have the possibilty to choose and stop saying that one is better than the other..everyone has its own preferences..this blog is dedicated to Sony lovers and i don’t see the point that Nikon fanboys criticize Sony..stick to Nikon and stop wasting your time on the blog..people are free to have preferences and as far as i am concerned, i don’t give a shit if someone prefers Nikon..i take pics and that’s it..
Looks almost like the new Sony strategy is selling sensors in stead of cameras. I doubt they will get a foothold in the DSLR area now for the next 2-3 years. If ever. Never wanted to admit it, and absolutely love the Sony colours, but sure seems I am in the wrong camp (and knowing this forum: go on and shout something bad at me for mentioning that).
The Nikon camera will hurt Sony’s because of its price point. You need to be in photography for a while to appreciate the feature differences. What people will see is a high pixel count and that very fancy Nikon label at an affordable price. Indeed it will be interesting to see what the sensor can do without that translucent mirror in front of it.
+1
As someone who first made money as a professional in the 1970’s and has owned both Minolta, Nikon and Sony I can’t tell you how often someone looks at my a850’s and Zeiss or 70-200/f2.8 G setups and questions:
Sony?
Really?
Nikon and Canon own the market for what people see as big black cameras with big lenses. 😉
This should be the death of the NikYawn 1 system
😉
This is non-sense all of Canon’s cameras are 18MP and 1x00D (whatever the current lowend) surely does not hurt the sales of 7D
Same here D3200….this is barely DSLR. It is useless – very bad ergonomics, tons of missing features…joke camera. Low end DSLRs are manifestation of cost cutting. Surely they can take occasional picture but are mediocre in almost any and all ways.
I think the posts above call for 24MP A37 or alike lowend Sony camera.
no, it won’t two completely different cameras, two completely different groups of potential buyers. only ppl who look at mp count would make statement that it would hurt sales. it will not.
Folks, quit obsessing over the 24 mpx sensor…its the physical size and pixels that means the world. Would anyone say this new Nikon 24mpx tops the Nikon d3s 12mpx sensor….?
The question is being asked backwards. Considering Nikon’s market share compared to Sony’s the real question should be will A57/65 sales hurt the D3200? Yes, except for the Nikon kool-aid drinkers who will buy anything Ashton is pitching. Maybe the question should be “Will the A57 hurt sales of the a65?” The answer is yes. The a77 should not be part of this question since it is a semi-pro metal bodied camera and priced like it. (I don’t agree that the a77 is a mid-level DSLR at all…sorry Cnet)
I think, Yes, it will hurt sales, and not only that, this changes every single plan from the high manufacturers (Sony, Canon and Nikon itself)
For example, we do have A35 (16MP) A57 (16MP) theeeen A65 (24MP) and A77 (24MP). How do you justify to the eyes of the general, random, and uninformed average customer that doesn’t know too much about cameras and only think, the more megapixels the better? He will pass on A35, A57 and will complain or have doubts about the 300USD difference with A65 and 800USD price difference of A77. And because it’s Nikon, general public will prefer this D3200.
But I hope Sony keeps their cameras a bit conservative and instead of using a 24MP sensor in a entry camera, keep using 16MP or at least develop an 18MP sensor.
But Rooru S, more megapixels are almost always better. For each level of technology there is an optimum pixel pitch – as long as the geometries used are scaled the SLRs are far from having too small pixels.
(Also wasting money on designing a new 18MP sensor when they already have very fine 16 and 24MP ones sounds silly – better to design something more sexy and let the chips trickle down.)
General, random, and uninformed average customer will not buy a77.
General, random, and uninformed average customer buys entry level dslr that friend told to buy. Or clerk at store.
I tend to think that Sony doesn’t view NIKON as a “competitor”. NIKON is really a “customer” of Sony.
I really question how hard Sony is actually fighting in the camera arena. I sometimes get the impression that Alpha is just at “pet” project for them.
The sale of Sony sensors to other companies are decisions that are prolly made much higher up the ladder from where Alpha managers sit. And….I bet the Alpha/NEX managers are not happy about it.
The sensors and the cameras are done by different divisions of Sony. Interestingly NEX and Alpha are also done by separate divisions. Anyhow, Sony’s camera divisions are nothing but customers to the sensor division – one of many, and Nikon is a bigger customer.
Maybe you mean A-mount and E-mount (Nex) as they are both Alpha lines.
Sony itself is like a double edged sword.
It’s a large company with different technology groups that “can” all come together and really help to design, produce and market fantastic products.
However, those same diverse divisions “can” vigorously compete with each other and RUIN great Sony products. ( we love to call it product “crippling” today)
There is always product conflict between Sony Handycam vs. Sony Alpha/NEX vs. Sony PRO Broadcast gear. And now,….Sony sensors/semiconductors is in the internal fight…lol
Sony politics…whew. It’s pretty complicated and we as consumers are stuck on the middle.
Well, when Sony A99 comes out with the same 36MP sensor as the D800, that is going to hurt Nikon’s sales as well.
Jay,
It would be nice is Sony used a 36MP sensor but the a99 (name not yet know for sure) it has been reported to this site by testers that the new FF with have a new 24MP sensor.
Last week it was rumored the FF will be a updated a77 and not a camera that will really challange the d800.
I hope this will prove to be not true
As a representative of the ‘general amateur consumer’ I am not surprised by the YES votes. I personally have done my research and prefer the technologies of Sony cameras over Canikon as many of my friends have chosen to gravitate towards.
I may not have used cameras all of my life but I think of my self as a tech savvy person and in my opinion I think Sony’s features are better suited for me. I’ve used an optical finder yet I prefer EVF. IDK I guess I’m the person Sony is basing the future off of with their a57 and such.
+1
I do not think it will bother the sale of the A77. The Nikon sounds as if it designed for the entry level crowd since the write ups on the Nikon site does not sound as if it will contain many of the features of the a77. As stated above, the A77 is a semi pro model. I think if anyone investigates the 3 cameras – D3200, a77, a65 and want a camera that will expand upward in capabilities as their photo skills expand they will opt for a camera that is more than entry level, and go with the a65 or a77. If they only want a glorified point and shoot, do not want to or care of going farther with their capabilities and do not realize the many other factors a 24mp picture creates (computer space, speed of processing etc) they will get the 24mp entry level and be quickly disappointed, not in the camera but the “other” factors as they realize the difficulties and expense of expanding everything else.
Around 70% of users for A65 and A77 are entry level or advance photo hobbyists, who does not take photos for living. The lower price and high pixel counts will attract them. Plus, D3200 provides better IQ, which they cares about.
Better IQ?
So you can point me to any tests proving that?
Do you think that IQ means only “has less noise”?
How did you get that 70%?
Better IQ? Give me a break.
its Nikon…they do some things better, and in most people’s minds, they do everything better.
I agree that the d3200 vs. a77 is not a clear comparison.
The new Nikon d3200 ruins the market for Sony’s a37, a57 and it’s clear that Nikon is not yet done and will anounce more new bodies soon. Nikon has defined both the price and performance at both the bottom with the d3200 and the top d800 and still has several models in between.
Everything is up for grabs right now, Canon is flat on its back with its new pro cameras, Sony is lowering expectations on a new full-frames all the while Nikon is using Sony’s top sensors and releasing new bodies and that speaks volumes.
Next, I expect that Nikon will release something in the middle that will challenge the a77 big-time and Canon desperately needs to market an answer and get back into the game and Sony needs to get its head out of its corporate ass or quit altogether and slowly let the A-mount fade into history….oh that’s what has been happening for years.
I don’t know that any of us know if the SLT is the future or just a speed bump in the road to a fully mirror-less design, but it is clear that Sony needs to do something fast.
They certainly have the best range of lenses available
Well said Steve
Though I have become strictly a liveview user, even I am tempted for this price! Nearly 1/2 of a NEX-7!
I still have a whole bunch of Nikkor that I can use on the D3200 and the fast prime DX 35/1.8 (quite a decent lens) is quite cheap unlike the NEX primes.
If someone compares the price of the camera plus the available lenses, Nikon wins, hands down. No question about it.
Maybe you should compare DSLR with DSLR and entry level with entry level?
Comparing entry level DSLR with enthusials/semi-pro/call-it-somehow-else mirrorless and talking about price is a bit stupid.
bots are making posts now? LOL
Why yes sir, and i bet you would not pass turing test, filthy meatbag!
You have Nikon lenses, then you go on to compare with the NEX system and you end up choosing the D3200? Wow. really? 🙂
I end up choosing the D3200? I said the price is tempting.
I did pick up a new NEX-C3 for a price considerably less than that of an EVF for the 5N.
One of the LTM Nikkors just shines. I have Nikkor, Rokkors, every other kor there is. LOL.
By this reasoning, Canon sales and other Nikon SLR sales will be affected. New cameras from Nikon or Canon always fill the top spot. On the other hand, if you believe that mirrorless is the future (and I do), it’s only a matter of time before the SLRs and SLTs become passe. If Sony comes out with a mirrorless A-mount camera(s) (and they will, it is only a matter of time), who will buy the SLTs? The race to mirrorless is on and let’s face it, Sony is pretty much one of the leaders in this genre. A-mount mirrorless for people who like larger cameras and who need fast/long lenses, E-mount cameras for compact size and portability. In three years or so, the camera landscape will be quite different. Sony is moving to SAM and SSM lenses on the Alpha line in preparation for this change.
Can you imagine the normal consumer targeted by low end cameras having the disk storage space to store all the files generated by a high megapixel camera? Actually, a camera is just a box. They pretty much do the same thing. The lenses are the key to a great system. Nikon and Canon unboubtedly have great lens selections.
That being said, Sony seems to lack the manufacturing capability to make their vision come to fruition faster. They should ramp this up quickly and provide the lenses necessary for a healthier market share.
Of course, I still like my A77 and NEX cameras. I think a low end NEX camera with a finder like the one on the A57 will be the best selling interchangeable lens camera Sony has ever made. The updated NEX-5n actually focuses fast enough for most people. And for that, they merely need the 18-55 and 55-210mm lenses for the vast majority of the people who purchase such a camera. And luckily for NEX purchasers, those two lenses are quite good.
Let Sony continue to be considered no. 3 in the market – it keeps them on their toes and gives me the feeling I’m into something special.
I think we need to keep one thing in mind.
Sony is selling the sensors and maybe other electronics to Nikon so Sony has inside information of what is to come and could respond if Sony corporate wants to.
Of course it will!
Of course Yes, because consumers care more for highmegapixel in a low priced camera then “blabla fps” with a high price camera.
My exact reaction to this thread
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvdf5n-zI14
It’s like, D3200 = a77 as both are 24 MP cameras
Thus, President Obama = me as we both wear shirts!
Ya, okay…. but at some point not today it will come down to image quality first then features and ease of use second.
If the conventional wisdom is that SLT is not as good as DSLR or mirror less then Sony will have more problems than it can handle convincing people to buy a camera like the a37 or a57 selling for hundreds of dollars more money than a d3200.
In the age of the Internet people do research making a decision for products like cameras and sites the test and post image quality are important, like it or not and if a Nikon d3200 beats a move costly a37 or a57 and maybe a new d7100 beats both a Sony a77 or even a Canon mark III at a cheaper price point that will be a big problem for a Sony that is having big losses.
Sony needs to dump the SLT altogether and quickly move to a new design that offers all of the features of a d800e and the SLT in an A-mount.
The a99 may turn out to be a costly embarrassment and the recent rummor that talks of a low price and few new features likey is because of Nikon’s new pricing and products like the d800 and d3200.
Sony don’t need to dump SLT. Only the anti-SLT lot such as yourself want that. I really don’t understand your obsession with a third to half stop light loss.
I guess that you are the one that decides what is said here, and if not why do you keep making accusations about people motives for questioning Sony or Sony’s decisions or make statements about others so called by you perceived obsessions?
And I don’t give a damm about the so called light-loss!
Yes, I shoot full-frame and have been a Minolta/Sony shooter since the 1960’s and no I don’t yet own an SLT or a NEX and yes I do question if the SLT is the future or just a stepping stone to something else like a mirror-less and, I have a right, at least in the country I live in, to express my thoughts in writing, but unlike you I never attack others or tell them to leave and not participate here like you do.
I’m hopeful that Sony will continue and thrive and provide A-mount and NEX cameras for years to come.
Yes you do give a damn, otherwise why go on about SLT?
+10000
I agree with you Steve, SonyA77 is super annoying.
I agree with Kalpurush. By that logic the NEX-5N affected sales of the D7000. Total nonsense.
By the way I think a 5N delivers better IQ than a D7000 with appropriate glass. Didn’t stop D7000 sales.
The IQ differences we are talking about here are small. Most people won’t even bother searching for that difference and given that pretty much any camera nowadays gives you a more than decent IQ, I believe that it is all about the features today.
I don’t see anything wrong with the SLT design, and at this point it would be a very bad idea to drop it as it will completely ruin Sony’s image.
I think the reasons why any remotely comparable Nikon hurts Sony sales is not in the camera body, but in the Lens line up.
As we all know, one buys into a system. Sure, the first time buyer often makes the mistake of going for a camera, not a system. But not all. If you look at it from a view of sensor linked to lenses, then Nikon beats Sony so completely its sad.
Even if the body is objectively better on the sony, the importance of the lens line up is such, that it makes sense to go for the nikon.
Please Sony, hit that lens line up. Give us those special lenses, that force any sales person to admit that Sony has a full line up, otherwise you are anouncing to the world that Sony is just for hobbyist.
Shift, that old minolta Macro zoom, internal focussing, full metal, with motor in lense stuff. I’d buy it.
Nikon don’t have as many lenses that auto-focus on the motor-less bodies than Sony/Minolta.
Wait, are you saying that many old Nikon lenses require a motor in the body, just like Minolta, but that Nikon has not put a motor in this body, hence rendering a large chunk of their old auto focus lenses manual focus?
I have to say, if that is so, then it becomes very difficult to determine the real extend of the auto focus line-up. It may be that most buyers at this level will not know how restrictive this is, and still “feel”, like me, that Nikon has the biggest lense line up.
However, it does not change the fact that Sony is missing key lenses, and quality levels, even in the Zeiss branded lenses.
I would totally shell out for:
200mm 1.8
shift
85 1.2
Full metal, internal focussing, 2.8 zooms, with motor in the lense.
A hard core Cine Lense, as leica, and Zeiss and Canon are marketing towards slrs now.
They have the Zeiss brand, a kind of “above G” brand. Use it to make lenses that pull desire, even if they will only sell in small numbers. Heck a nice 50mm 0.95, just to make it clear, that sony will not condem the system owner to always be in a hobby system. That is after all what killed minolta.
oh and if they ever make a HOLOGON for the nex, I’d buy into that system for that lense alone, no matter how unspeakably terrible their ergonomics are.
It doesn’t make sense with Nikon, don’t know whats the plan, D3100 don’t need replacing and D300s is crying for a replacement. How are nikon gone sell their D5100 now, or D7000 ?
Valid question Roland. I wonder too…
Not had time to look at what others have said but my opinion is that unless Sony give us A65/A77 users a GOOD firmware upgrade, improving the JPG engine, tethering and especially the ISO etc, then they will definitely lose out, even Sony users are getting fed up of waiting for said improvements and may look elsewhere. Look after your existing users Sony then they will recommend your equipment to others, forget us and we will forget you just as quickly!
Sony just gave us a good firmware update.
I don’t shoot jpeg so couldn’t care less. I want tethering but I am in the minority and realise that, I’ll get by with workarounds. ISO is just fine for me in LR.
While I would welcome improvements, I think you are overstating the issues.
a77 needs more improvements – I shoot JPEG and even in day lights, the sky looks noisy at ISO 100.
Now, please do not ask to shoot me RAW as I can’t efford a new computer (my old one is really old!) at the moment.
Yes. Agree with Keith.
Sony, give us a a77 FW version 2 with all the above as Keith mentioned. So yourself a favour and make us believe. 🙂
Just ordered the Kenko Extension Tubes for NEX for EUR 165 incl. VAT in Germany ;=)
What can do with them, seriously?
Anybody looking at an entry level D3200 instead of the A77 clearly doesn’t understand what the A77 is. They don’t really require the features and ergonomics found on the A77, it is THAT simple.
When buying the A77 the thought never entered my head that I should buy anything less, I didn’t even consider the A65.
As I have long suspected from the incredibly stupid comments, many people here should go and buy a D3xxx class of camera, it suits their level of understanding…
Many people will, here there everywhere. The question was not about being right or stupid but about sales.
No arguments needed, sales will tell. Philips’s video system was technically by far the best but didn’t make it against VHS. Sales rule!
And this may therefore hurt everyone with Sony gear bcs they will not make new bodies for just a few people.
“No arguments needed, sales will tell. Philips’s video system was technically by far the best but didn’t make it against VHS. Sales rule!”
Nailed it. 🙂
I don’t like this at all. If you have Mercedes E class car and your neighbour’s Toyota has the same engine, how would you feel? D3200 effectively devalue Sony’s top end camera, Sony is very short-sighted this time.
+1
Effectively, this is what it is.
Actually, you can say that the D3200 devalues all the Canon cameras below the 5DMkIII and all the Nikon cameras below the D800. Well, of the 24mp sensor devalues cameras of one brand, it must devalue cameras of other brands as well, right?
Absolutely mega pixels are all that matters so the V1 and J1 are dead with only 10MP.
The D4 can’t possibly sell now.
Actually, I expect the D3200 to score equal or slightly better than the NEX7 on DXOmark. Currently, NEX7 and Canon’s 5Dm3 both score 81.
This basically means that Nikon’s entry-level DSLR (D3200) will outscore Canons semi-pro FF DSLR (5Dm3).
Still the assumption it’s a Sony sensor when it doesn’t look like one.
And how does that BMW 7 series driver aka 7D shooter feel when the neighbour buys a 1 series/ entry level 600D with the same engine/ sensor?
How come Mercedes and Toyota could have same engine?
Then both should be called Toyota of Mercedes, no?
Very flawed logic. Almazar80 put it very nicely.
does it kill also the Leica m9 ? come on Andrea
I totally agree wih Spoon
Also the sensor is not the same as the A77
I keep hearing this and I don’t know what to believe,
but I just returned a lighting rental and ran into a Nikon rep. at Calumet Photographic that agreed Sony was making sensors for both the a800 and the new d3200.
I asked him about other Nikon coming down the road and just smiled and said that other anouncment would be coming.
I guess that the sensors can be different and still made by Sony
I wish that I ased him about the sensor in the d800e and how that was done.
I don’t think it’ll have much of an impact on Sony sales. I was looking at what people were using on my recent vacation to the zoo and a couple of theme parks. I saw 2 NEX (3 or 5 series), 2 confirmed Sony SLT/SLR (2-3 others that looked like Sony, but I couldn’t get a good look to verify), 1 Olympus m43, 1 Nikon 1, a whole lot of Canons and what seemed like even more Nikons. I didn’t notice any Panasonic m43s. Of all the Canons and Nikons most were entry models with what looked to be the kit lens. I saw maybe a half dozen each of Canon and Nikon advanced models.
It seems to me that the people who buy Sonys have made the decision to do so rather than being an average uninformed consumer that decided to go with Sony. The average consumers seem to be sticking with the Canon and Nikon entry level models.
I partially agree with you. I don’t think anyone has ever purchased an Alpha because a sales rep talked them into it. I think that for the most part, Alpha owners chose what camera they wanted because they educated themselves beyond most normal shoppers.
Unfortunately, uninformed entry level buyers who might of bought a Sony will now feel like they are a bad deal, because they see a megapixel count and don’t know that there is far more to a camera than that…
“I’m tired of your disingenuous assertions.”
Hummm!!!
What if Sony made a deal to help Nikon become number one seller. Sony wins on both sides…Nikon become number one, more sensor to sell + more easy to become the new number 2nd 😉
Nikon is dreaming to become the number one camera manufacturer, he is just asking Sony some help and in the other hand Nikon gives some of image treatments algorythm 😉 Lets wait and see if am right when Sony will release A99 😀
Sony and Nikon, it’s just like Audi and VW 🙂
I believe Nikon actually pays less for the sensor than Sony even though it is from Sony. The image sensor is actually from Sony Semiconductor and Components business where as the cameras are from the Sony Imaging division within the Sony Electronics business. They are 2 separate businesses under the Sony name, so Sony Semiconductor’s success has more to do with how many sensors they sell rather than how many sony cameras are sold. Because of Nikon is a larger customer than Sony Imaging, Nikon has gets the sensor for a lower price. They also get exclusivity windows such as the new FF sensor in the D800, which isn’t even in any Sony camera yet.
In corporations like Sony and Nikon each division is its own profit center and its very possible that Nikon is buying sensors from Sony at a delivered cost lower than the Sony division that makes the Alpha’s.
It’s easy to see why?
What is harder is to understand what that means for Alpha
So far, based only on what has been shown publicly and not just rumored, it doesn’t look good if you are hoping to see from Sony camera bodies that deliver pro features and deliver better IQ than Nikon d800e’s or Canon’s best and the full-frame optics that support them.
and yes Mr. SonyA77 the a77 is the best crop sensor on the market and it is a SLT………..happy? 😉
Anything with a Nikon badge will hurt Sony sales.
It wont hurt sony sales or business because sony sell more sensor now 😀 but it hurt a77, a65 users provided D3200 performed better in one or two areas which we will going to witness it soon how power 24mp in expeed3.
If this 24mp fall in nikon can deliver better IQ, high ISO, then could be a push to sony to improve their downsize. unless sony sit do not thing and wish your jump to cheaper FF 😀
It won’t hurt the professional range, but it will kill Sony’s entry level cams. Sadly, the uninformed public only views the megapixel war and doesn’t understand that cameras are far more than just a MP count.
Hell, I’m tired of the MP war, I love my Alphas, but Sony needs to come up with a low noise/high iso camera to compete with the D3S/D4.
My question is whether the d3200 will affect their own d400 or d700? Stupid move on Nikon for putting such a large sensor on that cheap camera.
The two top cameras and the bottom d3200 got the makeover first.
A Nikon rep said the rest will follow real soon.
I’n not sure what sensors are left, but the 24MP rumored for the a99 likley will also go into a Nikon.
Its going to really shakeup pricing having a Sony 24MP sensor in the low end d3200 that’s is very close to the current Sony flagship a77.
The Sony a77 is a better camera than the d3200 but expect Nikon to release several soon to fill in the gap between the d3200 and the d800
Nikon will have a strong line-up and Canon and Sony will need to follow with something soon……real soon.
lol There is no D400 and the D700 is a FX aka full-frame camera. The D3200’s sensor is as smal as any other DX sensor below the D700.
General public doesn’t understand features like us and the Nikon brand is stronger than Sony in SLR with a lot of shelf space at big box retailers. Now Sony is no small fry, but Nikon will also get a huge recommend from pro type friends so it looks like Sony screwed itself by selling their best sensors. Think about it – you get the great Sony sensor in a Nikon.
I think Sony was hard up for cash and made a decision without thinking how it hurts their lineup. The D3200 disrupts Sony SLTs more so than Canon. I’m shocked Nikon screwed a fellow Japanese company.
Sony now needs to completely re-think their cameras. It’s time for an A-Mount NEX. They need to go full balls out mirrorless to differentiate their product fom Nikon and Canon. If Sony doesn’t change the way they execute they will be bankrupt.
Sony has a contract to provide sensors for Nikon, among many customers. It’s a business. This brand loyalty, feature envy, whatever doesn’t make anyone a better photographer. Fanboy, yes. Photographer? Probably not.
I’m not sure about Sony becoming bankrupt…
Sony has never been a player and always a far third place to the big two.
My fear is Sony will drop out of the A-mount, maybe sell it or just let it slowly die by not releasing lenses and not trying to meet price/performance to keep its users and then sell Sony technology to some else……ops that what happening, Sony sell it’s sensors!
No, seriously Sony has some great products and can compete and better both Canon and Nikon because the future is not mirrors and gears but electronics and Sony is all about electronics.
Sony just needs to decide it what’s to do it!
People saying it wont hurt the sales of the a77 due to the a77 being semi pro & the Nikon being entry level are missing something very important.
When the majority of people buy into a system, they become loyal to the system.
Of course none of the people buying the d3200 will look at the a77…. They will look at the d400 as their upgrade.
It’s been rumored that the d300 replacement the d400 will have a 24MP full-frame………….
will Sony sell the rumored a99 sensor to Nikon for its d400?
I bet it will!
It’s all about making money! If Sony can make money by selling sensor, why not?
It’s easier selling sensors than making cameras and it’s not even a done deal as customers might not buy them.
Can’t blame Sony!
behind the curtain, I believe Sony works very close together with Nikon, to beat Canon together! It is absolutely not that Sony against Nikon play that most think to advertise here
The thing is, your average punter will look for a good deal and a name that seems like one to trust. If the Nilkon can produce images as good as the A65, or A77 and is cheaper, then Sony will lose sales.
I tried very hard to pursued a mate to purchase a Sony. But he bought a (scary) Nikon, because it more common in the photography world and because it was on special offer. He even agreed that images from my NEX were better quality than the Nikon (before he bought it), but claimed the Sony was too expensive.
We choose Sony because we do our homework and we’re prepared to spend more money for a better camera. However the bulk of the market will continue to buy Canons and Nikons all the time they’re more popular and they’re cheaper.
btw, my last camera was a Canon 60D, and after owning it for a few days I was already disappointed with it (no matter how great the reviews were). When the 5N came out and produced better quality images, while being far more portable… I haven’t used the Canon since.
Thinking about it more – Sony’s strength is in mirror less, looking at Amazon.com right now and you can see that the top ten selling items in the ‘Mirrorless’ section. #1, #2, #5, #6 and #8 are all Sonys. They dominate this market, even with the Nikon 1 series having a $200 discount!
Maybe these sales are where Sony will get up-graders from, instead of fighting the heavily dominated cheap DSLR market?
What kind of logic is that, seriously? The NEX-5n should’ve killed sales of all Nikon, Olympus, Panasonic, Pentax and some Canon cameras then!
Wait, are you saying that many old Nikon lenses require a motor in the body, just like Minolta, but that Nikon has not put a motor in this body, hence rendering a large chunk of their old auto focus lenses manual focus?
I have to say, if that is so, then it becomes very difficult to determine the real extend of the auto focus line-up. It may be that most buyers at this level will not know how restrictive this is, and still “feel”, like me, that Nikon has the biggest lense line up.
However, it does not change the fact that Sony is missing key lenses, and quality levels, even in the Zeiss branded lenses.
I would totally shell out for:
200mm 1.8
shift
85 1.2
Full metal, internal focussing, 2.8 zooms, with motor in the lense.
A hard core Cine Lense, as leica, and Zeiss and Canon are marketing towards slrs now.
They have the Zeiss brand, a kind of “above G” brand. Use it to make lenses that pull desire, even if they will only sell in small numbers. Heck a nice 50mm 0.95, just to make it clear, that sony will not condem the system owner to always be in a hobby system. That is after all what killed minolta.
oh and if they ever make a HOLOGON for the nex, I’d buy into that system for that lense alone, no matter how unspeakably terrible their ergonomics are.
And that average punter feels that Nikon and Canon are the names to trust, because ALL the pros use them and only them. And because one look at the back of the catalogue shows you why: the got huge systems.
I have been a minolta shooter from my first camera on (that yellow waterproof thing). My dad had the 7000 and bought into the system with the 9xi, which I think still is a awesome camera (and unlike my a55 still works with 100% reliability across god knows what terain). BUT, I have to recommend friends to buy into either canon or nikon. Because I know these brands are serious about the ability to UPGRADE to the top level. Minolta was not, and it looks like sony is not either.
Some nice feature in this years mid range body do NOT make up for a lack of long term commitment to bring out the best camera in the world, as nikon and canon do with their top models.
Therefore it is objectively safer to buy into those two brands, than into sony.
Again, I am sad to say this, I totally WANT sony to domintate, having so loyal to the brand. But it just needs more than a couple of technological advances, that the others will in the long run implement and implement into better systems.
Autofocus was the same story, as some may recall.
Sony needs to do a better job of marketing their Alpha line – especially in terms of nontraditional marketing and social media. Sony made a bold decision to walk away from the traditional OVF based DSLR. Lots of photographers who are stuck in their ways will hate that, but I have never been happier with a camera than I am with my a77. It’s an entirely different beast and I think it will be very appealing to the next generation of photographers. I really believe what Sony is doing with their EVFs is revolutionary and will be the future of DSLRs, but Sony is doing a poor job of marketing.
I always get a rolled-eye “Whatever” look from photographer friends when I pull out my a77. And then, when I hand them the camera, they’re usually stunned by the experience of using an EVF.
For photography, this is a whole new world, but it doesn’t matter how revolutionary Sony Alphas are if Sony doesn’t do a good job of letting people know what their Alphas can do.
I think Sony should lower the price of the A77. It’s almost a year since it was announced.
Sony wont drop the price, but retailers already have. The only time Sony will drop the price officially is when they think it sees serious, cheaper competition or its nearing the end of its lifetime, or sales are seriously slumped.
Yes!
The D400 with this sensor is what will hurt A77 sales by which time Sony will prob have a next gen 24MP sensor!
Thank you A900 Tog, exactly my feelings. It is Sony’s sensor but they haven’t seemed to be able to control the noise as well as Nikon. WHY I wonder. Come on Sony, the cameras are GREAT, just give us another good firmware upgrade for our existing A65/A77’s but this time concentrate on noise etc. Then you will have no worries at all about Nikon etc.