It’s three months now that I am waiting and working to get news about the new Sony roadmap. I told you that the SLT-FF cameras planed for 2013 have been taken off the map. Now, I am administrator of a rumor site and I have to remind you that we are not talking about official news.
That said… trust my words, the A-mount system is well alive and it will be so in future. Sony didn’t take off the SLT-FF cameras from the roadmap because they don’t believe in the A-mount system. The reason is another one. And that reason will be explained soon on SAR (as soon as I get an SR5 confirmation).
One more thing: When I write the A-mount is alive..I also mean that it will not rely on A to E mount adapters1 There will be 100% pure A-mount cameras in future. APS-C and Full Frame.
147 Responses
I hope this means the AF sensor and main sensor are being combined! No more complaints about SLT lost light, and still all the advantages of the SLT system…
There is no need for both standalone PDAF and hybrid PDAF: they are both waste of resources. Damn, researches have been already invented software methods that let us to estimate defocus sign and defocus value. Use it, don’t waste resources on hopeless hybrid crap.
Measurement (including direction) > estimation.
Sorry dude, you are wrong. IRL there is no “measurement” estimation only. In other words, the PDAF system provides ESTIMATION OF DEFOCUS SIGN AND DEFOCUS VALUE, otherwise there were no back-front focus problems.
It’s called measurement with an error margin, which every measurement has, “dude”.
The algorithms you talk about have a lot more guesswork involved and will not hit a homerun without wobbling around, hence the laughable tracking capabilities. PDAF systems can hit a homerun.
Roger Cicala has shown that at least the latest Canon system is pretty much in line with the best CDAF systems in terms of accuracy.
@opponent
So weak…
1) «Measurement of something within error margin» IS estimation of this “something”, you Mr Philologist.
2) What properties of PDAF makes it less prone of hunting compared to CDAF? Obviously these are its ability of evaluation of defocus sign and value. So, any method which can measure these characteristics will have similar tracking performance.
3) CDAF cannot make these by design, so obviously I didn’t mind it. In well known research (by Johannes Burge and Wilson Geisler) I mentioned they exploits well known fact of different angles of refraction and thus basically different PSFs for different wavelengths. It shares principles of animal (and human too) eye focusing, by the way.
4) The Roger Cicala’s “investigation” is a piece of joke. I won’t even comment this crap, because it is laughable: there was no enough material to make any conclusion.
The weak part is addressing someone you don’t know with “dude” and then wondering why it bounces back when you throw in semantics as a bonus.
No matter how you twist and turn, a CDAF system cannot measure distance. Notice the word “measure”. Any CDAF algorithm has to rely on at least one cycle of trial and error (usually many) to define the focus point within set tolerances. A good PDAF system *can* (not to be confused with “will always”) often hit that point without trial and error. Key difference.
Now try again.
Oh and the joke is on you. You made a claim without test support and then ridicule Roger’s tests because “there wasn’t enough material”. Muha.\
The man has tested more cameras than you have seen in your life and for this test he used several cameras and several lenses, tested multiple times with an eye on Std Dev.
Where’s your material?
No,that is not the reason for back and frontfocus. these issues are due to image sensor and af sensor are due two different sensors , introducing alignment issues.
I am stunned that anybody actually needs reassurance of this. The A mount system is still very competitive, and offers many advantages over the E mount, such as sensor-based stabilization, decades of PDAF technology development, larger capacity batteries, weather-sealed bodies, and native full frame lenses and imagers.
Some of this could be adapted into E mount bodies, but Sony hasn’t done. Clearly Sony intend to keep both lines going.
Ok, now we got that out of the way, can we get the NEX rumors flowing, please ?!
🙂
+1
You said there will be A mount cameras, so are they moving to just mirrorless cameras?
I can live with that (just got a a99 to replace A900)
which one do you like better?
I like that news! 🙂
Another part of the rumor will be tomorrow. Like trailer.
It’s very simple: If Sony releases an A-mount now then they will be overshadowed by the 20 cameras coming out this year by Canikon. Best to wait and offset their releases with better sensors, software, etc… At least that’s what I’m hoping. I’m happy with my 6D but if they make an a88 that matches it in low light and in-camera jpg processing then I’ll sell my 6D in a heartbeat. Granted the a88 is priced the same.
For some people no manufacturer can release any camera that won’t be overshadowed by Canikon duopoly 😉 For other people Sony already successfully releases cameras that weren’t overshadowed (like A57 or A77).
In about 50 comments or so this place will look like a shouting contest
So do you have any more news on the A78 I know it was previously mentioned around the US summer however now with the mentioned A88 depending on timeframe may hold out for that.
I am glad to hear A mount will be around. I love the system and don’t think I would enjoy E mount.
I love the A-mount 🙂
I always wonder why people are so focused on gear and needing a camera that has better specs than the next brand. I am very happy with Sony. I have shot SLT cameras for three years and enjoy EVFs. I have a full view picture of the Multnomah Falls in OR that I printed poster size and placed it in my office at work. It was shot handheld at 1/10 th of a sec with an a55 several years ago. If you we’re to listen to some people that camera is a piece of junk. I don’t care about their opinions. I will form my own preferences by using equipment myself. I don’t need to wear a hat with Nikon or Canon written above the brim to feel like I can take a good picture. Sometimes I will walk up to the picture of the waterfall in my office and look at the detail of the people at the bridge and smile at the IQ. My point is that our technical skills are more important than the gear. My enjoyment with photography is more important than the gear. Our best subjects were not manufactured they are living beings. Go shoot the world it is amazing.
So you’re basically saying they are ditching SLT for mirrorless A-mount?
And exactly which sentence made you think of that?
Just trying to read between the lines. Is it not possible to have A-mount mirrorless?
Never doubted it for a minute.
No Frank around? Trolling how A-mount is dead and we’ll use adapters, and bla bla bla?
I guess he is doing now what he should have: Eating his own words and crawling back under the rock he came from.
naaah…sir whinesalot will find some thing to whine about, thats for sure
He’ll be here. Can’t expect a man to be in front of a computer all the time, even when there’s a post that runs against the very fabric of his existence.
I guess this was admins way of “stop the A-mount is dead b-sheet” to our Frank-mount comment-colleague… Can’t say I’ll miss the 10 A-mount death wishes to every post here…
Looking at the calendar, I hope that the SR5 confirmation will not come on Monday. 🙂
Good one… 😀
yaaaayy… like it.
Hi Admin,
Can;t you just post what you know and make it an SR3 or something? As you keep reminding us, this is just a rumors website 🙂
When you have more evidence that it is true, then add more details and raise it to an SR5.
Thanks!
Good point!!!!
great point!
what are they planning on!!!? it’s just a rumor!
No, no, no! Don’t do that Admin. it’s a trap! They want you to release that rumor do we can see another 768 comment post about how bad that decision was by Sony and how they selling their gear…
I thoroughly disagree. The thing that distinguishes this site, that makes it markedly better than other “rumor sites,” is that Andrea discriminates between rumors, that he makes informed judgments about them. He doesn’t just pass them on.
But if the Admin waited till everything was SR5 then this site simply becomes a news site, not a rumors site.
Even trusted sources get it wrong. ISOs into the hundreds of thousands, etc.
Sony really needs to do a better job of showing its commitment to the A mount. I have a pile of full frame capable A mount glass. Full frame cameras are starting to take hold and like many photographers I am eager to finally jump in. However, I am hesitant to buy the A99 until I know more about Sony’s plans for the future. A full frame camera will lead to some very high end glass purchases. If I buy for Nikon say I know it will fit future bodies a decade out; with Sony though I am not so sure. The whole collapse of Minolta spooked me, and Sony has not done enough to reassure people like me. I know some other people in the same boat. In the meantime I wait, and that is a lost sale for Sony.
Maybe it is alive but seems to be in coma.
SONY should give us new or updated A-mount lenses soon. Already announced lenses are good news but none of them I need. I want high quality fast telezoom for my A77. But there is not such a lens on the market. Current 70-200/2.8 lenses have good resolution for FF but they do not certainly good enough resolution for 24Mpx APS-C sensor.
you do realize that a ff sensor would be harder on the lens than a 24mpx aps-c crop sensor, if its good on the A99 or A900 it is certainly good for the A77.
It of course depends on your expectations but if I spend $2000 for 70-200G I expect better result then 8MPx resolution at sweep spot of the lens from 24Mpx APS-C camera.
Sure they do.
Sorry, but they donn´t. Pixel size in APS-C 24Ppx camera is much smaller then in A700 or A99. OK, I can downsize 24Mpx to 12Mpx and I get A700 resolution of 12Mpx but what is the point of having 24Mpx camera then?
> The reason is another one.
“I hear steps of the Commendatore!”
good news … a-mount is oldie but goldie. If Sony fails on the FF market, the a-mount has nothing to do with it. The old fashion managers made a lot strategic mistakes. Same thing as Minolta did.
Hopefully that means mirrorless, full frame and in camera stabilization.
Sony should also include one version for high res fanatics like me (56mp) and one for those wanting the highest possible quality at current resolutions.
Please sony do not forsake your high resolution fans and do it soon.
Absolutely!
Question for animalbybarry: does the canon announcement of a high MP camera tempts you?
This is my third try to answer my responses keep vanishing.
If canons high resolution camera becomes available before sony even anounces one I will switch even though i prefer to stay with sony.
If sony forces me to make my entire investment in sony products I solemnly promrise this.
I will never purchase another sony product in my life nor will i allow any family member to do so.
Sony the clock is ticking dont let your camera business go down the toilet.
Thank you
I think they could and should design an A99 variant with 50MP with roughly half the performance outside the AF of the 25MP.
50MP = $3200
– No anti aliasing filter
– 2 fps continuous
– 1600 ISO / 3200 Expandable
– Built in ND filters
– Video at 24MP
Sony could do this to the A99 via firmware only. Call it the the A99 II and it would serve a niche that only the D800E is getting right now.
While the A99 can remain a great all around camera the A99 II would be great for studio and landscape shooters.
I would want this camera but some would live it.
Here are some additional thoughts, besides the a-mount discussion. -> http://kotaku.com/5960411/how-sony-is-turning-into-a-ghost-in-japan-and-around-the-world
@Eisenvater
I just read it – Just note, you should take that article with a grain of salt. Jake Adelstein, (one of the authors), has shown a bit of bias in that people should not be too successful (over others) and that companies should not get too big. Also, I think he *may* be a Canon fan.
b.
This seems a perfectly logical step. They didn’t make the 500mm f/4.0 lens for a system they planned to abandon in a few years.
You have to imagine there 36mp+ cameras coming down the road, they can’t compete in the high end DSLR segment and give that away to Nikon. My only question is how they do PDAF. Will it be an evolution of the hybrid system like the Nex-6, or something new?
I know sony won’t do that. A-Mount will live on.
bahaha sony A is well dead, you nad me can only rely on Nex!!
Frank, is that you? 😀
Patiently waiting for a Mirrorless A-mount Full Size body from Sony.
Yeah. With IBIS.
IBIS is not possible with CDAF.
Olympus seem to have managed it just fine !
Hopefully news of a mid-level or even upper level APS-C camera coming soon. the A58 is decidedly entry level. So if you want a Sony Alpha SLT with technology that is less than a year old, your only choices right now are the full frame A99, and the entry level A58. How about *something* in between? Where is the A67 or A68, or the A78?
I’m hoping for a A78 announcement soon, even if it’s just upgrading the A77 sensor.
This sounds so very much like what a700 users got, lots of reassurances that there would be a new OVF DSLR to replace the a700 and in the end we were cut off cold. No OVF DSLR at all. Even if Sony says it directly it’s hardly something to trust anymore.
What’s a Walt without doom and gloom? Move on.
Thank you Andrea.
Nobody is getting “crazy” here except for Sony.
the A6x would be nice to hear about but i think i ll get the A65 and then wait for the mirrorless Amount in 6-8 years
I shoot the A850 with lots of Zeiss and G Glass, I own the Nex 5 & 7 with EVERY lens for that system including the Zeiss 24. I was actually spending more time worrying about the future of Sony than I was taking pictures. I just switched to Canon 5d Mark III and L series Glass. I take Stills. Canon is definitely in that market. Life is way too short.
Alpha mount — zzzzzzz… Only 100 people care. The DSLR world didn’t even know Alpha DSLT exist.
The current huge discounts on Fuji’s X series is making me think. So much speculations about a frankenstein FF NEX is making me rethink my investment in NEX. Frack the A mount. Sony’s appeasement of these 100 people will make me decide whether to drop NEX or not. If they make the FF NEX a lot bigger to accomodate the A mount that no one wants, then I’m done with Sony.
Agree. Plus Fuji X is pleasure to use camera unlike NEX, especially NEX-5r and NEX-6, where Sony managed to waste advantages of additional control wheel.
I’m tempted, but the rumors of the FF NEX keeps me in the NEX camp. I am hoping for some synergy between the FF and APS-C NEX lenses. If Sony choses to frankenstein their FF NEX and make it bigger to appease the dozen or so A mount owners, it’ll be adios, Sony.
some how i cant believe that there are more nex users then Amount users. seeing how A mount has been around much longer
You must be kidding. Few people bought the Alpha, while Sony sold millions of NEX. The DSLR market, in general, is not very big, and Sony’s share of that market is very tiny.
A marketing company I work with did a study of number of camera users in the Pittsburgh, PA area. Based off of a survey of 1,500 random adults. Out of a total of just over 230,000 adults who live in Pittsburgh, their study suggested that 13% own a DSLR (thats just under 30,000 people). Of those 30,000, just 2,700 (or 9%) own Sony DSLR/SLT models. Most own Canon, then Nikon, then Sony.
Now, if we apply this ratio to the entire United States adult camera owning population, we get at least 30 million DSLR’s, and at least 2.7 million Sony DSLR/SLT’s. Some people own more than one DSLR, so these numbers are minimum.
Thats more than 100…
Jack
You should just go to the Fuji X series. You will get good jpgs but have bad AF, horrible video, poor RAW support, and no hope of ever seeing a FF mirrorless.
A number of every good cameras do not have a tillable screen. What are they thinking? Do they really think people enjoy lying on the ground. I like shots from low and high angles. So for me no tilting screen no purchase. I am enjoying my nex 6 and em5 thank you very much.
To be totally honest, I dont believe this rumor at all. Sure, SONY will release a few more A-mount cameras this year, but they’re not going to release anything new after 2013 is over. Not based on the momentum they’ve proven…to E-mount and away from A-mount.
Unless that is, someone at corporate threw a dart at their ‘What the hell do we do?!’ board and it landed on ‘continue development of A-mount’.
I think the higher up’s at SONY are a real life example of the inanity at Dunder-Mifflin on ‘The Office’ TV show. Amazing innovation. Amazing technology. But. No plan. No accountability. No real marketing effort. Always chasing short term profit.
Jack
Sony quarterly report shows thats interchangeable lens system sales are strong and have increased year to year. If A-mount was holding them back they would say so. At the beginning of 2012 the top digital still camera makers in terms of sales are Canon, Sony, Nikon, Samsung and Fuji. Sony has admitted that they are loosing tons of money in the compact point and shoot area due to mobile phones.
Right now Sony has 8-SLT’s in production with the oldest of these released OCT 2011
α99
α65
α65V
α77
α77V
α57
α37
α58
They have 5 NEX models (not including the camcorders) with the oldest model launching AUG 2011
NEX-7
NEX-F3
NEX-5R
NEX-6
NEX-3N (releasing this year)
If you look interchangeable lens sales data from Sony every year since 2009, you will see that they’ve always been profitable with these cameras. The 1st NEX only came out mid year in 2010 and the NEX 7 only came out the following summer in 2011. Due to flooding they where hard to buy for nearly a year after their release date. This all while the A-Mount was constant with new models. Just like the A-Mount, the vast majority of NEX sales have come by way of the lowest end models aimed at consumers who no longer wanted cheap P&S’s with worse IQ than their phones.
Just by looking at the dates, models, and Sony financials over the last 5 years, you would be foolish to believe that the A-Mount isn’t profitable. All the evidence shows that it has been a reliable area of growth and the origin why they’ve went all in with digital imaging these days.
I agree with what you’ve said. I’m sure it’s profitable, but I dont believe that its as profitable as NEX. And based on SONY’s latest actions, they probably feel the same way.
Even if it’s not as profitable (which is probably true), it doesn’t mean the line will be dropped. It’s like Apple dropping the iPad becauase it’s not as profitable as the iPhone. Or Canon dropping APS-C because it’s not as profitable as FF.
It doesn’t make any sense unless you have exact financial plus market figures and insight in the halo effects.
Correct. SONY never would drop it if they werent struggling hard to make money. SONY, and all Japanese electronics companies, are being crippled by Korean competition, and the global financial trouble. SONY probably doesnt want to drop anything, but if they do, it will be in order to stay in business. It will probably be some of their TV division, and their Imaging division. In their Imaging division, point and shoots will be cut back, and so might the A-mount.
Industry loves to cut lower yield product lines, even if they’re still making money. They can then focus more resouces on the higher yield lines (NEX).
The camera industry is one area where Korean companies have made almost no in-roads. The NX (which is by no means a bad camera system) is only successful in the Korean domestic market, and LG make no cameras at all.
If Sony wanted to focus on profitable businesses they’d stop making damn TVs. The company’s problem is the opposite, the refusal to leave a market even if it’s causing them to bleed red ink year after year.
Actions speak louder than words, limited full frame lenses for their flag ship A99.. Overpriced Zeiss optics, Subpar video capability on a video-centric SLT camera,
No affordable F4 glass, A-mount is on life support and Sony looks to be just pondering pulling the cord… And if Sony does kill the A-mount I’m sure the A-mount users aren’t going to bother picking up anymore Sony gear / E-mount based cameras
^This.
Not just that, however. If (when) SONY pulls the plug and lets A-mount die, its going to be a very public death, especially on social media (and I’m sure it will be headline news for a short period of time as well). After that happens, very few new users are going to play with E-mount either, for fear it will get sick and SONY will pull the plug on that too.
SONY has some major decisions to make. They’re quite honestly at a fork in the road. One direction takes them through a major PR nightmare and eventual exit from the digital camera market, and the other direction takes them into financial woes trying to support two systems, one of which is ‘on life support’.
What is SONY doint about this decision? They’re starting down the PR nightmare route, graffiting the roadside signs to read ‘A-mount/E-mount combined system! Yay!’ and pretending everything will be fine.
Life support how? Substantiate that, because no one is served with guesswork. If it’s on life support, Pentax would have been dead years ago and it’s not.
The difference is that Pentax isnt as big as SONY. Pentax is pretty much only an imaging company, whereas SONY is diversified. Pentax isnt dead because if Pentax kills their DSLRs, ineffect thats a much larger chunk of their business than if SONY kills its SLT’s. Pentax is like Panasonic, Olympus (which btw is also hurting badly financially) and other small players – they will never willingly kill off anything, cause they’re holding on to every little scrap sale they can get, just to stay alive.
Excuse that typo – Panasonic should not be listed – they’re in the same boat as SONY.
Imaging is one of the 4 pillars of Sony, as also proclaimed by the new CEO recently.
Pentax is owned by Ricoh, and for Ricoh, it’s not much less than the above, but certainly not more (about 13% of the Ricoh revenues) either.
Overpriced Zeiss optics are not a sign Sony is giving up, it’s a sign Sony is being Sony. They always try to price their products higher, even in fields where their products are inferior.
I hope Sony leaves all of its mid-fi to the NEX line, and reserves A-mount for “pro” implementation.
Since I have a nice bunch of expensive A-mount glass, I would be willing to spend a good chunk of change on a pro Sony FF to replace my a850
full-size
IBIS
mirrorless
fully sealed
A-mount
live view
robust accessory suite
2 available resolutions–monster, and zero-noise super-fast 12-16MP
I don’t even care if it’s EVF/OVF.
This is the only Sony camera on which I would spend lots of money.
The only advantages I would value over the a850 would be live view, mirrorless, and either high-speed/low noise, or super-high resolution; faster focusing would be nice, but not essential.
Ultraviolet?
Infrared?
X-rays too?
I have switched to e-mount but that was because I like having two small cameras with two different primes and still have room for some small lenses. I don’t really think A-mount was dead. The A99 gets a lot of praise even from canikon owners. The better E-mount does the better A-mount will do in my opinion.
Sony won’t quit Alpha, I’m not worried about that. I’m just a bit worried if Sony is going to show some commitment to it besides the ultra expensive FF lenses. Sony still has to establish themselves and didn’t finish yet what the A900 started.
History teaches you that your thinking might be wrong. Minolta abandoned the SR-mount, much to the frustration of its users. Canon abandoned their FD-mount.
Again – drop the imagination that mirrorless cameras with improved PDAF sensors-on-chip in the future is going to replace cameras with separate PDAF sensors (with moving or non-moving mirrors).
THIS WILL NEVER EVER HAPPEN!
It is simply NOT POSSIBLE for PDAF sensors-on-chip to come close to PDAF off-chip-sensors in performance such as speed and low light capability. The PDAF on-chip-sensors limitations are not caused by technical problems, the limitations is in the laws of nature.
Fast and good low light PDAF sensors need to be HUGE.
PDAF on-chip-sensors need to be VERY SMALL, not much more than single pairs of RGGB photodiode groups. Large blobs of PDAF sensors on the image chip will cause massive and NON-CORRECTABLE artifacts in the image.
Sony CAN’T ditch the A-mount. And they have repeatadly said that they are in this for the long haule. Generally, Japanese companies are planning decades into the future, completely opposite to the western companies quarter-report-capitalism.
With the small market share Sony A-mount have TODAY, they can’t right away give us all that we want – a bigger system than Canon and Nikon has now. It will take time to build a “complete” system (no one has ever offered that, not even Hasselblad).
In fact, Sony is already today offering a lens lineup that is considerably larger than what their present selling and market shares would justify. And, as already said, they have just introduced a 500/4,0 superzoom lens. Extremely expensive to design and produce. Would be complete madness to do that if Sony had plans to drop the A-mount!
.
>Again – drop the imagination that mirrorless cameras with improved PDAF sensors-on-chip in the future is going to replace cameras with separate PDAF sensors (with moving or non-moving mirrors).
Yes, yes, the digital will never replace the film… Tell that to my grandma.
Considering that we still use Minolta A-Mount lenses from 1984 (yeah, 30 years old next year) and they are mostly in better condition than three years old current Sony/Zeiss plasticky lenses we can say that Minolta will survive next 30 years without problem. But will Sony do?
It has just come to my attention that sony is comming out with a high megapixel camera.
If this becomes availabl and sony still gives no indication of comming out with one i will reluctantly be forced to switch.
If sony forces me to make my entire investment useless i promise that niether i nor any family member nor anyone willing to listen to me will ever buy another sony product in my lifetime.
Sony the clock is ticking.
Correction…Canon is comming out with a high mp camera.
I guess i was so upset i typed the wrong name.
I’m tending to agree with Jack. What exactly are you shooting that requires more than 36 mp? I was in the Lik gallery recently and even his recent stuff is shot with the D800E. His prints get fairly large and they seem to satisfy most pixel peepers.
I guess with more megapixels, you can crop images but can’t you just spend more time on composition?
Animals dont allow us to pose them and no camera alive will resolve ever hair scale or feather in crisp detail. Plus see my answer to jack
The ONLY reason the best stuff out there is only shot with 36the mp is they dont yet have a better camera.
When a higher res camera with e omes available that is better than anything now available you will get on
And it will happen but sony may not still be around to see it.
Forthermore jack says sony doesnt owe me anything.
They do if they want my business otherwise i certainly do not owe them anything
BARRY, JUST GET THE CANON!!!
Barry,
24-36 MP is more than enough for 99% of everyone. I shoot archival quality prints of artwork with my D800E and its always given more than enough resolution for our clients. If you ‘need’ 50+ megapixel, you’re doing something wrong. And, trust me, you wont be happy with a 50+ MP camera, like you think you will.
SONY owes you nothing. They never made a promise that they would release a 50+ megapixel camera, or release one before Canon. Are you justified for being upset if you feel forced to swtich systems? Sure. But you cannot blame SONY even in the slightest. If you bought into the SONY system knowing it wasnt meeting your needs, or believing that they would release a 50+ MP camera on your schedule, thats your own fault.
I cannot believe the delusional entitlement from some people. Wow.
Jack
24-36 mp is absolutele totally not good enough for those of us that need mord it’s just just the best we currently have available. Back when 3 megapixals was state of the art i had exactly the same arguments with people who said no one needs more than 3 megapixels.
They were wrong then and you are wrong now. You just don’t have know it yet.
I dont try to discourage the making of a 24 mp camera for people like you. I can’t keep understand why you want to discoursge a higher mp option for us.
When the rest of the world is shooting 200+ megapixels will you still be holding out for 24.
If so why aren’t you still shooting your 3 megapixel camera
My statement that “24-36 MP is enough” is my opinion, I’m not discouraging anything. If you feel you need more, maybe you do. I just cant imagine a situation where that is the case. Even 24 MP has the potential to show an unbelievable amount of detail.
My response to you was written because you cannot blame SONY like you tried to do. If they’re not meeting your needs as fast as you need, that’s not their fault. Thats 100% on you.
I think Barry is on drugs.
Barry, maybe if you want 50mpixel you should go grab a Hasselblad and stop waiting!
Try lugging a hassy with a full array if of lenses invuding the 2000mm you would need for anything even resembling a distant animal. Carry also the giant flood lights you would need to get enough light for your hassy. And carry also the tranquilizing gun you would need to get the animals to hold still.
Do all that and then come back and tell me why you think i should be using a hasselbad.
As for the referrence to drugs that is both untrue and uncalled for. I am attacking your ideas not you personally.
A tool should be appropriate to the task.
Since you mention it, I do in fact still shoot 5mp much of the time, although I also have an A850.
Different tools, for different tasks–and there are definitely photographic tasks that will benefit substantially from more than 24MP
This is exactly right, and what so many seem to ‘forget’ these days. The higher end cameras are meant not as fun toys, or “look at me, look at me” devices, but as tools. They are designed to get a job done to the shutter actuator can get paid.
If a mechanic’s tools arent meeting his needs, he changes tools. He doesnt whine and wish and wait for the maker to release something that will work for him. If its a business decision, its a no-brainer.
The standard for art reproduduction and also for printing is 300ppi.
24mp is only good enouph for 20×16″
36mp is good enough for about 24×18″
If thats the biggest you ever need than you can argue good enough mayby.
That of course allows nothing for cropping.
We accept what we have only because we don’t have better.
When we have better no one will accept what we now have as good enough.
Dont forget people buy what they want more than what they need. If people buy a high mp camera in because they want it its still a camera sold.
I think the main issue with cramming more megapixels onto the existing format (asides from the challenges with decreased SNR and more noise), is that the sensor resolution will out-resolve any of the current available lenses, not to mention the extra noise generated by the smaller sensor sites. IMO You’d get similar results from interpolating a 24 megapixel image to 48 megapixel. I think this will be a factor until the traditional lens>sensor format is done away with, ie http://www.stuff.tv/news/cameras/news-nugget/the-future-of-photography-%E2%80%93-whats-next-for-cameras
Robin
Rubish
We are talking about scaling up c at 24mp to full frame 56mp.
No differnce in quaility or iso or niose or anything ekse from the a77.
Almost every high quality prime lens will ouperform that.
Crap lenses and zoom lenses will not.
Plus all youre lenses will work as well or better than they ever did.
Plus manufacturers can and will make even better ones.
For more details read any of my previous 999comments to the same ridiculous supperstiions.
CanonJack: “I shoot archival quality prints of artwork with my D800E and its always given more than enough resolution for our clients.”
This is a reflection of your clients and perhaps the type of art they are photographing and for what purpose, not of photographic requirements in general.
Even years ago I was having art–real art–shot with super-high-res MF scanbacks. Why? Documentation prior to auction. The highest possible rendition of detail is required to document condition, to detect any changes that occur over time.
If you’re shooting simple art for those who want to sell prints of their work, maybe…but old oils, for auction, insurance, and transfer, forget it.
Also, for enlarging to wall-size–which I have had done more than once–forget it, unless you have a simple image on which some algorithm like bicubic resizing will work adequately.
We’ve rented MF for very specific conditions, but we dont own any and dont use MF for the vast majority of our work. Its just too much.
I’ve shot some canvases for condition/preservation projects as well and 36 MP FF has always worked out just fine, and it exceeds the client’s resolution requirements. So, I guess its really up to the client. I’m sure there is always a very small number of people who really do require super high resolution. Maybe I’ll end up eating my words and be required to as well at some point.
CanonJack–
36 MP most certainly is not enough for many pieces of art.
Think about this: in a 20x30cm oil, there is a certain amount of visual information. 36 MP will capture a certain amount of that detail.
Now think about a much larger work, in oil–or even tempera, like Botticelli 172x278cm, there is much more visual information, much more than 36 MP worth.
Even in medium-sized oils, the visual detail can be astounding.
I would like resolution even greater than the gigapixel-plus scanbacks, with even greater color depth. A decent figure for the resolution of the human eye, of a view that is 90 degrees x 90 degrees, is around 325 MP. The full angle of human vision, something like 100 x 180 degrees, is vastly greater.
Even to match human visual acuity, vastly more than 36 MP is needed…and I would like, and possibly need, the ability to go beyond human visual acuity.
Clearly no current camera can shoot artwork at a quality suitable for reprodution.
For my q’clee prints i have my artwork scanned for me on a 40″x60″ flatbed scanner 100% at 300dpi.
Larger pieces i have scanned in pieces and joined together in photoshop.
I do not own this eguipment, I have someone do my scans for me.
I am unclear how you can produce reproduction quality pictures with a camera. If you have a technique that works i would be interested in hearing it.
I love my NEX 5n but there are times I envy the nice size and comfortable grip a larger DSLR body provides. I would choose an NEX camera over a DSLR any day for street photography or travel since portability is the name of the game, and when shooting on the street, who would ever feel comfortable accidentally spotting some creep with a huge telephoto lens and camera body pointing straight at you? It’s definitely happened to me more often than I’m comfortable.
This is definitely great news to hear for me though because if I ever do find myself wishing to purchase a DSLR to accompany my small and portable NEX (to use for other scenarios), I don’t want to have to be limited to looking at the options by Canon or Nikon. Of the two, I would see myself getting a Nikon easily, but I have enjoyed Sony for many years over the dozens of point and shoot cameras of theirs that have proved to be reliable and take amazing pictures for their price point. While I think their current line up of bodies are good enough to satisfy anything I would ever need a DSLR for, it’s hard not to envy the lens lineup of going with a Nikon option.
Sony, I totally understand, and LOVE that you’re focusing on the e mount system as that’s one of the areas in your company bringing home some serious bacon, but please release more options for your a mount line!!! I could easily see myself getting an a65 since it has the core features of the a77, but at the same size as the a57, best idea ever! Why should you be limited to such huge bodies if you want great pictures?
As to why it will always be beneficial to have a large camera body – its due to two factors. Ergonomics and Weight. A human hand is a certain size. When things we hold become to large, or too small, it becomes uncomfortable. This is the problem with NEX right now and long lenses. Unless they start going back to mirror lenses, it will always be a problem with NEX – 300-600mm optics will be huge compared to the camera.
Weight (mass) is good and bad. Its bad when you need to carry a camera a long time. Its good when you’re trying to compose a photo or reduce camera blur. Ever try to take a telephoto image with a lightweight superzoom camera? Its a nightmare. The difference in weight between an A77 with VG and the A57 would be extremely beneficial for telephoto shooters. I get the gag reflex if I imagine the day when all cameras are lightweight. Its self-defeating to put that kind of technology into a system that is impossible to use to its fullest extent…also making it not enjoyable to use.
Jack, not all hands are the same size and not all photogs will need high mass & VG. Having the choice of two sizes for DSLT is a good thing even if the smaller size is not your thing.
YES!… The A1X Will live…..
Good to get some Alpha rumors instead of the toy camera Nex rumors all the time…
+1
I have had many SONY cameras starting with the MVC-CD500 Mavica and progressing to the R1, the A700 and now the A77.
I have three Alpha lenses: SAL-1680Z, SAL-70300G, and the SAL-70400G.
I also own a SONY HANDYCAM HDR-FX1000 camcorder.
Why do I mention the camcorder? Simple. It arrived on the scene around 2008-2009, and the same identical model is still selling on the Sony website today.
Similarly, all of my Sony Alpha glass is still on the market today at slightly higher prices (albeit a new version of the 400mm telephoto will be out soon but apparently with no change to the underlying optical formula).
Bottom line: my ownership satisfaction tends to be correlated to how accurately I choose my equipment for the type of photography I do AND how long the current sales tenure of a given item endures.
It is precisely for that reason that I find it so easy to get hooked on following rumors about A77 firmware updates, the A77 APS-C future model, and the evolution and future of Alpha mount lenses.
And it’s for the same validation-seeking reason that I, as an owner, pour over A77 and Alpha lens reviews.
In the here and now, I’ve finally learned how to carry out the micro-focus adjustment on my lenses, and I am exploring the live view focusing aids and so much more on the A77.
In the here and now, there’s no type of shot that I aspire to take that my Sony Alpha A-Mount system won’t handle.
In retrospect, the current A77 images expose the limitations that were part and parcel of the A700. Perhaps in the next twelve months or so, with a new A** model, I’ll feel the same way about the A77 and my Alpha glass.
But not today.
At the end of the day, might not these unsubstantiated rumors have their origins in the hidden goal of slowing the sales of the current excellent A77 & A99 models?
It’s not A-mount or E-mount? It’s an old line where you can’t compete and a new line where you (possibly just possibly) can compete!
I lived a life from Leica M3 and Nikon F up to Canon 5D Mk3 and NEX7. Ask professionals or photo-fans about “A-mount”? More than nine out of ten doesn’t even know what it is?? It’s not a big deal!
Wake up…..
Amen
That is good news for the weekend !
Would like to see an A78 soon…
‘ One more thing: When I write the A-mount is alive..I also mean that it will not rely on A to E mount adapters1 There will be 100% pure A-mount cameras in future. APS-C and Full Frame. ‘
If not, a Minoltafan-for-live will go to Nikon 🙁
Sony have a very small market share with A mount which is a real shame. But they have been quite patchy with their products with some good one and some not so good ones. They have poor consistency across Alpha and I can’t see it going anywhere based on their current direction.
It’s a damn shame Minolta had some great ideas, Sony it seems are determined to change that. The latest proprietary hot shoe is another blunder of epic proportions.
Unless there is a big change I can’t see A mount doing much at all
6% market share for Alpha that’s embarrassing to say the least
It is amazing how people discuss the Sony alpha cameras. Will they last, the low light capability is terrible, not enough lenses and on and on. How many people do you know have more than 4 lenses? My passion is wildlife and nature. I own 4 lens. The Zeiss 16 – 80; 70-200G 2.8, 70-400G, and just purchased the Minolta A Mount 600 f4 G lens. Also have the Sony 1.4 Teleconverter. Also own the Kinko Extension Tubes. For wildlife, the 3 (telephoto) lens give me from 105 – 900mm and with the 1.4 up to 1260 or a maximum of 25.2 power. More than enough + great glass. The sony lineup provides all I need to shoot from bugs at 8 inches to bears at 250 yards and still produce a 12MP shot with resolution to spare. Shoot with the a77 @24MP crop 50%. This extends (Theoretically) the “power” of the system to 37.
The point is: Why do people spend a fair amount of money on a camera system, then complain about everything from the size of the pixel to the name on the camera? I spent my money on a camera and system, that would provide me with what I want – excellent photos of wildlife and scenic views of the great outdoors. I got what I paid for and am very pleased. I personnally do not believe the other systems could provide the color, capability to not only use the viewfinder to frame the shot but also to control the color and exposure in the shot without bracketing every shot. I am getting to the point of shooting 600-800 shots on a trip instead of 1800-2500 because I know what I am getting without shooting, looking at the shot and shooting again or bracket every shot to ensure everything is what I want. Constructive criticism is always productive. Complaining about theoretical limits that no one, at the end of the day, will every use or see, is a little much. Especially those who complain to here themselves talk. Give everyone a break and find a system you can live with. Me, I got several things I would like my a77 to do better and some aspects I never use, but at the end of the day, I will stack my system against any other like system for quality of shot out of the camera. Keep up the good work Andrea. Great site!
Bob
Based on the equipment you say you use I have a suggestion.
Add a Tamron 60mm f2.0 macro lens.
This lens is for c size sensor and is a perfect match for your a77.
You will find this to be a good walk around lens and possibly the sharpest macro lens you can put on that camera at any price. It is also an inexpensive lens.
The sharpness of your macro will far exceed what you are currently using and you will not need your extension tube.
For even more impact try stopping down to f8 if lighting allows. Sboot at auto iso at up to 1600 iso.
Thanks animalsbyandy. appreciate it
Bob: “Complaining about theoretical limits that no one, at the end of the day, will every use or see, is a little much.”
I don’t think that’s what is going on here.
While your photography might be static, others of us are discovering new horizons in photography, as the technical envelope grows. As we find new avenues for artistic expression, yesterday’s theory becomes today’s practice.
For some of us, anyway. Not a value judgment, just saying that not everybody sees things the same way as you do, or has or will have the same requirements as you do.
Very true. I think Sony offers the same for me and my desires as it does for others such as yourself. I feel Sony offers the changes in technology and allows for different requirements to be met through their approach. Being inovative means going down some blind alleys. That is where constructive critisim comes in. Whining never works. You make a strong valid point. Thanks – Sometimes we get blinded by what we do.
Bob
Bob and Everyman
We all know i want 56mp full frame.
Bob wants to get the best results from the a77 which is the best c camera available.
C has advantages particulary for animals.
The advantages are include crop factor(smaller lenses) and more depth of field.
To compensate for those advantages completely a full size would need to be 56mp. 36 megapixel would not fully compensate for all the disadvantages.
My advise to bob was to allow him to get the max out pf the equipment he wants to use.
One more very usefull thing to have in the field is a second camera back to reduce the neccesity of changing lenses.
Being ready for anything often makes all the difference. I usually carry 2 cameras whith a 180macroavailable and 500 outside, and a 60
macro and 180 macro indoors at zoos.
Let’s all wait for a new NEX-line with FF-sensor. Small, modern, light, EVF and without mirror!! Sony have two choises for lens mount. A-mount or a new one? It will most certainly be A-mount as they can’t start from zero.
There won’t be (m)any new A-bodies thou! But new lenses can be used on the old Axx.
I can’t believe i am reading so much blush*t…
Hoping the a-mount will stay alive. We need a better range of cameras though. Not necessarily technically better but why not let people have a vertical grip without buying an a77? And why not having a 9-series focusing on speed? And make sure the cameras are seen by the public.a lot was lost by introducing only low-end cameras for a long period.
GOOD ENOUGH.
95% OF SONY USERS RATE THIER CAMERA GOOD ENOUGH.
SONY THE GOOD ENOUGH CAMERA !!!!
This should be Sony’s new add slogan.
I’ve never been worried that SONY would abandon the A-Mount. I’ve mostly been concerned that they’d stop making PROFESSIONAL cameras. The a900 and a850 feel like a tank in your hands, while the a99 feels like a toy.
Speaking as someone who shoots exclusively in Manual exposure mode, I can tell you that after a few years of use, I’ve broken the shutter speed and aperture control dials on two SONY alpha bodies (the a100 and the a700). The cheap, plastic dials just weren’t designed to withstand constant use by a professional photographer. The a900 and a850, however, have much more sturdy feeling dials. And I’ve yet to break them (knock on wood). Problem is. When I’ve picked up the a99 (at trade shows and in camera shops), the dials have felt EVERY BIT AS CHEAP AND PLASTIC-Y as the old a100 and a700 dials felt. And I worry that SONY manufactured the a99 with the AUTO, P, A, and S shooter in mind again, instead of the M shooter.
I’m really hoping that SONY releases a proper successor to take the title of flagship, and is designed with the photographer in mind instead of the videographer. And if I have to learn to “get used to shooting with an EVF” at least give me an EVF that’s bigger than an OVF. It really makes no sense to me that the a99’s EVF is so small, cause without the physical limitations imposed by mirrors and pentaprisms, there’s no reason not to manufacture and mount a giant EVF on top of the camera.
Give me an even uglier camera design. Give me a GIANT HUMP on top. Give me a view as big as looking through a Pentax 67.
Why? Because it will make it easier to manually focus more precisely. And every stills photographer who works professionally would value THAT FEATURE.
That said… I’m confident that SONY has another professional flagship coming. And the biggest single piece of encouragement that I’ve read, indicating that SONY will, in fact, release a true professional camera didn’t come from a rumor site, but rather, it’s been posted clear as day on SONY’s own website…
On this page:
http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921666536155
Listed under the “features” of the recently announced 50mm f/1.4 Zeiss lens, you’ll find the following paragraph, written about the lens’s “dust and drip resistant design”:
“The lens offers dust and drip resistance that meet the standards of mid-range models like the α99 and α77. The main drive unit is sealed with rubber packing, etc., to realize ample dust and drip resistance as a system when mounted on a camera to withstand tough usage in harsh environments.”
… In case you didn’t catch that. SONY themselves refer here to the a99 as being a “mid-range model”. Something that’s already quite obvious to any professional photographer who uses the A-Mount.