I don’t often talk about the competition but the Nikon D600 was one of this rumors that created a lot of buzz because it was said that the FF camera would cost 1500 Euro&Dollars only. Now that the camera has been announced we know that the rumor was wrong and the camera sells for $2100 right now at Amazon (Click here to see). So not really a deal-breaker. The Sony A99 specs are much higher and in terms of price the RX1 (Click here) might be to consider to be even cheaper if you would take away the price of the superb Zeiss 35mm f/2.0 lens -> of course we can only guess the price of such a lens if it would be sold separately.
98 Responses
Nah… D800 is better .. If not, the A99 it is
RX! it’s a bargain!
At $2800 you simply can’t get close to the coverage and quality of that lens. Add to that the usable high sensitivities, great build quality, a package which is ‘all in one’, resolution just better than an EOS 5D III and final results which can be extremely good indeed. Certainly there are a few niggles with the rest of the camera but at the price they can easily be excused. Hence it’s a bit of a split rating, if you’re an absolute perfectionist who doesn’t mind spending more on lenses and shoots a lot at ISO 6400 you may wish to consider something else, for everyone else I have no hesitation in Highly Recommending the DSC-R1, huh RX1….
(free from Dpreview.com)
I see what you’re doing there. heh.
This is a non starter. I would likely purchase the RX1 over this camera for $100 over the kit price. Hopefully the RX1 lives up to the hype!
Im not really sure you can compare the RX1 to the D600.. The D600 has an optical viewfinder with interchangeable lenses whereas the RX1 has neither, but has the advantage of being far smaller. Two different markets entirely.
When will Sony has a competitor for D60 at a cheaper price?
The D60 has always been cheaper.
I am not interested in the Nikon d600 with its limited video specs and a max shutter speed of 1/4000 and then it is also an OVF camera with a noisy shutter mechanism. I enjoy a Sony SLT with EVF too much to go back. The a99 looks very interesting. Perhaps a FF SLT is in my future. I know I will get an Nex 6. I was waiting for a 16 MP NEX camera with an EVF and hotshoe.
Not to mention that SO many here had this camera WAAAY cheaper. I recall some of the faux-cognocenti putting this camera nearer $1K and ridiculing others that put it over $2K…
The a99 being fully sealed in a rugged mag-alloy body and superior AF/metering system is really going after the D800 rather than the D600, and I think you’ll find that the prices between the a99 and D800 reflect that as well.
I’ll even be so bold to make the prediction that Canon will bring the 6D in at around $1800 and the price of the D600 will immediately drop to suit. The D600 is a body for the student/amateur market, not the pro space as the a99 and D800 are clearly aimed at.
“I think you’ll find that the prices between the a99 and D800 reflect that as well.”
No kidding. . .
Henry’s pre-order price for a Sony Alpha A99 body is $2999.99 CDN, exactly the same price as for a Nikon D800 body.
while I don’t doubt the A99’s functionality, I’m concerned about its high ISO raw noise. I have an A77 and it is 1 stop worse than NEX7 and 2 stops worse than NEX-5n in term of high ISO noise. (I have all three bodies). I hope Sony will improve the noise performance of A99 that will be on par with 5DIII and D800
i know right.. im really hoping the a99 deals with a noise better than the older cameras. whether the new BIONZ processor will be that much better.. who knows
hopefully it can deal with iso of up to 3200 with out being too bad
since when are 5DIII and D800 on par at anything? 😉
where are you getting this information from?? I couldn’t believe TWO stops difference from ANY of those cameras you mentioned, and sure enough looked it up and it’s LESS than 1/2 a stop improvement from a77 to Nex-5N
http://snapsort.com/compare/Sony-A77-vs-Sony-NEX-5N
1/2 stop for print from correctly downsized 8Mp. That means much more then 1/2 stop actualy. Read DxO explanation about the ISO measurement and score.
No, it means 1/2 stop.
Unless of course you can’t find out how to compare images at the same scaling of the complete image, which is the only right way to compare images from cameras with different resolution.
Weird, the controlled tests show less than half a stop difference, both in measurements and visually (see for example the review at Dpreview where they specifically compared them in low light).
No it isn’t, at most it is half a stop, it usually end ups being somewhere between a third and a half. The tests are all over the web.
@Bummer, I think sony did a great job with noise control even at ISO 25,600. http://www.ephotozine.com/article/sony-nex-6-sample-photo-gallery-20120
I wouldn’t say A99 is better specs camera. It is different it is hard to say which one is better. It is the Sony that should have that aggressive pricing policy not nikon.
Keep in mind that most important thing – thesensor is the same in both cameras. Even more important is that Nikon has to buy it from Sony, Sone does’t have. Nikon have moving mirror and optical viewfinder things that should add more to final price than EVF and SLT.
I would be interested in A99 only if it starts with D600 price. D800 and 5d3 level price is a joke from Sony. Same story as we have seen with A77.
Maybe someone in Sony is trying to kill A mount? 🙂
Nikon hAs to be the cheaper.
All the Nikon non pro bodies are notorious for having more issues with wear a d tear than Canon and Sony.
Nikon is a small company and cannot avoid to cut on costs on some parts when they want to produce low priced bodies. There is always something flimsy here and there that will brake earlier than you would like.
Even the d800 has it’s flimsy parts.
The a99 is better of the 5d at anything they can do.
Beside it is 700 dollars cheaper.
I think Canon really nails the FF with the 5D3, so I wouldn’t count them out. It’s the lenses that will hurt Sony. I think Canon has got a better 24-70 and 70-200 f/2.8 lenses than Sony for FF.
Seriously Sony have a dreadful record in quality control and they have a consumer satisfaction {or more accurate dissatisfaction record} that shows why
http://www.pcworld.com/article/244570/digital_camera_reliability_and_satisfaction_canon_and_nikon_score_best.html
Lack of trust in Sony is possibly the biggest obstacle that they face in the serious high end camera market.Fanboy BS should be kept to the jungle of DPreview .
Is that link “proof” of sony’s dreadful quality? Sony isn’t even mentioned.
Look, every modern camera out there is capable of churning out great work – we all need to chill and basically get better at our craft. Get the camera you want (or need). In the end, it’s a box that allows you to express your creativity.
I’ll second that
so yes or no it is a dumbdown sensor of A99?
Maybe it’s the A77 version of the sensor… but in FF (without the nifty A99 improvements)
i´d say its the RX 1 sensor if its a Sony. the RX1 sensor reportedly has not PDAF sensors on chip..
nikon d600 has phase detection in video mode. But since is slr it only works in video mode.
No, it hasn’t!
and it’s “a joke from Sony” why exactly? Because it’s SOMEWHAT close in price (yet cheaper) to the D800 and 5DM2?? So the D800 is a joke because it’s SOMEWHAT close in price (yet cheaper) to the 5DM2?
Really good camera…got even weather sealing and 100% viewfinder coverage for 2100USD(according to dpreview). Now hope there is a cheaper version of the A99 (A85?) with a sub-2000USD price and why not? A Canon cheap FF with sub-2000USD price point. Competitive price is always a good thing for us =)
I wonder about the reaction if this d600 had an alpha mount on it? If it did, I might still prefer the a99 because I prefer SLT but there are a great many people still wanting an OVF.
Also, does this d600 have just a souped up d7000 AF unit? If so, this could be another ff cam with a tiny clump of AF points in the very middle of the viewfinder. That same problem is the number one thing stopping me getting an a99 🙁
yes, AF points only in the middle – such a shame. to me D700 is still the best FF camera ever made. D600 is D7000 with FF sensor inside, that’s pretty much all it is.
Pretty much. The D7000 and D600 share the same 4800(DX/FX) 39 point AF system and 2016 pixel meter.
5.5 Fps vs 6 Fps? So much for SLT advantage in Continuous drive.
right cause trying to follow the action with a mirror flapping in your face is just so much better regarless of speed 😀
Comparing to the dumb-down A99, the flapping mirror now indeed sounds better, if you factor in SLT’s light loss, the slideshow effect in EVF, the overall lagging and clipping of highlights and shadows in EVF, the power draining EVF during composition, poorer shot decisions due to lower DR in EVF, missing the right shots due to EVF lag, higher noise in stills and video due to light loss, more NR mushiness in low-light video… and etc. etc.
All these compromises to make for SLT… for gaining what now? Cost is up, speed is gone.. what is left?
Ah, right. For overlaying information in EVF that the competators and some of Sony’s older OVF models put in the back of its LCD during live view… right, I’ll pass on that… thank you.
Oh, right.. magnified view for MF assist with peaking in EVF… yes, good for MF… the competators also do it long before Sony on back LCD during LV… mirrorless cameras and NEX do it in EVF…. So, how can this be an advanrage of SLT, as SLT was thrown down on Sony users for better PDAF.
So yea, let’s argue for better PDAF on SLT… While A77 is very good for locking on to subjects, tests show that Canon and Nikons were still better in AF tracking and predicting the movement of subjects… And, now with the ridiculous layout of AF points on A99… chances of good subject tracking across the frame remains to be seen.
Now, arguing for SLT/EVF in pro videography wouldn’t also convince me… as videographers still prefer manual focus pulling to tell their stories, instead of relying auto focus hunting… And, even Sony now recommends using externel monitor as A99’s accessory for videography that the competators have been doing for a long time with hdmi-out… So, usage of EVF for pro videography is also very limited.
So…. these were the not-so-impressive advantages that not stand against all the compromises made for SLT…. Thus… I would still say… No thank you.
I suspect its the read time of the 24.3mp sensor that’s the issue. the rx1 has the same 4 or 6 fps with the same sensor. Some of your points are good ones.
SONY ALPHA 88
hm…. spring 2013
body………1400 dollar
yeayeah
duplicate post, please delete
This camera will cause serious headaches to the guys from sony, it’s not very far behind in specs, yet the price is considerably lower.
The A99 will make its point in the video market, where those 60p/50p lacking on the nikons could make the difference, but 700$ is just too much for just some fps extra.
Still have to value IQ, wich will probably be very close, and AF capabilities.
but 24mbps bit rate will let sony and nikon not desirable for video, 60p wont help when overall quality is compromised.
Actually the sony is 28mbps (not much of a difference). but i don’t doubt that serious videographers will use uncompressed out on external recorder, wich both of these cameras can do.
Guess you didnt see the example pics on Engadget ?
Sony has nothing to worry about, not even Canon.
Only Nikon fanboys will buy D600.
I’ll repeat what I said elsewhere: D600 is made by Nikon so that A99 would look like a bargain comparing to competition, especially Canon (“yay, it’s better then both: FF Nikon and FF Canon!” 😉 )
LOL. Serious headache to the Sony guys….
You made laugh!
Like they did not know it was coming….
They all want money and do not think about the future.
but bit rate will let sony and nikon not desirable for video, 60p wont help when overall quality is compromised.
But it significantly cheeper than A99, thats enough. And both had inferior AVCHD 24mbps. it sucks
Intro price. Nikon will lower it to sub 2K by next year after they fix all their issues…which is expected after seeing the reported problems with the D800.
€1500 would have been a nice price for this, but €2100 is too expensive. I’d rather spend a little extra and get the A99 or even the RX1.
meh d600 and a99 sucks then go canon, they actually have the best of the best 5d III is the new king hopefully for me ^_^
A99 owns this camera. Not even worth comparing the two on paper.
On paper, it’s the OVF version of A99, that spells zero light-loss for me.
It’s only missing bulit-in GPS and XLR mumbo-jumbo of A99 that photographers would hardly care about.
Everything else is same or better… 24MP FF sensor.. Weather sealing… Dual SD card slots… 14-bit raw… 31 AF points… Pop-up flash… Tethering… Nikon’s AF tracking and metering… and certainly better noise handling (due to no SLT mirror).
Dpreview writes: “Nikon should be commended for not skimping on features in order to keep the D600’s costs down or protect sales of more expensive models.”
What I think: A99’s ridiculous price will make the D600 sell like hot cakes.
Sonnar 35/2 must be a better lens than Distagon 35/2: better distortion correction, better field curvature, better sharpness wide open, better everything.
It’s tailored towards one specific sensor. I’d be very disappointed if it’d be otherwise.
Let’s wait and compare IQs. That’s IMHO the final statement, the only one that would surpass innuendos and go beyond reluctances.
The specs of the D600 are quite similar to the ones of the A99 on many points and it is quite cheaper. That’s what counts.
I think, the wireless feature on D600 is very interesting, some time ago I just thought, that someone could make feature like this (if tehre is already, sry), and here it is, but sadly- on Nikon. I’d prefer Sony, I really enjoy the EVF, 10 fps and a flip out screen, but the price is too high for A99 body only, I don’t need a video on this cam. I’m pretty happy with my old Sony dslr and honestly, I can’t remember, when I felt need for video mode in it. A99 price is so high, that i just need to think about it, maybe it’s time to say goodbye to Sony.
So the D600 also shares the APSC spec’d AF module with the D7000? That means it’s AF points are all also mushed up in the middle like the A99 then?
100% !!!
Have you owned/used a D7000? I own one, and the AF points straight 75% of the way to the edge of the view finder. My AF on my D800 in comparison doesnt appear to extend anywhere near as far, so I think you’ll find it looks much like a regular FF AF array.
Yes, but when they put that same AF point array in the middle of a much larger full frame sensor, they occupy much less space and are “bunched up in the middle”.
Yes, I’ve used a D7000 in earnest before. No. Correction. I’ve used TWO D7000 in earnest before, so I know how the AF points are spread out. But do you know what’s the difference between a FF sensor and a APS-C sensor? Have you seen how the a99’s AF points were spread out over an APS-C area? They are more or less the same. Please think over what I was saying before you fart. I wasn’t bashing the D600. I’m saying that I’m rather disappointed that both these full frame cameras have all their PDAF points all mushed into the centre portion of the frame.
The only possible saving grace for the a99 is because it is a continuous liveview camera, the imaging sensor might be able to pick up the subject even if it is out of the PDAF spread area and do contrast detect AF. We’ve seen how the face detection actually did work in the a99 in a promo video posted here somewhere. CDAF is better than no AF at all, I guess. The D600, relying only on PDAF in still imaging, will not be able to do this.
the only thing that these 2 days are telling me is that the only missing piece of the puzzle is the NEX 9:
– we now have cheap DSLR with FF (D600)
– we have full body pro DSLR with FF (1DX, D4)
– we have semipro DSLR with FF (5D3, D800)
– we have semipro SLT with FF (A99)
– we have compact camera with FF (RX1)
– we have camcorder with FF and E-mount
– we DON’T HAVE mirrorless ILC with FF
the RX1 is tempting, but a NEX-9 is 6 months away, IMHO. and given the price of the D600, it will not be more than $2100. actually, I think it’ll be just that. and I will VERY HAPPILY pay $2000 for it, body only. and then use all my legacy glass.
The D600 looks ok but the spec is pretty bare bones. For example, I regard GPS as mandatory, the nikon accessory costs $200, so now the minimum acceptable spec D600 costs $2300.
While we havent got any idea how either the D600 or A99 will perform out there in the real world on the spec sheet at least I’m not seeing the D600 really represents especially great value for money, rather the value propositions are pretty similar.
The D600 is great value if you want less, the A99 is great value if you want more.
???
>> The D600 is great value if you want less, the A99 is great value if you want more.
The D600 is great value if you want less (NOISE), the A99 is great value if you want more (NOISE)
🙂
We ask Sona – Make us FF HEX (36) – (24)
the normal price. We do not need the video.
Photographer.
D600 is a fair package but Nikon lenses are really expensive. If you’re already invested in Sony Minolta then you’re looking at $6k+ for a good Nikon lens selection. Minimum.
After using the A77, and as a landscape photographer, I could never go back to a fixed LCD. Impossible to use when the camera position stops you getting your eye to the OVF. And Nikon LiveView is shocking anyway.
I have to stay with Sony due to cost but if I were seriously thinking of the D600, then the RX1 seems to be a miles better choice! And then I would have all the benefits of both (assuming RX1 high ISO is stellar)! If only I had a spare $2,800…..
The more I look at what the RX1 offers and at the quality of the package the more of a bargain it seems!
To be fair. You could equally say: “A99 is a fair package but Sony lenses are really expensive. If you’re already invested in Nikon then you’re looking at $6k+ for a good Sony/Zeiss lens selection”
What about LA-EA3???
is it possible to use A-Mount lenses without mirror but autofocussing on every NEX???
Frankly speaking, Nikon’s FF camera is so good. I believe that the DXOMARK’s score of D600 will be very high. It may be even higher than A99. Their processor (EXPEED 3) is very formiddable.
Andrea please stay objective and don’t write fanboy gibberisch regarding the RX1. You perfectly know yourself that you can not compare a D600 with a RX1 from the possibilities and usage area the two offer. So it is useless to write: If we substracted the price of the lens from the RX1…. You could only do this by using a saw…
You make good work but please be aware of fanboyism. What conerns me I like your well founded information you give us and less the hype which is created nowadays around the products. probably I am to realistic and too much a scientist..
So what camera, in your opinion, is a competitor for the RX1? There is no direct competitor (except the horrendously expensive Leica) so I believe an entry price FF DSLR is a perfectly valid comparison.
Andrea spends a lot of his spare time bringing us these articles and all you can do is nit pick and criticise. Shame on you.
I am certainly not a fanboy. And I know I am comparing apple and oranges here. But in that contest we were merely talking about the “cheapest FF” camera. Not about the features!
The problem with fanboyism is not the one advocating it. It’s the one viewing the users.
One is a fanboy only if someone else recognizes one as so.
I don’t consider myself fanboy, yet I dislike Canikon products, I still like Pan/oly though, yet others think I’m a Sony fanboy.
It’s easier to distort others’ viewpoints.
Also, this is _sony_alpharumors
If you want Canikon-biased discussion, try canon/nikonrumors and dpreview
Maybe of interest to anyone here?
http://www.cameraegg.com/sony-rx1-sample-images/
RX1 samples, appparently
A99 all the way over this cheap piece of junk and I’m a Nikon user. This is a very, very disappointing camera in my opinion. If it was released AFTER a true D700 replacement not so much. And about $200 too much. A $1999.99 price would be better.
Why do we need GPS?
a99 body is $2800 but the D600 body is $2100 =
Nikon Saves me $700 – Wow that’s a Big Delta
PLEASE – Is there are features comparison list side by side that anyone knows of? I am trying to better understand, what Sony wants the extra $700 for??
or
How about a full List of the Sony proposed benefits over the D600
Would anyone enumerating the differences between the A99 and the D600 sway you to buy the A99?
Also, it is unclear to me whether the D600 has micro focus adjust.
Like this?
http://www.dpreview.com/products/compare/side-by-side?products=sony_slta99&products=nikon_d600
I do agree though, a comparison is nothing more than bragging rights.
You should try each of them and see which are more comfortable.
May as well buy them from Amazon, and return the one you don’t like.
There are many comparison points that cannot be drawn on paper, such as ergonomics and relative color/image quality.
I hate Canikon colors, and that’s a dealbreaker for me. None of my Canikon acquintances ever boast about color or ergonomics. They always use numbers. Which says something..
Thank You for the Side by Side specs list –
They seem to use the same Sensor, so they are too similar
That $700 a 35% More expensive for Sony is HUGE – I could buy a great lens or the topline Flash and external flash battery for that $$. The d600 even ships earlier.
I can heardly wait for the FULL DP REVIEWS of these two units with the Production or 1.1 firmware
That’s true. Remember though, Nikon is usually better at low ISO performance due to the image processing stuff, so same sensor says quite a bit, but not everything.
Make sure to find reviews from unbiased sites too (or multiple biased sites until you get a balanced view). Dpreview is partnered more with Canikon so they tend to be biased there.
it´s already been said and I´m not defending any brand, but for the price, the A99 is for the D800. Then the specs and quality diference is a lot smaller!
And the D600 is priced small above the A77 and it may be a lot better than the A77 (for photography, I´m not very much for video).
D600 is a great price for FF. It will sell very well. I think the A99 has a lot of innovative features and can justify a higher price. It’s for the Sony pro shooter. The D600 is smart since it caters to the casual consumer crowd. Nikon will get a lot of buyers and their IQ will be tops. This is big competition for Canon and Sony.
D600 beats A99 on price and features for me.
– OVF (iPhone generation can keep EVF)
– lower price
– probably cleaner high ISO
– probably better metering
otherwise almost full parity with A99 on features i care about. If i have to trade 60p and rotating LCD for 30p and fixed LCD for $800 – sounds like a deal. I can purchase RX100 + D600 and still have some $ left.
If pre-orders are anything to go by, the D600 is currently at #1 on Amazon’s sales ranking and the A99 at #96. The D800 – which has been out for months – is currently at #28.
http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-Camera-Photo/zgbs/electronics/502394/ref=zg_bs_nav_e_1_e#1
I guess SLT technology and EVFs do not exactly rule the world yet. Perhaps Sony should be reconsidering a full frame camera with an OVF just in case.
hmmmm
http://www.amazon.com/gp/new-releases/electronics/502394/ref=zg_bsnr_unv_e_2_281052_1
I think Nikon hit the sweet spot of many people, including myself and many of my friends who aren’t professionals. I definitely like that spec, 24 MP FF, 5.5 FPS, 39 AF points .. and the best of all, the price of $2200!!! This is exactly what I want, except it is a Nikon, not a Sony =(
But anyway, I think Canon and Sony will follow and produce a cheaper FF. But I also think it will be a very tight competition, because I personally think there is not much room for the price to go down.
And as I expected, the D600 will be around $2000 but not the rumored $1500. Because there is really no point to get down to $1500. Even at $2000, it is a game changer already.
Wow what a lovely forum full of really competent people, I have a lot to learn here.
I will hold my decision until the full reviews from DPREVIEW and DXOMARK are published.
This the review from Ken:
http://kenrockwell.com/nikon/d600.htm#comp