3Dkraft esplaines what Ultra-Wide Lens will work perfectly on the A7r.

52 Responses

1. Damn you 3D-Kraft!.. 😉 now I’m still torn between which of the two powerhouses to buy! I can’t wait for the Ultron test: as Admin Andrea it was the first lens I wanted to buy.

   For lazy internet people like me, can someone please post a list of telecentric design lenses?

   I met a German guy in Venice, he was shooting a Leica M8.2 with that WATE: I asked him if he would exchange it for a 50mm ‘lux and some money, and in return I had a big laugh. 🙂 I haven’t tried it, but from his reaction I believe it’s a really special lens.

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   1. Most of the well-known compact wides are symetricals unfortunately. And it’s true the WATE has a real Leica price tag..

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   2. The problem of the WATE is that it has no internal filter thread. Use of any filter requires a bulky adapter ring. This is especially a large problem with the M8 due to the IR sensitivity issue.

      It’s a great lens, though. The only true zoom I’ve ever tried that makes the claim “primes are better than zooms” seem wrong. Most of Leica’s modern wides are asymmetric to different degrees, you could pick up a 21mm f3.4 for a lot less.

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2. Good stuff!

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3. Nobody want to test the A7-24mp for us -poor people- ? 🙂

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   1. That’s because a7 is just another ff camera like 5dmk3, d600, a99 but in a small compact body.

      A7r on the other side, with its compact, premium built body that has the best ff sensor and highest resolution ff camera that only the mighty $3000 d800e can compete with, is a special camera that draws many tester and reviewers.

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   2. Steve Huff had the A7 and the A7r with wide angle lense tests and said the A7 generally fared better. In fact he said if you plan on shooting with non native lenses at less than 35mm you should buy the A7.

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      1. Funny that you posted this when 3DKraft actually explained that it’ll depend on the lens design of a particular wide angle lenses. WATE would probably perform well on the A7r

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4. I have been waiting for a test with the WATE as I thought it would be ok. I’m surprised there hasn’t been more tests done on canon lenses as we have no idea which of their lenses struggle with 36mp.

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5. Greetings,
   for me what was written by 3D-Kraft isn’t anything new 🙁 It was already foretold by Dr Nasse in his monograph of Carl Zeiss Wide Angle lenses (http://blogs.zeiss.com/photo/en/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/en_CLB41_Nasse_LensNames_Distagon.pdf ). Telecentric lens works well with digital sensors and symmertic one – not really well.
   It’s a pity that it full applies to A7r microlenses too.
   Best regards, WZ.

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   1. Thank you for the link to that good Zeiss article. Of course it is nothing really new. It was also discussed when people started testing several different wide angle designs on the NEX-7 suffering from strong color shift with most vintage M-mount wide angles.

      The big achievement of Leica is in my point of view, that they were able to put such a powerful lens design in a very compact housing.

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      1. Thanks for replaying 🙂 I haven’t thought that You read those comments, especially mine. I admire the Leica too, it is my 2nd most admired lenses’ manufacturer. WATE is already legendary, exceptional lens – which is manufactured and appreciated since 2006. I believed that there was some prewar predecessor with M39 but I cannot confirmed that information now.
         I have one question if I may. What do You mean with Zeiss 21 2.8 in Your article? Do You mean Biogon 21mm ZM or Distagon 21mm? You photo taken with Zeiss 21mm 2.8 looks exceptional good, if it is achieved within moderate aperture range. Some of previous reviewers showed terrific corner results with Biogon 21mm ZM at f/2.8 and f/4 with both A7 and A7R. I am very curious if I connect my A7R with my Hologon lens, which I use with Nex7, I would be able to get any result similar to those with Hologon and Nex-7.
         Best regards, WZ.
         PS. I am happy that You published Your photos, I appreciate that.

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         1. The Zeiss Hologon 16mm f/8 is a terrific wide angle as well (and purest symmetrical design I have seen so far). Converted to M-mount it is on the M Monochrom a good performer. On the M9 it produces strong color shift in the borders and corners. I expect that it can be used on the A7R only with b/w conversion.

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            1. The purest symmetrical design lens (other than a symmetric singlet) is a Zeiss Topogon (25mm f/4 for Leica, for example) or its clones like the Orion-15 28/6 or W-Nikkor C 2.5cm f/4. The Hologon is not really a perfectly symmetrical lens.

            2. I agree with Hendrick, Topogon rulez 🙂

            3. I made CornerFix’ profie to my Hologon photos to make it works without magenta-shift cast (http://www.zeissimages.com/showreplies.php?qid=964). If it could be used in monochrome mode as You proven with Leica Monochrome, I hope it could be used with CornerFix too. It could be corrected with Adobe DNG Flat Field.
               Best regards, WZ.
               PS. I saw also Dierk galery with Hologon and Leica M at the same time (http://www.zeissimages.com/showphoto.php?photoid=32718).

            4. I made CornerFix’ profie to my Hologon photos to make it works without magenta-shift cast ( http://www.zeissimages.com/showreplies.php?qid=964 ). If it could be used in monochrome mode as You proven with Leica Monochrome, I hope it could be used with CornerFix too. It could be corrected with Adobe DNG Flat Field.
               Best regards, WZ.

            5. PS. I saw also Dierk galery with Hologon and Leica M at the same time ( http://www.zeissimages.com/showphoto.php?photoid=32718 ).

      2. I am sorry I messed up 🙁 I put all of articles into one.
         I saw Zeiss 21 2.8 images with A7R at SteveHuffPhoto site,
         best regards, WZ.

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   2. There is a huge difference between a theoretical discussion and practical results. 3D’ LCD captures are in the right direction but is not even the final verdict. We really do not know how the files turn out in reality. Only those who already own the expensive lenses like the tri elmar would find out soon.

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6. For some reason the translator is not working on the Cyberphoto sight. I did check out the sample images and they looked great!

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   1. Emph66, being a Swede I did check out the CyberPhoto site in order to translate their review for you. However, it was a bit longer than I had anticipated, and feeling a bit lazy today after som hard (brain-)work yesterday, I took the easy way out and translated their teaser instead…

      It can be regarded as an abstract of their review. Hope this is better than nothing…

      CyberPhoto A7R teaser:

      ********************************************************

      The sun is rising…
      “”””””””””””””””””””

      [ An A7R picture of sunrise beams in wood ]

      When new producs arrive, it might feel like a sunrise. A refreshing feeling, something new and pleasant. We have seen a lot of sunrises but we will never be tired of one more. The same goes for sunsets as well, but that didn’t feel to be the right metaphor here… Mats, who is reviewing a lot of cameras, has spent a couple of days with the Sony Alpha 7R and made a lot of images. Is this a sunrise?

      Mats is using Nikon D800 out of work, which, with good lenses mounted, is capable of producing really good images with “sting”. D800 is perhaps the best reference when comparing image quality, because both these cameras have a 36 Mp fullformat sensor, and D800 is an acknowledged very good camera and Nikon has some very good lenses in its lineup.

      Is Alpha 7R better? Worser? Equivalent?

      We woun’t reveal everything quite yet, but we kan already now tell you … without exaggeration … that it would be very surprising if you are not going to like the pictures that the A7R is producing. Another clue is that Mats comment after reviewing the pictures was:

      “Will I be forced to switch system…? Sigh!”

      Interpret it how you like, but Alpha 7R will not be behind anything in the IQ department. It came through with flying colours.

      Published: 2013-10-30 15:51 Central European time

      You will soon find the review here: Sony Alpha 7R body.
      http://www.cyberphoto.se/info.php?article=SLTA7R

      ********************************************************

      {Translators note: The full review is there now. 🙂 }
      .

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      1. GunnarK,

         Thank you very much for the translation, greatly appreciated.

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         1. You are welcome!
            .

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      2. Wide angle lenses made for SLR cameras should work well. I’d like to see tests of the Zeiss ZF lenses, and some of the better Nikon AIS lenses on this camera.

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7. Greetings one again,
   I made CornerFix’ profie to my Hologon photos to make it works without magenta-shift cast (http://www.zeissimages.com/showreplies.php?qid=964). If it could be used in monochrome mode as You proven with Leica Monochrome, I hope it could be used with CornerFix too. It could be corrected with Adobe DNG Flat Field.
   Best regards, WZ.
   PS. I saw also Dierk galery with Hologon and Leica M at the same time (http://www.zeissimages.com/showphoto.php?photoid=32718). I consider Carl Zeiss Topogon lens as more symmetrical design than Hologon one 🙂

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8. While I’m not surprised by the results I am a little disappointed but remember a lot of these symmetric designs are only marginally better on Leica’s bodies with all the in camera correction turned off.

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9. what about the A7 or A7r with the voigtlander 20 mm / F3,5 Color Skopar SL II with canon mount and adapter ?

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   1. IMHO Color Skopar 3.5/20mm isn’t working very good with DSLR, which was designed for. It wouldn’t work better with A7/A7R either. ( http://www.lenstip.com/274.4-Lens_review-Voigtlander_Color_Skopar_20_mm_f_3.5_SL_II_Aspherical_Image_resolution.html )

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   2. It will work just fine. It is obviously a compromise, but for its price and dimensions, I’d say it is surprisingly good. I wouldn’t like to have it as my only wide angle lens though. Here are a few pictures (not mine) taken with it on a D800, which are available at full size:
      http://www.flickr.com/photos/73141132@N04/8093032951
      http://www.flickr.com/photos/73141132@N04/7412142988
      http://www.flickr.com/photos/73141132@N04/7629772764
      http://www.flickr.com/photos/73141132@N04/7655692332
      http://www.flickr.com/photos/73141132@N04/8022556381

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10. The article makes sense, but there is one thing I don’t understand:

    If digital sensors are problematic on wide-angle symmetric designs, why do the digital Leica M cameras not suffer from that problem, too? Or do they?

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    1. They do not have edge smearing due to very thin IR filter before sensor. They, however, DO suffer from colorshift. But everyone is used to it and Leicas can fix it in-camera.

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    2. More interesting to me is why didn’t they make other designs, better suited for their own digital bodies?

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11. Andrea, the title should be: 3DKraft explains what ultra wide LENS will work on A7r: one of the moste expensive ones on the planet.

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    1. Radissimo,

       during the last months I saw sporadic sales of used WATEs below 3000 EUR and if you put together the value of 2 to 3 other excellent wide angle primes, you will end up at higher prices and have to carry more. Beside quality it is also a good investment as I expect the prices of WATEs stable (and may be rising when more people start showing their work with WATE on A7R).

       Perhaps this perspective helps….

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    2. P.S.: I also mentioned the Voigtlander Ultron 21mm f/1.8, which seems to be a good deal for its price tag.

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12. Shouldn’t the A7R’s sharpness be compared to D800e and not D800?

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13. If you go to the Leica site then you will find that their current “ultra-wide” lenses are designed to have longer back focal lengths to moderate the corner issues. For instance, the 18mm lens is described as having a “retrofocus-like architecture”. Quite what the difference is between “retrofocus” and “retrocus-like”, I’m not to sure. But the results are presumably similar. Essentially the lens has been designed with a back focal length which produces results which can be tolerated on an M9 without being so physically large as to be disproportionate to the camera body.

    http://uk.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/lenses/6291.html

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14. I agree with 3Dkraft. And looking forward to see final images.
    Jack Devant Ballet Photography

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15. Hmm, I know this is not a Leica forum, but why did Leica discontinue their excellent WATE lens again?

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    1. Adam, where did you find that information?
       On the official Leica site it is still listed and I saw it at several dealers.
       http://us.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/lenses/

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       1. Clearing existing stocks. In one interview one of the Leica guys said that it costs more to make it (the mechanical part) and they do not make enough out of it!

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          1. Are you sure, you do not mean the Tri Elmar 28-35-50 (“MATE”)?

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             1. My bad, I missed the lens entry, been awhile since I went to Leica website and it has been redesigned.

16. I have a boat load of A-Mount lenses. I would love to see comparisons with these lenses on these cameras.

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    1. Gary, due to their DSLR design I would expect them to perform on the A7 / A7R with LA-EA4 at least as good as on earlier A-Mount alphas. The only disadvantage may be the lack of IBIS. Although I have no A-mount camera, I recently purchased the 135/2.8 STF as I expect it to be a very exceptional lens (the ultimate cream machine) on A7/A7R as well. More about that you find soon on 3D-Kraft.com …:)

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17. He called out Steve Huff………….

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18. The A7r is indeed an excellent camera, but it has some flaws. I’ve posted a short first impressions blog here (in Swedish – you should be able to read it using Google Translate): http://www.fotosidan.se/blogs/afe/vem-f-n-platar-tegelvaggar-jag.htm

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    1. Impressive rulltrappan shot, Anders!
       Was the noise reduction on or off in your nigt scenes?

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19. I think people are making way to many generalizations about lenses here. As the 3d Kraft pointed out, lens design is very complex. One thing to think about is if the lens is short, the light is likely to hit the sensor at steep angles, increasing the chance of optical issues of all sorts. If the lens is long, it is more likely to be a more telecentric design (just because it has to keep the light going down the long lens). A more telecentric (sensor side) design will be less likely to have lens issues.

    Take a look at a small 50mm 1.4 vs something like the Otus. There’s a reason it’s so much longer and bigger. That size helps correct the light better so you don’t have these issues. High quality very wide angles tend to be long and big too. Again, there’s a reason.

    Also, SLR lenses by necessity had to be designed with light going to the sensor in a straight path, because the sensor-flange distance was so long. A mirrorless camera has a shorter distance, allowing the lens to have steeper exit angles, but also potentially causing issues when the light comes out too steep.

    These are the tradeoffs. Small lens, potential compromises in image quality on comparatively larger sensors. Bigger sensors just want bigger lenses.

    Even these statements are generalizations, so you’ll really have to try the lens you want out. Optics are so complex that sometimes there’s just some magic with a particular lens design for the focal length and aperture you want. But beware someone who claims something like ‘all x lenses will suffer on this body’.

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20. When you attach the WATE to your sony a7R, does it gets recognized? Mine doesn’t but still I am able to shoot. Is there a fault with my NOVOFLEX adapter or is this normal?
    It seems normal when I look at the photos, but don’t want to try it more before I know for sure… When looking at metadata it says f0.0 which probably is because its not recognized by the camera.
    Hope you or anybody take time to answer this.
    thanks

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    1. No. Any adapted lens will not communicate f/number information.

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