Pictured above. The old analogue Auto 110.
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It’s not a secret anymore that Pentax will announce their new mirrorless system in March (Updated, it’s May!) And as Mr. Hamada from Hoya-Pentax said a while ago: “we would like to release products with an individuality that shines through“.
The biggest challenge for all mirrorless system is to find the right balance between size (as tiny as possible) and image quality (sensor size). So what is Pentax going to do?
According to our sources Pentax wanted to create a sort of digital version of the popular and very tiny . That’s why the new system will use a 5.6x crop sensor! By comparison: Micro Four Thirds uses a 2x crop sensor and Sony/Samsung are using 1.5x crop sensors. Note that there are rumors saying that Nikon will also use a very small sensor for their mirrorless system. Pentax made a very risky but also intriguing choice! We have been reported that the camera is much smaller than the current smallest mirrorless body (which is the ).
The sensor itself has 14 Megapixel which can record HD h.264 movies. May this is a coincidence only but the new Kenko mirrorless system uses a 14 Megapixel 1/2,33? (crop factor 5,6). Will Kenko and Pentax share the same sensor?
What about lenses? For now we only know that two lenses will be announced along the camera and that three more will be launched by end of the year.
UPDATE: We just got the lens specs! There will be a prime 8.5mm f/1.9 (almost 50mm equivalent) and a zoom 5-15mm f/2.8-4.5 (28-80mm equivalent)!
In Summary:
– One camera (Pentax NC-1?) and two lenses will be announced in May.
– 8.5mm f/1.9 (almost 50mm equivalent) and a zoom 5-15mm f/2.8-4.5 (28-80mm equivalent)
– New mount
– 5.6x crop 14 Megapixel sensor (Sensor size around 1/2.33?)
– HD h.264 recording
– smaller than NEX body
– hot shoe
– Three more lenses to be announced later (very likely in September 2011)
As soon as we have more info we will post them here on mirrorlessrumors. Also Nikon,Panasonic, Olympus and Sony will release new products within the next three months! So stay tuned! Do not miss any of our future rumors and news:
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The Mirrorlessrumors guys!
P.S.: We published the rumor one hour earlier before of the end of the countdown. We didn’t want to make you suffer to much! 🙂
76 Responses
What a weird choice if true. I just don’t see who is going to buy this.
Hmm, smaller sensor than LX5/XZ-1/S95 but doubt that the camera would be smaller than these. Yes it has interchangeable lenses but what’s the point with a tiny sensor like that? Well, here is to hoping they have something special saved for that sensor. If the IQ can’t beat LX5/XZ=1/S95 then I really don’t see the point.
There are stupid people everywhere.
Only possible explanation is that all lenses are between F0.95-1.4. Otherwise system is simply stupid. There was earlier rumor about Canon x2,5 system with quite a small F lenses.
a compact with interchangeable lenses=stupid; compacts are already tiny and have 10x zooms in a small package; want a faster lens> lx/hz have it.
At least a BSI 2/3 sensor would have made more sense…AND with a true OVF as the 110 had!
let’s hope this part of the rumor is wrong, otherwise I don’t see the point either.
5.6x crop?! Wouldn’t that make all exisiting Pentax lenses practically useless on this system? (e.g. 50mm * 5,6x = 280mm!)
Just got confirmation from other sources. It is 5.5 and something 🙂
This just cannot be.
Unbelievable.
Noise Noise Noise … only this comes to my mind …
I agree that the concept of a small(er) sensor/exchangeable lens camera is somewhat intriguing and Pentax has a huge arsenal of fast CCTV lenses, which they would only have to adapt and slightly modernise. That said, a 1/2.33″ sensor really is too small.
A compact camera with an f1.2/35mm-equivalent lens and a back-lit 2/3″ (or 1/1,63″) sensor I would immediately buy. I would carry it around with me all day if it’d be fast (no lens to extend), small, light, unobtrusive and had the image quality of an LX5/D-Lux 5/S95. With an extremely fast lens there would be no need for ISO 1600+ and depth of field would still be large enough due to the small sensor. Make it cheaper than the MFT cameras (just recently bought a new GF1 with the f1.7/20mm for less than $600!) and I’ll be a new customer!
What a complete and total waste of R&D resources by Pentax. An interchangeable lens camera with a sensor that small is utterly pointless.
With a sensor that small why bother with interchangeable lenses at all? You’ll have next to no DOF control no matter what lens you mount on it. The only thing that will really change is the field of view. I’d rather just get the Olympus XZ1 with it’s f/1.8-2.5 28-112mm eqv lens and not fiddle with changing lenses at all.
Actually, I Know I’d rather have the Olympus because this Pentax is using a sensor even smaller than the XZ1’s! What a total joke of a camera this will be. Ugggghhhh!
Sensor smaller then Aps-c = NOT INTERESTED!
“5.6x crop?! Wouldn’t that make all exisiting Pentax lenses practically useless on this system? (e.g. 50mm * 5,6x = 280mm!)”
Not really Pentax makes more C mount lenses than K mount or m42 were ever made. As they are related to Kenko it’s more than likely both systems will use the same sensor and lenses. I owuld think the lenses coming are optimised for Photo use as current c mount lenses were all designed with video usage in mind
I could see a 110 based look as an alternate to the kenko design. There was a pretty good market for the 110 and the image size on 110 film was pretty damn small compared to 35mm at the time (13 × 17 mm – it enlarged very poorly) I would think even this small a sensor would easily outperform 110 for quality) the idea of being able to carry a camera and 2-3 lenses in my pockets is damn appealing. for other uses I have a SLRs and medium format cameras
Why not just put the K-5 sensor in a digital auto 110 body and use the existing mount?
If this rumor is true its either the stupiest thing ever created in the digital age, or that tiny sensor they´re gonna use is something out of this world in terms of dynamic range and iso/noise performance.
I think Eddie is right, it would make sense. Minox sold a lot of cameras back in the film days..
Pentax has managed to squeeze out more performance from a sony sensor than either nikon or sony themselves could, and got the k5 squeezing past some ff sensors over at dxo, so it is likely that this camera with cctv lenses will be built like a jewel, and able to hold it’s own against 4/3’s class cameras and top tier compacts out there without cannibalizing sales from Pentax entry level dslrs.
back in the film days there were no camera phones ….
true. but there were disposable cameras….. why would anybody pay big money for a dslr when you could get the exact same film in a disposable? Image quality.
This new camera does not need to beat an aps-c camera for quality, it needs to match bridge and micro 4/3s to cash in on a hot market.
Pixel binning, and what ever noise reduction algorithms that pentax used to push the k5 past some ff sensors applied to this tiny sensor might just be up to the task.
No I won’t sell my d-slrs, but I’m not the guy they are trying to sell this to. They have a k5 with my name on it…
Gah!
Morons! Why should I buy into a mirrorless system that gives me worse image quality than I can get with a Panasonic LX5, a Canon S95, a Nikon P7000 or an Olympus XZ-1?
Pentax is FAIL.
Unless, of course, they’re using this rumor as a smokescreen for their REAL mirrorless development. That would be dead clever.
A hoax
Just look at the responses. 100% negative.
there is no camera maker to ignore every person they encounter when dumping research money on a new camera system.Of course is smoke. Pentax can not make an idiotic mistake after 2 years of nice growth.
let’s wait for the real stuff
Just depends, if the price is low enough to see it as an experiment, then there may a market for it. But if it is true, what I can say is I won’t pay $300 for a system while an RS100 just cost $90 with a zoom lens attached.
If Pentax is smart enough to lower the price, say $60, I won’t mind to get one. lol
there is no depends. You answered yourself. There is no way you can make lenses for 50-100$ and sell few hundreds. This camera (if true) is an answer to an inexistent problem.
Compared to my Lumix TZ-10, which has already 12 MP sensor of that size and a very good 24-300mm (fullframe equiv.) zoom and AVCHD HD video (which uses h.264 scheme as well): What should be a reason to buy the pentax mini-mirrorless??? Interchangeable lenses where there is not need to change them at all???
This has got to be a joke… The thing is, if it’s true, then the joke is on Pentax themselves!
People aren’t buying into mirrorless mainly because you can change lenses. They are buying for the size/IQ compromise. A sensor this small has got a 0% chance of success. 🙁
right…noise noise noise
I hope, for Pentax’s sake, that your source is trolling.
It makes sense if they use something like Fuji EXR-sensor, not otherwise
RIDICULOUS…..
Isn’t it that
Pentax=Hoya=Kenko
so the same sensor specs are surely no coincidence.
Hannes
Hoya made more money from Pentax’s medical and cctv imaging than d-slrs last year so it stands to reason if they can sell more cctv lenses….
Don’t forget than Pentax should present 2 new cameras in a near future.
And, i think than it’s a pretty good move, i’m almost sure than it will be a hit on theb Japanese market.
What the interest to make another micro4/3 cam, or something apparent, they take a different way : miniaturisation with decent lens quality. Let’s just hope than the sensor is very good.
Arno
This must be either a prank or the worst idea ever.
Man… I waited 3 hours for this?
+1..its the only way (with all due respect) to bring traffic from the 4/3 rumors to here…this site is very slow normaly
DOA
So, without having to try to do the mind numbing math, how big is this sensor compared to say a Canon G12 sensor size?
Smaller. The G12 sensor is approx 8 x 6mm, while this is approx 6.2 x 4.6mm.
The sensor size is an dissapointment, and it’s get even worse when lens spec is revealed. It could have been justified with small sensor IF the lenses was fast, but they’re not, so this is double dissapointing.
Ok, one brand is off my list.
1/1.7″ is 7.6 x 5.7 mm
1/2.3″ is 6.16 x 4.62 mm
hence 1/2.3″ is about 81% the length, 80% the width of 1/1.7″. which means 1/2.3″ is 66% the area of 1/1.7″.
the sensor is most probably sony-made and the same/similar ones have already been used in countless fixed-lens compacts by many manufacturers, the Canon SX30 just to name one famous example. the only manufacturers who use their own tiny sensor in their P&S cameras are Panasonic and Fuji,( all other mfr’s use Sony P&S/tiny sensors). So to say that because the Kenko and the rumored Pentax has the same sensor specs that means something is just over the top of reading to much into the info.
Another useless point and shoot camera.
personally, this sounds very interesting to me … I probably wouldn’t buy it, but a lot of people would … IF Pentax made it really pocketable AND they made a few small f1.0 lenses … of course, the system wouldn’t be about DOF control, but about available light and pocketable size
seriously, the more I think about it, the more it makes sense
Sony NEX and m4/3 arent pocketable … they are only a fragment (or two :P) smaller than a Pentax DSLR with a Limited on to it … if you can’t pocket it easily, whats the difference between it and a K5 with a limited?
You have to realize or read mft forums to understand why people choose the format. Even tho they aint pocketable with every lens some are but its also alot about weight. A big DSLR+a few lenses has alot more weight to it than m4/3+few a small lenses. Maybe not pocketable but still alot more smaller and less weight to carry.
“the more I think about it, the more it makes sense”
if it takes just one pence, then automatically it makes no sense! 🙂 seriously compact cameras are compact enough and are equipped with fairly versatile single fixed lens (G12 has a larger 1/1.7″ sensor and a lens that does excellent macro + WA @ 28mm-eq and tele @ 140mm-eq, P7000 same sensor and it goes from 28 to 200mm eq) what’s the point of having multiple lenses if a single one can conveniently have such a focal range?!
+1
Only to look cool I guess? like the Minox Leica M3
“Pentax toke a very risky..”
Yes, I think Pentax is tokin’ on something…
Whatsoever, I used to hear about the news in photokina last year. But so far I see nothing about Pentax is going to stick the label on this machine.
In what sense this rumors is over 90% true?
I agree with the majority here – there’s no point in making this. There has to be something important we don’t know or this is a total disaster.
A Pentax mirrorless would IMHO only make sense if full legacy support for existing lenses exists. If they really intend to mimick the modern “mini-sensor” junk and bring yet another mount, sorry, no reason for me to buy it. I’ll rather keep my k20d then for as long as it will work and buy some more “serious” mirrorless elsewhere
I think it’s an excellent idea IF you are very clever with some unconventional optical designs. Maybe if the marketing team lets the engineers actually apply science… 😉
Ha ha! This will be even more of a flop than the richo modular system.
mmm, looking forward to seeing this in action … hope Pentax are going to put these at a £150 body and £50-100 lens price point to put some serious pressure on the over priced m43 kit
We don’t need tiny sensor interchangable camera.
We need large sensor high quality fixed lens camera!
Rumor is Pentax will license the camera to Mattel and Hasbro.
This makes no sense. For small sensor cameras, a superzoom fixed lens would have the same photographic flexibility, although with slightly slower lens. A larger sensor could have higher sensitivity, erasing the need for such fast lenses.
I cannot reason how a small-sensor ILC will be any use to a photography enthusiast, and cannot figure how it could possibly be small enough to be enthusiastically embraced by novices.
Micro Four Thirds cameras can be much more flexible, produce better image quality, and still be small enough for the enthusiast to easily carry. I could see possible use if it had a 3x or 4x crop factor, but to have a 5.6x crop places it in a territory slightly better than mobile phones, but less useful than a Canon compact. Perhaps, if they produced only 3 or 4 lenses, it could be considered a very flexible compact, but still less flexible than a u43 camera.
Now, if it were as small as the auto 110, perhaps that’s something, but this seems poorly conceived. I had originally thought perhaps Pentax would use a 14mm image circle, making the system a bit smaller than u43 but still of higher quality than a compact. If this rumor is true, Pentax has just committed to building a camera with little market potential, having a smaller sensor than even many good compacts.
in a history of camera rumors.
An ILC with a sensor smaller than m43 could make sense. But not as small as this.
you need to google Pentax’s line of cctv lenses.
With all the engineering already done, there is a HUGE selection of lenses that if Pentax uses the c-mount will fit and cover every need, more extensive than any 4/3 brand.
even if the mount is different (possibly Auto 110) Pentax has only to modify the mount…
If the image quality matches other high end p&S cameras, this could easily be a home run for Pentax.
At least they aren’t throwing their lot in with 4/3’s and relying on getting scraps from the OLY/PANNY juggernaught…
Why not, I would like to carry miniature camera with me with all controls. NEX is nice thing but the lenses are too large, same words for 4/3. With android phone inside it would be even better and with some pancake lens …. Technically it should allow to shoot under normal office and home lighting and provide also RAW format and all manual controls and ext flash interface.
If there is no phone inside, I hope they will add bluetooth or wi-fi soon to communicate without SD card interface. Because such camera is more social than DSLR is now.
Compacts are nice but they are incredibly slow in all ways I look, Canon G11 among them and there is no lenses to chose from. Moreover compacts would not last if you use them to shoot one thousand photos and then another 1000. All my Canons have sensors broken after warranty, I have 3 of them.
C-mount lenses have an image circle that would fit an m43 sized sensor.
Using C-mount lenses with a 1/2.3? sensor means most of the image circle goes to waste. Just doesnt make sense.
A slightly smaller sensor than m43 would be another story.
An “auto 110” mount would be a fine historic return. The 110 film format almost equals an m43 sensor.
You are wrong, there are different C-mount machine vision/FA or CCTV lenses designed for 1/3″, 1/2″, 2/3″, 1″ and some actually designed for 1.3″ or 4/3″ sensors (released by Schneider Optics and coming soon by Kowa). Lenses designed for smaller sensors will usually cheaper as well because of its limitation on optical resolution. Buying C-mount lenses designed for the right sensor will not be a waste.
Finally. A system camera with worse image quality than new and upcoming smartphones.
But of course the whole thing is just a silly rumour with no truth whatsoever.
Let’s not get too carried away with negativity. . .yet.
This is, after all, just the first of two.
Imagine they put out this first camera with C mount registration distance, but have a bayonet mount with a much larger flange throat.
That would allow for a larger sensor (APS-C) in the second camera, while maintaining c-mount lens compatibility, having a single new mount and making for easier backwards compatibility with K and other full frame lens mounts.
I doubt whether sensor-shift image stabilization will be implemented because many Pentax DC do not have optical or mechanical image stabilization at all.
I don’t understand why anyone would want a system camera that has less performance than current P&S cameras. Until they produce lenses (and sensors) that outperform cameras like the Olympus XZ-1 with an f1.8 lens and 28-112 zoom, then these miniature system cameras don’t serve much purpose.
Answering my own question, perhaps it could be useful for people that want a shirt or shorts pocketable camera that can take a wide angle image wider than 24-28mm, something that is not currently available in P&S cameras? The market does not seem big enough to warrant the trouble though.
If pocketability is the key issue here, then it is going to be interesting to see how Pentax implement this camera. My guess is that they will need to implement collapsing lenses that collapse back into a very thin body, much like fixed lens P&S cameras do now, or the whole point of being small enough for a pocket will be lost.
Personally I would like to see Olympus do more work on their collapsing lenses so they can make an EPL3 with collapsed lens about the same size as their XZ-1 🙂
Precisely zero Pentax DC lenses have stabilization, which is why they WOULD be likely to have sensor shift.
“Personally I would like to see Olympus do more work on their collapsing lenses so they can make an EPL3 with collapsed lens about the same size as their XZ-1”
Me too. Why haven’t they done that yet?
Most of the image circle on a c-mount lens is garbage, so it’s actually not “wasted” unless you wanted really soft corners, which sometimes you might.
Who is the author of this crazy rumor? Should we trust him?
There is no point making a camera smaller than giving it a 1″ mount (CS mount size). That’s tiny already. The Auto 100 which the rimor says is the original to be copied has a mount about this diameter too.
The Auto 110 is a crop 2.0x camera (like FT) and the Pentax C/CS lenses for 2/3″ specify a FoV which horizontally is exactly 50% of 2/3″, corresponding to a crop factor of 4.0x and some 1″ C lenses almost go up to 2.0x crop.
So, if Auto 110 is 2x crop and C mount is about 3x crop then I don’t see why to assume that Pentax would plan to release a 5.6x crop camera (1/2″ C mount). Just doesn’t make sense. Except of course they need a still body for thier $12,000 C61233WP lens which is 1/2″ only
@at
OK my bad. My knowledge about C-mount was limited to those I have seen fitted to GH1 and NEX.
Still dosnt change my opinion about the sensibility of it all.
A mount an sensor size that has some heritage with Auto 110 could have potential. Same as Olympus that exploit the “pen” heritage to the max.
The world of C-mount lens is complicated. Especially it is divided into C and CS system. CS is mainly produced for lower budget surveillance setup which several manufacturers make this kind of lenses such as D.O. Industrial, Edmund Optics, Kowa, Fujinon, Navitar, Pentax (Tokina), Panasonic, Tamron, Samsung and tons of made in China products. The price is vary and depends on the spec and the resolution resolving power for specific function. In fact, we may be open mind to this small sensor system because 1/2.33″ means some 1/2 and 1/3 CS lens can be used. For example, Fujinon has a manual focus and aperture CS lens with 2.8-9mm f/0.95 which roughly produces 18-54mm FOV equivalent to the 35mm system in extreme large aperture. I know the DOF is not comparable but there is no such a DC produced in such an attractive specification!
In fact, lot of C/CS mount lens are underrated. If you have met their 1.3″ Xenoplan C-mount series of Schneider, you might be shocked by its ultra sharpness and color rendition. There is also other choices such as Pentax 25mm f/1.4. I believe it should be produced anyway but the last question is will Pentax adjust the price to an acceptable level. If the price is as low as a Yashica EZ-f521, there may be another miracle for the camera industry.
It’s a pity that Pentax have chosen such a small sensor. The film format of the old Auto 110 was nearly the same size as four thirds but the camera was very basic, few controls and the add on flash and motor wind made the camera much bigger.
So I presume Pentax has looked at the sales of Sony NEX and decided that the public wants tiny cameras with interchangable lenses and then gone for the tiny sensor.
A couple of years ago Fuji made a superzoom (S100fs I think) which is possibly the last camera made with the 2/3 inch format. If somebody had brought out an interchangable lens camera with that sensor size a few years ago when I had my old Minolta 7i camera, I would have been interested.
The Pentax may turn out to be the thing that micro four thirds users have been looking for, a camera with a small sensor that they can look down on!
It’s a joke…
If this will turn out to be true many pentaxians intending to complement their DSLR gear with a compact EVIL will be driven into the arms of panasonic, olympus & co. But anyway…these are just rumors.
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