The NXF1 model number
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Samsung likes to hint their future camera strategy by listing not yet announced cameras on their support page. Today there is a new NX camera called “NXF1“. And that added “F” gives us big hope that this will be the first Samsung Full Frame mirrorless camera. If that’s true it will have to be damn good to compete against the just announced Sony A7 and A7r cameras!
To nor repeat their failure with the APS-C NX series Samsung has to reinvent the wheel with the new FF system. I hope they come up with some features that really MAKE a difference. On my wish list:
– Foveon Full Frame sensor
– Hybrid viewfinder like the Fuji X-PRO 1
– Price $1000
I know I am dreaming here. But if they only do one of the mentioned points than yes they will have my attention 🙂
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via Dpreview forum.
56 Responses
Just as likely a Fixed lens large sensor camera.
Yeah, right. We have heard it before. How many times do they think they can cry wolf? Enough talk already, let’s see some hardware.
Foveon? Do you have some top secret information about it? I think an APSC sized new Foveon sensor would be good enough. Hybrid viewfinder and tiltable screen is the way to go high end mirrorless.
Wishful thinking. Use of Foveon tech would require a partnership with Sigma and I don’t see why either company would want to collaborate with the other. Samsung can make their own sensors and Sigma can make their own cameras just fine. What they both lack is the vision needed to create compelling products.
” Price $1000″
Yeah, keep on dreaming!
What is the price on the WiFi gadget with an APS-C sensor…
Without native lenses, FF mirrorless are doomed if corner performance with legacy lenses does not improve.
If Samsung tries to be original they utterly fail every time which they should have learned by now. I hope they just copy Sony and bring the real thing.
I wouldn’t be surprised if it was again one of their weird inventions though. Maybe a Galaxy Note with a NX mount?
Please no Full frame interchangeable lens camera.
A Full frame interchangeable lens camera would mean: a bigger mount is needed.
Samsung has not the market share to keep 2 mounts in long term ( i even doubt Sony keeps its 2 mounts longterm ).
So this would be the end to NX , or the samsung FF mount would be only temporary.
So if Samsung goes “bigger sensor”, then please something that fits into NX ( and i like Nx ).
FF ist only good for the current hype in marketing, APS-H or 24*24mm square would more than good enough for pro photography. – and would fit into the NX mount.
Finally an intelligent post! Only one pro photographer in a hundred needs FF. Only one in a thousand needs MF. But in all these websites a lot of false pro photographers are sworing they really need bigger sensors. Not true at all. Don´t trust them. APSC is more than enough for most professional photographers. Four Thirds is also good enough fore most uses.
The NX mount has no problem with FF sensors.
Samsung would never use Foveon unless the majority of the market is using it. Think – copy not innovate. The idea is to make more of the same as the others but compete in price.
The reason for the popularity of the FT, NEX and X has been the possibility to attach M-Leica lenses. The Nx mount is almost the size and distance as M-leica, therefore it has not been possible to have an m-leica adapter.
The NX lenses biggest problem is the low quality of the coating, so the lens has internal reflections as reduce the image quality.
CityBreaks wrote “The NX mount has no problem with FF sensors.”
Sorry, its wrong.
I just measured the inner diameter of my NX-mount camera, thats on the metal part of the mount 42 mm ( = the answer to the question of the universe ).
On the lower part its only 40-41 mm because the lensholding black parts inside the mount.
A 36*24mm sensor has according sqrt(24^2 * 36^2) a diameter of exactly 43.26mm accourding my calculator and there should be some space between mount edge and sensor corners.
So a FF sensor definitively does not fit into the NX mount, even if no space would be necessary between mount and sensor ( projected in photography direction, that means the distance you see if you look from the front ).
A sensor which is only 10% less than FF, would fit , and if Samsung uses the same space as Sony then 20% less than FF might be what would fit as good as the sony FF sensor into the Sony Nex Mount. But better would be APS-H for Samsung because the sony Sensor does work but on Sony the small distance to the mount is a problem for Sony lens design.
That’s a lie. NX lenses have very good IQ, you would know if you have ever used them. Second, this Samsung copy thing is tiring, every company copies after another. Every camera is a copy of every other camera, no surprise there.As for m43 being popular because of leica….how many folks who buy the majority of dslrs and cameras do you see running around with m43 cameras with leica lenses? You make it sound like leica lenses are cheap and plentiful. Leica is for photo snobs, was and alwyas will be. and if you were a camera company and you made a camera system for leica users, you would be bankrupt in no time. Samsung and any other company are not in the business to make leica money. It just so happens by coincidence that mirrorless cameras like m43 and fuji and sony can take leica lenses with an adapter. If leica users want to use their leica lenses, than they should stop be cheap wads and buy a leica camera.
The NX lens maybe not have the top lens coating, but they use high quality glass, even in their kit lens. And that is the reason they have a bit of the old German glass taste for their lens, contrast is not that high but have a good color gradient, IMO.
The Samsung lenses are pretty damn good, even their kit lenses. You just need to go out and compare even their kit lenses to old japanese classic primes. You will be surprised, I garantee it. So many ppl on this site do nothing but spew and regurgitate false statements and mud thrown out there by various shills and fanboys with no basis of truth what so ever. All the mirrorless kit lenses are very good, and the primes are slightly better in sharpness if it is at all. The NX lenses do not have a coating problem or contrast problem, only like many other lenses, if you are shooting into the sun, but then what lens will not suffer lower contrast? If you don’t believe me than put on an old nikkor or whatever legendary lens you can find, you will then know what real low contrast and bad coatings are like. The modern mirrorless lenses are really good if ppl will just use them instead of “imagining” IQ problems because they have brainwashed themselves to think of them as ” the crappy kit lens” before they even use it and SEE what it can do.
and 640K ram ought to be enough for anybody.
/case closed
I bet that most people asking for larger sensors, more pixels, etc never even print their photos any bigger than 5 x 7, or only look at them on a computer screen at 400% magnification. They actually only need 2 megapixel cameras with very tiny sensors. Four thirds, aps-c and full frame cameras are whey beyond most people’s needs on these forums.
I agree full frame is too big for most folks, but it’s not true that m43 and up is too big for most people. The average person takes a lot of indoor shots. Larger sensors do much better indoor and in low light. Many nowadays want that depth of field and bokeh ability in their pictures. That too requires a large sensor. The cell phone camera is ruining household photography, and many are looking for a high quality second option to their phone.
Many families like the ability to print their own 8X10’s or 16X20’s for their walls. Avg people want to see connectivity options in their cameras and touch screens too. Samsung has done a good job with this. Posting straight to Facebook from camera is nice. NFC is nice. Keeping the devices small is important. Improving autofocus speed is important.
This line of argument is utter nonsense. If markets were dictated only by what people “need,” we’d all be driving an efficient Model T (those got 25 mpg in 1908 btw)… or perhaps even a horse & buggy.
While it’s true our world might be a bit better off if we all drove a buggy to work, it would be far less interesting.
First time I have heard the NX system is a failure. Could you elaborate on that point please.
They wanted to become numer one in the mirrorless market. They didn’t achieve that.
Alas, they never will with such products as galaxy nx.
They could have dominated the market with an omd like camera, with all the pro features and a newer aps-c sensor, offered for around 1000$. That’s the only way in which they can get market share.
A leica exec once said that they would have a “canon killer”…LOL. They didn’t have that and never will. These mirrorless camera companies thought that mirrorless would replace dslrs. Thye have failed miserbaly as well.Canon has the last laugh and was right all along when they called these other companies..” loser camera companies”.
DSLR is dead. It’s the end of the road for the mirror. Destroy mirror or be destroyed.
Yeah, destroy the mirror, get nothing in return. pay more for less or pay more for a crappy evf. Yes, you are so right, I want to be ripped off like you too. Please camera companies, make me just the mount and no camera too, I want to throw my money at you for nothing.
yes, take out the mirror and give you nothing in return..that makes sense. Next thing to do is take out the sensor and put film back in.
In your dreams.
> – Foveon Full Frame sensor
One can only dream.
First of all it should provide a new mount as the NX-mount can not be adapted to carry M-mount lenses.
It’s one of the main reasons NX never gained traction beyond the small percentage that bought into it.
I almost bought an NX100, and that was a factor in not getting one, the nail in the coffin was the live view lag, it was horrible, the DSLR shaped bodies still had it, I ended up with a NEX-7 which effectively has no such lag, and have been very happy I went this way.
So many ppl owning ultra expoensive M lenses????
Can anybody find NX300 support on Samsung US page? It’s few weeks I can see only NX210 there.
Samsung, if you are listening, do a rangefinder style caméra as Fuji ex2 or Sony Nex7, but as a fullframe. You Will be the first and that will make a difference. Do also a nice lightweight and fast zoom 24-105 (I know, I am asking much) and a 85mm 1,4 or 1,8 lens. This would be a huge success!!
Yes and they should change their name. No one likes to have a high tech gadget around the neck that shares its name with a washing machine. The failure of the NX cameras does not seem to be something to worry about. I am sorry for seeming snobish, but no pseudo NEX 7 or Fuji pro is going to cut for Samsung. I suggest that they search for a classic photo name, should we send them some suggestions then?
This was two years ago, Samsung’s three-layer image sensor patent documents.
(Similar to the Foveon X3 CMOS)
https://data.epo.org/publication-server/rest/v1.0/publication-dates/20110706/patents/EP2341542NWA2/document.pdf
This is Taiwan’s Forum, a discussion on two years ago?
http://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=556&t=2243147
Obviously, not many people care about.
I sincerily don’t care much for the hybrid VF or a Foveon style sensor (it would only make it more expensive than the 1,000 bucks mark you want)
While Samsung has some nice glass and basic prime pancakes, a whole new lineup of lenses might be out of their reach? One shall never give up hope, they’d have the cash and distribution channels. If Samsung is really forward looking, who knows, Samsung might be in it – with Fujifilm following suit, then Olympus…
What failure, admin?? My NX300 is fantastic, and so are the 30mm, 45mm, 60mm and 85mm primes.
maybe because Samsung is always a failure?
For a company that makes billions every year, I’d like to be a failure like that too.
Well, the Galaxy NX is $1600. So $1000 is not gonna happen I guess. And I don’t think they have Foveon. Smasung seems not interested in Pro market. They seem more intereted in mass market and I have a feeling they are not gonna or don’t have a skill to make FF cameras. That’s my guess. Of course if they bring one like the post, then it’ll be a hot news 🙂
As a customer, what I want is to know that once I “buy in” to a system, that the investment I make is worthwhile. By worthwhile I mean things like:
– Are there the lenses and accessories I need to fulfill my creative vision
– Are those accessories and lenses of good enough quality that I will be happy to put my name on the final product?
– Will the system be in active development in one year, five years, ten years?
The answer to many of the above questions is maybe or no in the case of Samsung NX and any future proprietary Samsung mount, if they instead worked on an open mount specification for a FF mirrorless many of these concerns would be addressed – but they think they are good enough to go it alone against Canon, Sony and Nikon in this market. This is not the TV Panel market where you can just undercut competitors and flood the market, photographers wont buy crap just because it will save them some money in the short term. Sure you will be able to shift a few to the uninformed at retail but you will never pick up the market presence you have come to expect in your other endeavors.
Open up the mount spec so others can fill in the gaps that you leave, don’t try to lock us in by reducing our choices. Lock us in by providing the best product for our needs.
no foveon ,they can produce ISOCELL 35mm sensor beat A7R
Foveon? What for? To get the highest sensor resolution at low ISO? While the image quality would degrade from ISO 800 and never catch up with what other competitors do??? Also, from a marketing point of view, meaning basically 3 times less “real” megapixels?
That would target only a very restricted kind of needs, not for Mr and Mrs Anybody…hence would never happen.
Which company has the fab to make the FF CMOS to match the one in the A7? I think not yet.
The biggest problem with Samsung will always be the camera and their commitment to nx. Samsung clearly is not willing to spend untold millions to chase down Canikon, and so it’s easy to see that they are going to make NX more of a 3rd choice type of system, like their PS cameras were to Canikon and Sony Ps cameras. The NX lenses are fine, they have nice pancakes and primes and their lenses always get a good reviews.
If you don’t invest much in a system as a company then the pay out will be less. That is it appears that Samsung is slowing down on their camera models, they are not spending enough to keep up and are one step behind with the camera tech…which isn’t all that bad if you aren’t a person that needs to get new tech every year in year out. Maybe Samsung NX is catering to more of a Korean taste, just like many Japanese cameras are made seemingly for the Japan market. Pricing is also too high for NX. I have played around with the nx20, it’s not the best mirrorless out there by far but it’s not bad either. I wouldn’t say no if someone gave that camera to me. The camera is certainly not worth what its price is retail but that’s not my decision and Samsung probably knows that because ppl will always vote with their wallets. Whether or not Samsung cares is really up to them if they want more or less users of their system. I wouldn’t invest heavily in NX but then again I wouldn;t invest alot of money on any mirrorless out there. The handling and features and resale value of mirrorless systems do not justify that.
fail?
I think not.
They do very well in Asia (China and Korea), fyi.
Wherever you live is not a sample of it’s success.
>> – Price $1000
Good point 🙂
I agree on the price. 1000/1200 is the maximum that bold ppl would spend in a samsung body, even if very good.
I certainly wouldn’t invest in a Samsung “Camera System” as I’d be too afraid to be stuck with a bunch of unusable lenses, when they dump the system. But if they chose to make a Full Frame Mirrorless that can make full use of my manual 35mm lenses (like an A7 would) then I would certainly consider it.
Manual lenses? This is 21th Century! Do you know autofocus lenses can be used in manual mode? And what´s the point of using an only manual lens in a camera with very fast and reliable autofocus performance? Better go and buy a Leica rangefinder (BTW, I own one, a film M3 camera).
Glad for you and your Leica M3 😉
Lens mount diameter is greater than the full-frame format, and it can produce full-frame format can cover image circle, there is no relationship.
Example: The projector is only about 10cm diameter lens, you can put out more than 100 “screen, you can see the answer.
Instead, it should be worried about the angle of incidence will inevitably relatively large, it may cause relatively NEX, X system serious loss of light the corners of the problem.
But the Samsung NX system flange distance (BACK FOCAL DISTANCE), compare SONY FUJIFILM, they have much deeper, so its loss of light problem, I believe without undue worry.
Matt Jones is right. There is serious problem with Samsung lensmount.
Please take off the lens from Samsung camera and see where electrical contacts are located. Now tell me: can you fit FF sensor there without removing electrical contacts? Samsung lensmount is noodle lensmount. It’s too far from sensor (flange) and it’s diameter is too small for Ff. The small diameter also impairs the capability to make fast FF lenses. Even if the make curved sensor (spherical sensor) the electrical contacts location will be a BIG problem. With this lensmount Samsung cannot compete against sony, canon and Fuji. See Fuji lensmount. It is also rather small in diameter, but electrical contacts easily allow to fit Ff sensor inside.
On the top of the above, people with common sense have to notice that Samsung has very little to offer in APS-C at this time. Their sensor is inferior. The flash system does not exist. the flash synch is worse than in point and shoot. Impossible to make double exposure (even point and shoot offer that). No pro lenses except of 60 macro and 85 mm. They made 45 mm lens made of metal but they “forgot” to put some better glass into it. People who have good lenses are loyal to the brand. See 20 mm pancake that I call softer because it’s so un-usable on the corners. Whey not to make it f2.0 and put some exotic glass into it? why not to put ED glass into 30 mm pancake? The 30 mm pancake has very small glasses so putting ED would cost a little more but the lens would be much better optically. Read about wide angle zoom. The glued two parts of lens together and there were few well documented cases (read dpreview) when the lens split in two parts ;-)))))))))))))))))
Samsung promised a lot of lenses and delivered none. They were so stupid they thought that putting G3 and G4 wireless connection will make them number 1 camera maker ;-))))))))))) See how noodle design they delivered in galaxy nx camera. the body looks like Halloween camera. Nobody buys that monstrocity.
and I forgot to mention that Samsung does not allow you to reverse the lens. The are very malicious. They do not want you to enjoy camera. Also the rangefinder lenses do not work on Samsung. In Ff mirrorless, no maker can deliver from day 1 all necessary lenses. But sony FF mirrorless allows leica user to gradually retire leica lenses. They can use their leica lenses till sony makes FF mirrorless lenses. Samsung lensmount is a NOODLE lensmount.
Samsung, here is my “Samsung wish”
I wish I never got Samsung camera. Please buy it back from me for 25% of price I paid. I tried to make trade in of this camera for Ff sony mirrorless in B&H and they told me that they do not take samsung cameras for trade in. You are famous sasmung. You are the ONLY ONE they do not take in trade in.
Again on this? I replied to you about the reverse lenses on this same blog:
http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/samsung-nx300m-now-officially-launched/
Please read.
Samsung has yet to impress me and will most likely NEVER impress me in this camera field. Build quality of the cameras and lenses when I held all of them was so horrible and cheap I could not comprehend why people would even buy it (probably of the low price point which WILL depreciate heavily within the next years). Second is their overly obsessed with Android and will always try to stick Android into anything they make, ugh … talking about stupidly low battery life. And their price is hilarious, considering pricepoint of some of their Android APS-C DSLR for $1600, at least for Samsung, the price of $1000 FF will mostly never become a reality.