UPDATE: The Leica SL has now been announced!
Leica SL camera and lens preorders:
Camera and Lens preorders at BHphoto (Click here).
Leica SL camera at BHphoto (Click here) and Adorama (Click here).
Leica SL 24-90mm at BHphoto (Click here) and Adorama (Click here).
—–
Original post (leak before the announcement):
Our reader Mistral (Thanks) spotted the very first image of the new Leica SL camera! The camera will be announced today at 19:30 Berlin time. Follow the live blogging here on MR!
The leak came through the Italian site Fotografia.it (they now removed the content). That is the translation from the italian press text:
“Leica SL: the new concept Full Frame
With the SL series Leica is a new choice; using the latest technologies in dress mirrorless offers a technologically advanced machine and the dimensions similar to those of the M rangefinder.
The next issue of Tutti Fotografi will publish the exclusive test of the prototype.
The basic technical data are as follows.
The 24-megapixel sensor, with no anti-aliasing filter, is a full-frame CMOS. The electronic viewfinder LCD has a resolution of 4 million points and is at the top of the EVF for definition and sharpness, as well as for the 60 fps refresh.
The rear screen is not adjustable, but is Touch; it is surrounded by buttons anonymous-style S for tidy interface. Body and lenses are tropicalized.
The SL will handle auto focus with contrast detection on a grid of 49 points in the viewfinder optimally arranged to cover not only the core area, but also off-center subjects.
Together with Leica camera body are presented three lenses, stabilized and equipped with bayonet T, hence the compatibility with the objectives for the smaller size, and its crop frame.
Also adapters can be mounted almost all Leica optical system.Zoom 24-90mm f/2.8-4
Zoom 90-280mm f/2.8-4
Fixed focus 50mm f/1.4.The price of the Leica SL is € 6,900.”
The price with 24-90mm as kit lens will be around 10.000 Euro. And yes, it has T-mount!
Leica definitely did choose a modern and somehow Sony A7 alike design.
The Italian reviewer had that prototype SL for testing:
Today at exactly 19:30 Berlin time Leica Germany will unveil the new SL system mirrorless camera. I will make a full live coverage of the early news and reviews. So be my guest on MR today! 🙂
Oh and if you want to read more exciting rumors and leaks on future cameras just subscribe here to not miss any of them: RSS feed, Facebook and Twitter.
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231 Responses
Interesting for rich people. What I find interesting for most people are the two zooms that have great reach (much better than the classic duo – 24-70 & 70-200) and are still fast ones. My guess is that both the standard and the tele sport the f3.2 maximum aperture @ the common 70 and 200 focals.
I just wish that Canon, Nikon and Sony would consider using such focals and apertures in their zooms.
P.S. A 12-24 f2.8-4 would also be a good idea.
I would bet it is already f/4 at 70 and 200, or f/3.8 at best.
too expensive to be interesting!
It seems that Leica thinks that Sony did it right!
This is going to sell a lot of Sony A7Rii cameras.
I guess Leica is staying in the niche business
A red dot *AND* the name splashed across the front? Really? Will we have to shoot monochrom versions to get rid of those or is there a $300 roll of marching gaffers tape option?
there will be a Lenny Kravitz edition, with a suitcase, a pair of pants with a hole and two lenses limited to 200 pieces for 35k each.
1) overpriced
2) old sensor
3) stolen design
leader is a7rII, this is a AF-toy for not fotograthers, it is a toy for justin Bieber
What makes you think it’s an old sensor?
leica is not really known to be using cutting edge sensors in their 35mm bodies
I see many beautiful photos taken even with a “crappy” M9 or M8.2. How is it possible?!
He was just responding to the “old sensor” statement. And it’s no secret that Leica used old sensor technology, but in anyway “old” mean “crappy”.
Leica propably stick to old sensor because they have made their proof so they can predict the output.
Less risky than ordering a brand new design that can’t reach your expectation.
This stunning mosaic was shot with a crappy compact cam. Sometimes a good surgeon and makeup matter more than the camera used!
Leica M9 sensor is:
*prone to corrosion
*mediocre high ISO
*needs chromatic NR due to weak CFA
*strong pixel vignetting & colorshift
If someone gets good images from M9, it’s more due to person holding the camera and doesn’t tell much about its sensor quality.
Mine was just sarchasm. I’m tired of reading comments judging cameras basing only on sensor capabilities. Try to tell a chef that his pots are old and he can’t cook a good dish..
Yup, good photos mean that the gear is “usable to some extent”. What extent that is depends on the photographic conditions.
Many Leica fans raved about the unique IQ of a Leica M. I never could second that. To me, an M is all about the handling, the experience, to feel in contact with photography. This is what makes the M so unique: A camera design that hasn’t lost a single bit of it’s fascination over more than 60 years!
That’s a “stunning mosaic”? I’d really love to know what you think a crappy photo is.
By the way the M9 corrosion issue has been fixed. They redesigned the sensor glass and Leica is replacing any affected sensors for free. Regardless of whether you are the original owner or not.
As far as mediocre ISO, sure, but that never stopped me from shooting concerts with it and having the images shot at ISO 1250 printed in magazines with no problem.
ALL cameras need chroma noise reduction. That’s why Lightroom defaults at 25 for chroma and 0 for luminance. Pull the chroma slider down on ANY camera even at base ISO and you’re going to see chroma noise. It’s the nature of digital photography and demosaicing.
Pixel vignetting is not an issue if you use 6-bit coded lenses or program the correct lens profile into the camera. And color shift only occurs in third-party lenses and can be fixed for the most part my programming in the closest Leica lens counterpart.
Your point about the person getting good image from the M9 is true. But that goes for every camera.
Show me any your photo which got 50,000 upvotes and was reposted thousands times.
>but that never stopped me from shooting concerts
are you saying to never wished to have extra 2-3 ISO stops that state-of-art sensors allow for?
>Leica is replacing any affected sensors for free.
They made better protection for the same crappy sensor — an adequate workaround. Of course, it is an example of good service, but other sensors never had such problem in the first place!
>Pull the chroma slider down on ANY camera even at base ISO and you’re going to see chroma noise.
True. But on state-of-art sensors it’s not a major issue.
>Pixel vignetting is not an issue
It is an issue. Leica M lenses have strong vignetting themselves. Combined with pixel vignetting it even worse. You can push up corners, but at expense of noise.
>And color shift only occurs in third-party lenses
Because in native Leica lenses software hides it?
I can show you photos that have been run in national and international magazines and websites that have been seen by millions. I’ve shot for Rolling Stone, SPIN, People, Us Weekly, NY Post, Vogue, and on and on.
50,000 upvotes on the internet? THAT is your basis for saying it’s a good image? Please, that image is garbage.
Just because YOU think it’s a crappy sensor doesn’t make it so. I prefer the CCD sensor. Saying something is crappy is just your idiotic opinion. And as far as no other sensors having the same problem, I fail to see how that is Leica’s issue being that they sourced the sensors from Kodak. It’s a Kodak design flaw, not a Leica design flaw. And it took many years for the problem to even manifest. And Leica has fixed it.
I do have a state of the art sensor. The Nikon D4s and D810. I’d still rather use my Leica. I’ve had full page photos published in magazines shot with the M9-P at ISO 1250. No complaints about noise from the editors. I only use the D4s for major sporting events, and even then I carry a Leica with me. The D810 mostly collects dust.
Chroma noise isn’t a major issue on the M9 sensor either. I’m not sure which “state of the art” sensor you’re referring to but the D810 has LOTS of chroma noise at base ISO without any NR applied.
Maybe vignetting is an issue to you, but it’s not to me and many others. I quite like vignetting. And the vignetting with M lenses is actually LESS pronounced than with those of a DSLR because of the close distance of the rear element to the sensor it allows for less light fall off. Not to mention the microlenses on the M9 are at an angle in order to reduce vignetting even more.
Most camera manufacturers have lens profiles in the firmware to correct for their lenses shortcomings. It’s firmware “L” on Nikon.
So yeah…
Really, throwing this out is pointless. I’m actively exploring possibilities with my S6E, because it’s what I always carry around.
1) Well, of course, it is Leica
2) The sensor is probably the same as in Q, so not the same old Sony IMX128 everybody uses for ages. IMX128 was not nearly able to do 4k or any decent video for that matter, with only 6.9 fps readout speed.
3) to be fair, it’s the “old SLR” look everybody uses again since the first OM-D (and then Nikon Df, Sony A7, Fuji X-T1). Only somehow Olympus made it look beautiful, and everybody else, changing just a little bit, makes it ugly.
Why don’t they just use their good old rangefinder design?!? VF belongs in the corner, especially on a Leica!
The Italian website is fotografia.it (to give them proper credit):
http://www.fotografia.it/dettaglionewstecnica/20278/2015-10-20-leica-sl–il-nuovo-concept-full-frame.aspx
The Leica SL is much bigger than an Alpha 7: the lens mount has a larger inner diameter (51mm vs. 46.1mm) and yet the Leica’s body exceeds much more the lens mount than the Sony does.
Leica SL
https://rumors.limboint.dev/wp-content/uploads-legacy/mirrorlessrumors/2015/10/Leica-SL-et-objectifs.jpg
Sony Alpha 7R II
http://img1.lesnumeriques.com/produits/16/26869/ilce-7rm2_front-55cb48bede2ae_450x400.jpg
good observation
It really does look like an uglier, fat stepsister of the A7.
Disappointed.
1.) Quite expensive, yet nothing groundbreaking spec-wise
2.) Looks too much like an A7 (a bit uglier, though), nothing makes it stand out
3.) Ergonomics, usability, convenience of controls takes a huge step back. I prefer the old school of Leica philosophy, that is everything manual, but everything at your fingertips. The new school seems to be everything Auto, sacrificing controls for a sleeker design, like an expensive point-and-shoot.
Hard to see why this would sell, aside from the brand snobbery.
So, without seeing the controls, you’re making a judgement that this camera disallows controls at your fingertips? Have you used an M? It is the quintessential point and shoot. You set it, you point it, you shoot it.
Come to think of it, to a point, so is basically every camera.
I dislike the fact that the lenses have no aperture ring but that it’s set on the camera itself… I also dislike this on my Leica S system lenses. I prefer the Leica R style with the aperture close to the body. But I guess this is the modern way of building lenses…
We’ll see tonight what Leica actually brings out. I’m curious I don’t like EVF’s so it won’t be for me anyway. Sad to say. M + S is gonna stay the best combo for me, most probably.
said like a true person that can’t afford it.
That was both offensive and wrong; what’s funnier, it’s likely that I have the higher discretionary income of the two of us. I could buy a dozen of them with the cash and short-term savings on just one of my accounts. But as photography is just a hobby for me which generates no income, it makes no sense financially to spend so much on gear, even more so, when you could have more (in terms of higher specifications) for less.
Now it’s your turn, I’m interested in your reasons why it would be worth buying this over other cameras?
Very unergonomic grip!
It looks wonderful and I daresay will perform well, but I’m curious about the ergonomics: how will full manual shooting work if there’s no dial? Of course, they may have come up with some super touch sensitive system, so we’ll be drooling with envy!
The other thing is the 90-200 zoom…please Sony, that would be perfect!
BTW, admin, thanks for returning site links to the other 4 to the header.
What I wanna know if they will announce Leica “M11” and the interchangeable Q this time.
No interchangeable Q on the horizon: Q is a model on its own.
An interchangeable lens Q, I would have queued up for to buy. I never liked the A7 design genesis. Fuji makes a better MLR design. I wish Leica had copied the XT1. Although I still think my old RE is still miles better than either one. Shame. They had a chance to revitalise the T but as far as I am concerned, this is not it.
I think it is more likely for Leica to update Q to next iteration with upgraded sensors and tech, much like what Sony did with RX1.
They’ll be a new M at some point, but an interchangeable lens Q? Not a chance.
Interchangeable lens Q should be accompanied by a fixed lens M. Ramen!
Never mind the camera, I want that tele lens in FE mount!!!!!!!!!
Great job panasonic!
Looks an ordinary and very plain design. Super expensive though it is a Leica. Lenses coming in about 3,100Eu, ouch! Thats more than M lenses! Hope it performs extremely well. Makes we want to buy an M9!
If they were going to use an SLR design (rather than their more traditional viewfinder design) I wish they had modeled it after the gorgeous R3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leica_R3.
It seems most similar to the original Sony a7, but for 8x the price with fewer lenses.
Has adapter to fit Nikon and Canon lenses (and Sigma, etc). Not sure about M lenses but you’d better owning the M for them.
Leica itself offers M to T adaptor.
Yeah of course. Forgot about that. I’ve never owned a T…suspect i won’t own an SL either.
cool looking indeed !
The Ultra minimalistic bauhaus design shown in the pic would not suffer a tad of art deco in it
Oh I like the more recent R8/9 designs.
Then get yourself an S, the S closely resembles the R8/R9. 🙂 I love using both side by side, I use the S 006 and R8 a lot.
I don’t have money for any decent Leica , but I’m happy enough with an a7RII. I’ll get one when the price dips below ?17000 in China, this should happen within a month:)
The A7 series is good camera line up, although I would never understand why someone would use it with any lenses other than the originals… They are good as it is. Either go ALL Leica LENS+BODY or stay at another brand… I mean it’s like buying and M (Typ 240) and then cheaping out on lenses and using Carl Zeiss ZM lenses or Voightlander lenses.
I love the S (Typ 006) it’s medium format but does have the 3:2 ratio I love, sure it’s slow, and big, and heavy… but it’s amazing to use and I like it.
Just use what you like really, and don’t let yourself be pulled down by all those online threads about what is best etc. In the end it’s about the photo not the gear you took it with.
I’ve got quite some great photos that I shot on film with the R8 which is the ‘cheapest’ camera I have. Doesn’t make the photos any less, it actually might make them more… since I did it with ‘just a old Leica R8’
“cheaping out on lenses and using Carl Zeiss ZM lenses or Voightlander lenses
Are you joking? Both Zeiss and Voigtländer produce excellent lenses. Voigtländer is nailing it recently. The new 50mm f/1.5 Nokton and the 35mm f/1.7 Ultron are exceptional. The 35 is coming close to Summicron resolution.
And if you want the fastest 35mm M lens out there Voigtländer is the only option. The 35mm f/1.2 Nokton v.II is also a phenomenal lens. It’s got a Noctilux look wide open and Summicron sharpness when stopped down.
And the Zeiss 50mm Planars are damn near Summicron sharpness as well. Some say even better.
You’re talking out of the side of your neck if you think Zeiss and Voigtländer aren’t in the same league as Leica. You sound like Ken f’n Rockhead.
I didn’t say that, for me it’s just that I don’t see the point of buying lenses from another brand.
I just use my M with the lenses I have 28mm Summicron ASPH, 50mm Summilux ASPH because these lenses are the lenses I like.
As I said later: use what you want and makes you happy…
But I don’t understand why anyone would use an M with Zeiss or Voight lenses, just like I don’t understand why anyone would use an A7 with Leica lenses if there are excelent native lenses available.
Thats a bit the point I was trying to put across.
The Zeiss and Voigt ARE native to Leica. They are designed SPECIFICALLY for the M-mount Leicas. No adapter required. Third party lenses are still “native” they aren’t OEM lenses.
I don’t see why anyone would ADAPT a Leica lens to an A7. That’s just stupid.
I have a 50 Summilux, Summicron, Summar, and Summitar. I also have a 50 Zeiss Planar and the Voigt 50 Nokton. I like them all for different reasons.
I also have a 35 Summicron and the 35 Nokton f/1.2.
They all work extremely well with the M because they were designed for the M. That’s not the case when adapters come into play.
Yes maybe my comparison wasn’t really well thought out… but I do see it happening so much, A7 shooters using all kinds of lenses that don’t ‘belong’ on the camera…
This is what I don’t understand haha.
That’s because they think they can get the Leica goodness without dropping the cash. But they can’t. I’ve tried Leica lenses on some A7’s and on some Fuji cameras as well and none of them give that same look that the Leica sensor can give.
Maybe they need more resolution, IBIS, better ISO. Maybe they think that the value of the leica system comes from lenses and not from bodies. Who cares. I have an A7 and wouldn’t mind to put some M glass on it if it delivers and there’s no native lens
If the value of Leica is in the lenses and the lenses don’t work well with your brand of camera then the lenses have no value to your work.
Yeah, thats why I enjoy Leica’s plus I’ve tried a A7 but I don’t like all the buttons… I love the 4 buttons I get with my S that I understand and do what I want.
I find these R8 R9 ugly to say the truth !
Kind of “bio design” (also the time when you had these huge microsfot keyboard and mouses)
On the other hand the R3 has the right level of “minimalist but not too much”.
R8/9 are the minimalist ones, R3 is plain old school, just not “ancient school”, like Contarex, so to speak.
To me R8/9 “smells like” bio design (nineties) whereas R3 looks more modern (in the sense modern art) even if old school, R3 looks a bit “art deco” or Frank Loyd Wright in a way
I think it’s too far fetched to call the 2 recent Rs bio, they’re more refined than anything bio I can recall. Yeah the R3 looks sort of…soviet.
A bit too far fetched maybe yes, but still .. and I agree the R3 as a “soviet” side 🙂
A modern take on the R7 would have been beautiful. But this is a blatant rip-off of the sony A7 body, which isn’t the best looking design already. But this thing is uuuuugly!
There are existing Leicas with already the same type of design, wouldn’t really call that a sony rip off..
which camera?
Below one for instance (T serie) :
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/t-series-cameras/ci/24714/N/3933929666
Would prefer a R8, maybe slightly smaller.
Or an R8 but slightly bigger: Leica S
hahaha 🙂
Ok, Leica S but slightly cheaper. I don’t mind a smaller sensor. Ups, that’s the R8 again 😀
Speaking of the price, I won’t be surprised to see that the camera will be much cheaper than the rumored price.
The R3 had no grip.
24 MP? Is that the Sony sensor used in D600/A7/A7-II/A99/RX1/…?
Leica Q
Leica uses CMOSIS for their sensors, not Sony,
Ok, thx.
If I remember correctly, the Q sensor is not from CMOSIS, it’s from an Israeli semiconductor company with a Panasonic JV for the foundry.
It wasn’t for sure that the SL used the Q sensor at that time. It still isn’t 100%. Leica never said if the sensors are the same never said that the Q sensor is from an Israeli company either. It’s all conjecture.
One thing is for sure, of all of the sensors they use CMOSIS is the largest provider for their best selling cameras.
That’s still conjecture on your part. Hence you can’t state for sure that it is from CMOSIS unless you have proof.
That’s my point, it’s all conjecture.
The 50/1.5 is so big…. hmmmm Folks, I bet they designed a lens which resolves 150 Mpix and bundle it with a 24 Mpix camera.
If it had an m mount. That would make it interesting.
hello! hello! the M to T adapter is available since 2014!
This is kind of a preview to what the A7 system will probably turn in to.
This Leica seems much bigger with beefier handgrip and probably much better battery life(i prefer the more curved canon grip with the Sony dials style), the 4 million points EVF would be great if it is OLED, probably not, we don’t know the magnification either, hope to be 0.78x or bigger. The lenses are to me a very good start if their f-stops = t-stops. Has touch screen that leica is dealing well with.
Seems to lack dials (bad). No phase AF, maybe not wide coverage of AF like A7R2.
The price is ridiculous i don’t know if sony will lose market in the very rich market, probably will coexist with it. A little late launch from Leica in my opnion.
>No phase AF
It’s very likely Panasonic provided DFD AF tech to Leica
Yeah, but is not at the same level yet.
contrast detection on a grid of 49 points
very very close DFD focus points
It seems to be the same 49-zone contrast detection autofocus as Leica Q.
Giant as it is ugly.
And the lenses look like cheap Panasonic rebrands instead of proper Leica, like M lenses. This certainly isn’t going to sell from price or aesthetics, probably not from build either.
Actually, they look like S lenses.
I don’t get how they could claim the size is similar to the M…or is the M actually much bigger than I thought?!
Yes.
lol.
I bet many people are ready to judge the handling of a camera by solely looking at a picture.
The M (240 and following) are not that small. You won’t fit it in a pocket for sure.
The first time you hold one you are surprised by its weight and solid feeling.
Game : do you bet on a fixed, tilting, or fully articulated screen ?
I bet on tilting.
it mentions fixed in article…
Leica have not moved that far into the future!
Ah yes, didn’t see that, really strange that Sonys do not have touch screens yet btw …
I can’t imagine how they didn’t fit a tilt screen into that giant body.
I agree it’s ugly as hell. But we can be sure they got one thing correct: the T-mount was designed to be able to fit FF from day 0.
Classic slr design meets Bauhaus. I like it, at least it’s not simply vintage and does not look like a toy.
I bet the weight is also important (as on Q model, it looks small but has a solid feeling and weight).
Before saying that it lacks of manual controls I’d like to see how the buttons and touch screen can be used to control the camera. I see a display on top, nice to have it. The only thing I don’t like it’s its price..
That looks awful. I was hoping for something more R like.
This looks like Panasonic wanted to make an A7 competitor under Leica brand so that it has more chance to compete at these insane prices.
The 24-90 has some great coverage, but should have been constant 2.8 for that huge size. Keep in mind that this mount is larger diameter than E-mount so you can imagine the scale how large that is.
i think so,hope panasonic made SL cheap model.
Sorry but your 24-70 2.8 will never be 2.8 at the 70mm, at least on the T-stop. So no worries about that.
Actually, which is my 24-70/2.8?
Have you
stolengotten it by any chance, because I can’t find it?I though you were complaining with some context…
My bad.
Nobody’s 24-70/2.8 is 2.8 at 70 mm.
They make something like f/2.95 and market it as f/2.8
Usualy the 2.8 lenses are not even 2.8 from the start, 2.8 zooms are even worse, some go 3.2 or more at the tele end.
If I could dream up the ultimate FF mirrorless system, I’d take these new Leica lenses on a Sony A7r2.
Its a shame they didn’t join Sony and adopt the E-mount.
Would have been beneficial for both companies and even more for customers.
It would only be beneficial for the consumers not the companies. Also Leica isn’t like Zeiss, making lenses for all sorts of brands. Won’t happen 😉
It’s potentially possible. Leica doesn’t make lenses for others, but if these lenses are Panasonic rebrands like the previous T lenses, then it could work. Panasonic may not agree though.
I thought the T lenses, and that of the Q, were designed by Konica Minolta? They still have a lens design team after the sale of the camera unit to Sony. Optics design by Konica Minolta, AF mechanism from Panasonic.
You may be right, I don’t know, but I’m pretty sure it’s not Leica Germany making the lenses.
Now I wonder if Leica T mount to Sony E mount adapter is possible. Someone technical enough to explain?
E-mount flange distance is 18mm.
If the SL-mount flange distance is shorter, for example 15mm, there is room to make an adapter and put E-mount lenses on SL-mount bodies.
If SL has longer flange distance, like 21mm or something, then E-mount camera owners will be happy and be able to attach these Leica lenses with an adapter.
I wonder why no one didn’t make adapter from samsung nx to e mount for crop cameras
Easy: not large market enough.
It’s a T-mount, not “SL-mount”, you didn’t read the article? That said I don’t know what the flange range of the T-mount is, but I have a faint impression that it’s within a milimeter of E-mount’s.
I think it is a testament as how little interest the Leica T has generated that one cannot find any information about the flange distance of the the T-mount. I have seen one estimate of 20 to 22 mm but that’s all I can find. But this information must be public, one only would have to measure an adaptor from another mount to the T-mount. And the adaptor manufacturers likely have an official number.
What we know is that the Leica T has a thickness of 33 mm. Judging from photos, the front grip only sticks out all so slightly, resulting in an estimated mount the camera back distance of 32 mm. On my two digital cameras with a sensor plane position indicator the distance between the sensor plane and the camera back (in the form of the display) is 19 and 20 mm (D800, E-M5). Note the former is a DSLR and the latter has a tilting screen. Comparing the mount to back display distance of the E-M5 with that of my GF1, the sensor plane to back distance of that camera is only 17 mm.
The Leica T doesn’t have a tilting screen, is a mirrorless camera with a crop sensor and thus my guess is that the GF1 sensor plane to camera back distance is the best approximation. Given that the Leica T is a couple of years younger than the GF1, its sensor plane to camera back distance might be even a millimetre or two smaller. My best guess for the T-mount flange distance is thus 15 to 17 mm.
E-mount flange distance is 18mm. Leica T mount flange distance is 16mm, so an adapter to use Leica T lenses with an E mount body would have to have a ‘negative thickness’ of -2mm.
No, same flange focal distance + E mount is narrower => no chance.
There is probably another reason. E-mount has 2 mm filter stack, and T-mount has very thin stack.
You’d put over priced variable aperture zooms on a Sony when perfectly acceptable Zeiss and Sony G lenses with fixed apertures exist? You might wanna re-think that. Leica has never wow’d anyone with a zoom and I doubt they’re going to start now.
RE: zooms vs. primes… I’ve had this conversation many times before. For my work, I don’t have the luxury of switching between half a dozen primes, I need one-or-two workhorse zooms. As for quality of zooms, Zeiss and Sony don’t know how to make good zooms for E or FE either (and Zeiss is also overpriced), so let’s see what Leica comes up with.
I really liked the 28-90 Leica R lens and the 80-200 F4 Leica R. Now on the S I’ve tried the 30-90 lens and I like it too… don’t know whats wrong with Leica zoom lenses, apart from the fact that they don’t make that many. 🙂 Although I stay with primes on my S because I just can’t afford 10 K for a zoom lens.
Most of the R zooms were Minolta lens designs now owned by Sony.
Not the ones I mentioned, only the older Leica R zooms actually were Minolta designs. Most later ones were designed by Leica and manufactured in Japan at Kyocera, and most APO zoom’s were actually designed and manufactured in Germany by Leica themselves.
The older 35-70 F3,5 was minolta
The later 35-70 F4 Macro ASPH. design was a Leica design manufactured in Japan
Only about half, I’d say.
I think Leica’s APO zooms wow’d many, but damn are they expensive…And they may not get any cheaper in a decade or two.
Leica…are you reading these comments? Haven’t even released yet and it’s a dud.
It’s only a dud to the Leica-hating camera nerds that visit sites like these. By your reasoning the Monochrom was a dud too. Yet they keep selling…
I don’t think that. I have a soft spot for that m240.
Why do you think it’s a dud? Because a dozen people on a camera forum that caters to Fuji and Sony nerds hate it simply because it’s a Leica?
Nobody even knows what the new sensor is capable of. Reportedly it’s going to trounce everything in it’s class for low-light.
>everything in it’s class
I guess this meant that it has better high ISO than M9 and M240 🙂
Not 2014-2015 Sony sensors.
Um, it’s class is the Sony A7 and Fuji X-T1. The M is in it’s own class because it’s the only digital rangefinder available. And if Nikon can make Sony sensors give better images than Sony can, then certainly Leica, who has been hard at work with R&D can do something better with a new CMOSIS sensor designed specifically for this camera.
A7? At least make it a slightly more fair with a comparison with the closest price? How about A7RII? And comparing this huge expensive FF with half frame is just pathetic.
I’m talking about the A7 “series”. And what’s pathetic is that you can’t see that the APS-C Fuji has more similarities than it does differences.
And “half-frame”? You spend too much time in Rockwell land. He’s the only knucklehead that uses that term. Except for you apparently.
Then you should practice proper English by stating in advance you were talking about the A7 “series”, because you just put the term “A7” side by side with X-T1 which could only be a model, which strongly suggests that you referred to A7 as a model name, since it apparently is one.
It’s pathetic how you’re blinded by the so called “similarities” that you’ve deviated from the discussion. You said yourself: “Nobody even knows what the new sensor is capable of. Reportedly it’s going to trounce everything in it’s class for low-light.” First of all this is about sensors, second of all you’re talking about low-light. It matters with nothing except the sensor and processor. No other “similarities”, or differences, for that matter, need be put into the picture.
Maybe you’re the one whose spent so much time in Rockwell land that coming out after a long burrow you notice nobody except Rockwell and I using the term.
Rumours are rumours, in all likelihood this is the same sensor as the Q
Conjecture is just conjecture. There’s a great likelihood that it’s a brand new CMOSIS design.
The mono is unique and was/is praised almost universally with calls for other makes to follow suit. This thing is a Sony A7 with giant lenses for $10 grand. I already have this camera from Sony and it performs just fine. This thing is DOA.
Billshî†. The Mono was derided by all the nerds on the rumours sites. Especially your favourite. Nikon Rumors.
You seem to be implying that I was shitting on the mono even after I just praised it. This is the kind of cognitive disconnect that must allow you to think that the SL is anything but a shit-sandwich. Godspeed, idiot.
Funny considering the owner of that site also runs LeicaRumors.com
Yeah, I know. And all of his Nikon Rumours followers go there to troll Leica. That’s why he had to have his friend review the Q and couldn’t break the friend’s NDA. Hence, no news from Leica Rumours.
Sales wise, it might not be a dud. But not everyone thinking ‘wth?’ hates Leica. In fact wanting Leica to survive and produce what Leica lovers want might be our issue!
The monochrome is a different story though, yeah it’s an extremely niche product with a ridiculous price tag catered to Leica purist, but it actually offered things that no other camera was offering at the time with an excellent lens selection.
It’s not a different story. All these nerds called the Mono crap and said it was a stupid idea. And time has proved them wrong.
As a matter of fact, they did the same with the Nikon Df. Called it a piece of crap and said that prices would drop to 1/2 in 2 months. 2 years later the price is steady and Nikon is still moving product.
Yes, compared to the Monochrom, the DF is a piece of crap. Overall it’s not a bad camera.
How can you compare the two? That’s just stupid. The Df is a great camera. So is the Mono. But they aren’t in the same arena knucklehead.
The Nikon DF is certainly ugly. It’s got to be at the top of the list of pug fug ugly. It’s like Elvis in the later stages of his life. It’s like someone fed a DSLR cheeseburgers for a few decades and it took on a serious drinking habit. You see where this is going right?
What does ugly have to do with it? It performs well. I use a camera to make money not to look at lovingly. The Df does everything I need it to and it fits well in my hand. And personally, I think it looks good.
As far as the references to being a “fat” DSLR, well, it’s smaller than the D8XX, D6XX, D7XX, and D7XXX series cameras. So yeah. Your point isn’t just moot it’s idiotic.
Hell, even the digital M’s are fatter than the the film M’s. There’s electronics to squeeze in there genius.
Yes I can. Thanks again for the kind words.
I can compare apples to cantaloupes. That doesn’t mean the comparison makes sense.
It is different though simply because it offered things that no other camera maker had or even tried to imitate, besides the fact that it is actually a damn good camera. The most probable reason why people hated on it is most likely due to the fact that they couldn’t afford it. Had another camera maker offered something that had similar B&W performance for a third of the price, I’m not sure the monochrome would be doing as well.
That being said, with the information we have so far, it’s hard to see how this camera will perform that much better than similar cameras currently available now, especially when it is about double the price to its direct competitor.
Anyway we still have to wait for reviews and sample images, but I don’t see how someone being skeptical about this camera warrants the name calling.
Also I didn’t realize the DF was doing so well, I actually forgot it existed.
You’re reading WAY too much into what I wrote. I wasn’t talking camera specs. I was talking about how about 90% of the time camera forum nerds are WRONG when they pronounce something a “dud”.
Name-calling? Do you deny that anyone that hangs out on camera forums is a camera nerd? I’m a camera nerd. So what? If it hurts your feelings it’s because it’s true.
And yeah, the Df is doing well. I haven’t forgot it existed because I use them a lot, especially since my M is in the shop.
My mistake then, didn’t realize I was being trolled.
You weren’t.
I’m a Leica lover. If the above picture is not fake, this camera is a dud.
The Monochrome is the complete opposite. I never had thought the Leica has the balls to bring out something like this. The Monochrome is on of the very few cameras in history that is truly admirable.
Looking at this new camera, all I can do is to bury may face in my hands. Looking at a Monochrom I make a deep bow.
Don’t judge about people you don’t know.
This camera will be a dud to YOU. But many other people will buy it. Just because a few people like you call “dud” doesn’t mean crap.
Yeah, this thing doesn’t look like a Leica. It looks like and A7 or an X-T1. THAT is where Leica is marketing this. Not to M owners. I wouldn’t buy this camera, but I wouldn’t buy an A7 or X-T1 either.
Don’t comment if you haven’t even bothered to think things through.
If Leica has to follow Sony’s design language then they have truly jumped the shark.
Did Fuji “jump the shark” when they ripped off Sony for the X-T1?
X-T1 does not look like any Sony. In fact it’s much too ugly to look like one. A7 was ugly, but X-T1 is something else
No, they don’t look anything alike…
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/8b11d161c94bd12dd0a68052ac278ec633fca209ef2caa81fbce506fe8aa5610.jpg
The shape of the grip. The shape of the viewfinder. The absurd amount of dials. No they look nothing alike. From 50 meters away you may mistake one for another, or if you’re heavily, horribly myopic to the point of near-blindness, because they’re similar, only if you reduce them to faint shadows.
OK, I get it. You’re a Sony fanboi. Carry on…
I just said “A7 was ugly, but X-T1 is something else”.
Do you read?
The pretext was that the A7 was ugly.
I’m gonna guess that English isn’t your first language. Learn to use colloquialisms correct before commenting.
Yes, first learn to write correct.
Exactly 🙂
You’re dumber than a bag of rocks. Of course you’d think that was clever.
The correct phrasing would be:
“Yes, you should first learn to write correctly.”
In trying to appear intelligent you actually made yourself look like a moron.
The Free Dictionary gives 3 interpretations of “something else”:
1.A person, thing, or event that is quite remarkable, as in That pitcher is something else, or Her new film is something else. The else in this idiom means “other than ordinary.”
2.One that is very special or quite remarkable
3.unusual
The third of which especially, comes from Cambridge Dictionary of American Idioms, so I say my usage is appropriate enough.
Also, why make a grammar mistake in a reply criticising my language? What irony is this?
Oh lord, here we go. Being that that you first said the A7 is ugly the following prepositional phrase “something else” implies that the X-T1 is even uglier than the A7.
Dictionary definitions aren’t grammar.
When a grammar mistake is made on purpose, that is not irony. That is sarcasm.
This concludes our lesson in American English for today.
Wow, you really are this stupid. Yes you finally got it right. And I thought you only overlooked that sentence but truth was you never comprehended it until now. Yes the X-T1 is even uglier than the A7, that’s exactly what I meant. And the reason I cited that sentence was that, obviously Sony’s fanboy should regard the A7 as good-looking instead of ugly, thus your accusation was groundless. And to think you would believe otherwise…
Yeah except it’s not on purpose because sarcasm there doesn’t make any sense, you made a fool of yourself and your vain attempt to cover it up is just hideous.
And yet another mistake in a place where no sarcasm makes sense.
to each his own, I love the X-T1’s look
“Don’t comment if you haven’t even bothered to think things through.” Are you always so arrogant? With your especial thinking have you actually thought through your comment about Leica targeting Sony buyers? Why would anyone aiming at an A7R or S want to treble their spend to buy this!
If your comment made any sense at all I’d retort. But it doesn’t…
Except, of course, it did… and you did. You should spend some time away from the keyboard.
No it didn’t make sense. I suspect there’s some missing punctuation that’s making it unclear. “With your especial thinking…” Huh?
“…want to treble their spend…” WTF does that even mean???
You should spend some time in a classroom, pal.
OT, so I’m ignoring you from now. However, your remark is ironic, given that you do not understand English – especial (better as ‘especial) is a dialect short-form of especially) and the spend part is very clear. Most of your remarks here are arrogant, more suited to a YouTube comments section; this no less so. Clearly, you are a ‘LCD’ best to be ignored. Work that one out for yourself. Oh, and I spent a working life in and inspecting classrooms, so I’m out of that too. Bye…
I don’t know what Leica is smoking, but for those prices, the maximum apertures are ludicrous. This will not sell well.
the Otii are only f/1.4 and there are few complains.
What if 50/1.5 is even sharper than the 55 Otus?
I guess he talks about the zooms…
and forgets that Leica only aims at bokehphiles with the 50mm 0.95 etc. Most modern lenses are slower than older designs… We don’t need fast lenses if ISO is better.
I’ve been saying that for years. I shoot low-light events with a Sigma 24-104 f/4 or a Nikon 16-35 f/4 and have no problems with the D4 or Df. More depth of field is fine for things like that if you can shoot at ISO 6400 with no noise.
For specialized “bokeh” photography use a fast prime. Zooms are working lenses. The need for constant f/2.8 zoom lenses is nearly gone.
Interesting !!! Many references are being made to the Sony. Here’s a basic question for you all:
One has to ask oneself about the currently employed business model of Leica: “Leica SL, the new concept Full Frame”
Full frame, great ! But then again, it doesn’t appear to me as if this is so innovating these days. The good news is that Leica seems to validate the Leica
T model (aka Mini SL?) with the shift of the SL line to the T-based
lenses. Is that the idea of a “new concept”? Don’t get me wrong. That
might be a good thing. I kind ‘a like my T lenses. However, the decision
to go with a 24MP sensor is very deceiving. Given the current
high-MP-availability environment, there is just no apparent rational for
this unfortunate decision, and certainly contradicts the notion of a
“new concept”.
In addition, Leica might have failed to understand that without a true sizable line of at
least 3 prime lenses (24mm, 35mm and maybe a 75mm) and several aperture
variations thereof, the new line might have already failed it’s proper
initiation. I don’t believe that their offering two zoom lenses changes
anything to that effect. After all, there is some stiff competition of
some very good, complete-system cameras out there to contend with.
Bottom line is that most Leica fans will most likely bite the bullet, and bridge the gap and mount their favorite, proven M (or other) lenses via adapter, hence
downgrading a full AUTO camera to a manual. That’s not how I envision
making good use of a brand new, “new concept Full Frame”, do-it-all camera, especially after having spent €6,900 (=$7,830).
If I was in the market for a good system, I’d get myself a (any) 36+MP camera with an adapter, put my favorite Leica lens on the body, shoot, and have fun. Hey, it’s not a Leica, but a Leica lens, and the results will be stellar -if you believe in glass being
the prime factor of a decent picture, and if you don’t mind having to
focus manually.
My $.02.
I guess these old mans from Lecia who sill work there from 1920′ put one button at back for all customsation 🙂 Pure camera of pure mans.
This is really disappointing.
I think they’ll sell at least 4 or 5. Euro 10K with a zoom! Won’t tempt me from the M or Sony A7Rii. If only they had gone ‘full frame’ with a R10 instead of moving the S. I could weep.
It’s ugly as hell! Ultimately these ‘‘Young Turkish’’ designers will finish up
with Leica…… After seeing this, now I´m really AFRAID of what might come
with the future M (in terms of design……LORD!!!!!)
It looks like an unfinished prototype. And I thought the Hassy Lunar was ugly but Leica designers have won the dgly Uuckling prize. Did you ever think you would see the day? I will play “The day the music died” in honor of Leica “Jumping the shark”.
lol When a7’s sketch came out everybody was shocked. This is practically the same thing, but the a7 had a stronger sense of pieces and parts glued together, and this is uglier in…it’s proportions, probably.
they took the most undesired sony a7 feature – the look.
I had to chuckle at this: “Leica definitely did choose a modern and somehow Sony A7 alike design.”
It was Sony who stole from Leica when it comes to design, not the other way around. Secondly, Sony A7R series is very badly designed, not only it looks awful, if you have big hands like me it feels like a toy. I was very disappointed when I held it. This Leica looks much more ergonomic, but the price is just a turnoff.
Sony camaeras are inspired by Minolta, they have nothing to do with Leica and their design.
regards
I was worried this new camera would make me regret buying a Q; I’m all good now.
That’s not all they’re about to unveil. Interchangeable lens Q will be announced too.
Really! Now that has my wallet worried.
Where?
49 contrast detect points. LOL!
no face detection, eye detection and touchscreen i think… lol
There is modern trend that started by sony. Each new camera must looks uglier than previous… Except olympus? panasonic and fuji, their cameras looks much better, not like sony axe cut design
I think within the recent lineup the original a7 is safely the ugliest. Generation II tweaks it a little so that it’s not so ugly. The change in design near the shutter and the grip especially helped, and the finish too, I couldn’t imagine any finish looking and feeling cheaper than the original, on metal of course. It looked and felt a lot like…what do you call that hard smooth shiny paint used on many walls of public buildings…
Full info/pictures here:
http://us.leica-camera.com/Photography/Leica-SL
Access denied.
Wrong URL – fixed!
It’s not much more than what we’ve already got, BTW the dummy without the widely spaced L E I C A on the viewfinder and the red logo looks much better to me.
There’s more background in some of the linked posts from as early as May of this year… None of them look great. :p
Where is the Leica? Panasonic tech and bad styling. This is really a Panasonic camera rebadge with Leica lenses on an orphan mount. What’s not to love in this Frankenstein camera? Is this a Haloween joke?
THIS IS A LEICA CAMERA NOT A PANASONIC REBADGE.
Panasonic helped with the implementation of some of the focusing system electronics. But it is a LEICA design. Not a Panasonic.
How do you know that? Are you working at Panasonic or Leica? I would also doubt it is a Pannasonic. All I can see for now is, that it’s a design fail.
Since the camera isn’t announced yet, maybe you can share some more details with us. 🙂
Because Leica released statements about the camera last week moron. Do your research.
It’s a design fail? Probably. But I think the A7 series and the X-T series are design fails too. Ain’t stopping them from selling.
I’m not a moron and I’m not a researcher. I’m here in my free time just for fun. So I take the liberty to come not properly informed. For that reason I ask questions.
It was surprising for me that someone know such details about an unreleased camera. That’s why i asked.
Thank you for that kind conversation.
Well, reality is E-mount fits too and you don’t have blockage even with SLR lenses.
It will be interesting to see if Panasonic jumps on this for a full frame system using the same mount. It makes sense they would. In the same way that both Canon and Nikon have APS-C and Full Frame cameras, Panasonic would have m43 cameras and full frame cameras but using a different mount so as not to confuse people with which lenses work on which cameras.
Apparently, cute counts for a lot with “photographers”.
Cute or not may be a problem but ugly really gets in the way. If it spoils your mood why get a luxury item?
In the immortal words of Jimmy Soul:
If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life
Never make a pretty woman your wife
So for my personal point of view
Get an ugly girl to marry you
Don’t let your friends say you have no taste
Go ahead and marry anyway
Though her face is ugly, her eyes don’t match
Take it from me, she’s a better catch
This isn’t cute, it’s sterile.
Beauty is contextual and is different for different people. Someone may not like a particular device because it seems ugly yet after using it they realize they like using it and it makes them happy. Thus it becomes an object the provokes positive responses when one sees it. Thus it is beautiful.
This camera is neither one thing or the other to me. If I use it and love it, I will find it beautiful, if not I won’t.
Example: In high school a friend had a BMW 2002. I thought it looked ugly but when I drove it I loved it and it became beautiful. Later my Uncle bought a 3201 that I though was beautiful. I drove it and while it was OK to drive it was profoundly unreliable thus I found it, if not ugly, unpleasant to look at. I still do not care for BMW to this day because of the experience I had.
Do you know if there will be adapter to use with S system lens?
Well, for sure you can use a T to M adapter and couple it with an M to S adapter. Will it work? Probably not.
I never made that implication. That was in YOUR head. You have a screw loose, or cognitive disconnect since you feel like you need to sound smart.
In any case, I don’t think the SL will be a “shit-sandwich”. I don’t like the design, I’ll never buy one, but it will not be DOA.
See ya in the funny pages loser.
Really don’t understand how the design team couldn’t have put two and two together to see how closely this matches the Sony A7. Leica make so many beautiful, classic, original looking designs, like the Q, but they announce a camera that looks extremely similar to one of the most talked about cameras on the market today. A very odd choice for such an expensive camera.
The funniest part about this new camera? I’m sure many Leica enthusiasts will fork out $10k+ for this new gear, yet at some point someone will see them out and ask them if they like using their new Sony A7.
D810 isn’t to bad looking. D750 has on ok face…MILF face but still. It does matter as you don’t want your clients wincing every time you go to take a pic.
My clients love the way the Df looks. My clients aren’t photographer nerds. They like the idea of a camera that looks old, but is digital. I’ve gotten jobs because people have asked about my camera while photographing an event.
Nobody ever gave a crap about any of my black lump cameras (some of which I still use). Basically you’re being obtuse because a camera somehow offends your particular esthetic values. Dumb.
I’m pretty sure if the photographic demi-gods themselves descended upon the earth they would disapprove of the vile DF. If it works for you then great. Personally, I’d have to wrap a bag around it just so I didn’t have to look at it.
Jesus. Did a Nikon Df rape your mother? It’s just a camera and yet you feel the need to troll on and on about how horrible it is. What a sad life you must lead. Sitting in your basement hating CAMERAS. Go take some pictures or something. Maybe with your beautiful pink Pentax or whatever pretty camera you have.
Thanks, I was just trying to figure out if these lenses can be adapted to E-mount, or E-mount ones to this Leica mount, but it seems like the latter is more likely.
especially as this Leica mount is a bit wider than E-mount as well.
It needs a knuckle strap similar to the DMR’s – provision for same would enable comfortable and secure carrying for several hours with the zoom attached.
Actually adapters with ‘negative thickness’ exist: C-mount to NEX, C-mount to m43.