Dpreview posted an interview with Masaya Maeda Managing Director at Canon. And he just said two interesting things about the EOS-M system
1) The Canon EOS-M didn’t sell as expected, but has good market shares in Japan and South-East Asia
2) Nevertheless there will be new lenses for the EOS-M system within 2013.
And one more prediction comes from MR-Maeda: There will be “an increase in the number of full-frame models”. Sure about it Mr. Maeda??? Micro Four Thirds shows us how successful the exact other direction is.
62 Responses
that camera is such trash
So, let me get this straight: everyone has been bitching at Nikon for not putting an APS-C sensor in their mirrorless system… and yet Nikon 1 is the top selling mirrorless camera in Japan, and the Canon APS-C is a failure…
Humm the Internet was wrong the Nikon marketers were right…
I think there is only one reason why Nikon 1 was selling so well – great deals on J1 and V1 by the end of last year. I would bet that majority of V1 was sold for reduced price, because the price at launch was ridiculous (as is V2 price now).
Good marketing, good performance, and good reviews helped Nikon.
Canon missed the mark this time. I hope they keep trying to get it right. I’m an old Canon user that moved on because they weren’t making the camera I wanted.
Look the nikon 1 series has a few problems but at the end of the day it has great autofocus performance, compact size and both a wide and a long tele. Now for me m43 is a better compromise than the nikon 1 inch sensor is but at least nikon 1’s can go toe to toe with m43 in performance terms. The eos m? that gets trashed by just about every other mirrorless camera out there in the performance terms
It may sound easy to say after the fact but I always thought that the Nikon 1 would be a hit. Fanboy/’enthusiast’ types are a minority. Moreover this Canon sits very boringly in the middle of the pack with very little in the way of a unique selling proposition. In fact I had forgotten about it.
Nikon is a DSLR company with a healthy side business of selling compact and now ‘mirrorless’ cameras.
Canon is trying to be many things, over-reaching in the video market after the success of the 5D family and here trying to keep its enthusiast cred while selling to a mass market that couldn’t care less what an APS-C sensor is.
Nikon (and Fuji, and Olympus and Sony) win this round
You can never tust what the m43 fansters on this site say. If you believe them, then canikon will be bankrupt soon and the whole of the world is using mirrorless. I come here to read their comments for laughs, i get a real kick out of reading what new delusions the m43 crowd sell themselves everyday.
your canon bashing is trash. And most pros, semi pros, intermediats and noobs have already agreed with their purchases.
Somebody should tell him the truth. In a world where the fast shoot and auto focus is the main point, nobody will buy sluggish cameras. Canon is stuck producing great cameras with unbelieveble slow operation.
The title sounds too good to be true…wait, it IS TRUE!
Shockingly surprising!
Next, I want to hear the confession from Sony on the Rx1 and from Habbelsad on the sony knockoff. 😉
If the productmanagers are wondering about sales not as expected:
– The camera is too expensive (same specs like 650D for 200 more???)
– The lenses are too big (like Sony NEX: iphone size camera with HUGE lenses…)
– No range of interesting lenses (wideangle, speed, tele…)
– First body for which group of interest? Not for Pros, not for Upgraders from Compactcameras, not for People who wants small but complete equipment
About myself: I´m using Canon since 1986 now, starting with T90, EOS 10, EOS 5, EOS 3, 20D, 40D and 5DII. I have more then 10 lenses in my bag.
But after Photokina I decided to buy a Pana GH3 with several lenses and I´m very satisfied with the results. The camera is not small, but 3-5 lenses have the size and weight like one 2.8/70-200 for FF…
In my eyes this is the future: Cameras in different sizes, from compact size to SLR size, but small, lightweight AND good lenses…
And now, with the metabones adapter, you can buy a Sonyx Nex, keep all you FF lenses and use it like always.
If I remember correctly, two years ago Canon stated that it didn’t need a mirrorless system. Now they acknowledge the challenge of filling the EOS-M lens lineup quickly enough. I wouldn’t listen to them too much. They have no clue and those “interviews” only give them the opportunity to exercise their PR skills. Canon is perhaps the least innovative of all camera manufacturers and clearly lost its leading role years ago. Why would you think they can predict market trends better than, say, Sony?
+100
What a surprise! How came they didn’t sell such sexy and innovative camera? People must have been going mad!
“And one more prediction comes from MR-Maeda: There will be “an increase in the number of full-frame models”. Sure about it Mr. Maeda??? Micro Four Thirds shows us how successful the exact other direction is”
Think again. MFT is popular at the moment, because it has most extensive lens catalog. Othes will catch them. If first models of FF- and APSC-mirrorless were released at the same time with first MFT-cameras, MFT would never gain the kind of popularity is has now.
For example Sony has made the smart move when designing their E-mount, because it’s FF-compatible. In theory Sony could well release their own MFT-image-circle lenses or even smaller for E-mount, if they wanted. Or they could release FF-lenses, which is going to happen next-year. MFT will lose their popularity in the long run, because it’s much more limited with their small mount.
It will be a battle between MFT and Nikon 1. The small sensors are catching up on IQ and at one point there will be no use for larger sensors. The size of APS-C and FF telezoom lenses is ridiculous, no matter how small the bodies. Their existence is a relic of the past.
As long as narrow DoF – sorry, erm, LOTS OF BOKEH!1!!!! – remains a huge draw for people, APS-C and FF cameras will be alive and well. And while smaller sensors are indeed improving, so are the bigger ones. A new FF sensor will likely always beat a new m4/3 sensor in terms of DR and SN, and people who don’t mind a bigger camera will still aspire to own a D900, 5D4, A999 etc. Mirrorless will certainly take more and more of the market share, but it’s not like 10 years from now we’re going to have nothing but m4/3 and 1″ sensors.
One place I agree with you is on the tele end, though. Once a smaller-sensor camera (with, say, 1 stop better high ISO performance than the OMD) comes around that can AF as fast and track as well as a good SLR, there will be a lot less point in carrying around that big body and huge zoom.
“As long as narrow DoF – sorry, erm, LOTS OF BOKEH!1!!!! – remains a huge draw for people, APS-C and FF cameras will be alive and well.”
IMVHO there’s not a massive difference in DoF between MFT and APS-C and of course you can get that lovely shallow DoF look if that’s what you want by using wide aperture lenses and longer focal length lenses if you’re willing to change your camera to subject distance/FoV. I can get lovely shallow DoF from MFT using 25mm f0.95, 55mm f1.7 and even 135mm f3.5.
Shallow DoF is a dual edged sword though. When you’re struggling to keep your ISO down and your shutter speed up you may be pushed towards shooting with wider apertures than you’d like and in some situations you could end up, for example, with a portrait shot with one eye in focus and the other out. That’s fine if that’s the look you wanted but if you want both eye’s in focus a smaller sensor and a shorter focal length could be a help. For example FF+50mm lens at f1.4 v MFT+25mm lens at f1.4. For the same FoV and exposure the MFT will give you a bit more DoF and you may get both eyes in the DoF.
yada yada yada, propaganda im a m43 fanboyanda. Try to be more original and while youre at it, stop BS’ing.
This doesn’t surprise me as it’s a totally uninspiring camera system with no real innovation. The NEX cameras are growing strength to strength, but they have genuinely useful innovative features, great sensors and we are now looking forwards to FF models. Yes, FF will always have a place, because you can get better subject isolation and nicer rendition at wider angles, etc. I have no problem at all with my NEX-6 in terms of sensor quality, and I love the size, but the one thing it can’t replace my 5Dmkii for at the moment is just the DOF and sheer ISO performance (a 35mm 1.8 will never be a 50mm 1.4, for example). I wish people would understand this aspect of how an image LOOKS, which is solely a function of frame size vs. focal length.
yeah right totally not expectable that shitty camera for high price didn’t sell well. lol
The first EOS-M body was apparently ‘made for women’.
I’ve got to ask though… do (many) women buy interchangeable lens cameras??
My guess is the majority of the market for these cameras are men, and the smaller demographic of women who *do* buy ILC’s want a more serious camera as well.
Canon’s biggest error is in waiting too long to launch a more serious/robust ILC camera and lenses. They simply don’t understand the ILC market.
I think there’s a growing market for women wanting ILCs – but I suspect they’re more likely to go for something smaller and lighter – i.e. MFT or Nikon 1.
I’ve seen a few women with ILCs – most have been N1 or MFT, plus a few NEXs – but not a single EOS-M.
The other problem with the EOS-M is that the lack of native lenses mean that it’s main appeal is as a second body for people who already have a Canon DSLR and selection of lenses – which isn’t the demographic they claim they’re aiming for.
Canon has been digging themselves for some time now, playing safe, but their boat will end up sinking for lack of guts and real innovation
diigng themsleves” ship end up sinking” If i was some noob and ididnt know better, i swear youre saying that canon is about to go under. But that my friend, is hardly the truth. Your wishful thinking and your zealous love for all things m43 or non canikon is really polluting your mind. And if you read your won comments you would agree, the fact is canikon is still the big 2, and if you want to help your cause, you best start is to stop belieiving in your wishful but fualty biased views.
Canon will be around for plenty of time yet – there’s an awful lot of Canon SLRs out there and I don’t foresee a mass exodus any time soon.
But I wouldn’t be surprised if they really scale back their compact camera offerings and it’s probably only pride/embarassment that will stop them scrapping the EOS-M. I think Nikon got their ILC mostly right (it’s not my cup of tea but I can see where they’re going with it) and Canon got theirs very wrong.
They’ve got a lot of ground to cover if they want to get to where NEX and MFT are already. They’ve got the technical know-how and the resources, but there needs to be a concerted push to do so – and for a company with a healthy SLR market I suspect that ILC is only a distraction for them, unlike Panasonic and Olympus for whom this is their top-end stuff (yes, I know Olympus have 4/3 too, but it looks like they effectively abandoned it years ago).
No WOnder – when you expected nothing :-)))
What a hilarious title! Canon M is at least 2 years too late the game, and they expect it to sell like hotcakes?? I would even argue the future is about small & high-quality. Small as represented by u4/3 (not by Sony NEX or EOS M); high quality as represented by FF DSLR and/or mirrorless. I’m a happy user of both. I see *zero reason* to switch from u4/3 to Canon APS-C mirrorless. If I want better quality, I just pick up my FF DSLR. Heck, even Thom Hogan does the same.
I always thought µ43 Users are a little bitchy, but those two EOS-M defenders (denim and JayBlues) are even worse 😀
Maeda San director of canon imaging admits:Yes- the canon 5D was our last meaningfull innovation, since than our creative camera engineers have left to Nikon, Fuji and Sony + Olympus, our Sensor experts went to Sony and Toshiba for just a view yen more, ony the marketing guys and economists remained in their positions.
The sensor engineers had to be replaced by chinese ones, who sincever are copying the sensor designes from 8 years ago again and again and photo cameras are not needed anymore, pseudo video full frame cameras are our future.
I can forsee millions of family fathers taking videos with our new 4K stuff, why buy a car when you can have a Canon Video machine !
The brilliant design of the fantastic M came on when one of our managers washed his hands with a piece of soap, can anything be shaped better?
“yada yada yada, propaganda im a m43 fanboyanda. Try to be more original and while youre at it, stop BS’ing.”
SITE ADMIN – I am the real woof woof and whoever wrote this drivel isn’t me. I assume there’s some sort of security issue? Or is anyone allowed to log in using any name?
This is all rather worrying….
REALLY? Didnt know you patented and got a copyright for the name ” woof Woof” .What’s next, are you going to say only you can use the word “camera”
Why don’t we all file a copyright on names, I call patent on “every single name out there in the world.”
Canon EOS M is a disaster: sloooooow auto-focus, hard to handle, and small dynamic range to name some of the major problems with it. Canon has a long way to go to match Sony or Olympus.
Well, when we talk about cameras and different markets, we should say “outside Japan AND China”.
This changes everything.
Did you notice that Japanese companies (esp. Panasonic, and recently also Nikon and Canon) care less and less about the USA and Europe?
The only one mature system is the micro4/3, fullstop.
Nikon, Canon arrived late, with heavily outdated projects refurbishad and put on the market. They assume they are always right, I do think they are so distant from users and market, they assume they can dictate what we must want and must need. Pentax got trendy and fashion, they made an ARCHITECT design a camera. Last done by Walter Teague for the Bantam Special. Economic, they remove the mirror, make a nonsense body and reuse all the lenses. Sony made more bodies than lenses… crap lenses I have to say. A lot of noise for nothing. They are exeptionally good with old lenses, by the way. RX1 and RX100 do remember us sony is an hydra with many heads, some of those are functioning, some others are not. This is the case decisions were made and were clear, cameras with guts, no compromise, modern thinking of iconic, classic concepts.
Fuji made the effort of putting CONTENTS on the table. Real contents like good bodies, good lenses, innovative sensors, but very old overall concept, and fashion – snob – retro kind of target.
Olympus is all the “CAMERA” you can put in the most balanced, modern, confortable and easy-to-handle packaging. Tha balance is so good, that even the old ones with outdated sensor and slow AF are far more cameras than EOS-M
Patience is the key when it comes to deals.
It wasn’t until recently that I’ve seen reason to move beyond the EPL-1. The OM-D or the EPL5 will be my next purchase unless I jump to the Fuji X100s.
I prefer the VF2 or VF3 over an internal because of the ability to tilt the VF. Let’s see what the EP-5 will offer. A built in tilt able VF would be ideal.
They haven’t sold as many EOS-M as they expected, because they are naive and it is a piece of crap!!!
If they were to bring out something innovative and sexy, like Fuji has, I would have been impressed. If they were to introduce a sexy, retro-styled, mirrorless camera with at least an APS-C sized sensor (I know the EOS-M has that), with an excellent selection of fast prime and zoom lenses, then they would sell very well. Instead, they brought out a point-and-shoot look-a-like that feels like a brick, performs like a piece of crap, and has inferior image quality. If they would just take the mirrorless market (as well as the market below the 5D mkiii) serious, and provide highly competitive cameras, which they haven’t, then they would do very well. If they don’t, they will lose their customer base, like me, as I am not going to buy another Canon camera unless it is better than the competition; and, I don’t think I will be buying another DSLR, as the mirrorless cameras are becoming much better these days, and there will be great options within a year or two that can replace my DSLR.
So, Canon, if you want people to continue buying your products, then stop wasting your time producing crap like the EOS-M! Give the market something new that is competitive, sexy, and with exceptional image quality!
mmh, I think I got lost between your “outside” “inside” Japan. What do you actually mean to say?
Apart that for the Asian market m43 equipment is all but overpriced, with the exception of new high-end models (e.g. EM5). Until few months ago an epl3 could be bought heavily discounted for 300 dollars circa, lens included. This is the price of a decent compact camera, but the IQ output goes well beyond that. This is why so many persons not so interested in photography are actually buying into m43 basic kits. In fact here in Japan you see oly m43 wherever, and China is following the trend. Sure the problem for Olympus is share, as the price is too low to make a profit on units sold. This is why they are pushing high end models à la em5. Still, mirrorless is taking over in Asia, and the prevision is that during 2013 only in China tens and tens of milions of mirrorless kits will be sold. The strategy is to replace the idea of the “big” reflex with the one of a small tool for going everywhere. Why should Canon and Nikon beware? Because people buying into mirrorless kits will not buy reflex kits, no matter how more performant they are. Mirrorless sales will probably never harm semi-pro FF camera sales, but will certainly be a problem for low-end kits (à la Nikon 3200, or similar Canon offering), and in the long run for all apsc compartment.
I think Nikon and Canon better react somehow: either by introducing mirrorless systems fully compatible with their apsc lenses, or by lowering prices and adding more innovation into low-end dslrs, or by strenghtening the lens offering of apsc systems, e.g. introducing more f 2.8 and f 4 zooms designed for apsc.
I wouldn’t call this an interview, rather an inert view. The claim that there’s no space for anything between APS-C and 1/2.33″ sounds like it’s coming frome someone outside of digital camera business.
What did you expect Canon? Giving us a piece of rubbish and watching us swallow it. No way!