The Contax Hybrid Mount Camera with a combination of two bayonets (courtesy of fotocommunity)
_ _ _
WILD RUMORS UDPATE
Yesterday I’ve shared a bunch of rumors that appeared on the Chinese forum dchome. Today it’s already time for an update
A Chinese FR-reader send me another translation and additional information shared by Forum member joofie. (and thanks also to those, who posted their translations and additions in the comments)
1. XF 35 1.4 version 2 focus speed will be faster than XF23 a little, and selling over USD500
2. New pancake lens XF20 or 18 probably will come with NO aperture ring and smaller than current XF18 a little bit
3. Fuji is performing a final evaluation of “Pay for parts upgrade” , as they decided Hi ended user can using their owned fuji machine in a longer period of time. 2014 already slow down their schedule to release new machine.
4. one of the spec of X-pro 2 is 24M pixel.
5. Organic sensor: Panasonic provide the production line and Fuji provide the patent and technology. [ADMIN: joofie says also (google translated) “differing only available time (P recorded in 2015 DEC / 2016 JAN)“. I think he is talking about the availability. I’ve dropped an email to the Chinese reader and asked if that’s correct. I will post an update as soon as I he replies]
6. Fuji already register their new hybrid focus.
7. New machine with no classic outlook had been developed, not target at Pro users.
8. There is a X-M2 developed but it will be replaced by another product. And, it will not coded as M2.
FYI, here is yesterday’s list (check out the whole post here)
1) X-Pro2 will not be launched on first quarter of 2015, but there are 2 SPEC… [FUJIRUMORS: It’s probably correct that the X-PRO2 won’t come in the first quarter. I’m not sure what “but there are 2 SPEC” means. Probably 2 versions (“species”).]
2) XF20 F2.8 (equal = 30MM / pancake) or XF18 F2.8(equal = 27MM / pancake), will be launching soon.
3) XF35 F1.4(II) , better IQ & bokeh & focus speed a bit faster than XF23, price over HK$ 4000 [FUJIRUMORS: there were rumors in 2014 about it. Apparently Fuji tested an APD version of it, but then dismissed it – source Fuji Manager]
4) OCT-DEC will be a big cannon show up (4XX) (*Forum ppl believe is 140 -400mm)
5) DUAL MOUNT PRODUCT may launch in mid of the year [FUJIRUMORS: My comment about this down below]
6) New phase auto focus system (can compete with DSLR), will come out in X-Mount. [FUJIRUMORS: why not? Sony’s bestseller, the A6000, shows the way]
7) High Speed Pro Flash light, synchronize rate improve to pro standard [FUJIRUMORS: New flash coming in spring]
8) Body will back light prevention setting system (2015 mid / year-end)
9) New fix lens camera will launching before March (” X ” 1 – 2 model) [FUJIRUMORS: He could mean the XQ2, since it was shared on the dchome forum before the official announcement of the XQ2]
10) X-M1 successor already develop, just do not know will launch or not
11) Fuji Japan still analyses a program that user by pay some amount of $$ and can upgrade the part (item (5)- (8) ). They hope user can use the model for longer time without refresh model too fast.
12) XF16 1.4 – Hot summer launching
13) google translated: “X-E3 has a row you wait for” [FUJIRUMORS: sounds like Fuji is debating (has a row) regarding the X-E2 successor, which eventually is expected to come in 2016, since, according to joofei… (see Nr.14)
14) X-E3 => 2016
stay tuned,
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156 Responses
#2: XF lenses with no aperture ring are called XC 🙂
The 27mm should really be an XC lens, too. Although I think Fuji might be better off long term not worrying about XC lines.
This lens system, while full of great glass, is an impairment of logical thinking. No lens system released in three years should have more than one user interface.
Between all X lenses, we have 9 interfaces.
I think that some interface changes make sense, others absolutely not. Example:
I don’t understand why a constant zoom lens like the 50-140 has aperture markings, while another constant zoom like the 10-24 is unmarked. This makes no sense (or at least I can’t find a sense in it).
On the other hand, the clutch mechanism on the 23mm makes sense, so you can use it for zone focussing in street photography… a nice feature to have. A cluch mechanism makes probably less sense on the 56mm, where in MF you probably prefer to look through the viewfinder and adjust focus using the more precise (or “more conservative”) digital DOF measurement readings. So in this case I think it’s good to have a different interface.
I think we largely agree, but I’m a pedant. A clutch is only necessary in the absence of a proper manual override. Any time a focus ring is turned, it should override AF. It is ridiculous, not to mention, unergonomic, for it not to.
Fujifilm could have gauged needs properly, could have designed lenses to conform to a standard, could have waited for ‘better’, but instead they burped into market, then burped again a few months later, and have kept burping.
There’s nothing they can do now to fix it because any new move would be a new interface, to complicate a hodgepodge the likes of which has NEVER been seen on a single mount even in the ridiculous digital age.
I agree with you. The X-PRO1 was not really a “mature” camera when it hit the market. It had a great IQ, sure, but also many quirks. It was released too early.
About the interface: As I said above, some changes make no sense, other make sense… now this is the thing:
As long as a system is “young”, I’m fine with interface changes (especially if the company applies them after listening to feedback of customers/photographers). No camera is perfect from the start, and every brand applied changes to its products.
I mean, if I could compare the interface of my (s)old E-PL1 (2010) with the one of the E-PL7, or the one of my (s)old GF3 with the GF7, I’m pretty sure I’d be shocked by the interface changes.
Well, in the first years, Fuji tried to find it’s interface… but now they are no more it its infancy. I hope they will find more consistency between the models in future (and that the button layout doesn’t change again with the X-PRO2 😉 )
I guess you meant the button layout should be finalized in the X-PRO2. Layouts has been changing for the better mostly (X100->X100T) and I think Fuji’s reaching a point now where they should finalize their layout across their cameras. It’s been a long time since the X-Pro1, and I do expect some changes.
Of course, there will be changes over the button layout in the X-PRO1.
“Fuji’s reaching a point now where they should finalize their layout across their cameras.”
That’s what I want too 🙂
Yeah, same here!
Let’s hope they will not place the video button right next to the shutter release again, where the ISO button used to be. Just one example of this annoying inconsistency not only for lenses.
let’s hope the XPro2 does not even have a video button
They should have finalised the layout from day one, not three years later, where new layouts make early products stick out as glorified P&S cameras.
If we were talking about public betas, then the statement: :I think Fuji’s reaching a point now where they should finalize their layout across their cameras,” would make sense.
You’ve obviously never made anything in your life or you’d know getting it 100% perfect first time for anything remotely complex is nigh on impossible if you ever plan to get it shipped.
That is one area where you are wrong. I am hard on Fujifilm, but I’m surprised that most of us here just accept their myriad inconsistencies with sugar and relish.
Absolutely, no one gets 100% perfect in the first go, let alone the fifth. But in the space of 3 years, Fujfiilm have managed to create a system that is no where near compatible across cameras, or even versions of cameras. Three years in there seems to be an interface forming.
This is isn’t the dawn of 35mm photography, or the dawn of the SLR. They’ve entered a mature market with a product line that hasn’t decided what it is, or how it should be handled.
Don’t tell you you’re fine with a car company putting moving the transmission box all around the cockpit, or putting reverse up near first sometimes, then moving it down below 5th, willy nilly? Or moving the steering column from right to left, and maybe making a side, not front, or rear drive… just because no one gets anything perfect.
I said ‘finalised’, not perfect. And yes, it is possible to finalise a design prior to releasing it, or sticking with something without beta-styling every single thing you put out.
Fujifilm made some very deep, very problematic missteps and NO ONE IS CALLING THEM ON IT but me. In which case maybe I’ve read it all wrong and they have marketed their stuff to the right crowd: the ones that never, ever question, and who stylise themselves as superior to users of other systems, etc., and who congregate about a name for the simple reason: (I’ll let you fill that in)
I think you’re overplaying it, I regularly use the 14mm, 27mm and 60mm. Now the 14mm has the clutch mechanism, the 27mm has no aperture ring and the 60mm has an aperture ring but no clutch. It really doesn’t bother me at all. From a design standpoint should it be consistent? Absolutely. But from a practical stand point I never find myself trying to twist the 27mm to change aperture or pull the focus ring on the 60mm to switch to manual focus. When I shot Nikon with a mix of G and D lenses I could cope with some having aperture rings and others not, some having rotating front elements and others not etc. The only thing that regularly annoys me with Fuji lenses is the ridiculous number of filter sizes required, especially at the impractical 39mm end of the scale.
It is entirely possible that I am overplaying it, but here’s the difference:
Nikon made Ai/S then D AF lenses with aperture lenses for decades. Rotating front element lenses came about when they tried to keep pace with Canon’s cheapening out.
Once they dropped the aperture, it never came back. Gone. Then there was only one interface. A rotating element isn’t a different element, it is just a bad design.
And it came about decades later and survived for decades. Fujifilm have bifurcated and bifurcated the line so much that it feels it should be around for 90 years. It’s been three.
That is a huge problem.
I think we can both agree Fuji needs to get its act together and standardise on lens design. But where I disagree and where I think you’re making a mountain out of a molehill, is in terms of user experience. Switching between lenses with slightly different physical interfaces isn’t actually a problem in the real world.
I think the mountain exists. Something that should, and usually is, standardised, isn’t. Interface design is difficult, but it is imperative to get right. Hardware interfaces especially.
If a company cannot decide, that bodes ill for the now, and for the future.
Ok, I think everybody will agree, when I say that there is no perfect camera system. No matter where we look at, we will find some molehills/mountains problems (depending on our needs).
The question is, what do I want from a camera, what are my priorities?
I want a great image quality, I want a beautiful camera, I want a camera I have fun to use, I want manual control over certain settings, I want a wide selection of high quality lenses, I want its interface to be as far as possible similar across all their camera/lenses, I want a good battery life, I want a well build camera, I want….
Poor battery life? Really annoying! But 2 small spare batteries, and I won’t run of of power for a whole day. The interface inconsistency? Annoying. I just switched from the X-E2 to the X-T1… how I hated to continue to push the wrong buttons! But more than a month has passed, and now I don’t push the thumb dial anymore to magnify and check focus but the dedicated button… I simply got used to it.
Bad (or few) lenses, poor IQ at higher ISO or ugly camera? Now that would be a real mountain-problem for me.
So you see, how big or not the problem is, depends on our personal preferences. For example: if I was a PRO with an X-T1 as a main camera and an X-E2 as a back-up camera, the different button layout would probably drive me nuts, when I have to switch between cameras often. For those using just one camera as me, a different button layout is a minor problem, because I get used to it quickly.
That being said, I want to be clear: an as much as possible similar interface across all their cameras is something Fuji should really work on, and your critics in this regard are spot on and I’m glad you shared them here on FR.
The “Pro” of X-Pro1 wasn’t short for Professional.
It was short for Prototype.
With the new AF+MF (DMF) mode enabled, clutch (which I generally love) behaves very, um… unclutchy. So ohm image is wrong, we have 10 interfaces 🙂
I stand corrected. And tired. Unless I am again wrong time and time again, I won’t ever have more than the 35/1,4 XF lens. The lenses, and their myriad, functionally incompatibilities, are tiring, and ridiculous.
“This lens system, while full of great glass, is an impairment of logical thinking.”
[ADMIN EDIT: please use well-considered arguments to discuss the interface-inconsistency problem ohm-image is talking about]
Totally agree. Consistency!!!
Different uses, different interfaces…
27mm goal : compact => no aperture ring
It will be bigger with aperture ring and nobody would buy it…
I agree with Patrick about some strange things “10-24, which is constant aperture don’t have marked aperture ring” but other differences isn’t a big deal for me…
Lenses roughly the same size as the 27 have had both aperture rings, and focus rings for years. I have one: Nikon’s re-imagined 45/2,8, which is pretty much as close to the 27/2,8 as can be, but in equivalent terms, gives an even faster aperture target onto a larger sensor.
It is a design catastrophe that the X line of lenses is so completely in disarray so soon. It’s been only three years. Patrick is 100% correct. And so am I.
It is wrong to just let Fujfilm walk all over good, sound, and researched haptics/ergonomics like it doesn’t matter.
18mm is already pretty small.. what about something like in the 40-50mm range, at f/2 or so in compact/pancake form? That way users could have a pancake kit of 18mm, 27mm, and 45mm or whatever.
Mirrorless site is reporting about a Samsung’s organic sensor and showing first image from a 5 Mp testing version. Maybe this puts some pressure on the development of the Fuji/Panasonic project.
http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/samsung-s-new-organic-on-si-cmos-sensors-doubles-the-light-input-surface-area-of-each-pixel#view-comments
yeah it’s right,but P&J(panny and fuji) had (organic) prototype sensor more one year ago,how to progress?
Reputation and market competition rules may drive Fuji/Panasonic to rush to be the first to offer it, specially if the agreement foresees that Panasonic can sell the new sensor to other camera manufacturers.
and the sample image is awful…
As a matter o fact it is, but you’ve to consider that’s from a “reduced” resolution prototype.
If they feel confident enough to show it may be a good indication that they believe in future enhancements, unless it is just a way to market their “technologic development capabilities” and that public will forget about if it proves to be just another “wander” that doesn’t materialize as many others from a lot of companies.
The 24 MP update for the X-Pro2 and the upgraded phase autofocus system seems completely reasonable since Fuji uses Sony sensors. What is the most current APSC sensor from Sony? As far as I know the one build in the a6000 (“EXMOR® APS HD CMOS Sensor APS-C, 24,3 mpx”).
Imho it’s a bummer they have to raise the megapixel, just because Sony does not produce new 16 mpx sensors. I prefer bigger pixels and therefor better low light performance. But anyway, the most interesting part is what Fuji said in the past and what they said currently. They told us 16 mpx are enough for years because they used this old sensor over and over again. Now there was an interview where the Manager Iida Toshihisa said: “The resolution is going to be increased. With the increase of pixels,
the performance becomes a concern, but innovation is bringing the
solution to that. But the lenses having also a limited resolution, we
are going to reach a maximum. We consider that 25Mpx is that maximum for
APS-C.” This may sound as if it was their decision to join the megapixel race, but in my eyes this reveals that they are just running behind Sony and they have to suck up what they get.
Hopefully the R&D with Panasonic will lead to Independency from Sony.
I would love to have a pancake version of the XF 23mm F1.4. Our just the lens of the X100/S/T. One reason for me choosing Fuji was the compactness including the huge image Quality. The size of the XF 35mm is good! But what about the 23mm? On the X-E2 it’s a bit too large for an “allways on” lens.
However i think they should move with time. We are paying a lot for these 16mp corped factor camera and lenses. The 56 apd is even more expensive than a FF lens 135 STF which also has apd and dual aperture . It slowly stops making sense.
What a wonderful example of a limitless GAS-related fantasy.
That’s not even a GAS.
GASturbation maybe.
What a big fat frog being cooked in warm water, has no idea it’s being cooked.
Frog being dancing céilí all along.
Just in case you haven’t realized it. That’s a metaphor. Under that particular situation,the frog happily “dance” without knowing it’s being cooked. Based on your comments, i think it suits current situation pretty well ╮(╯_╰)╭
Please enlighten us with some details of that evil conspiracy. Fuji is doing what exactly to boil the frog, expensive glass? Pricey bodies? Why, go get a Sony. Most of their cameras are used (if used for anything but measurebation) with cheap adapted lenses anyway.
No no no. Don’t get me wrong. You are the frog boiled by Fuji. I always think Fuji does a good job here.
You are the robin rounded by Sony. We can keep on going like that till Patrick uses his banhammer, or could you puleeze (with sugar on top) tell us exactly what Fuji did to earn the “boiling frog” metaphor?
(hint, hint: “boiling frog is boiling because it’s a boiling frog” is not an explanation)
If I didn’t forget it fuji uses Sony sensor to achieve best IQ. Now Sony is to be blamed. As a proud user of both X-T1 and A7, what can i say. DPR must have made a mistake in their review to make xf 56 look so pitiful compared with fe 55.
Ok, my popcorn is ready right on time to watch you edit your comments. We’ve had aggressive trolls here, hysterical trolls, bipolar trolls, even feminist trolls… and now a schizoid troll. Cool!
Yeah, opinions are much fun to watch that facts. Finally we see eye to eye on one thing.
So far you presented no facts other than that the Fuji uses a 16 megapixel sensor developed by Sony. From there on you suddenly got stuck on the “boiling frog” litany, poor thing.
PS: You realize that I receive original editions of your comments by email, right?
I’m sorry about that. My editing definitely blurred your pictures. I will stop it right away : )
Then you are boiled twice (Sony and Fuji)
Above and beyond lens and organic chatter, I for one am looking forward to the potential for a modular approach to the upgrade path. I guess this will only apply to internals, but it would mean we’d be able to customise our body according to needs or budget. Major redesign will be needed but I for one this its a great approach.
that’s a point I’d like to see too.
What’s so hard about integrating GPS instead of Wifi or the other way round. Tilt vs fix screen. und a few more options. Most of us wouldn’t care about waiting 2-3 weeks for the camera (some preorder months before the stuff comes out)
It would make Fuji unique and special again.
and very expensive too… In fact I’m pretty sure it would be more expensive to have both gps and wifi in all cameras.
Above and beyond lens and organic chatter, I for one am looking forward to the potential for a modular approach to the upgrade path. I guess this will only apply to internals, but it would mean we’d be able to customise our body according to needs or budget. Major redesign will be needed but I for one think this is a great approach.
The release date for the XF 35 would be interesting! I’m in the market for a XF 35. A new version would be fantastic and worth a few months to wait.
Agreed! Glad I didn’t pull the trigger on a used XF35 yet
WR 100mm 1:1 MACRO f 2.8 lens. PLEASE. Why is such a lens not even in the roadmap yet after so long? That plus XT-1 would be great for field nature macro work.
I definitely think a 105mm macro would be great and I look forward to seeing one. But it’s not really a priority. Most macro work is done manually so adapted lenses are a good way to go until more of the core lens set is released.
The ‘pay for parts’ story is extremely interesting. It reminds me of Leica, what they could do with the M3 & M4. It would increase the value of an investment in the X-series very significantly versus ALL competition if they keep the price reasonable enough. So I’m pretty convinced that the next gen 24MP will be a traditional CMOS, likely another Sony (A6000-alike?) – well, I’ll give it immediately a place in my X-T1 😉 . Despite all the organic sensor chatter I still think this belongs more to the ‘vaporware’ arena than being a real concept. How many years do we drag this story through expectations and rumors and who has ever seen decent evidence it is not just a lab-experiment? Anything that is shifting easily with another year can be scratched from the list. Also Samsung is now in the same slipstream. Sony has been. And Fuji started first, speculation existed already for the X-Pro1 prior to its release, but Fuji had apparently to team up with Panasonic – it does tell something about the R&D effort and likely even the business case, to be made. Something in my left toe tells me I don’t want to be the first one to have this kind of experiment in a camera and I won’t be the only one.
I do hope they will roll out the organic one. But Sony might have curved sensor out by that time.
It is not the first time it’s going wrong with sensor manufacturing. Even with that magic sensor wizard called Sony: http://www.imaging-resource.com/badccds.html. No thanks, I let the very first batch of organic marvels and curved sensors gratefully pass to the true tech geek believers.
Sony has already applied it to a selfie cam, the KW1. I’m expecting to see they put it on more models. Rx1r mk2 might have one as well.
I think Sony’s problems are not in the sensors most of the time. They like to discriminate products by adding defects deliberately, which is stupid. Other rather that, most recent bodies are pretty good in their own category. The lens are a different story.
A sony FF in a Fuji body will be perfect.
I remember reading that the curved sensor had to be tied to a specific focal length, correct me if I’m wrong, but it wouldn’t be ideal for an ICL camera.
Sony will likely continue to only offer compressed RAW files, which is disappointing and shocking. Also, if they can’t resolve the shutter vibration issue, it will be a waste of time releasing the A7r ii. The A7r is a crippled camera,; which shouldn’t have been released until they resolved that problem.
Well compression seemed serious, but the results is still OK through. As for A7r, if you took a D800/800e/810, you probably feel the same since 36MP has higher skill requirement. Vibration is less of a problem compared with shutter lag and in-camera JPEG comparison.
Can you make a Fujitsu related comment, without mentioning Sony?
We get it… you prefer Sony. Noted.
Maybe the pay for parts thing also means you can choose your own sensor! ^.^
..or upgrade it later.
Chances are, different sensors would have to be installed along with appropriate processors, RAM etc, meaning that you’d basically get a completely different camera with the new sensor. In an old shell.
…And that ain’t gonna fly in our consumerist society.
Would be cheaper still. Especially on Hybrid VF cameras where the VF alone costs 20-30%. Throw in the lcd, battery etc., you get my idea.
Shipping and logistics costs would also be down – compare a well packaged camera with accessories and fluff, and a simple padded bag with a replacement part.
I get the idea, I just don’t see the market appeal. People who upgrade their cars by replacing or tuning up the engine, transmission etc, are extremely small niche. Same with the cameras: your average uncle Bob loves bragging about how many megapixels his new camera has… but what he loves even more is when people instantly recognize that new camera of his. That’s the big part of X-T1s success, and that’s why mass market never gonna fall for modular phones or “same shell, different guts” cameras. For the mass market, cameras are bling.
That’s true, market will never understand. And unfortunately it will make the upgrade strategy only more expensive for us enthusiasts, if ever implemented.
It’s more of a dream than a realistic idea, at least in the way it’s discussed here, parts are not all that interchangeable and compatible between generations.
But Fujifilm could put an environmentalistic spin on this, and it could help promote the idea in certain markets a lot.
I hear you Trenton, it may only have minor appeal. It may also result in Fuji shooting themselves in the foot commercially – essentially removing some hardcore GAPpers from their books.
I still find the idea appealing though, as in general I like Fuji’s hardware design & ergonomics. I imagine that it won’t be a wholesale ‘replace everything’ implementation though, with just a few critical components being upgradeable. One problem I see from this though is that it may dilute the base product because they will want to encourage us to take the undoubtedly expensive modular upgrade path. You mentioned cars, and BMW do this with their range – the basic incarnations (although well built) are just crying out for customisation, and BMW undoubtedly profit from this approach.
All conjecture at this stage I know, but interesting nonetheless.
I think it could be implemented not as a modular approach, but more of a hardware Kaizen. Just some relatively small things that are of interest to enthusiasts. Ergonomic updates (better buttons, anyone?), for example. Buffer size upgrades. Et cetera, et cetera… BMWzen.
I agree. If it’s a serious proposition wrapped in a viable body rather than a cosmetic nicety, I’d shag it.
And if combined with the interchangeable mount rumor, may be you can upgrade to full-frame sensor. Two mounts, two types of sensors. That would be the true implementation of FF upgrade path:))
What about warranty ? What happen if I break my camera trying to install the new sensor (or other part). I think it won’t happen soon or we’d have to pay Fuji to install the new parts and it will be very expensive. What happen if I install an oversized (megapixels) sensor in a body with limited processor / buffer ? All the stability of the camera would be affected…
What happens to your camera if you screw up a DSLR trying to wet clean a sensor or change focusing screen? Same here. If you are confident in your motor skills, DIY and save some time and money (at your own risk, of course). If not, or if you’re not willing to take risks – just send it in.
A Chinese reader here, just want to clarify the google-translated part relating to the organic sensor (“differing only available time (P recorded in 2015 DEC / 2016 JAN)“). The sentence should read “All difficulties for mass producing O-CMOS have been eliminated, the only question left unanswered is the time to hit the market (for Panasonic, it will be Dec 2015 / Jan 2016)”
off-topic, but X-T1 is the runner-up (along with sigma 50mm f1.4 art) for DPReview reader’s choice best product of 2014 award. D750 and A7II jointly got the award itself. A good company for X-T1, I think.
Cheers
This is also off topic but you could combine D750 or A7ii with the sigma 50 art without loosing AF.
You could also combine macaroni and cheese. Relevance?
Not much. XF 35, 56 are also good lens. Just not optically as good as sigma 35/50 art or FE 35/55 that has almost the same price tag. But again, downsizing image to fit the web browser (to keep one’s eyes blind, but mind most importantly) will solve most problems : D
I also forget to mention at least the FE 35/55 will not come with high quality dust/flecks coming straight from Fuji manufacture. Enjoy~
Fascinating fantasies. You almost qualify as a troll. Almost. Problem is, trolls typically just role playing, while you seem to be a sincere nutcase.
…Or a teenager.
Just so you know that your eyes deserve better glasses as well as your camera. Teenagers in general have better eyesight 🙂
You’ll go blind if you keep pixel peeping different camera systems on DPReview 😉
Wooo ! I didn’t know it was possible to view a raw…
Or maybe it’s processed ? Which settings ? Maybe different results with others settings / raw converter ?
I heard Adobe was the worst raw converter for X-trans and this is raw converted by… wait for it… ACR 8.7.1 beta.
Waitaminute. What if we read it backwards? That dual mount camera rumor… combined with Fuji’s partnership with Panasonic and rumors about soon-to-be-announced new member of M43 consortium… Yep. What if Fuji is about to enter the MFT arena?
Just a wild speculation.
To make it wilder, the new fuji with m43 sensor would be organic and will match the new aps-c fuji in terms of DD and noise.And on top – all that will be interchangeable, like a richoh gxr, haha)
That’s DR for non-Russians, not DD 🙂
Thanks, corrected:)
That actually makes a lot more sense. Fuji could adapt the mount on their lenses for m43 pretty easily and keep it the same size (similar to the Rokinon stuff for Fuji). It would be a win-win for Fuji and the m43 consortium to do that. Especially if it led to Panasonic making some lenses for Fuji or Sigma making some for Fuji.
I believe that MFT has quite a bit longer flange distance than the Fuji X mount. Hence the dual mount camera that takes both X and MFT (latter in crop mode) lenses are technically possible. But adapting X lenses for MFT would require Tardis.
I didn’t bother to measure 🙂 But still an intriguing idea.
flange focal distances
x-mount 17.7mm
mft 19.25mm
It can be done. You’ll need some sort of glass element to refocus the light for the flange difference. That’s how they get a 42mm canon FD lens adaptor for the 44mm EOS mount.
Hm, what current Fuji lens would be interesting in m43? I guess only 56/1.2.
23/1.4 would be interesting as an alternative to Pana 25/1.4 if it weren’t too expensive. Rumored 140-400 and 16/1.4 could be interesting…
It is very likely that you will pay the price of a FF lens to get the 140-400.
Fuji prices are generally FF or more.
I actually speculated that on DPReview a year ago, though it was a joke & I predicted it would occur in 2014. 🙂
I told myself the same thing but it doesn’t make sense. Fuji wants to sell us more XF lenses, not Panasonic / Olympus lenses. It woul be an huge error for them…
And I think Olympus (IBIS) and Panasonic (video / AF) are better than Fuji for m4/3.
the headline i feel like panasonic will release first Organic sensor,why ? they do it together ! and 24mpx to x-pro2 that about Organic shifting 🙂
about new X-M that something i feel fuji revision X-M,X-M will compete to A6000 ,E-M10 or GX7 successor.X-A for mirrorless starter.
The yields of a m43 sensor vs the APS may be the reason for a brief delay — assuming the sensor comes to market.
more 1 year ago we knew panasonic&fuji disclosed Organic sensor,it not white paper but prototype sensor ,but we do not saw it,i think it not M4/3 & APS-C possibility it small than 1″ sensor
,
Now,Today Samsung can produce Organic+Si CMOS sensor
that good new but why they do not produce Organic APS-C sensor?
*then that is same reason…
No, Samsung can demonstrate Organic+Si CMOS sensor, just as Fuji demonstrated an organic sensor some years ago. A demonstration does not yet make a product.
Definitely not. Demonstrations of organic sensor had been around for some time. Application is unpredictable. The only “innovation” that entered the market is a small curved sensor. Can’t even tell when the bigger ones are coming.
Hope the battle would be more fierce between these manufactures. That probably would force them to put new tech into production.
A single explanation could explain both the modularity and the dual mount: a camera that can switch mounts like the Ricoh GXR. It would make it possible to keep the same controls but to swap the mount/camera sensor assembly.
“And, it will not coded as M2.”
“Body will back light prevention setting system”
etc.
Sorry, what language is that?
Ever heard of Google Translate?
new model ,
new model name,i hope new x-m replacement come out
with super fast AF,basic EVF(1.44.1.84mdot) ,more control,
touch screen
If you want a pancake version of the 23 mm, it won’t be f/1.4.
Maybe the 2spec for the xpo2 will be one as a range finder style, and one like a upgraded xt1?
Highly unlikely. But a high megapixel “hot rod” / low megapixel “night owl” in the same body are tried and true way of “2spec” dichotomy (if that’s what it means)).
That would be pretty cool. My original comment probably doesn’t make sense considering the extra cost that the hvf adds… I wouldn’t mind the night owl version!
24MP FF sensor has almost the same pixel density as 16MP corped sensor. That means pixel size are nearly identical. So with FF lens you gather more light with more pixels to record the same view.
But I’m sure that’s going to “downgrade” IQ according to some standards. GAS bug, i guess 😀
Whatever the reason for this reference to FF (which nobody talked about), what you said is plain wrong. 16 MP APS has a pixel density very close to the D800 = 36 MP.
What was talked about is a 24 MP APS sensor. So yes, that would degrade pixel level quality compared to 16 MP. I personally much prefer 16 MP especially for RAW size and processing speed.
Please just go bash Fuji on Sonyrumors. Critiquing Fuji is important but you’re just bashing. Same for peevee.
You caught me there. Thank you for pointing out. I actually bash my Sony fellow users with my Fuji camera as well : ). i just hate fan boy of any brands, especially someone who doesn’t get paid to talk. Too bad this two company can’t just work out a camera together.
But again, when I use a 85mm FF lens on a 24MP FF camera, and a 56mm APS-C lens on a 16MP APS-C camera, I was still recording the scene with more pixels on FF camera.
It’s not about “being a fanboy”, it’s about “I’m invested in a system and I don’t want to lose money switching to other system only for a minimal improvment in IQ”. I’m pretty sure A7(R) or any others camera are very good, maybe better than Fuji today.
But I don’t give a shit because I own Fuji lenses and I’m used to Fuji ergonomy. I’m pretty sure Fuji IQ is more than adequate for me and even if Fuji is one/two years behind in IQ, I don’t care. I will probably buy a Fuji camera in few years if improvment are enough to justify the price. That’s the only way to keep using lenses. Or maybe I’ll switch and try to sell lenses the best I can.
I’d like manufacturers to work together on a unique mount but it won’t happen…
The thing I don’t like is people always trying to tell us what-to-buy / what-is-the-best using some kind of charts / 200% crop / price comparason on a particular body / lens combinaison.
And you seem to be that kind of person, or at least on this particular thread. Please buy what you like or can afford and let me do the same in my own context (context = even if X or Y lenses/body has a better quality/price, it’d be more expensive to change my system).
Well I did not recommend anyone to get Sony. I was just saying there is room to improve while other opposed me saying 16MP is better than 24MP. (bigger pixels, night owl, blablabla). If you read earlier post you will see at least one loud person there.
Minimum improvement could be a opinion. As you see below, the X-T1 is mounted with a XF 56, which is great. A7 is on FE55, and A6000 is on FE55 as well. ISO are the same. The night owl 16 MP is clearly having some problem compared with both hotspot 24MP.
ACR is not the “best”. This is true for Sony as well. Sony offers Phase one capture one as their official RAW converter. Fuji gave me silkypix.
Well I hope you care enough. I think Fuji now is selling as if it is leica. I got a new lense (XF56) last month and I received it with internal metal flecks. Priced similarly, FE55 has dust seal at least. As I said, there is room to improve. But if users like you just said, I don’t care. They probably won’t do anything to make improvement unless they want to raise price again.
You need a shave, your palms are hairy.
As hairy as your eyes i guess :]
It’s less expensive for me to buy a XF-56mm than a FE-55mm + body + others lenses and quality isn’t that different with a good raw converter.
Then A7 + 55mm might be a better option, but not for me and not for most Fuji users. I don’t say 16mp is perfect, I just say I prefer waiting for Fuji making a new body with improvments (IG, AF) than buying a Sony / other brand right now. And I totally believe that my X-E1 will be enough for me in the next few years.
And you compare an older generation 16mp to a newer generation 24mp, that doesn’t make any sense… Let’s compare Sony A7S to A7…
I actually like my x-e1’s color better than x-t1. Price wise, the old 16mp is wow….
Well, don’t you have to get a body in the first place? I use X-T1 ($1199) and X-E1 ($499) and XF 56 ($849). It is roughly the same price with FE-55 ($998) + A7 ($1298) or A6000 ($549) since a few month back. I have to mention that ALL FE mount FF lens are dust-proof and moisture resistant. The weight is not heavier compared with recently released Fuji lens. And many are from Zeiss. I went through an internal battle and get X-T1 last Oct. I ordered an A7 and finally returned it without opening the box. But now, I still picked up an A7.
As for preferences, it is an opinion.
As for AF, all CDAF camera sucks compared with PDAF cameras. No PDAF for Fuji at least for now. Dimension of X mount is also incapable of fitting a FF sensor inside.
An off topic note. Even Olympus today figured out a way to take part in the pixel war. EM-5II can generate 40MP still pictures with multiple shots (RGB sampling enabled) by moving its sensors with its image stability system. This was first seen on a Hasselblad camera, and I hope it would come to A7ii as well. Pentax is going to release a FF camera. Canon has a 50.1MP coming up on CP+.
And what we know about Fuji is that it might probably finally release a 24MP camera. And, there are many users (hopefully not paid to talk) even expressing negative thoughts about it.
As I mentioned at the beginning. Fuji is asking for a lot of money. It does not fall behind in the price tag war. I therefore think it should at least follow the tide to a certain level. More pixels is a good thing. And Sony is improving over time. A6000 has better ISO ratings and higher pixels compared with NEX-7 and it is selling for half the price. There is no point to stick with old sensors, praising 16MP night owl, looking down upon 24MP which is also capable to see (better, maybe) in the dark
I don’t claim 16mp X-trans is a night owl like somebody else did. Or maybe it’s a very old one with not so good nightvision compared to a young whatever-non-nocturn-bird.
I’d prefer a similar sensor to A6000 or better, but for now my X-E1 is enough and I prefer buying more lenses than change brand and build a system from zero.
If I didn’t had X-body / X-lenses, I’d probably do differently.
Thank you for clarifying that. I prefer my X-E1 as well. Picked up $260 used with 1600 clicks. And I now like it over X-T1 in terms of color rendering.
I only have 1 auto lens. XF 10-24 at hand now. All others are manual. I am not sure I can hold on to the XF 10-24 when I received my Distagon 28 to use on A7.
Yep, I agree that fanboyism is very harmful to the camera industry. As an example the unwillingness of many Fuji shooters to accept the terrible plastic skin the X-Trans II cameras produce above ASA 3200 (in JPEG) in my opinion leads to Fuji not giving us the choice to turn it off. I’m really disappointed that neither Zack nor David Hobby mention this with a single word on their sites.
But not everybody who defends their brand-of-choice is a fanboy. I honestly don’t want more than 16 MP or the extra cost and weight of FF. And I’ll rather take Fuji’s lens selection over Sony’s (current) or Nikon’s any day. The extra detail 24 MP gets me is irrelevant to what I do with my photos.
Of course pixel size matters. All else equal, larger pixels are better. But smaller pixels give you more detail (when the sensor size is the same). So one needs to find the personal optimum between detail, pixel level quality, DOF needs, cost, size and weight. To me 16 MP APS right now is optimal for what I do though 12 MP would also suffice.
Well, it’s just the observation that most people bashing Fuji here are Sony users 😉 Also we’re talking about mirrorless here and the Nikons are all DSLRs.
Thank you for your opinion. I personally have A7 and X-T1 and both are kept for a reason. My problem is with someone shouting 16MP is better than 24MP with multiple opinions.
Most reviewers/website runners are paid. They are not always telling readers what is in their mind, especially the cons.
BTW, I mostly use manual lens on both cam.
In a matter of fact, Fuji’s noise level is not exceptionally better. All images have the same ISO (pic 1). Probably most of your shots were taken at ISO higher than 800 (pic 2). In that case you might want a Fuji but noise reduction smears the details (pic 3).
Are you a fan of Audio Technica? Headphones or microphones?
Headphones primarily. But only dedicated to AD2000x after years of trying different stuff. I am a fan of AD2kx other than a fan of audio technica. I had W1000x but sold it when I got AD2kx. How about you? Mics, I guess?
I just shot a bunch of headphones for Headphone Book (Tokyo portable audiophile magazine), which details the newest headphones out of Japan and the world.
Had a bunch of AT’s in studio yesterday. I have three AT headphones: ES10, CK10, ES7, and had the CK100Pro and ESW11LTD. Make all my money from headphones, amps, DACs, etc.
That’s really cool! I wish I could be in your position. Really can’t go crazy on anything when I have to split funds into both cameras and audio gears : /
Well, I spend only on cameras and gear for work now. The headphones I collect, or buy and sell, but mainly use them for a few weeks at a time for shoots, or when reviewing at headfonia. Love to have you chime in if there’s something you’d like.
I recently did an ode to the CK10: http://www.headfonia.com/back-future-friday-audio-technica-ck10/
As for Fujifilm: I’ve found their lack of concurrent magnification/panning to be a big hindrance to my workflow, otherwise I’d probably use the X-T1 more often.
It shot two or three frames yesterday vs. 40 taken by the Sony A7r.
I’ll be delighted to join! I will check the link later.
Yeah 36mp is really charming. Thought about buying it once but eventually picked up a x-t1 to carry around with. But a new xf56 lens I bought last monh came with a shinning fleck inside and eventually drove me to get an a7. I am still thinking about what I am going to keep
What’s your point here? The images I see are all with the Fuji set one stop higher.
Trying to illustrate why Fuji should be in the tech race.
Does one stop faster give you better corner sharpness?
Fuji’s iso 200 equals iso 100 on every other camera.
What do you mean with better corner sharpness? One stop of what?
Have you tested that claim? My own comparison with my D7000 show about 1/3rd stop difference. The dpreview comparison also shows the same shutter speed for X-T1 and A7II yet the exposures look very similar. Definitely not one whole stop difference.
I’ve read that the difference with X-Trans I was bigger (more like 2/3rd stop), but can’t verify that.
Since you asked, I borrowed an A6000 and compared with my X-E1 and X-T1. I used a manual lens, canon FD 50 1.4, on all 3 cameras. ISO, aperture, and shutter speed are all manually controlled. Below are results.
I mounted them on a crappy tripod since I don’t have L bracket for the Sony to mount on my good tripod. Please ignore some minor differences if there were any.
Do not spend too much time on color rendering. This is only to show you how Fuji labeled their ISO.
1.X-T1 ISO 200, F2.8, 1/125s
2.A6000 ISO 200, F2.8, 1/125s
3.X-E1 ISO 400, F2.8, 1/125s
It is very obvious that X-T1 has the lowest exposure. A6000 and X-E1 almost have the same results. That means, Fuji’s ISO is marked higher than it actually is.
Yeah the X-T1 clearly looks darker. But to me the X-E1 also looks clearly brighter so you should have tested more than full stops.
Using one lens on all three cameras is a good start but to conduct this test properly you would need to take several shots of each setting (aperture can vary) and compare the RAW histograms in something like FRV. So I would not advise you to take this test as basis for running around claiming on the internet that the Fuji’s ISO rating is one whole stop off. There are rules to this standard and I’m pretty sure Fuji couldn’t use the term ISO if it wasn’t within the specifications.
This is just a open “secret”, which some just decided not to face it. The three cameras have different software. Even X-E1’s Provia is more vivid and redish compared with X-T1’s. Plus Sony has different sensor design. Minor difference is expected. X-T1, however, demonstrated a huge difference that cannot be counted as test error. The statement that Fuji has not “played with” their ISO is clearly incorrect. No win for Fuji in this case. The only difference is, how badly it could turn out to be.
Yes, one will need a thousand experiments to proof a theory, but one exception could just ruin it. X-T1 here is that bad example to show Fuji’s ISO play.
Chris, I’ll leave this discussion now. It’s not productive if you don’t actually answer my questions and quote “statements” that I didn’t say. I said it should be tested with 1/3rd stops and you didn’t say anything about that. Neither about viewing the actual RAW file instead of the already cooked Lightroom version.
Your logic on that last statement is totally flawed, think about it again.
Also “open ‘secrets'” on the internet in no way have to be true. Even if they were true once the internet never forgets and so only _proper_ testing _today_ can tell the truth. The internet is so full of BS one should never trust anything blindly.
If you check DXO’s bench results, you might see things differently. Some 16MP old APS-C sensors are likely to be outperformed in low light by newer 24MP sensors.
A compact version of the 23mm lens seems to be highly desired. XC, maybe f2 or 2.8. But it seems that fuji is doing either the 18, 20 or 35mm first.
How cool would it be if you could control the in camera raw converter on your ipad in the fuji app? Ie edit your photos on a nice big screen. Completely off topic I know haha
At his point why not just make a full-featured raw converter for the two big platforms (android and iOS)
It would be really slow.
The control too. Just the export would be a bit faster. Not wort it..
That’s why I connect my X10 to a TV through the HDMI port. The TV has better dynamic range than my laptop, and probably better than the iPad.
For the Pay for Parts, maybe Fuji will do something similar to what the MF cameras did. We might see a camera with the body (with 2 mounts), back (sensor), and lens.
Would love that, but it won’t happen. I think current camera makers are too into the integrated approach, which nets locked in customers, begs frequent product refreshes, and more time in the media limelight.
Maybe it refers to paid firmware-upgrades to unlock special features. But I don’t think they will go that way either. To many people will think they already paid for the hardware and all the firmware should be for free or they feel cheated.
Unless this is clearly laid out when you buy. I would not be against a yearly fee
Thanks JZ. Good to hear that Panasonic and Fuji has resolved all issues for their organic sensor. Now there is something to look forward to. Let the battle begin, it is shaping up to be the most exciting year yet.
And how did that work out for Ricoh?
You would like to protect your Fujifilm master while you dont even know how to spell its name? I have a X-T1 and A7 now. I think I am qualified to speak.
How sure are we that we are going to get the 35mm 1.4? I am looking into buying the current version but if we are going to have a new one I might wait..
What is the rating that we’ll get the new 35?
A low noise, high ISO night owl would be most useful. I do lots of night shooting and use a Leica (m240) and Fuji for most of my doc work. The Leica is very poor at night, I don’t even bother with it much for on the fly street shooting at night. The Fuji is ‘just’ doable too, but I like it better than the Leica at night.
A good deal of the night shots for this project was shot with an X-E1. Also all the product shots were done with the Fuji.
http://dewallenrld.tumblr.com/
I used the Leica mainly for day work. I much prefer the Leica controls, but the Fuji sensor is stupendous. (As long as the light is half ass. The red light shots were nearly in the dark. You can see one of the comparisons shots to show before and after with PP.