↑ Fujifilm X-Pro2 ↑
More Leaked Images Here
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Let’s start 2016 in the same way as 2015 ended: with lot’s of rumors 🙂 . So here are more X-Pro2 specs:
- lossless RAW compression
- 273 Focus Points
- Improved Noise Reduction (sounds like we are going to get rid of waxy skin tones at high ISO in jpeg’s 😉 )
- Pixel Mapping
- Grain Effect
- New Menu Interface
- The X-Pro2 will use Fujifilm NP-W126 batteries (for the best cheap 3rd party batteries, check out this post).
- EXR III processor will get the much cooler name “X-processor”.
And just in case you had a good & fun time here on Fujirumors with all the rumors in the last months, feel free to support my rumor work on January 15, by purchasing the X-Pro2 using one of the links to stores I’ll share here on Fujirumors. You will not pay a singly penny more on your X-Pro2, but a small commission is valued back to Fujirumors.
Your support could allow me to keep this blog open also in 2016.
stay tuned,
Fuji X Forum, Facebook, RSS-feed and Twitter
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Fujifilm X-Pro2 Rumored Specs
TRUSTED (TS)
– APS-C sensor (TS + AS + AS)
– 1/8000 of a second mechanical shutter speed (TS + AS)
– Joystick for quick AF-point slection (TS)
– Exposure Compensation Dial with “C” function for exp.comp from +5 to -5) – (TS)
– Combined ISO/Shutter dial, with little window on shutter dial to show ISO value (TS + SRP)
– coming late 2015 (TS + AS)
– delayed to 2016 (TS)
– Coming after CES (TS)
– Announcement on 15th Janaury 2016 (TS)
– weather sealed (TS)
– 4K video (TS + NeS)
– No 4K for the X-Pro2 in Jan. 15 (TS)
– Faster Processor EXR III, but it will get the “cooler” name X-processor (TS)
– No Tilt Screen (TS + AS)
– No IBIS (TS)
– lossless RAW compression
– 273 Focus Points
– Pixel Mapping
– Grain Effect
– New Menu Interface
– Fujifilm NP-W126 batteries
– Improved Noise Reduction
SOURCE RIGHT IN THE PAST (SRP)
– Black & White Acros Film Simulation (SRP)
– Sync Speed faster than 1/180th (SRP)
– coming in January 2016 (SRP)
NEW / ANONYMOUS SOURCE (NeS – AS)
– ISO200-12800 (AS)
– 1/250 flash sync speed (AS)
– more than 200 AF points (2/3 are PDAF) – (AS)
– Hybrid EVF as X100T (AS)
– 24MP sensor (AS + AS) – More than 16MP (AS)
– about the same size of current X-PRO1 (NeS)
– dual SD card slot (NeS + AS + AS)
– tilt screen (AS)
– WiFi (AS)
– Price about 20% to 30% more expensive than the X-T1 (AS) – Note: X-T1 regular price $1,300. Add 30% to it and you get $1,700
– Two X-PRO2 version, one 24MP APS-C and one 25-27 MP APS-X, compatible with XF/XC lenses (NeS + OS)
OTHER SITES (OS)
– coming September / October (OS + OS)
– Non organic APS-C X-Trans sensor (OS)
– smaller than X-PRO1 (OS)
211 Responses
Processor-X would be cooler
And it could control the smartphone to receive the pictures wirelessly without touching the latter.
Hopefully there will be news on the sensor soon
The fact that Fuji X cameras all use the same batteries is a major plus point that doesn’t get pointed out enough. Every other camera I’ve owned had unique batteries and given how much they cost can make upgrading more of a pain than a pleasure. So, top marks Fuji!
It’s a shame the X100-line doesn’t use the same battery…
This is so true. It also makes third-party batteries very cheap to buy.
Cool news for the batteries, I already have a bunch of them
Sure. If a low capacity batteries are your thing. You’d need a bunch.
Grain effect sounds interesting. Would be great if executed well. If Fuji knows anything it’s great film grain!
It also has reduced noise, maybe you turn one down to increase the other?
Good thinking!
Fuji had 7×7 (49 total) AF points
with the X-T10 came 11×7 (77 total) and noe we get nearly twice that in both direction: 21×13 (273 total)
Nice, and a joystick is probably the best way to control all of them
Best way if there’s still no touchscreen functionality available.
I honestly don’t find touchscreen that useful as I hardrly use the screen to focus/compose always the EVF
On most Panasonic bodies and the most recent Olympus, the E-M10 II, while using the EVF you can move the focus point by touching the back screen. Works for me beautifully and much easier than using a joystick or multi-directional pad.
I have tried this “Touch AF point while looking through viewfinder” and found it to suck. That is for me, maybe everyone else feels different about it.
Touch is a nice feature, if you don’t have a viewfinder.
Otherwise Fuji would also need to implement Nose Reduction.
Try plastic surgery 🙂
I’m sure the best way would be to have a nice joystick like the one on the Leica SL and the optional touch AF in EVF mode so everyone can choose their preferred one. Omitting any of these is a mistake IMO.
Silly question, will it also have uncompressed Raw? I do hope so.
if the compression is lossless, why would you want your files bigger?
In imagery, audio etc … there is nothing like lossless compression. Unlike text, there is always a loss, whether it is deemed important or not, inside or outside of what can be normally heard / seen is another matter.
Bullshit, sorry. There’s plenty of lossless compression in audio/imagery: LZW, FLAC, ALAC, etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lossless_compression
If it was not for the aggressive tone, I could have stand corrected – after all I am always happy to learn something, now I just want to tell you ESDM
Early Start Denver Model?
Electronic System Design & Manufacturing?
Elan Sportif De Montreuil?
Experimental Standard Deviation of the Mean?
Not necessarily. Lossless compression could work the same way you are zipping your files on a PC. It would be slower but it would save a lot of space while the files are stored on your fujis sd card. When Importing to PC it could be “unpacked”. Sure, its slower, but 16 mp x-trans files are already as heavy as the 36mpix ones from nikon d800, so compressing them while they sit on your camera doin nothing could be a benefit for most users. Now imagine the 24mpix x-trans file. A 40-50 Mb for each shot? I already have enough sd cards on me…
Yes, there is lossless compression. Look at ZIP files. Stick some PSD’s, WAV’s and a Word DOC into a ZIP and see how small they get. Then pull them back out. Do you really think anything has been thrown away? This isn’t JPEG technology. Lossless compression looks for patterns in data and stores them in a more efficient way. The only “loss” is that your processor has to think more to render the file.
You are of course right no loss – but Zipping an image does not provide substantial savings in terms of space.
My D810 RAW files (lossless compression) range in size between 48mb and 32mb depending on how much detail is in the image. If I shot uncompressed, every shot would be about 50mb. That savings is significant enough for me to appreciate it if I can squeeze an extra 100 shots or so on a 16gb card.
point taken
most manufacturers work with some implementation of Lossless JPEG (don’t confuse this with jpg images, those are two different things).
More or less it works like this: instead of writing down the value of every single pixel exactly, it only notes the difference. And since most of the time pixels next to each other are similar, you have less data.
The less contrast, the better the compression (you can reduce file size to about 50% with this method)
interesting, thanks umad?!
lossless compression is – as the name suggests – lossless. (this is not the crappy lossy compression Sony implemented).
Why would you want uncompressed?!
Sorry, I think I just saw “Compressed” and had a panic attack! Thanks for the info everyone.
Another
question then, is using lossless compression on Fuji raw files going to
make post-processing slower in Lr etc?
Thanks in advance.
Will it have faster af than x-t1 by any chance?
it seems to have a new sensor with faster read out, a faster processor and more AF points.
I would say it is pretty likely to improve AF performance over the X-T1
What is Pixel Mapping?
I believe it’s where you can stop hot pixels appearing in your image, some other camera brands use this functionality.
Pixel Mapping function looks for dead pixels at the sensor. When such pixels are found, a radial interpolation explores the pixels around the dead or stuck pixel, maps their locations, and inserts data enabling the camera to mimic what the dead or stuck pixel should be doing.
Hopefully this can be achieved with firmware update for x-t1. I’ve got a dead pixel that need attention 🙂
I’ve got two! Pixel mapping would be great.
Please please please cost no more than an X-T1 rrp.
You already know it’s going to cost more
There is no way it will be cheep as X-T1 $1900 US I think? Save now.
It would be nice if they would come out with a new, high capacity battery someday. Even if it’s just to 1500mah
They can’t sell you an extra-cost plain handgrip anymore… so this way they can sell you a battery grip instead…
I don’t get it
Yay, grain effect! Because we Fuji users just love living in the past! Let’s hope they provide a dedicated control dial for it, because we also love lots and lots of dials!
Better noise reduction isn’t a big deal: I find ISO6400 very useable already with the existing xtrans processor. Much more valuable to have the ability to shoot up to crazy high ISOs like the Sonys. Unfortunately rumoured max ISO for this camera is 12800.
which /to me/ (emphasize to me) is already crazy high iso – but that’s me
Not only they are doubling the maximum ISO, they are also increasing the resolution of the sensor, which should have negatively impacted the noise levels. In order to maintain 2x higher ISO 12800 they have to decrease the noise by more than 2x.
Better noise reduction hopefully means a solution to the high-ISO waxy skintones.
Hope those lossless compressed files will finally be stored as DNGs right in camera like Leica and Pentax have been offering for some time now. It’s 2016 and there is really no need for all these closed proprietary file formats making workflows more difficult than necessary.
Genuine question : which software uses DNG (aside from Adobe own soft)
C1 has improved support since the last release (mostly to make it easy to migrate archives from Adobe software), and pretty much all programs that use one of the open source raw reading libraries/dcraw can work with it. DaVinci Resolve has pretty good CinemaDNG support as well.
But currently it’s simply not very attractive for software companies to support DNG since few cameras actually generate them. But I’m quite sure that software developers would much rather put resources into actual features than into supporting and keeping up with hundreds of proprietary file formats and reverse-engineering and guessing the meaning of all fields, which are occasionally even encrypted on purpose to make this process harder. It also means chances are higher of being able to access files once software companies start dropping support for raw files from older or more exotic cameras.
Ultimately, I believe everyone would benefit from agreeing on one standard instead of wasting resources on proprietary file formats.
Becareful what you wish for… Judging by the files from Leica’s Q DNG has it’s fair amount of problems, just like Fuji’s RAFs. Especially in high DR and high contrast shots there can be nasty artefacts.
Artifacts are not an inherent problem of a file format, but with the sensor or the way the image data from the sensor is encoded (such as lossy compression, see Sony). If you compare a proprietary raw file and a version that is converted to DNG, the actual image data is actually byte for byte identical in both files (unless you enabled the “Linearize” option, which performs demosaicing, or compression). It’s just the container and the way metadata is encoded that differs. With a lossless DNG, you should NOT see additional artifacts unless there is some kind of software bug.
Good to know, thanks! I was under the impression, DNG uses some lossy protocols, hence causing artifacts.
There is indeed a lossy compression option in Adobe software that they use to implement their Smart Previews, but it’s more or less a DCT-based compression, very similar to JPEG. They let you apply this lossy compression when you convert to DNG if you choose to, but I would strongly recommend against using it on important images.
Not with X-Trans, no. It will almost certainly continue to be proprietary.
The sensor offering 273 af points means it’s an entirely new one, right?
I mean, the Sony A6000 had like 170 af points, so the fears Fuji could get stuck with 2013 tech were wrong?
that’s what I understand
Hmmm, it’s also not the same tech as the Sony A7r II. The number of focus points could be from an outcut of that 42 Mpix sensor, but the resolution doesn’t fit – the Sony offers ‘only’ 18 Mpis in APS-C mode.
I was also thinking, Fuji might strike a deal with Samsung to use the sensor from the NX1, but it has 28 Mpix, not the 24 we think the XPro2 will have. It also offers less af points at 209.
Could Fuji actually be the first to use a brand new sensor?
they could, but they (probably) aren’t.
I guess we are either seeing the the IMX210 or IMX193.
Fuji didn’t go with a new sensor the last time either. They took a design, that had proofed itself reliable (and outstanding) and worked their CFA magic there.
Guess we will see the same thing happen again.
People still think that sensor tech is the most important thing, when in reality the whole image processing chain has to be set up perfectly. (that’s why most Nikon/Pentax/Fuji cameras perform better with the same sensor as the sonys do)
Maybe IMX271?
Sony Exmor (FSI not BSI) sensor with 24MP and super fast read out (and theoretically up to 19fps full sensor read out, so it could be 4k capable)
edit: sorry, just saw the disqus preview and thought this was a question. Of course I meant the IMX271 and not the IMX193.
But I am not aware of any camera using the IMX271 yet.
The A7rII uses copper wire transfer circuitry, instead of the more common aluminum. It provides faster throughput and less heat, which translates to less noise. It’s actually more effective than just BSI architecture.
I’m just guessing, but I’d bet money we’ll see the new X-Pro 2 sensor using this technology, which will instantly catapult it to the top of the APS-C pack. I imagine Sony will use it as well in their follow-up to the A6000.
Actually, a new process is a problem most of the time, since it introduces more noise. athat goes for chopper especially, since it has to isolated. We are still talking mostly analog devices, that’s why we are at 65/180nm and not 14nm like Intel/Samsung/TSMC could do.
But sure, chopper is newer and a new process gives more choises (for example onsensor adcs instead of external, or faster read out)
That’s why Toshiba produces Nikon sensors on 65nm chopper since 2012 (Samsung since 2014) and Nikon has been switching back and forth between Sony and Toshiba and nobody noticed..
BSI is (with the pixel pitch of current models) mostly marketing, so if you want to habe the best specs, you need a sony camera 😉
no. Take a look at the X-T1. The Firmware update increased the amount of focus points form 49 to 77.
The amount of focal points is not in the specifications of the basic sensor.
And don’t fear the 2013 tech – Fuji has shown, that they improve the basic sensor (as does Nikon). CFA, microlenses – the whole imaging pipeline is important.
If it were the A6000 sensor, I would bet my X-T1, that it delivers better results (furthermore the A6000 sensor still is one of the best APS-C sensors)
This is a Fuji fanboy rationalization in my opinion. Yes, Fuji can take an old sensor from the A6000 and, years later, improve upon the IQ. Why can’t they do the same thing with the latest sensor technology? And the whole “Fuji wants to make sure it has a reliable track record” argument doesn’t hold water for me either. What top-end Sony sensor has turned out to be a dud in recent years?
how many experience do you and I have with designing (and altering) sensors?
And what exactly are you expecting?
And what are you using it for? (I don’t really print larger than 1m diagonal more than once a quarter)
edit: and I think it was Thom Hogan who said, that it probably took Fuji half a year to implement the X-Trans in the best way possible. If Fuji would get a new Sony sensors early – sure, they could do it do.
But which new Sony sensor are we even talking about?!
I don’t have any expectations. I have a concern. My concern is that Fuji is going to choose a sensor that does not fully employ the technological advances found in the latest generation of Sony sensors. Given that Fuji has, to this point, committed to a single sensor for a long period of time I would rather they not start out behind the curve.
Now you ask a valid question about the sensor I’m referring to. I think it is reasonable to imagine that Sony has in their pipeline an APS-C sensor that employs the tech that debuted in the latest full frame A7 models. I would view it as a real shame if Sony introduces the A7000 with a new sensor a month after Fuji has locked in an outdated sensor for what could be a three year cycle. Yes, one could reasonably argue that folks have waited long enough for the X-Pro2; that the A6000’s sensor isn’t bad; that it is better than what we have now. For me, this is a “good enough” vs “as good as possible” argument. I always choose “as good as possible”. I would gladly wait an extra 6 months for “as good as possible”. You might not.
As for printing, I routinely print quite large so I would definitely welcome more megapixels. I’m limited to 24″ on the short side by my printer though I do produce triptychs to get around this limitation for some work. That said, I’m not imagining that the next gen Sony APS-C sensor will necessarily have more megapixels than 2013 edition. I am imagining a significant increase in the readout speed of the sensor which will offer benefits for both video and electronic shutter. I’m imagining somewhat improved noise performance. And I’m imagining it will offer a higher ceiling in terms of AF improvement.
People need to let go of the A6000 sensor meme. It is not the sensor from the A6000. Think A7rII sensor in a 24mp APS-C configuration. Put another way: the most advanced APS-C sensor that’s yet been released, which should punch well above its weight class.
To be clear, I never said that it was. I said that I hoped it wasn’t. The A7rII sensor in a 24mp configuration is exactly what I’m asking for.
Then you’ll be happy.
I love Sonys marketing. They “introduced” BSI and now everyone “needs” to have it. How big is the improvement? And where does it go? (noise, dynamic?)
Thing is: the difference is really, really small. And if you want best technology, buy an iPhone (or Sony/samsung smartphone).
Not only is it the better implementation of BSI (stacked), but it also features embedded CFA, deep trench isolation and other cools stuff, that most here probably don’t even know about.
We have reached a high level (Quantum efficiency) and will not see huge improvements.
All this whining about sensor just points out, that people are too concerned with their gear and don’t take enough photos.
And why do we always compare sensors only? Canon sensors are the worst of all available and still: with good glas (and a good photographer) they deliver outstanding results.
Furthermore (as said) it’s about the whole image pipeline, not just the sensor. (again, you can see this with smartphones and compacts). And then, a camera is much more than it’s sensor (or even than it’s imaging pipeline)..
Didn’t mean to sound like I was whining, umad (or hostile, for that matter). My point remains the same and Canon is the perfect example. How much better would their products be if they used a modern sensor design? I shoot primarily landscapes and I found myself constantly limited by the noise and dynamic range of their outdated sensors. Red pattern noise in the shadows drove me crazy. I would still be shooting Canon if not for their sensors. Yet despite this reality, you can find Canon fanboys arguing, “it isn’t *that* much of a difference.” And “DR is only one aspect of IQ.” These are similar arguments to the ones you are making and, like your arguments, they ignore the fact that, regardless of what else Canon or Fuji is doing right in the image pipeline, improving the performance of the sensor will improve the final output.
I have no doubt that in some areas the advancement of sensor tech has been so incremental that it doesn’t matter. I’m not convinced that is true of all areas. I already mentioned two: sensor read out speeds and AF capabilities. I would expect more than incremental improvements here since 2013.
thing is: there are no real improvements happening in technology right now. They are happening in marketing.
And people keep talking about “same sensor as A6000”. What does this even mean?
Does it mean it uses the same sensor? or is made at the same fab? or uses the same cfa? or the same microlenses? or does the read technology tell us whats “same”? Or all of the above – are sensors the same, when everything is the same even the part number?
273 total WOW…Fuji is moving in the right direction….If only the X-T2 could have the 1/8000 shutter and IBIS. I would definitely move completely to Fuji… Oh and AWESOME flash HSS off camera…
Agreed on flash, and the camera is shaping up to be a gem. I’d love the same functionality Canon and Nikon provide their customers with reference to flash. Again it’s a great tool option, and really a must for a dedicated segment of enthusiasts and pro’s. I saw a video once with the manager of Fuji openly admiring the auto focus system of the Canon 7D Mk II. If that was their benchmark to aim for then at least we know they are working on achieving a good standard.
I was the same video, Fuji management stated they really liked what Canon did with the 7D2…I think that is where the X-t2 will be going.
was = Saw
Yeaahhhh. The specs of the xpro2 are … boring.
Hopefully there is a bit more, we waited too long for that.
Concern troll much?
Nice Try, but no, i like Fuji a lot…
I learned a long time ago specs don’t translate to better pictures. So I don’t care about specs. I can’t wait to see this camera. i can see myself upgrading to it in a couple of years. I just hope the AF performs much better (I currently use an X1)
This was done deliberately to give you time to hone your skills so you can perplex the world with breathtaking images
Does this mean we currently have lossy compression?
no. we have no compression at all (you can see that with the file size).
Which means maybe a faster processor?
that’s a given
the question is: what magic will that processor do? 🙂
Well good news on keeping the same batteries, so I won’t have to throw away my collection from the X-T1! And also good about RAF compression. When my Fuji X files are bigger in size than my Nikon D810 RAW files, I have to laugh.
Still no confirmation on the sensor? We’re all assuming some sort of modified Sony 24mp sensor…
Admin can you ask how many of 273 focus points are PHASE DETECT points? That’s what matters. And what area they consume.
2/3 of the sensor are phase detection
is this “new information” (together with the AF point amount) or old? (i think I remember this being mentioned).
Anyway, that would put us at ~180 phase detection points
new information. Previous information was just “more than 200 AF points, 2/3 are Phase Detection”
Funny, it took them quite a bit to extrapolate that number.
I could have calculated it long ago:
179 * 3 / 2
I know you get your AF point count from the A6000. Thing is: that one covers more than 2/3 of the sensor, but only has 25 CDAF points
As far as I know PDAF is sensor based and CDAF is firmware based. So they could use a6000 sensor with 179 PDAF points and add 94 CDAF points with better software.
as I said elsewhere:
“have said elsewhere:
number of AF points says nothing since:
1. only 2/3 are pdaf (that would put the fuji around 180) and two:
2. for each af point there are thousands of af pixels on the sensor, you can vary the af points with firmware
Anyway: even if it has the same sensels as the A6000, there are many ways to vary (cfa, microlenses, readout, gain, processing, compression) and the sensor will most likely deliver differently to the A6000 🙂 “
Very good that’s much better than previous cameras.
For me it is not the number of focus points but how they are spread out across the image. I realize this is a technical challenge but it would be nice if we got PDAF out at the edges of the frame.
This all sounds like nice features, not that I care about file size when storage is cheap. Hardly use the menu either so no big deal there…. I am sure the focus points will be of high quality, it’s not necessarily the number but how well they perform (but I welcome more). NOW……. If we can just stuff all this in the new X100 AND release it by Summer THAT will make me truly happy
Finally we have the Fuji A6000.. Cough Cough…
With a much better build. Have you ever picked up a Sony A6000? It’s mostly plastic.
a camera is more than a sensor.. and even on the old sensors fuji gets a better image quality than sony itself..
why are sony fanboys even here on the site? this isn’t a competition where we try to attack people who made other choices for their ideal camera. no other manufactorer has similar annoying fans as sony.. just take your pictures with your sony, we take it with our fuji and we both are happy.
They’re just jealous that the Sony sensors that are used in Fuji cameras are better implemented in the Fujis — and have better optics — than the Sony equivalents. lol.
i am happy for everyone who finds a camera, that fills their needs.. i dont care if it’s a fuji, olypus, panasonic, sony, pentax, samsung, nikon or canon.. or even Leica..
I found the system i can work the best with on Fujifilm cameras. I like the manual control. And EVERYONE who testes Fuji Aps-c against Sony Aps-c came to the conclusion that Fuji had the better Image Quality. If you shoot action or wildlife you probably get a sony.. which suits better to your needs. I dont need that fast AF.
sony users are basically the only ones that hate on other manufactors..like if my choice has an impact on his photography. I had the sony a6000 in my hands.. i tested the OM-D M5. had the Nikon D7200 and the Canon 70D .. everyone had their benefits.. but i fell in love with the X100T .. I couldnt afford a fixed lens camera for that price, so i got the X-T10 and hope to get the same Viewfinder on the XPro2
Even if the Sony A7000 or A6100 gets the officially best Image Quality for the best price and gets a whole set of new lenses better than anythink from fuji.. i still would keep with my fuji, because i like the handling and enjoy the act of shooting with it..
Agreed. But I don’t think Sony will ever catch up to Fuji when it comes to lens selection and overall optical quality of the line. Lens quality is at least as important as sensor sensitivity to the final result.
What does 273 focus point look like? Fuji cameras’ focus points already cover almost all of the screen…
Will it come with the 35mm Mk2 as the ‘kit lens’?
Only reason I ask is that is the lens we have seen in the leaked images.
It would be a cool package. I’m not sure why they would offer a silver version of the lens and not a silver X Pro 2 to go with it? A silver lens on a graphite version would look awkward IMO.
I have the silver version on my black camera and i think is looks good.. i dont like the design of that lens at all. but as a silver highlight on a camera it is a view catcher and i love it this way.. something unique in this combo
As a 95% JPEG shooter, ‘Grain Effect’ sounds very promising to me. I just hope it comes for the X-E2 through firmware! 🙂
Sony a6000 has 179 PDAF points
~2/3*273 = ~182
I guess ~2/3 of 273 will be Fuji’s marketing way to hide the fact that X-Pro2 is based on a two years old sensor.
Anyway, other than the focus points, aren’t these all firmware?:
Lossless RAW compression
Improved Noise Reduction
Pixel Mapping
Grain Effect
New Menu Interface
Ahh, wait, I forgot an important non-firmware feature:
“much cooler name – “X-processor””
Some sell milk, others make chocolate out of it.
Following the chocolate allegory. Fuji’s chocolate factory reminded me this story :
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/12/mast-brothers-chocolate-scandal
apply water to burned area! Nice one
Please, enlighten us: how exactly are those AF points implemented? On which area? How many CDAF points are there for each PDAF point?
Is the phase detection from sony or fuji?
All I’m saying is that PDAF points are probably hardware depended, contrast detection points are more fluid and can be implemented anywhere on the sensor by sampling the sensor and calculating contrast while alternating the focus.
The 2/3 phrasing sounds a bit suspicious, why don’t they specify the number like other manufactures?
I guess that looking at the a6000 will answer most of your questions.
Final algorithm can be optimized by Fuji, theoretically, they can implement a focus algorithm that will be faster than d800
yes, PDAF points are hardware depended. That’t why the X-T1 went from 9 to 15 with a firmware update 😉
There are hundreds of thousands of pdaf pixels. And those can be read out/interpreted differently. I don’t think that we see the A6000 AF system on the Fuji, since Fuji holds dozens of patents on onsensor pdaf. (they were one of /the first to implement it)
Even if we see some IMX210 (A6000) sensor in the X-Pro2 I suspect that it
1. uses a different focusing system
2. will perform differently
PDAF are hardware dependent. Fuji unlock them via FW upgrades.
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/2151234617/fujifilmpd
http://3.static.img-dpreview.com/files/p/E~articles/2151234617/diagram.jpeg?v=3435
as I said: there are hundreds of thousands semi masked !pixels! (PDAF pixels). How many and in which way you put those together for you PDAF !!!POINT!!! is firmware based 😉
I’d like to see more reliable AF-C than just some more points. Also, I think Fuji just group these differently than they used to be.
again: Fuji was the first to implement OSPDAF in a mainstream product. They know quite a bit about phase detection. There are different ways to implement PDAF (as there are different CFAs or microlenses too).
I guess with the new sensor (faster read out) and a better processor, we will see a dramatic increase in AF-C performance – at least with the right lenses!
Based on its poor performance in AF-C so far, I believe any improvement would be dramatic.
No, you can only focus as fast as the sensor pumps data out. So theoretically the A6000 can’t be as fast as the D800.
Common now, we all know that high or low AF performance isn’t directly tied to the sensor’s filter array alone. The ability for the processor to selectively and efficiently read out the data from the specific PDAF sensor pixels is hugely relevant here. AF total performance is closely related to the advancement of the software/firmware right? And PDAF focusing performance is directly tied to sensor size correct? Therefore you would be acting like a total “dumbo” if you try to decouple the processor and its firmware advancements from the sensor.
The new processor will be faster than the old processor in the same way that XTrans 2 is faster than XTrans 1. This probably means faster AF, quicker continuous, and shorter EVF blackout.
It has to be, since there are 50% more pixels to process.
It’s not a two year old sensor. But hey, keep on being negative and sarcastic – you’ll go far in life.
Could you say how you know it’s not a two year old sensor? There is much discussion about whether we’ll see a new sensor or the two year old A6000 sensor.
Just very careful analysis of all the facts, including some that most aren’t aware of. Another 10 days or so and you’ll see.
I am waiting patiently.
Fuji know how much is riding on this camera for the original adopters. I am convinced that they will pile as much in as they economically can justify without eroding the experience of shooting with it.
While I (and my clients) like what the XP1, X100s & X-T1 can produce, I’ll be trading it in, most likely, for a uniform button layout on my work cameras which will become a pair of XP2’s with the 100t or its successor for my ‘everyday’ walkabout.
A pixel bump will help a little and better ISO/noise also. I shoot raw so space saving is OK with lossless but cards are cheap.
Dual cards will be a blessing too along with pixel mapping. I had to pay to have one fixed in my 1st C-T1 a while ago. This should not be chargeable (about £65) if it’s easily implemented in software.
So, you are a pro…Do you have a website, where one can see the pictures, you need two X Pro 2’s for in the future?
Having two bodies is a fairly common thing. Why so suspicious?
Its in his profile. Don’t be so hostile.
Appreciate the support. Thank you.
My site is http://www.rupertmarlow.com for work and my blog containing travel photography is here: https://rupertmarlow.exposure.co
As a more thorough answer, I shoot with primes only so two cameras is a way of having 2 options. Picking up another camera is quicker than swopping lenses.
Primes mean you have to be more considerate with framing and gives a consistency anticipating framing and to the images they produce.
It also means you have an ‘active spare’.
Most weddings for me are covered at 35(23) and 85(56)mm with 21(14) in the bag. I keep 50(35) too for the occasional shot as it’s light. Whole wedding kit in a small shoulder bag. 5 batteries for each camera.
Currently I use an X100s and XT1. With XP1 ‘just in case’ – usually just with 14mm on. Different batteries, different buttons on all 3 is a bit of a pain.
I had my sensor mapped for free (within warranty) and got an camera for the time of the repair. Fuji Germany that was.
Mine was out of warranty. Sorry, should have said.
Patiently waiting for the new x100 with 24mp. Don’t need OVF & bigger size/weight of the Pro2…
Your post raises mr a question: what will you do about X100’s next version OVF?
Will you keep or refuse it?
16MP #sarcasm
Well well. I will wait for the new X100…
Any idea When it could be released ?
about in 2017 between january to november
Well i think it will be before that
I’m still curious about the viewfinder toggle. The X100S has a left-sided toggle design because it is only pulled, but the X100T went back to a centered design because you could move it in either direction. Assuming it gets the EVF patch from the X100T, why does the the Pro 2 have a non-centered design?
pixel mapping?
In projection mapping or video to led conversions I know what it means but as a term for an input processing I have no clue, anyone knows what they mean?
map out defect single pixels (dead/stuck pixels)
Sometimes a pixel will get stuck. They show up as a white spot and just need cloning out.
Pixel mapping finds them and remembers their location and approximates what the colour value should be from the pixels around it.
Some cameras have it built in. Until this rumour (which I hope is true) it was a paid service by Fuji to remove them and in the UK, very over priced at about £65 I think.
I have only had 2, both on my 1st XT1. They are annoying once you find them but don’t cause an issue in many images.
Would be a nice little feature though.
Seen the X-E2s-story, how sure we won’t see the same old 16MP appearing in the X-Pro2? When I read through the rumored specs, there’s not one line about a new 24MP sensor in the ‘trusted’ section…? A first disappointment is that Fuji will stick to that Panasonic NP-W126 – other camera brands use 30-50% more powerful batteries in an almost identical form factor. I consider the extra batteries to carry as a serious hurdle and had hoped Fuji would revisit the battery-ergonomics. More and more I get the feeling this X-Pro2 is nothing else than an X-T1-kind of refurbishing of the old X-Pro1-concept and I really wouldn’t be surprised there’s nothing more to expect than 16MP…!
Trusted source says 273 AF points, which is different from the current 16MP sensor. Trusted also says new, faster processor. Both those things run counter to it being just an X-T1 refresh of the X-Pro2.
X-Pro1(S)??
There was a leaked 24 megapixel image taken shortly after the Paris attack taken on an X-Pro 2. I think Patrick pulled the post.
Even if it were 16MP (fine by me), I would be extremely surprised if it were the same sensor.
16MP will not happen. The 24MP A6000 or hopefully the new A6100 sensor (36MP BSI). http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr3-sony-a6100-si-shipping-in-march-rumored-to-feature-a-new-36mp-bsi-sensor/
Genuinely hoping it’s a new BSI sensor, then we might get anywhere near the dynamic range of current cutting edge models. I love my X-T1, but my A7rii absolutely kills it in terms of noise and particularly dynamic range. That BSI sensor is a marvel.
thing is: both the D810 as well as D7200 have higher maximum dynamic range according to DXO
BSI is not the saviour that many believe it to be (that’s just Sonys marketing for making money)
They did manage to equal the noise level of the D810 with 10 more MP and if you down size to 12mp it matches the noise levels of the A7s2
yes, they did. And the D810 uses a sensel design from 2010 – similar to those in the Fuji. So we have 20% improvement within 5 years.
Now we compare the K5 (same sensel again) with some new non BSI sensors (like the one in the D7200 or A6000) and notice – there is about 20% increase too.
So if a FSI sensor gives us 20% performance boost within 5 years and so does a BSI sensor over FSI this comes down to what?
BSI was necessary for Sony, since their mount is pretty small and they have problems with angled rays. That’s one point, where BSI does have some performance benefits 😉
Wow, what a negative whiner. Camera hasn’t even been announced yet, and already you’re trashing it.
fyi: Your conclusions are wrong.
24MP…. trusted
Pixel mapping is a really useful feature. I had it on a very early Olympus compact. I’ve always wondered why this isn’t standard on every camera body. I’ve never owned one that didn’t need remapping after a year or two of use.
I didn’t even notice they didn’t! Lol!
Fuji really needs to hire some battery engineers worth their salt. Let’s look at some pros and cons of the NP-W126
Pros:
– Still thinking
Cons:
– No accuracy at all in telling us the remaining charge.
– Can easily be inserted the wrong way. With Nikon a quick glance was enough, with Fuji you need to look closely.
– Rather high discharge when left idle for a while.
– Rather small. I’d be okay with that if it had better capacity.
Pros:
– Thought of one: they’re shaped as cuboids so they can easily be stacked. Since you’ll need a lot of them this is useful 😉
Fuji, do your homework! You obviously did it with lossless RAW (finally), new noise reduction without waxy skin (finally) and pixel mapping. Now it’s time for batteries.
I agree with you. 450 shots per charge for a “pro” model should be where it’s at when using the EVF.
So many sarcastic and negative comments… Im super excited! If i could pre order today, then i would.
But
battery = should be more powerful or hopefully xpro2 should use it more economically
Would have expected IBIS
Needs to have much faster focus right out of the gate as otherwhise it will get slammed by critics
Still no sign of AE bracketing > +-1 stop. Please Fuji now hard can that be to implement.
Every rumor has me wanting this camera more, which is a problem. I can’t spend anymore money on “personal cameras”.
Need better lowlight AF, down to -2/-3 EV preferably (it’s now +0.5 EV for X-T1 FW 4.0).
aren’t we at -2EV already?
Highest sensitivity FW 3.0 is +2,5 EV. Since FW 4.0 +0,5 EV.
Nikon D750 -3 EV
I think panasonics GX series can go down to -5ev
it’s -4EV and that’s at an higher ISO rating than the D750. (which would put the on par if normalized)
Well I said I think! Close enough! Geez! 4x better vs 0.5+
it’s 0.5Ev with phase detection (which panasonic does have phase detection to compare it to?). With cdaf Fuji is way below 0 too 😉
I don’t know what fujis CDAF is rated down to? Do you?
afaik it’s -1 or -2EV
I dunno. I don’t remember reading about it. Lol
that’s pdaf. With cdaf (which is what most mirrorless manufacturers quote) it should be -2
thing is: with those tiny pixels, phase detection is very hard to achieve at -3EV. That’s why they also have to improve on contrast detection
http://www.amazon.com/Fujifilm-Mirrorless-Digital-3-0-Inch-Resistant/dp/B00HYAL88W/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1451947799&sr=8-3&keywords=fuji+x-t1 Prices just shot back up $300 on the x-t1 body. Sign of things to come?
anything about the sensor? anything???? Bueller? not really going to be happy with a 2 year old Sony A6000 sensor, particularly if this cost 3x what an A6000 cost
where is your problem with the A6000 sensor? And which better option are there?
He is asking for a better sensor than the one in a $499 (Sony A6000) camera for a camera that we expect will cost above $ 1,300. What is wrong with that?
Closer to above $1,500 imho…
and he will get better image quality than from that 499$ camera.
he will also get a real camera and not some plastic toy 😉
Too each their own. They would be shooting them selves in the foot if it where to be the A6000 sensor.
if you say so…
we don’t want a6000 sensor ok? if i pay over1500 usd it has to be unique
then don’t buy it.
And as we see in the Specs, it has an X-Trans III Sensor 😉
i am happy with my Xt-1 and if x pro-2 has a6000 sensor i am not going to buy 😉 i will wait for Xt-2 or medium format fuji camera.
X-T2 will most likely have the same sensor.
And again, what does “has A6000” sensor even mean? It won’t be the exactly same chip and results of the whole system will very likely outperform the A6000 system easily
The a6000 only has 179 and what rumor says we have 273 for x-pro2 so they are not same i guess. Fuji people wants a sensor that can mess with full frame cameras in every aspect. A6000 sensor is good but not a legend. Fuji has to produce this if he wants to hold their customers.
i don’t want second hand sensor from Sony that’s it.
as I have said elsewhere:
number of AF points says nothing since:
1. only 2/3 are pdaf (that would put the fuji around 180) and two:
2. for each af point there are thousands of af pixels on the sensor, you can vary the af points with firmware
Anyway: even if it has the same sensels as the A6000, there are many ways to vary (cfa, microlenses, readout, gain, processing, compression) and the sensor will most likely deliver differently to the A6000 🙂
What in your opinion is a real camera?
´´plastic toy“? i don´t think that is the level we should be discussing this.
Yes, plastic toy. Here is mine (next to my beer ;))
Build quality is bad, as are the viewfinder and the handling. But focus with the 16-50 is fast an the camera is compact
real camera has good viewfinder and handling, not only specs. just my opinion
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/214b31edf27307010b09b369b51697c5525a71c720a11e8a9267e6f1f0ae88d4.jpg
It’s expected that Sony will update the A6000 sensor to an APS-C variant of their BSI tech (as seen in the A7rii) in the A6000 replacement.
I understand the comment that it seems unfair to pay top dollar prices for what would, essentially, be out of date sensor tech if the old A6000 sensor were used.
and how would he notice, the sensor beeing outdated? What would this new, speculated sensor be able to do, that the current one is not?
Faster read out speeds for one. It would kind of be sad if it’s not a BSI sensor. I’d prefer the 28mp Samsung sensor over the A6000 sensor personally.
the read out alone isn’t really connected to the position of the photodiots. Take a look at the Nikon 1 series. They have a FSI sensor (until the newest version) and the read out is incredible.
Fast read out is, however connected with heat and heat equals noise. That’s why manufacturers don’t increase it rapidly.
Bsi on the other side improves fill factor. With the current poxels, fill factor is high anyway and there is not much to improve. What bsi does, is bring more mony into the manufaturers purse, since it’s much more expensive (that is why Sony is making it the next big thing, but Nikon (D5, D810 sucessor) for example will probably stay on FSI since it delivers similar results, while being cheaper)
my only problem is age and price. it’s over 2 years old and you can buy a camera using it for $500. now the X-pro2 will be a better camera than the A6000 for sure but the ultimate image quality will not be 3x better but it will cost 3x more. If I’m going to plunk down $1,800 I want a new sensor, not something Sony is about to discard
Don’t worry guys. This completely new and advanced sensor will smoke the Phase One XF.
Lol
Don’t think we get the “old” a6000 sensor since it has more AF points already. The a6000 only has 179.
Check it here: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-alpha-a6000/2
Patrick already said only 2/3 of that is PDAF, meaning the extra points are CDAF.
It will be a Leica SL killer ! Trusted !
Hi everyone. I have a friend from Fujifilm Europe and he just told me that Fujifilm
X-pro2 will not have Sony A6000 old sensor. It will be new technology sensor.