Image courtesy Optyczne
The polish site Optyczne was present at the London press conference from Sony. They report:
During the presentation the speaker pointed out the continuous development of Sony Alpha DSLR system and emphasized that despite strong offensive on the mirrorless market cameras with a translucent mirror are not forgotten.
The sideshow title was “Sony maintains commitment to A-mount“.
Yesterday Sony showed the two new A-mount lenses and their two new 30x cameras at the event (See image samples at Fotopolis). There was no “hint” at all about a possible new A-mount camera coming soon. For all we know new E-mount and RX cameras “only” are coming in May-June.
New A and E-mount lens preorders:
Sony 24-70mm f/2.8 ZA SSM II at Amazon, BHphoto and at Adorama.
Sony 16-35mm f/2.8 ZA SSM II at Amazon, BHphoto and at Adorama.
Zeiss Batis 85mm f/1.8 lens at Adorama, Bhphoto.
Zeiss Batis 25mm f/2.0 lens at Adorama, Bhphoto.
292 Responses
I guess that clears up the question of whether Sony reads SAR…
They read me. But they should more than that. Hope A99II will bring back some enthusiasm to the A-mount community.
Not just one A-mount FF camera. Sony must develop a 1DX/D4S competitor alongside a true response against the D810 and D750.
I just hope that when they do, they do a similar thing as with the A7 series. Some people clearly want a crazy high resolution model. I’d love an updated 24, or perhaps 36Mpix version. I’m excited that with the latest lenses, it’s looking very likely that something is coming though!
I hope so too! I miss the old days before the E-mount… 😉
All there is a firmware-update on the Alpha roadlist for 2015?
I think that’s the 2014-15 year. The 2015-16 year isn’t shown…
Because it does not exist for A-mount? Sorry, couldn’t resist 😉
It is simple, Sony sees a timeframe of oppotunity they cannot miss to dominate the mirrorless market segment and to make sure Canikon won’t even thinking of putting full commitement into the mirrorless market, thus they will have to move their man power to focus on the E/FE mount as a priority, becasue they know, if they relentlessly allocate most of their resources to just A mount alone, they will miss the oppotunity in mirroless while won’t be able to tackle Canikon effectively
As plans go, it’s working so far. Still no sign of Canon getting serious and the longer they leave, the more ground they’ll have to make up.
Exactly, and more successful they are in mirrorless, the less relevant A-mount becomes.
Agreed. It would in fact be reckless of them to invest more manpower into A-mount.
The Zeiss partnership is also proving to be golden.
id agree they should focus on fe, but they should be doing more with a mount because it looks like at best they are neglecting that line alot, and they are losing market share there, and you cant really feel comfortable recommending a mount now over canikon. and the really stupid thing is sony has 95% of the ingredients there to make great camera and lenses for a mount, but they dont.
Im sure they could arrange things with 3rd party lens makers to produce stuff like the sigma 120-300 in a mount, with or without a sony label, and zeisses manual focus lenses too like the otus.
and to say that new a mount bodies arent vaiable why is pentax releasing way more bodies?
that image showing a99, a58, a77 is just funny, one camera a year 😀 ? is it too much to just a put a developped sensor for a7r or a7s and create those new a99r/s for the sad A mount guys 😀 ?
They are remembered, for only firmware updates.
It will be great if they still willing to firmware update the A77ii
To be honest, I kept complaining about Sonys lackluster A-mount performance, but have not for quite a while. In terms of cameras, the only thing really missing would be a r/s option for the A99 or in my wet dreams also A77II.
Appart of that I stopped complaining completely. My current setup is more than enough for me and I am often able to outperform the image quality of a friend which shoots with the Nikon D800 while I do with the A77. The simple reason – the camera is just too much for him and he cant use it right. So why bother? Just go out and use the camera you have, learn to use it well and make nice pictures. Sony will definetly not abandon us, I think thats pretty clear now.
Sony, if you’re reading this site, you must develop D4S, D810 and D750 competitors with A-mount and release mid-tier F4 lenses (14-24, 24-105, 70-200, 300) as alternatives to current F2.8 lenses to increase number of options available followed by a set of fullframe F2 lenses (28, 35, 50, 100) and new macros that don’t extend when focusing towards 1:1
Not everyone can buy a 3000USD 70-200/2.8 but you can offer a good priced 70-200/4 for those people who want high end optics with good speed for their a77II or a99.
Perhaps you would be better off switch to Nikon – it already has D4s, D810, D750 and affordable F4 zooms and F1.8/F2 primes.
Why would they develop something that already exists (Nikon, Canon) and in a market that is in a steep decline?
Sony is the only player (other than $$$ Leica) in the full frame compact non-DSLR market. Their partnership with Zeiss is even more valuable here, because Zeiss adds to that image.
I really don’t understand why people keep whining for manufacturer A to be like manufacturer B. Just sell your shit and buy manufacturer B then, if it already exists!
Exactly. I, no doubt like many here used to shoot canon until I heard about then bought into the a7 series. Now I have no reason to or interest in looking back.
Simply put, Canon & Nikon can’t be beat on their territory. Which is fine, because all signs point to a mirrorless future. .
Sony, just telling to you, that I’m waiting for new a99II and going to buy two bodies…
as a wedding photographer, I need a great camera and lasting battery power. I hope the SONY can hear complaints comrades who wanted some new FF A-Mount camera . Emulate as well as other brand
Sony should know that just saying so.. Doesn’t mean anything..
They have never said something and not do it…
They haven’t really said what they’re going to do, though. Sony have said they will continue to develop and are committed to A-mount, that’s it.
That’s open to very wide interpretation.
They said they’re committed to a-mount. They wouldn’t show or mention the words “maintains commitment to a-mount” and not be committed.
Name a year where Sony did not release a single a-mount camera and lens while the hype of e-mount was on the rise…temporarily.
I know what they said. But you have to wonder what they mean by committed. Committed to updating existing lenses? Committed to firmware updates? Committed to new bodies? They have made no firm promises of any kind whatsoever.
The entire system as a whole is all they need to say without leaking out/spoiling too much excitement.
But they haven’t said that, have they?
They showed. Why else would they have a slide that shows at least one body per year, at least one to two lenses (updated or new) per year, and that they still do firmware updates.. What else needs to go on there?
Bodies need to go on there!!! Did you not see the big gap in 2015? I’m not expecting them to give info away, but there isn’t even a hint of a future body.
What big gap? Between 2012-2013-2014-2015…it looks like the gaps are pretty evenly split to me….
Answer this: has Sony ever NOT been committed to releasing a single camera each year and minimum one lens update/or new each year?
There’s nothing in the 2015 spot right now because they haven’t announced anything yet! We still have more than half the year left of 2015, my friend….
In the past, they always showing some prototype or roadmap to backup their claim
But now they haven’t show anything yet.
As a wedding photographer, I need a big camera and lasting battery power. I hope the SONY can hear complaints of my comrades and hope the Sony can producing more Full Frame camera of A-mount. Emulate as well as other brand
It is just sad that they hold on the obsolete mirror… does not matter if it is translucent or reflective. It takes up space and weight and the SLT prisma also takes up light! I see no reason why they just don’t make a A99 sized E-Mount Full-Frame.
I suspect an A99 sized E-mount is inevitable.
I guess teh upcoming A9 will be like that. The A7ii is already pointing in that direction. Bigger, heavier but better ergonomics, especially with the bigger lenses.
Current Sony DSLT’s do not have a prisma anymore… it’s the same tech as in the NEX line-up, a small monitor.
And the mirror is useful if you like to have fast and reliable AF combined with best possible low-light performance of the sensor itself. That may be different in the future (near or far), but right now we just have an a6000 without mirror and good AF, but not with real low-light capabilities (like a a7s or Nikon D810 or even a Canon 6D)…
The technology is already here! Someone hast to put A6000 AF together with a7s tech and voilà…
“The sideshow title” LOL
Couldn’t have been more condescending if it was on purpose!
They should put more effort and support for existing sony gear users and make an firmware update for example for the old a77 or maybe a new translucent mirror with less light los for better high iso.
Many of people including myself think that everytime you buy a sony product the support for it will not last very long and it is dissapointing.
There are a lot of possibilites to improve older models as some people has allready started a sony hacking forum…
If Sony releases an A99II and it’s high res. I will gladly buy it.
A ghostly image of an A77II and no bodies in the 2015 section.
I think Sony might be using the word “commitment” very loosely.
And if they are committed, why would they do a minor update of these lenses, instead of something more substantial and interesting, like adding SSM and weather sealing to 135/1.8, or new and competitive 35/1.4, or perhaps play with old Minolta F2 lens designs…
Now they have two completely conflicting systems. One with innovative sensors, some amazing prime lenses, but lacking bright zooms and camera controls. Another with good ergonomics, but with single dated FF body (both sensor and AF), gaps in lens line-up and uncertain future.
That sums it up pretty good. To me, it shows pretty well the difference between a camera manufacturer and an consumer electronics giant.
They can’t play with old Minolta designs because KM didn’t sold them all the patents. That’s why there is no Sony Beercan or others.
I agree, but it cuts both ways. If they were really killing the system, why do any updates at all?
It feels like they are just keeping A-mount in a holding pattern. Not putting any significant resources into further development, marketing, new products. At the same time, applying the same minor re-fresh across their premium lenses, continuing to mention they are committed… just enough so that it is not totally completely dead.
If one was really paranoid – they might be doing this to string existing A-mount users along until E-mount is sufficiently developed (like bright native zooms, AF performance, cameras with better controls, better ergonomics and dual card slots, better LEAE adapter) for them to switch.
If one was REALLY paranoid – they updated the high end zooms to kill the re-sale prices of the used first generation models, so existing A-mount users are less eager to switch to CN! 🙂
There is something very suspicious about the refreshes. If they were really trying to make A-mount more appealing, and trying to sell more lenses… You would think, as you said, they would do better upgrading lenses that really NEED IT. Nobody was exactly complaining about the Zeiss 16-35 being dated. But as you mentioned the 35/1.4, it is an embarrassment.. one of the worst premium lenses made by anybody. The Zeiss 85 and 135 could use SSM and weather sealing updates. There is a real market for F4 zooms. So why are they simply refreshing lenses that nobody was complaining about, instead up new lenses and updating lenses that actually need updates?
Call me really paranoid… but I’m betting that “SSM2” will have better E-mount adaptability than SSM1, with some new mirrorless adapter on the horizon.
Think about it…. Sony releases something like an A9 — a “professional” FE camera… alongside a LEAE5 adapter, which suddenly opens up these SSM2 lenses for use on professional FE systems. (The main drawback of adapters is that you need to add an SLT mirror for fast AF.. what if you could use a simple spacing adapter, with no SLT mirror, and still get super fast AF on the A-mount Sony 2.8 trinity!)
Yes, this is pure speculation. I wouldn’t put down any money on my own theory. But it wouldn’t shock me, if in the end, these updates are more for the benefit of future FE.
Yes, that was my exact initial thought, but many here reject that possibility because of supposed impossibility to use DSLR lens designs for mirrorless because of heavy focusing element group.
If these updates really can do focus relatively fast with LEAE3 (without SLT) or future adapter without SLT, then it all makes sense. But if they are, Sony is not mentioning that anywhere, which adds to the confusion.
Yup…. This is PURE GUESSING…. But perhaps, they aren’t fast-compatible with LEAE3, but they will be fast-compatible with LEAE5.. to be unveiled with an eventual A9 camera. They might not even call the LEAE5 by that name, they might not even call it an adapter. They may even include it with the A9 as an “advanced lens optimizer” or something else, to avoid calling it an adapter.
Imagine the marketing….. “Keep the pro grade A9 compact with the use of F4 FE lenses, or get the optimum professional image and autofocus quality when using the advanced lens optimizer, providing full function of Zeiss and G SSM2 F2.8 lenses, giving the A9 shooter a library of over 20 fully functional lenses to choose from.”
Adding IBIS to the A7ii to me, is a further hint of this eventual merger.
Sony should know that just saying so.. Doesn’t mean anything..
I just heard an echo .
bla, bla, bla Just a marketing bullshit. They had renewed two expensive lenses so there is no reason to say we neglect A system.
What makes me unhappy is that this poster stops at 2015….
It will just make you more sad, it the poster extent to year 2020 & full of empty space. 😛
In the past, Sony will put a gray camera in 2015, meaning that some new camera is coming
or at least one camera will be available in 2015.
Now, they choose to put a gray camera for firmware update & empty space for 2015. 😉
There are 50 cameras of gray are coming.
fifty shades of grey… LOL
I’m sure that small picture of the firmware update consists of 50 shades of gray 😉 😉 lol
I hope Sony doesn’t wast too much time on A-mount. This technology will be obsolete soon. Not sure why people believe otherwise.
With a full line of compact Loxias on the way (21/2.8, 25/2.8, 35/2, 50/2, 85/4 would be nice), and with an insanely nice trinity of AF primes ready by July (Batis 25/2, Sony 55/1.8, Batis 85/1.8), I just don’t see the point of complaining. At all.
have you ever used a high end A mount camera by yourself? or was it too much camera for your small hands?
Grrr… look at me with my big man hands grrr…
Thing is this is A) an established system where many owners out there have some asset invested and B) there is still _some_ highest quality glass only available for A-mount. Think of the 135/1.8, 50/1.4, 2470/2,8 and so on. The list is long!
Btw the E-mount bodies are nice for travelling but not convenient in the hand with big lenses as pros use!
Couldn’t of said it better.
I’ve used my Nex 5 with the 70-400mm G lens on it (adapted with the LA-EA1 adapter) and you know what? It handled great, just as great as that les handled on my A700. Both cameras are front heavy. both cameras needed handling with two hands, both gave nice pictures. The only thing missing on the Nex 5 is IBIS…
About the glass you are very right. But you can put an adapter on the E-mount cameras and have them completely with fast AF. Maybe Sony comes to a point you don’t need the mirrror to focus fast and use the internal AF system of the E-mount….
Try these with mirrorless:
-Put a full sized flash unit on top of them. You’ll need one for Wireless TTL HSS and Ratio control. Don’t call me when your camera falls out of your hands.
-Try to have a remote release while tethering. What? They both use the one and only USB port on your mirrorless? Good luck with that.
-Have a DC power supply too, you’ll want one in a studio. What? That’s via USB too? Not on DSLT ;).
-Shoot sports with them. I dare you. Yeah yeah I know A6000 PDAF is amazing. It’s not. It’s adequate for %95 of the situations but you’d want an A77ii for the rest.
-Do you have a fully articulated screen?
-Of course you can use A-Mount lenses with LA-EA4 too but do you have any idea what A99 and A77ii can achieve with them? I’m not talking about focus speed or accuracy. AF range, distance information and a much better MF experience are what I’m talking about.
-Use a TTL flash on top and a RF trigger for your studio flashes. You don’t have a PC port, do you?
Shall I even go on?
“It’s adequate for %95 of the situations but you’d want an A77ii for the rest”.
Are you sure? What situations are in that last 5%?
From dpreview:
“Subject tracking, or lock-on AF is a different story. We spent a lot of time trying the a77 II’s subject tracking capabilities in a variety of scenarios, with a variety of subjects, using just about every combination of focusing option available in the a77 II’s menus. The results were mixed and somewhat inconclusive. In bright light, with a non-distracting background, the a77 II is capable of tracking moving subjects quite well. But under those same conditions, it can also fail miserably.
If we were to sum it up, the camera’s subject tracking algorithms seem too easily confused, and too eager to jump off to a different subject. It’ll often return to your subject, but that eagerness to jump off to a different AF point (that isn’t on your subject), which also means jumping off to a different focus distance, often leads to out-of-focus shots at the moment of capture. This happened far more frequently than we’ve experienced in cameras with better subject tracking, including Nikon’s 3D tracking, as well as Sony’s own subject tracking in its a6000/5100 mirrorless cameras.”
I actually meant turning the smart object tracking modes off and selecting an AF point manually. That’s still more reliable and less prone to surprises.
So are you saying the A6000 IS prone to surprises in that mode of focus?
I’m just trying to establish what that last 5% of situations is.
Object tracking might fail, yes. And when it fails, it usually fails miserably because it’s trying to track something you don’t want it to. Single point AF doesn’t get as bad when it fails, it usually only front/back focuses slightly. And the single point AF mode on A6000 is not as good as A77ii.
Is that based on your experience of both cameras? Reviews have shown the A6000’s single point AF to be extremely good.
http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Sony_Alpha_A6000/index.shtml#focus
There is no doubt that current OSPDAF implementations in current E-mount cameras cannot match the A77II’s PDAF in low light, but I have yet to see compelling evidence that the A77II is any better than the A6000 at tracking/continuous AF.
I’ve used the A6000 for some time. I had high hopes about its AF as well but it’s simply not as rapid as a DSLT in low(ish) light. In daylight they’ll probably be on par with each other, hence the 95% ;). But then, even an older model will probably focus just fine.
Btw, as the light level goes down, A7S becomes much better than the A7 with native lenses. I had used an A7S during a local product launch and it would focus inside a closed box with ease. It was so good, I thought it had a PDAF system. I couldn’t see the subject with my bare eyes and it would lock focus without hunting. Some guy’s Nikon D800 simply refused to lock on anything without the AF assist light during that test.
Later I encountered an A7S user and ht was complaining about the AF performance with his 70-200G. He believed A7 is much faster, I believed otherwise. Brought out my A7 and tested the same lens indoors during day, A7 is definitely much faster.
Subject tracking is too risky for a professional sports / action shoot.
Almost all these points have nothing to do with the camera being mirrorless and/or being E-mount. If Sony would make mirrorless E-mount camera’s in a DSLT body most of your problems would be solved.
Yeah but they don’t, do they? Not just yet.
A3000 ?
Which solves none of the things I’ve mentioned, despite the form factor.
If you’re dropping your camera on a regular basis, I suggest that instead of needing a different camera, you need to seek medical advice.
If you’re trying to use both a TTL flash and studio lights at the same time. again I would suggest seeking medical advice.
I think you made some good points here. Mirrorless is not yet there where the A-mount is, but it is closing in fast. I think in a future it is possible to have an A-mount camera without the translucent mirror that can do the same as an E-mount camera, but in a larger jacketr. Who knows they will use the sensor shift AF system that was rumored long ago with that camera. In that way you can adapt almost all the lenses with AF even your old MF glas…. I hope this is where A-mount is going to. Until AF is good enough that it can be handled without the mirror the mirror is a good thing.
Personal I think that manufacturers should make their equiptment more good for the mirrorless (read smaller) So it work better. Look at the Nissin flash, it is possible. And all the rest? Well when mirrorless realy takes of the professional cameras with all the stuff on a DSLR/SLT will come too. It takes time. And when you use thedering you don’t realy need a remopte, your pc can be the remote… Don’t get me wrong, I understand that it can be handy in some cases to have a remote, but it is not needed.
There I times when I needed a remote in addition to the PC where I simply look at the PC screen from a distance. I have the Meike grip for A7 which has a built in remote so I simply use that. But even that might run you into some problems. For example you can’t have your dedicated L bracket with the grip. It mounts but you can’t open the USB door :). Also the tripod mount on LA-EA4 will require another L bracket because it’ll interfere with the grip if you try to mount it in the landscape orientation.
– Go with a 560-TX. No reason to put a flash on the camera just to remote control others.
– Tethering via WiFi. Problem solved.
– DC power supply is put into the battery slot, not the USB port.
– Yeah, AF is not yet up to par.
– Fully articulated screen can be made on e-mount. Its not an advantage of the a-mount system itself.
– Why is the MF experience or the AF range better on a-mount?
– PC port? Seriously? With all those radio triggers 😀 ? Oh wait, you want a TTL flash on top? Why? You really want a flash from that axis? And then even TTL!?
-560-tx can’t control my Godox or my Metz flashes.
-Tethering via wifi is slow, there is a huge latency When triggering, won’t work with with MR1&2 on top of the mode dial and can’t use Focus Settings button to activate focus assist.
-Yeah actually DC into battery slot works but still a bit kludgy. You can’t simply take off with the camera.
-Still no fully articulated screen on E-mount yet though.
-With A-mount, the focus screw is always connected to the lens so the camera gets a focus distance information and you have a slightly heavier feel on the focus ring, which is nice to have with some lenses for accuracy.
-PC port sometimes comes in handy, maybe once in a year :). I actually use a hot shoe converter which has a PC port in the front.
Am i the only one who doesn’t have the money to throw away all A-Mount glass and pay 10k for a new system? I’m jaelous… On the other hand, used A-mount stuff gets cheaper again, which is nice.
They should forget about the SLT and thus make A-mount cameras with ultimate IQ.
If you want an A mount camera without the mirror, just buy an E mount camera and glue the LA-EA3 adapter on the front. Functionally identical.
I did try A-mount lenses with the mirrorless E-mount adapter, and it showed true: The IQ is far superior to pictures with the SLT in front of the sensor. However, the AF in this solution is unacceptable to non-existant, so that’s what we need: A mirrorless A-mount body with good AF performance comparable to the A6000.
Agree, not sure why they push translucent – it has proved that High ISO IQ is well beyond other cameras.
Is it so hard to put the 36MP sensor and a new AF sensor on the A99 body and call it A99II or A99R?
Jeez…
A99S specs:
– A7S 12MP sensor
– new AF system, better than A77II’s
– internal 4K
– 1080p 60p
– 720p 120p
An A99s does not make much sense. The A99 is more made for extremely fast AF.
Says who? To you it maybe doesnt make sense, but the way I see it is that it is a big problem, when the nose in your brand’s FF camera is similar to noise in a competitor’s APSC. A FF with noise-less ISO up to 1600… What is this, A900 days?
It’s not. Even with the LA-ea4 it’s simply not.
Why? What is missing?
For LA-EA3:
-The AF is so bad, it’s practically unusable with SAM and SSM lenses and nonexistant anyway with SAL lenses.
-The built in tripod support is hardly sturdy enough to support heavy lenses without their own tripod mount such as the excellent 200/2.8, 135/1.8 and most tele-zooms.
-Due to its tiny bottom, lenses might dive down when used on a tripod in portrait orientation. Also known as camera slippage.
-You can’t use the tripod mount with a battery grip mounted on the camera.
For LA-EA4:
-The AF speed is on par with the A65 and definitely worse than A99.
-The AF points are crummed in the middle, too close together to be useful.
-The screw driven lenses behave differently on a A-mount camera and the LA-EA4 adapters. In MF mode the cameras would still keep the AF screw drive tucked into the lens so you have a heavier and better feel at the focus ring.
-Because the screw drive is always tucked in, the camera actually knows where the camera is focuses at and it can use this information for the metering.
-You can use AF Range limiter on a A99 and A77ii, because again, the screw drive is always in.
-Again, the tripod mount is barely enough for heavy lenses.
-You can’t use the tripod mount with a battery grip mounted on the camera.
It is not uncommon to set background lights to fixed output while having the main lights on TTL.
Put the background lights on photo slave. Use remote trigger on your front TTL lights. Why you would even bother with TTL in the studio is beyond me in the first place. Before you answer back. I’m a 40 year Pro. Been here many times but TTL in the studio makes zero sense when you can control every light.
Btw using TTL on front lights with background going off at the same time will screw up TTL. Get off TTL in the studio. If your using all portables maybe but not studio strobes.
Might be something to do with working with human models instead of static subjects where you actually have the time to control every single light.
Are you serious, it’s a constant aperture once your setup. I shoot models all the time.
It is not every time but yes, there are times where the flash to subject distance changes. Why are you so sure about your way is the only way?
Subject distance rarely if ever changes in a studio environment. Your job is to move not the model. You want more body than you move
Depends on the case, there are no laws against a model which moves around and a voice activated light stand which does the same.
We are OT here but of course not everything is the same but your in the studio for one main reason and that is to control the environment. Don’t kill yourself with all this crap. Keep it simple on how you go about lighting and concentrate more on shooting. Big mistake I see all the time is getting wrapped up in the tech.
Btw I teach photography. I put on 27 workshops shot and still shoot fashion all the time. Advice learn how to use lighting without relying on TTL. Maybe you should check out who I am. http://www.guymancusophotography.com
I already checked your portfolio, it’s quite good.
Thanks but take my advice. Keep life simple it makes you a better shooter. Tech is there but sometimes it’s wise just not to get too wrapped up in it.
TTL is nice for fill outside but it can be fooled easily as well. It’s not fool proof at all. Learn to use manual on your strobes. You can adjust and chimp all day long with digital
Again, there are scenarios where you need to mix TTL with manual strobes. Not every shoot is the same.
Btw I’m just trying to help you not give you a hard time. I love tech as much as the next guy but I put more value in concentrating on what I’m shooting and try to keep everything around me simple and repeatable
And I’m not trying to be disrespectful or anything. I like the manual control and having everything repeatable as well but there are times where I think some automated help could’ve been nice. Not always, not once in a week, not once in a month but sometime.
Anyway, the main point was that the mirrorless don’t offer as much flexibility as a full sized DSLR can offer.
I totally get it and yes sometimes very useful. On the A7r and mirrorless I agree certainly challenges actually Sony by itself is a challenge as we have very little TTL flash options to work with
I so get this impression that the camera makers are playing a waiting game – waiting to see who will buckle first.
The main issue with going mirrorless is that pesky AF system that needs to work with older, legacy lenses.
So instead of committing to mirrorless systems full-scale, they are slowly updating/renewing the existing lenses with stepper motors or ring motors with new processors that can handle the requirements of focusing via the sensor, all the while getting the focusing speed up to scratch.
This is where the waiting game is being played – who will get there first and who will cave in and commit out of fear of being overtaken? Poker anyone?
Hence we are still being tempted with the A-mount carrot – who wants to give up their heavy investment in lenses?
Mmmmmh, carrots!
Did anyone say carrot?
Carrots are good for the eyes…which happen to like OVFs better.
After my wife’s EOS 350D and my brothers D7000, my eyes like EVF in my A65 much more than an OVF in those two
They will launch a new A99 in 2222 on 1st April.
Even IF I am wrong its pretty clear that with just 3 cameras totally the A mount is on life support and could be killed off any time.
What does the amount of cameras have to do with life support!? Please remember how many there were in the Konica Minolta days: 2 (5D and 7D), later with Sony starting: 1 (100) then 2 (100+700). The amount of camera models tell you NOTHING about life. Oh by the way, there are only 2 iPhones out ;)…
During Konica Minolta days, Canon and Nikon had similar numbers of various models. That was due to a low number of features that could be introduced. Now there are different sensors, AF modules, screens etc etc. And Canon/Nikon and others, including Sony’s own E-Mount line, have multiple models, with one filling a segment. With A99, Sony tried to make it span multiple segments and as a result, A99 is jack of all trades, master of none, and expensive too for what it is and how it does it.
There is no influx of new users into the system, due to a lack of low end offerings. There are insufficient mid-end sales, due to non-existent mid-end offerings. Semi-Pro has only A77II. While A99 is stuck between Semi-Pro and Pro, while being too expensive for former and not good enough for latter.
So a number of bodies, but more precisely a variety of bodies, can keep the system alive, while the lack of bodies, would kill a system slowly, but surely.
Yes and the two Iphones outsell almost anything out there ! How well are the 3 Sony cameras selling ? 😛
Other than the camera bodies the lenses have dried up. Old optical formulas in the same body with extra coatings and supposedly better AF at HIGHER prices is hardly considered a new lens.
I am sorry but you may not see it but A mount is on life support and I don’t think its going to recover anytime soon.
They are releasing such lenses just to justify they are maintaining both mounts. But if they reach full potential of E-mount they will drop A mount or create some hybrid camera. They dont have any plan to design and develop new lenses for A mount. They cannot survive maintaining 4 lens line ups.. A mount-Apsc, full frame and E mount Apsc full frame. I never expected E mount to have IBIS, but they did it. Now they will bring next E mount camera with a6000 or better AF and faster frame rates, better buffer, better adapter with A77II AF to adapt A mount lens. They just go with the flow of tech they develop. They didnt have any vision otherwise they wud have introduced A7II in the first place instead of A7. I think only advantage which belong to A mount is battery life. Still knowing A7 series got bad battery life, Sony refuses to provide a charger and an extra battery for customer confidence.
Its clear that Sony intends to launch a single well thought out featured packed A-Mount camera annually (like the A77II).
The A99II will likely be launched in 2015, and the A58 probably in 2016. It simply makes no sense to churn out new models with little to offer just to meet the expectations of a few overly paranoid users.
Doubt we’ll see an a58ii, to be honest. It’s in Sony’s interests to have entry level customers going e-mount (as it caters to a broader market and has a solid upgrade path).
That exactly what I was going to say as well. Its strategically better if Sony make only two fully spec’d pro level bodies, one crop and one full frame.
This way they will provide support for professionals who use A-mount and have large investment into lenses.
New customers will go into E-mount where the prices are lower and they don’t need the full range of pro features anyway. Until they start needing pro features the system will hopefully have matured enough.
The guy in that picture looks stunned. Stunned that someone would dare ask him if A mount will be continued. He’s speechless.
No, people are just not used that only the highend cameras are now left in the A-mount world and they are updated only every 3 years unlike beginner cameras. Thats all.
Words are nice. Action would speak a lot better than words. And it’s pretty funny that they had to stretch all the way back to 2012 to fill out the slide and make it look active and complete. Hopefully we do see an A99ii this year…. or else it really is just empty words.
It has been active… One body a year rate…
Actually… less than one body per year. It has now been 1 year since the last new body, and no new one yet.
Secondly, can you name any other mount system that only does one body per year? The only mount I can think of, is Canon’s EOS-M, the only mount that is more neglected than A-mount, lol.
Canon EOS, Nikon F, Pentax K, Sony E, Fuji X, Samsung NX… they all do multiple bodies every year. None of them would go 12 months without a new body.
Now, let’s see if there actually are any new bodies in the near future… How long will it be between new bodies? 15 months? 18 months? 2 years? Or will they just keep saying, “we are committed, but we don’t comment on future products”.. and keep repeating it and repeating it until A-mount inventory is simply gone.
Pentax Q has been on a body a year since first release in 2011. Considering the seriousness of that system it is some company…
I am confident A99 like A77 is on a three year schedule and will arrive with the updated A99 II this year.
Many owning old Sony and Minolta glas will surely want to buy a new A-mount camera as those lenses don’t work as well adapted to E-mount.
E-mount is clearly where Sony put most of its resources. But until E-mount can offer fast AF-tracking (A6000 doesn’t cut it and is also only APS-C) the fast and longer A-mount lenses and a lot of other things mentioned in this thread Sony is stuck with a two mount solution for a few more years at least. But if we will get A77 III and A99 III in 2-3 years I will not speculate.
Perfect response. We need more people like you
Nikon and Canon each release 3-5 cameras per year. It’s not about just looking narrowly at each series. Nikon and Canon each offer a high resolution full frame model, they each offer a high grade professional model, they each offer an entry level FF model, they each offer mid-level APS-C models.
Why can’t we narrow it down? Sony only has three cameras.. Leaving entry level and cheap out of the picture we can focus on comparing to what’s made to be compared to. Sony’s priority for cheap will lie in the entry level e-mount.
Releasing multiple cameras each year doesn’t solve anything Except ridiculous consumer demand.
D7x00, X0D, and a7x
D8xx, 5Dx, a9x
If they do stick with entry level a-mount…this will be good enough.
2012: a99
2013: a58
2014: a77ii
2015: a99 successor
2016: a58 successor
2017: a77ii successor
2018: a99 third successor
And so on….
If I buy an a77ii today…why do I need another camera next year or even the year after?… Same goes with the other models. Again, more cameras don’t solve anything Except ridiculous consumer demand and expectations….
NOW Sony A-mount only has 3 camera. In 2014, they had 4 cameras (A58, A65, A77, and A99). In 2013, they had 5 cameras (A37, A57, A65, A77, A99), in 2012, they had 6 cameras (A35, A37, A57, A65, A77, A99). In 2011, they had 9 cameras (A33, A35, A560, A580, A55, A65, A77, A850, A900).
So here is the real truthful factual trend:
2011: 9 active bodies
2012: 6 active bodies
2013: 5 active bodies
2014: 4 active bodies
2015: 3 active bodies.
If we were to really honestly follow this graph….. 2016 – 2 active bodies. 2017 – 1 active body. 2018 – 0 active bodies.
I’m not predicting 2016-2018. My point is, if you are honestly looking at the history, you can’t be optimistic. There is no reason to believe that they will continue all 3 bodies. Who knows, maybe they will jump back up to 5-10 bodies (HIGHLY UNLIKELY, but it is possible), maybe they will keep the 3-body system for the next 10 years, or maybe they will continue cutting out a body per year until they get down to zero.
If only those 3 would be the best in class, i would agree with you. The only thing stopping me from going to Canon is the lack of EVF. The highly sought for increased buffer in A77II, looks like a big deal, until you look at Canon 7D.
My belief would be that the new technologies in the FE/E could be a “test run” to see how it/they perform and of course sell. Then taking those successful technologies and apply them all to a new a-mount camera when a new cycle comes.
And in the middle of the three year cycle that’s where all the development goes into process and a good reason on being silent.
-Faster AF/large area (a6000)
-High sensitive sensor (a7s)
-5-axis ibis (a7ii)
Etc.
“test run” is good!
I totally agree when looking to e-mount lineup: There are several bodies, each with 1 outstanding feature, but no single body with all outstanding features together.
That actually keeps me from upgrading my good ol NEX5.
Also:
With the hype of e-mount(popularity)…it makes sense to have new technologies being put in the e-mount system first to receive feedback/reviews/real-time test etc so it can put a-mount bodies into further development.
#cheers
That’s because 1 size does not fit all.
Most particularly…. ultra high resolution and ultra high ISO performance — They are opposites. The use of 12mp in the A7s wasn’t an arbitrary choice — it was a necessity to optimize the ISO performance.
You aren’t going to get an A7rs that has the low light performance of the A7s along with 36mp (ok.. maybe some day you will as the technology advances, but not today, tomorrow or any day soon.).
Many shooters prefer 20-24mp over 36-50mp (thus the popularity of the A7, D750, the 5diii).
Sure, fast AF benefits everyone.. but not all entry level or budget conscious shooters need the 12fps and deep buffer of the A77ii or 11fps or the A6000.
In other words, it is physically impossible to put all the features into one camera…… Because…
Make is 50mp… and you will have plenty of shooters who say, “I would rather have less MP.” Make it 12mp with amazing low light, and some people will say, “the resolution is too low.. I dont need the best low light performance, but I need resolution.” Add ibis, which adds to the bulk of the camera, and some shooters will say, “I don’t really need IBIS, and it is making the camera too big.”
This is why CHOICES are necessary. There is no such thing as the one perfect camera body for all shooters. Every shooter has different needs. By only having 3 bodies, Sony is telling people with A-mount, “we have a limited selection… if you don’t find what you need in our limited selection.. oh well.”
One feature per e-mount… really true
Nex5 = emount at all
Nex5n = +touchscreen
Nex7 = +EVF
Nex6 = +ISO-hotshoe
A6000 = fast AF
A7 = FF at all
A7R = high-res
A7S = high-iso
A7ii = IBIS
Add:
NEX-5t = NFC lol
Sony reduced a mount to 3 lines:
FF, high APSC, low APSC
3lines / 3years = 1 body/year
Canon and Nikon have way more lines running parallel – so there are of coarse more releases. Only Canon Rebel line has a higher release cycle – it is so high that they sometimes do even not have the time to change more than a single button. ^_^
Ok…. so you’re basically saying, Sony A-mount is indeed half-dead. They don’t intend to offer a full system, but only a single FF (one size does NOT fit all), and only 2 APS-C.
Well… it would not call it half dead. I would say it is reduced to its essentials: The 3 most important lineups with a clear differentation betwenn them.
Looking to Canon, some 7D users were stepping down to 70D because it is a newer body with newer tech and close enough to replace 7D. And then stepping up again to 7Dii later on, always paying money to Canon.
We’ll agree to disagree as to whether the “essentials” are actually all being represented.
But I would hardly call a reduction to “essentials” as being a thriving vibrant system. A thriving vibrant system includes choices that may not be essential. Otherwise, we could just have a single camera body and a single lens. Nothing more than that is ever essential.
So that leaves the Sony A850, the A57, the A65, as all way past the 3-year cycle.
According to the dpreview review just released, the A6000 offers better AF tracking than the A77ii (and certainly better than the A99).
Pentax Q.. ok, I almost forgot that system existed.
So if we were ranking “body activity” — Pentax K, Nikon F, Canon EOS, Samsung NX, Fuji X, Sony E, and even Nikon 1 are all much more active than Sony A. Pentax Q is in about a tie with the Sony A. And they both have more activity than EOS-M. So out of 10 mounts… Sony A is tied for second-to-last place in activity.
A850 was just a budget version of A900 that was replaced by A99. A57 and A65 was replaced by A58 in the same way A6000 replaces both NEX-6 and NEX-7.
I don’t actually find the part where dpreview say A6000 has better AF tracking than A77 II. Reading both reviews you may have gotten that impression. But unless both cameras have been tested side by side with same test I don’t think it is possible to judge which one is most accurate.
I remember other test doing side-by-side test with A6000 versus DSLRs clearly showing A6000 had lower hit-rate. A7 II is even worse and miles away from comparing with Nikon D4s and Canon 1D-X.
You seem be on an A-mount is dead camapaign?. Are you a disgruntled previous A-mount owner that moved to Canon because Sony couldn’t provide you with the cameras and lenses you wanted?
It is quite clear Sony have moved the majority of sales from A- to E-mount. No disagreement there. But cutting of A-mount today would leave Sony with a much less functional Alpha system. Until Sony manage to solve the technical problems and add functionality and missing lenses to E- mount A-mount is staying.
We can’t be certain what happens in the future. If Sony can make cameras and an A- to E-mount adapter that actually works well with no loss of functionality then most A-mount users would propably be happy enough even if Sony stopped almost all development for A-mount. But we are not there yet. Looking forward it is just as possible Canon will make the same move from EF to the mirrorless EF-M mount. Those who are alive by 2030 will know better!
The A58 was a replacement for the A65??
So you think that a Big Mac is a substitute for Filet Mignon??
I’m a 20-year-A-mount user who would never be happy if Sony stopped A-mount development. I don’t care how good E-mount becomes or how good adapters become, so yes.. I am quite sore about the reduced development of A-mount.
What is a proper replacement is certainly a hot topic. Just as the Nikon D700 users who refuse to accept D800 as the replacement. If we ask the producer they never make replacements just new products.
Well, if Filet Mignon doesn’t sell well enough but Big Mac do, why not? Sometimes changes must be done in the menu. And whatever replaces Filet Mignon there will be complaints from gourmets.
Sony reduced the number of low end A-mount camera lines and replaced them with a single line camera, the A58. Less functional and build than A65? Sure, but still a replacement in my eyes even if I understand many users are not happy.
Saying the A58 is a replacement for the A65 would be as absurd as saying that the RX100 is a replacement for the A850. They are entirely different species of cameras. The A65 was essentially the A77 in a cheaper body.
Not all cameras get replaced. Nikon never really replaced the D700 or the D300. Some lines get DISCONTINUED.. not replaced.
But here is the key difference — Nikon and Canon may discontinue some lines, but then they also create new lines. They discontinued the D300 line, but they created a D7000 line. They discontinued the true D700 line, but gave full frame users 5 other lines to choose from (D4, D800, D600, D750, Df).
Putting aside the discontinuance of all OVF lines, within SLT lines, Sony discontinued 3 lines (the A850 line, the true mid-level A55-57 line, and the high-mid level A65 line). The only lines they have continued as the basic entry level (which got re-named from A3_ to A5_), the prosumer APS-C (A77ii), and a single mid-fullframe level (the A99).
Do not confuse discontinuance with replacement. Sony discontinued several of their lines. No A65 user in their right mind would look to the A58 as a replacement for their A65. If their A65 breaks, their options would be A77ii, or buy used.
I explained my view above and will not continue this war of semantics. It is possible to have different points of view and therefore disagree about the sight.
Nikon D7000 is the upgraded replacement of D90 that replaced D80 that replaced D70. You may know Sony’s camera lines better, but I know my Nikon’s better.
First you say A65 never got a replacement and now you in effect claim it was to A77 what A850 was to A900? I won’t argue about that! Well, in my mind Sony A65 users can’t complain much as they got the replacement A77 II!
…and Sony gave their users a lot of E-mount FF cameras as well!
No… the A77ii is much more expensive than the A65. You are missing the whole point of having different lines. Because one size does not fit all. Different budgets, different priorities.
And yes, they gave their users lots of E-mount — A totally different mount. Despite Sony marketing fiction of 1 big happy family, the E-mount and A-mount are actually competitors.
Actually no. A77II is not even a year old and is now selling for the introduction price of A65. At least here. You could check gray market prices that are more true than the official, currently inflated USA prices that don’t reflect the strong US Dollar.
You are correct Sony deleted the A57/A65 camera line (Interestingly Canon did almost the opposite and created the pair 750D/760D, T6i and T6s in USA, trying to boost DSLR sales. Though I’m not sure that helps in the declining DSLR market. Maybe just shifting the balance a bit versus Nikon by selling having a greater choice of consumer class cameras.) completely and didn’t make a direct replacement for that camera.
They had to as they didn’t have enough customers for their SLT cameras, as many moved to E-mount. So the three lines with four cameras was replaced by the remaining two lines with only two cameras, the budget choice A58 and the more advanced A77II for a today very good price, same as Canon’s old 70D and not much more than D7100 and much cheaper than D7200.
It’s quite clear Sony is trying their best to move their customers to mirrorless to offer a different alternative to Canon and Nikon. If Sony would want to keep A-mount as a distinctive alternative to their mirrorless E-mount they should have kept the optical finder and mirror. The SLT-solution was the first nail in the A-mount coffin. Why keep a mount with a long flange distance made to leave place for a swinging mirror when there is no longer a need for a big optical mirror?
Only reason is Sony yet have no E-mount camera with the “pro-build” of A99 offering an integrated and sturdy A-mount adapter solution that haven’t got the limitations and clumsy, unergonomic build of the current adapter solutions. When Sony can do that there is not many reasons keep building A-mount only cameras. as it would be if they still used an optical viewfinder.
I still think an A99II is coming in September, give or take a month, this year as planning started long ago and Sony have no good alternative yet. Also upgrading A99 in same way as A77II should not cost that much. A modestly upgraded A58, named A59 may also be released next year. But after that?
If we are talking about replacements within lines you are correct. I was more thinking about what was the actual replacement in general and practical sense.
I understand now that A57 and A65 was two models of the same line that Sony completely stopped producing. But facts remains. Owners of broken A57 and A65 cameras looking for a new Sony APS-C A-mount replacement only have two choices, A58 or A77II.
Nikon D7000 is the upgraded replacement of D90 that replaced D80 that replaced D70. Not a new line at all. You may know Sony’s camera lines better, but I know my Nikon’s better.
D800 was the build replacement of D700. Some had hard accepting this because of 3x more MP and a few less fps. Most were very happy with Nikon’s choice, but as usual the complainers are the loudest. I explained the three actual FF lines Nikon have in another answer. Canon and Nikon both have three different lines of FF cameras while Sony has two. Some lines have only one camera model (Nikon D4s and D810; Canon 1DX and 6D; Sony A99) while others have several. (Canon 5D series cameras, Sony A7 i different versions, Nikon D610, Df and D750) If we were discussing cars we would talk about the chassis used.
What you call lines I call models. For exemple A900 and A850 are different models of the same line, just as A57 and A65.
Get your facts straight. A58 was a replacement for A37. A57 and A65 on the other hand were outright discontinued and there is no replacement.
Sony reduced the number of low end A-mount camera lines to one replacing them all. Naturally that means some loss in functions and build compared to the highest of those discontinued lines. But in my eyes it is still a replacement. Even the latest cameras in the same line may loose functions from earlier models.
Sounds like you have never shot with the A65 and A58. They are completely different levels of camera. Not just a loss of a couple minor functions. For that matter, the A58 was originally conceived as the A38, but they re-named it as the A58 when they decided to merge lines. It is a very very clear downgrade from even the A57. Anybody who has actually shot with those cameras, will tell you so.
You may as well say that the A58 was the replacement for the A850. It’s just nonsense.
+1 You definitely have never used A65.
As an A65 user, who used to have A55, the A58 is not “a loss of features”, but rather is equivalent to going from D7000 to D3000
You are correct about that as I am not an A-mount user. But four lines of DSLR/SLT APS-C cameras was just to many for Sony. Even Nikon only had three lines since they stopped producing D300s. Considering Sony sales are much lower assortment was reduced to the top A77 and entry level A58.
If more entry level sales move from APS-C A-mount to E-mount then A58 may also be axed. In fact in my country the two biggest on-line sellers don’t have a single A58 in stock in their on-line store. A77 II are plenty, and should likely remain as it fills a niche for more reach with long lenses.
That’s taking it a bit to far as one camera is FF and the other APS-C and A850 and A900 was replaced with A99. Also A6000 was downgraded in some aspects compared to not only Nex-7 but also Nex-6.
Generally speaking it is not unusual that replacements are worse, especially in build, to save costs. So this is mostly an unnecessary discussion about what we put into the world replacement. I see A58 as an effective replacement of three cameras while I acknowledege your point that is not a direct replacement of all cameras discontinued.
So there you were defending Sony’s decision to reduce the A-Mount line to lower number of cameras. Now it all makes perfect sense. How would you like a A3000, then next year A6000 and then a year after an A7, with an ISO rating of a 5 year old camera? After that kind of stuff, try to tell me with a straight face that Sony is rightfully consolidating the lines, and that it’s OK to have such a pace going forward.
Point is – A-Mount is completely different. About as different as F or EF to E-Mount. Just because there is an influx of low end into E-Mount. That would never translate into upper end in A-Mount. Never! Not with a single user.
I’m not defending Sony as I have no connections to them except I own several of their products. I’m just trying to be realistic.
There is a big difference between the current Sony A-mount cameras and Nikon’s F-mount and Canon’s EF and EF-S mount cameras. It is spelled EVF. By replacing the optical viewfinder with an electronic viewfinder Sony took away the main reason to use a SLR type of camera with a mount having a flange distance leaving place for a mirror.
Imagine Sony built an E-mount camera that with the A-mount adapter attached had similar shape size and functionality as A99. Then the need for an A-mount only A99 would be very low as it essentially woul work just as a regular A99.
Such a camera and adapter doesn’t yet exist. Therefore I think we will see a A99II this year and possibly a A59 next year. But what happens after that?
Moving through your points backwards..
The A58 is an effective replacement for an A37. As, a former A37 user, could move to an A58 within the same price category, and get a slight overall upgrade.
Most A57 users would not take the A58 seriously… but a small percentage of A57 users could look at the A58 as an upgrade… going up from 16mp to 20mp, OLED viewfinder. But most A57 users would rather buy a used A57 than a new A58. (Go from 10fps with a large buffer to 6 fps with a teeny tiny buffer? Go to a smaller viewfinder. Give up articulated LCD for a tilty LCD. Go from metal built mount to plastic. It is 90% a downgrade). And I doubt you would find a single A65 user on earth who would want to switch to an A58.
Now yes, many camera makers have reduced their APS-C lineups. That’s true. Nikon reduced to 3 lines. Sony E-mount has basically reduced APS-C to 3 lines. But they have done it while INCREASING the number of full frame lines. Nikon now has 5 full frame lines. Sony E-mount now has 3 full frame lines. Even Pentax will soon introduce their first full frame line.
So Sony, like the others, reduced their APS-C lines. But unlike the others, they did not expand their full frame lines.
What is happening….. Within Nikon, Canon, Sony E-mount… many advanced amateur shooters are moving up to full frame models, as the prices decreased. A lot of former 7d shooters moved up to the 6d or 5diii. A lot of D7000 moved up to D610. A lot of Nex-7 moved up to A7. This is a “line” that is being ignored by Sony with A-mount.
Okay, I got it! 🙂
What is a line can be discussed. I think the basis should be in build. The A7 cameras therefore are all one and the same line with very similar build, with A7 II as the exception as it is second generation of the line. Because they use sensors with different sensors there is still a clear difference between them, with A7s differing the most.
With build as basis I think Nikon only have three lines of FF cameras, D4s and D810 are two of them. Df is a kind of retro styled camera with looks and dials from old film cameras, but based on the D600 with parts from other cameras. D610 is as we know just the fixed D600 and D750 is the latest upgrade of D600.
I don’t get why you are thinking Sony are ignoring those upgrading to FF. Nothing prevents A77 users upgrading to A99 with an A99II rumored. DSLR and SLT cameras excel at action photography of different kinds. For that 24 MP is enough. For landscape photos fast AF is not needed and using A7R with an adapter is a workable solution. Yes I understand A-mount users may prefer an A-mount camera with more MP instead. But Sony can’t build camera models they don’t expect will be selling. It’s also a question of resources that are not unlimited.
If camera manufacturers could build their cameras smarter so that using a different sensor only was a question of changing a couple of part boxes in the production line then it could be possible to order a camera with a sensor of preference just like one can order a car with choices of engines. Like for exemple an A99 with a 36MP sensor. But we are not there yet. Although the A7 line seem close with a very modular build. And I get the impression that they are adapting the production to what is most in demand.
Sony made their increase of full frame cameras on offer for E-mount as that is where they see an increase in potential sales. Reading how enthusistic A7 camera users seem to be it is hard to blame Sony for the choice from a business point of view.
If we are talking camera lines you are correct. But owners of broken A57 and A65 cameras looking for a new Sony APS-C A-mount replacement only have two choices, A58 or A77II.
Yes, and while A57 users might, just might downgrade to plastic mount, half baked A58, A65 users have got nowhere to go but to A77II. I’m one of those A65 users and I sure as heck am not getting A58 as a replacement.
From the dpreview review of the A77ii:
“if we were to sum it up, the camera’s subject tracking algorithms seem too easily confused, and too eager to jump off to a different subject. It’ll often return to your subject, but that eagerness to jump off to a different AF point (that isn’t on your subject), which also means jumping off to a different focus distance, often leads to out-of-focus shots at the moment of capture. This happened far more frequently than we’ve experienced in cameras with better subject tracking, including Nikon’s 3D tracking, as well as Sony’s own subject tracking in its a6000/5100 mirrorless cameras.”
They stretch it to show every current camera, thats all. The A99 is still current.
And they show action: So far they stay true to the 3 year plan. A77II came 3 years after A77, which came 3 years after A700. Same to A900 and A99. A99-II is due in Q4, so there is still time.
There is no “true 3 year plan”…. It’s a rationalization, nothing more.
A33 -2010, A35 – 2011, A37 – 2012., A58, 2013 — So it was on a 1-year “plan” but now nothing for 2+ years.
A550 – 2009, A580 AND A55 – 2010, A57 – 2012 — Now 3 years without replacement, after a new model every 1-2 years.
A850 – 2009. Now 6 years without replacement.
Sony never announced there was a 3-year plan between camera bodies. Nor can you say there is a 3-year plan based on their history. Their history sometimes had models replaced within a year, sometimes 4 years.
But they key isn’t just to look within Sony.. it’s to also look at everyone else is doing. Canon, Nikon, and Sony E, are all EXPANDING their full frame lineup. 3 years ago, you could say it was “normal” to only have 1 or 2 full frame cameras. But now, Canon, Nikon, and even Sony FE, each have 4 or more full frame models that are active.
So even if one considered the A99 to be current and active, that still leaves Sony 3 fullframe models behind. (Canon, Nikon and Sony FE each offer an ultra-high resolution model.. they each offer an “entry model,” and Canon and Nikon offer high level professional models).
The only reason to keep the mirror is that on sensor PDAF is not competitive with DSLR autofocus. This tells me that I have been overly optimistic that a dual mount A9 would soon be announced with DSLR autofocus speed and accuracy. Nope, this next generation of sensors will not obsolete the DSLRs..
This is pure speculation, or do you have evidence to support the claim that not all of the A-mount lens designs were part of the deal?
Actually, the patents would have expired long ago. Anybody could backwards engineer a beercan….. Look at the companies making cheap knock offs of Canon lenses.
Sony needs to put latest newest tech in new A mount camera to convince people they are really commited to A mount.
The A77-II has the latest tech.
The a99 had amazing tech when it was released too lol (for its time)
14bit raw
Dual SD
Dual At
Range AF
And more lol
When the successor comes I’m sure it’ll have amazing tech
Dual SD is not amazing. Especially with new Compact flash was going at 160MB/s.
Ha-ha-ha……good joke
Didn’t they try that already a few times? Maybe they figured out a new strategy…
Yep, dump it and “fugetaboutit”. At least that’s what the new strategy looks like right now 🙂
No, Sony just needs to release a new A-mount camera to convince people they are really committed to A-mount.
A camera, any camera.
“cameras with a translucent mirror are not forgotten”
.. we just can’t find the mirrors we made *wink, wink*
Have to agree. It’s just stupid…
Is it? Why?
a99ii will bridge the gap between now until mirrorless is ready for prime time. If a99ii does come out it will be the last SLT camera
Says “topdog”, the allknowing ;)?
You do know “it will be the last a-mount” is a phrase that has been used since 2006 and been wrong EVERY SINGLE TIME.. its odd that some people can’t learn from history. Even 4/3rd bodies came out years after the last 4/3rd lens was released. SO there is no way will be the last FF a-mount. BTW it helps if you think vs feel .. those of us that took apart the investor info from last winter noted that A-mount is probably almost as much revenue to Sony as e-mount. Its a system with millions of users who upgrade with almost no marketing. So it would be stupid business to no keep feeding the beast upgrades even if you have given up the idea that you can ever be #2 in DSLRs
” those of us that took about the investor info from last winter noted that A-mount is probably almost as much revenue to Sony as e-mount.”
Source?
It is not a “Source” but a hint:
germans amazon DSLR-bestseller on Apr-24-2015:
1. Canon EOS700D
2. Canon EOS1200D
3. Sony SLT-A58K <—- before best Nikon *gosh*!!!
4-15:
Canon Canon Nikon
Canon Canon Nikon
Canon Nikon Nikon
Canon Canon Canon
That sounds like a momentary fluke, lol. (in the last hour, they happened to sell 2 A58s or something). Even if the A58 is massively successful, I doubt it would ever be the #3 selling dSLR.
According to Amazon USA:
Sony A58:
#84 in Camera & Photo > Digital SLRs
#84 is pretty darn low… The Canon Rebel XT (yes, the 2005 model!) is ranked #75.
So even if we average the USA and the Germany Amazon rankings… it would be a pretty pathetic performance.
Anyway….. I do want to know where the evidence is, that the A-mount generates nearly as much profit as the E-mount.
Sony A58: ranked by Amazon USA #1444 in cameras & photo. The A6000 ranked #110 in cameras and photo.
The Sony A7ii #697 in camera and photo. A77ii ranked #671.
So if you believe these indications, the A6000 is a massively successful seller. The A7ii and A77ii are moderate sellers. (Of course, A7 users also can pick the A7, A7r or A7s), while the A58 is selling poorly. (And the A99 is truly horrible at #6500!!)
Myself can not believe that, too. But it is really listed this way 🙂
And a week days ago it was definitely ranked in top 3. I am not sure if it was #2 or #3.
I am interested in comparing numbers between e-mount and a-mount sales, too.
It has been said as long that SLT was just a transitioning technology to be used until mirrorless was ready to go.
Im guessing Sony is still working out the kinks since there are no mirrorless A-mount yet.
Would you really have a problem with a “parts bin” a99ii? Current a99 shell, 36 MP, EFCS, wifi, XAVC-S. Take my money.
That picture is a bit funny. They even put the firmware upgrade on it, you can see they tried so hard to find something to put under the A mount timeline. They don’t even have anything shown on the roadmap, if they are really committed, at a bare minimum, there should be a A mount camera or adapter in the roadmap.
I guess inventory was low so they used the opportunity bring production up to date, lowering the number of parts and updating the electronics instead of sourcing expensive ancient stuff. Mark II [talking about the lenses] will definitely be cheaper to make, otherwise they wouldn’t have done it.
I have no idea why you come to the 100% conclusion they are cheaper to make or they lower number of parts!?
There is no mention of a conclusion.
“will definitely be cheaper to make”
“cameras with a translucent mirror are not forgotten”
— they want to build a museum in order to remember?
Mayby they will put a translucent mirror in the next E mount camera ([:<])
Where exactly would they shoehorn that?
([:<])
Owl in a crash helmet?
In this vein, I’m wondering why we’re waiting 6 months for an a7Rii if it’s simply an a7ii with the 36MP sensor.
Probably no optical low pass filter
I guess they want to implement electronic first curtain shutter with the A7R-II, and the technology was not ready last year.
More expensive than you think. I rather have Sony and Sony Alpha alive the next 20 years than let them rush lots of pro cameras out and go bankrupt. You need to look more than a few days ahead :)…
Says who?
Who are you Mr. Expert? What do you do?
I hope Sony concentrates on 3 topics:
1) A9 – top notch mirrorless
2) LA-EAX – top notch adapter
3) A99ii – using exactly the tech of 1) and 2) but all inside one single, bigger, sturdy housing
Looking forward to the new RX models…
Sony clearly have no commitment to A-Mount, and they’re simultaneously unwilling to turn A7x into a serious system.
If you want a top-notch Sony camera with a standard 24-70 f/2.8 lens, there simply isn’t one.
Which translates into, you don’t own one.
A99 is better than DSLRs have been 5 years ago.
Assuming A99 is not good enough as moneymaking workhorse, this implies that 5 years ago nobody had a moneymaking workhorse at all.
Well, there is A-mount and at least it’s good enough if you need a workhorse to make money with it or just to shoot good photos. Good enough for me… 😉
The A99 is still better and hundreds of $$ less expensive then the current Canon 5DMKIII.
If only it had the ability to record 1080p video on-par with GH4. The A65/A77 and A99 have horrible quality video. Very soft at all ISOs and very noisy above ISO 100.
Was recently recording with A65 at ISO1600 and the amount of noise would have been bearable if the video wasn’t so soft. You could actually tell in post fairly easily, what was done with GH4 @ 1080P and what was done with A65. It’s as if A65 was recording at 720P the whole time.
And conversely; if the GH4 was only able to compete with the Sony’s in still image quality.
GH4 has week dynamic range in video as well.
Sure, but AVCHD is much more limiting. Don’t know how XAVC-S will behave.
My comment was not about how the cameras look on paper, but rather what were the results that I saw in real life.
Couldn’t disagree there. I guess i’m just wishing for a jack of all trades and master of all as well.
Have to disagree there with A99 — and after doing video with it extensively last year, I’ll say it has to be the most underrated camera in terms of video IQ in recent memory.
Additionally, to compare softness of full frame video vs GH4 is just silly. The small sensor has wider depth of field due to it’s size — meaning more is in focus.
A99 might not be the best video out of a still camera, but its video quality certainly doesn’t suck and is on par with 5D Mark III when used correctly — it even exceeds in areas like latitude and such.
If anyone is looking for a Sony still camera to use with video, however, at this point, there is not point in recommending anything but A7S.
A7s – agree
As for softness in video. I can tell a mushy in-focus detail from bokeh. A65 was bad, A99 just as bad, but less noise. Stop down as much as you want and still you will not get a great quality video. Good – yes, great – no. And all this is due to the amount of line skipping. Maybe the codec has something to do with this.
I’ve read that A77II is a big improvement. Haven’t had the chance to rent it out just yet. I surely hope so, cause I don’t want a GH4 as a half baked still camera.
A77II is much better than A99 for video, again though, it’s a smaller sensor — closer to Super35. The X-AVC S codec doesn’t hurt either!
A99 is just about the same in video quality as A77. I’ve read that A77II is better than A77 mk1 in video. No comparisons to A99’s yet. I’d love to see the noise control difference between the two, but as for right now, my planned upgrade is to A77II
A77II is much better than A99 for video
A99 video is plagued by serious moire and aliasing, low DR and a low-bitrate codec that’s not color correction friendly at all. Its also soft. There are plenty of samples across the web that demonstrate. Its poorly rated, as it should be.
The D750 has none of those issues and better DR/Noise thanks to a normal mirror. It also has a better AF system. It shoots some of the best 1080p coming out of any ILC.
A99 video is crap, not rivaling a 5d2, let alone the less handicapped 5d3. It has nothing to do with DOF, it’s the line skipping in the A99. It’s my least favorite part of the camera, as there’s at least there are ways to work around the crop focus area and flash system.
These were all shot with A99 — I wouldn’t exactly say it’s crap.
https://vimeo.com/88453518
https://vimeo.com/92132229
https://vimeo.com/94500005
https://vimeo.com/83708517
Here’s a GH4 vs A65 side by side.
GH4 is wide at 1:40, A65 is Zoom with AF tracking at 1:45. You can see that A65 is much softer. A65 shoots the same video quality as A77
A99 is considered to have a similar image quality to A77 with a little less noise.
Both cameras are at ISO1600
https://vimeo.com/ondemand/tango2015
I don’t need to look at this because I just posted more than enough examples shot with A99 so you can see real videos created in real world scenarios. Furthermore, I’m not interested in side-by-side video samples — it’s as bad as pixel peeping and amounts to nothing more than nerdy gearhead porn. I’m only interested in real work.
DW ,
You’re wasting your time . Some people just live in fantasy land, a place driven by SPECS and not real life results . This is the measurebator zone .
I like your work, but I am/was getting better footage from an A57/rx10, and the a7s makes all of them obsolete. Once an a7s equivalent with stabilization comes, that’ll help me. I mostly do dance/concert video though, and can only imagine what shooting in daylight is like.
DW , have to agree with you the a99 is vastly underrated . People forget that it earned a gold award from DP review , and it’s a very capable camera used by Pros. It may not be the best at video , but it’s still great for stills .
A99 was a half-assed project from the start, they didn’t even bother to create a FF AF module for it.
Nikon lenses will fit A mount cameras with a simple adapter, no optics.
E mount autofocusing does not work on nikon lenses even with an adapter…I wonder if they could be made to autofocus with A mount camera since neither are mirrorless.
If an adapter were available for af on F mount to A mount, then that might also work with laea4 adapter + F to A mount adapter.
The hard part isn’t the focus for an F-mount to A-mount adapter, it’s IRIS control since almost all Nikon lenses are stopped down via a mechanical linkage. So you would have to build an adapter that sends an electronic aperture signal to the adapter and the adapter would then have to activate it’s own internal electro-mechanical aperture stop down tab in order to stop down the lens. The only other option would be to enable AF but have a mechanical aperture ring on the adapater but then you would have to open it up to AF, and then stop down manually which is a bit awkward and slow for many applications. Focus is much easier since on all AF-S lenses, it’s simply an electrical signal.
I agree…but if AF can be dealt with manual apperture should be acceptable.
But the problem is that AF is normally done on a DSLR/DSLT with the lens wide open and the shot is then stopped down to the selected aperture at the instant of the photo. So for wildlife, which I presume is a primary use for you, in continuous AF, how would you control the IRIS. you would always have to shoot wide open since the continuous AF system with tracking is designed to AF with the lens wide open. Even when shooting at 8 or 10FPS, between each shot, the Iris still open up for the focus adjustment to be made. For one shot or single shot users, yes, this would work but for fast continuous AF there would be problems with focus tracking at any aperture but wide open.
As Stan just pointed out the adapter does not fit like I incorrectly thought. It does.
Therefore my idea wont work.
The hard part is exactly the focus, simply because that adapter doesn’t exist, except in barry’s dreams. Doesn’t exist because it is physically impossible without optics. The throat diameter in A-Mount is smaller than the F-Mount.
Mount, Register, Throat
Nikon F, 46.5mm, 44mm
Sony A, 44.5mm, 42mm
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?atclk=Lens+Fitting+%28Female%29_Nikon&ci=3420&N=4077634486+4289371088+4289371044
You may have missed the point I was trying to make – from an engineering perspective, designing such an adapter would be much more challenging for coupling the aperture diaphragm on a Nikon F-mount lens than it would be to figure out how to make it focus. Nikon F-mount has a shorter flange distance than Sony A-mount and it is approximately the same as Canon EOS-EF mount and adapters do exist to mount Nikon lenses on Canon EOS-EF due to this. However the difference is only about 2mm which makes it nearly impossible to incorporate the mechanical linkages for auto-aperture control.
Well yes, strictly about squeezing an arpeture control of some kind, like a lever into 2mm worth of space is very challenging. 100% agree.
But since that kind of adapter doesn’t exist, and all that do exist are rather fat, and have a lens built in for infinity focus, its not that challenging to introduce an arpeture control into one of those.
Its very interesting how you will fit a Nikon’s F mount lens with 46.5mm register distance and a 44mm throat diameter, onto an A-Mount, that has a 44.5mm register distance with a 42mm throat diameter.
Next time do some research before making stupid suggestions.
They actually sell several differrent brands of F mount to A mount adapter…h has 2 or 3 differrent ones.
They are all fully manual
Next time do some research before making stupid replies ([:~)
And I did. Does that look to you like an adapter with no optics?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?atclk=Lens+Fitting+%28Female%29_Nikon&ci=3420&N=4077634486+4289371088+4289371044
I checked with bh.
Some have optics, some dont, but will not focus to infinity.
So you are correct this time.
So at best your comment was missing enough facts to render it misleading.
I will try to explain my point of view about Sony’s A-mount production :
In my opinion the rumors floating about “A-mount is dead” or let’s say the campaign was made by someone and it was not spontaneous , I’ve been reading that A-mount is dead everywhere .. SAR , DPreview forums , Dyxum .. and many more websites.
Sony is concentrating on E-mount (specially the full frame) because it is what people was dreaming for and no other company have this line in that price tag (Leica is too expensive for casual shooters).
So Sony is trying to dominate the FF mirrorless market , they are trying to produce lenses before Canon/Nikon get in this category.
Now Canon/Nikon are embarrassed..
Nikon released the Nikon Df .. they thought this would be a competitor to the Sony A7 but it turned out to be a total failure .. nobody liked it.
Canon was smarter and waited to see what people think , now they are under pressure by their fans because they keep asking for a FF mirrorless.
All what Canon can do is not to be under pressure by themselves , they need to make Sony under the same pressure by Sony’s fans too to reduce FF mirrorless production speed , so they spread that rumor “A-mount is dead” because they know that Sony DSLRs is not selling well .. it is not going to be a threat to Canon.
this is my opinion as a seller in my country and I experienced many rumor wars and price dropping wars by other stores.
end of story .. good night 😉
Interesting thought about Canon strategy…
I expect, Canon has learned a lot from Sony for mirrorless systems and is acting more clever:
1) they copied 18mm flange distance to benefit from 3rd party lens maker in long run
2) they made a mount with a really big diameter – perfect for FF sensors
3) they just said: “hey folks – we can do big-sensor mirrorless, too – stay tuned”
4) they are best selling DSLR-brand, so no need to rival its own system
5) they are already testing mirrorless tech inside DSLRs (dual-pixel-AF + STM-lenses)
They are prepared for the mirrorless break-even point:
Whenever they want, they can release a FF mirrorless body like A7.
Until then they released enough STM-lenses for FF and APS-C, that can be easily adapted to their mirrorless bodies – retaining full AF functions. And they can jump up the train of 3rd party lenses that were constucted for Sony – because of the identical 18mm flange distance.
Thinking about that, I don’t think it is a joke when I read:
“Canon wants to become number 1 in the mirrorless market by end 2017.”
I’m probably going to get flamed for saying this, but I kind of hope it happens. Not being able to use A-Mount lenses properly on E-Mount without EA4 is a big letdown.
Of course there is a double-edged sword. Maybe Sony is purposefully not allowing proper AF in firmware with A-Mount lenses using EA3 adapter, so that when Canon releases a proper mirrorless, they could strike back with a new camera, with full E and A mount interoperability. This way they’ll get some sales and will get to retain current customers as well as A-Mount customers that are waiting for Canon mirrorless in a proper DSLR body.
It would be interesting to me to be able to adapt my A-mount lenses to a Canon mirrorless body.
Don’t know about interesting, but i’d sure feel funny 🙂
“… they (Canon?) spread that rumor “A-mount is dead” …”
sounds like a wild conspiracy theory. I think A-mount is dead as my own conclusion, not because of someone said it to me.
Reasons why A-mount is not dead because Sony didn’t slow down A-mount cameras and lenses production , normally they manufacture a new A-mount camera every 2-3 years (expected A99 successor should be on the next September).
Plus Sony is updating their A-mount lenses constantly , this year they updated 3 A-mount lenses (if I’m not mistaken).
The only reason why people are believing this rumor is the speed of E-mount cameras and lenses production (5 FE lenses per year and 3 FF E-mount cameras per year) , the reason for that fast production speed is to dominate the market in this category.
When I hear a (false) rumor I usually look after “who is going to benefit from spreading this rumor” , I don’t say that I’m sure that Canon is behind the rumor but it was my personal analysis.
Canon is going to enter the FF mirrorless world but they need time , so they start this rumor to force Sony to respond to their fans and concentrate on A-mount which will give Canon more time to work and catch up with Sony.
This is a war between digital imaging companies , it is normal to expect false rumors and conspiracies from all companies.
Honestly the facts destroy your argument pretty easily.
Please let us know when Sony last released a completely brand new optical design of a lens for Sony ? It was the Zeiss 50mm f1.4 in 2013. The relaunching of old optical designs with just faster AF and higher prices isn’t going to be considered a new new lens by anybody.
Before that it was the 18-135mm SAM lens in 2012. Last year in 2014 there was NO new lens at all. Just these old lenses with faster AF.
The A58 and A99 are already outdated cameras. They cannot effectively compete in the market anymore. Other than the big 2 even Pentax has announced many new cameras in the market recently along with new lenses.
I have been a long time A mount user but if Sony thinks I will spend so many $$$ extra on an outdated lens like the 70-200mm f2.8 SSM II they are kidding themselves when the Canon 70-200mm IS II and 70-200mm VR II are superior lenses and cost the same.
I am sorry but the writing’s on the wall. I used to fight with my friends who told me A mount is dead but now it seems to be evident to almost everybody that A mount is on life support and the plug can be pulled at any time.
I think it is fairly obvious that there will be an a99 successor. Beyond that, question remains: will the a-mount live on in cameras or adapters only or should it live not in a-mount specific bodies
You are right about new lens production , but try to imagine yourself as a Sony HQ .. You will look for 2 things :
1- profit
2- dominance of market
Let’s say it’s a money power respect thing.
Sony need to push FE lenses fast , so concentrating on A-mount will reduce speed of FE production with almost no real profit .. If you compare A-mount to E-mount being sold in the market you will find that there is no way to compare them , E-mount cameras and lenses are selling way much better than A-mount.
That’s why I came up with “Canon is the one behind A-mount is dead rumor”.
Canon wants to enter the FF mirrorless world but they also want Sony to slow down so Canon can catch up with them.
So Canon is putting Sony under pressure by their own fans to ask for A-mount cameras and lenses to slow down FF mirrorless cameras and lenses production.
I’m not saying this is ture , it’s my analysis and assumption based on what’s happened around us.
I don’t know about others, but I wouldn’t bother upgrading my A99 to a 36MP A-mount camera. And so I just hope Sony isn’t foolish enough to release an A7 sensor based A-mount flagship camera. Because that would be a complete waist of resources.
Barry didn’t say he was going to upgrade his A99. It’s not always about refreshing people that have the latest A mount camera. There are plenty of people that may still have A900’s that weren’t ready to upgrade to an A99 in 2012 and now don’t want to spend their money on 3yr old tech.
That would be me. I am not going to buy a 2015 model car in December 2015 either.
No Amount of hope will rescue A-mount!
Love the Phrase “No hint about possible a-mount camera coming” I would say 2 pro level FF zooms with 4x the AF speed clearly designed for the new Sony focusing systems that don’t exist on a FF a-mount yet is a HECK OF A HINT!
You deserve a medal! #cheers
These are old re-designed lenses, not new designs. The last “hint” was Zeiss 50mm
Sure, but if AF is much improved, who knows what’s coming next. There were quite a few FF lenses updated with a new AF. I wonder if one day, a new AF would allow a proper FE AF without SLT. Of course new “firmware” would be needed for that. Which in Sony terms usually means a new body.
Duott, the press release said they added new ED elements, so it sounds the optical formula was revised in addition as the totally new SSM and AF LSI, weather sealings, and new coatings. It’s not much of a price increase either so I’m definitely going to upgrade.
IF you understand Sony.. the rarely do roadmaps its a stupid idea if you are competing hard against larger vendors. They did it when the A900 was coming out.. They did if for the FE lens line and they did it last year for the 2-amount lenses they just released which to anyone with a tad bit of logic over fear is a GIANT LIGHTED ARROW POINTING to a new FF a-mount with advanced Autofocus capability
Well, the 2 active bodies sounds about right for 2016. If I recall right, I remember seeing an interview with one of Sony’s executives in 2014, who stated that A-Mount will focus on higher tier cameras.
Ding ding ding! For those who complain why Sony isn’t constantly releasing new cameras each year and such….high end cameras have approx 2.5-3 years before refreshing.
Narrowing down the target audience and focus on a smaller group in the a-mount base. While e-mount is where cash comes in for development of both BOTH A and E mount cameras.
E-mount sells like hotcakes… Where Most likely Sony gets money for R&D for a-mount
I find your criticism rather irrelevant considering 2015 isn’t over yet.
My thinking is the same as Stan’s. Its not a numbers game. It looks to me like a Mount is going to be Sony’s “Pro” line. I’m not using the term to disparage others, but to mean the cameras theoretically used by classic working professional photographers. Those cameras probably are always going to be at a price point, that only advanced amateurs are going to purchase them. So no more a100s or a35s, etc. You only really need two: Your best FF and your best APS-C. (Maybe a third if they ever go to medium format.) Those are the cameras which Sony will tout for branding purposes not for numbers. The rest of the line (except RX1) are there for everyone else . . . the bulk of the market. In the numbers game, that it where the big three need to win against each other in a market increasingly pinched by smartphone cameras.
That just doesn’t work for a number of reasons:
First off, it’s hard to hold the A99 up as a best-in-class professional level product at this point… It has the worst low light performance of any full frame on the market, not even close to most others on the market. It’s AF system is way behind the leaders. It is outclassed even by the A77ii in every regard except for about a half stop of ISO performance.
Secondly, if you want to hold it up as the “pro line,” most pros expect much greater lens support and lens development than they get from Sony. You can’t say, “we are focused on pros” and then not introduce a single new lens (just minor refreshes) in over 2 years.
Thirdly, the A-mount was not traditionally a “pro” system. Changing it into a pro-system would be a massive change, and not an easy shift. It’s like if Chevrolet suddenly decided they will no longer offer affordable cars, and now will only compete with Mercedes.
Fourth, and most important…. very few shooters jump to high level models. Most shooters, including eventual professional shooters, start with entry level models, and grow their lens collection, and eventually upgrade to higher level models. I guarantee you that 90% of A99, 5diii, 1dx, D810, D4s shooters…. started with a much lower level Minolta/Sony/Canon/Nikon camera. So if you don’t support the entry and mid-levels, then there will be no advanced shooters in the future.
All good points Adam, but I am not saying that Sony has arrived there yet, and I am not even saying that it will ever gain serious acceptance by the professional crowd. We are talking about the difference between marketing and reality. Sony has to try to create the impression that it makes cameras which are sought after by professional photgraphers, whether or not that is actually true, in order to have credibility with the masses and get them to be interested in Sony cameras. I think that is their strategy going forward. Whether its a good one is open to question. Your last point is a particularly good one with which I completey agree. Thus, I absolutely do not understand why Sony has embarked on this e-mount romp and frolic. Why split your line and lose people who would otherwise be captured into your a mount universe? Except to offer different lines to high price consumers (i.e., a “pro” line) versus low price consumers, I don’t really get it. But that seems to be the choice they have made and where they are heading as far as strategy goes.
I get what they were doing with E-mount. It’s a good business decision. But they are trying too hard to “have their cake and eat it too.”
It’s like they are doing their best to string out the A-mount, by working on preventing overlap. They won’t give A-mount F4 zooms, and they won’t give E-mount 2.8 zooms. They made the A77ii their $1,000 camera, while the A6000 is their $600-$700 camera. They killed off the A65, so they wouldn’t have 2 $700 cameras competing with each other. They haven’t done any entry or mid level APS-C since the A58, because they don’t want to compete with the A5100 and A6000. They haven’t done a 36mp fullframe A-mount, because they don’t want it to compete with the A7r. They were very very slow in reducing the price of the A99, because they didn’t want it to fall into the same price category as the A7.
Though they are entirely different mounts, the A7 is kinda the A850 replacement.. the A6000 is kinda the A65 replacement.
Of course, as demand for the E-mount continues, as they continue developing and expanding the mount, more overlap is inevitable. E-mount is starting to get lenses that you used to have to go to A-mount for — a Zeiss 85mm, a great 35/1.4 (actually, the A-mount version is horrible). I don’t think many buyers were really taking the A99 seriously as a $2,000 camera in 2015 (had it been $2000 in 2013, it would have been a great deal).
So eventually… Sony won’t be able to have their cake and eat it too. The E-mount will very soon overtake the A-mount in total customer base, in lens availability, etc, etc. It will very soon match the A-mount in 95% of capabilities, if not 99% of capabilities. And Sony will have to decide how much longer to try to create a fiction of 2 harmonious mounts, how much will they force differences. Will they never do native 2.8 lenses, just to drive some customers to A-mount? Will they never do a NX1-like E-mount (dSLR ergonomics), just so you have to go to A-mount for good ergonomics? Or will they eventually say, “ok… E-mount is ready to take over as the sole “Alpha”… and all the old A-mounters can get adapters.”
As soon as you said a sole “Alpha”, that reminded me of rebranding NEX. That was the time when NEX took Sony by surprise. I think the decision was already made back then. We are just coasting now in neutral.
BINGO.. that was a decisive moment for Sony. Up to that point, they really were very different products, not meant to compete with each other. NEX was for point&shooters who wanted better IQ.. A-mount was for more serious photographers. Not necessarily pros — could still be entry level, but serious entry level.
NEX cameras, remember, had horrible P&S style menu systems. They had no professional grade lenses. And early marketing of NEX was basically, “dSLR quality with P&S ease of use.”
Despite all this, more serious photographers were drawn to the NEX for the compactness, and ability to adapt lenses.
So in 2013 — That was the defining year… It is very very obvious that Sony made a big change in plans. No longer was NEX to be “below” A-mount, it was no longer to be a “point and shoot with a big sensor.” NEX was to become a “serious camera” equal to, or above the A-mount in importance. So first, they did 4 things:
1. Changed the branding from NEX to Alpha, to remove the perception that E-mount was below the A-mount.
2. Change the menu system to the more advanced A-mount menu system.
3. Start to develop high end optics for E-mount.
4. Develop full frame E-mount. dSLR enthusiasts were moving to full frame… D600/800/Canon 6D… So to prove that E-mount was indeed to be a camera for enthusiasts…
So in late 2013, they really launched the “new Alpha” — the original A7 and A7r. Shortly thereafter, the A6000. I’m sure this was initially a test. If the A7 fell completely flat, they would have turned their focus back to A-mount. But the A7 quickly proved more popular than the A99. Moving into 2014, the A6000 proved more popular than the A77ii…. The A6000 might just be the most popular “Alpha” camera ever sold!
So 2013 was the year where they made the plan. 2014 was the year that the test of the plan seemed to work — E-mount was now more successfully competing in the marketplace than A-mount ever did. So where do they go from here? That’s really the question. How long do they continue the A-mount for a QUICKLY shrinking customer base? (partially a self-fulfilling prophecy.. the more they neglect A-mount, the faster the customer base shrinks… giving them even less reason to develop for it).
BINGO again. Because of the “surprise” popularity of the e-mount… Sony is in the process of maturing the e-mount system…therefore a-mount is holding off for a moment while they finish the e-mount roadMap.
Once things settle down With e-mount I bet people are going to get rumors about e-mount is dying.
the a99 is hard to say as a professional level product? A camera is just a tool… Worst low light performance… That’s just on paper.
Low Performance is important in my wedding work. My combination of Zeiss and both my a99 bodies does a WONDERFUL JOB delivering professional quality images.
Much greater lens support? They have fast prime and zooms that cover the main areas that pros need… If price is what we’re talking…a working professional would have no concern with the competitive pricing that Sony has for their fast Zeiss and G glass.
Just noticed something big… Price drop on the A99 to $1600. Only seeing that price at Amazon at the moment. But finally, it is fairly priced for what it is.
Not sure if Unique Photo, Inc is a Sony authorized dealer. There are plenty third-party sellers selling less than the msrp. Same goes with other brands
That is just one provided.. Current Price is $1998 with Grip included The one vendor on Amazon is selling the Body for $1598, no grip listed. Same price but no grip. A99MKII is on its way.
Sony may not have forgotten about A-mount, but their customers have definitely forgotten about it 😛
A lot of mixed signals from Sony. Their SLT was always a good system.
….”Was” is the keyword. I still like my A65, but don’t know if i’ll upgrade to A77II or will just wait it out a bit. I think i can squeeze 2 more years out of it. Hopefully by then we’ll have A77III or at least a clear direction into Sony’s future plans with Alpha lineup.
is this the ghost of a-mount leaving its body!
Is it possible if A-mount were to be made mirrorless?
As of now. Not at all. The technology just doesn’t exist.
Well, we dont know. There could be a possibility that the SSMII lenses are actually compatible, and Sony is limiting them on purpose, to finish upgrades, and then suddenly introduce a “new FE camera”, that is able to focus properly through EA3 adapter and a new A-mount that is mirrorless.
We simply dont know at this time. The full capabilities of current tech are unknown and as such a speculation, end users can only see what the firmware allows for, but the state of the A-Mount today stirs up even more wild rumors/thoughts.
The tech isn’t available. Buy an LAEA3 adapter and see how fast your SSM II lenses are on an FE body. Its great for shooting snails in bright sunshine but for anything else the AF is too slow.
A mirrorless A-mount camera is as easy to make as a mirrorless K-mount camera. If Pentax could make the K-01, then Sony can do the same thing. You don’t need special technology to remove the mirror assembly.
Sure, current on-sensor PDAF isn’t quite as good as the best dedicated PDAF modules, but it would still be better than what Pentax gave us.
Yes they did not forget the A mount, yet not any love lately….
i think its pretty clear that sony is not planing to keep A mount alive on the long run, they said that the A7 series success blew their mind.
funny though, i dont see it on the streets of beijing that much as i would guess, but summer is coming, tourists are coming.
nikon and canon clearly missed the train on the mirrorless market, the question is, can they catch up with it again, in canons case, they need to bring a new line of lenses, but make it possible to use the EF line, from day one.